Hands off my (Nick) Johnson! - Utah vs. Arizona III

[DrumNFeather]

Utah gets its third crack at the Arizona Wildcats this season. They have played Arizona tough in both games really neutralizing Aaron Gordon, but haven't quite been able to get over the hump against the rest of the squad.

Nick Johnson is really good and seems to be able to turn it on at a moments notice. We'll really have to work to limit all of the other guys like Hollis-Jefferson, who just killed us in OT.

Here's hoping the Utes can finish the job on Thurs.

[SoCalPat]

Utah gets its third crack at the Arizona Wildcats this season. They have played Arizona tough in both games really neutralizing Aaron Gordon, but haven't quite been able to get over the hump against the rest of the squad.

Nick Johnson is really good and seems to be able to turn it on at a moments notice. We'll really have to work to limit all of the other guys like Hollis-Jefferson, who just killed us in OT.

Here's hoping the Utes can finish the job on Thurs.

We recruited Reyes exactly for matchups like Hollis-Jefferson. We literally have no one on our roster who can give him a fair fight.

What we need right now is a recap/story of how it's not the worst thing in the world to lose your opening game in the conference tournament. It's created more NCAA champs than expected over the years. Our last Final Four was the byproduct of such a loss. And in Vegas, too. Let's hope lightning can strike again, both for our benefit and Arizona's.

[LA Ute]

We recruited Reyes exactly for matchups like Hollis-Jefferson. We literally have no one on our roster who can give him a fair fight.

What we need right now is a recap/story of how it's not the worst thing in the world to lose your opening game in the conference tournament. It's created more NCAA champs than expected over the years. Our last Final Four was the byproduct of such a loss. And in Vegas, too. Let's hope lightning can strike again, both for our benefit and Arizona's.

You probably disagree with me on this, but I hope we get come measure of revenge tomorrow against Hollis-Jefferson. Not the most important thing but a win + some revenge on that guy would be extra-sweet.

[LA Ute]

If you're Sean Miller you're not thrilled about having to play Utah tomorrow. That's a nice thought to contemplate.

[chrisrenrut]

:clap:On the thread title

[Applejack]

Anything can happen with a noon tipoff!

[SoCalPat]

Why I'm feeling good about today's game.

http://www.covers.com/articles/articles.aspx?theArt=363087

[Ex'dute]

Went down to the sports book this morning. While I was there, there must have been 100 'Zona fans in line and only a couple of Utes. Yet the line dropped from Utah +8 to Utah +7.5. That means the "big money" is going on the Utes.

Of course, I went with my heart and put cash down on Utah winning outright. Who needs those stinkin' 7.5 points? (Truth be told, I did make a money line bet on the Utes, but also made an even bigger bet with the line).

[Applejack]

Went down to the sports book this morning. While I was there, there must have been 100 'Zona fans in line and only a couple of Utes. Yet the line dropped from Utah +8 to Utah +7.5. That means the "big money" is going on the Utes.

Of course, I went with my heart and put cash down on Utah winning outright. Who needs those stinkin' 7.5 points? (Truth be told, I did make a money line bet on the Utes, but also made an even bigger bet with the line).

For a win this afternoon, we need Taylor and JLover to have big games. If either one of them fails to play well, we are toast. That's what happens when you play the best team in the land.

[DrumNFeather]

For a win this afternoon, we need Taylor and JLover to have big games. If either one of them fails to play well, we are toast. That's what happens when you play the best team in the land.

We gotta limit the boneheaded plays and the sleepwalking stretches that this team is so prone to. When our bigs catch the ball they need to go up strong with it, none of this take it down to your knees crap and lose it. Additionally, our guys need to work without the ball to get good clean looks. The stall ball strategy will not work against a team like Arizona if we're not getting good clean looks. Finally rebound like there is no tomorrow!

[Mormon Red Death]

Session is sold out. Scalpers getting 150 a ticket.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk 2

[Applejack]

Session is sold out. Scalpers getting 150 a ticket.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk 2

Yikes! During the old MWC/WAC days, we would always buy a single ticket to the first day, dress up in full Ute attire, sneak into the section of a team we knew would be bounced early (usually CSU was a good bet), and cheer like crazy as the Rams lost to Wyoming. Then, as the down-trodden fans left, we would congratulate them on their great season. Inevitably, people would give us their entire tournament packages for free because we were "such good guys." SUCKERS!!!

[UBlender]

For a win this afternoon, we need Taylor and JLover to have big games. If either one of them fails to play well, we are toast. That's what happens when you play the best team in the land.

We're going to have to hit a good percentage of threes, IMO. Loveridge, Tucker, Taylor, Ogbe....doesn't matter who. UA's length will make it very tough to score inside (and we won't get a lot of fouls called, either) so we are going to need to shoot well from deep.

[DrumNFeather]

Arizona came to play.

[DrumNFeather]

Arizona getting calls like we're in Tuscan again here early.

[U-Ute]

Arizona getting calls like we're in Tuscan again here early.

The whole block/charge call has been totally screwed up this year. It is a bigger crapshoot than ever.

[Applejack]

Arizona getting calls like we're in Tuscan again here early.

That latest Arizona commercial did not get me excited for women's discus.

[sancho]

Arizona getting calls like we're in Tuscan again here early.

Charge, out of bounds, pushing,.... they've already made every classic bad call, and it just started!

[Applejack]

Ball don't lie, Tarzceweaskiu

[DrumNFeather]

We're in a bit of trouble here. We haven't had a good look in three or four trips donw the floor and Arizona is hitting everything. Lenz and jump shot are not words that belong in the same sentence.

[Senioritis]

This one's over.

Go ahead universe, prove me wrong!

[DrumNFeather]

We gotta limit the boneheaded plays and the sleepwalking stretches that this team is so prone to. When our bigs catch the ball they need to go up strong with it, none of this take it down to your knees crap and lose it. Additionally, our guys need to work without the ball to get good clean looks. The stall ball strategy will not work against a team like Arizona if we're not getting good clean looks. Finally rebound like there is no tomorrow!

Yeah, we're not doing either right now.

[Applejack]

Uh-oh

[U-Ute]

Yikes.

Getting ugly fast. :(

[U-Ute]

Nick Johnson is fun to watch. The guy has a great basketball IQ.

[Senioritis]

I don't like the prospects of listening to Ernie Kent rave about freaking Arizona for the next 80 minutes.

[Senioritis]

Hold on folks! Double digits!!

[DrumNFeather]

Time for some vigilante justice...someone needs to pop whatshisface in the jaw when he sticks his tongue out.

[DrumNFeather]

Now, who was saying that it didn't matter if we got UCLA or Arizona in the second round? ;)

[Senioritis]

I really thought bringing in Kovacevic would swing the momentum.

[DrumNFeather]

Ok Wildcats, you're good, and you're handing us our asses, I'll give you that. Please don't bitch about calls when you're up 21.

