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UtahsMrSports
06-27-2014, 08:02 AM
Some little tidbits from last night as it relates to our conference opponents:

-9 Players from the conference were drafted, including 6 from in the first round. The 9 players was the most of any conference, just ahead of the 8 from the ACC and 7 from the Big 10.

-UCLA had three players drafted in the first round. (Remember when we beat them??)

-The last three spots in the first round were all Pac-12 players.

-Aaron Gordon was the highest Pac-12 player taken, going 4th to Orlando.

-Finally, I take some comfort in knowing that next year, we will spend draft night anxiously anticipating where Delon Wright will end up.

Applejack
06-27-2014, 08:10 AM
Some little tidbits from last night as it relates to our conference opponents:

-9 Players from the conference were drafted, including 6 from in the first round. The 9 players was the most of any conference, just ahead of the 8 from the ACC and 7 from the Big 10.

-UCLA had three players drafted in the first round. (Remember when we beat them??)

-The last three spots in the first round were all Pac-12 players.

-Aaron Gordon was the highest Pac-12 player taken, going 4th to Orlando.

-Finally, I take some comfort in knowing that next year, we will spend draft night anxiously anticipating where Delon Wright will end up.

It will be fun to watch the NBA draft with Ute intrigue. When was the last time? Bogut? I guess some people thought Luke Nevill might get drafted late. Right now, I would guess that Delon gets taken late first/early second. He'll have an entire year to move up.

sancho
06-27-2014, 08:38 AM
More Pac-12 notes: Jahii Carson and Jordan Bach of ASU went undrafted.

UBlender
06-27-2014, 08:43 AM
It will be fun to watch the NBA draft with Ute intrigue. When was the last time? Bogut? I guess some people thought Luke Nevill might get drafted late. Right now, I would guess that Delon gets taken late first/early second. He'll have an entire year to move up.

It will be interesting because, while I haven't seen Dante Exum play, I always felt like his game was described almost exactly like Delon Wright's. They are similarly sized, although Exum seems a little longer and more explosive (based on description). In a less deep draft next year I would guess Delon falls into the late first round with a chance to get into the middle. Of course if he improves his shooting dramatically then who knows.

Just for kicks, in "way too early to be even remotely meaningful" mock drafts for 2015 draftexpress and nbadraft.net have Delon at #27 and #32, respectively.

concerned
06-27-2014, 08:43 AM
Delon sure made the right decision to come back.

concerned
06-27-2014, 08:45 AM
It will be interesting because, while I haven't seen Dante Exum play, I always felt like his game was described almost exactly like Delon Wright's. They are similarly sized, although Exum seems a little longer and more explosive (based on description). In a less deep draft next year I would guess Delon falls into the late first round with a chance to get into the middle. Of course if he improves his shooting dramatically then who knows.

Just for kicks, in "way too early to be even remotely meaningful" mock drafts for 2015 draftexpress and nbadraft.net have Delon at #27 and #32, respectively.

I'm not sure, but I think that Exum is a lot quicker than Delon, which is why his potential is so high. His combine results were super quick, quicker than John Wall.

Two Utes
06-27-2014, 09:30 AM
It will be interesting because, while I haven't seen Dante Exum play, I always felt like his game was described almost exactly like Delon Wright's. They are similarly sized, although Exum seems a little longer and more explosive (based on description). In a less deep draft next year I would guess Delon falls into the late first round with a chance to get into the middle. Of course if he improves his shooting dramatically then who knows.

Just for kicks, in "way too early to be even remotely meaningful" mock drafts for 2015 draftexpress and nbadraft.net have Delon at #27 and #32, respectively.

Sorry, but the cynic in me tells me that you are dead on. IMO, the best thing that ever happened to Exum is his dad married an Australian woman. Had he grown up in the US who wouldn't have been able to hide from real competition and his game would have been picked apart by so-called experts. The one thing he does get in Australia is real coaching instead of summer times spent playing garbage AAU ball.

Two Utes
06-27-2014, 09:34 AM
Some little tidbits from last night as it relates to our conference opponents:

-9 Players from the conference were drafted, including 6 from in the first round. The 9 players was the most of any conference, just ahead of the 8 from the ACC and 7 from the Big 10.

-UCLA had three players drafted in the first round. (Remember when we beat them??)

-The last three spots in the first round were all Pac-12 players.

-Aaron Gordon was the highest Pac-12 player taken, going 4th to Orlando.

