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View Full Version : Just like old times......Utes versus Aztecs Game thread



UtahsMrSports
11-17-2014, 08:24 AM
I am very excited for this game. First chance we have to come out and make a statement. It might be ugly, but I think we have a chance.

GO UTES!

LA Ute
11-17-2014, 11:49 AM
Phil Cullen's e-mail today:


This week we play our first road game of the season against San Diego State. We arrived yesterday afternoon and had a practice in Veijas Arena last night. With the game being played on ESPN and their 24 hours of continuos college basketball coverage we needed to get ready for our time slot of 1 pm PT and 2 pm MTN.

San Diego State is currently ranked #16 in the country and has a group of veteran players returning. They play an uptempo full court pressing style looking to utilize their size and length to create turnovers and easy scoring opportunities. They are also one of the best rebounding teams in the country.

On a side note we are staying in Coronado and had the opportunity to reunite with the Commander who led our Navy Seal Leadership retreat. The retreat had a major impact on our players and our staff this year. The term "Musster Up" is a daily practice for us and we hope that you will Musster Up with us.

We appreciate your support. GO UTES!

SoCalPat
11-17-2014, 03:44 PM
Aztecs open -3.5. Vegas views this game as a tossup.

Dwight Schr-Ute
11-17-2014, 04:33 PM
Aztecs open -3.5. Vegas views this game as a tossup.

Does Vegas consider home court advantage worth ~ 3 points in basketball as well?

Old Standing ute
11-17-2014, 04:38 PM
Aztecs open -3.5. Vegas views this game as a tossup.

SDStU starts a 6'10" and a bunch of 6'7" players. Pound the glass & press type of team. Will be interesting to see if they bang on Poeltl how he holds up.

Team that gets hot from 3 will probably carry the day.
SD worried about getting a good crowd on a Tuesday at 1.

311ute
11-17-2014, 04:48 PM
Limit the turnovers and we win this game. Easier said than done, because the Aztecs get out and pressure better than anyone in the country. Taylor makes me a bit nervous in this game, he's been prone to turning it over against pressure in his career here, and he was a bit careless with the ball Friday night.

Like everyone has said, this will be a low-scoring, defensive struggle. I hope we can make a few outside shots early in the game, that would be big for our confidence.

Such a big game.

SoCalPat
11-17-2014, 08:20 PM
Does Vegas consider home court advantage worth ~ 3 points in basketball as well?

Just a shade under 4 points, but Vegas puts a greater emphasis on the venue than it does college football. BYU under Jimmer -- that homecourt was probably worth closer to 10 points per game. Our first year under Larry, I'm not sure if our homecourt meant anything. I would say SDSU's homecourt is worth a little more than 4 points as well.

LA Ute
11-18-2014, 07:49 AM
I don't know what to expect from this game. What I'll be watching for:

*How does Poeltl do against big time competition?

*Will Reyes be effective against size and length like SDSU's?

*How many Utah players will see significant court time?

*Will Loveridge step up and lead -- by, for example, fighting through adversity?

*How well does the new motion offense work?

*What will SDSU do to stop Delon, and will Utah be able to exploit those efforts, for example, by shooting (and hitting) over a tight keyhole defense?

*How will Delon and Poeltl interact? They could be a great duo this year. Delon did not have a big with size and great hands last year.

What will the rest of you be watching for?

UtahsMrSports
11-18-2014, 09:01 AM
No one is really talking about Utah playing JJ Obrien. I guess it makes sense. JJ was here for one year, and quite frankly, that seems like so long ago now.

Also, I guess I had forgotten that the Aztecs have Trey Kell. I know that we went after him really hard during the summer of 2013.

Here is what I will be watching today:

-How will BT do against this size?

-Kenny Ogbe showed potential to be a lock down defender. Will this continue against SDSU?

-How much do the freshman play against this swarming, pressing team? It is great for experience but could be very frustrating.

-Can we improve our perimeter defense to not allow so many open looks from deep?

-How do we attack such a defense?

I think its going to be fun.

Applejack
11-18-2014, 09:22 AM
Who is watching the game today? I have an, um, appointment at 4:00 so I have to leave work early. Luckily, my appointment features a nice big screen tv. Anyone else going to be online for commentary?

hostile
11-18-2014, 09:48 AM
Who is watching the game today? I have an, um, appointment at 4:00 so I have to leave work early. Luckily, my appointment features a nice big screen tv. Anyone else going to be online for commentary?
I am recording the game for enjoyment after work.

UtahsMrSports
11-18-2014, 09:56 AM
Who is watching the game today? I have an, um, appointment at 4:00 so I have to leave work early. Luckily, my appointment features a nice big screen tv. Anyone else going to be online for commentary?

Ill have Bill and Jimmy going in the background.

U-Ute
11-18-2014, 10:10 AM
I am recording the game, but will see if I can find a live stream to watch.

With it being on ESPN, it looks like I should be able to stream it via: http://espn.go.com/watchespn/ if I can find a corner to hide in for a while.

Mormon Red Death
11-18-2014, 10:36 AM
I am recording the game, but will see if I can find a live stream to watch.

With it being on ESPN, it looks like I should be able to stream it via: http://espn.go.com/watchespn/ if I can find a corner to hide in for a while.

I'll be working from Home this afternoon so I don't miss tipoff.

LA Ute
11-18-2014, 11:33 AM
I'll figure out a way to watch a lot of it using my Dish Slingbox feature on my iPad but am recording it for more careful viewing later. I toyed with working from home today but can't justify doing that -- too much going on

sancho
11-18-2014, 11:43 AM
I don't know what to expect from this game. What I'll be watching for:


*How does Poeltl do against big time competition?

Nice to know that we have Bach and Olsen on the bench just in case.



*Will Reyes be effective against size and length like SDSU's?

This is always my concern with JCs. The big men at that level are not close to what he will see at this level.



*What will SDSU do to stop Delon, and will Utah be able to exploit those efforts, for example, by shooting (and hitting) over a tight keyhole defense?

Delon is not a shooter, and he never will be. But he's still going to be the best player on the court. In fact, he will be the best player on the court in all but 3 games for us this year. The shooting will have to come from Loveridge, Taylor, Ogbe, Tucker, Wright Jr, and Kuzma.

concerned
11-18-2014, 12:06 PM
I'll figure out a way to watch a lot of it using my Dish Slingbox feature on my iPad but am recording it for more careful viewing later. I toyed with working from home today but can't justify doing that -- too much going on

You guys can all complain about Comcast, but if you had it you could watch on your computer at work. (although I suppose Comcast isnt available in LA.)

Applejack
11-18-2014, 12:57 PM
You guys can all complain about Comcast, but if you had it you could watch on your computer at work. (although I suppose Comcast isnt available in LA.)

You don't need Comcast for that. As long as you get ESPN at home and your local provider has agreed to be a part of WatchESPN (most have), you can just watch online.

In fact, you can even do that if you DON'T get ESPN at home. Or so I've heard...

Mormon Red Death
11-18-2014, 12:57 PM
I'll figure out a way to watch a lot of it using my Dish Slingbox feature on my iPad but am recording it for more careful viewing later. I toyed with working from home today but can't justify doing that -- too much going on
hey old man... Dish Anywhere is the same thing comcast has. You can watch the game on your computer for work.

LA Ute
11-18-2014, 02:26 PM
You don't need Comcast for that. As long as you get ESPN at home and your local provider has agreed to be a part of WatchESPN (most have), you can just watch online.

