The Larry Krystkowiak Thread

[LA Ute]

The guy deserves his own thread. For starters:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SliKARKzfT4

[LA Ute]

What started me thinking about this thread was the question of whether Larry might be interested in the Texas job (I don't think so) and if not, what jobs would Larry leave Utah for? He does seem happy at Utah, and he's not the sort of coach (cough-cough rick majerus cough-cough) who will entertain discussions with every big program that bats its eyelashes at him. Still, there are probably jobs out there that he simply could not say no to. Which ones are they? My nominees:

Indiana
North Carolina
Duke
UCLA? (Not too sure about this one.)

Am I on track? Any others?

[Two Utes]

What started me thinking about this thread was the question of whether Larry might be interested in the Texas job (I don't think so) and if not, what jobs Larry would he leave Utah for? He does seem happy, and he's not the sort of coach (cough-cough rick majerus cough-cough) who will entertain discussions with every big program that bats its eyelashes at him. Still, there are probably jobs out there that he simply could not say no to. Which ones are they? My nominees:

Indiana
North Carolina
Duke
UCLA? (Not too sure about this one.)

Am I on track? Any others?

Sand Diego State?

USC?

Washington?

Stanford?

[Diehard Ute]

Not sure there are that many

Larry (and his wife) have talked about how they both want to stay put for a while after moving every 1.5 years on average.

The house they just moved into this year, as the photos of the team in the theater room, is quite impressive from what I'm told. Indoor basketball court for starters.

Larry also has made it known he really loves the mountain west. And I'm guessing he's been pretty smart with his NBA cash as well.

I'm sure there are "dream jobs", everyone has them, but I'm not sure it'll be a big list for him.

[Utebiquitous]

I don't think USC or Washington would be on his list. Stanford would probably be seen on equal footing as Utah by him. Perhaps San Diego St. because it's such a great town - they loved living there. What I've learned is that if it were up to Larry he might retire here. Larry's wife is the one with a little wanderlust. She does love SLC and I think they are here for at least another three to four years. If/when they leave it won't just need to be an incredible offer at a top institution. I don't know that even that will be enough for Larry. It will take his wife telling him she wants a change.

[SoCalPat]

What started me thinking about this thread was the question of whether Larry might be interested in the Texas job (I don't think so) and if not, what jobs would Larry leave Utah for? He does seem happy at Utah, and he's not the sort of coach (cough-cough rick majerus cough-cough) who will entertain discussions with every big program that bats its eyelashes at him. Still, there are probably jobs out there that he simply could not say no to. Which ones are they? My nominees:

Indiana
North Carolina
Duke
UCLA? (Not too sure about this one.)

Am I on track? Any others?

It is wildly presumptive to think any of those schools would ever have Larry on their radar. The Carolina Family would revolt, and likely Duke as well, what with the legions of qualified alumni they have.

[LA Ute]

It is wildly presumptive to think any of those schools would ever have Larry on their radar. The Carolina Family would revolt, and likely Duke as well, what with the legions of qualified alumni they have.

I'm just spitballin'. From what I've heard it is a short list, whatever schools might be on it.

Stanford would be painful to see happen.

[DrumNFeather]

What started me thinking about this thread was the question of whether Larry might be interested in the Texas job (I don't think so) and if not, what jobs would Larry leave Utah for? He does seem happy at Utah, and he's not the sort of coach (cough-cough rick majerus cough-cough) who will entertain discussions with every big program that bats its eyelashes at him. Still, there are probably jobs out there that he simply could not say no to. Which ones are they? My nominees:

Indiana
North Carolina
Duke
UCLA? (Not too sure about this one.)

Am I on track? Any others?

I've read that if Indiana moves on from Tom Creen, Brad Stevens is their target.

[LA Ute]

Further response to SCPat: I'm not saying which schools would offer Larry, just wildly speculating about what kind of job it would take to get him to leave. This is what fans do in the off-season. Within a few weeks we'll be talking about the details of the U's Under Armour deal.

[311ute]

San Diego St is one I would keep an eye on. I know Larry still has a place there and loves San Diego (who doesn't?). Steve Fischer obviously doesn't have a lot of time left before he retires, so I could see them making a strong push for Larry in a couple years.

If UCLA or Arizona ever came knocking I'm not sure Larry could say no. I couldn't see him bolting for any other Pac-12 job, but Stanford or Washington would be possible. Stanford will be looking for a coach next year, so maybe they come after Larry. Possibly Washington as well. Those jobs (along with Cal and Oregon) are the next tier (after UofA and UCLA) in terms of best coaching jobs in the conference.

[SoCalPat]

San Diego St is one I would keep an eye on. I know Larry still has a place there and loves San Diego (who doesn't?). Steve Fischer obviously doesn't have a lot of time left before he retires, so I could see them making a strong push for Larry in a couple years.

If UCLA or Arizona ever came knocking I'm not sure Larry could say no. I couldn't see him bolting for any other Pac-12 job, but Stanford or Washington would be possible. Stanford will be looking for a coach next year, so maybe they come after Larry. Possibly Washington as well. Those jobs (along with Cal and Oregon) are the next tier (after UofA and UCLA) in terms of best coaching jobs in the conference.

SDSU could never match Utah's salary, and the cost of living is sky-high. The Aztecs only become an option if the ice is thinning quickly under Larry and he pre-emptively strikes to keep from being fired. As things stand, he would be taking about a 50 percent paycut to coach at Fisher's salary (COL increase estimate included). And Brian Dutcher, a longtime Fisher foot soldier, is officially the coach in waiting. Not happening.

UCLA and Arizona are so entrenched with Alford and Miller and the rest of the league offers nothing significantly better.

Sorry, but I cannot hide my disdain for this topic. Discussion of hotels and airfares to LA for next year's Rose Bowl would serve a better purpose.

[LA Ute]

I think Larry has a chance to build at Utah something like what Arizona has. Not exactly like it, but in the same category. My hope is that, barring some weird derailment along the way, he'll stick around and try to do that.

Just for grins, here is how the new basketball facility looks today:

1435

In the upper right here is Larry's top floor corner office from outside:

1436

I think that if Utah regularly has winning seasons this facility will be a significant boost to recruiting. The future looks promising.

[FountainOfUte]

Here are the only jobs that I think would pull him away...
1) UCLA: One of only a handful of true blue blood jobs, and probably the only one west of the Rockies.
2) Arizona/Gonzaga: These are probably the only two western programs clearly better than Utah *today*. I suspect Arizona will keep that status. Gonzaga is an interesting case. They have more momentum than us right now (my '99 me is beside himself at this fact), but I think Utah has a higher ceiling than Gonzaga, and Gonzaga has a deeper floor than Utah. "Buyer beware" to anyone taking the Gonzaga job after Few.
3) Cal or Stanford. If these guys come calling, I think he has to at least think about it.
4) Western NBA teams with good reputations for upper management: San Antonio, Utah, Portland, maybe Phoenix.
5) The Lakers. (I put them on their own line due to the upper management comment above. They've slipped in this category, but their legacy and cache more than make up for it).
6) University of Montana. This is my longshot pick. At some point you've made enough money and you can set your life on knocking off your bucket list. Yes, he's "been there and done that" with the Griz, but I still think deep down that this is his dream job. He strikes me as the kind of guy who would buck conventional wisdom and go back to his roots to build that program up as high as possible before he retires.

Otherwise, here's to a long and successful career for Krystko in SLC. And for that matter, while I want Connor to achieve whatever professional goals he has, I hope he's part of this program for at least a couple more years before he moves on. I think he probably deserves more credit than he gets for Krystkow's program's success.

[Utebiquitous]

Let's keep in mind that Utah should be/will be - maybe already is - the third-best job in the Pac-12 for men's basketball. The athletic department's goal, backed by a strong donor base, wants to be consistently in the top three in men's basketball. Goal accomplished in 2014-2015 and certainly attainable in 2015-2016. A more competitive league next season may mean a top 5 finish but top three is attainable and is becoming an expectation.

Along with that goal is a willingness to pay at a corresponding level.

My point, Washington, Stanford and Cal may come after Arizona and UCLA; but include Utah with Arizona and UCLA (or at least third when discussing the first tier in the Pac-12).

[Rocker Ute]

Another factor to consider is this job became a lot better after going through the wash with Giac and Boylen. What I mean is nobody wants to follow a legend as the constant scrutiny and comparisons are off the charts. Heck we still compare this season and Larry to the Majerus golden days. Suppose we got Kodiak instead of Giac and he did what he did this year immediately (let's just pull the players in the squad out of the mix for a minute). We'd probably be speculating on whether Majerus would have gotten the team past the sweet 16.

I think Larry has created a niche here, he has the facilities he needs and some momentum behind him. Personally I wouldn't want to leave for slightly greener pastures after the hard work has finally started to pay off. Plus I think basketball is much different than football as far as climbing the ladder goes. You can get to the national championship from the MWC. You can get to the championship if you are Butler or Gonzaga.

From there it just becomes pay, facilities and ease of recruiting. If you are comfortable where you are, and if you feel like you can get to the championship from where you are, the need to change is decreased.

[SoCalPat]

Another factor to consider is this job became a lot better after going through the wash with Giac and Boylen. What I mean is nobody wants to follow a legend as the constant scrutiny and comparisons are off the charts. Heck we still compare this season and Larry to the Majerus golden days. Suppose we got Kodiak instead of Giac and he did what he did this year immediately (let's just pull the players in the squad out of the mix for a minute). We'd probably be speculating on whether Majerus would have gotten the team past the sweet 16.

I think Larry has created a niche here, he has the facilities he needs and some momentum behind him. Personally I wouldn't want to leave for slightly greener pastures after the hard work has finally started to pay off. Plus I think basketball is much different than football as far as climbing the ladder goes. You can get to the national championship from the MWC. You can get to the championship if you are Butler or Gonzaga.