-Finally, I take some comfort in knowing that next year, we will spend draft night anxiously anticipating where Delon Wright will end up.

That tells you how different the college game is to the pro game. UCLA has three first round draft picks and they can't get any farther than the sweet sixteen. I watched Levine live in the first round at SDSU. He barely got off the bench, missed 3 outside shots and had trouble defending. And yet he goes 13th in the draft.

I had a coach tell me that when USU played Fresno when Paul George was there, USU limited George to an average of 2 points in both games they played. The pro and the college game is drastically different.

Applejack
06-27-2014, 10:31 AM
That tells you how different the college game is to the pro game. UCLA has three first round draft picks and they can't get any farther than the sweet sixteen. I watched Levine live in the first round at SDSU. He barely got off the bench, missed 3 outside shots and had trouble defending. And yet he goes 13th in the draft.

I had a coach tell me that when USU played Fresno when Paul George was there, USU limited George to an average of 2 points in both games they played. The pro and the college game is drastically different.

Your coach friend is not being honest. In his sophmore year, George scored 3 points at home against USU (wait for it)...because he turned his ankle 7 minutes into the game (he missed the rest of the game as well as the next two). On the return trip to Logan, he scored 12 points with 7 boards as the Aggies beat the Bulldogs by 35. http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/players/82033

Two Utes
06-27-2014, 10:38 AM
Your coach friend is not being honest. In his sophmore year, George scored 3 points at home against USU (wait for it)...because he turned his ankle 7 minutes into the game (he missed the rest of the game as well as the next two). On the return trip to Logan, he scored 12 points with 7 boards as the Aggies beat the Bulldogs by 35. http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/players/82033

Well there you go. An embellished story. Although I do notice he played 38 minutes in the second game, went 1 for 6 from the three point line and 3 for 14 overall. Still not great numbers as his team gets beaten by 35. Ugly.

sancho
06-27-2014, 11:02 AM
Sorry, but the cynic in me tells me that you are dead on. IMO, the best thing that ever happened to Exum is his dad married an Australian woman. Had he grown up in the US who wouldn't have been able to hide from real competition and his game would have been picked apart by so-called experts. The one thing he does get in Australia is real coaching instead of summer times spent playing garbage AAU ball.

You're not alone. Pretty much everything I read on him is that he's a great big unknown who appears to have the potential to be a superstar. It's a very risky pick, so it will be fun to see. From a fan's perspective, I would rather roll the dice on Exum or Embiid and see what happens, especially with Gordon gone already.

concerned
06-27-2014, 11:18 AM
You're not alone. Pretty much everything I read on him is that he's a great big unknown who appears to have the potential to be a superstar. It's a very risky pick, so it will be fun to see. From a fan's perspective, I would rather roll the dice on Exum or Embiid and see what happens, especially with Gordon gone already.

Was Kobe much less of a risk? he played most of his years in Italy, although he did play at least a year or two of hs ball in Philly. Granted he was drafted much lower; not at 4.

UBlender
06-27-2014, 11:18 AM
I'm not sure, but I think that Exum is a lot quicker than Delon, which is why his potential is so high. His combine results were super quick, quicker than John Wall.

That's likely true, although I have no idea. My point was simply that there are a lot of similarities between the two. With Delon we've had a year to see what he does well but also to see that he can't shoot (yet). With Exum, nobody really knows. Given the known holes in the games of the other prospects available at 5, the Jazz had little choice but to make that pick and hope that Exum is as good as the hype suggests.

concerned
06-27-2014, 11:21 AM
That's likely true, although I have no idea. My point was simply that there are a lot of similarities between the two. With Delon we've had a year to see what he does well but also to see that he can't shoot (yet). With Exum, nobody really knows. Given the known holes in the games of the other prospects available at 5, the Jazz had little choice but to make that pick and hope that Exum is as good as the hype suggests.


I was all for trading 5, 23 and Favors and maybe Burks for Wiggins or Parker. But would I trade Exum, Hood, Favors and maybe Burks? Nope. have to roll the dice on Exum.

UBlender
06-27-2014, 11:24 AM
That tells you how different the college game is to the pro game. UCLA has three first round draft picks and they can't get any farther than the sweet sixteen. I watched Levine live in the first round at SDSU. He barely got off the bench, missed 3 outside shots and had trouble defending. And yet he goes 13th in the draft.

I had a coach tell me that when USU played Fresno when Paul George was there, USU limited George to an average of 2 points in both games they played. The pro and the college game is drastically different.

