I Wish I Knew How to Quit You - The BYU Sports Thread

[LA Ute]

BYU problems start at the top

“The system is phenomenal,” [Mendenhall] said. “The execution is lacking.”

...

Contrast Mendenhall’s quote with Kyle Whittingham’s assessment when asked about the many passes that Utah’s receivers have dropped this season. Rather than call out individual players, Whittingham stopped short of including everybody but the trainers and equipment managers.

“We got to put the ball in better spots sometimes,” he said. “We’ve got to pass protect better sometimes. We’ve got to call better plays sometimes. It’s a combination of things. We’re not pointing the finger at one guy, any one group. If anywhere, point the finger at me. I’m the guy who’s got to try to get it solved.”

Another Bronco gem:

"At this particular time period, I’m challenging them. It’s time for cleaner execution. It’s time for a collective to raise and rise to the occasion of performance and each player being accountable for doing their job exactly right. Not kind of right, not sometimes right, but exactly right. It is controllable. And that is the solution. If I’m able to capture their hearts around that, it will change. If they think there’s another way, it won’t."

I hope they extend his contract.

[Solon]

BYU will never drop football or athletics altogether. History has shown these types of moves to be massive mistakes made without any kind of foresight.

Everyone wants to write that obituary, but it will never be printed. But what does need to happen for BYU is to be comfortable in its own skin and recognize that 1984 is irrelevant in today's game. Yale claims 27 national championships and three Heisman winners, but I can guarantee they're not raising their bar to unclearable heights like BYU does seemingly every year.

Chicago dropped football in the 1930s and is Division III today. The U of San Francisco dropped football after going undefeated in 1951. Georgetown also dropped in the 1950s. I'm sure money had to do with some of these decisions, but academics was part of it too.

Yale & the Ivy Leaguers consciously scaled back their emphasis on football when it became clear that their academic reputations were suffering. The Ivy League Accord was signed in 1945, and the Ivy League formed over the next decade with specific policies intended to combat big-time football (e.g., no spring practices, no special admission policies for athletes, no postseason).

PS - not at all a disagreement with SCP. Just providing some background.

[U-Ute]

I have a friend living in Fort Collins, and she claims that Colorado college applications are up 20% since MJ legalization. Colorado really has no excuses at this point.

They'll all be too mellow and fat from 2am Gordita runs.

[Ma'ake]

I can see a few things converging to really put pressure on BYU, the program:

- Fan support dwindling under Independence. The fewer fans showing up to watch a team that has failed to be undefeated makes the threshold to do away with football just a bit lower. Not a close call, but it could be a contributing factor if they ever decided to axe football. "We didn't build this stadium to show empty seats to the nation".

- Trying to be a P5 power, but becoming a P5 Washington Generals-type of team in the process. They've scheduled a bunch of games vs PAC teams, and if the talent level continues to separate, becoming a tune-up game for PAC teams would do serious damage.

- Bronco's unique ability to piss off large groups of people under the BYU tent.

- P5 teams paying athletes, which puts more pressure on BYU to match, or get out. They could easily match, but combined with other factors, this could be another point for getting out of the football business.

There's a market for lower tier CFB games, you see the Sun Belt and MAC games throughout the week on ESPNx. BYU could definitely accomplish their goals as a G5, but it's not clear the fans would be OK with that. The burdens of 1984 and Utah/TCU haunt them.

They've had horrendous misfortune with injuries this year, but Bronco's the one who put the bar at 10 wins as being the minimum expectation. He knows, and everyone else knows that the window for BYU to be make it safely onto the P5 train is closing, that's why everyone has been saying "Just Win, and then we'll be irresistible to the Big-12, and who knows, maybe even the PAC!".

Now they're having all kinds of ex-players come on the radio and give their opinions about what is wrong in Provo.

Suffice it to say this ain't the way the audition was supposed to go.

[Mormon Red Death]

I can see a few things converging to really put pressure on BYU, the program:

- Fan support dwindling under Independence. The fewer fans showing up to watch a team that has failed to be undefeated makes the threshold to do away with football just a bit lower. Not a close call, but it could be a contributing factor if they ever decided to axe football. "We didn't build this stadium to show empty seats to the nation".

- Trying to be a P5 power, but becoming a P5 Washington Generals-type of team in the process. They've scheduled a bunch of games vs PAC teams, and if the talent level continues to separate, becoming a tune-up game for PAC teams would do serious damage.

- Bronco's unique ability to piss off large groups of people under the BYU tent.

- P5 teams paying athletes, which puts more pressure on BYU to match, or get out. They could easily match, but combined with other factors, this could be another point for getting out of the football business.

There's a market for lower tier CFB games, you see the Sun Belt and MAC games throughout the week on ESPNx. BYU could definitely accomplish their goals as a G5, but it's not clear the fans would be OK with that. The burdens of 1984 and Utah/TCU haunt them.