[sancho]

Now, who was saying that it didn't matter if we got UCLA or Arizona in the second round? ;)

That was me. Obviously wrong. But I did say it before zona lost to Oregon.

[DrumNFeather]

That was me. Obviously wrong. But I did say it before zona lost to Oregon.

Well, as inept as we've been, I'm not sure it would have mattered.

[Senioritis]

I drove 14 hours in a 15 passenger van to watch the Utah vs Arizona football game last fall. As Bill Marcroft is my witness, I will never understand how in the world they can recruit.

Tucson is like the Mexican Rust Belt, the Akron of the desert southwest.

This is how one consoles oneself when one's team is going to be lucky to break 30.

[DrumNFeather]

Air ball on a jump hook just about sums up this half.

[Senioritis]

13 points and 7 rebounds at the half.

If we're lucky, we'll get a team triple-double!

[U-Ute]

I really thought bringing in Kovacevic would swing the momentum.

Xan. The correct answer is Xan.

[LA Ute]

To borrow a Senioritis phrase, Arizona is wearing our butts like hats. They're playing superbly, so all credit to them. At the same time, we are helping them a lot.

[sancho]

13 points and 7 rebounds at the half.

If we're lucky, we'll get a team triple-double!

With turnovers as the third stat?

[U-Ute]

With turnovers as the third stat?

Maybe we can count minutes as one.

[LA Ute]

I really hate it when we set the wrong kind of record. Like fewest first-half points scored in PAC-12 tournament history.

[U-Ute]

Arizona right now.

1070

[U-Ute]

From the department of "Misery Loves Company": SDSU 36 - USU 15 at the half

[DrumNFeather]

Not getting that shot off at Stanford looms large right about now. Shoulda, coulda, woulda.

[Senioritis]

Even in Applejack's darkest dreams, this kind of game was impossible.

[LA Ute]

Not getting that shot off at Stanford looms large right about now. Shoulda, coulda, woulda.

The way I see it, we simply played our way into our current situation. We are who we are and deserve to be where we are. Next year we'll be better.

[DrumNFeather]

First points of the half!

[DrumNFeather]

The way I see it, we simply played our way into our current situation. We are who we are and deserve to be where we are. Next year we'll be better.

Sure, but I think it illustrates the thin margins that you're dealing with when you're talking about a team like ours.

[Applejack]

Even in Applejack's darkest dreams, this kind of game was impossible.

I thought we would show better than this.

And I've had some pretty dark dreams in my day, but most of them involve the words "T.D. Croshaw."

[sancho]

My only consolation right now is knowing that I get to watch McConnell and Johnson blow out against a worse team in two weeks. Those guys are almost as annoying as Stanford.

[LA Ute]

The way I see it, we simply played our way into our current situation. We are who we are and deserve to be where we are. Next year we'll be better.

I'll respond to myself. What we can expect next year are pretty much the same limitations, with hoped-for improvements:

1. Taylor will still be 5'10" tall. Can't do anything about that, but it's hard to see what might improve in his game. He already shoots and distributes pretty well. Maybe he will make fewer disastrous turnovers. He doesn't make that many, but the point guard allowing cross-court passes to be intercepted for slam-dunk breakaways really needs to be very, very rare.

2. Wright will still not be a great shooter, although we all hope he develops a pull-up jumper.

3. Loveridge may be playing more 3, and maybe he will not disappear for an entire half when he plays at that position.

4. Bachynski will improve, I think. So will Olsen. Kodiak's good at teaching bigs. So that's good.

5. Onwas will probably still be a terrible free throw shooter but might get better. He'll still contribute defense and athleticism.

6. Ogbe will be better and will get more minutes at the 2. But with Wright there, he won't really be contributing all that much.

7. Van Dyke will be preaching the gospel somewhere.

8. Kuzma might be really good. This is an area for hope. Same with Chapman. But they will both be freshmen with no exposure to D1 basketball.

9. Maybe Reyes, the new JC transfer, can rebound. We'll see.

10. Dakarai Tucker will still be our guy for the corner three.

11. Kovacevic?

12. Isaiah Wright? Redshirt?

13. Others?

Anyway, I don't want to be Debbie Downer but we should probably be a little cold-eyed about our chances next year. It's great that we have only 1 senior on the team, but the returning players are who they are. Maybe they'll get a lot better. Maybe maturity will make a huge difference. It did with Pimm's teams - the Vranes and Chambers group was much better their senior year than in their junior year. The team gelled. Maybe Kodiak's Utes will gel too.

[U-Ute]

I thought we would show better than this.

And I've had some pretty dark dreams in my day, but most of them involve the words "T.D. Croshaw."

Damnit! Don't curse me with your nightmares.

[LA Ute]

I'm not even watching right now.

[U-Ute]

I'm not even watching right now.

You're missing quite the rally. We've cut the lead to 32.

[DrumNFeather]

Checking in on the silver linings stats of the day: Louisville doing the same thing to Rutgers.

[U-Ute]

Aha. I think I found the source of our issues: Fields got rid of the chops.

Never get rid of the chops.

[DrumNFeather]

Couldn't even crack 40.

[Applejack]

I'll respond to myself. What we can expect next year are pretty much the same limitations, with hoped-for improvements:

1. Taylor will still be 5'10" tall. Can't do anything about that, but it's hard to see what might improve in his game. He already shoots and distributes pretty well. Maybe he will make fewer disastrous turnovers. He doesn't make that many, but the point guard allowing cross-court passes to be intercepted for slam-dunk breakaways really needs to be very, very rare.

2. Wright will still not be a great shooter, although we all hope he develops a pull-up jumper.

3. Loveridge may be playing more 3, and maybe he will not disappear for an entire half when he plays at that position.

4. Bachynski will improve, I think. So will Olsen. Kodiak's good at teaching bigs. So that's good.

5. Onwas will probably still be a terrible free throw shooter but might get better. He'll still contribute defense and athleticism.

6. Ogbe will be better and will get more minutes at the 2. But with Wright there, he won't really be contributing all that much.

7. Van Dyke will be preaching the gospel somewhere.

8. Kuzma might be really good. This is an area for hope. Same with Chapman. But they will both be freshmen with no exposure to D1 basketball.

9. Maybe Reyes, the new JC transfer, can rebound. We'll see.

10. Dakarai Tucker will still be our guy for the corner three.

11. Kovacevic?

12. Isaiah Wright? Redshirt?

13. Others?

Anyway, I don't want to be Debbie Downer but we should probably be a little cold-eyed about our chances next year. It's great that we have only 1 senior on the team, but the returning players are who they are. Maybe they'll get a lot better. Maybe maturity will make a huge difference. It did with Pimm's teams - the Vranes and Chambers group was much better their senior year than in their junior year. The team gelled. Maybe Kodiak's Utes will gel too.

Now who's the pessimist!?!?!

Honestly, getting flogged by the #1 team in the nation less than 24 hours after a hard fought victory over UW does very little to dampen my enthusiasm for next year.