From there it just becomes pay, facilities and ease of recruiting. If you are comfortable where you are, and if you feel like you can get to the championship from where you are, the need to change is decreased.

Dead solid perfect.

[U-Ute]

The guy deserves his own thread. For starters:



Actually, this video is wrong. It is supposed to be pronounced SHISH-KO-VI-AK.

I just happened to catch this interview (http://espn700sports.com/espn700-interviews/larry-krystkowiak-runnin-utes-hc-3-23-15/) last week. Jump to the 13:10 mark to hear it from the man himself. He has a lot of fun with it.

[LA Ute]

Actually, this video is wrong. It is supposed to be pronounced SHISH-KO-VI-AK.

I just happened to catch this interview (http://espn700sports.com/espn700-interviews/larry-krystkowiak-runnin-utes-hc-3-23-15/) last week. Jump to the 13:10 mark to hear it from the man himself. He has a lot of fun with it.

I thought the same thing when I saw the video but was too lazy to get into the weeds of Polish name pronunciation. I can't make heads not tails out of Polish pronunciation. For example, I once had a colleague named Kadzielski. We called him ka-JEL-skee. The correct pronunciation is something like kaz-JIN-skee. :blink:

[Diehard Ute]

I thought the same thing when I saw the video but was too lazy to get into the weeds of Polish name pronunciation. I can't make heads not tails out of Polish pronunciation. For example, I once had a colleague named Kadzielski. We called him ka-JEL-skee. The correct pronunciation is something like kaz-JIN-skee. :blink:

We manage a football team full of Poly tongue twisters, a center who has a name with no R's in it that rhymes with Turtle and you can't manage polish? ;)

[LA Ute]

We manage a football team full of Poly tongue twisters, a center who has a name with no R's in it that rhymes with Turtle and you can't manage polish? ;)

LOL. Poly names can be written out phonetically so we have a chance to pronounce them somewhat correctly. Polish names have two pronunciations -- the Americanized one and the Polish one. The way the names are spelled gives you no clue as to what the Polish way is.

[Scorcho]

fortunately it does look like Utah is grooming Tommy Connor to be Utah's basketball successor. Something that Majerus was simply to insecure to ever let happen.

When Krystko leaves at least there appears to be a plan in place.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Chris Hill's legacy will be grounded in a strong, sustainable hoops program.

[LA Ute]

Chris Hill's legacy will be grounded in a strong, sustainable hoops program.

But, but...GiacoBoylen!

[SoCalPat]

But, but...GiacoBoylen!

It's not a chapter that can be ignored in Hill's bio. If anything, it provides a blueprint on how not to run a basketball program. Hill probably learned more from that time period than any other. It should've been a real eye-opener to him.

I think we're almost out of the hole created by previous coaches. While next year isn't make-or-break for Larry by any stretch, I think it will be a good indicator as to the overall health of the program. Results and interest combined, this year should not be the high-water mark under Larry. There's room for improvement, and part of that can be seen in the enthusiasm for a team that may or may not make the tournament, especially if Poeltl declares.

[UBlender]

It's not a chapter that can be ignored in Hill's bio. If anything, it provides a blueprint on how not to run a basketball program. Hill probably learned more from that time period than any other. It should've been a real eye-opener to him.

I think we're almost out of the hole created by previous coaches. While next year isn't make-or-break for Larry by any stretch, I think it will be a good indicator as to the overall health of the program. Results and interest combined, this year should not be the high-water mark under Larry. There's room for improvement, and part of that can be seen in the enthusiasm for a team that may or may not make the tournament, especially if Poeltl declares.

I agree. It is probably wise to remember that Bogut carried Giac to a Sweet 16, Boylen earned a 5 seed on the backs of a strong senior class. Larry will now need to prove that this is not a similar flash in the pan driven by having two future NBAers on the roster.

[LA Ute]

It's not a chapter that can be ignored in Hill's bio. If anything, it provides a blueprint on how not to run a basketball program. Hill probably learned more from that time period than any other. It should've been a real eye-opener to him.

Of course it should not be ignored, but by no means should it be the most prominent feature of his historic tenure at the U. All one has to do is look at where Athletics was at the U. when he started in 1988 and where it is now. No, he did not personally make all the good things happen, but it all happened under his stewardship. The guy's been phenomenally successful and Utes fans have been lucky to have him.

As far as what Hill learned about "running a basketball program" (which the AD does not do, the coach does; and BTW Hill knows an awful lot more about running an intercollegiate athletics department than anyone on this board knows or has ever known, by multiple factors) my relatively educated guess is that he learned to trust his own instincts when hiring coaches rather than to rely on the strong endorsements of highly-respected basketball coaches like Mark Few (Giac's ardent advocate) and Tom Izzo (Boylen's ardent advocate). I hope Chris writes a memoir. It would be interesting.

[LA Ute]

I agree. It is probably wise to remember that Bogut carried Giac to a Sweet 16, Boylen earned a 5 seed on the backs of a strong senior class. Larry will now need to prove that this is not a similar flash in the pan driven by having two future NBAers on the roster.

Another perspective: Delon and Jakob did not just fall into Larry's lap. Some of Larry's critics (http://hoyosrevenge.com/2014/04/21/utah-utes-basketball-sign-austrian-jakob-poeltl/) were pooh-poohing Poeltl's signing, saying we shouldn't expect much. No one knew who Delon was when Larry signed him. So let's give the guy credit for being able to find talent.

That said, I agree that LK has to keep building this thing. I'm optimistic based on what he has shown and the program's enhanced stature and new facilities.

[UBlender]

Another perspective: Delon and Jakob did not just fall into Larry's lap. Some of Larry's critics (http://hoyosrevenge.com/2014/04/21/utah-utes-basketball-sign-austrian-jakob-poeltl/) were pooh-poohing Poeltl's signing, saying we shouldn't expect much. No one knew who Delon was when Larry signed him. So let's give the guy credit for being able to find talent.

That said, I agree that LK has to keep building this thing. I'm optimistic based on what he has shown and the program's enhanced stature and new facilities.

I agree with everything you say. Larry has done well at building his roster with few missteps along the way (first year excluded). I was not arguing against Larry, just playing devil's advocate. If Utah basketball is truly "back" then we must see some sustainability beginning next year.

[mUUser]

Nobody here knows crap about what Shystko would or would not do with any particular job opening.

But, its fun to read anyway. Thanks.

[LA Ute]

Nobody here knows crap about what Shystko would or would not do with any particular job opening.

But, its fun to read anyway. Thanks.

True. I don't think he knows himself. Neither would most of us, usually, in our own situations.

[LA Ute]

This is a side view of the basketball center, viewed from the Huntsman Center.
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/04/04/cbb74a0de33b85e43b75ca07376eb7d7.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Diehard Ute]

New contract announced for Larry. Runs through 2022/23 season, $2.4 Million per year per a Bill Riley tweet

[Diehard Ute]

And the press release

http://www.utahutes.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/040815aaa.html

[LA Ute]

"Off the court, Utah had four players named to the Pac-12 All-Academic teams this year, the most of any school in the conference. Jeremy Olsen (http://www.utahutes.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/jeremy_olsen_450217.html) and Brandon Taylor (http://www.utahutes.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/brandon_taylor_799211.html) were first-team selections, giving the Utes nine honorees over the last two years--also tops in the league."

Not bad.

[Old Standing ute]

New contract announced for Larry. Runs through 2022/23 season, $2.4 Million per year per a Bill Riley tweet

Hope his staff all get a bump too.

[jrj84105]

Hope his staff all get a bump too.

I assume that is why TC is not head coach at USU right now.

On a completely irrelevant note, I had a weird dream that LK was named AD as CH's replacement, and LK built a huge combined football/basketball stadium/arena that didn't suck like the one we played Duke in.

[SoCalPat]

I assume that is why TC is not head coach at USU right now.

On a completely irrelevant note, I had a weird dream that LK was named AD as CH's replacement, and LK built a huge combined football/basketball stadium/arena that didn't suck like the one we played Duke in.

If Tommy wanted to be a HC at USU badly enough, he would've taken whatever offer they gave him. It has nothing to do with any potential raise at Utah. Our lead assistant will never be paid as much as a HC in a league like the MWC.

[Old Standing ute]

1444

Toured new BB facility last week
WOW.
Attached (I hope) is a picture out Larry's window. He is on top SW corner. Balcony runs all along that side--accessible by each coaches office. then LK has his own private balcony on south side. (Women's coach has same thing down 1 floor).
Roof (per LK's request) has pavers & planters around the edges. View in each direction except north.
Men's gym on entrance level (entrance from the east will be Hall of fame & will be really nice) is huge. Has some natural lighting. has a balcony to watch practice.
weight rooms, tubs, locker room etc will all be state of the art.

it is to be done this fall. If I was Jakob I would wait a year just to hang out in this place.

[Old Standing ute]

1445

It worked--here is a portion of men's practice gym--hard to gauge how big it is--look at the equipment

[Old Standing ute]

1446

last one--view on the roof looking south/east

[U-Ute]

Awesome stuff! Thanks for posting!

[SoCalPat]

With the news that Jayce Johnson is on his way out, I’m officially done. All that’s left is for us to not make the NCAAs next year, and this failed experiment will be over with.

[concerned]

With the news that Jayce Johnson is on his way out, I’m officially done. All that’s left is for us to not make the NCAAs next year, and this failed experiment will be over with.

If true, you are right.

[sancho]

There's no way for us to verify, right? We just have to wait?

[NorthwestUteFan]

We are not making the tournament next year, not without Headband Jayce. This is really devastating.

I have almost zero faith in Larry Krystkowiak any more.

Sent from my LG-LS777 using Tapatalk

[UTEopia]

With the news that Jayce Johnson is on his way out, I’m officially done. All that’s left is for us to not make the NCAAs next year, and this failed experiment will be over with.

