Page 2 of 112 FirstFirst 1234561252102 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 60 of 3352

Thread: I Wish I Knew How to Quit You - The BYU Sports Thread

  1. #31
    Malleus Cougarorum Solon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Lost in the Flood.
    Posts
    1,269
    Quote Originally Posted by Two Utes View Post
    And the last thing I'll say about this: I've heard 100 times the old saying "it's not the church it's the people in the church" In this instance, it's the church.
    I agree with this. It's another case of the byu and the church that runs it trying to strike a balance between competitiveness in the world, and standing apart as a spiritual institution. We see it elsewhere as the byu tries to be both a university (with all the humanistic secular baggage that brings) as well as a flagship for promoting LDS values.

    To some extent, I believe the leadership has made its decision to be a stand-apart institution: emphasizing spiritual growth over W-L records, or the accolades of the Academy. In a way, this is commendable. On the other hand, the mission has not been clearly enough articulated from the top to help the fans, members, and academic community understand what the overall vision and mission are. As in so many other areas, the LDS church seems to be trying to take both forks in the road for as long as it possibly can, although it ultimately has chosen morals & merits over Wins - Losses & Academic Freedom.

    A pretty sharp rabbi once said something about not being able to serve both God & Mammon, but I think his exact comments were correlated by a team of lawyers and PR officers.
    σοφῷ ἀνδρὶ Ἑλλὰς πάντα.
    -- Flavius Philostratus, Life of Apollonius 1.35.2.

  2. #32
    Look, I am active LDS and I recognize that from an LDS perspective BYU does many wonderful things for my church and for many people.
    I think you overstate the value of the place. If it were to close tomorrow, neither the Church, the gospel, nor the plan would suffer all that much.

    cheer for a university I am proud of, without all that religious baggage.
    Religious baggage is a heavy load. Can't image trying to tote it around all over my sports fandom.

    I don't believe that Church leaders consider football important to the church's mission. Most Church leaders I know are too smart for that. I'm sure some like it as fans. Some are surely bothered by the distraction of it all. Most probably figure that it's more important to the mission of the university than to the mission of the Church.
    Last edited by sancho; 08-22-2013 at 07:56 PM.

  3. #33
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Los Angeles, California
    Posts
    16,395
    Quote Originally Posted by Solon View Post
    To some extent, I believe the leadership has made its decision to be a stand-apart institution: emphasizing spiritual growth over W-L records, or the accolades of the Academy. In a way, this is commendable. On the other hand, the mission has not been clearly enough articulated from the top to help the fans, members, and academic community understand what the overall vision and mission are. As in so many other areas, the LDS church seems to be trying to take both forks in the road for as long as it possibly can, although it ultimately has chosen morals & merits over Wins - Losses & Academic Freedom.
    I really don't think the Q12 and the FP place any importance on BYU winning championships. I do wonder why they haven't made that more clear. Comments like Jeff Holland's below make me think they are edging towards being more open about it. For example, here's Dieter Uchtdorf in General Conference, 2010:

    Perhaps there is no better laboratory to observe the sin of pride than the world of sports. I have always loved participating in and attending sporting events. But I confess there are times when the lack of civility in sports is embarrassing. How is it that normally kind and compassionate human beings can be so intolerant and filled with hatred toward an opposing team and its fans?

    I have watched sports fans vilify and demonize their rivals. They look for any flaw and magnify it. They justify their hatred with broad generalizations and apply them to everyone associated with the other team. When ill fortune afflicts their rival, they rejoice.
    Something tells me he is not talking about Manchester United fans. Less than a year after that General Conference talk, he did show up at RES with Jamie Whittingham, after all. Coincidence? I think not!

    *UchtdorfJamie2.jpg

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  4. #34
    Malleus Cougarorum Solon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Lost in the Flood.
    Posts
    1,269
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I really don't think the Q12 and the FP place any importance on BYU winning championships. I do wonder why they haven't made that more clear. Comments like Jeff Holland's below make me think they are edging towards being more open about it.
    I totally agree. It's just not that important in the big scheme of things.
    As an educator, I would love to see more schools leaving behind the arms-race of college athletics. At the very least, I would like to see those dollars go to participation over competition. Millions of dollars are spent on a relatively tiny portion of the student-body. The justification arguments are dicey at best (they bring school pride, etc.). Most programs lose money, esp. at the non-BCS level.

    It's refreshing to see a university de-emphasizing sports. On the other hand, they have a $50 billion HD truck. It's a mixed message at best.