They've had horrendous misfortune with injuries this year, but Bronco's the one who put the bar at 10 wins as being the minimum expectation. He knows, and everyone else knows that the window for BYU to be make it safely onto the P5 train is closing, that's why everyone has been saying "Just Win, and then we'll be irresistible to the Big-12, and who knows, maybe even the PAC!".

Now they're having all kinds of ex-players come on the radio and give their opinions about what is wrong in Provo.

Suffice it to say this ain't the way the audition was supposed to go.

They already play 6 games a year on Thursday or Friday.

[U-Ute]

BYU problems start at the top



Another Bronco gem:



I hope they extend his contract.

"It's not me, it's you."

[SoCalPat]

Chicago dropped football in the 1930s and is Division III today. The U of San Francisco dropped football after going undefeated in 1951. Georgetown also dropped in the 1950s. I'm sure money had to do with some of these decisions, but academics was part of it too.

Yale & the Ivy Leaguers consciously scaled back their emphasis on football when it became clear that their academic reputations were suffering. The Ivy League Accord was signed in 1945, and the Ivy League formed over the next decade with specific policies intended to combat big-time football (e.g., no spring practices, no special admission policies for athletes, no postseason).

PS - not at all a disagreement with SCP. Just providing some background.

You missed the biggest one of all -- Tulane exiting the SEC voluntarily in 1966. It was a compromise to academics, but not full-on elimination of the sport. Relates well to what BYU did. Here's a good story on it:

http://www.tulanegreenwave.com/genrel/102702aac.html

[U-Ute]

Two words: Derek Stevenson



You can find it on this page, under "Interviews", if you want to bookmark it for later.

http://www.1320kfan.com/page.php?page_id=713

[LA Ute]

Two words: Derek Stevenson



You can find it on this page, under "Interviews", if you want to bookmark it for later.

http://www.1320kfan.com/page.php?page_id=713

Pure gold.

[EutawStUtesFan]

Two words: Derek Stevenson



You can find it on this page, under "Interviews", if you want to bookmark it for later.

http://www.1320kfan.com/page.php?page_id=713

I've never understood the fascination Ute fans have with this guy.

[LA Ute]

I've never understood the fascination Ute fans have with this guy.

He embodies the died-in-the-wool BYU fan who simply cannot abide Bronco saying football is fifth.

[Scorcho]

Two words: Derek Stevenson



You can find it on this page, under "Interviews", if you want to bookmark it for later.

http://www.1320kfan.com/page.php?page_id=713

that is so bad, it's good.

How embarrassing for him ..... one day, possibly, maybe.

[LA Ute]

http://lawlessrepublic.com/2014/10/2...layer-opinion/

Can't someone start a site for us, called pleasedontfirebronco.com?

[U-Ute]

http://lawlessrepublic.com/2014/10/2...layer-opinion/

Can't someone start a site for us, called pleasedontfirebronco.com?

Dumpster-Fire.jpg

[Ma'ake]

I'm headed down to Tempe, but a quick diversion on the BYU dumpster fire status:

The dumpster fire rages on, it's melted the vinyl decorative fence around it, the 2x4s that keep it from rolling away are charcoal, and the dumpster is headed down the street toward Tom Holmoe's house.

- Evidently Brian Logan (their DB of a few years ago) is picking Middle Tennessee, 42-21

- According to "Monte", a local Utah radio guy, Tom Holmoe held a meeting with the players, and re-iterated his support for Bronco, to which some players expressed great disappointment and a desire to quit football.

- Tom Holmoe (who I don't really have anything against - I think he's a decent guy) is a SF Giants fan, it appears, and tweeted out about the World Series:

TH: "Last name Ever, first name Greatest - Madison Bumgarner!" (the Giants great pitcher)

Random Fan: "Hey Tom, maybe you should be working on your football team"

TH: "I see you're a Dodgers fan, so I understand your anger"

Fan: "I'm also a BYU football fan, so now you understand my anger even better!"

As Bill Cosby would advise, Tom... Tom... Tom... don't lean into the punches!

[sancho]

I want to take a moment out of my Stanford victory celebration to congratulate BYU on becoming bowl eligible. Must taste sweet to prove all those doubters wrong.

[Ma'ake]

This has been one hell of a season, especially for Ute fans who've been around long enough to remember how utterly frustrating and demeaning it was in the bad old days.

Not playing BYU this year or next is not just a well-timed break in the rivalry, it gives both fan bases a chance to re-evaluate, a lot of things.

We're now in a position in this rivalry we previously resented deeply, when the shoe was on the other foot. And it's not just a reversal of fortunes, it's two teams finding what are (increasingly clear) different levels in the CFB landscape.

Things are changing before our eyes. We're going to have opportunities to be unlike who we resented, previously.