I join you in being officially done.

[UtahsMrSports]

Cool. Who here is kicking in for the buyout.

[sancho]

Cool. Who here is kicking in for the buyout.

The buyout means nothing. If it's his time to go, we can figure it out.

I hate that Jayce is (maybe) leaving. Why would he go?

1) He's graduating and just wants a new setting?
2) He has a girlfriend in CA?
3) He blames Larry for his own shortcomings as a player?
4) He doesn't have close friends on the team?
5) He knows Thione will take all his playing time next year?
6) He bought into the media silliness that tells him he's a victim and is owed something more.

My guess is #1, but it doesn't matter. We can fire Larry, and we will be frustrated as the next coach also has players transfer out. This new transfer/free agency era of college sports stinks. It's what the media demanded for years, and they didn't care if it made the game worse. And they just keep demanding that the sports become more and more like professional leagues.

[UtahsMrSports]

The buyout means nothing. If it's his time to go, we can figure it out.

I hate that Jayce is (maybe) leaving. Why would he go?

1) He's graduating and just wants a new setting?
2) He has a girlfriend in CA?
3) He blames Larry for his own shortcomings as a player?
4) He doesn't have close friends on the team?
5) He knows Thione will take all his playing time next year?
6) He bought into the media silliness that tells him he's a victim and is owed something more.

My guess is #1, but it doesn't matter. We can fire Larry, and we will be frustrated as the next coach also has players transfer out. This new transfer/free agency era of college sports stinks. It's what the media demanded for years, and they didn't care if it made the game worse. And they just keep demanding that the sports become more and more like professional leagues.

Not sure I agree with your first paragraph, but agreed on the final.

[SeattleUte]

The buyout means nothing. If it's his time to go, we can figure it out.

I hate that Jayce is (maybe) leaving. Why would he go?

1) He's graduating and just wants a new setting?
2) He has a girlfriend in CA?
3) He blames Larry for his own shortcomings as a player?
4) He doesn't have close friends on the team?
5) He knows Thione will take all his playing time next year?
6) He bought into the media silliness that tells him he's a victim and is owed something more.

My guess is #1, but it doesn't matter. We can fire Larry, and we will be frustrated as the next coach also has players transfer out. This new transfer/free agency era of college sports stinks. It's what the media demanded for years, and they didn't care if it made the game worse. And they just keep demanding that the sports become more and more like professional leagues.

I don’t care what about any transfer/free agency era; I want guys with character like I saw in this Final Four. I’ve seen guys like that in Utah’s past programs. Guys like that don’t transfer, whatever the fashion. If Johnson had that kind of character, and he saw that if he stayed he could be a crucial piece of something big and transcendent, he’d stay. Transfers are happening (1) among guys that don’t expect to be very important in the current program, and (2) among foundering programs. Our objective should be to get out of that pitiful circle, which, granted, comprises more than half of DI schools. We should aspire to more.

[Mormon Red Death]

The buyout means nothing. If it's his time to go, we can figure it out.

I hate that Jayce is (maybe) leaving. Why would he go?

1) He's graduating and just wants a new setting?
2) He has a girlfriend in CA?
3) He blames Larry for his own shortcomings as a player?
4) He doesn't have close friends on the team?
5) He knows Thione will take all his playing time next year?
6) He bought into the media silliness that tells him he's a victim and is owed something more.

My guess is #1, but it doesn't matter. We can fire Larry, and we will be frustrated as the next coach also has players transfer out. This new transfer/free agency era of college sports stinks. It's what the media demanded for years, and they didn't care if it made the game worse. And they just keep demanding that the sports become more and more like professional leagues.

https://twitter.com/JacobCHatch/status/1115420622140493825?s=19

[sancho]

Not sure I agree with your first paragraph, but agreed on the final.

A program that truly cares finds a way to fire a dead duck coach. I know we are a football school now, but I think we still care enough about basketball to not let a buyout get in our way. I'm not saying Larry has to go; I'm saying that if he does need to go, we will be able to make it happen.

[UtahsMrSports]

https://twitter.com/JacobCHatch/status/1115420622140493825?s=19

Alex Markham, who as Pat correctly pointed out on twitter is clearly tweeting out, probably almost verbatim, what the staff wants him to say, said that even though he is in the transfer portal, Jayce may end up coming back.

[UtahsMrSports]

Just so everybody can hate me more than you already do, here is my attempt at seeing the positive here.

-Roster was imbalanced toward the bigs. With two roster spots, perhaps the staff looks to bring in a juco and a grad transfer guard. That would make the roster more "perfectly balanced, as all things should be."
-Thioune, MVK, and Carlsen all get more of an opportunity to play and show what they can do as the team builds for success down the road (I can feel the eyeroll from here and i get it, im just trying to see any positives here)

Yeah...........so theres that.

[Irving Washington]

The buyout means nothing. If it's his time to go, we can figure it out.

I hate that Jayce is (maybe) leaving. Why would he go?

1) He's graduating and just wants a new setting?
2) He has a girlfriend in CA?
3) He blames Larry for his own shortcomings as a player?
4) He doesn't have close friends on the team?
5) He knows Thione will take all his playing time next year?
6) He bought into the media silliness that tells him he's a victim and is owed something more.

My guess is #1, but it doesn't matter. We can fire Larry, and we will be frustrated as the next coach also has players transfer out. This new transfer/free agency era of college sports stinks. It's what the media demanded for years, and they didn't care if it made the game worse. And they just keep demanding that the sports become more and more like professional leagues.
A possible #7--Larry was hard on Jaycee to bring out the best in him, and Jaycee didn't like it. Maybe one of Larry's problems is that he doesn't adjust his style to different personalities. I think this has been suggested before. Matures was able to get away with it because the team results were so good, and he had assistants who propped a kid up.
Who knows. Players have changed and Larry hasn't. His position certainly isn't as stable with a new athletic director.
Utah's tradition is certainly gone. Look at the coaches since Pimm left. All disappointments, except for the Majerus golden era. And some questioned Majerus--someone who had only two years of college head coaching experience.
Looking at an experience of four out of five bad hires isn't promising. And we kind of lucked out on the fifth, spectacularly.

[SeattleUte]

Moreover, if this is an epidemic, we don’t experience the benefit, unlike the football team. We have a net talent drain over the years. We should want a coach who uses the transfer market to improve, and is not depleted by it. Increased fluidity is as much opportunity as challenge. But only the fittest coaches survive.

[sancho]

A possible #7--Larry was hard on Jaycee to bring out the best in him, and Jaycee didn't like it. Maybe one of Larry's problems is that he doesn't adjust his style to different personalities. I think this has been suggested before. Matures was able to get away with it because the team results were so good, and he had assistants who propped a kid up.
Who knows. Players have changed and Larry hasn't.

Yeah, maybe. Larry certainly doesn't berate his players during games like many other coaches we see, but maybe he's too tough in practice or something.

[Scorcho]

Moreover, if this is an epidemic, we don’t experience the benefit, unlike the football team. We have a net talent drain over the years. We should want a coach who uses the transfer market to improve, and is not depleted by it. Increased fluidity is as much opportunity as challenge. But only the fittest coaches survive.

not even remotely true - here are some of Utah's transfers IN - Justin Bibbins, Delon Wright, Gabe Bealer, Chris Reyes, Sedrick Barefield, David Collette, Tyler Rawson, Dallin Bachynski

[UtahsMrSports]

Moreover, if this is an epidemic, we don’t experience the benefit, unlike the football team. We have a net talent drain over the years. We should want a coach who uses the transfer market to improve, and is not depleted by it. Increased fluidity is as much opportunity as challenge. But only the fittest coaches survive.

I gotta hand it to you. It takes something special to be this wrong. Its absolutely marvelous.

[Old Standing ute]

Yeah, maybe. Larry certainly doesn't berate his players during games like many other coaches we see, but maybe he's too tough in practice or something.

I have been to a number of practices, Larry is not tough on the players in practice. Tommy Connor has a big role at practices.
Who knows why the Headband wants to leave, but it is not because he has been berated by the coaches.

I am probably the only one who thinks players should have more freedom in leaving, everyone else can change colleges, jobs, etc. when things change or they are unhappy—why not college athletes? I think if they put in 2 years then they can leave with no penalty, no sitting out.
Coaches can leave with no penalty.
Then a person like Chris Hart in FB or Poopola (sp?) in BB who just is not good enough can move on & have a chance to play right away at a different level.

As to Jayce maybe he got sick of all of us groaning when he went to the free throw line. He is kind of a goof ball, but is smart & really works at BB. Maybe he realized the end is near—-no BB future for him & wants to move to where he will live after he finishes next year.

If/when he leaves I wish him well & good luck.

[SoCalPat]

not even remotely true - here are some of Utah's transfers IN - Justin Bibbins, Delon Wright, Gabe Bealer, Chris Reyes, Sedrick Barefield, David Collette, Tyler Rawson, Dallin Bachynski

I don’t count the JUCO kids when talking about transfers of this nature. That leaves just Bibbins, Barefield, Collette and Bachinsky — and probably bolsters your argument at the same time.

[Rocker Ute]

I have been to a number of practices, Larry is not tough on the players in practice. Tommy Connor has a big role at practices.
Who knows why the Headband wants to leave, but it is not because he has been berated by the coaches.

I am probably the only one who thinks players should have more freedom in leaving, everyone else can change colleges, jobs, etc. when things change or they are unhappy—why not college athletes? I think if they put in 2 years then they can leave with no penalty, no sitting out.
Coaches can leave with no penalty.
Then a person like Chris Hart in FB or Poopola (sp?) in BB who just is not good enough can move on & have a chance to play right away at a different level.

As to Jayce maybe he got sick of all of us groaning when he went to the free throw line. He is kind of a goof ball, but is smart & really works at BB. Maybe he realized the end is near—-no BB future for him & wants to move to where he will live after he finishes next year.

