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Utah
04-04-2014, 04:32 PM
Wilson steps up in the pocket, 60 yard TD to Dres. Porter in coverage.

Utah
04-04-2014, 04:34 PM
Schulz, two 3 and outs, 1-4, 2 yards first series, 7 yards second.

Utah
04-04-2014, 04:36 PM
FG team #39. One block. One fugly kick. 4 straight makes.

Utah
04-04-2014, 04:40 PM
FG team #86. Perfect. No misses.

Utah
04-04-2014, 04:46 PM
Manning time.

15 yd comp to #15.
7 yd to #10
#21 fumble.
9 yd comp to #10
9 yd comp #80
7 yd TD run #27

Utah
04-04-2014, 04:49 PM
Cox time.

Cox fumbles the snap. Defense recovers.

Incomplete pass. Left receiver out to dry. Defense blew him up. 15 yd penalty.
#22 12 yard run
#33 38 yard TD run.

Utah
04-04-2014, 04:59 PM
Cox gets another series.

#33 1 yard loss
#33 18 yard run. Carried defenders for 5 yards.
Cox incomp pass to #14
15 yard pass to #87
#22 9 yard run - holding on offense
#33 3 yard run
Cox 18 yard run. #14 destroys defender on clean block. Fight breaks out. Offense chants.
15 yard pass to #18. Big hit by the safety.
#22 5 yard loss
Cox incomp pass
Utes on the 8 yard line
Incomp pass
4th down
#86 with the FG

Cox can run. He is accurate but floats passes.

Also, Wilson, Manning and Schulz snap the ball 25-30 secs on the play clock. Cox is in the low teens.

Utah
04-04-2014, 05:06 PM
Wilson back in. Drive starts at Wilson's 1 yard line.

#34 1 yard loss
#34 1 yard gain
Incomp to Dres
Punt

Utah
04-04-2014, 07:25 PM
Wilson drive starts at the 1


#27 7 yard run
#27 3 yard run -FD


#27 1 yard run
Dres with a drop. Hit him in the numbers.
Wilson scrambles #87 with the drop


Schulz drive starts at the 1


#21 9 yard run
#37 3 yard run - FD


#33 2 yard run
Schulz throws low. Incomp
Schulz sacked
Punt

Utah
04-04-2014, 07:26 PM
Scrimmage

Wilson drive starts at Wilson 45 yard line.

#21 5 yard run
#27 10 yard run - FD

Wilson incomp. #80 was open. Bad pass
Wilson deep pass to Dres. PI. - FD

Incomp pass. Thomas destroyed the WR causing the incomp
#34 15 yard run
Wilson 15 yard TD pass to #34
#39 ex pt good

Manning drive starts at the defense 45

#49 5 yard run
#33 5 yard run
Pass to #10 5 yards - FD

manning overthrows #87 open deep
Pass broken up by #23 - holding by offense
#22 10 yard screen, fumbles, offense recovers
Manning income pass, nice throw in between two defenders. Tough play, but the WR should come down with that.
4th down. #86 makes 38 yard FG

Utah
04-04-2014, 07:28 PM
In the 2 minute drill Wilson hit Dres for a 37 yard TD.

It was 5:40 at that time and I had to run. Didn't see Manning and Schulz run the drills.

Utah
04-04-2014, 07:42 PM
Here is my thoughts on the scrimmage:

Again, Wilson is #1 on the depth chart. He runs the offense better, throws the best deep ball, makes good decisions, and runs well. Wilson did a great job moving in the pocket, biding time and making good throws. His accuracy needs to improve still. I'd say right now, we don't have an acceptable #2. There is Manning and Cox, but they are both RS Freshmen.

I'd put Manning #3, Cox #4 and Schulz #5.

This fall, Wilson and Thompson will be #1 and #2. I don't care who wins out, because whoever does, will be really good. Plus, if it's a competition, that will mean we have a really good backup as well. I'd put Manning #3, and Isom redshirts. I'd be surprised if Cox or Schulz do much of anything this fall. IF Cox were willing to move to another position, he is crazy athletic. If he won't move, he will transfer.

Booker is our best RB and it isn't close. Poole is very good, but Booker is special. We are deep at RB.

WR is solid as well. There was a drop in the end zone on a beautiful pass from Manning in between two defenders. A tough play, but one that has to be made to beat the caliber of teams we will face. Also, Dres had a patented ball hit him in the numbers, bounce 10 feet up in the air play. That worries me.

