Southwest is what it is, basically a flying bus service. I use Southwest all the time to get around California and the West for short flights up to 90 minutes or so. They're not perfect. But it is unimaginable that any Southwest employee would do what the United airlines folks did in yesterday's incident.Originally Posted by Diehard Ute
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
I must not be a very good person because I have zero sympathy for this guy. Could United have handled it better? Absolutely, but they didn't really have that many options and I don't think that the way they chose to handle it was all that bad anyway.
Amen Scratch. I'll take it further. So, because he doesn't want to be inconvenienced in any way, he inconveniences all of the people on the plane who now have to get back off the plane and wait around for 3 hours. He also inconveniences all of the flyers in Louisville who need a crew that needed to get on that flight. All because he refuses to take a later flight. Then, when asked to leave he acts like a goddamned two year old and screams and holds on to his chair.
Imagine if every passenger acted like him. The airports would come to a stand still.
Every one of us has had to eat a shit sandwich on occasion while flying. I did it last week in Atlanta when my flight got cancelled. This guy is complete fucking turd.
United should have never let him on the plane in the first place and should have run its lottery before anybody got on. But it makes me sick to watch America feel sorry for this clown. When he was asked to get off, he should have gotten off. Every person on this site would have grumbled and then left the plane (just like the other passengers who were asked to leave, did). Because we are human beings.
The reality is, too many people are flying. Airlines overbook to make money which in turns keeps flight costs down. If we regulated this stuff, prices would go up. I'd still fly but many of the John Does who feel sorry for this guy would be priced out of flying.
Of course, today, we now learn that the docs is a convicted felon. How can you be surprised by this given his conduct?
Last edited by Two Utes; 04-11-2017 at 10:22 AM.
I couldn't agree with two utes any more. Passenger got everything he deserved.
Investors don't agree with you ... 1.4 billion dollar stock drop:
http://fortune.com/2017/04/11/united...es-stock-drop/
And now, United Airlines doesn't agree:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.64399f9c1f33
There is plenty of blame and punishment to go around.Investors don't agree with you ... 1.4 billion dollar stock drop:
http://fortune.com/2017/04/11/united...es-stock-drop/
And now, United Airlines doesn't agree:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.64399f9c1f33
United is to be blamed for it's policies and not increasing their offer for volunteers. Their punishment is a PR nightmare, and dropping stock prices (but they'll bounce back).
The security/police is to be blamed for their brutal enforcement techniques. They have already suspended one of their personnel.
The passenger is to be blamed for behaving like a ornery 4 year old. His punishment in addition to his bloody face, is his reputation is being smeared all over social media (for both being petulant and kind of a scumbag).
“To me there is no dishonor in being wrong and learning. There is dishonor in willful ignorance and there is dishonor in disrespect.” James Hatch, former Navy Seal and current Yale student.
I don't disagree that the man behaved poorly, but we are starting to get more of the story. United didn't give him all of the information, at least according to witnesses on the plane:
"The man who ended up bloodied and screaming Sunday night had initially agreed to get off the plane, passenger Jayse Anspach said. "Him and his wife, they volunteered initially," Anspach said. "But once they found out that the next flight wasn't until (Monday) at 2:30 p.m., he said, 'I can't do that. I gotta be at work.' So he sat back down." The harder the officers tried to get the man to leave, the harder the man insisted he stay.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/11/travel...ght/index.html
I agree that many passengers these days act like idiots and are oblivious to their behaviour. But the airlines must shoulder much of blamed for a lot of what is going on:
http://time.com/4751475/american-air.../?xid=homepage
http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/22/us/ame...ontation-trnd/
To each their own, I guess. To me, if you pay for a seat on an airplane, you should get to keep it (I know thats pretty radical!)
And could United have handled it better? A better question is what could they have realistically done worse? IMO, they should have upped their offer until they got enough bites. If they reached their maximum, and still no takers then you pay for your employees to ride there on Greyhound or buy a ticket on another airlines. The police here look like absolute goons and united looks even sillier.
In an oligopoly, I cant say ill never use united again, but i will do my best not to.
That's not the point. Of course, if you buy a ticket you should get to keep it. But if they say you have to leave, you need to leave. You can't act like a two year old and scream and hold onto you chair. Instead, you get off the goddamn plane and figure out your next option. That's what you would do and that's what I would do. Because we are adults.
And by the way, I hate United. I will never fly them if I can absolutely avoid it.
Last edited by Two Utes; 04-11-2017 at 10:30 AM.
I'm told that the 37,000 word (per Anderson Cooper on CNN last night) contract you sign when you buy a ticket entitles the airline to give your seat to someone else.
I've never read it, and I never will. So, it may or may not be true. But, according to CNN, United has a legal right to re-accommodate anyone.
This past weekend my Friday flight from Eugene to Knoxville got messed up due to the weather problems, and I was going to have to spend 2 days, yes 2 days in Minneapolis. There were ZERO available flights on Saturday. I asked nicely if they could route me through SLC where I have family, which they did. So, I got a weekend with my parents and a few siblings. If you fly, crap happens. Smile and make the best of it.