If/when he leaves I wish him well & good luck.

I think the problem of letting a guy leave after 2 years without penalty is that a lot of these guys know each other and that would start to create dream team building at the detriment of the rest of the schools. Go out, prove yourself good, other teams start drooling over you and then it is a "Hey come play with me and we'll get an NCAA championship together."

The transfer rules that limit movement don't bother me. Universities spend significant amount of money and time recruiting kids and then supporting them while they are here, and then to have essentially a 24/7/365 recruiting requirement, for even your own players, would be a nightmare. This transfer portal thing is stupid too, and what a statement you make to your coaches and team when you put yourself in there and then DON'T transfer?

Regardless of it all, what we DO know for sure is that Jayce is not happy to stick out his last year at the U, despite the fact that he'll likely get limited to no interest from a program of similar caliber. That's a big matzo ball sitting out there.

[sancho]

I think the problem of letting a guy leave after 2 years without penalty is that a lot of these guys know each other and that would start to create dream team building at the detriment of the rest of the schools. Go out, prove yourself good, other teams start drooling over you and then it is a "Hey come play with me and we'll get an NCAA championship together."

The transfer rules that limit movement don't bother me. Universities spend significant amount of money and time recruiting kids and then supporting them while they are here, and then to have essentially a 24/7/365 recruiting requirement, for even your own players, would be a nightmare. This transfer portal thing is stupid too, and what a statement you make to your coaches and team when you put yourself in there and then DON'T transfer?

Regardless of it all, what we DO know for sure is that Jayce is not happy to stick out his last year at the U, despite the fact that he'll likely get limited to no interest from a program of similar caliber. That's a big matzo ball sitting out there.

The number 1 rule always needs to be "don't kill the golden goose." If free agency is bad for college sports, then we should not allow it. College football and basketball are glorious things that have been great for 100 years. Why mess with the recipe?

[Old Standing ute]

Universities make millions off of athletes, much more than they spend on them. Plus coaches can flush out turds without any penalty to the coach, (maybe too many & they lose their jobs), but the turd has to sit out for a year.

Change will never happen as there is too much money being made in the current system, & not any money to be made off a lawsuit for non-star players, but I got to know Chris Hart & it bugged me that he had no options but to work his butt off & try different positions, when his real problem he was a football tweener.

Interesting to see where Jayce goes—-I agree he will probably have to take a step down, but maybe he wants to go somewhere where he will be the star.

[sancho]

I don’t count the JUCO kids when talking about transfers of this nature. That leaves just Bibbins, Barefield, Collette and Bachinsky — and probably bolsters your argument at the same time.

I think you have to count the JUCO kids in this equation because it was the transfers out that made room for the JUCO kids.

[sancho]

Universities make millions off of athletes, much more than they spend on them. Plus coaches can flush out turds without any penalty to the coach, (maybe too many & they lose their jobs), but the turd has to sit out for a year.

Change will never happen as there is too much money being made in the current system, & not any money to be made off a lawsuit for non-star players, but I got to know Chris Hart & it bugged me that he had no options but to work his butt off & try different positions, when his real problem he was a football tweener.

Interesting to see where Jayce goes—-I agree he will probably have to take a step down, but maybe he wants to go somewhere where he will be the star.

There is no respectable level in which Jayce is a star. He is a good defender and a very good rebounder. He could be a great rebounder in a lesser league, I suppose, but he won't score a lot at any level.

I don't see what's wrong with Hart staying as a tweener, getting a free education, getting to play a sport he loves. I think a free transfer should be allowed to a lower division. Let him go to Weber if playing time is the issue.

[Old Standing ute]

Hart did not get to play—-special teams is not really playing.

So he got to practice the sport he loves. I agree he should have been allowed to go to a lower division like Weber without a penalty.

Same with Pop in BB.

[DrumNFeather]

Jayce is an interesting use case for Larry's tenure at Utah. On the one hand, he's a kid who came in with a lot of promise and has had flashes of being a really good player. He's certainly improved in his 4 years at Utah...I don't think anyone can deny that. However, he also has been a guy that the fans have really piled on at times. Had he transferred after last season, would it have been celebrated? I suspect for some fans it would've been. Now those same fans that have been on his ass for several years are citing him as a reason to fire Larry. Hard to reconcile that one.

As for firing Larry. Okay, fine, so we fire Larry and we pay all 12.75 million of his buyout. If you're going to do that, you'd better be damn sure that you've got a guy lined up that can come in. The last several coaching searches have been flat out embarrassing for the school...do we really need to see Randy Bennett turn us down again? I've heard folks say that 3.5 million goes a long ways. Sure, but there's no chance that if the school is paying Larry that, that they are going to get right back in the business of paying top 10-15 money for their basketball coach.

So that leaves us with the question of who are you going to get? If you wanted a Gregg Marshall, you're looking at giving him the same money as Larry (which he already makes) or slightly more. You have some local folks (Pope, Craig Smith, Alex Jensen)...does that generate excitement? I have no idea. I think Alex would certainly appeal to the older sentimental crowd.

Here's my guy - Porter Moser, head coach of Loyola-Chicago. A Majerus guy, has head coaching experience, and currently (I believe) only making 500k. You could probably give him 2 million a year and he would come to Utah in a heartbeat.

[Old Standing ute]

UCLA wouldn’t pay $8M for Dixon’s buyout to get him as their coach.

Utah is not paying Larry $12M+ to leave. And not $6M after next year, not with the push on donors to fund the FB expansion.

[sancho]

Here's my guy - Porter Moser, head coach of Loyola-Chicago. A Majerus guy, has head coaching experience, and currently (I believe) only making 500k. You could probably give him 2 million a year and he would come to Utah in a heartbeat.

You could probably give him 400,000 and he would come in a heartbeat. Loyola had its moment, but that ain't happening again, and Moser won't have a long window to cash in.

I have no idea who Utah should have as our basketball coach. None of the names you mentioned are a sure thing except Gregg Marshall, and I would be beyond shocked if we could land a fish that big.

On Jayce: Utah Twitter is the worst. Everything I saw about him there for 2 years was about how much of a failure he is. There's no way our vocal Tweeters are good for Utah athletics. I don't know if this is a universal problem all schools have or if we are particularly bad.

[sancho]

UCLA wouldn’t pay $8M for Dixon’s buyout to get him as their coach.

Utah is not paying Larry $12M+ to leave. And not $6M after next year, not with the push on donors to fund the FB expansion.

If UCLA people had been excited about Dixon, the buyout would have happened. If Utah people get excited about firing Larry, the $12 million will happen.

[LA Ute]

After our last Sweet 16 (Poeltl's second year) we thought Utah basketball was back, and they Larry was leading the renaissance. Why have the wheels come off (or at least become wobbly)?

[Mormon Red Death]

After our last Sweet 16 (Poeltl's second year) we thought Utah basketball was back, and they Larry was leading the renaissance. Why have the wheels come off (or at least become wobbly)?

Well went to the tournament the next year and then Larry got cancer. Perhaps that affected him more than we think.

[Old Standing ute]

If UCLA people had been excited about Dixon, the buyout would have happened. If Utah people get excited about firing Larry, the $12 million will happen.

Then the excitement is not there & I don’t think there are many BB people who follow the Utes who will ever hit the excitement level.

But I hope you are right & I am wrong.

[SeattleUte]

UCLA wouldn’t pay $8M for Dixon’s buyout to get him as their coach.

Utah is not paying Larry $12M+ to leave. And not $6M after next year, not with the push on donors to fund the FB expansion.

You haven’t read the contract. So you’re just being a windbag.

[sancho]

Then the excitement is not there & I don’t think there are many BB people who follow the Utes who will ever hit the excitement level.

But I hope you are right & I am wrong.

Well, we've been a football school now for a long time.

Retaining an underperforming coach would send a clear message that basketball is no longer a priority at Utah. I don't think Larry is at that level though. If we fired him, the national media would think we're nuts. He's finished top 4 in the conference for how many years in a row? Our recruiting numbers are better than they've ever been. People generally believe he gets more out of less than anyone else in the Pac-12. Everything looks up except the lack of tournament appearances and this annoying transfer situation. But the lack of tournament appearances is a huge deal.

I'm really bummed about Jayce, but I'm still where I was before. Just see what the team looks like this year. See if these good recruiting numbers are going to pay off. Unless we can get Gregg Marshall, then I'd fire Larry yesterday.

[SeattleUte]

not even remotely true - here are some of Utah's transfers IN - Justin Bibbins, Delon Wright, Gabe Bealer, Chris Reyes, Sedrick Barefield, David Collette, Tyler Rawson, Dallin Bachynski

Delon Wright was a JUCO. The JUCOs don’t count. And I’d rather have a program built on four year guys unless they go to the NBA, like the successful ones.

If faux Coach K wins, if we go to the NCAA playoffs and make a mark, win a conference title, beat ranked teams, gets ranked for a stretch, etc, I’m happy to give him the credit. On the other hand, some here, including Scorcho, Mr. Sports, and Old Standing, will defend these coaches come what may, even if it means trashing the insitution and its history. What they are doing is defending their buddies, or coaches who have given them access to the institution. And they have no credibility.

Let’s be clear about one thing. The only reason Utah hired faux K is to win, go to NCAA playoffs, etc. That’s why faux K is one of the highest paid coaches in the country. There are a lot of cheaper hires if we want to develop fine young men, and it’s not even clear to me that faux K is doing that.

So excuses about why he’s failing or promises about how things might improve that aren’t supported by the scientific method don’t cut ice with me. He’s been hired to get us into the NCAA tourney, get us ranked, etc. and if it’s happening, that’s all I need to see.

[SoCalPat]

I think you have to count the JUCO kids in this equation because it was the transfers out that made room for the JUCO kids.