1. I love Taylor. Our best defender and best shooter. Yes, he's a midget, but he's our midget, goshdarnit.

2. Wright is not going pro this year unless he gets disastrous advice. He needs to spend all summer learning one thing: hitting a wide-open three pointer. If he can just reliably hit that pretty easy shot, it unclogs our offense completely. Arizona had a great defensive gameplan for us today - ferociously attack the screen and roll with both defenders knowing that (a) we don't have screeners who can catch the ball and score and (b) we don't have shooters who will punish us for double-teaming. If Wright can learn to hit open 3s, our offense will open up for everybody.

3. Ute fans are down on JLover, but I don't understand why - he has improved his shooting this year and is still a great rebounder for his size. He needs to work on his 3s, but what will really help Jordan next year is (a) not playing so many minutes and (b) having other options on offense.

4. i thought Batshit had a great year. But I also think he has peaked. He is what he is at this point. Olsen may improve some (I actually liked his defense early in the game), but he's got a limited ceiling too.

5. Onwas should watch tape of every small forward who has ever played for the Spurs. They have two skills (a) defense - check, and (b) ability to hit corner threes - no check. Larry K shouldn't let Onwas do anything over the summer other than shoot corner 3s. (I know that corner 3s in college are the same distance, but they are still the most efficient shot outside of dunks and layups).

6. I think Ogbe has the best chance to make a leap next year.

7-13. Not much to see here.

[LA Ute]

Now who's the pessimist!?!?!

5. Onwas should watch tape of every small forward who has ever played for the Spurs. They have two skills (a) defense - check, and (b) ability to hit corner threes - no check. Larry K shouldn't let Onwas do anything over the summer other than shoot corner 3s. (I know that corner 3s in college are the same distance, but they are still the most efficient shot outside of dunks and layups).

I'd add 1,000 free throws a day, with the last 100 coming when he's dead tired and loud noise is playing on good speakers.

[Utah]

For us to take the next step and compete, we need Kuzma and Chapman to step up big time. If come the PAC-12 tournament next year, our best three players are Wright, Loveridge, and Taylor, we won't be any better. We will still be a middle of the road PAC-12 team.

Coach K is a great coach, I love Loveridge for coming to Utah and starting the turnaround, but we need PAC-12 talent. We have 2, maybe three PAC-12 players right now.

People disagreed with me in another thread saying that Kuzma and Chapman could/should be in our top 4 players next year, but if we are to get better like a lot people think we will, that will be the reason.

[LA Ute]

For us to take the next step and compete, we need Kuzma and Chapman to step up big time. If come the PAC-12 tournament next year, our best three players are Wright, Loveridge, and Taylor, we won't be any better. We will still be a middle of the road PAC-12 team.

Coach K is a great coach, I love Loveridge for coming to Utah and starting the turnaround, but we need PAC-12 talent. We have 2, maybe three PAC-12 players right now.

People disagreed with me in another thread saying that Kuzma and Chapman could/should be in our top 4 players next year, but if we are to get better like a lot people think we will, that will be the reason.

I am not trying to pessimistic (I know I cannot compete with AJ in that category!). I'm just wondering who are the raw talents on this squad who are going to come back next year, be much better, and take us to the next level. They might be there and I hope they are. But our expectations should be realistic. (And no, I am not trying to give Kodiak a pass. These are his recruits, after all.)

EDIT: I forgot to add that Olsen needs to be locked in the weight room all summer. If he were less soft he could be much more effective.

[concerned]

In the schaudenfreude dept., Rutgers is losing to Louisville 92-31, with one second left.

[concerned]

I am not trying to pessimistic (I know I cannot compete with AJ in that category!). I'm just wondering who are the raw talents on this squad who are going to come back next year, be much better, and take us to the next level. They might be there and I hope they are. But our expectations should be realistic. (And no, I am not trying to give Kodiak a pass. These are his recruits, after all.)

EDIT: I forgot to add that Olsen needs to be locked in the weight room all summer. If he were less soft he could be much more effective.

Olsen also needs to remove the frying pans from his hands and not tie his shoes together.

[Solon]

Olsen also needs to remove the frying pans from his hands and not tie his shoes together.

Well that was embarrassing.

Loveridge was 0-6.
Wright was 1-8.
AZ shot 53% from the field.
Utes shot 25.5%.

[LA Ute]

Well that was embarrassing.

Loveridge was 0-6.
Wright was 1-8.
AZ shot 53% from the field.
Utes shot 25.5%.

Arizona is not that much better than us, but they were today. This was bad.

[U-Ute]

Arizona is not that much better than us, but they were today. This was bad.

That was a first rate ass whipping.

I hope the guys remember it this summer.

[Utah]

I am not trying to pessimistic (I know I cannot compete with AJ in that category!). I'm just wondering who are the raw talents on this squad who are going to come back next year, be much better, and take us to the next level. They might be there and I hope they are. But our expectations should be realistic. (And no, I am not trying to give Kodiak a pass. These are his recruits, after all.)

EDIT: I forgot to add that Olsen needs to be locked in the weight room all summer. If he were less soft he could be much more effective.

I really think we need to remember that we are still rebuilding. Coach K saw this team and thought we had no shot at the tourney so he scheduled our pathetic OOC schedule.

While I love Loveridge and Wright, they aren't the top two players on a PAC-12 title contending team. They are the third and fourth. They are the top two players on an amazing MWC team.

The good news is, Chapman and Kuzma should be better than Loveridge and Wright before they leave, and hopefully this JC kid and Wright will get to their level. So, we are headed in the right direction.

What Coach K and these boys have accomplished this year is flat out amazing. Hats off to them.

[LA Ute]

I really think we need to remember that we are still rebuilding. Coach K saw this team and thought we had no shot at the tourney so he scheduled our pathetic OOC schedule.

While I love Loveridge and Wright, they aren't the top two players on a PAC-12 title contending team. They are the third and fourth. They are the top two players on an amazing MWC team.

The good news is, Chapman and Kuzma should be better than Loveridge and Wright before they leave, and hopefully this JC kid and Wright will get to their level. So, we are headed in the right direction.

What Coach K and these boys have accomplished this year is flat out amazing. Hats off to them.

Yes, it's important to remember that we are overachievers this season and really just need better players. They're coming, I hope.

[SeattleUte]

Now who's the pessimist!?!?!

Honestly, getting flogged by the #1 team in the nation less than 24 hours after a hard fought victory over UW does very little to dampen my enthusiasm for next year.

1. I love Taylor. Our best defender and best shooter. Yes, he's a midget, but he's our midget, goshdarnit.

2. Wright is not going pro this year unless he gets disastrous advice. He needs to spend all summer learning one thing: hitting a wide-open three pointer. If he can just reliably hit that pretty easy shot, it unclogs our offense completely. Arizona had a great defensive gameplan for us today - ferociously attack the screen and roll with both defenders knowing that (a) we don't have screeners who can catch the ball and score and (b) we don't have shooters who will punish us for double-teaming. If Wright can learn to hit open 3s, our offense will open up for everybody.

