The Utes' offensive line woes

[LA Ute]

How did we get into this position? I've forgotten. Injuries? Players who didn't work out? Poor recruiting? I think it's really killing us.

[UTEopia]

We lost a couple of highly touted recruits right at signing day. One is playing at UCLA. We whiffed on some JUCO guys that we were unable to sign and the guys we did sign, Pouvave and Lozano have not panned out. For years we were able to beat up the MWC with guards playing tackle. Look where Beadles and Bergstrom play in the NFL (guard). This caught up to us when we jumped to the PAC because we have played with guards.

[U-Ute]

I was not aware of the guard/tackle situation. It makes sense. Top caliber tackles are hard to find but you need them against the top ends we face now.

[SoCalPat]

How did we get into this position? I've forgotten. Injuries? Players who didn't work out? Poor recruiting? I think it's really killing us.

Missing on X was significant, although he was never a Utah lock. We've had a few misses in recruiting and some bad luck with health. But for Kyle to tout the O-line as a strength and for it to be mediocre is either a huge disconnect on Kyle's part, or Dan Finn is a lousy O-line coach. I understand Kyle's need to paint a pretty picture in the offseason for the fanbase, but he's never been one to be so dead wrong in an assessment. I think Finn is part of some shuffling that most coaches in Kyle's situation will undergo in order to get the team better and save his own skin.

[crazyute]

sure would have been nice to have deondre wesley. the starting RT for byu. He is a typical RT. 6'6" 320. We don't have that height and size on our line.

we are playing 5 guards on our line. Our RT is 6'2" 305. now think of our right side as a whole as salt is 6'2" 320. not alot of height and length over there.

I would like to see us finish the season like this on the line.

LT- andrew albers 6'7" 310
LG- jeremiah poutasi 6'5" 340
C- hiva lutui 6'2" 305
RG- Isaac asiata 6'4" 320
RT- marc pouvave 6'4" 315

[crazyute]

also does anyone have and inside info on on zach lindsay. I know he is down at snow college. he is a starter. are we stashing him? he also brings the height and length we need 6'7" 320

[Hot Lunch]

also does anyone have and inside info on on zach lindsay. I know he is down at snow college. he is a starter. are we stashing him? he also brings the height and length we need 6'7" 320

You can't really stash guys at a JC anymore. Zach has the ability to sign with anyone once he qualifies. I have no idea if he has been good or not down their in Ephraim but I would bet, that if he has been, he will have a lot of schools calling. Snow has produced a lot of players over the past few years that have contributed to some good programs. If Zach is playing well, I am sure there are a lot of schools that have taken notice and are contacting him.

[concerned]

Here is what I don't get: before the season, all we heard about was how we recognized that O line was weak last year and needed to be improved. All summer we heard about how we had improved the o line, how it was now going to be a strength not a weakness, how we now have Pac 12 bodies and depth, how Poutasi was the solution at LT, how he was going to be all conference and would probably leave early after next year for the NFL draft.

Now all we her is that we have five guards playing out of position and we cant recruit tackles, and Poutasi is too slow and small to play his position.

Why would anybody have any hope that it is ever going to improve?

[UBlender]

Here is what I don't get: before the season, all we heard about was how we recognized that O line was weak last year and needed to be improved. All summer we heard about how we had improved the o line, how it was now going to be a strength not a weakness, how we now have Pac 12 bodies and depth, how Poutasi was the solution at LT, how he was going to be all conference and would probably leave early after next year for the NFL draft.

Now all we her is that we have five guards playing out of position and we cant recruit tackles, and Poutasi is too slow and small to play his position.

Why would anybody have any hope that it is ever going to improve?

I guess the silver lining takeaway is that we seem fine on the interior of the OL. We know Poutasi is a good player in general (made HM All PAC 12 as a true freshman at RT), he just isn't a LT and will likely be very good once again if he can move back to RT or guard. Aiono also belongs at guard and has shown enough flashes at RT to provide hope that he would be good at guard.

I do think we've made some progress on the OL. We have decent run-blocking and downfield blocking on screen passes, but our tackles just can't handle the speed rush. We also have some quality youth and depth as the core of this group will be together for several years and give us a chance to build some consistency. But we need answers at tackle. We might have an answer at RT in Poutasi (although it is possible that his exposure at LT this season will prevent him from ever succeeding at either tackle spot in the future).

Optimistically, if we can find an LT we could be solid next year (admittedly that is a HUGE if):

LT - Albers, Barton, ???
LG - Asiata/Aiono
C - Lutui
RG - Salt
RT - Poutasi

Throw in Tuimauga, Pouvave, Friel and you have some experienced depth while hopefully some of the younger guys develop (Frison, Uhutafe, etc). Salt is the only anticipated Sr starter so it gives you a chance to keep the group mostly intact for the following year and have a nice run.

But none of it works unless we get settled at both tackle spots.

[Scratch]

I guess the silver lining takeaway is that we seem fine on the interior of the OL. We know Poutasi is a good player in general (made HM All PAC 12 as a true freshman at RT), he just isn't a LT and will likely be very good once again if he can move back to RT or guard. Aiono also belongs at guard and has shown enough flashes at RT to provide hope that he would be good at guard.

I do think we've made some progress on the OL. We have decent run-blocking and downfield blocking on screen passes, but our tackles just can't handle the speed rush. We also have some quality youth and depth as the core of this group will be together for several years and give us a chance to build some consistency. But we need answers at tackle. We might have an answer at RT in Poutasi (although it is possible that his exposure at LT this season will prevent him from ever succeeding at either tackle spot in the future).