All of the JUCOs came in traditional signing periods, and none were direct replacements for grad transfers. To label Delon's arrival and background in the same category as Justin Bibbins', for example, is absurd.

[sancho]

And they have no credibility.


Dude, none of us has any credibility. If we did, we'd be someplace else. They're just posting thoughts like you are, but they have the dignity to avoid insults.

[Rocker Ute]

Delon Wright was a JUCO. The JUCOs don’t count. And I’d rather have a program built on four year guys unless they go to the NBA, like the successful ones.

If faux Coach K wins, if we go to the NCAA playoffs and make a mark, win a conference title, beat ranked teams, gets ranked for a stretch, etc, I’m happy to give him the credit. On the other hand, some here, including Scorcho, Mr. Sports, and Old Standing, will defend these coaches come what may, even if it means trashing the insitution and its history. What they are doing is defending their buddies, or coaches who have given them access to the institution. And they have no credibility.

Let’s be clear about one thing. The only reason Utah hired faux K is to win, go to NCAA playoffs, etc. That’s why faux K is one of the highest paid coaches in the country. There are a lot of cheaper hires if we want to develop fine young men, and it’s not even clear to me that faux K is doing that.

So excuses about why he’s failing or promises about how things might improve that aren’t supported by the scientific method don’t cut ice with me. He’s been hired to get us into the NCAA tourney, get us ranked, etc. and if it’s happening, that’s all I need to see.

I agree with your sentiment and coaches are hired to win games and go to tournaments. But I find it laughable that anyone who isn't lock-step with you on what to do about Krystkowiak is somehow a patsy for the coach who is being manipulated by access.

I have zero access to the program and my thinking with Krystkowiak in the past is that the shortest route to winning is likely through him so we should give him some room to do his thing. It now appears that isn't the case, but that would explain my loyalty of sorts to him. But unless you get a blue-chip hire or a hidden gem of a coach (and I'm not saying we won't, but UCLA has proven it is harder than it appears and they have all the advantages) there WILL be more pain ahead.

I'll also add that i have no idea if Harlan is better at hiring a coach than Hill or worse, we just don't know, and so there is a factor involved in that too. So another factor of my 'loyalty' to Krystkowiak is influenced by that too.

Right now, with all we can see, like I said, I think the writing is on the wall for K. But these attacks on people who don't agree with you is ridiculous.

[UTEopia]

If the program of the past 4 years is the best we can expect from LK, there really is no reason, other than money, not to let him go. I now live in San Diego most of the winter and did not buy season tickets this past year. I don't anticipate buying this year. I was only in SLC for 1 home game. It was not well attended. My guess is that just as with Mac, the butts in the seats will eventually determine LK's fate.

I hated to see Mac go but saw that it was clearly time to move on to move forward. I don't have the same good feelings about LK (I don't hate the guy - he seems like a good guy), but it is clear to me that it is time to move on to move forward. I don't know who we get. I like the idea of Alex Jensen. He certainly has the basketball IQ and hopefully could put together a staff that can recruit to Utah. Who knows, maybe he can get Donnie Daniels and Juddy back to Utah. :D

As for the transfer portal and its impact on college football and basketball, at some point there is a line where college athletics as we know them turns into the equivalent of the NBA G League and the most recent football league that just failed. Where that line is, I don't know. It is probably different for each of us. It has gotten there for me with college basketball nationally with the scandals and with the Utes with the lack of a cohesive program that I can get behind. I did not watch 1 NCAA tournament game for the first time ever. I think those pushing for more money, more freedom of movement, etc for college athletes, while good intentioned, may just end up eliminating college sports as we know them and with that the educational opportunities that come with them. I would hate to see that happen to accommodate the desires of the 1% who see the college athletic experience as just a necessary step to the pros.

[UTEopia]

After our last Sweet 16 (Poeltl's second year) we thought Utah basketball was back, and they Larry was leading the renaissance. Why have the wheels come off (or at least become wobbly)?

Because the program has stagnated into one where it is in rebuilding mode every year. There is no continuity with players. For fans, we see a program that has stagnated and there is no reason to believe it will change with this staff. I had a coach tell me once after yelling at me pretty good. Don't worry about me yelling at you. Worry when I don't, because that will tell you that I don't think you can improve and I have given up on you.

I think most of the voices that once supported Utah basketball have stopped yelling. They have certainly stopped going to games.

[Two Utes]

I don’t care what about any transfer/free agency era; I want guys with character like I saw in this Final Four. I’ve seen guys like that in Utah’s past programs. Guys like that don’t transfer, whatever the fashion. If Johnson had that kind of character, and he saw that if he stayed he could be a crucial piece of something big and transcendent, he’d stay. Transfers are happening (1) among guys that don’t expect to be very important in the current program, and (2) among foundering programs. Our objective should be to get out of that pitiful circle, which, granted, comprises more than half of DI schools. We should aspire to more.

Uhh yeah, Matt Mooney transferred from Air Force to South Dakota to Texas Tech. Owens started at Tenn, went to St Johns and ended up at Texas Tech. Braxton Key started at Bama and went to Virginia. So much for that line of thinking.

[Two Utes]

Moreover, if this is an epidemic, we don’t experience the benefit, unlike the football team. We have a net talent drain over the years. We should want a coach who uses the transfer market to improve, and is not depleted by it. Increased fluidity is as much opportunity as challenge. But only the fittest coaches survive.


Uhh, yeah, Bibbins was our best players last year. he had a phenomenal year.

[DrumNFeather]

FWIW, Riley just said on his show that he has been unable to confirm the report/rumor.

[SeattleUte]

I agree with your sentiment and coaches are hired to win games and go to tournaments. But I find it laughable that anyone who isn't lock-step with you on what to do about Krystkowiak is somehow a patsy for the coach who is being manipulated by access.

I have zero access to the program and my thinking with Krystkowiak in the past is that the shortest route to winning is likely through him so we should give him some room to do his thing. It now appears that isn't the case, but that would explain my loyalty of sorts to him. But unless you get a blue-chip hire or a hidden gem of a coach (and I'm not saying we won't, but UCLA has proven it is harder than it appears and they have all the advantages) there WILL be more pain ahead.

I'll also add that i have no idea if Harlan is better at hiring a coach than Hill or worse, we just don't know, and so there is a factor involved in that too. So another factor of my 'loyalty' to Krystkowiak is influenced by that too.

Right now, with all we can see, like I said, I think the writing is on the wall for K. But these attacks on people who don't agree with you is ridiculous.

See you’re not a pasty for the coach. You’re capable of criticizing him. The ones I listed are 100% cheerleaders all the time. Fine. However, the reason I call it out is when their excuses turn to trashing the University of Utah, like the Boylen shills’ refrain that he couldn’t win because the practice facility was inadequate. Here it’s now become that Utah doesn’t really have a distinguished tradition; Majerus was a fluke, and we should be satisfied with this program. Or, we’re stuck with him because of his buyout, as a last resort.

[UtahsMrSports]

Delon Wright was a JUCO. The JUCOs don’t count. And I’d rather have a program built on four year guys unless they go to the NBA, like the successful ones.

If faux Coach K wins, if we go to the NCAA playoffs and make a mark, win a conference title, beat ranked teams, gets ranked for a stretch, etc, I’m happy to give him the credit. On the other hand, some here, including Scorcho, Mr. Sports, and Old Standing, will defend these coaches come what may, even if it means trashing the insitution and its history. What they are doing is defending their buddies, or coaches who have given them access to the institution. And they have no credibility.

Let’s be clear about one thing. The only reason Utah hired faux K is to win, go to NCAA playoffs, etc. That’s why faux K is one of the highest paid coaches in the country. There are a lot of cheaper hires if we want to develop fine young men, and it’s not even clear to me that faux K is doing that.

So excuses about why he’s failing or promises about how things might improve that aren’t supported by the scientific method don’t cut ice with me. He’s been hired to get us into the NCAA tourney, get us ranked, etc. and if it’s happening, that’s all I need to see.

Your trolling is much like your critiques. Yawn.....

[UtahsMrSports]

See you’re not a pasty for the coach. You’re capable of criticizing him. The ones I listed are 100% cheerleaders all the time. Fine. However, the reason I call it out is when their excuses turn to trashing the University of Utah, like the Boylen shills’ refrain that he couldn’t win because the practice facility was inadequate. Here it’s now become that Utah doesn’t really have a distinguished tradition; Majerus was a fluke, and we should be satisfied with this program. Or, we’re stuck with him because of his buyout, as a last resort.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_O%27Clock_Charlie

[Applejack]

All this posting in this thread about what we all know to be true: Larry has a one year window to get us NCAA tournament-bound.

Without Jayce, that will be a tough haul.

[Old Standing ute]

You haven’t read the contract. So you’re just being a windbag.

The D. News citing a USA Today reported in Dec of 2018 that the buyout is actually $15,750,000 so the Windbag was wrong.

My apologies.

[chrisrenrut]

On Jayce: Utah Twitter is the worst. Everything I saw about him there for 2 years was about how much of a failure he is. There's no way our vocal Tweeters are good for Utah athletics. I don't know if this is a universal problem all schools have or if we are particularly bad.

Twitter is the cesspool of the internet. I guarantee other teams have worse.

[mUUser]

The D. News citing a USA Today reported in Dec of 2018 that the buyout is actually $15,750,000......


Updated as of April 1st, $12,750,000

[SoCalPat]

The D. News citing a USA Today reported in Dec of 2018 that the buyout is actually $15,750,000 so the Windbag was wrong.

My apologies.

The buyout is about $3.15M for every year Larry has on his contract. On Dec. 1, his salary becomes guaranteed for the entire year -- even if he's caught in a sorority with 10 dead hookers on Dec. 2. He's got four years left on his deal, so I suspect to buy him out after next year will be about $9M.

