Red Rocks 2015

[U-Ute]

We went to the UCLA meet friday night, and they looked pretty awesome. The freshmen really stepped up and are producing good scores.

This team looks like they have a shot to go all the way.

[LA Ute]

Kinda cool:

Pac-12 moves gymnastics championship to University of Utah (http://pac-12.com/article/2015/02/12/pac-12-moves-gymnastics-championship-university-utah?utm_source=HootSuite&utm_medium=OwnedSocial&utm_campaign=Pac12Social)
Looks like the reason was mainly a scheduling conflict but it's nice to be the default back-up choice, and the article says some nice things about the atmosphere for gymnastics at the Huntsman.

[Snowman]

It's awesome that they're bringing in 14-15 thousand people to the Huntsman Center and their average GPA is over 3.7. Great athletes. Great students. They're doing the U proud!

[U-Ute]

I find it somewhat comforting that the Red Rocks and the Running Utes are carrying the banner for us right now. It just seems right somehow.

That being said, the future sure looks bright for the Red Rocks. The youngsters are really putting up big numbers.

[concerned]

Great NYT article

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/26/sports/at-packed-utah-womens-gymnastics-meets-marketing-earns-high-scores-too.html?hpw&rref=sports&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=well-region&region=bottom-well&WT.nav=bottom-well

[Diehard Ute]

Gymnasts won the 2015 Pac12 title last night. Unfortunately they lost senior co-captain and 2015 Pac12 vault champion to an injury during her floor routine.

She ruptured her Achilles' tendon and broke the metatarsals on her opposite foot when she landed. She's having surgery on both legs in the morning and will be unable to walk for 6-8 weeks.

[U-Ute]

Greg Marsden retires.

http://www.utahutes.com/sports/w-gym/spec-rel/042015aab.html

40 years. That seems impossible in this day and age.

[Diehard Ute]

Utes hire Meredith Paulicivic as the assistant coach for gymnastics.

Fans will remember her as All-American Meredith King from the early 90's

She was an assistant and head club coach for 18 years prior to taking an assistant job at Arizona in 2014.

http://www.utahutes.com/sports/w-gym/spec-rel/042215aaa.html


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[concerned]

This thread appears to be a year old, but what the heck. We got season tickets to take our daughter this year. A few questions for Diehard or anyone else from someone whose only knowledge of gymnastics is Olga Korbut in the Olympics.

1. What is the strategy, if any, for ordering your gymnasts on a particular event? Do you put your strongest last, and your next strongest 1st? Hide your weakest second and third?

2, What flexibility do you have in using different gymnasts for different events? Can you use 6 for vault and a completely different 6 for bars? Are there restrictions on how many you can use during a meet?

3. Do routines all have the same elements, or do some gymnasts do harder elements than others (like a triple somersault instead of a double). is there a degree of difficulty metric in college gymnastics scoring?

4. Are some events more difficult to score well than others. It appears that teams generally get lower scores on beam than floor exercise, for example. Are certain events considered to lend themselves to high scores more than others? If your last routine is beam and your opponent's is floor, do you basically know you are likely going to lose if you don't have a fairly good lead going into the last rotation?

5. Is there a strategy for ordering the events or rotations? Is is standard in a dual meet that vault is paired with bars first and beam with floor second? Do teams get to pick the order (like choosing whether to kick off or receive in football)? Does the home team want floor to be its last rotation for strategic reasons? Does either the visiting team or the home team have a say in the rotation order, or is it pretty standard from meet to meet.

Just curious. Thanks in advance.

[Diehard Ute]

This thread appears to be a year old, but what the heck. We got season tickets to take our daughter this year. A few questions for Diehard or anyone else from someone whose only knowledge of gymnastics is Olga Korbut in the Olympics.



1. What is the strategy, if any, for ordering your gymnasts on a particular event? Do you put your strongest last, and your next strongest 1st? Hide your weakest second and third?

2, What flexibility do you have in using different gymnasts for different events? Can you use 6 for vault and a completely different 6 for bars? Are there restrictions on how many you can use during a meet?