    Great photo.
    σοφῷ ἀνδρὶ Ἑλλὰς πάντα.
    -- Flavius Philostratus, Life of Apollonius 1.35.2.

  5. #35
    I can't quit on byu because stuff like this is so awesome and makes me laugh!

    This is my rivalry so that makes it the best. I can't give it up and I won't because it is too much fun!


  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post

    Religious baggage is a heavy load. Can't image trying to tote it around all over my sports fandom.
    You're mistaken if you think that religious baggage is not carried by ute fans (LDS or not). Last time I was in the Rose Bowl (the place, not the event) watching Utah vs. UCLA, did I not hear "Go back to Provo" chants? Did I not hear mormon jokes?
    Last edited by Katy Lied; 08-23-2013 at 07:56 AM.

  7. #37
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Los Angeles, California
    Posts
    16,395
    Quote Originally Posted by Katy Lied View Post
    You're mistaken if you think that religious baggage is not carried by ute fans (LDS or not). Last time I was in the Rose Bowl (the place, not the event) watching Utah vs. UCLA, did I not hear "Go back to Provo" chants? Did I not hear mormon jokes?
    We do get that. I heard a Mormon crack from UCLA fans (young, probably a bit drunk) after the 2005 game at the Rose Bowl. I think it was about Joseph Smith. I didn't hear anything at last fall's game. I think it is there but at a vastly lower level than it is for BYU, sort of a lingering provincial bias on the part of the uninformed. Over time people will figure out the distinction between the two universities. I hope.

    EDIT: By "religious baggage" I was referring to the way a fan perceives his/her own team (e.g., many BYU fans' schizophrenia) and the way the program is run (e.g., Bronco, the Honor Code, the BOT).
    Last edited by LA Ute; 08-23-2013 at 09:47 AM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Katy Lied View Post
    You're mistaken if you think that religious baggage is not carried by ute fans (LDS or not). Last time I was in the Rose Bowl (the place, not the event) watching Utah vs. UCLA, did I not hear "Go back to Provo" chants? Did I not hear mormon jokes?
    True, I guess I meant self-inflicted baggage. The baggage of believing that God is pulling for your team. That kind of stuff. Believing that the success of the team is essential (or even related) to the success of your faith. Believing that your team does things on a higher spiritual plane. The burden of being heckled is small relative to the burden of carrying around false ideas.

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    This statement by Jeffrey Holland, a former BYU president and current LDS Apostle, is interesting by itself, but the responses from BYU fans are even more interesting. This is from a CES fireside talk he gave from the Dixie College campus:



    I saw lots of BYU fans, on two message boards, say Elder Holland is wrong. That phenomenon points up the schizophrenia among many BYU fans: on the one hand, they think their team has special status in God's eyes, and yet they don't have to adjust their behavior or their expectations of their teams. It's very interesting.

    Look, I am active LDS and I recognize that from an LDS perspective BYU does many wonderful things for my church and for many people. My dad is a BYU grad and so are my brother and a a bunch of extended family, as well as many of my very close friends. But BYU sports are not the church. In fact, I am convinced that all BYU's Board of Trustees want out of BYU sports is that they reflect well on the church -- not that they produce national championships. If BYU were like the military service academies -- tough teams that stand for something honorable, but don't win big bowl games or NCs or even have winning seasons every year -- I think the Board would be happy.

    But the fan base ties the athletic teams to the church's mission and a lot of bad things come from that. At the same time, many in the fan base don't want to be called out on any bad behavior. It's a weird dynamic. I am glad to be a Utah fan and just to cheer for a university I am proud of, without all that religious baggage.
    I was at this game. BYU v Oklahoma State in 2004. daniel bobbick. A friend invited me to come and I went and of course cheered for the cowboys. I don't want to stand up on my high horse and condemn these people, but at the same time, what Elder Holland said was accurate. The vitriol and filth that was spewed was incredible to me. And as he pointed out; this was an active LDS kid who did everything right and left because he wanted more playing time.

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahsMrSports View Post
    I was at this game. BYU v Oklahoma State in 2004. daniel bobbick. A friend invited me to come and I went and of course cheered for the cowboys. I don't want to stand up on my high horse and condemn these people, but at the same time, what Elder Holland said was accurate. The vitriol and filth that was spewed was incredible to me. And as he pointed out; this was an active LDS kid who did everything right and left because he wanted more playing time.
    I was wondering who that was. I don't remember Bobbick. I initially thought Holland was talking about Trent Whiting. Once he referenced a game at the Delta Center where BYU and Utah have not played in a very long time. I figured it was somebody else but didn't know who.
    Last edited by FountainOfUte; 08-23-2013 at 09:42 AM.