It's not pocket change for a department that's a year or two away from breaking $100M in revenue, but it's something that can be done. Chris Hill stuck it to the program by saddling us with Larry's contract; to his credit, he managed the department's finances pretty good elsewhere to where we can financially stomach a move like this.

[Rocker Ute]

The buyout is about $3.15M for every year Larry has on his contract. On Dec. 1, his salary becomes guaranteed for the entire year -- even if he's caught in a sorority with 10 dead hookers on Dec. 2. He's got four years left on his deal, so I suspect to buy him out after next year will be about $9M.

It's not pocket change for a department that's a year or two away from breaking $100M in revenue, but it's something that can be done. Chris Hill stuck it to the program by saddling us with Larry's contract; to his credit, he managed the department's finances pretty good elsewhere to where we can financially stomach a move like this.

While this appears to be a significant gaffe, it is pretty hard to be critical of Chris Hill's financial management of the department. We could be WAYYYYYYYY worse off, and if we really need to we could absorb this. I would guess that the payout like that is also probably not a single payout, but done over time as well, making it even more manageable.

[Scorcho]

See you’re not a pasty for the coach. You’re capable of criticizing him. The ones I listed are 100% cheerleaders all the time. Fine. However, the reason I call it out is when their excuses turn to trashing the University of Utah, like the Boylen shills’ refrain that he couldn’t win because the practice facility was inadequate. Here it’s now become that Utah doesn’t really have a distinguished tradition; Majerus was a fluke, and we should be satisfied with this program. Or, we’re stuck with him because of his buyout, as a last resort.

Majerus was a fluke. Majerus made the tournament 11 times in 15 years (73%)

The other Utah coaches made the tournament 18 times in 60 years (30%), this perceived distinguished Utah basketball tradition looks pretty thin outside of a couple of good years by Gardner and Pimm (incidentally Gardner made the NCAA tourney on average once every 4 years, which is the exactly same rate as Larry K).

If SeattleUte were a BYU fan, he'd be reveling in 1984 as if it were last week.

[sancho]

As for the transfer portal and its impact on college football and basketball, at some point there is a line where college athletics as we know them turns into the equivalent of the NBA G League and the most recent football league that just failed. Where that line is, I don't know. It is probably different for each of us. It has gotten there for me with college basketball nationally with the scandals and with the Utes with the lack of a cohesive program that I can get behind. I did not watch 1 NCAA tournament game for the first time ever. I think those pushing for more money, more freedom of movement, etc for college athletes, while good intentioned, may just end up eliminating college sports as we know them and with that the educational opportunities that come with them. I would hate to see that happen to accommodate the desires of the 1% who see the college athletic experience as just a necessary step to the pros.

This is my fear as well, but this point of view is routinely mocked by college sports media members.

[SeattleUte]

Majerus was a fluke. Majerus made the tournament 11 times in 15 years (73%)

The other Utah coaches made the tournament 18 times in 60 years (30%), this perceived distinguished Utah basketball tradition looks pretty thin outside of a couple of good years by Gardner and Pimm (incidentally Gardner made the NCAA tourney on average once every 4 years, which is the exactly same rate as Larry K).

If SeattleUte were a BYU fan, he'd be reveling in 1984 as if it were last week.

No doubt Majerus was the greatest of the Ute coaches. But 73% compared to 30% doesn’t make him a fluke. This is especially true when you consider quality of those NCAA appearances. (Our most embarrassing NCAA appearance was Mark Few making faux K look like a knuckle dragger in 2016).

In the years the prior to Majerus Utah’s coaches had a national championship, three Final Fours, four elite 8s, and ten Sweet 16s in what was actually a span of 47 not 60 years. Jerry Pimm had four Sweet 16s in eight years, when the tournament was 32-48 teams and post Jim Crow.

So you compare Majerus’s achievement in 1998–beating no. 1 ranked North Carolina (with Anton Jamieson and Vince Carter) and crushing defending nationa champion Arizona (with everyone back) to BYU’s 1984 faux national championship after feasting on the WAC and beating an unbanked Michigan team?

Like I said, you’re not a Ute fan. You’re a Larry Krystkowiak coaching staff groupie.

[SeattleUte]

To give the Utah basketball tradition deniers here (aka coaching staff groupies) some perspective, before this season Auburn had zero Final Fours, one elite 8, and four Sweet 16s; Texas Tech had zero Final Fours, one Elite 8 (in 2018 under “fluke” Chris Beard), and six Sweet 16s (but three of them under “flukes” Bobby Knight and Chris Beard); Virginia had two Final Fours (1981 and 1984, ancient history), and seven Elite 8s; Michigan State had two national championships, one runner-up, and nine Final Fours, and thirteen Elite 8s—but one of two national championship, the runner-up, seven of nine the Final Fours, and nine of thirteen Elite 8s occurred under the “fluke” Tom Izzo.

[SeattleUte]

In all fairness to Scorchio, he may not be a groupie. He may be Larry Krystkowiak or Tommy Connor. Some of us let down the veil and some don’t.

[Scorcho]

To give the Utah basketball tradition deniers here (aka coaching staff groupies) some perspective, before this season Auburn had zero Final Fours, one elite 8, and four Sweet 16s; Texas Tech had zero Final Fours, one Elite 8 (in 2018 under “fluke” Chris Beard), and six Sweet 16s (but three of them under “flukes” Bobby Knight and Chris Beard); Virginia had two Final Fours (1981 and 1984, ancient history), and seven Elite 8s; Michigan State had two national championships, one runner-up, and nine Final Fours, and thirteen Elite 8s—but one of two national championship, the runner-up, seven of nine the Final Fours, and nine of thirteen Elite 8s occurred under the “fluke” Tom Izzo.

keep polishing that 1944 championship SeattleUte.

There was a time when Utah was a top 25 nationally ranked regarding college hoops programs, guess who keeps sliding down that list while schools with more recent accomplishments (Gonzaga, Oregon, Florida) leap frog them. Utah has fallen from that list because they had a 15 year gift from the gods. Without Majerus, we are UNLV without Tark. I wish it weren't true, but its reality.

If there is some magical coach elixir candidate that could do better than Krysko, hire him now. I'm not in bed with Larry, I'd love to see us do better. But were just not the kind of program that can attract a big name hire. Hell, we couldn't even lure Dave Rose away.

[DrumNFeather]

keep polishing that 1944 championship SeattleUte.

There was a time when Utah was a top 25 nationally ranked regarding college hoops programs, guess who keeps sliding down that list while schools with more recent accomplishments (Gonzaga, Oregon, Florida) leap frog them. Utah has fallen from that list because they had a 15 year gift from the gods. Without Majerus, we are UNLV without Tark. I wish it weren't true, but its reality.

If there is some magical coach elixir candidate that could do better than Krysko, hire him now. I'm not in bed with Larry, I'd love to see us do better. But were just not the kind of program that can attract a big name hire. Hell, we couldn't even lure Dave Rose away.

Did Larry tell you to say that? He did didn't he? Busted!

[SeattleUte]

Coach, I didn’t only cite the 1944 Championship, and the numbers don’t lie, but you don’t address them as I did.

You reveal your true colors by citing three schools as legit, two of whom had no tradition whatsoever before their current coaches, and one, Florida, has had none before or since Billy Donovan.

Unlike some here, I have not once said that Krystkowiak should be fired, only that he’s jut not getting the job done.

[LA Ute]

University of Virginia coach's first words after winning school's first championship: 'I'm humbled, Lord'

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/uva-coach-tony-bennetts-first-words-after-winning-schools-first-championship-im-humbled-lord

[LA Ute]

Uhh yeah, Matt Mooney transferred from Air Force to South Dakota to Texas Tech. Owens started at Tenn, went to St Johns and ended up at Texas Tech. Braxton Key started at Bama and went to Virginia. So much for that line of thinking.

[Chortle]

[SeattleUte]

University of Virginia coach's first words after winning school's first championship: 'I'm humbled, Lord'

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/uva-coach-tony-bennetts-first-words-after-winning-schools-first-championship-im-humbled-lord

That's a great outlook that I endorse. Now that you’ve found it, maybe you’ll stop trying to undermine our football coach.

[UtahsMrSports]

Looks like Demarlo Slocum may be on his way to UNLV.

[DrumNFeather]

Looks like Demarlo Slocum may be on his way to UNLV.

A staff shake up...just like we all asked for!

[DrumNFeather]

Looks like Demarlo Slocum may be on his way to UNLV.

Also - If the Utes end up looking in state for a new assistant coach, the top two assistants at UVU, Cody Fueger and Chris Burgess both have ties to the Majerus-era Ute program.

[UtahsMrSports]

A staff shake up...just like we all asked for!

Gotta love how the offseason went from little drama to a ton in less than 24 hours.

[Scorcho]

Coach, I didn’t only cite the 1944 Championship, and the numbers don’t lie, but you don’t address them as I did.

You reveal your true colors by citing three schools as legit, two of whom had no tradition whatsoever before their current coaches, and one, Florida, has had none before or since Billy Donovan.

Unlike some here, I have not once said that Krystkowiak should be fired, only that he’s jut not getting the job done.

1. Counselor, favor us a tale about Walt Misaka or Arnie Ferrin. If you have to go back 40-50 years to laud your basketball accomplishments, isn’t that a problem? USF had a great run back in the 50's. I suspect 9 out of 10 people couldn't tell you if USF still plays D1 hoops.

2. I don’t foresee Gonzaga or Florida being able to sustain their success. Like Utah, they have had a once in a generation type coach in Few and Donovan. Oregon might be able to (post Altman) because of their unique relationship with Nike.

Clearly there are basketball programs that are bigger than their coach and have sustained success over several coaching tenures like Kansas, North Carolina, UCLA, UK, Villanova, and there are programs that benefited from having a hall of fame coach at the helm for an extended period of time that won't likely see that level of success again. These are programs like Georgetown, UCONN, and Florida (Utah falls into this category). And there are programs that are in a wait and see position like Duke, Gonzaga.