I didn't pay much attention to the defense, but they were shredded by the offenses. I think Wilson scored a TD on every possession but his first one, which I didn't record, but was a first down (FD) then three plays that brought up fourth down.

Lots of pistol formations, lots of two RB (Poole and Booker), and lots of spreading a RB out in the slot with Booker in the backfield. We definitely don't run Oregon's offense, but it is much more Oregon-esque with quick throws to players in space and shots downfield (Wilson is much, much, much better at knowing when to take shots down field and being successful with them. Manning takes a lot of shots, but lots of double teams and overthrows). The offense moved fast. Wilson had the ball snapped most plays before the clock hit 25 secs (another area Wilson was just heads and tails better. He got the offense to the line and the ball snapped very quickly. Quicker by a few seconds than Manning and Schulz, and Cox was very slow, usually snapped the ball at around 15 secs).

It's too bad Justin Thomas isn't two inches taller. If he was, he would be a first round pick. The kid is an animal.

We have two very good kickers.

I didn't watch the defense much. No INT's. Cox fumbled a snap, and either Poole or another back (#22 I think) fumbled away a good screen play.

Utah
04-04-2014, 07:53 PM
Alex Markham posted some stats. Wilson's line:

11-21, 182 yards, 5 TD's. Like I said, he needs to work on his accuracy, but he is heads and shoulders better than any of our other QB's.

chrisrenrut
04-05-2014, 12:54 AM
Thanks for the report. Interesting stuff.

SoCalPat
04-07-2014, 12:37 PM
Alex Markham posted some stats. Wilson's line:

11-21, 182 yards, 5 TD's. Like I said, he needs to work on his accuracy, but he is heads and shoulders better than any of our other QB's.

That's 8.66 YPA (which would have been 15th in FBS last season) and 16.5 YPC (third in FBS). If we're going to throw deep more than most teams, we're also going to throw more incompletions that most teams. I would gladly take Wilson's numbers from this scrimmage, pro-rated over the course of an entire season.

sancho
04-07-2014, 12:40 PM
That's 8.66 YPA (which would have been 15th in FBS last season) and 16.5 YPC (third in FBS). If we're going to throw deep more than most teams, we're also going to throw more incompletions that most teams. I would gladly take Wilson's numbers from this scrimmage, pro-rated over the course of an entire season.


I don't think we went deep successfully all that much. I think it was mostly YAC. When Wilson had a high QB rating last season, it was often due to yards after the catch from Dres. I'm fine with that, of course.

SoCalPat
04-07-2014, 01:20 PM
I don't think we went deep successfully all that much. I think it was mostly YAC. When Wilson had a high QB rating last season, it was often due to yards after the catch from Dres. I'm fine with that, of course.

I can't speak for the scrimmage, but I should probably clarify what I define going deep as, and that's any pass where the ball travels 25 or more yards in the air from the LOS. You also don't need 8-9 of those every game to have a successful deep attack -- 2 or 3 is sufficient, and their impact on the game is maximized if they go for touchdowns. I think in our first six games, we were about on target in that regard. But yes, we also had some great gains that were largely the result of YAC.

U-Ute
04-07-2014, 01:54 PM
I've heard of a few people complaining that Manning didn't get very many snaps.

What say those who were there?

Utah
04-07-2014, 02:39 PM
I've heard of a few people complaining that Manning didn't get very many snaps.

What say those who were there?

I literally posted all the snaps from 4:00 pm until 5:40.

They had even series the first time around. They each had six snaps. Schulz had two 3 and outs, and Manning led a six play TD drive.

One the goal line offense (basically, pinned deep on the one yard line), only Wilson and Schulz took snaps.

On the mid-field situation, Manning took snaps and Schulz did not.

So, it basically was a wash. Here is the real thing going on:

Schulz isn't that good, and Manning is still way too small. Manning has talent, but it is eerie how he looks exactly like Wynn. Small, skinny. I don't think he ever plays for us.

I think Manning will be third string come this fall, behind Wilson and Thompson. Wilson is a lot better than Manning is. I also think that Isom will redshirt, but if both Wilson and Thompson are hurt, I'd see the coaches seriously considering burning Isom's RS vs starting Manning.

Wilson, Thompson and Isom are all very similar QB's. Manning is completely different.