  11. #41
    Too bad he said it in St. George at Dixie College (weird) and not at the BYU.

  12. #42
    Just wanted to say that Nate Cooper can die of gonorrhea and roast in hell.

    Happy Friday, brothers!

  13. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Two Utes View Post
    And the last thing I'll say about this: I've heard 100 times the old saying "it's not the church it's the people in the church" In this instance, it's the church.
    This entire thread is embarassing. Utes and cougars are cut from the same cloth. The more you mock the zoobs of the BYU fan base the more you solidify your utter zootness. The more you try to tie Bronco's quirkiness to being a precondition of the LDS churches mandate for the football team at BYU the more your reveal your own irrational insecurities.

    Both fan bases are naive and rediculous. The media in Utah only exacerbates the problem. Typically, at this time of year I tune in to Utah radio via the Web to feed a deeply ingrained football fetish I just can't quit. I can't do it this year due to the collective idiocy I tuned into last year. To hear them talk Utah was the new Alabama. At least those that covered BYU were realistic about their place in the football universe ... Well, kinda sorta.

    Sorry Senioritis but getting giddy about what channel your team plays on is akin to zoots raving about being the kids who got invited to the junior prom but only because the socal schools needed a sucker to help pay for the limo. By the way I would've loved to watch Utah on tv last year, at least once ... I won't hold my breath waiting this season.

    Two Utes, I love you like a brother cause well, we are brothers. But your comments above make you sound like a dip shit. Bronco is just wired that way.

    Utah is the new Arizona. Brad Rock stole my line.
    Last edited by tooblue; 08-23-2013 at 07:59 PM.

  14. #44
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Los Angeles, California
    Posts
    16,395
    We're just having fun, tooblue. The pathology of this rivalry is complex and fascinating and we are trying to make sense of it.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  15. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    We're just having fun, tooblue. The pathology of this rivalry is complex and fascinating and we are trying to make sense of it.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
    It's all fun and games until some one gets their eye poked out. :-)

  16. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by tooblue View Post
    It's all fun and games until some one gets their eye poked out. :-)

    That is why there are doctors around.
    “Man cannot discover new oceans unless he has the courage to lose sight of the shore.”
    André Gide

  17. #47
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Los Angeles, California
    Posts
    16,395
    Now this is what we're talking about:

    Commentary: BYU and Utah football programs aren't all that different

    http://m.deseretnews.com/article/865...different.html

    It is inconceivable that such a piece would ever appear in the LA Times about USC and UCLA, or in the San Francisco Chronicle about Stanford and Cal, or...pick a rivalry.

    Like I said, it's a pathology.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  18. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by tooblue View Post
    The more you mock the zoobs of the BYU fan base the more you solidify your utter zootness.
    What does it mean if I completely ignore them, or say nice things about Bronco?
    "It'd be nice to please everyone but I thought it would be more interesting to have a point of view." -- Oscar Levant

  19. #49
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Los Angeles, California
    Posts
    16,395
    Quote Originally Posted by USS Utah View Post
    What does it mean if I completely ignore them, or say nice things about Bronco?
    I think it means you have a healthy attitude. I personally think Bronco's just a guy trying his best to do a difficult job the way he's been asked to do it.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  20. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I think it means you have a healthy attitude. I personally think Bronco's just a guy trying his best to do a difficult job the way he's been asked to do it.
    I disagree. At the very least, he's a weird guy.

  21. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by tooblue View Post
    This entire thread is embarassing. Utes and cougars are cut from the same cloth. The more you mock the zoobs of the BYU fan base the more you solidify your utter zootness. The more you try to tie Bronco's quirkiness to being a precondition of the LDS churches mandate for the football team at BYU the more your reveal your own irrational insecurities.

    Both fan bases are naive and rediculous. The media in Utah only exacerbates the problem. Typically, at this time of year I tune in to Utah radio via the Web to feed a deeply ingrained football fetish I just can't quit. I can't do it this year due to the collective idiocy I tuned into last year. To hear them talk Utah was the new Alabama. At least those that covered BYU were realistic about their place in the football universe ... Well, kinda sorta.

    Sorry Senioritis but getting giddy about what channel your team plays on is akin to zoots raving about being the kids who got invited to the junior prom but only because the socal schools needed a sucker to help pay for the limo. By the way I would've loved to watch Utah on tv last year, at least once ... I won't hold my breath waiting this season.