In fact, you can even do that if you DON'T get ESPN at home. Or so I've heard...


hey old man... Dish Anywhere is the same thing comcast has. You can watch the game on your computer for work.


You guys can all complain about Comcast, but if you had it you could watch on your computer at work. (although I suppose Comcast isnt available in LA.)

I actually know that I can access Dish Anywhere at work and I might watch at my desk. We'll see! MRD's lawn pass is revoked, BTW.

Diehard Ute
11-18-2014, 02:35 PM
My screwy schedule has advantages. I'm on my couch with full HD and 7.1 surround

Applejack
11-18-2014, 02:42 PM
My screwy schedule has advantages. I'm on my couch with full HD and 7.1 surround

Thank you for your service!

Diehard Ute
11-18-2014, 02:46 PM
Thank you for your service!

You're welcome (Don't tell anyone. But I have the greatest job in the world)

sancho
11-18-2014, 02:47 PM
Wichita State taking it to Memphis. Gonna be a tough game for us.

Diehard Ute
11-18-2014, 03:05 PM
I have no clue what Walton just said

UtahsMrSports
11-18-2014, 03:16 PM
maybe try somethign besides bombing threes?

justaute
11-18-2014, 03:22 PM
This is a real, tough test. Perfect.


maybe try somethign besides bombing threes?

Diehard Ute
11-18-2014, 03:24 PM
Delon looks awful

justaute
11-18-2014, 03:25 PM
Delon is playing like $hit. Still hesitant from outside. Taylor can't get shots off without effective screens or ball-swing because he is too slow.

LA Ute
11-18-2014, 03:27 PM
Delon mising the layup and then giving up the ball to the press were pretty brutal mistakes.

UtahsMrSports
11-18-2014, 03:29 PM
we are shooting 8% from the field! SDSU has a good defense, but come on guys!

LA Ute
11-18-2014, 03:29 PM
maybe try somethign besides bombing threes?

Larry's obviously betting on that strategy to open up the middle. We could sure use a couple of treys about now.

UtahsMrSports
11-18-2014, 03:31 PM
Larry's obviously betting on that strategy to open up the middle. We could sure use a couple of treys about now.

and there you go!

justaute
11-18-2014, 03:32 PM
That would work if we had that Sellers kid from Ball State. Our players just look slow and lost.


Larry's obviously betting on that strategy to open up the middle. We could sure use a couple of treys about now.

SavaUte
11-18-2014, 03:35 PM
Utah just looks flustered by the pressure D and top 25 matchup. I'm confident they'll calm down

SavaUte
11-18-2014, 03:36 PM
And their youth is showing missing some good opportunities to take advantage of the over aggressive D

Diehard Ute
11-18-2014, 03:44 PM
Lots of really poor decisions. Wright's play is mind boggling

LA Ute
11-18-2014, 03:45 PM
Two blown fast breaks, JItters?

Applejack
11-18-2014, 03:48 PM
Really ugly so far. SDSU's lack of offense is keeping is in it.

I'm still not convinced we are ready for the big time.

justaute
11-18-2014, 03:50 PM
Hope Jlove steps up this season. Last season, notwithstanding his decent average stats, he often disappeared in big games.

Diehard Ute
11-18-2014, 03:52 PM
Ugly but we're winning.

justaute
11-18-2014, 03:52 PM
Poeltl is the top-performing player in the 1st half -- the experienced guys are disappointing so far.

SeattleUte
11-18-2014, 03:53 PM
We're slaughtering them on the boards.

SavaUte
11-18-2014, 03:54 PM
Poeltl is owning on defense. He's affecting nearly every shot. Much like Foster did a few years ago

LA Ute
11-18-2014, 03:56 PM
Really ugly so far. SDSU's lack of offense is keeping is in it.

I'm still not convinced we are ready for the big time.

In fairness SDSU is stinking it up too, 27.7% from the field to our 22.4%.

justaute
11-18-2014, 04:00 PM
We are all just a bunch of stinkers. Ha.

Oh...we still need outside threat.


In fairness SDSU is stinking it up too, 27.7% from the field to our 22.4%.

U-Ute
11-18-2014, 04:00 PM
Did the Utah and Stanford football teams suit up for this game? Great defense, hesitant oh-fense.



Defense looks good.
Rebounding is good. Poltl looking fantastic on the boards. Reyes being active.
Offense looks lost. Not too concerning this early in the season.
Utes went at least 10 deep with no real disruption. I didn't see JO on the floor.


SDSU is a good team and we're standing toe-to-toe with them. Poeltl is straight up legit.

Whichever team can put together a 10 point run in the second half will have a good chance of winning this.

sancho
11-18-2014, 04:05 PM
Really ugly so far. SDSU's lack of offense is keeping is in it.


This is what SDSU does. It's not basketball, but they make a living with it.

LA Ute
11-18-2014, 04:12 PM
Delon shows signs of awakening from his slumber. He'd better, or we're done for.

Poeltl is awesome on the glass.

Diehard Ute
11-18-2014, 04:15 PM
Jordan is a ghost again. He must struggle with putting pressure on himself

The number of layups that are rimming out is odd

justaute
11-18-2014, 04:15 PM
We still can't hit from outside. Jlove continues to disappear against good teams and still makes poor passes.

LA Ute
11-18-2014, 04:18 PM
Their pressure is exposing some Ute carelessness with the ball.

LA Ute
11-18-2014, 04:20 PM
Some very good defense by the Utes. Good shot-blocking, poor care of the ball, too many offensive rebounds given up. Amazed we are still in this game.

Diehard Ute
11-18-2014, 04:21 PM
Jordan needs a seat.

And so do these refs.

justaute
11-18-2014, 04:21 PM
Where the hell did Loveridge learn how to pass? Where is the BB IQ? After 2+ years of D1 ball, still hasn't learned.

LA Ute
11-18-2014, 04:24 PM
Jordan got his seat, I hope he can collect his thoughts and get back out there. I love the kid but if he keeps disappearing his minutes are going to drop significantly with all the youngert talent now pushing him.

LA Ute
11-18-2014, 04:26 PM
What was with that lob??

LA Ute
11-18-2014, 04:27 PM
Poor Delon.

Rocker Ute
11-18-2014, 04:28 PM
Keep shooting Delon, they'll start to fall.

LA Ute
11-18-2014, 04:30 PM
This is a make-or-break point in this game. We can't fall behind by 8.

SeattleUte
11-18-2014, 04:32 PM
We need a hot hand.

LA Ute
11-18-2014, 04:32 PM
Time out was the right call. Wow, we are playing poorly on O but also can't buy a break.

U-Ute
11-18-2014, 04:33 PM
Delon shows signs of awakening from his slumber. He'd better, or we're done for.

Poeltl is awesome on the glass.

The very definition of "glass eater".

LA Ute
11-18-2014, 04:34 PM
We need a hot hand.

If we don't get one right now this could get pretty ugly.

U-Ute
11-18-2014, 04:34 PM
Good defense played by Chapman and Kuzma.

Add Poeltl and these freshmen are incredible. This team is going to be really good as they get experience.

sancho
11-18-2014, 04:35 PM
This is a make-or-break point in this game. We can't fall behind by 8.

Yup, I think 9 is too much for us today. Still, not a terrible experience to play a good team on the road in a hostile environment. The Utes have been talked up all offseason. Good reality check for the team and us fans.