UBlender
04-07-2014, 02:45 PM
I can't speak for the scrimmage, but I should probably clarify what I define going deep as, and that's any pass where the ball travels 25 or more yards in the air from the LOS. You also don't need 8-9 of those every game to have a successful deep attack -- 2 or 3 is sufficient, and their impact on the game is maximized if they go for touchdowns. I think in our first six games, we were about on target in that regard. But yes, we also had some great gains that were largely the result of YAC.

It's largely been forgotten (especially by the anti-Wilson crowd) how explosive the 2013 offense was through six games, even more so when compared to the flaccid 2012 offense. If we take that six game offense as a starting point and make incremental improvements (i.e. cut INTs by 1/3rd, steadier running game) then this team could substantially exceed the expectations of the general population (~5 wins). With the return of Scott and the addition of Booker (by all accounts a better all around RB than anyone Utah had last year) those incremental improvements are well positioned (and that's before you take into account some of the new speed being added to skill positions in Clay and McCormick). The one thing that we had in those six games that will be missing in 2013 is Jake Murphy--he didn't catch nearly enough balls but likely drew enough of the defense to open things up for the WRs. If Tonga and company can be 80% of what Murphy was then the other upgrades in skill positions should be enough to compensate.

jrj84105
04-07-2014, 05:03 PM
I literally posted all the snaps from 4:00 pm until 5:40.

Schulz isn't that good, and Manning is still way too small. Manning has talent, but it is eerie how he looks exactly like Wynn. Small, skinny. I don't think he ever plays for us.

I think Manning will be third string come this fall, behind Wilson and Thompson. Wilson is a lot better than Manning is. I also think that Isom will redshirt, but if both Wilson and Thompson are hurt, I'd see the coaches seriously considering burning Isom's RS vs starting Manning.

Wilson, Thompson and Isom are all very similar QB's. Manning is completely different.



It's largely been forgotten (especially by the anti-Wilson crowd) how explosive the 2013 offense was through six games, even more so when compared to the flaccid 2012 offense. If we take that six game offense as a starting point and make incremental improvements (i.e. cut INTs by 1/3rd, steadier running game) then this team could substantially exceed the expectations of the general population (~5 wins). With the return of Scott and the addition of Booker (by all accounts a better all around RB than anyone Utah had last year) those incremental improvements are well positioned (and that's before you take into account some of the new speed being added to skill positions in Clay and McCormick). The one thing that we had in those six games that will be missing in 2013 is Jake Murphy--he didn't catch nearly enough balls but likely drew enough of the defense to open things up for the WRs. If Tonga and company can be 80% of what Murphy was then the other upgrades in skill positions should be enough to compensate.

Both of these posts are completely on target. Thanks.

Applejack
04-08-2014, 09:19 AM
I literally posted all the snaps from 4:00 pm until 5:40.

They had even series the first time around. They each had six snaps. Schulz had two 3 and outs, and Manning led a six play TD drive.

One the goal line offense (basically, pinned deep on the one yard line), only Wilson and Schulz took snaps.

On the mid-field situation, Manning took snaps and Schulz did not.

So, it basically was a wash. Here is the real thing going on:

Schulz isn't that good, and Manning is still way too small. Manning has talent, but it is eerie how he looks exactly like Wynn. Small, skinny. I don't think he ever plays for us.

I think Manning will be third string come this fall, behind Wilson and Thompson. Wilson is a lot better than Manning is. I also think that Isom will redshirt, but if both Wilson and Thompson are hurt, I'd see the coaches seriously considering burning Isom's RS vs starting Manning.

Wilson, Thompson and Isom are all very similar QB's. Manning is completely different.

The fact that everyone is assuming that Thompson is challenging for the starting spot is, in my opinion, a bad thing. He has shown nothing at the college level and the hope that he is our savior is highly unlikely. I just hope he is a decent backup in case Wilson goes down. It sounds like our other options are not panning out.

sancho
04-08-2014, 09:26 AM
The fact that everyone is assuming that Thompson is challenging for the starting spot is, in my opinion, a bad thing. He has shown nothing at the college level and the hope that he is our savior is highly unlikely. I just hope he is a decent backup in case Wilson goes down. It sounds like our other options are not panning out.

This is just natural fan-base behavior. There is a new guy we haven't seen yet - he is going to be a superstar. All athletes are stars until proven otherwise. I guess it's nice that hope springs eternal in sports fans.