3. Do routines all have the same elements, or do some gymnasts do harder elements than others (like a triple somersault instead of a double). is there a degree of difficulty metric in college gymnastics scoring?

4. Are some events more difficult to score well than others. It appears that teams generally get lower scores on beam than floor exercise, for example. Are certain events considered to lend themselves to high scores more than others? If your last routine is beam and your opponent's is floor, do you basically know you are likely going to lose if you don't have a fairly good lead going into the last rotation?

5. Is there a strategy for ordering the events or rotations? Is is standard in a dual meet that vault is paired with bars first and beam with floor second? Do teams get to pick the order (like choosing whether to kick off or receive in football)? Does the home team want floor to be its last rotation for strategic reasons? Does either the visiting team or the home team have a say in the rotation order, or is it pretty standard from meet to meet.

Just curious. Thanks in advance.

I'll just go by number since trying to go under yours on a phone is tough.

1) You usually try and order from weakest to strongest in each event. You want your best gymnasts finishing as the scoring tends to creep up. Occasionally you'll "hide" someone at the end who is struggling or who is trying a new routine.

2) There's no limits on who can compete or any other restrictions on how you make up your lineup.

3) Each gymnast does different routines. Some will do more difficulty than others. Each element is assigned a difficulty value. To get to a 10.0 start value there are certain required elements. Not all gymnasts do 10.0 (most of your top 20 teams do, lower schools may not). For instance a Triple Twist or Full-In on floor are 'E' elements. A double pike or double tuck are 'D'. E is the hardest. A is the easiest.

4) Beam is the hardest event. Vault was the easiest although they devalued the Yurchenko Full this year so scores are lower there. I would say bars and floor are about equal in difficulty. Road teams in a dual meet format always finish on beam. If your trailing on the road in the last rotation you're not going to win very often.

5) Dual meets always have the home team with "Olympic" rotation which is vault, bars, beam then floor. That's the most desirable rotation and the home team will always have that. In the post season the rotation is a random draw.




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[concerned]

Very helpful. Thanks. Do you know if there is anyplace 8 could get more info on the standard degree of difficulty for different elements as you describe and which ones the U gymnasts do in their routines. Are they published on a scorecard before the meet or anything like that. Thanks very much.

[Diehard Ute]

Very helpful. Thanks. Do you know if there is anyplace 8 could get more info on the standard degree of difficulty for different elements as you describe and which ones the U gymnasts do in their routines. Are they published on a scorecard before the meet or anything like that. Thanks very much.

The routines actually change throughout the year so they don't publish them usually. What a gymnast does the first couple weeks of the season won't be what they do the last week.

And even within a meet that routine may change. Utah often has a 'safe' routine for those times when they're needing a solid hit vs the chance for a really big score.

The judging system changes ever 4 years and it changed this year. This link details that, but a lot of it is very technical

https://www.collegegymfans.com/results-and-news/item/5678-women-s-ncaa-code-modfications-2016-2017.html

I can tell you as of now all Utah gymnasts but 1 are doing a vault that is worth a maximum of 9.95 if done perfectly. The other 3 events every routine is worth the full 10.0 if perfect


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[concerned]

I'll just go by number since trying to go under yours on a phone is tough.

1) You usually try and order from weakest to strongest in each event. You want your best gymnasts finishing as the scoring tends to creep up. Occasionally you'll "hide" someone at the end who is struggling or who is trying a new routine.

2) There's no limits on who can compete or any other restrictions on how you make up your lineup.

3) Each gymnast does different routines. Some will do more difficulty than others. Each element is assigned a difficulty value. To get to a 10.0 start value there are certain required elements. Not all gymnasts do 10.0 (most of your top 20 teams do, lower schools may not). For instance a Triple Twist or Full-In on floor are 'E' elements. A double pike or double tuck are 'D'. E is the hardest. A is the easiest.

4) Beam is the hardest event. Vault was the easiest although they devalued the Yurchenko Full this year so scores are lower there. I would say bars and floor are about equal in difficulty. Road teams in a dual meet format always finish on beam. If your trailing on the road in the last rotation you're not going to win very often.