3. Ute fans are down on JLover, but I don't understand why - he has improved his shooting this year and is still a great rebounder for his size. He needs to work on his 3s, but what will really help Jordan next year is (a) not playing so many minutes and (b) having other options on offense.

4. i thought Batshit had a great year. But I also think he has peaked. He is what he is at this point. Olsen may improve some (I actually liked his defense early in the game), but he's got a limited ceiling too.

5. Onwas should watch tape of every small forward who has ever played for the Spurs. They have two skills (a) defense - check, and (b) ability to hit corner threes - no check. Larry K shouldn't let Onwas do anything over the summer other than shoot corner 3s. (I know that corner 3s in college are the same distance, but they are still the most efficient shot outside of dunks and layups).

6. I think Ogbe has the best chance to make a leap next year.

7-13. Not much to see here.

Finally a decent post from you! Law of averages I guess.

[LA Ute]

I'll continue asking myself hard questions, testing my own red-lensed glasses. Maybe the only reason Loveridge underperforms so often is that he is out of position and hasn't got the right teammates. More and more, however, that is sounding like an excuse. Are there examples of other players who underperformed for similar reasons and later broke out as stars?

[Utah]

I'll continue asking myself hard questions, testing my own red-lensed glasses. Maybe the only reason Loveridge underperforms so often is that he is out of position and hasn't got the right teammates. More and more, however, that is sounding like an excuse. Are there examples of other players who underperformed for similar reasons and later broke out as stars?

If he continually underperforms, maybe we are expecting too much out of him?

[SeattleUte]

I'll continue asking myself hard questions, testing my own red-lensed glasses. Maybe the only reason Loveridge underperforms so often is that he is out of position and hasn't got the right teammates. More and more, however, that is sounding like an excuse. Are there examples of other players who underperformed for similar reasons and later broke out as stars?

LA my friend, all due respect, this is crazy talk. The man averaged 15.2 PPG and. 7.3 rpg and played hard on defense, for the majority of the season against brutal competition. The team was competitive in every game until today for good reasons and he was one of the two biggest. You need to be patient with this sophomore and enjoy his journey. We've not had many sophomores as good as him, but we've seen Ute improve hugely through their senior season. We're lucky to have him. Like the realist Applejack said.

[hostile]

LA my friend, all due respect, this is crazy talk. The man averaged 15.2 PPG and. 7.3 rpg and played hard on defense, for the majority of the season against brutal competition. The team was competitive in every game until today for good reasons and he was one of the two biggest. You need to be patient with this sophomore and enjoy his journey. We've not had many sophomores as good as him, but we've seen Ute improve hugely through their senior season. We're lucky to have him. Like the realist Applejack said.

I was talking with a buddy of mine (former player, good friends with several current coaches) who essentially said the same thing. There are certainly deficiencies in his game but he and I also agree that we are lucky to have him.

[LA Ute]

LA my friend, all due respect, this is crazy talk. The man averaged 15.2 PPG and. 7.3 rpg and played hard on defense, for the majority of the season against brutal competition. The team was competitive in every game until today for good reasons and he was one of the two biggest. You need to be patient with this sophomore and enjoy his journey. We've not had many sophomores as good as him, but we've seen Ute improve hugely through their senior season. We're lucky to have him. Like the realist Applejack said.

I am glad he is a Ute, we are lucky to have him, and I hope he'll improve. Utah may be right, maybe we are expecting too much of him. I am just thinking back to past great Ute players who started as freshmen and sophomores and did not regularly disappear in key games. Newlin, Vranes, Van Horn, Miller, Bogut, for example. Maybe it's unfair to compare JL to them. I'm just trying to be realistic about what to expect in the future.

[UBlender]

LA my friend, all due respect, this is crazy talk. The man averaged 15.2 PPG and. 7.3 rpg and played hard on defense, for the majority of the season against brutal competition. The team was competitive in every game until today for good reasons and he was one of the two biggest. You need to be patient with this sophomore and enjoy his journey. We've not had many sophomores as good as him, but we've seen Ute improve hugely through their senior season. We're lucky to have him. Like the realist Applejack said.

The backlash against Jordan has been disappointing. If you don't like LA's comments then you would hate what many on other message boards and twitter are saying. I found it a little funny that our big three were all abysmal today, but only Loveridge is drawing criticism from the internet crowd.

Jordan is not above reproach. He's not Andre or Alex or Keith or Andrew. He is a skilled player, but in the PAC 12 he should be more of a third option than a go-to guy. Utah has had to make him a go-to guy too often in the last two years than it should have. I think that is the source of a lot of the angst--he is often used as (and tries to be) a go-to guy when in reality he is a second or third banana at this level. This causes a lot of confusion and frustration over whether or not our go-to guy should struggle this much in certain games.

He's just a good player and is still young. He'll be fine, especially if people can learn to adjust their expectations. He's Brandon Jessie or Hanno, as opposed to Keith Van Horn or Andre Miller.

[Applejack]

I am glad he is a Ute, we are lucky to have him, and I hope he'll improve. Utah may be right, maybe we are expecting too much of him. I am just thinking back to past great Ute players who started as freshmen and sophomores and did not regularly disappear in key games. Newlin, Vranes, Van Horn, Miller, Bogut, for example. Maybe it's unfair to compare JL to them. I'm just trying to be realistic about what to expect in the future.

SeattleUte, the sage, and I, the realist, agree on this: JLover is a great player, but he's not an NBA player. Comparing him to guys who were high lotto picks? Craycray. If he had played for the final four team, he would have been a 6th-7th man. That's not a knock on Jordan, that's a tip-o-the-hat to 1997-98. He is asked to do too much on this team, but he does it pretty well. He has been our leader this year, despite being our 2nd best player - as Jordan goes, we go.

[sancho]

SeattleUte, the sage, and I, the realist, agree on this: JLover is a great player, but he's not an NBA player. Comparing him to guys who were high lotto picks? Craycray. If he had played for the final four team, he would have been a 6th-7th man. That's not a knock on Jordan, that's a tip-o-the-hat to 1997-98. He is asked to do too much on this team, but he does it pretty well. He has been our leader this year, despite being our 2nd best player - as Jordan goes, we go.

Agree. He has no "A" level skills. Shooting, ball handling, rebounding, defense, passing, etc - all in the "B" or "C" range. His effort and attitude are both solid "As" though. He never complains and works really hard.

So glad he's a Ute. He could have taken the easy way out and averaged 25-10 in the WCC like some other local pansies. Someone mentioned a best-in-state debate with BYU fans. Clearly, the answer is Delon. But who is second? Is it collinsworth, loveridge, or haws? A good case can be made for any of them.

[Applejack]

Agree. He has no "A" level skills. Shooting, ball handling, rebounding, defense, passing, etc - all in the "B" or "C" range. His effort and attitude are both solid "As" though. He never complains and works really hard.