LA Ute
11-18-2014, 04:38 PM
I'm sure LK is not telling them that it's OK at this point to take the whole 35 seconds on the shot clock for every possession. My guess is that we are just stymied offensively. Whoever on the SDSU team has Delon should get the game ball if they win.

justaute
11-18-2014, 04:39 PM
Love what Walton just said...basically if your best players who can't step-up when you are needed the most, then you are not going to win. That's Utah.

Diehard Ute
11-18-2014, 04:40 PM
Jordan is killing us. I love the kid but man he's just a liability today

sancho
11-18-2014, 04:42 PM
I'm taking some consolation in knowing that OBrien is still nothing special.

justaute
11-18-2014, 04:44 PM
Impressed with I. Wright so far. Not only because he hit those two 3's, but also the way he handles the ball and moves around the court.

sancho
11-18-2014, 04:44 PM
Impressed with I. Wright so far. Not only because he hit those two 3's, but also the way he handles the ball and moves around the court.

I'm just impressed that he hit the 3's. No one else did.

justaute
11-18-2014, 04:45 PM
That may be, but he's still getting more than done several of our players have.


I'm taking some consolation in knowing that OBrien is still nothing special.

LA Ute
11-18-2014, 04:47 PM
I really didn't expect to see a win here and we are seeing some nice things. Poeltl, for one. Chapman and I. Wright contributing. Kuzma looks better. Delon is trying but for whatever reason this is one of his off games. It won't happen again often, if at all. Some athletic defensive moves.

Loveridge is a worry. Maybe he's hit his ceiling.

That last SDSU bucket was the ballgame, BTW. We can have a game where either Delon or Jordan doesn't show up, but not both of them.

Rocker Ute
11-18-2014, 04:49 PM
I can't help but feel like this is LA Ute's fault.

U-Ute
11-18-2014, 04:51 PM
Interesting that IWright has been playing instead of JLove the last few minutes.

We need a thread devoted to Walton's Observations: "You don't go undefeated if you don't win the first game of the year."

sancho
11-18-2014, 04:53 PM
I love the call on the tiny bump at the end of the game. How many basketball games have I watched where clutching, grabbing, and bumping is all good until the outcome is secure at which point every little touch becomes a personal foul?

I love this game and probably always will, but it is a seriously flawed sport.

U-Ute
11-18-2014, 04:53 PM
I really didn't expect to see a win here and we are seeing some nice things. Poeltl, for one. Chapman and I. Wright contributing. Kuzma looks better. Delon is trying but for whatever reason this is one of his off games. It won't happen again often, if at all. Some athletic defensive moves.

Loveridge is a worry. Maybe he's hit his ceiling.

That last SDSU bucket was the ballgame, BTW. We can have a game where either Delon or Jordan doesn't show up, but not both of them.

And yet we're still within striking distance.

This team plays D and rebounds really well.

LA Ute
11-18-2014, 04:56 PM
I can't help but feel like this is LA Ute's fault.

Its true. If I had driven down to watch the game none of this would have happened.

Diehard Ute
11-18-2014, 04:57 PM
Reyes, Chapman and Poeltl are excellent additions. I Wright will be good as well.

LA Ute
11-18-2014, 04:57 PM
And yet we're still within striking distance.

This team plays D and rebounds really well.

Yeah, I am not terribly worried by this performance. Not scoring 40 points in a game would be embarrassing, however.

LA Ute
11-18-2014, 04:58 PM
Reyes, Chapman and Poeltl are excellent additions. I Wright will be good as well.

Just watched Poeltl run the floor. Pretty impressive.

LA Ute
11-18-2014, 05:00 PM
Boy, Delon is just cursed this afternoon.

Diehard Ute
11-18-2014, 05:00 PM
Delon's body language is poor. I noticed it during the exhibition as well. He's very demonstrative with his frustration and annoyance. It's something that seems to be affecting him.

justaute
11-18-2014, 05:00 PM
I'm worried -- sort of. Not because we are losing or will lose, but because how poorly Loveridge played, how ineffective Bach, and Delon's inability to shoot.



Yeah, I am not terribly worried by this performance. Not scoring 40 points in a game would be embarrassing, however.

justaute
11-18-2014, 05:03 PM
Also noticed that.


Delon's body language is poor. I noticed it during the exhibition as well. He's very demonstrative with his frustration and annoyance. It's something that seems to be affecting him.

LA Ute
11-18-2014, 05:04 PM
I'm worried -- sort of. Not because we are losing or will lose, but because how poorly Loveridge played, how ineffective Bach, and Delon's inability to shoot.

Delon has a history of being the most consistent player on the team, so that's at the bottom of my worry list. Bach is Bach. Poeltl protects the team from having to rely on Bach. Loveridge...well, I guess Chapman, Kuzma, and even I. Wright give us insurance against Jordan's maddening inconsistency.

SeattleUte
11-18-2014, 05:04 PM
I can't help but feel like this is LA Ute's fault.

It's LA Ute's and others' fault who were throwing in the towel so early. We can't be the kind of team that has lost the game if it's down by 8 with five minutes to go.

U-Ute
11-18-2014, 05:04 PM
Taylor is such a stud.

justaute
11-18-2014, 05:06 PM
You and I are not looking through the same lens, clearly. LOL

My point about Delon is his shooting ability, not about his rebounding/blocking/steal/handling skills. Yes, he's the most consistent, but he still has to find an outside game for the good of his future and team's growth.


Delon has a history of being the most consistent player on the team, so that's at the bottom of my worry list. Bach is Bach. Poeltl protects the team from having to rely on Bach. Loveridge...well, I guess Chapman, Kuzma, and even I. Wright give us insurance against Jordan's maddening inconsistency.

LA Ute
11-18-2014, 05:07 PM
I'll be in SLC over Thanksgiving and plan to see all the games that week. I think that stretch will give Larry K. a chance to work out some kinks and for the team to gain more confidence. This was a good early test and a chance to identify some weaknesses.

LA Ute
11-18-2014, 05:09 PM
It's LA Ute's and others' fault who were throwing in the towel so early. We can't be the kind of team that has lost the game if it's down by 8 with five minutes to go.

But I made sure the team didn't know I felt that way!

LA Ute
11-18-2014, 05:10 PM
You and I are not looking through the same lens, clearly. LOL

My point about Delon is his shooting ability, not about his rebounding/blocking/steal/handling skills. Yes, he's the most consistent, but he still has to find an outside game for the good of his future and team's growth.

If he hasn't got an outside shot now he isn't going to get one this season.

LA Ute
11-18-2014, 05:15 PM
I'm impressed that they made it interesting after all. I think these guys will be fine. Like the football team, they have no quit in them, and we have the luxury of not having to rely on Loveridge (even though I hope it turns out that we can, and that he has a great season).

justaute
11-18-2014, 05:16 PM
Hence, my concern.


If he hasn't got an outside shot now he isn't going to get one this season.

sancho
11-18-2014, 05:20 PM
Hence, my concern.

Sure, but it's not a new concern. We already knew this about Delon.

SoCalPat
11-18-2014, 05:23 PM
Really disappointing to see our top 3 players shoot 7 for 30 with nine turnovers. Loveridge hasn't gotten better at all -- bad turnovers, no left hand and can't hit a jumper on the road to save his life. I can cut Delon some slack because he's been so good for us, but it would be nice to see him go 2 for 13 against Ball State instead of San Diego State.

Poeltl has a nose for the ball but has no lift in his feet. Without that, he'll need to develop a face-up game.

I gotta go back and see who it was who said Chapman was a redshirt candidate. No fear in his game. To be fair, I thought it made sense to redshirt IWright, and that too would've been foolish.