The only thing I have heard against Manning so far is that he's skinny. That's not ideal, but it's not enough to write him off. Kellen Moore and Ty Detmer were among the greatest college QBs ever, and 5-year-old daughter can probably bench press either one of them.

Utah
04-08-2014, 10:16 AM
The fact that everyone is assuming that Thompson is challenging for the starting spot is, in my opinion, a bad thing. He has shown nothing at the college level and the hope that he is our savior is highly unlikely. I just hope he is a decent backup in case Wilson goes down. It sounds like our other options are not panning out.

I agree. Here is what I know:

Wilson is a very capable, even fantastic starting QB when healthy. Wilson is good enough, if he cuts down on the TO's he made as a SOPHOMORE to win every game he plays in. He can beat you with his feet and his arm. BUT, he has to cut down on the TO's. If he can get to the point where he is a 2:1 TD/INT, we win most games.

IF Thompson can come in and compete for the starting job, then he is great as well.

IF Thompson can win the job, this means that he is better than a QB that was putting up 38 points a game, beat the #5 team in the country, etc. AND, it means he is better by a large enough margin to overcome Wilson's job as team captain and experience.

So, I don't think Thompson is our QB this fall. Thompson came here thinking Wilson wasn't going to be able to play. But if he is our QB, then he is something special.

Even then, neither Wilson or Thompson have made it any sort of distance into a season without getting hurt, so it wouldn't shock me if both played a lot this year.

Utah
04-08-2014, 10:18 AM
This is just natural fan-base behavior. There is a new guy we haven't seen yet - he is going to be a superstar. All athletes are stars until proven otherwise. I guess it's nice that hope springs eternal in sports fans.

The only thing I have heard against Manning so far is that he's skinny. That's not ideal, but it's not enough to write him off. Kellen Moore and Ty Detmer were among the greatest college QBs ever, and 5-year-old daughter can probably bench press either one of them.

Manning just isn't there mentally yet. I'd say that is his biggest downfall. He is slow on reads, and slower to get the offense going. I think Manning will be a very, very good QB...as a JR and SR, when he can bulk up and know the offense inside and out.

The problem is, by the time that happens, I'm not sure he will still be here.

wally
04-08-2014, 10:54 AM
This is just natural fan-base behavior. There is a new guy we haven't seen yet - he is going to be a superstar. All athletes are stars until proven otherwise. I guess it's nice that hope springs eternal in sports fans.


My belief that Thompson gets a shot to start is based on the fact that both Whit and DC visited him and used TW's medical history to recruit him.

Where there is smoke.....

jrj84105
04-08-2014, 11:57 AM
The fact that everyone is assuming that Thompson is challenging for the starting spot is, in my opinion, a bad thing. He has shown nothing at the college level and the hope that he is our savior is highly unlikely. I just hope he is a decent backup in case Wilson goes down. It sounds like our other options are not panning out.
This is essentially the case. I don't think DC would have recruited guys like Manning and Schulz because they simply don't have the mobility his system is designed to utilize. DC has said that Wilson has the minimum mobility for his system, and DC shifted our 2015 recruiting QB focus to a dual threat guy. We weren't five deep at QB entering the year, we were more like five wide and one deep with five different flavors of QB. Cox has the athleticism for the system but isn't progressing as hoped. That means that Thompson is a backup sort of by default. Now that's still better than where we've been for several years where our starter was basically the default option.

At this point I'm just very glad that Manning didn't get the nod over Schulz last year. There obviously wasn't a clear separation, and I think had Manning started we would have lost Isom and Cox. With DC on board and a commitment to a mobile QB-run offense, I'm relieved to have Cox and Isom in the system.

concerned
04-08-2014, 12:03 PM
This is essentially the case. I don't think DC would have recruited guys like Manning and Schulz because they simply don't have the mobility his system is designed to utilize (DC has said that Wilson has the minimum mobility for his system, and DC shifted our 2015 recruiting QB focus to a dual threat guy). Cox has the athleticism but isn't progressing as hoped. That means that Thompson is a backup sort of by default. Now that's still better than where we've been for several years where our starter was basically the default option.

At this point I'm just very glad that Manning didn't get the nod over Schulz last year. There obviously wasn't a clear separation, and I think had Manning started we would have lost Isom and Cox. With DC on board and a commitment to a mobile QB-run offense, I'm relieved to have Cox and Isom in the system.