Look at this post: http://www.cougarboard.com/board/mes...ml?id=13296731

The Utah tent is getting bigger. I've completely understood Chris Hill's reluctance on stadium expansion. I don't think he ever really considered the need for a bigger tent, from folks we never guessed would be interested in joining.

The P5 / G5 separation gives these people some cover to give us some support. Not playing them next year gives them more cover.

How many people go to Colorado Rockies games for no other reason than it's the major leagues?

Guess what? We're the ML CFB franchise in Utah, with a couple of interesting AAA teams also in the market. The sands in the hourglass are shifting.

[LA Ute]

This has been one hell of a season, especially for Ute fans who've been around long enough to remember how utterly frustrating and demeaning it was in the bad old days.

Not playing BYU this year or next is not just a well-timed break in the rivalry, it gives both fan bases a chance to re-evaluate, a lot of things.

We're now in a position in this rivalry we previously resented deeply, when the shoe was on the other foot. And it's not just a reversal of fortunes, it's two teams finding what are (increasingly clear) different levels in the CFB landscape.

Things are changing before our eyes. We're going to have opportunities to be unlike who we resented, previously.

Look at this post: http://www.cougarboard.com/board/mes...ml?id=13296731

The Utah tent is getting bigger. I've completely understood Chris Hill's reluctance on stadium expansion. I don't think he ever really considered the need for a bigger tent, from folks we never guessed would be interested in joining.

The P5 / G5 separation gives these people some cover to give us some support. Not playing them next year gives them more cover.

How many people go to Colorado Rockies games for no other reason than it's the major leagues?

Guess what? We're the ML CFB franchise in Utah, with a couple of interesting AAA teams also in the market. The sands in the hourglass are shifting.

Your link enticed me to go to that board. What a place. The poster was excoriated for treating Utah's win over Stanford as comparable in importance to BYU's win over Texas. Wow.

[utefan]

Your link enticed me to go to that board. What a place. The poster was excoriated for treating Utah's win over Stanford as comparable in importance to BYU's win over Texas. Wow.

As he should have been. They weren't even close to comparable in importance.

Stanford may have the best defense in the nation. Going against our banged up offense. Stanford had never lost 2 in a row under this coach, and they lost their previous game. Stanford was coming off a bye week, while Utah played the same team that beat Stanford in their last game. Stanford had this game circled on their calendar all year, after Utah ended their national championship hopes last year. A Stanford win would have clinched bowl eligibility and put them in position for a better bowl game. The Utah win keeps them alive for the Pac 12 championship, and puts Utah in position for a better bowl game.

That BYU/Texas game had almost none of that. The importance of that Stanford/Utah game was absolutely not comparable to the BYU win over Texas.

I don't plan to visit the link and read through it all, but I'm guessing the poster that was chastised for saying it was comparable was probably done so because those delusional idiots think the BYU win over Texas was bigger.

[LA Ute]

I don't plan to visit the link and read through it all, but I'm guessing the poster that was chastised for dating or was comparable was probably done so because those delusional idiots think the BYU win over Texas was bigger.

Yep!

[sancho]

As he should have been. They weren't even close to comparable in importance.

I think they are comparable. They were both road wins against so-so teams. Texas was in disarray due to suspensions and injuries, but Stanford is a mess offensively too. It was big for BYU since without that win, they would be pointing to - what? UVa? Houston? - as their best win of the year.

The interesting thing is that BYU and Utah have back-to-back wins against Texas and Stanford, respectively. Out of those four wins, there is no question that Utah over Stanford last year is the best by miles.

[LA Ute]

I think they are comparable. They were both road wins against so-so teams. Texas was in disarray due to suspensions and injuries, but Stanford is a mess offensively too. It was big for BYU since without that win, they would be pointing to - what? UVa? Houston? - as their best win of the year.

The interesting thing is that BYU and Utah have back-to-back wins against Texas and Stanford, respectively. Out of those four wins, there is no question that Utah over Stanford last year is the best by miles.

The CB guy was saying that the BYU 2014 win over Texas far outstrips the Utes' 2014 Stanford win, and that it's ridiculous even to compare them.

[SoCalPat]

As he should have been. They weren't even close to comparable in importance.

Stanford may have the best defense in the nation. Going against our banged up offense. Stanford had never lost 2 in a row under this coach, and they lost their previous game. Stanford was coming off a bye week, while Utah played the same team that beat Stanford in their last game. Stanford had this game circled on their calendar all year, after Utah ended their national championship hopes last year. A Stanford win would have clinched bowl eligibility and put them in position for a better bowl game. The Utah win keeps them alive for the Pac 12 championship, and puts Utah in position for a better bowl game.

That BYU/Texas game had almost none of that. The importance of that Stanford/Utah game was absolutely not comparable to the BYU win over Texas.