UCLA's shortcomings also have to do with having a mediocre coach that has never done well in March, but I agree with you. LaVine going in the lottery is a joke. When UCLA played at Utah last year, late in the game LaVine checked in and I turned to ColoUte and said something like "oh yeah, isn't he supposed to be a lottery pick?" We had made it almost the whole game without even noticing his presence. My feeling is that if you're a future pro then you impact the game in some way, even if you're not the focus of the offense. I watched LaVine several times and he never did that. He may prove me wrong but I just don't see it with him.

UBlender
06-27-2014, 11:31 AM
I was all for trading 5, 23 and Favors and maybe Burks for Wiggins or Parker. But would I trade Exum, Hood, Favors and maybe Burks? Nope. have to roll the dice on Exum.

Jazz now at least have something positive to hope for and hopefully start a foundation. They need Exum to pan out and be very good within 2-3 years. They need to hope the market is soft for Hayward so he can be resigned at a reasonable amount. Then they need to hope that they either have great fortune in the 2015 draft or are able to use some of the current assets to snag another star caliber player. If Exum pans out and you find another all-star type somehow then you can live with Hayward as your third best guy and have some of Favors, Hood, Burke, Burks, Kanter, Gobert in supporting roles (along with some veterans) and then you have a foundation and maybe a team that can make some playoff noise in a few years. That's all best case scenario but last night was a very good night for the Jazz in that they can at least sell some sort of vision now--something I don't think they could have done nearly as well with someone like Gordon or Vonleh being their pick.

sancho
06-27-2014, 11:32 AM
UCLA's shortcomings also have to do with having a mediocre coach that has never done well in March, but I agree with you. LaVine going in the lottery is a joke. When UCLA played at Utah last year, late in the game LaVine checked in and I turned to ColoUte and said something like "oh yeah, isn't he supposed to be a lottery pick?" We had made it almost the whole game without even noticing his presence. My feeling is that if you're a future pro then you impact the game in some way, even if you're not the focus of the offense. I watched LaVine several times and he never did that. He may prove me wrong but I just don't see it with him.

i'd have put Lavine at #11 on my draft board:

Wiggins, Parker, Embiid, Exum, Gordon, Smart, Randle, Stauskas, Vonleh, Saric, Lavine

I know he didn't wow at UCLA, but you draft for upside. Steady contributors like Gary Harris or Doug McDermott are a dime a dozen in the NBA. You absolutely NEED superstars to succeed. So if Lavine has the athleticism to maybe be a star one day, he's worth a pick.

By the way, the 76rs are doing the tank thing right. They stash both Embiid and Saric while they tank again. In 2016, they will have a starting lineup of Nerlens Noel, Joel Embiid, Dario Saric, and next year's #1 pick at SG/PG.

UBlender
06-27-2014, 12:55 PM
i'd have put Lavine at #11 on my draft board:

Wiggins, Parker, Embiid, Exum, Gordon, Smart, Randle, Stauskas, Vonleh, Saric, Lavine

I know he didn't wow at UCLA, but you draft for upside. Steady contributors like Gary Harris or Doug McDermott are a dime a dozen in the NBA. You absolutely NEED superstars to succeed. So if Lavine has the athleticism to maybe be a star one day, he's worth a pick.

By the way, the 76rs are doing the tank thing right. They stash both Embiid and Saric while they tank again. In 2016, they will have a starting lineup of Nerlens Noel, Joel Embiid, Dario Saric, and next year's #1 pick at SG/PG.

I agree that you need superstars in this league, I just don't think LaVine will be one....or even a steady contributor like Harris or McDermott. Upside has to be a consideration when drafting but I like to see a little substance with the upside. I think Wiggins was drafted largely on upside as his year at Kansas was very good but not earth-shattering. The difference is a guy like Wiggins has enough moments where he really looks like a potential star while LaVine can jump really high but has almost no on-court contribution that suggests he will be great at basketball in the NBA.

The 76ers are an interesting study in long-term tanking. It's the type of approach I would expect a small market like Utah or Memphis to attempt, but I can't think of anybody who has so openly admitted that they are planning to tank for several years running. I was on the record as (hypothetically) supporting the Jazz taking a flier on Embiid after his injuries were revealed, but taking two of those injured big guys in consecutive seasons is an interesting strategy. I guess they have diversified their risk portfolio there--odds are that at least one of the two will get healthy and play at a high level.