Does Isom have more than the minimally acceptable mobility for DC's system?

jrj84105
04-08-2014, 12:04 PM
Does Isom have more than the minimally acceptable mobility for DC's system?
Maybe a little slower than TW in a straight ahead foot race, but more juke/evasiveness/lateral mobility, so yes.

PS: Based on limited footage, I think Isom does a decent job of keeping his eyes upfield and throwing while moving the pocket which should also earn some mobility points.

Scratch
04-08-2014, 12:08 PM
Does Isom have more than the minimally acceptable mobility for DC's system?

I think so. Isom doesn't have the mobility of Cox or Thompson, but from what I've heard he's a little more athletic than Wilson. In fact, they are pretty similar physically. Wilson is about 6'6" and up to about 250, Isom is about 6'5" and about 235 or 240 right now.

Scratch
04-08-2014, 12:09 PM
Also, for what it's worth (probably not much), Rivals listed Wilson as a pro-style QB and Isom as a dual-threat QB.

Applejack
04-08-2014, 12:29 PM
Also, for what it's worth (probably not much), Rivals listed Wilson as a pro-style QB and Isom as a dual-threat QB.

Personally, I don't think Travis is that much of a threat to run. He occasionally breaks off a decent run when there is a breakdown on D, but he's not very quick and takes a LONG time to get up to full speed. Once there, he is pretty fast.

jrj84105
04-08-2014, 02:18 PM
Personally, I don't think Travis is that much of a threat to run. He occasionally breaks off a decent run when there is a breakdown on D, but he's not very quick and takes a LONG time to get up to full speed. Once there, he is pretty fast.TW's ability to stretch the field vertically and his ability to pick up strong gains running if the coverage overcommits to preventing the deep ball are very synergistic. If all TW did was check down and throw short routes he wouldn't have the time or space to get running, and if TW couldn't run well enough to keep the safeties honest, he wouldn't be nearly the deep ball threat as he has been.

Applejack
04-08-2014, 02:22 PM
TW's ability to stretch the field vertically and his ability to pick up strong gains running if the coverage overcommits to preventing the deep ball are very synergistic. If all TW did was check down and throw short routes he wouldn't have the time or space to get running, and if TW couldn't run well enough to keep the safeties honest, he wouldn't be nearly the deep ball threat as he has been.

Really? Do teams really gameplan for his (unplanned) running ability? That's interesting and surprising to me.

Utah
04-08-2014, 02:55 PM
TW's ability to stretch the field vertically and his ability to pick up strong gains running if the coverage overcommits to preventing the deep ball are very synergistic. If all TW did was check down and throw short routes he wouldn't have the time or space to get running, and if TW couldn't run well enough to keep the safeties honest, he wouldn't be nearly the deep ball threat as he has been.

I agree with this. Wilson is a better runner than he gets credit for. His first three games (the only three games he was healthy), he ran for 244 yards (81 yards a game), 24 attempts (8 per game), and over 10 yards per carry. He is a much, much better QB than he gets credit for. He was just hurt. Imagine last year, if we had a backup QB. Wilson gets hurt against BYU, plays well against Stanford and UCLA, but is clearly done at that point. Instead of blowing up the season at that point, you let Wilson sit for three weeks. He misses the Arizona and USC games, and we lose both games.

Imagine if we had a healthy Wilson for ASU and Wash St. We win both those games. We end the season 7-5, and end up playing Colorado St in a bowl game. Wilson blows up, we win that game easily, and end the year 8-5. With the defense we have coming in, could you imagine how much hype we would have had coming into this year? Who full on zoob we would all be again?

What happens if that backup is Chase Hansen (he didn't go on a mission) and not a walkon? We might win against Arizona or USC.

Our problem isn't Wilson. Or the OC. It's the fact that for three years now, we haven't had a backup QB.

We have a backup QB now. We will surprise teams this year.

jrj84105
04-08-2014, 03:48 PM
Really? Do teams really gameplan for his (unplanned) running ability? That's interesting and surprising to me.
I think this quote from OSU's DC is pretty characteristic of what opposing coaches said about TW.

“He’ll keep it off the edge when the time comes,” Banker said. “You pass-rush lanes, you contain. You make sure people keep an eye on him, and then in designed situations, have a spy who makes sure that if he wants to go, you’ve got someone who’s specifically assigned to him.”

Wilson had 13 rushing attempts for 142 yards and three rushing TD's that game.