Optimistically, if we can find an LT we could be solid next year (admittedly that is a HUGE if):

LT - Albers, Barton, ???
LG - Asiata/Aiono
C - Lutui
RG - Salt
RT - Poutasi

Throw in Tuimauga, Pouvave, Friel and you have some experienced depth while hopefully some of the younger guys develop (Frison, Uhutafe, etc). Salt is the only anticipated Sr starter so it gives you a chance to keep the group mostly intact for the following year and have a nice run.

But none of it works unless we get settled at both tackle spots.

I think it would be great to redshirt Barton for a year just so he can get up to speed with the college game, but it will be interesting to see if we need him to jump in and play immediately. Also, who knows if he'll be ready. I guess if he can come in and be an immediate upgrade at LT, that would be a pretty great thing.

[crazyute]

You can't really stash guys at a JC anymore. Zach has the ability to sign with anyone once he qualifies. I have no idea if he has been good or not down their in Ephraim but I would bet, that if he has been, he will have a lot of schools calling. Snow has produced a lot of players over the past few years that have contributed to some good programs. If Zach is playing well, I am sure there are a lot of schools that have taken notice and are contacting him.
you can still stash. the coaches down there can keep other school away. you do each other solids and both sides can take advantage of it.

[UBlender]

I think it would be great to redshirt Barton for a year just so he can get up to speed with the college game, but it will be interesting to see if we need him to jump in and play immediately. Also, who knows if he'll be ready. I guess if he can come in and be an immediate upgrade at LT, that would be a pretty great thing.

Yeah, I would always prefer not to rely on true freshmen and especially at a premium position. Still, it has been done (I believe Xavier Suafilo started for UCLA at LT as a true, among others) and I have little doubt that if Barton is the best option for winning games in 2014 he will play. He has been bred for the position. A lot will come down to Albers. I really have no idea how good to expect him to be. Can he be a solid JC OT along the lines of John Cullen? Or is he more of a depth guy? I honestly have no idea.

[sancho]

Yeah, I would always prefer not to rely on true freshmen and especially at a premium position. Still, it has been done (I believe Xavier Suafilo started for UCLA at LT as a true, among others) and I have little doubt that if Barton is the best option for winning games in 2014 he will play. He has been bred for the position. A lot will come down to Albers. I really have no idea how good to expect him to be. Can he be a solid JC OT along the lines of John Cullen? Or is he more of a depth guy? I honestly have no idea.

It's also possible that another JC comes into the mix as well, right?

[concerned]

It's also possible that another JC comes into the mix as well, right?

what are the odds the JC is the next Cullen and not the next Pouvave or Lozanoi

[sancho]

what are the odds the JC is the next Cullen and not the next Pouvave or Lozanoi

1 in 7? I don't know. I do think we should bring in some guys and let them compete for the job.

[Hot Lunch]

what are the odds the JC is the next Cullen and not the next Pouvave or Lozanoi

My own personal rule and expectations is 25%. I only expect 1 out of every 4 JC players to work out and play a role. I know I have had some back and forth with SoCalPat on this in the past and he feels differently than I do, but this is the rule that I live by when getting excited about JC kids.

[Hot Lunch]

you can still stash. the coaches down there can keep other school away. you do each other solids and both sides can take advantage of it.

I disagree with this. If the kid is on the field and playing he will be noticed. The only way to stash a kid is if he is just practicing and not seeing the field. If coaches are watching JC film and a kid stands out, there is no stashing that kid anymore. Too many coaches are evaluating players at other positions.

[LA Ute]

I am loving the discussion here. :snack:

[concerned]

I'm also not sure that all we need is a couple of tackles. We don't seem to get much push from the interior line in the running attack, which helps explain why we are so miserable on 3rd and short.

[sancho]

I'm also not sure that all we need is a couple of tackles. We don't seem to get much push from the interior line in the running attack, which helps explain why we are so miserable on 3rd and short.

We need a constant influx of offensive linemen of all types. Without any experience or expertise, I present my ideal pattern for a recruiting year:

1-2 QB
1-2 RB
2-3 WR
1 TE
5-6 OL
5-6 DL/LB
4-5 DB

(that's 19-25 scholarships). We invariably have more RBs/QBs than this, but they are recruited as athletes and turned into WRs or DBs.

[LA Ute]

It does seem that Kyle and Co. are still getting the hang of PAC-12 recruiting and the number and quality of athletes needed to compete.

[crazyute]

I disagree with this. If the kid is on the field and playing he will be noticed. The only way to stash a kid is if he is just practicing and not seeing the field. If coaches are watching JC film and a kid stands out, there is no stashing that kid anymore. Too many coaches are evaluating players at other positions.
this just isn't true. a juco coach can tell the prospect team A or team B are asking about you. but team Z sent you and they want to still. are you committed if so we will tell team A and team B that you are committed to another team and aren't interested.
this happens very frequently at the JUCO level. so yes you can stash. the JUCO coaches can push other teams away. Especially if the player is still fully committed.

[crazyute]

Looking at could be with next years line. this is of course everything works out. and that jackson barton graduates early and comes in this spring. and gets the reps at LT.

LT- jackson barton 6'6" 300
LG- jeremiah poutasi 6'5" 340
C- hiva lutui 6'2" 305
RG- siaosi aiono 6'2" 310/ junior salt 6'2" 320/isaac asiata 6'4" 320 I prefer asiata winning this battle.
RT- andrew albers 6'7" 315

[crazyute]

has anyone heard if there has been tinkering with this unit over the bye?

[Jarid in Cedar]

has anyone heard if there has been tinkering with this unit over the bye?

I wouldn't count on it.