3. Utah fans are having an identity crisis about where this program should be relevant to its new conference alignment. We want to think we're at Arizona or Oregon's level (and at one time we were better than both of those programs). In realty were more like USC or Stanford and schools like UW and ASU are nipping at our tail.

[sancho]

Gotta love how the offseason went from little drama to a ton in less than 24 hours.

Yeah, I think I got all my panic out. Now, like AJ pointed out, we all just wait to see how things go next season. NCAA tourney or bust, which is where we were before the drama anyway.

[SeattleUte]

Yeah, I think I got all my panic out. Now, like AJ pointed out, we all just wait to see how things go next season. NCAA tourney or bust, which is where we were before the drama anyway.

Fortunately, LAUte won’t be sticking his nose in this since the new AD has no time for him.

[UTEopia]

Utah fans are having an identity crisis about where this program should be relevant to its new conference alignment. We want to think we're at Arizona or Oregon's level (and at one time we were better than both of those programs). In realty were more like USC or Stanford and schools like UW and ASU are nipping at our tail.

I don't think that is true at all. I don't know anyone who believes we are at the Arizona or Oregon level or the UCLA level, for that matter. I don't even think we are at the level of UW or ASU, but those are the schools, along with Stanford, we will battle with to stay above No. 5 in the conference. Fans lose hope when they don't see a program trending in a positive direction. This is our 3rd season since Poetl. Kuzma's final season was a rebuild with a first round loss in NIT. The next season we got to the NIT Finals, which was fun, but it was a rebuild and without Bibbins we would have been in real trouble. This was a rebuild and next year will again be a rebuild. This program is treading water at best. I really question anyone who sees the program differently.

[LA Ute]

Fortunately, LAUte won’t be sticking his nose in this since the new AD has no time for him.

Au contraire, mon frere. Soon I will have a photo of Mark Harlan on my living room fireplace mantle, right next to my Chris Hill shrine. When will you ever stop underestimating my sycophancy? You know I have a hit list of coaches I want fired and I won't stop until I am done. (I am thinking the U. should drop lacrosse, BTW. It's been a waste of resources and the team loses all the time. I'll go to work on that soon.)

[Old Standing ute]

Looks like Demarlo Slocum may be on his way to UNLV.

He was mainly involved in recruiting, they will need someone with connections in AAU circuit.

Names??

[UTEopia]

He was mainly involved in recruiting, they will need someone with connections in AAU circuit.

Names??

It is being suggested that if Slocum leaves we are likely to see at least 1 more transfer of a player with ties to Las Vegas.

[SeattleUte]

Au contraire, mon frere. Soon I will have a photo of Mark Harlan on my living room fireplace mantle, right next to my Chris Hill shrine. When will you ever stop underestimating my sycophancy? You know I have a hit list of coaches I want fired and I won't stop until I am done. (I am thinking the U. should drop lacrosse, BTW. It's been a waste of resources and the team loses all the time. I'll go to work on that soon.)

Funny stuff, LAUte. Well done.

[UtahsMrSports]

It is being suggested that if Slocum leaves we are likely to see at least 1 more transfer of a player with ties to Las Vegas.

Markham is reporting that Slocum is the glue guy and is the guy that mediates between larry and the players. If he leaves, I could see more transfers. I mean, at this point, why not?

[UTEopia]

A staff shake up...just like we all asked for!

Wrong guy leaving. We don't ned the guy who is different in every way from the other 3 to leave. We needed one of the others to leave and be replaced by someone who can relate better to the players.

[DrumNFeather]

Wrong guy leaving. We don't ned the guy who is different in every way from the other 3 to leave. We needed one of the others to leave and be replaced by someone who can relate better to the players.

I know...I was being sarcastic. From all accounts this would be a big blow.

[SeattleUte]

Markham is reporting that Slocum is the glue guy and is the guy that mediates between larry and the players. If he leaves, I could see more transfers. I mean, at this point, why not?

If there are mass transfers, a good lawyer should be able to find termination for cause grounds somewhere in the debacle, nixing the buyout or making a negotiation of a substantial discount possible.

[Scorcho]

If there are mass transfers, a good lawyer should be able to find termination for cause grounds somewhere in the debacle, nixing the buyout or making a negotiation of a substantial discount possible.

I thought you made it clear yesterday, you weren't calling for Larry's head?

Anyone know a good lawyer? ;)

[sancho]

Anyone know a good lawyer? ;)

I don't. I only know lawyers who post on message boards all day.:)

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

I thought you made it clear yesterday, you weren't calling for Larry's head?

Anyone know a good lawyer? ;)

To be fair, he did qualify the whole statement with "IF." That's how you know he's a good lawyer.

[LA Ute]

Ute center Jayce Johnson is in the NCAA transfer portal, with one season left to play
(https://www.sltrib.com/sports/utah-utes/2019/04/09/ute-center-jayce-johnson/)
Utah starting center Jayce Johnson is in the NCAA transfer portal, ESPN and other outlets reported Tuesday.

The 7-foot center, who averaged 7.1 points and a team-high 7.7 rebounds this past season, is said to be weary of Larry Krystkowiak’s demanding style of coaching and would like a bigger offensive role, The Salt Lake Tribune has learned.

Interesting bit about LK's "demanding style of coaching." I don't know what to make of that.

https://www.sltrib.com/sports/utah-utes/2019/04/09/ute-center-jayce-johnson/

[UtahsMrSports]

Ute center Jayce Johnson is in the NCAA transfer portal, with one season left to play
(https://www.sltrib.com/sports/utah-utes/2019/04/09/ute-center-jayce-johnson/)

Interesting bit about LK's "demanding style of coaching." I don't know what to make of that.

https://www.sltrib.com/sports/utah-utes/2019/04/09/ute-center-jayce-johnson/

I think its pretty clear; we have a coach that won't kowtow to kids trying to make his way in the AAU generation. We have seen a number of guys reacher higher highs than most thought they could get under him and guys who simply couldn't/wouldn't deal with it.

I mean, "would like a bigger offensive role"...........sure.............who doesn't? Thats not really a larry issue; hes proven time and again that if the center is worthy, he is happy to run the whole offense through him.

[concerned]

Jayce wants a bigger offensive role? I am sure there is nothing the staff would have liked more. Jayce isn't competent on offense. It is not like anyone is holding him back.

[LA Ute]

Jayce wants a bigger offensive role? I am sure there is nothing the staff would have liked more. Jayce isn't competent on offense. It is not like anyone is holding him back.

Absolutely true.

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

Jayce wants a bigger offensive role? I am sure there is nothing the staff would have liked more. Jayce isn't competent on offense. It is not like anyone is holding him back.

I think Jayce probably wanted more perimeter opportunities. You can tell by his free throw form that it would translate seamlessly with amazing results.

[concerned]

Hope springs eternal


Bronek Wawrzynczuk‏ @Eurospects (https://twitter.com/Eurospects)FollowFollow
@Eurospects


Big fan of Mikael Jantunen game. Elite rebounder with solid upper & lower frame. Ok athlete, excellent IQ, good court vision and even some switchability. Well rounded and team oriented. PF but truly positionless player. Reminds a bit of Luke Sikma. Jumper still coming along


Bronek Wawrzynczuk @Eurospects
After watching HBA Marsky practise yesterday, now checking best Finnish talents in game situation in domestic 2nd tier. Plenty of college recruits headlined by Utah commit: Mikael Jantunen and Ville Tahvanainen (Bradley).…

[sancho]

Jayce wants a bigger offensive role? I am sure there is nothing the staff would have liked more. Jayce isn't competent on
offense. It is not like anyone is holding him back.

As a missionary in Peru, I could score on every possession against the very short Peruvians. Maybe Jayce needs to transfer to South America.

I actually think Jayce reached a point this season where it was reasonable to give him the ball in the post a few times per game. He's not about to start commanding double teams down there, though.

[sancho]

I think its pretty clear; we have a coach that won't kowtow to kids trying to make his way in the AAU generation. We have seen a number of guys reacher higher highs than most thought they could get under him and guys who simply couldn't/wouldn't deal with it.


I'd like to see what this means, because, as I've said before, Larry is softer on his players in game than Hopkins or Miller. I can't remember him really laying into anyone all season long. Maybe an occasional glare or something.

[DrumNFeather]

I'd like to see what this means, because, as I've said before, Larry is softer on his players in game than Hopkins or Miller. I can't remember him really laying into anyone all season long. Maybe an occasional glare or something.

Some of it has to be the notion of him "running off players." He had that exchange with Vante Hendrix during the Hawaii game, and Hendrix transferred right after that.

[Old Standing ute]

Some of it has to be the notion of him "running off players." He had that exchange with Vante Hendrix during the Hawaii game, and Hendrix transferred right after that.

Vante got a T for talking to a ref—-he had to say something to him, & from TV it did not appear that he said very much; maybe it was in the locker room.

Izzo & Big Rick when he was here are/were tough on their players.

[UTEopia]

I'd like to see what this means, because, as I've said before, Larry is softer on his players in game than Hopkins or Miller. I can't remember him really laying into anyone all season long. Maybe an occasional glare or something.

Most kids can take hard coaching so long as they know that the coach has their back and is working for their betterment. I heard Whit say on many, many times to those on the staff about the team in general as well as specific players. Coach them hard when we are winning or they are having personal success and love them up when they are not. Maybe Larry just doesn't take the time or have the ability to develop the level of trust required by some players in order to push them the way he thinks he thinks he can.

[sancho]

Maybe Larry just doesn't take the time or have the ability to develop the level of trust required by some players in order to push them the way he thinks he thinks he can.