So glad he's a Ute. He could have taken the easy way out and averaged 25-10 in the WCC like some other local pansies. Someone mentioned a best-in-state debate with BYU fans. Clearly, the answer is Delon. But who is second? Is it collinsworth, loveridge, or haws? A good case can be made for any of them.

I would rank them accordingly: (1) Delon, (2) Collinsworth, (3) Haws, (4) JLover. I could argue Loveridge as #3, but I think Delon and Collinsworth are clearly the top two in the state.

[sancho]

I would rank them accordingly: (1) Delon, (2) Collinsworth, (3) Haws, (4) JLover. I could argue Loveridge as #3, but I think Delon and Collinsworth are clearly the top two in the state.

Ok. That is fair as long as there is a big gap between #1 and #2, a decent sized gap between #2 and #3, and a tiny little mini gap between #3 and #4.

[Applejack]

Ok. That is fair as long as there is a big gap between #1 and #2, a decent sized gap between #2 and #3, and a tiny little mini gap between #3 and #4.

I'd sign on with that. Haws v. Loveridge is a weird comparison because they are such different players-one is an elite scorer who does little else, one is a solid rebounder, defender, and scorer, but is not elite at any one thing.

Wright v. anyone is also a weird comparison because he has such a unique game, but he's also clearly better than any of the others. It will be interesting to see how Collinsworth develops (he's a Sophomore) - he's played really well for a returned missionary, but you have to hope his knee troubles aren't career threatening.

[U-Ute]

I am glad he is a Ute, we are lucky to have him, and I hope he'll improve. Utah may be right, maybe we are expecting too much of him. I am just thinking back to past great Ute players who started as freshmen and sophomores and did not regularly disappear in key games. Newlin, Vranes, Van Horn, Miller, Bogut, for example. Maybe it's unfair to compare JL to them. I'm just trying to be realistic about what to expect in the future.

All of which were long time NBA players. I think Loveridge is a really good college player, but I don't think he's NBA material. If he had 3 more inches or was a bit quicker maybe.

I hope this post pisses him off and he proves me wrong.

[Rocker Ute]

I think a big contributor to the Loveridge fade was that teams had him pretty well scouted and he couldn't counter at the end of the season. Everyone knew to get their hands out and down by his waist when he was driving the lane and they could inevitably strip the ball. That eliminated much of his inside presence. He also seems to be the player on the team that gets frustrated easily... teams played him really tough early on knowing they could take him out of the game.

Since we are comparing to in state players, Haws has a similar problem in that if his defender plays him aggressively and bumps him a lot it throws him off his game pretty easy. That was the strategy Utah had when BYU came to town and it worked.

So for me when I look at Jordan's challenges they all seem to be problems that can be worked out over the summer and he'll come back stronger than ever. In fact, I think the fixes to his game including the inconsistency might be an easier fix than Delon picking up a mid and long range jumper. It is also probably easier than Brandon Taylor growing 5 inches too.

Finally keep in mind what most freshman and sophomore phenoms have around them to help them succeed... other good and season players. Jordan came onto a squad where he was the best player by far the second he walked on campus, and not because he was Jabari Parker, it was because our team was that bad. Imagine the difference in practice of posting up on a decent PF teammate who strips the ball out from him and tells him to keep that weak sh** out of there.

So I remain hopeful for Loveridge, I don't think we've seen his upside and he'll get there if he puts the time and effort in to get there.

[sancho]

I'd sign on with that. Haws v. Loveridge is a weird comparison because they are such different players-one is an elite scorer who does little else, one is a solid rebounder, defender, and scorer, but is not elite at any one thing.


Also, Haws' one elite skill can be taken away by above average defenders. He'll go off for 40 against Portland, but he couldn't do it against Cedric Martin.

At this point, Loverdige is who he is in terms of athleticism, explosiveness, rebounding, and ball handling. But if he just improve his FG% (his 10-15 ft jump shot) and 3Pt%, he could be an absolute monster. He's so long that he can usually get his shot off. If he could get his 3Pt% up to 33-35%, he would be a real headache for the opposition, especially with all the other things he does. It would do wonders for the offense. Shooting is one area where it's actually is possible (though not easy) to actually improve during an off season.

As for Collinsworth, I won't mind too much if he never gets back to full form. The good news is that he probably won't play again until the WCC season, so he'll miss all their important games next year. Remember when West High beat him for the state championship? Awesome.

[Utah]

I would rank them accordingly: (1) Delon, (2) Collinsworth, (3) Haws, (4) JLover. I could argue Loveridge as #3, but I think Delon and Collinsworth are clearly the top two in the state.

Look at stats here:

#1 - 16 pts, 7 rebs, 2.5 steals, 1 block, 5 assists, 78% FT%, 23% 3pt%, 57% fg%, 2 TO's
#2 - 23 pts, 3 rebs, 1 steal, 0 blocks, 1.5 assists, 88% FT%, 41% 3pt%, 46% fg%, 2 TO's
#3 - 15 pts, 7 rebs, 1 steal, 0.5 blocks, 2.5 assists, 80% FT%, 30% 3pt%, 42% fg%, 2 TO's
#4 - 14 pts, 8 rebs, 2 steals, 0.5 blocks, 5 assists, 57% FT%, 36% 3pt%, 49% fg%, 3 TO's

I think most people would initially be impressed with player #2, but looking further, seeing his rebs, blocks, assists and TO's wouldn't take him.

So, it comes down to players 1, 3, and 4. All very comparable. When you consider that Wright plays in the PAC-12 and Collinsworth plays in the WCC, then that gives Wright a big advantage over Collinsworth (Loveridge as well).

I don't think any intelligent person would disagree that Wright is the best player in the state.

So that leaves these two players:

#3 - 15 pts, 7 rebs, 1 steal, 0.5 blocks, 2.5 assists, 80% FT%, 30% 3pt%, 42% fg%, 2 TO's
#4 - 14 pts, 8 rebs, 2 steals, 0.5 blocks, 5 assists, 57% FT%, 36% 3pt%, 49% fg%, 3 TO's

So, you are looking at better steals and assists for #4. The rest is about equal. So, Collinsworth and Loveridge are essentially equal players. Throw in the WCC vs PAC-12, and Loveridge suddenly becomes the second best player in the state. Could you imagine the numbers that Loveridge would put up in the WCC?

Finally, Loveridge is 6 ft 6 210 and plays as a PF/SF in the PAC-12. Collinsworth is 6 ft 6 215 and plays as a SG in the WCC. Again, this just shows you the difference in competition that they face.

It's a funny dynamic we are in with BYU now. BYU will/should always have a better record than us overall. BUT, we should blow the doors off their boat every time we play them from now on. It's not really fair to compare players anymore, because odds are the Utah guys (especially if their stats are comparable to the BYU guys) are much better, and much more impressive considering the level of competition they face, week in,week out.