First observation with no replay says we pass too much on the perimeter and don't back cut enough.

Diehard Ute
11-18-2014, 05:34 PM
Our starting 4/5 combine for 21 rebounds. Been a long time since we said that.

We all know Brandon is hit and miss. Jordan is the one that just kills us IMO. He doesn't add anything beyond scoring. Others do other things.

LA Ute
11-18-2014, 05:39 PM
Our starting 4/5 combine for 21 rebounds. Been a long time since we said that.

We all know Brandon is hit and miss. Jordan is the one that just kills us IMO. He doesn't add anything beyond scoring. Others do other things.

Agree 100%.

Diehard Ute
11-18-2014, 05:45 PM
Larry on the post game was happy with defense and rebounding.

Said there were a lot of built in excuses but the offense was on him and he and the team just need to improve. Said he was somewhat concerned with the fact that all of the turnovers were half court, but also realizes SDSU has talent and rare length.

Was pleased with the fight the team showed and the way the freshman played. Said Delon pleased him by wanting to win and not caring about stats as always but also said Delon will need to be better because of the target that's on his back this year.

Rocker Ute
11-18-2014, 05:59 PM
Poeltl has a nose for rebounds, other than offensive woes he had a pretty strong stat line of 12 rebounds and 7 blocks. Take notice.

Reyes for whatever reason flew in under my radar, I'm really happy with what he brings on the floor. 9 rebounds for him as well. I think the old days of not knowing how to grab a board are long behind us (let me not rue saying that).

Delon Wright missed shots he hit with ease every day all day last year. He hits those and we win this game easily. If this keeps up I'll be worried, but he'll start hitting layups again soon I'm sure. The guy is a headache for any offense, 8 rebounds, 3 steals and 2 blocks... keeping in mind that there were a number of deflected passes and near steals throughout the game.

I think, going to SoCalPat's comment, I agree completely on the back cuts, but wonder if that might be partly because I don't think Poeltl is there on the offensive side there, he does look a bit confused there right now. A lot of the successful cuts depend on a center who is doing what he needs to do. Lane violations against Ball State are also an indicator of that I think.

And now for the homerism, a highly ranked and experienced team in SDSU played a part in making things look sloppy out there. I think we dealt well with the press, better than we have in years, but that stuff starts to get to you after a while. I'm not overly worried about this loss. That being said, if we want to be that good team with a decent seed that we are expecting, we need to steal a few like these today. Seeing Larry teams for a bit now, I think come near the end of the season we'll be there, I just fear those opportunities lie mostly at the beginning of the season.

Finally, I doubt that O'Brien regrets his decision, and if he stayed he wouldn't be part of this team anyway, but I wonder if he realizes he was wrong about Kodiak. I can think of guys I would have taken him over on last year's team, I can't think of one right now (if we aren't factoring in experience). I think the crown jewel of the Boylen years (excluding Will Clyburn) may not be a guy recruited to our team if we factored out timing, experience, etc and just looked at final college potential. That isn't sour grapes, and it isn't saying his isn't very good, it is just saying I am really pro on the guys we have contributing now and their future potential.

Two Utes
11-18-2014, 06:01 PM
Larry on the post game was happy with defense and rebounding.

Said there were a lot of built in excuses but the offense was on him and he and the team just need to improve. Said he was somewhat concerned with the fact that all of the turnovers were half court, but also realizes SDSU has talent and rare length.

Was pleased with the fight the team showed and the way the freshman played. Said Delon pleased him by wanting to win and not caring about stats as always but also said Delon will need to be better because of the target that's on his back this year.

Two very good defensive teams.

We don't shoot the ball well. Fortunately, 95% of the other college basketball teams don't shoot the ball well either. (AAU).

Refs have gone back to reffing the old way, which slows down the game.

Our best shooter is 5'5" inches and has trouble getting his shot off. Our second best shooter may be Chapman.

If Delon can't make an outside shot and can't score against a team like SDSU, he won't be drafted.

We bang, we defend and we rebound. That will keep us in most games this year.

SeattleUte
11-18-2014, 06:15 PM
The beauty of college basketball is that an early season loss says little or nothing about where the team will be in four weeks. Teams are allowed to grow and progress. Also, bear in mind that just by playing this game, win or lose, we get NCAA playoff bid brownie points.

This reminds me of one of those ugly offense early season Majerus losses that used to send Pat and LA into a swoon of anxiety.

Applejack
11-18-2014, 06:35 PM
The beauty of college basketball is that an early season loss says little or nothing about where the team will be in four weeks. Teams are allowed to grow and progress. Also, bear in mind that just by playing this game, win or lose, we get NCAA playoff bid brownie points.

This reminds me of one of those ugly offense early season Majerus losses that used to send Pat and LA into a swoon of anxiety.

Not a lot to love about this game, but I agree that you can't learn much about a team this early on. In fact, the things you can glean (depth, rebounding, defense) all seem to be on solid footing. Offense can take time, as Fat Rick reminded us every year.

Not sure what to think about Delon's early season funk. He didn't miss those bunnies last year.

LA Ute
11-18-2014, 06:43 PM
The beauty of college basketball is that an early season loss says little or nothing about where the team will be in four weeks. Teams are allowed to grow and progress. Also, bear in mind that just by playing this game, win or lose, we get NCAA playoff bid brownie points.

This reminds me of one of those ugly offense early season Majerus losses that used to send Pat and LA into a swoon of anxiety.

I've been libelled.

justaute
11-18-2014, 06:46 PM
Agreed. Certainly hope this is the case.


The beauty of college basketball is that an early season loss says little or nothing about where the team will be in four weeks. Teams are allowed to grow and progress. Also, bear in mind that just by playing this game, win or lose, we get NCAA playoff bid brownie points.

This reminds me of one of those ugly offense early season Majerus losses that used to send Pat and LA into a swoon of anxiety.

UtahsMrSports
11-18-2014, 08:14 PM
Really disappointing to see our top 3 players shoot 7 for 30 with nine turnovers. Loveridge hasn't gotten better at all -- bad turnovers, no left hand and can't hit a jumper on the road to save his life. I can cut Delon some slack because he's been so good for us, but it would be nice to see him go 2 for 13 against Ball State instead of San Diego State.

Poeltl has a nose for the ball but has no lift in his feet. Without that, he'll need to develop a face-up game.

I gotta go back and see who it was who said Chapman was a redshirt candidate. No fear in his game. To be fair, I thought it made sense to redshirt IWright, and that too would've been foolish.

First observation with no replay says we pass too much on the perimeter and don't back cut enough.

Yeah, what an idiot! *Crosses fimgers that noone remembers*

Old Standing ute
11-18-2014, 08:15 PM
Really disappointing to see our top 3 players shoot 7 for 30 with nine turnovers. Loveridge hasn't gotten better at all -- bad turnovers, no left hand and can't hit a jumper on the road to save his life. I can cut Delon some slack because he's been so good for us, but it would be nice to see him go 2 for 13 against Ball State instead of San Diego State.

Poeltl has a nose for the ball but has no lift in his feet. Without that, he'll need to develop a face-up game.

I gotta go back and see who it was who said Chapman was a redshirt candidate. No fear in his game. To be fair, I thought it made sense to redshirt IWright, and that too would've been foolish.

First observation with no replay says we pass too much on the perimeter and don't back cut enough.

