Can the F-35 Dogfight?

[USS Utah]

In the past few weeks I have started hearing arguments that the F-35 Lightning Joint Strike Fighter will be poor at best when it comes to dogfighting. Presumabely, though, Lockheed knows how to build a fighter plane than can dogfight, and there is nothing revolutionary about the F-35 outside of the short take off and landing (STOVAL) characteristics of the B variant being produced for the Marines.

http://flattopshistorywarpolitics.yuku.com/topic/2937/master/1/?page=1#.UqjFsCfdCVM

[Sullyute]

I don't know anything about the military, but I have played Axis and Allies a lot and read The Art of War by Sun Tzu in college. So my question is...is dog fighting still an important part of a battle or have modern ammunitions and drones lessened the need for good dog fighting jets?

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

[USS Utah]

I don't know anything about the military, but I have played Axis and Allies a lot and read The Art of War by Sun Tzu in college. So my question is...is dog fighting still an important part of a battle or have modern ammunitions and drones lessened the need for good dog fighting jets?

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

The fact that drones have at times had fighter escorts over parts of Afghanistan would suggest not.

When air-to-air missiles were introduced in the 1950s, experts said that the era of the dogfight was over. The Navy and Air Force bought a fighter that didn't have a gun because it was assumed that it's missiles would make a gun unnecessary. Then both services started flying over North Vietnam, with rules of engagement that required visual identificaton, and encountered MiGs that were more maneuverable. They found that the parameters for a successful missile engagement were actually rather narrow and pilots often found themselves in a position where having a gun could have been a big help. There were a handful of engagements between Phantoms and MiGs where the Phantoms fired multiple missiles without scoring any hits. It was one such engagement which led the Navy to start its fighter weapons school, better known as Top Gun. Students learned about the performance envelope of their missiles, how best to use them, and flew mock missions against disimilar aircraft to simulate engaging MiGs. Top Gun grads then went to Vietnam and started scoring kills against MiGs.

After Vietnam, the Navy and Air Force made sure to include a gun on future fighters such as the F-14, F-15 and F-16. At the same time, however, the air-to-air missiles improved in quality and with expanded capability in their performance envelope. The Sparrow radar guided missile was replaced with the AMRAMM, which is called a fire and forget missile because the pilot does not have to maintain a radar lock on the target after it is fired. The Sidewinder has become an all aspect heat seeker, meaning it can be fired from any angle on an enemy aircraft, rather that at the rear of that aircraft. With the F-22 and F-35, the sensors for aquiring and locking on targets has become even more sophisticated. In an oft used example, one F-22 took on 4 to 6 F-15s, F-16s or F/A-18s, and scored "kills" against all before they were even aware of the Raptor's presence. Both the F-22 and the F-35 will most likely never be in a position to use their guns, but they have them anyway, just in case.

The simple fact is, until an air engagement occurs between the latest generation 4.5 and generation 5 aircraft, under ROEs that require visiual identification, we won't know whether dogfighting is a thing of the past or not. Russia and China have their own stealth programs, and, along with France, Britain and Sweden, have built aircraft that are reffered to as generation 4.5 because they have surpassed the F-15s and F-16s in some ways, but still lack stealth. Many countries around the world are buying they generation 4.5 fighters.

[Sullyute]

Great write up. Thanks for all the information. I do hope that despite all the new technology and fire power that diplomacy is used first and often.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

[USS Utah]

Great write up. Thanks for all the information. I do hope that despite all the new technology and fire power that diplomacy is used first and often.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

War shoould always be the last resort.