So, I guess my point is, I think the two best players in the state are Wright, Loveridge, Collinsworth, then a bunch of other players.

[sancho]

Could you imagine the numbers that Loveridge would put up in the WCC?


Sometimes I wonder what kind of numbers I could put up in the WCC.

[LA Ute]

The backlash against Jordan has been disappointing. If you don't like LA's comments then you would hate what many on other message boards and twitter are saying. I found it a little funny that our big three were all abysmal today, but only Loveridge is drawing criticism from the internet crowd.

Just to be clear, I am not bashing him, just wondering how realistic everyone's expectations are for him. He'll always be very important to this team (that's why so many people are disappointed in him). For example, I don't seen anyone coming up who's going to take away Jordan's minutes.


Jordan is not above reproach. He's not Andre or Alex or Keith or Andrew. He is a skilled player, but in the PAC 12 he should be more of a third option than a go-to guy. Utah has had to make him a go-to guy too often in the last two years than it should have. I think that is the source of a lot of the angst--he is often used as (and tries to be) a go-to guy when in reality he is a second or third banana at this level. This causes a lot of confusion and frustration over whether or not our go-to guy should struggle this much in certain games.

He's just a good player and is still young. He'll be fine, especially if people can learn to adjust their expectations. He's Brandon Jessie or Hanno, as opposed to Keith Van Horn or Andre Miller.

Agreed, but I'd put him a notch or two above Hanno and Brandon.


SeattleUte, the sage, and I, the realist, agree on this: JLover is a great player, but he's not an NBA player. Comparing him to guys who were high lotto picks? Craycray. If he had played for the final four team, he would have been a 6th-7th man. That's not a knock on Jordan, that's a tip-o-the-hat to 1997-98. He is asked to do too much on this team, but he does it pretty well. He has been our leader this year, despite being our 2nd best player - as Jordan goes, we go.

I was making the comparison because so many people expect him to carry the team the way those players did. I don't think there's reason to believe he's ever going to do that, but I'll be delighted if he does become that player.


All of which were long time NBA players. I think Loveridge is a really good college player, but I don't think he's NBA material. If he had 3 more inches or was a bit quicker maybe.

I hope this post pisses him off and he proves me wrong.

So do I!


I think a big contributor to the Loveridge fade was that teams had him pretty well scouted and he couldn't counter at the end of the season. Everyone knew to get their hands out and down by his waist when he was driving the lane and they could inevitably strip the ball. That eliminated much of his inside presence. He also seems to be the player on the team that gets frustrated easily... teams played him really tough early on knowing they could take him out of the game.

So for me when I look at Jordan's challenges they all seem to be problems that can be worked out over the summer and he'll come back stronger than ever. In fact, I think the fixes to his game including the inconsistency might be an easier fix than Delon picking up a mid and long range jumper. It is also probably easier than Brandon Taylor growing 5 inches too.

Finally keep in mind what most freshman and sophomore phenoms have around them to help them succeed... other good and season players. Jordan came onto a squad where he was the best player by far the second he walked on campus, and not because he was Jabari Parker, it was because our team was that bad. Imagine the difference in practice of posting up on a decent PF teammate who strips the ball out from him and tells him to keep that weak sh** out of there.

So I remain hopeful for Loveridge, I don't think we've seen his upside and he'll get there if he puts the time and effort in to get there.

Good post. I'm going to keep a plate of crow in the freezer and will take it out and eat it publicly on this board if that happens.

[concerned]

Just to be clear, I am not bashing him, just wondering how realistic everyone's expectations are for him. He'll always be very important to this team (that's why so many people are disappointed in him). For example, I don't seen anyone coming up who's going to take away Jordan's minutes.



Agreed, but I'd put him a notch or two above Hanno and Brandon.



I was making the comparison because so many people expect him to carry the team the way those players did. I don't think there's reason to believe he's ever going to do that, but I'll be delighted if he does become that player.



So do I!



Good post. I'm going to keep a plate of crow in the freezer and will take it out and eat it publicly on this board if that happens.


Somebody will take some of Loveridge's minutes. If Reyes plays the four (and Kuzma and Chapman), that leaves Loveridge, Onwas, Tucker, Obge and Fields to play the 2/3. Even assuming Loverdige plays both the 3 and the 4, he is going to share, unless somebody leaves. He needs to lose some of hiis minutes; both he and Wright played too many.\

P.s. He is better than Brandon Jessie, but he is not close to Hanno, IMHO.

[Applejack]

Somebody will take some of Loveridge's minutes. If Reyes plays the four (and Kuzma and Chapman), that leaves Loveridge, Onwas, Tucker, Obge and Fields to play the 2/3. Even assuming Loverdige plays both the 3 and the 4, he is going to share, unless somebody leaves. He needs to lose some of hiis minutes; both he and Wright played too many.\

P.s. He is better than Brandon Jessie, but he is not close to Hanno, IMHO.

Absolutely right. Hanno got some NBA time, Jordan won't, unfortunately. B Jessie was a better shooter than JLover, but I think Jordan has him everywhere else.

[LA Ute]

Absolutely right. Hanno got some NBA time, Jordan won't, unfortunately. B Jessie was a better shooter than JLover, but I think Jordan has him everywhere else.

Not to quibble, but Hanno didn't start as a freshman and sophomore and wasn't as important to the team as Jordan is asked to be. I agree that Hanno had more overall hoops talent than Jordan does right now. I was just making a comparison based on role/importance to the team.

[concerned]

Not to quibble, but Hanno didn't start as a freshman and sophomore and wasn't as important to the team as Jordan is asked to be. I agree that Hanno had more overall hoops talent than Jordan does right now. I was just making a comparison based on role/importance to the team.

If Jordan had been on Hanno's team, he would not have been as important as Hanno was.

[LA Ute]

If Jordan had been on Hanno's team, he would not have been as important as Hanno was.

Agreed. I loved Hanno.

[SeattleUte]

To compare Loveridge to Bogut is the definition of crazy expectations. On the other hand, it's easy to forget that other players LA listed had ups and downs. Vranes/Chanbers/Mannion didn't even get an NCAA bid V/C's junior season. Andre Miller improved substantially every year. And all those guys played against much weaker competition. I wish there was an Internet the night Wake Forest & Duncan came into the Huntsman Center and handled the Utes with Van Horn a senior and Miller a sophomore. I'd quote from some posts.

If we wanted to keep recruiting Boguts some people shouldn't have been so quick to turn on Majerus.

[LA Ute]

To compare Loveridge to Bogut is the definition of crazy expectations. On the other hand, it's easy to forget that other players LA listed had ups and downs. Vranes/Chanbers/Mannion didn't even get an NCAA bid V/C's junior season. Andre Miller improved substantially every year. And all those guys played against much weaker competition. I wish there was an Internet the night Wake Forest & Duncan came into the Huntsman Center and handled the Utes with Van Horn a senior and Miller a sophomore. I'd quote from some posts.