Agree--Offense needs to be more north/south, instead of weaving across top of key. And if both Bigs come out to elbow they need to slip screen or roll hard & get the ball.
Poeltl was doubled every time, if he can kick it out quick or hit a cutter then he will be really tough.
Chapman held his own & can score around the rim. He took 2 3's --form looked good, if he can hit that & be stretch 4 too then look out.
Freaky Zekey Wright is a natural leader---he will drive this team at some point. He was only one to hit 3's early & was not fazed by the press in only his 2nd game.
SDSU holds, grabs & goes over the back---just like in FB they could call holding on every play. They will not get that much better--whereas Utes will figure things out.
Reyes looked good.
Loveridge should only play left wing as he can only drive with right hand. Both he & Delon need to be able to pull up in the lane at 10-12'.

No give up which is nice to see.

And Bill Walton is a riot.---love his backyard teepee with the Grateful Dead interior.

LA Ute
11-18-2014, 08:47 PM
Loveridge should only play left wing as he can only drive with right hand. Both he & Delon need to be able to pull up in the lane at 10-12'.

Delon's never had a pull-up shot, but I agree he'd be deadly if he did. (Others here disagree. Maybe they'll come forward again. They're wrong, but hey! Free speech. ;))

I don't mean to pile on but I'm always surprised to see college basketball players who hope to be seen as elite, but who've never learned to use their non-dominant hand on layups.

sancho
11-18-2014, 08:56 PM
Delon's never had a pull-up shot, but I agree he'd be deadly if he did. (Others here disagree. Maybe they'll come forward again. They're wrong, but hey! Free speech. ;))


I'm pretty sure everyone would prefer a pull up jumper over nothing. I think there was some debate on whether a pull up jumper would be as useful as a pull up three or a catch and shoot three.

sancho
11-18-2014, 09:06 PM
Poeltl played a lot of minutes today. I hope Bach and Olsen get back into the rotation. They are both good players.

LA Ute
11-18-2014, 09:26 PM
I'm pretty sure everyone would prefer a pull up jumper over nothing. I think there was some debate on whether a pull up jumper would be as useful as a pull up three or a catch and shoot three.

My incredibly insightful view:

http://www.utahby5.com/showthread.php?1329-The-Delon-Wright-Thread&p=34683&viewfull=1#post34683

Responses from those with a Philistine view:


http://www.utahby5.com/showthread.php?1329-The-Delon-Wright-Thread&p=34851&viewfull=1#post34851


http://www.utahby5.com/showthread.php?1329-The-Delon-Wright-Thread&p=34707&viewfull=1#post34707

Delon will not have a catch and shoot three this season, if ever.

UtahsMrSports
11-18-2014, 09:28 PM
Poeltl played a lot of minutes today. I hope Bach and Olsen get back into the rotation. They are both good players.

Poeltl brings so much that im not sure larry can justify playing the other two for extended time.

sancho
11-18-2014, 09:35 PM
Delon will not have a catch and shoot three this season, if ever.

Yes. Nor will he have a 10 foot pull up.

sancho
11-18-2014, 09:37 PM
Poeltl brings so much that im not sure larry can justify playing the other two for extended time.

Come on, he's good enough to start over them, but it's not like we have Kareem in there. Bach in particular brought a lot for us last year. And Olsen still might be our most capable offensive player. He's the only player on the team with a go to move in the post, right?

LA Ute
11-18-2014, 10:27 PM
It is very significant that we actually outrebounded SDSU.

Old Standing ute
11-18-2014, 10:58 PM
Yes. Nor will he have a 10 foot pull up.

Shades of Kelvin Upshaw, he actually shot & made one vs. Pacific.

Diehard Ute
11-18-2014, 11:15 PM
Just saw the UK KU score. Makes me feel much better about our day

LA Ute
11-18-2014, 11:38 PM
Yes. Nor will he have a 10 foot pull up.

Nope. Apparently he is who he is, which is pretty darn good.

Scratch
11-19-2014, 12:35 AM
While we did a decent job of not turning it over due to their press, we needed to do a better job attacking it. We have the athletes and skill to do it. We needed to make them pay for pressing but we never did.

Utebiquitous
11-19-2014, 12:44 AM
Really disappointing to see our top 3 players shoot 7 for 30 with nine turnovers. Loveridge hasn't gotten better at all -- bad turnovers, no left hand and can't hit a jumper on the road to save his life. I can cut Delon some slack because he's been so good for us, but it would be nice to see him go 2 for 13 against Ball State instead of San Diego State.

Poeltl has a nose for the ball but has no lift in his feet. Without that, he'll need to develop a face-up game.

I gotta go back and see who it was who said Chapman was a redshirt candidate. No fear in his game. To be fair, I thought it made sense to redshirt IWright, and that too would've been foolish.

First observation with no replay says we pass too much on the perimeter and don't back cut enough.

SoCal,
I'm your huckleberry on Chapman as a redshirt. I'm thrilled to see how wrong I was. The kid just plays - has a knack that I love. He'll get better throughout the year and be helping us perhaps sooner than later. I hope we'll be saying the same thing about Kuzma. Old Standing Ute commented on Chapman's shot - I agree. He really looks good shooting the ball. They'll start going in. Kuzma, on the other hand, doesn't have a nice shot. I wish that he'd change it but doing so is pretty dramatic at his age. Perhaps he'll be a strong shooter but while I think he may become someone who fills the stat sheet for us, I don't know that he'll ever be a strong shooter. Hopefully, I'll be wrong again.

As for today and hearkening back to my comments made at the same time I predicted Chapman will redshirt - I join the chorus frustrated that Delon can't shoot. I noticed it day one and we'll continue to see inconsistencies. Delon will make some but he isn't a good three-point shooter and he does not have a pull up game. It's very disappointing. Equally frustrating is Loveridge's lack of defense, inability to go left and tendency to hold onto the ball too long. We're just two games in and I'm seeing far too much dribbling and not enough ball movement. We also are not setting screens and using screens with enough detail. I'm a broken record on this point. It absolutely drives me nuts that we've put in an offense that relies on screens and cuts and yet coaches aren't holding players accountable to do so with precision. Perhaps that will happen as the season goes on and they can point it out to them on tape.

Seattle's right - we're early in the season and what a terrific opportunity early in the season. I hope we learn from it because there is enough talent and experience to finish in the Pac-12 top three and reach the Sweet 16.

Two Utes
11-19-2014, 09:07 AM
SoCal,
I'm your huckleberry on Chapman as a redshirt. I'm thrilled to see how wrong I was. The kid just plays - has a knack that I love. He'll get better throughout the year and be helping us perhaps sooner than later. I hope we'll be saying the same thing about Kuzma. Old Standing Ute commented on Chapman's shot - I agree. He really looks good shooting the ball. They'll start going in. Kuzma, on the other hand, doesn't have a nice shot. I wish that he'd change it but doing so is pretty dramatic at his age. Perhaps he'll be a strong shooter but while I think he may become someone who fills the stat sheet for us, I don't know that he'll ever be a strong shooter. Hopefully, I'll be wrong again.

As for today and hearkening back to my comments made at the same time I predicted Chapman will redshirt - I join the chorus frustrated that Delon can't shoot. I noticed it day one and we'll continue to see inconsistencies. Delon will make some but he isn't a good three-point shooter and he does not have a pull up game. It's very disappointing. Equally frustrating is Loveridge's lack of defense, inability to go left and tendency to hold onto the ball too long. We're just two games in and I'm seeing far too much dribbling and not enough ball movement. We also are not setting screens and using screens with enough detail. I'm a broken record on this point. It absolutely drives me nuts that we've put in an offense that relies on screens and cuts and yet coaches aren't holding players accountable to do so with precision. Perhaps that will happen as the season goes on and they can point it out to them on tape.

