The Pervalanche Thread (including the Jeff Epstein debacle)

[Ma'ake]

This made me laugh.

I've got some breaking news. There are a lot of men who hit on women they work with.

However, we are getting to the point of saturation where there are so many reports of alleged harassment that they dilute the pool, so to speak, and the real bad actors (the Weinsteins, Spaceys etc.) are forgotten and/or glossed over. We always do this in America. The pendulum swings and just keeps swinging.

As a lawyer, my two simple pieces of advice to all men is don't shit where you eat and even though it appears she isn't offended by your comments, years later, she will be very offended.

There's another aspect to all this: *Some* women, *some* times, take being "hit on" as a type of compliment (depending on who it's coming from). I've heard women compare notes on "hit on" interactions in situations where I witnessed it, and the dude was just being friendly, in a completely inert way. Often the underlying tone seems to be "I'm desirable, too!"

I suspect that being "hit on" often takes on different meaning over the years for different women... the same interaction having different meanings, over time, or within the same month.

Attitudes about male-female interactions vary widely by culture. Where many of my European colleagues make no assumptions and get along on an equality basis, it seems many east Asian cultures have very strict "rules of engagement", there are a few colleagues who make zero eye contact (seemingly with anyone), kind of like a "virtual burqa".

I've tried to be an ambassador for American style gender equality, ie, friendly with zero other untoward overtones. It's actually nice to be able to "break through" and just be friends, be equals, as we all have a lot to learn from each other. The rash of stories in the news makes that less likely.

[sancho]

In the current environment, no eye contact seems like the safe route.

No, then they will assume you were looking at their chest.

[U-Ute]

There's another aspect to all this: *Some* women, *some* times, take being "hit on" as a type of compliment (depending on who it's coming from). I've heard women compare notes on "hit on" interactions in situations where I witnessed it, and the dude was just being friendly, in a completely inert way. Often the underlying tone seems to be "I'm desirable, too!"

I tend to be friendly, and talkative, and have learned *some* women from *some* other cultures can take that as an aggressive interaction.

I've tied to show how in the US, many guys genuinely respect women, not as sexual objects, but as peers, as colleagues whom have valuable input, with no other agenda involved. (Needless to say, I'm backing off that angle - the marketing on men supporting feminism isn't very good, right now.) Some foreign women walk down the hall with blinders on, no eye contact, their eyes don't deviate from the direct path ahead, essentially no eye movement. Basically a "virtual burqa". I'm extremely cautious not to leer, or anything like that. In the current environment, no eye contact seems like the safe route.

I suspect that being "hit on" often takes on different meaning over the years for different women... the same interaction having different meanings, over time.

My wife has been saying the same thing. There is a slippery slope her to be wary of where you can get to a point where a wink could be misconstrued as being over the line.

[U-Ute]

My wife has been saying the same thing. There is a slippery slope her to be wary of where you can get to a point where a wink could be misconstrued as being over the line.

And if that happens, then it muddies the waters for those who are actually and severely harassed and/or attacked.

[Ma'ake]

And if that happens, then it muddies the waters for those who are actually and severely harassed and/or attacked.

And there's a very predictable backlash to all this: male managers, wary of getting entangled in real/perceived/accused sexual harassment issues (for themselves and subordinates), look for ways to avoid these issues altogether, at hiring time. More of an issue in male dominated fields like IT, granted. (I'm a long way from being that wary, personally, but suffice it to say things don't happen in a vacuum.)