If we wanted to keep recruiting Boguts some people shouldn't have been so quick to turn on Majerus.

I think most people here have come to a consensus that Jordan is not the guy who is going to lead the Utes back to greatness. He has a chance to be part of a Ute team or two that could do that. My point in bringing up Newlin, Vranes, Van Horn et al. was that Jordan is not like them; no one ever was making excuses for them disappearing for entire halves, having a bad attitude, and so forth. Most people here agree. My hope is that Jordan will become like those former players.

I do recall the difference between Vranes-Chambers as juniors and as seniors. It was remarkable. Here's hoping we see something like that happen with JL and Delon W.

SU, you're not still promoting the "Majerus was run out of town by ungrateful fans" myth, are you?

[SeattleUte]

I think most people here have come to a consensus that Jordan is not the guy who is going to lead the Utes back to greatness. He has a chance to be part of a Ute team or two that could do that. My point in bringing up Newlin, Vranes, Van Horn et al. was that Jordan is not like them; no one ever was making excuses for them disappearing for entire halves, having a bad attitude, and so forth. Most people here agree. My hope is that Jordan will become like those former players.

I do recall the difference between Vranes-Chambers as juniors and as seniors. It was remarkable. Here's hoping we see something like that happen with JL and Delon W.

SU, you're not still promoting the "Majerus was run out of town by ungrateful fans" myth, are you?

Andre Miller was not being penciled for the NBA, much less a lottery pick his sophomore year.

Really, I don't want to be a pious ass. But I have to say I have a problem writing off this 19 year old kid's NBA dream in a public place, even on this board. If I were his dad I'd really be steamed at some people here. What do these words cost us, nothing. What's the point of these criticisms other than to vent middle aged fans' spleen. But they probably matter to him though I hope he'd put them in perspective.

I like him a lot. I've said why he's a good player particularly as a sophomore. Just his stats are impressive. His rebounding and defense speak to his character. I like his on-court demeanor. I like the fact that he came to Utah when Utah was a laughing stock. I say let's see what happens and give him the benefit of the doubt.

[Utah]

Andre Miller was not being penciled for the NBA, much less a lottery pick his sophomore year.

Really, I don't want to be a pious ass. But I have to say I have a problem writing off this 19 year old kid's NBA dream in a public place, even on this board. If I were his dad I'd really be steamed at some people here. What do these words cost us, nothing. What's the point of these criticisms other than to vent middle aged fans' spleen. But they probably matter to him though I hope he'd put them in perspective.

I like him a lot. I've said why he's a good player particularly as a sophomore. Just his stats are impressive. His rebounding and defense speak to his character. I like his on-court demeanor. I like the fact that he came to Utah when Utah was a laughing stock. I say let's see what happens and give him the benefit of the doubt.

I think his opinion is ok. BUT, the important thing is to remember that it is his opinion. Right now, I'm not sure Loveridge or Wright can expect to have any sort of careers in the NBA. Both have NBA skills and both have HUGE weaknesses that will keep them out of the NBA.

The good news is, both players have the ability to get better. Their holes aren't unfixable holes. Coach K and crew are amazing coaches. If they keep working their tails off, Utah will improve immensely, and both could play in the NBA and leave legacies of the foundation of the PAC-12 Utes.

Love them both, and am so excited for the NIT to start to get some more Running Utes before we hit the dreaded sports summer break.

[LA Ute]

Andre Miller was not being penciled for the NBA, much less a lottery pick his sophomore year.

I like [Loveridge] a lot. I've said why he's a good player particularly as a sophomore. Just his stats are impressive. His rebounding and defense speak to his character. I like his on-court demeanor. I like the fact that he came to Utah when Utah was a laughing stock. I say let's see what happens and give him the benefit of the doubt.

Everyone knew Andre Miller was going to be special when he was a sophomore. His points per game increased from 10 to 14 to 16 over the three years, but otherwise it is hard to find any significant statistical difference between his sophomore year and his junior/senior years: http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/utah/andre-miller

Just to be clear, my original post was about the need to be realistic about next season -- to "tap the brakes," as SCP might say. Our entire 2014 team, minus only Lenz and plus Kuzma and Chapman, is returning. So what ceiling does each player have?

I love our coach and our players, but the team is one that Kodiak has brilliantly cobbled together. Every key player has some significant limitation. None (so far) is "the entire package." That's OK, it's a testament both to Kodiak and to the team's willingness to be coached and work hard. LK says over and over that it's the best group he's ever coached without a turd (his word) in the bunch.

Next year we can be sure they'll all work as hard as they have this year, that Kodiak and crew have learned how to work with them, that Kuzma and Chapman will find their places and may well contribute a lot. I think Kuzma may well start. With their work ethic Loveridge and Wright will have new skills and will sharpen the ones they have. (Loveridge lost 20+ pounds between this season and last -- that alone shows how hard he is willing to work.) We don't know how much they will improve.

Again, I'm just saying (as you often have) that we ought to enjoy the ride and not expect an Elite 8 appearance next year. I think it will be a great year and it's a great time to be a Ute basketball fan.

[Utah]

I think Utah will make the tourney for the next couple of years, and it might not be until Loveridge graduates that we are finally deep enough to start winning tourney games and competing for PAC-12 titles.

[LA Ute]

This will cheer up even the most pessimistic Ute fans. A really great and informative interview with Phil Cullen, who comes across as a very impressive analyst:

http://espn.kall700sports.com/phil-cullen-utes-dir-of-player-dev-camps-3-14-14/

Some good info about the NIT, how the team came together in the early going, who the team leaders are, the new basketball facility, who gets to come watch practice. He's very articulate. Glad he's on the Utah staff.

[U-Ute]

I like him a lot. I've said why he's a good player particularly as a sophomore. Just his stats are impressive. His rebounding and defense speak to his character. I like his on-court demeanor. I like the fact that he came to Utah when Utah was a laughing stock. I say let's see what happens and give him the benefit of the doubt.

There is no doubt in my mind Jordon has a high basketball IQ. He does have limitations that he needs to find ways to overcome.

[U-Ute]

It is interesting to see that Colorado didn't fare much better than we did.

Arizona brought their big boy jocks to the tournament.

[USS Utah]

If he continually underperforms, maybe we are expecting too much out of him?

Or maybe he's a true-soph.

[USS Utah]

I am glad he is a Ute, we are lucky to have him, and I hope he'll improve. Utah may be right, maybe we are expecting too much of him. I am just thinking back to past great Ute players who started as freshmen and sophomores and did not regularly disappear in key games. Newlin, Vranes, Van Horn, Miller, Bogut, for example. Maybe it's unfair to compare JL to them. I'm just trying to be realistic about what to expect in the future.

The players you mention didn't play the same level of competition.

[USS Utah]

I get a kick out of fans -- it's not just Ute fans, right -- who are quick to write players off.

[LA Ute]

I get a kick out of fans -- it's not just Ute fans, right -- who are quick to write players off.