Ah ok that makes sense. Well said.
Given the complexity of flight, it's amazing there aren't more problems than there are....
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
Serious question because I honestly dont know. What legal right do they have to boot paying customers in favor of united employees who they want to deadhead? i know there are some terms and conditions that have to do with overbooking but I just dont know the rules.
He may not have acted the way I would have, but I would hardly call what guy did to be wrong or throwing a tantrum.
The real imbeciles here are United.
And of course Adam Carolla agrees with me.
Adam CarollaVerified account @adamcarolla 15h15 hours agoMore
Adam Carolla Retweeted Wayne
That crazy pussy should have got off the plane the 26th time he was told. Mistakes are made all the time but you must comply.
Whether good or bad, I think he and I have some cosmos connection.
This is dead on 100%
https://danwetzelsports.tumblr.com/p...avel-a-lot-for
Don't get me started on the dog craze at airports these days.
This is just to offer up an alternate viewpoint, that the passenger isn't a villain or the village idiot. Just a guy who made some poor decisions in life and ran afoul of the law. But also a guy who escaped Vietnam by boat in 1975 and has five kids, per this article:
https://www.theguardian.com/business...urgery-lawsuit
He's a much more sympathetic character than many might want to admit. More importantly, some of what is highlighted by Dan Wetzel's article could be solved by the airlines themselves. When people are treated like herded animals, they often end up acting like herded animals.
I'm with you on the dogs. The rest is whiny, though. Someone drinking coffee? Really? The drink cart is a major annoyance? Dan needs some Feng Shui in his life.
How does the person who lowers his seat into your lap not on this list? Airline seats should not recline.
The challenge with flights is I think a lot of these airlines are dealing with razor sharp margins on certain flight routes and so they need to have a full flight and so they overbook. The question is would you be willing to pay an extra $30 a flight so they didn't overbook?
I guess for me -- even if I was flaming angry about getting bumped -- if a police officer came on the plane and told me I needed to get off, I would get off and then raise hell with United. We've all got our own methods I guess.
I think some people (not you, LA) forget that it was not United employees that physically removed the passenger, it was police/airport security. United is to blame for overbooking flights, but in reality, all airlines do this. They could have (and should have) continued to increase their offers to get volunteers, and the one big mistake they made was cutting that off too soon and deciding to go to assigning involuntary removal.
The thing that made this go viral is on the police/security. The extraneous facts, that this guy is a doctor, convicted felon, etc. is all fluff that doesn't matter in the least.
“To me there is no dishonor in being wrong and learning. There is dishonor in willful ignorance and there is dishonor in disrespect.” James Hatch, former Navy Seal and current Yale student.
Does anyone really need to get to Louisville that badly? I don't think so.
“It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.”
Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.
Competitors jumping on the opportunity to exploit United's screw-up:
Delta OKs offers of up to $9,950 to flyers who give up seats
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireS...seats-46808209
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
Fun list. I've been guilty of bringing dinner on an airplane. And.....huge thumbs up on Adam Carolla -- the guy nails it 90 percent of the time.
I think I'm your Bizarro Jerry. If I want to recline 2 degrees, I'll do it and not apologize -- now THAT'S whining.
Personally, I don't bring my dogs with me to stores or airports etc..... but, I'm betting I'd prefer bumping into your dogs over you two so bring em along.In fact, if every store I shopped at had 100 English Bulldogs running free, my shopping experience would improve a million-fold. Dogs are awesome. People.....not so much.
“Children and dogs are as necessary to the welfare of the country as Wall Street and the railroads.” -- Harry S. Truman
"You never soar so high as when you stoop down to help a child or an animal." -- Jewish Proverb
"Three-time Pro Bowler Eric Weddle the most versatile, and maybe most intelligent, safety in the game." -- SI, 9/7/15, p. 107.
At 6'3" my knees sort of fit behind the seat when it is upright. If someone reclines it makes the flight nearly unbearable as my legs go numb because I can't move them and the chair is pressed into them the whole time.Fun list. I've been guilty of bringing dinner on an airplane. And.....huge thumbs up on Adam Carolla -- the guy nails it 90 percent of the time.
I think I'm your Bizarro Jerry. If I want to recline 2 degrees, I'll do it and not apologize -- now THAT'S whining.
Personally, I don't bring my dogs with me to stores or airports etc..... but, I'm betting I'd prefer bumping into your dogs over you two so bring em along.
I'll typically sit down and jam my knees against the back of the seat so when the chump sits down in front of me and tries to recline he'll think the button is broken. Nothing brings me joy quite like watching a guy bang back in his chair or rock back and forth trying to get it to budge and then giving up. I had a guy once nearly have a conniption when he thought his seat was broken. He was loud and smelled bad.
I'm watering down how I really feel, but people who recline on a plane are the worst people on earth.
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