5) Dual meets always have the home team with "Olympic" rotation which is vault, bars, beam then floor. That's the most desirable rotation and the home team will always have that. In the post season the rotation is a random draw.




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What you said about the road team needing a good lead going into Tha last rotation certainly proved true today. We had a lead but not one big enough. Good showing though.

[Diehard Ute]

What you said about the road team needing a good lead going into Tha last rotation certainly proved true today. We had a lead but not one big enough. Good showing though.

The score will help us immensely as road scores are more important

I didn't get to watch the meet, but it's always a head scratcher when the home team starts with a 9.625 the. Throws 5 straight routines that get at least one 9.95.

I enjoy gym. The judging part of gym s drives me crazy.


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[Diehard Ute]

And I should say, the way the team has responded after losing Kari Lee has been impressive.

The Utes have a lot of talent, but it's mostly young talent. Next years team will have a lot of firepower, especially with MyKayla Skinner arriving next year (She deferred to try and make the olympics. She's won two world championships gold medals as a member of the US team)




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[Dwight Schr-Ute]

And I should say, the way the team has responded after losing Kari Lee has been impressive.

The Utes have a lot of talent, but it's mostly young talent. Next years team will have a lot of firepower, especially with MyKayla Skinner arriving next year (She deferred to try and make the olympics. She's won two world championships gold medals as a member of the US team)




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I'm not sure why, (I do, obviously.) but I initially read that as her being a member of the US Ski Team.



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[Diehard Ute]

I'm not sure why, (I do, obviously.) but I initially read that as her being a member of the US Ski Team.



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Haha, she's not Andy Phillps part deux.


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[U-Ute]

The score will help us immensely as road scores are more important

I didn't get to watch the meet, but it's always a head scratcher when the home team starts with a 9.625 the. Throws 5 straight routines that get at least one 9.95.

I enjoy gym. The judging part of gym s drives me crazy.


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We watched it. The girl fell down on the first routine, and the rest of the routines were all pretty amazing. The scoring was legit. You have to give UCLA credit.

[Diehard Ute]

We watched it. The girl fell down on the first routine, and the rest of the routines were all pretty amazing. The scoring was legit. You have to give UCLA credit.

Well if she fell that's a bigger indictment of the judging as a fall is a mandatory 0.5 deduction.

Read many posts from people who I know and trust when it comes to scoring. They're all in agreement the judging was mediocre at best.


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[U-Ute]

Well if she fell that's a bigger indictment of the judging as a fall is a mandatory 0.5 deduction.

Read many posts from people who I know and trust when it comes to scoring. They're all in agreement the judging was mediocre at best.


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I certainly don't know all of the subtleties, so from the perspective of a casual fan who has seen a lot of meets, it didn't seem amiss.

[Diehard Ute]

I certainly don't know all of the subtleties, so from the perspective of a casual fan who has seen a lot of meets, it didn't seem amiss.

Here's a great tweet from Greg Marsden showing the issues. In this case a vault that should never get a 9.85

https://twitter.com/pac12marz/status/696732863505440768




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[Diehard Ute]

Team puts up a 197.15 to beat Stanford on the road.

First time in 32 years the team competes without Megan Marsden coaching beam. She's back at the hotel with the flu.

The road score is big, it'll keep us about where we are in the rankings. Two more road meets before senior night.


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[Sullyute]

I love your updates here. Keep them coming.

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[concerned]

What is Georgia ranked? Anybody know?

[chrisrenrut]

What is Georgia ranked? Anybody know?

I thought I saw they were ranked #9 right now. Definitely a higher number than Utah, but in the single digits.

[Diehard Ute]

This isn't Georgia from the glory days. Since Suzanne Yoculan retired they've struggled. While they usually hover just inside the Top 10 they haven't really been a part of the national discussion for the last few years.


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[concerned]

Thanks you two.

[Diehard Ute]

Utes win, putting up a 197.675. Maddy Stover injured on floor. No word what it is yet.