If you're talking about me your misunderstood. Based on the available evidence, I'm trying to prognosticate a bit about next year's team. Who's going to step up, and what's the basis for thinking so?

[SeattleUte]

If you're talking about me your misunderstood. Based on the available evidence, I'm trying to prognosticate a bit about next year's team. Who's going to step up, and what's the basis for thinking so?

:backpedal:

[SeattleUte]

The players you mention didn't play the same level of competition.

Correct.

[SeattleUte]

Does anyone besides me remember how angry and frustrated we all were when Vranes and Chambers as juniors failed even to qualify for the NCAA playoffs, in the WAC, and were twice annihilated by BYU (Ainge)? they redeemed themselves the next year and went on to become lottery picks.

[LA Ute]

:backpedal:

C'mon, read my posts. I'm talking about what we should look forward to and I think we should be realistic about where the current talent can take us. Lots of people here have predicted that we are going to go to the Sweet 16 next year simply because this year the Utes came close in many games against top-flight competition. You're Mr. "enjoy the ride." Is that still your position? Or do you really think we are on the verge of PAC-12 glory? I would rather give the program a couple more years, progressing at its current rate.

My guess is that by the time Jordan is a senior this team may have the talent and experience to do some damage in the Dance. He will be a significant contributor to that effort as long as he can learn not to disappear for entire halves, or even entire games, something the other players we have mentioned never did -- or, if they did disappear they didn't do it repeatedly.

Your claim that the higher level of competition Jordan faces excuses his lapses in performance doesn't help your argument much. If you are right, that means that those former players were not capable of playing in the PAC-12 any better than Jordan has. It also means (a) that Kodiak needs to recruit even better and to build more talented teams than have ever existed at Utah, because (b) Jordan is a WAC-level talent. Surely you aren't saying that?

[sancho]

I get a kick out of fans -- it's not just Ute fans, right -- who are quick to write players off.

What does "write players off" mean? I'm a Loveridge fan and believer who does not think Jordan will pay in the nba. Have I written him off? I do think he's great, and he can get even better.

[Utah]

I get a kick out of fans -- it's not just Ute fans, right -- who are quick to write players off.

LOL. I get a kick out of fans that don't comprehend what was written. Who has written Loveridge off? Who has said anything negative about him?

[SoCalPat]

OK, I'm a day or two late to this discussion and I've made my points about Jordan, who seems to be dominating this topic. Now I'm biased (which is why my opinion here will appear spirited), cuz Brandon was a good acquaintance when we were at the U. and his pops (ex-NFL WR Ron Jessie, who played for my Bills when I was a kid -- RIP) is a class guy. But there is no way Jordan is better now than Brandon Jessie ever was. That's crack-cocaine batshit crazy talk.

First off, they don't even play the same position. Jess was a natural 2 who had crazy enough athleticism to get an NFL tryout after college. He's probably the best glass-crashing guard Utah has ever had (he's the only guard ever at Utah to rank top 10 in single-season offensive rebounds) and could finish in traffic (shot 47 percent from the field without a lot of 3s, which is pretty good for a guard). Finally, go back and see how Jess single-handedly destroyed UNM in the 1995 WAC semis. That game was in the Pit, Utah won by 36 (which I believe is still UNM's worst loss at home) and Jessie scores 28.

[SeattleUte]

OK, I'm a day or two late to this discussion and I've made my points about Jordan, who seems to be dominating this topic. Now I'm biased (which is why my opinion here will appear spirited), cuz Brandon was a good acquaintance when we were at the U. and his pops (ex-NFL WR Ron Jessie, who played for my Bills when I was a kid -- RIP) is a class guy. But there is no way Jordan is better now than Brandon Jessie ever was. That's crack-cocaine batshit crazy talk.

First off, they don't even play the same position. Jess was a natural 2 who had crazy enough athleticism to get an NFL tryout after college. He's probably the best glass-crashing guard Utah has ever had (he's the only guard ever at Utah to rank top 10 in single-season offensive rebounds) and could finish in traffic (shot 47 percent from the field without a lot of 3s, which is pretty good for a guard). Finally, go back and see how Jess single-handedly destroyed UNM in the 1995 WAC semis. That game was in the Pit, Utah won by 36 (which I believe is still UNM's worst loss at home) and Jessie scores 28.

Brandon Jessie destroyed New Mexico. That phrase speaks volumes. This team destroyed Pac 12 champ UCLA and should have beaten Arizona. Those old Utah teams did not face the same challenges this one does. Those comparisons are not helpful.

[USS Utah]

LOL. I get a kick out of fans that don't comprehend what was written. Who has written Loveridge off? Who has said anything negative about him?

Maybe no on here is writing him off, but there are a few who seem to have decided that he is going to be limited.

[USS Utah]

I remember seeing John Stockton play as a rookie for the Jazz, in the old Salt Palace. Right away you could see he was going to be a very good player but, at the same time, I didn't know he was going to be a hall of famer.

[LA Ute]

Maybe no on here is writing him off, but there are a few who seem to have decided that he is going to be limited.

I can't speak for others. My view is that he may well turn out to be a great one but that Utah fans should keep their expectations modest for now.

[SoCalPat]

Brandon Jessie destroyed New Mexico. That phrase speaks volumes. This team destroyed Pac 12 champ UCLA and should have beaten Arizona. Those old Utah teams did not face the same challenges this one does. Those comparisons are not helpful.

You're full of bad comparisons in this entire thread. Your Chambers/Vranes one from earlier wouldn't have happened then if the field was the size it was today.

Utah beat UCLA by 5, at home. A very good win, but a galaxy from "destroyed." Should have beaten Arizona? We should have beaten a lot of teams this year.

[SeattleUte]

You're full of bad comparisons in this entire thread. Your Chambers/Vranes one from earlier wouldn't have happened then if the field was the size it was today.

Utah beat UCLA by 5, at home. A very good win, but a galaxy from "destroyed." Should have beaten Arizona? We should have beaten a lot of teams this year.

In 1980 the field was 48 and the Ute were tied for second in the WAC and 18-10. They would not have made the NCAA tournament today with that. Ridiculous comparisons. Look who's talking. New Mexico is not UCLA, and when Jessie was a sophomore he was a juco.

[LA Ute]

Kodiak's post-game interview right after the Arizona game:

http://pac-12.com/videos/2014-pac-12-mens-basketball-tournament-postgame-interview-utahs-larry-krystkowiak-building-program

Worth watching.

[U-Ute]

Kodiak's post-game interview right after the Arizona game:

http://pac-12.com/videos/2014-pac-12-mens-basketball-tournament-postgame-interview-utahs-larry-krystkowiak-building-program

Worth watching.

I love how little "coach speak" you get from K. He his honest, but concentrates on the positives.

[DrumNFeather]

I love how little "coach speak" you get from K. He his honest, but concentrates on the positives.

I also appreciate that he gives credit where credit is due, both to the opponents, and to our players (both good and bad).