    Two Utes, I love you like a brother cause well, we are brothers. But your comments above make you sound like a dip shit. Bronco is just wired that way.

    Utah is the new Arizona. Brad Rock stole my line.
    Well you are in Canada. I watched every game in hd last year from Michigan.

    We are sorry you guys are not part of one of the bigger more important conferences. If you have to think we only got invited because they "needed help to pay the limo" to help you sleep thats fine.

    Hey you guys would have been in the big 12 if it wasn't for the governor who hates Mormons. Heck you guys would be in right now if it wasn't That being independent was so much better.

    There does that help?

    Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
    "Be a philosopher. A man can compromise to gain a point. It has become apparent that a man can, within limits, follow his inclinations within the arms of the Church if he does so discreetly." - The Walking Drum

    "And here’s what life comes down to—not how many years you live, but how many of those years are filled with bullshit that doesn’t amount to anything to satisfy the requirements of some dickhead you’ll never get the pleasure of punching in the face." – Adam Carolla

  22. #52
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Los Angeles, California
    Posts
    16,395
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    I disagree. At the very least, he's a weird guy.
    A fair characterization, but a little harsh. The kind of guy who's willing to do what Bronco's been asked to do is always going to be a little dorky. I don't think he's a bad guy, although I do wonder about the head shots BYU players take. He could stop that. Why doesn't he?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  23. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by tooblue View Post
    This entire thread is embarassing. Utes and cougars are cut from the same cloth.
    Yes. Except you guys were cut with a broken, one-handled pair of safety scissors.

  24. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormon Red Death View Post
    Well you are in Canada. I watched every game in hd last year from Michigan.

    We are sorry you guys are not part of one of the bigger more important conferences. If you have to think we only got invited because they "needed help to pay the limo" to help you sleep thats fine.

    Hey you guys would have been in the big 12 if it wasn't for the governor who hates Mormons. Heck you guys would be in right now if it wasn't That being independent was so much better.

    There does that help?

    Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
    I guess I need to remind you that technically my "grey market" satellite dish is located at your house in Michigan. We watch Amercan programming in the tooblue home. What channel were the Ute games on again?

    Wooooo HD Internet streaming is the bomb ... Well, not quite yet. Of course what has helping to pay for the limo gotten you? I never had to wonder where to find the BYU game last year. Hades, I could've seen every BYU game via Canadian programming last season!

    I'm beginning to wonder if Utah really is the new Arizona. Maybe more like the new Washington State.

    Lol ... Whatever helps you sleep at night bucko.

  25. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by jrj84105 View Post
    Yes. Except you guys were cut with a broken, one-handled pair of safety scissors.
    Yup. Rough hewn, tough and comfortable in our own skin. Sounds about right.

  26. #56
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Los Angeles, California
    Posts
    16,395

    I Wish I Knew How to Quit You - The BYU Sports Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by tooblue View Post
    I'm beginning to wonder if Utah really is the new Arizona. Maybe more like the new Washington State.
    Hey, you tried that "Utah will be Washington State" smack way back when Utah first got into the PAC-12. You can't switch to "Utah will be Arizona" and then switch back to the WSU line. It's a violation of Rule 93.20zx. If you want your grey market collusion with Utah fans to continue without interruption you're going to have to shape up.

    Fortunately for you, we do not report first offenses here.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
    Last edited by LA Ute; 08-24-2013 at 03:26 PM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  27. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by tooblue View Post
    and comfortable in our own skin. .
    Ok this may be the funniest thing I have seen posted about Y fans.
    “Man cannot discover new oceans unless he has the courage to lose sight of the shore.”
    André Gide

  28. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    A fair characterization, but a little harsh.
    You are right. Weird is not the right word. He's always saying things about how BYU is the only place where spirituality can be nurtured. He either believes this, in which case he's got a distorted view of things, or he feels like this is his best angle with recruits, in which case he's something of a liar.

    The kind of guy who's willing to do what Bronco's been asked to do is always going to be a little dorky.
    I don't know. Plenty of other people have done it without being at all like Bronco.

  29. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Jarid in Cedar View Post
    Ok this may be the funniest thing I have seen posted about Y fans.
    I thought it was funny too but hey, since I am a Y fan and we are incredibly resourceful I just rolled with it ... You can blame your Ute comrad for the poor metaphor in the first place.

  30. #60
    image.jpg
    And I thought it was the Yahoo logo all this time.
    Last edited by jrj84105; 08-24-2013 at 05:20 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •