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View Full Version : The Jazz "core four" so far



arizonaute
11-21-2013, 05:47 PM
and some other thoughts
In the three games I have watched one in person and two on TV I think the following.

Derrick Favors is still a work in progress. Flashes of brilliance but needs to be much more consistant. Gettings reps will help with that. Very happy he signed an extension. good job by front office.

Same for Kanter. Needs to learn when to pass out and start over. Getting good reps though as well.

Hayward seems like his defense regressed some this year. Learning to be the man this year. By the end of the year will know for sure if he is worth a max deal. Is a restricted free agent so we ill see how bad he wants to stay by how bad the posion pill is in some other teams offer.

Alec Burks is reminding me more of CJ miles each time I see him. Flashes of talent but just does not seem to get in a flow. Shot selection needs a lot of work. Not very dependable from outside. flails to the basket a lot. sometimes his defense would make Carlos boozer look good ( just doesn yell and 1 after someone runs by). Would bet his plus/minus is larger than others .

Coach Corbin- not sure many coaches could be a difference maker with this team. Not sure how much of this can be blamed on him for the young people to take their lumps.


Also hope that a trade for Jimmer does not happen with the Jazz. Jazz fan ( think BYU fan with more misguided opinions of team) would be insufferable.

Would not be surprised to see one of the two big contracts from Golden State go during the trade time of Jan.

Miss Demare Carroll. Richard Jefferson makes me miss a lot of people actually but the expiring contract makes sense for the jazz this year.

arizonaute
11-21-2013, 08:09 PM
Enes Kanter http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=202683


Derrick Favors http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=202324


Alec Burks http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=202692

Gordan Hayward http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=202330&zone-mode=zone&display-mode=performance

Applejack
11-22-2013, 07:47 AM
I haven't been able to watch much of the Jazz this year (thankfully), but I think Core Four is a misleading term. Burks is, in my opinion, clearly not an NBA starter (at least on a contender). I've always thought that Favors was a potential defensive monster, Kanter is a dependable inside guy, and GHay is a great 3rd option on a championship squad. It looks like a Core 3 in need of a superstar.

arizonaute
11-25-2013, 05:44 PM
http://weareutahjazz.com/lockedonjazz/2013/11/25/breakdown-good-news-hayward-is-making-progress/ david lock says Hayward is getting better

arizonaute
11-26-2013, 12:18 PM
watched them play Chicago on NBA tv last night.

Nice to see Evans shoot something other than a dunk. Liked some of the defense he played. Reps this year will be very good for him.


Gobert could be something really good. Like his DRCA face when runs back on D.


Hayward needs to be used to being the man. It looks like it is tiring him some. He is still looking up at his ceiling.


Trey Burke with big shots towards the end. He is going to to make Favors and Kanter look good. ( I thought he was the steal of the draft).


Alec Burks continues to climb into CJ miles air to me. Off balance and poor shot selection. Just seems to not see the flow of the team at the time and pick and choose his spots. Do like when he has a drive that he goes all out. Wonder if we are seeing him close to his ceiling.


Still all in for tanking for Jabari and allowing the young bucks to get some needed reps.

Applejack
04-22-2014, 07:29 AM
The local hacks are reporting that Jim boylen is a leading candidate for the jazz head coach. This must be a joke, correct?

DrumNFeather
04-22-2014, 08:24 AM
The local hacks are reporting that Jim boylen is a leading candidate for the jazz head coach. This must be a joke, correct?

As a non-Jazz fan...I would love that.

LA Ute
04-22-2014, 08:46 AM
The local hacks are reporting that Jim boylen is a leading candidate for the jazz head coach. This must be a joke, correct?

It would be interesting to know how that rumor started. It wouldn't surprise me if...well, never mind. Boylen might actually be a decent NBA coach. Maybe one does not need to know X's and O's and fundamentals to coach well there.

chrisrenrut
04-22-2014, 08:57 AM
It would be interesting to know how that rumor started. It wouldn't surprise me if...well, never mind. Boylen might actually be a decent NBA coach. Maybe one does not need to know X's and O's and fundamentals to coach well there.

Are they talking about Jim Boylan? http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Boylan

concerned
04-22-2014, 09:04 AM
Are they talking about Jim Boylan? http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Boylan


No. Boylen and Lindsay worked together in Houston from 93-2006 and apparently are close friends. Lindsay respects him, so the rumor goes.

Applejack
04-22-2014, 09:28 AM
Are they talking about Jim Boylan? http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Boylan

That's what I assumed. I was wrong.

I'm trying to remember Boylen's knowledge of the game (it's hard to think beyond his antics and recruiting flops). I remember a lot of iso on offense (Jiggytime!) and some (most) nights where we truly failed to show up on defense. One of the back-handed compliments fans dolled out to JimmyB was that he was running a pro offense with college talent. Maybe that's right? Maybe he was running stuff that works with NBA skill and athleticism but which is a huge flop in college?

I mean, the guy has been the top assistant to Izzo and now Poppovich. That's pretty good company. Maybe the recruiting game/immaturity of the college kids was so foreign to Boy-dawg that he was never able to focus on game planning.

How do you reconcile his Utah years with his success as an assistant?

Diehard Ute
04-22-2014, 12:14 PM
Just bad luck. He was second choice for some good recruits. Lost one too many close games and had his team quit on the season.

I would be really happy if he got the Jazz job. I haven't followed the Jazz since the last Deron Williams playoff year. A Boylen hire would probably bring me back to pulling for them.

You'll have to bring a lot of friends, cause almost every other Jazz fan hates the idea.

Given the current state of the Jazz, you'd think they'd want a skilled coach and a PR boost...even if Boylen can coach, do you really want to start in a crater PR wise? It's not like the Jazz front office staff is riding a wave of fan support already. Most think they've been the biggest problem the last 3 years.

On a side note, with ESA's purposefully awful acoustics Boylen's mic rants should be interesting

Diehard Ute
04-22-2014, 12:27 PM
Man, Jazz fans sound worse than Utah fans. There is nothing the Jazz front office could have done over the past three years to win.

With the high draft pick, Jazz fans will be excited no matter who the coach is. And expectations will be high. Whoever gets the coaching job will not be stepping into a good situation.

It's not the winning part, it's the way they've handled everything.

Honestly, why blame Corbin when you imploded the team? Seems the front office is as much if not more to blame (all of the 'experts' said going into the season the Jazz wouldn't win with the team given to Corbin)

Corbin stepped into an awful situation. Following a legend who had a rift that caused the top player to be sent packing, and then that legend never really leaves.

I dislike the Jazz and always have, but their decision making the last 3 years has been poor at best. There are other options than Boylen...why bring in baggage when you don't have to?

LA Ute
04-22-2014, 01:50 PM
That's what I assumed. I was wrong.

I'm trying to remember Boylen's knowledge of the game (it's hard to think beyond his antics and recruiting flops). I remember a lot of iso on offense (Jiggytime!) and some (most) nights where we truly failed to show up on defense. One of the back-handed compliments fans dolled out to JimmyB was that he was running a pro offense with college talent. Maybe that's right? Maybe he was running stuff that works with NBA skill and athleticism but which is a huge flop in college?

I mean, the guy has been the top assistant to Izzo and now Poppovich. That's pretty good company. Maybe the recruiting game/immaturity of the college kids was so foreign to Boy-dawg that he was never able to focus on game planning.

How do you reconcile his Utah years with his success as an assistant?

That's what I was saying. Maybe Jim just isn't cut out to coach in college. It always looked like he was trying to coach NBA-style while he was at the U.

mpfunk
04-22-2014, 02:30 PM
It would be interesting to know how that rumor started. It wouldn't surprise me if...well, never mind. Boylen might actually be a decent NBA coach. Maybe one does not need to know X's and O's and fundamentals to coach well there.

He will be a terrible NBA coach, just like he was a terrible college basketball coach.

mpfunk
04-22-2014, 02:32 PM
Just bad luck. He was second choice for some good recruits. Lost one too many close games and had his team quit on the season.

I would be really happy if he got the Jazz job. I haven't followed the Jazz since the last Deron Williams playoff year. A Boylen hire would probably bring me back to pulling for them.

It wasn't bad luck, it was he was shitty at every aspect of being a college basketball coach. He couldn't recruit players, he couldn't develop players, and he couldn't coach. He did nothing right.

I'd be pissed if he got the Jazz job. Why in the hell couldn't that bastard get a head job when we were still paying his buyout?

mpfunk
04-22-2014, 02:33 PM
That's what I was saying. Maybe Jim just isn't cut out to coach in college. It always looked like he was trying to coach NBA-style while he was at the U.

Jim Boylen tried to coach at Utah, well that is news to me.

LA Ute
04-22-2014, 02:51 PM
Jim Boylen tried to coach at Utah, well that is news to me.

He held the position of head basketball coach. We can say that.

UTEopia
04-23-2014, 10:04 AM
It's not the winning part, it's the way they've handled everything.

Honestly, why blame Corbin when you imploded the team? Seems the front office is as much if not more to blame (all of the 'experts' said going into the season the Jazz wouldn't win with the team given to Corbin)

Corbin stepped into an awful situation. Following a legend who had a rift that caused the top player to be sent packing, and then that legend never really leaves.

I dislike the Jazz and always have, but their decision making the last 3 years has been poor at best. There are other options than Boylen...why bring in baggage when you don't have to?


I have a friend in the Jazz front office. When they chose not to re-sign Milsap or Jefferson it was because they believed they would be better off in the long run to get in a good draft position for the upcoming draft and see which of the young guys could develop into consistent players. I don't think this was a secret. They accomplished the No. 1 goal. I don't know if they accomplished goal No.2 because I do not watch the Jazz very often. From what I have heard and seen, this is where Corbin failed. The players did not improve this year over where they were previously and I think most of them are either at their ceiling or close too it. The sad thing is that Kanter and Favors were both No. 3 picks, Burke and Hayword were both lottery picks. They do not have an all star on the roster and are still at least 2 players away from making the playoffs.

concerned
04-23-2014, 10:20 AM
I have a friend in the Jazz front office. When they chose not to re-sign Milsap or Jefferson it was because they believed they would be better off in the long run to get in a good draft position for the upcoming draft and see which of the young guys could develop into consistent players. I don't think this was a secret. They accomplished the No. 1 goal. I don't know if they accomplished goal No.2 because I do not watch the Jazz very often. From what I have heard and seen, this is where Corbin failed. The players did not improve this year over where they were previously and I think most of them are either at their ceiling or close too it. The sad thing is that Kanter and Favors were both No. 3 picks, Burke and Hayword were both lottery picks. They do not have an all star on the roster and are still at least 2 players away from making the playoffs.

And none of them can play a lick of defense. I think that is a big reason Corbin got fired too. DJ and PK said yesterday that they had heard rumblings that Lindsay did not like the way Corbin ran practices and did not think the Jazz were tough enough. You keep hearing that Kanter and Favors cant play together, that Kanter does not want to be here, and that what the Jazz really want to do (despite the Jabari hype) is draft Wiggins or Embid if they hit the jackpot, move Favors to the 4 and trade Kanter.

If all of them have reached their ceilings or are close to it, that says more about Kevin O'Conner than it does Corbin (with the exception of Trey Burke).

concerned
04-23-2014, 12:04 PM
I guess, but every NBA GM would have picked Favors and Kanter where they were picked +/- a spot or two.


Yeah, there were not any obvious better selections out there, and we traded for Favors under duress. But should have taken Paul George instead of Hayward.

Two Utes
04-23-2014, 01:39 PM
Yeah, there were not any obvious better selections out there, and we traded for Favors under duress. But should have taken Paul George instead of Hayward.

That is the biggest Monday morning QB statement you have ever made. You can't point to a single guy he got drafted after Hayward except George and if the draft were redone Hayward would be higher now.

concerned
04-23-2014, 01:53 PM
That is the biggest Monday morning QB statement you have ever made. You can't point to a single guy he got drafted after Hayward except George and if the draft were redone Hayward would be higher now.

Of course it is (well, maybe not the biggest). So what. Water is wet, too. That is what message boards are for. I didnt point to anybody except George.