I don't plan to visit the link and read through it all, but I'm guessing the poster that was chastised for saying it was comparable was probably done so because those delusional idiots think the BYU win over Texas was bigger.

All you needed to say was conference games in November always trump non-conference games in September.

Texas' defense is miles better, which underscores how valuable Taysom Hill is, and how lousy his supporting cast is. Watch Texas put the coup de grace on TCU's title hopes in two weeks.

[utefan]

I think they are comparable. They were both road wins against so-so teams. Texas was in disarray due to suspensions and injuries, but Stanford is a mess offensively too. It was big for BYU since without that win, they would be pointing to - what? UVa? Houston? - as their best win of the year.

The interesting thing is that BYU and Utah have back-to-back wins against Texas and Stanford, respectively. Out of those four wins, there is no question that Utah over Stanford last year is the best by miles.

I don't think they're comparable at all.

BYU/Texas is comparable to Utah/Michigan. I don't see how anyone can disagree with that. And I don't see how anyone can say that win at Michigan was as important as that win at Stanford.

No comparison.

[LA Ute]

I don't think they're comparable at all.

BYU/Texas is comparable to Utah/Michigan. I don't see how anyone can disagree with that. And I don't see how anyone can say that win at Michigan was as important as that win at Stanford.

No comparison.

It's ridiculous. The BYU does not have a single victory in 2014 that even belongs in the same discussion as our UCLA, USC and Stanford wins.

[sancho]

It's ridiculous. The BYU does not have a single victory in 2014 that even belongs in the same discussion as our UCLA, USC and Stanford wins.

Sagarin has Texas at 37 and Stanford at 31. That's the same ballpark. Sure, it wasn't a conference win, and it didn't change their bowl prospects either way, but can you imagine this BYU season without the Texas win? Firing Bronco might have been a real possibility. I think it's plenty big enough to be mentioned with Stanford. Stanford is 5-0 vs unranked teams and 0-5 vs ranked teams. They are Utah from last year, losing a bunch of close games with a good defense and no offense.

[Applejack]

Sagarin has Texas at 37 and Stanford at 31. That's the same ballpark. Sure, it wasn't a conference win, and it didn't change their bowl prospects either way, but can you imagine this BYU season without the Texas win? Firing Bronco might have been a real possibility. I think it's plenty big enough to be mentioned with Stanford. Stanford is 5-0 vs unranked teams and 0-5 vs ranked teams. They are Utah from last year, losing a bunch of close games with a good defense and no offense.

I agree. Texas and Stanford are reasonably similar wins. The circumstances may have been different (wasn't Texas without its starting QB and Offensive tackles?), but neither team is lighting the world on fire.

Our UCLA and USC wins are the crown jewels on this illustrious season.

[LA Ute]

Sagarin has Texas at 37 and Stanford at 31. That's the same ballpark. Sure, it wasn't a conference win, and it didn't change their bowl prospects either way, but can you imagine this BYU season without the Texas win? Firing Bronco might have been a real possibility. I think it's plenty big enough to be mentioned with Stanford. Stanford is 5-0 vs unranked teams and 0-5 vs ranked teams. They are Utah from last year, losing a bunch of close games with a good defense and no offense.

You and I are on the same page. The BYU fan I was mocking (in a loving manner) was saying that the two wins are not even in the same ballpark, that Texas was a fantastic win and Stanford was a ho-hum win.

[utefan]

Sagarin has Texas at 37 and Stanford at 31. That's the same ballpark. Sure, it wasn't a conference win, and it didn't change their bowl prospects either way, but can you imagine this BYU season without the Texas win? Firing Bronco might have been a real possibility. I think it's plenty big enough to be mentioned with Stanford. Stanford is 5-0 vs unranked teams and 0-5 vs ranked teams. They are Utah from last year, losing a bunch of close games with a good defense and no offense.

I disagree.

I think Stanford blows Texas out if they play, but that doesn't matter. What matters is, that was a very important game for both Utah and Stanford. It kept Utah alive for the division title and Stanford was playing for a better bowl game.

That Texas/BYU game was meaningless for both teams. Texas had a new coach, and they were missing half the team. The game meant nothing in terms of conference placement or bowl games.

Fire Bronco? Come on now. Do you really think it makes a huge difference if BYU wins 6 games and goes to a bowl game, or if they win 7 games and go to the same bowl game? Certainly not enough of a difference to fire the coach.

That game was close to meaningless. About on par with that Utah/Michigan game.

[LA Ute]

Explaining the drop in attendance for BYU football

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=32399516&nid=

Here's a preview of the reasons suggested:

• Weather -- Oh, come on.
• Lackluster opponents -- Duh.
• Bowl contracts -- once they lost to USU they were doomed to that Miami bowl.
• ESPN -- people stay home to watch on TV. Really?