Seattle's right - we're early in the season and what a terrific opportunity early in the season. I hope we learn from it because there is enough talent and experience to finish in the Pac-12 top three and reach the Sweet 16.


Loveridge's line yesterday is worse than bad. He didn't shoot the ball well, he had only one rebound and he had five turnovers in 29 minutes. Yikes.

concerned
11-19-2014, 09:11 AM
Loveridge's line yesterday is worse than bad. He didn't shoot the ball well, he had only one rebound and he had five turnovers in 29 minutes. Yikes.


Do I get to pat myself on the back and go back to my post a while ago where I said that Loveridge is too slow and doesn't handle the ball well enough to play the 3? Time will tell I guess.

sancho
11-19-2014, 09:28 AM
Do I get to pat myself on the back and go back to my post a while ago where I said that Loveridge is too slow and doesn't handle the ball well enough to play the 3? Time will tell I guess.

Only if you're willing to eat crow every time he has a good game at the 3. Having seen Loveridge for a few years, I think there will be as many good games as bad.

concerned
11-19-2014, 09:38 AM
Only if you're willing to eat crow every time he has a good game at the 3. Having seen Loveridge for a few years, I think there will be as many good games as bad.

I would love to eat all the crow in the world.

SoCalPat
11-19-2014, 09:44 AM
Poeltl played a lot of minutes today. I hope Bach and Olsen get back into the rotation. They are both good players.

It's obvious Poeltl is the flavor of the month, but he's not so much better than Bach to be averaging 30 minutes per game. He's a better rebounder, but atrocious at the line. Bach shot nearly 80 percent from the line last year.

Olsen is an OK backup, and when given a heavier workload last year, largely failed to produce with extended minutes. Rotation-wise, he won't see much time in league play.

Diehard Ute
11-19-2014, 09:50 AM
While we did a decent job of not turning it over due to their press, we needed to do a better job attacking it. We have the athletes and skill to do it. We needed to make them pay for pressing but we never did.

All the analysis I've heard on SDSU is they rarely get beat for easy buckets on their press

SoCalPat
11-19-2014, 09:57 AM
Only if you're willing to eat crow every time he has a good game at the 3. Having seen Loveridge for a few years, I think there will be as many good games as bad.

There's the Road Loveridge (3 games in 11 last year where he shot above his season average), the Home Loveridge (10 of 18 D-1 games where he shot above his season average) and the Arizona Loveridge (5 for 32 from the field, 1 for 9 from 3). That's 13 good games in 32, and with a tougher schedule, that amounts to about 1 in 3 where we could say he had a good game. That's simplistic, but Jordan isn't exactly a stat-sheet filler.

Applejack
11-19-2014, 10:07 AM
Wasn't someone assuring us that Poeltl was a good foul shooter? The ones I saw yesterday looked really bad.

Diehard Ute
11-19-2014, 10:07 AM
SDSU has called a press conference today to discuss the future of Steve Fisher.

LA Ute
11-19-2014, 10:26 AM
Only if you're willing to eat crow every time he has a good game at the 3. Having seen Loveridge for a few years, I think there will be as many good games as bad.

And therein lies the problem. He is inconsistent. You never know which Jordan is going to show up.

LA Ute
11-19-2014, 10:29 AM
Wasn't someone assuring us that Poeltl was a good foul shooter? The ones I saw yesterday looked really bad.

It is kind of weird to watch. At times he seems to have a great touch, and at other times he throws clangers. My hope is that his demonstrated touch means that with practice, he can become a very good FT shooter. We certainly need him to be one.

sancho
11-19-2014, 10:34 AM
It is kind of weird to watch. At times he seems to have a great touch, and at other times he throws clangers. My hope is that his demonstrated touch means that with practice, he can become a very good FT shooter. We certainly need him to be one.

Yes, it would also be nice if he had a 10 foot jumper, like Bach.

LA Ute
11-19-2014, 10:49 AM
Yes, it would also be nice if he had a 10 foot jumper, like Bach.

It sounds like you are defending Bach. There's no need to do that with me. Whichever of those two guys gives us the best chance to win ought to be on the floor. Bach has limitations. It looks like Poeltl does too. At least Poeltl has hands and has obvious upside. I am afraid Bach has reached his ceiling. But I will go with whatever Larry decides.

U-Ute
11-19-2014, 10:51 AM
While we did a decent job of not turning it over due to their press, we needed to do a better job attacking it. We have the athletes and skill to do it. We needed to make them pay for pressing but we never did.

This comes with recognition by both the man with the ball and players without the ball making the right cuts. That will come with time. We have a lot of guys with high basketball IQ's.

sancho
11-19-2014, 10:53 AM
It sounds like you are defending Bach. There's no need to do that with me. Whichever of those two guys gives us the best chance to win ought to be on the floor. Bach has limitations. It looks like Poeltl does too. At least Poeltl has hands and has obvious upside. I am afraid Bach has reached his ceiling. But I will go with whatever Larry decides.

Poeltl is the obvious starter. I just think Bach is too good to have him on the bench for 35 minutes. We'll see how the minutes end up playing out. I'm guessing that Poeltl won't have the legs to go 35 per game.

SeattleUte
11-19-2014, 11:01 AM
I woke up this morning and suddenly it hit me. The Utes just played the no. 16 team in the nation, which has an iconic coach, which is experienced with a lot of returning players, on their floor, with two new Ute starters including a true freshman at center, and we had a chance to win with less than 20 seconds to go in the game.

U-Ute
11-19-2014, 11:03 AM
It's obvious Poeltl is the flavor of the month, but he's not so much better than Bach to be averaging 30 minutes per game. He's a better rebounder, but atrocious at the line. Bach shot nearly 80 percent from the line last year.

http://www.utahutes.com/sports/m-baskbl/stats/2012-2013/teamcume.html

His first year, Bachynski was 63%. Although it was obvious at the time that Dallin had a stroke which could turn him into a good FT shooter. Poeltl is the same way. He just needs the in-game shots to get the confidence. He's aiming his shots because he doesn't trust his stroke. I believe we will see those numbers increase as he gets more comfortable.

It is obvious Poeltl will improve much more quickly than Dallin. He already has many of the tools and just needs the reps. The SDSU game was probably the first game in his life where he saw a double-team with guys that long and quick. The next few teams that try to double him will probably appear like they're running in mud to get to him. If they don't double him, I bet we see much more offensive production from him.

U-Ute
11-19-2014, 11:07 AM
Wasn't someone assuring us that Poeltl was a good foul shooter? The ones I saw yesterday looked really bad.

His form his good: he gets his legs into it, has a good arc (which is rare for big guys), and shoots with rhythm. He's just aiming his shots, which is why they're landing all over the rim. He just lacks confidence.

Think about a QB who tries to aim the ball instead of trusting his mechanics and letting it rip. Same idea.

SoCalPat
11-19-2014, 11:10 AM
SDSU has called a press conference today to discuss the future of Steve Fisher.

Signed 3-year extension. Was actually a lame duck heading into this year. Some speculated he would retire after this year.

U-Ute
11-19-2014, 11:12 AM
Poeltl is the obvious starter. I just think Bach is too good to have him on the bench for 35 minutes. We'll see how the minutes end up playing out. I'm guessing that Poeltl won't have the legs to go 35 per game.

I suspect that Larry is trying to get Poeltl as much playing time as possible. We know who Bachynski is, and I think you'll see the minutes level out as we get closer to conference play.