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[concerned]

Utes win, putting up a 197.675. Maddy Stover injured on floor. No word what it is yet.


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levation
That would explain why she stumbled badly on the floor, landing on her knees. Got a 9.3. She got no elevation on either of her jumps (see--I am an expert already.)

[Diehard Ute]

levation
That would explain why she stumbled badly on the floor, landing on her knees. Got a 9.3. She got no elevation on either of her jumps (see--I am an expert already.)

I knew something was wrong on the first pass, was a bit surprised she continued

As soon as the routine ended Megan and Katie, the trainer, met her. They immediately signaled to the team physicians. (Who happen to sit right in front of me).

The orthopedic doc never came back out of the tunnel.


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[Diehard Ute]

It's a shoulder injury. Injured if during beam and tried to compete through it. Unknown if she will be back or not


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[Diehard Ute]

So Utah is the #1 seed for the Pac12 championship.

But because gymnastics does stupid things they'll have to start the meet on beam. A far tougher task than starting on vault.

Instead of using the regular season finish as the way to decide who starts where, the conference used a "random draw". Meaning Utah drew beam, while #2 seeded UCLA gets to start on vault.

It's stuff like this that keeps "normal" sports fans from actually following NCAA gymnastics. It's a complicated sport with rules that make no sense


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[concerned]

It's a shoulder injury. Injured if during beam and tried to compete through it. Unknown if she will be back or not


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how big of a loss if she is out?

[Diehard Ute]

how big of a loss if she is out?

It hurts. She's our beam anchor.


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[Diehard Ute]

Good news. Injury was likely a bicep tendon dislocation. Maddy will likely be able to stay on the beam rotation. Samantha Partyka will take her spot on floor


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[Diehard Ute]

And good turns to bad. Stover has a torn labrum. Out for Pac12's, slim chance she's back for regionals.

Merrell takes her spot on bean, Partyka to floor. Means Kailah Delaney needs to stop her beam struggles as she can't be replaced now


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[concerned]

Was Delaney the one who fell on Saturday?

[Diehard Ute]

Was Delaney the one who fell on Saturday?

Yes. She's fallen twice in the last 3 meets.


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[LA Ute]

Another Ute athlete wins PAC-12 Scholar Athlete of the year:

https://www.facebook.com/uathletics/photos/a.104897645959.110989.18995940959/10153989901690960/?type=3&theater


Congratulations to Breanna Hughes, your Pac-12 Gymnastics Scholar-Athlete of the Year! Hughes holds a 3.965 GPA while double majoring in human development and family studies; and health, society and policy. Plus she ranks No. 10 in the nation in the all-around and has career highs on every event this season. The definition of impressive! #goutes (https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/goutes)

[Diehard Ute]

8 Utes made first or second team all Pac12.

The Utes get another shot at UCLA in regionals. Their draw is a bit better. (The NCAA is stupid too and assigns rotations by blind draw. So the worst team in each region got the best draw)




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[concerned]

8 Utes made first or second team all Pac12.

The Utes get another shot at UCLA in regionals. Their draw is a bit better. (The NCAA is stupid too and assigns rotations by blind draw. So the worst team in each region got the best draw)




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Will stover be back?

[Diehard Ute]

Will stover be back?

Unknown still. They have over a week before the meet. I'm not terribly optimistic given she was in a sling with a torn labrum last Saturday.

I don't think it will be an issue even if she's not. The Pac12 meet was a "perfect storm". First meet without Stover, having to start on beam with a young team.

This time we start on a bye before going to bars, a good event to get the nervous energy out and one we excel on. UCLA has to start on Beam




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[concerned]

Diehard--why did the only sell lower bowl seats for the regional yesterday?

[Diehard Ute]

Diehard--why did the only sell lower bowl seats for the regional yesterday?

Regionals is a tougher sell. The most we ever sold was about 10,000. They decided they'd rather have a full lower bowl than a slightly fuller whole arena. (The U doesn't get to set prices or offer promotions for NCAA events)

I also think the date had something to do with it. It was concert weekend and Bieber was in town. Both take people away from the meet.


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