U-Ute
11-19-2014, 11:14 AM
I woke up this morning and suddenly it hit me. The Utes just played the no. 16 team in the nation, which has an iconic coach, which is experienced with a lot of returning players, on their floor, with two new Ute starters including a true freshman at center, and we had a chance to win with less than 20 seconds to go in the game.

This.

Add in how well the 4 newcomers fared and the high ceiling on the freshmen, and it will really get your morning going.

Diehard Ute
11-19-2014, 11:18 AM
Signed 3-year extension. Was actually a lame duck heading into this year. Some speculated he would retire after this year.

Apparently he will still make a retirement decision in March

UtahsMrSports
11-19-2014, 12:04 PM
I think the minutes in the middle will come down night to night on matchups. Yesterday, Poeltl was clearly the best matchup, with Bach also able to provide something. Olsen would have been a bad insertion at both ends of the court.

Some nights, as we go against teams with physically stronger and maybe not as agile centers, Olsen and Bach will likely get more time.

sancho
11-19-2014, 12:10 PM
I woke up this morning and suddenly it hit me. The Utes just played the no. 16 team in the nation, which has an iconic coach, which is experienced with a lot of returning players, on their floor, with two new Ute starters including a true freshman at center, and we had a chance to win with less than 20 seconds to go in the game.

Sure, hard to get too down about a road loss to a good team, but it still stinks lose a winnable game to a mid major. It's not like there was anything overly impressive about SDSU.

SeattleUte
11-19-2014, 04:21 PM
Sure, hard to get too down about a road loss to a good team, but it still stinks lose a winnable game to a mid major. It's not like there was anything overly impressive about SDSU.

SDSU has been respected by the polls and the selection committee for many years, and the distinction between mid-major and major is not so important in basketball. Nobody would be shocked if Arizona went to San Diego State and lost. Fisher is remembered for his national championshp and he's done something at SDSU somewhat like Majerus did at Utah.

We should be celebrating that Reyes can contribute at this level. We've seen that these JUCOS are hit and miss.

sancho
11-19-2014, 04:56 PM
SDSU has been respected by the polls and the selection committee for many years, and the distinction between mid-major and major is not so important in basketball. Nobody would be shocked if Arizona went to San Diego State and lost. Fisher is remembered for his national championshp and he's done something at SDSU somewhat like Majerus did at Utah.


Yes, I know they are good. There are many mid majors with stronger programs than we have right now. It's a pride thing though.

Utebiquitous
11-19-2014, 05:14 PM
Good perspective Seattle and I like Reyes a lot. We have him for three years. It will be terrific having a kid that physical and who strikes me as a consummate team guy.

My bitterness is still high when looking at how we do - or don't do - the little things that are essential to good offense. We'll see what improves.

Mormon Red Death
11-19-2014, 06:40 PM
I think the minutes in the middle will come down night to night on matchups. Yesterday, Poeltl was clearly the best matchup, with Bach also able to provide something. Olsen would have been a bad insertion at both ends of the court.

Some nights, as we go against teams with physically stronger and maybe not as agile centers, Olsen and Bach will likely get more time.

I disagree. We could get no offense why not try Olsen. he does have some low post moves.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk 2

justaute
11-19-2014, 06:59 PM
Agreed. Many people seem to focus on "oh we just played #whatever team", "it's early in the season", "we only lost by xx", "look at his/team's average stats", etc; when someone tries to share any type less-than-stellar observation, he/she is met with these responses. There's a lot of context at play, win or lose. It's not always binary. I'm a Utah fan, not a Utah homer -- I'll leave that do others. It's just sports, not personal affliction.




My bitterness is still high when looking at how we do - or don't do - the little things that are essential to good offense. We'll see what improves.

UtahsMrSports
11-19-2014, 09:15 PM
I disagree. We could get no offense why not try Olsen. he does have some low post moves.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk 2

Yes, I certainly agree that Olsen has the best moves on the block. The problem was that in that game, we were having a hard time feeding the post. And if you cant get him the ball, what good is he? I ask that seriously. And its not a knock on JO. JO is going to be most effective against a team like BYU whose front court is a bunch of stiffs. Put him in the midst of swarming, athletic defenders, and he struggles.

Old Standing ute
11-19-2014, 09:52 PM
Yes, I certainly agree that Olsen has the best moves on the block. The problem was that in that game, we were having a hard time feeding the post. And if you cant get him the ball, what good is he? I ask that seriously. And its not a knock on JO. JO is going to be most effective against a team like BYU whose front court is a bunch of stiffs. Put him in the midst of swarming, athletic defenders, and he struggles.

JO had 19 blocks for the entire season last year---Poeltl had 7 in this game. that plus his 12 rebounds kept us in the game.
JO can play with a team that plays below the rim---like BYU. At some point he may play with Poeltl, they have done that at practice, but to do so either Reyes or Brekkot sits. Ouch.
next year he will be the backup at 5 when Dallin graduates--so we need to keep him happy so he does not graduate & transfer---although the trip to China was a nice perk.

UtahsMrSports
11-19-2014, 10:12 PM
JO had 19 blocks for the entire season last year---Poeltl had 7 in this game. that plus his 12 rebounds kept us in the game.
JO can play with a team that plays below the rim---like BYU. At some point he may play with Poeltl, they have done that at practice, but to do so either Reyes or Brekkot sits. Ouch.
next year he will be the backup at 5 when Dallin graduates--so we need to keep him happy so he does not graduate & transfer---although the trip to China was a nice perk.

That is what I love about the depth of this team. I think you will see times where JO is out there with Poeltl and maybe times where Reyes and Chapman man hte 4 and 5.

And I agree. JO will be the backup 5 next year, but he will be battling Makol Mawien for those back up minutes.

SoCalPat
11-20-2014, 09:42 AM
Yes, I certainly agree that Olsen has the best moves on the block. The problem was that in that game, we were having a hard time feeding the post. And if you cant get him the ball, what good is he? I ask that seriously. And its not a knock on JO. JO is going to be most effective against a team like BYU whose front court is a bunch of stiffs. Put him in the midst of swarming, athletic defenders, and he struggles.

Not sure feeding the post is the most effective/efficient method of offense for this team. We don't have that scorer in the low block that, as soon as he touches the ball, you can put a deuce in the book. And we don't have the 3-point shooters to make teams pay for doubling the post when the ball is fed there. That's exactly why our last NCAA team was so effective -- a dominant big in Nevill and 4 guys on the floor that could shoot the 3. We don't have 4 guys on the entire roster that can flirt with hitting 40 percent from 3.

Our offense should be running Delon through double screens and getting him the ball in positions where defenders have to make a choice. There is very little purpose to the offense we run -- way too much passing on the perimeter, screens are ineffective and we don't back cut enough to make teams pay for overplaying the ball.

SoCalPat
11-20-2014, 09:49 AM
It is kind of weird to watch. At times he seems to have a great touch, and at other times he throws clangers. My hope is that his demonstrated touch means that with practice, he can become a very good FT shooter. We certainly need him to be one.

I think Poeltl does the same thing a lot of young players do -- he watches the ball during flight rather than focusing on the rim. He's never shot in gyms this big, so if he's watching the ball, his depth perception is really gonna be messed up. It's not too differently to a football team that plays in a dome for the first time, especially on passing plays. It takes some time to get used to.

LA Ute
11-20-2014, 09:54 AM
Our offense should be running Delon through double screens and getting him the ball in positions where defenders have to make a choice. There is very little purpose to the offense we run -- way too much passing on the perimeter, screens are ineffective and we don't back cut enough to make teams pay for overplaying the ball.

What we saw against SDSU reminds me of last season. I'll be attending the Thanksgiving Week games in person and I hope to see the team start developing the true motion offense that you describe, which I understand is what Larry is trying to do.

sancho
11-20-2014, 10:03 AM
We don't have 4 guys on the entire roster that can flirt with hitting 40 percent from 3.


Chicken and egg, I think. If we had the post presence to get people open 3's, their percentages would go up. Our percentages are low in part because we force a lot of our three point attempts.

LA Ute
11-20-2014, 10:08 AM
Chicken and egg, I think. If we had the post presence to get people open 3's, their percentages would go up. Our percentages are low in part because we force a lot of our three point attempts.

You mean like throwing one up as the shot clock expires after 33 seconds of perimeter passes? IIRC we only saw that a few times against SDSU but I hope we see it less and less.

U-Ute
11-20-2014, 10:14 AM
I disagree. We could get no offense why not try Olsen. he does have some low post moves.

If he has 10 minutes to get each one of them off.

SoCalPat
11-20-2014, 10:48 AM
You mean like throwing one up as the shot clock expires after 33 seconds of perimeter passes? IIRC we only saw that a few times against SDSU but I hope we see it less and less.

I remember Brekkot taking a 3 early in the clock. We need that kind of fearlessness, because I'm guessing our guys are taught that they can get better shots deeper into the clock. Against elite defensive teams, you should be happy to take the first good shot that opens up.

Old Standing ute
11-20-2014, 11:55 AM
I think Poeltl does the same thing a lot of young players do -- he watches the ball during flight rather than focusing on the rim. He's never shot in gyms this big, so if he's watching the ball, his depth perception is really gonna be messed up. It's not too differently to a football team that plays in a dome for the first time, especially on passing plays. It takes some time to get used to.

Plus in his video from playing in Austria the "crowd" numbered in the 100's (if that), so now he is not only in a new country but on a much bigger stage. When he is playing he is fine--when everyone stops for free throws & he gets a chance to look around & think about where he is--he appears to get nervous & aims his shots.
Hopefully that passes with more home games with "friendly" crowds.

UtahsMrSports
11-20-2014, 12:05 PM
Not sure feeding the post is the most effective/efficient method of offense for this team. We don't have that scorer in the low block that, as soon as he touches the ball, you can put a deuce in the book. And we don't have the 3-point shooters to make teams pay for doubling the post when the ball is fed there. That's exactly why our last NCAA team was so effective -- a dominant big in Nevill and 4 guys on the floor that could shoot the 3. We don't have 4 guys on the entire roster that can flirt with hitting 40 percent from 3.

Our offense should be running Delon through double screens and getting him the ball in positions where defenders have to make a choice. There is very little purpose to the offense we run -- way too much passing on the perimeter, screens are ineffective and we don't back cut enough to make teams pay for overplaying the ball.

I agree, and I am hoping that this gets fixed in these few warm up games we have coming up.

I remember walking out of the JMHC once during that 2009 season and someone said "isn't amazing what we did, and Luke didnt even play well! bodes well for the future!" Not really. The team could still play well when Luke was having an off night since he was such a force. Without luke in the lineup, there was more attention on the other guys and it made them quit (Carlon Brown), or pout (Luka Drca). 2009-2010 was a trainwreck and I knew it right off the bat when Idaho looked like the San Antonio Spurs against us.

If he comes out of college in the 70s or 80s, Luke is a for sure draft pick. Just a different era in the pros now.

Speaking of this, and I know its off topic, but does anyone remember that stretch in Jimmy B's first year when he would have Luke begin games on the bench and then essentially sub him in two or three possessions into the game? Of all the head scratching things Jim did, that was right up there.

But to your point on our offense, you are right, we really dont have a dominant interior presence yet (it is impressive that SDSU dobled POeltl on the catch), and we dont have a lot of knockdown shooters to keep t hings spaced (why I am arguing for PVD to come back). We really need our guys to move, set picks, cut, and work different angles to get the right shots. We also need times where Delon just says "I got this" and goes to work. Of all the shortcomings in Delon's game, I think that is my biggest. I want him to go into beast mode more often. He can do it.

SoCalPat
11-20-2014, 01:27 PM
I agree, and I am hoping that this gets fixed in these few warm up games we have coming up.

I remember walking out of the JMHC once during that 2009 season and someone said "isn't amazing what we did, and Luke didnt even play well! bodes well for the future!" Not really. The team could still play well when Luke was having an off night since he was such a force. Without luke in the lineup, there was more attention on the other guys and it made them quit (Carlon Brown), or pout (Luka Drca). 2009-2010 was a trainwreck and I knew it right off the bat when Idaho looked like the San Antonio Spurs against us.

If he comes out of college in the 70s or 80s, Luke is a for sure draft pick. Just a different era in the pros now.

Speaking of this, and I know its off topic, but does anyone remember that stretch in Jimmy B's first year when he would have Luke begin games on the bench and then essentially sub him in two or three possessions into the game? Of all the head scratching things Jim did, that was right up there.

But to your point on our offense, you are right, we really dont have a dominant interior presence yet (it is impressive that SDSU dobled POeltl on the catch), and we dont have a lot of knockdown shooters to keep t hings spaced (why I am arguing for PVD to come back). We really need our guys to move, set picks, cut, and work different angles to get the right shots. We also need times where Delon just says "I got this" and goes to work. Of all the shortcomings in Delon's game, I think that is my biggest. I want him to go into beast mode more often. He can do it.

I thought the same thing initially, but then I realized most teams double huge threats or big weaknesses. Teams trap Taylor because he's small. Teams double Poeltl because he's likely never been asked to pass out of a double-team his entire life.

It's another reason why Poeltl is a liability when teams press us. He's a great outlet, but again, he's never been a passer his entire life. We missed a couple opportunities to punish SDSU against the press because Poeltl was hesitant in passing the ball to someone cutting to the basket.

FountainOfUte
11-20-2014, 01:39 PM
Plus in his video from playing in Austria the "crowd" numbered in the 100's (if that), so now he is not only in a new country but on a much bigger stage. When he is playing he is fine--when everyone stops for free throws & he gets a chance to look around & think about where he is--he appears to get nervous & aims his shots.
Hopefully that passes with more home games with "friendly" crowds.

I agree with this "distraction theory," whether it's due to new environs or fatigue in a faster game against better competition than he's ever seen in his life.

In any case, I'm encouraged by the FTs that he *IS* making. I'm no shooting coach, but I know what a natural, soft touch looks like. He has it. The FTs he makes are perfect. The ball is straight, the rotation is good, and it just tickles the twines. He just needs to figure out how to do THAT at a higher percentage. Which, given that he's played all of two games, I'm 100% certain he'll do.

There are some guys who have no touch and even the FTs they make seem like an accident. Shaq is the extreme example. I don't think that's Jakob's problem. He just needs the game to slow down for him. Get to where the FT shot is automatic and subconscious. He's thinking about everything simultaneously which means he's focused on nothing. By the time he's done on the Hill, I'm certain his FT woes will be a distant memory. That may even happen this year.

sancho
11-20-2014, 02:08 PM
I agree with this "distraction theory," whether it's due to new environs or fatigue in a faster game against better competition than he's ever seen in his life.

Yes, Poeltl's FT shooting is pretty far down on the list of my concerns for Utah basketball.