Yeah, maybe. I'm just saying that all the hard stuff must be behind closed doors because we don't really see it during games like we do with other coaches.

[LA Ute]

It's been a 2-3 years, but I did attend some practices and Larry was forceful on occasion but not hard on the players. No yelling, no profanity, nothing like that.

[chrisrenrut]

Take Kragthorpe's comments with a grain of salt. He used the terms "is said to be. . ." and "the Trib has learned" when talking about Larry being demanding, and Jayce wanting a bigger offensive role. Just rumors and speculation, nothing about a source. May or may not be true, so don't get the pitchforks out just yet.

[Old Standing ute]

At the Syracuse news conference here at the NCAA tournament, players & Boeheim were asked repeatedly about a player who had just been suspended for the upcoming game because of team rule violation—Kragthorpe was there & reported the next day the player would not play due to an injury.?

[sancho]

At the Syracuse news conference here at the NCAA tournament, players & Boeheim were asked repeatedly about a player who had just been suspended for the upcoming game because of team rule violation—Kragthorpe was there & reported the next day the player would not play due to an injury.?

Huh, he must have been mixed up? The starting PG for the 'cuse was suspended, and it was is 2nd suspension of the season for rules violations.

[UtahsMrSports]

Take Kragthorpe's comments with a grain of salt. He used the terms "is said to be. . ." and "the Trib has learned" when talking about Larry being demanding, and Jayce wanting a bigger offensive role. Just rumors and speculation, nothing about a source. May or may not be true, so don't get the pitchforks out just yet.

I'm almost 100% sure Kurt got that from jayce's dad.

[Old Standing ute]

Huh, he must have been mixed up? The starting PG for the 'cuse was suspended, and it was is 2nd suspension of the season for rules violations.

mixed up? He made it up .

not sure he checks his facts—.or sources.

[SeattleUte]

I don't. I only know lawyers who post on message boards all day.:)

Who are you talking about? You're the one who spends all day here. So what does that make whatever you are?

[sancho]

Who are you talking about? You're the one who spends all day here. So what does that make whatever you are?

Me? I'm a bum.

[Irving Washington]

Me? I'm a bum.
I'm a bum too

[SoCalPat]

Jayce wants a bigger offensive role? I am sure there is nothing the staff would have liked more. Jayce isn't competent on offense. It is not like anyone is holding him back.

If Jayce was better than his career 49 percent from the line, while not coming off a career season-worst 40 percent, he might have more room to complain about his role in the offense.

[LA Ute]

Kurt Kragthorpe:

Ute athletic director Mark Harlan is ‘very bullish’ about Larry Krystkowiak’s basketball program, labeling him ‘an elite coach’

https://www.sltrib.com/sports/utah-utes/2019/04/12/ute-athletic-director/

Hmmmm.

[UTEopia]

Kurt Kragthorpe:

Ute athletic director Mark Harlan is ‘very bullish’ about Larry Krystkowiak’s basketball program, labeling him ‘an elite coach’

https://www.sltrib.com/sports/utah-utes/2019/04/12/ute-athletic-director/

Hmmmm.

I have not listened to the interview but reports are that LK and Harlan and in a defensive posture. I think they both know the natives are restless. I am ready for him to leave, but he probably knows there needs to be clear progress this year. What that means I can't say. Top tier NIT seed probably does
it, but to me that is too little too late.

[SeattleUte]

Kurt Kragthorpe:

Ute athletic director Mark Harlan is ‘very bullish’ about Larry Krystkowiak’s basketball program, labeling him ‘an elite coach’

https://www.sltrib.com/sports/utah-utes/2019/04/12/ute-athletic-director/

Hmmmm.

This kind of statement from the AD always means that the coach is on the hot seat.

[LA Ute]

The big donors (I am not one) are surely expressing unhappiness about LK to Harlan. I have had only a couple of short encounters with Mark, but he is very candid and direct. I’m sure Larry knows exactly what Mark thinks..

[sancho]

I have not listened to the interview but reports are that LK and Harlan and in a defensive posture. I think they both know the natives are restless. I am ready for him to leave, but he probably knows there needs to be clear progress this year. What that means I can't say. Top tier NIT seed probably does
it, but to me that is too little too late.

What will save Larry's job?

1) An NCAA tournament bid for sure.
2) Anything else that has fans very excited. That could be a clear indication of something special or an unprecedented recruiting year or some unanticipated thing. If, by the end of 2019-20, we are not an energized fan base, I think he's gone (and should be).

[UTEopia]

What will save Larry's job?

1) An NCAA tournament bid for sure.
2) Anything else that has fans very excited. That could be a clear indication of something special or an unprecedented recruiting year or some unanticipated thing. If, by the end of 2019-20, we are not an energized fan base, I think he's gone (and should be).

I think you are right.

[LA Ute]

I think you are right.

I do too.

[Scorcho]

What will save Larry's job?

1) An NCAA tournament bid for sure.
2) Anything else that has fans very excited. That could be a clear indication of something special or an unprecedented recruiting year or some unanticipated thing. If, by the end of 2019-20, we are not an energized fan base, I think he's gone (and should be).

I think the program needs a philosophy change, whether that’s with Krysko or not I don’t really care. In hindsight, one of Larry’s mistakes was that he recruited hard for kids that we had little chance landing. For every success like Poetl, it seem to backfire with Markannen, Mannion, etc. For whatever reason we seem to be still trying to find ourselves in the PAC-12. We're not at a level where we can land 1 and done's and unfortunately, we’re in a conference where half the schools have a sexier hoops profile than we do. That wasn’t the case in the MWC/WAC.

[DrumNFeather]

What will save Larry's job?

1) An NCAA tournament bid for sure.
2) Anything else that has fans very excited. That could be a clear indication of something special or an unprecedented recruiting year or some unanticipated thing. If, by the end of 2019-20, we are not an energized fan base, I think he's gone (and should be).

What would excite the fans though? A home win vs. Minnesota? Beating BYU again? (That'll do it for some). Winning the Myrtle invitational? Beating Kentucky on a neutral court? All I've heard so far this offseason is how finishing in the top four of the league is immaterial...so we know that won't do it. I'm genuinely curious to know what would make Larry an attractive coach for the majority of the fan base who has already bailed on him/the program until he's gone. Winning doesn't even seem to move the needle there.

[snafu]

I think the program needs a philosophy change, whether that’s with Krysko or not I don’t really care. In hindsight, one of Larry’s mistakes was that he recruited hard for kids that we had little chance landing. For every success like Poetl, it seem to backfire with Markannen, Mannion, etc. For whatever reason we seem to be still trying to find ourselves in the PAC-12. We're not at a level where we can land 1 and done's and unfortunately, we’re in a conference where half the schools have a sexier hoops profile than we do. That wasn’t the case in the MWC/WAC.

It's hard to fault LK for pursuing these guys with ties to the program. A lot of these guys got paid and that swayed them to other schools. That's the crappy part of college hoops that is killing it for me. Kids play now for the highest bidder.

[Utebiquitous]

Drum,
My answer to your question is NCAA Tournament play.

Scorcho's "the program needs a philosophy change" really hits on it for me. I am one of those unrealistic fans who can't let go of the Majerus years who thinks we should be in the NCAA tournament every year. While I'm realizing tempering that expectation is a reality how low should I go? One out of every four years seems like too low of an expectation.

I say this because I think it relates to Scorcho's comment on a philosophy change. What is our philosophy? What is our style of play under Larry? We've commented on this a few times now here on the board. Larry talks about togetherness and toughness. I think we've seen good examples of the former in the last two teams but we see no toughness. This team has no calling card. We don't have near the talent coming in year after year to just go where the talent takes you.

Without a strong philosophy and style of play our NCAA Tournament expectations may need to be lower than one in every four years. I can't believe I'm even writing that.

[DrumNFeather]

Drum,
My answer to your question is NCAA Tournament play.

Scorcho's "the program needs a philosophy change" really hits on it for me. I am one of those unrealistic fans who can't let go of the Majerus years who thinks we should be in the NCAA tournament every year. While I'm realizing tempering that expectation is a reality how low should I go? One out of every four years seems like too low of an expectation.

I say this because I think it relates to Scorcho's comment on a philosophy change. What is our philosophy? What is our style of play under Larry? We've commented on this a few times now here on the board. Larry talks about togetherness and toughness. I think we've seen good examples of the former in the last two teams but we see no toughness. This team has no calling card. We don't have near the talent coming in year after year to just go where the talent takes you.

Without a strong philosophy and style of play our NCAA Tournament expectations may need to be lower than one in every four years. I can't believe I'm even writing that.


I think that's fair.

I feel like there have been a few moments the last few years where the team has pretty clearly not been physical enough to play with some of the big boys (see the NIT final vs. PSU). I think that has stuck with Larry, and as such he's tried to create a more physical team. Problem is, he's trying to do it with a bunch of freshmen. We finally started seeing some of that physicality from Jayce, but he's got a fairly limited offensive skill set. Tillman and Allen have that ability and I think Battin has the potential to be a lunchpail/garbage man type player for us. But, to your point, I'm not sure we've fully committed to that style of play. Perhaps that improves with a guy who can better distribute the ball, but that is putting a lot on the shoulders of Rylan Jones. We are in desperate need of an experienced grad transfer (ala Bibbins) who can help in that area.

[SeattleUte]

Drum,
My answer to your question is NCAA Tournament play.

Scorcho's "the program needs a philosophy change" really hits on it for me. I am one of those unrealistic fans who can't let go of the Majerus years who thinks we should be in the NCAA tournament every year. While I'm realizing tempering that expectation is a reality how low should I go? One out of every four years seems like too low of an expectation.

I say this because I think it relates to Scorcho's comment on a philosophy change. What is our philosophy? What is our style of play under Larry? We've commented on this a few times now here on the board. Larry talks about togetherness and toughness. I think we've seen good examples of the former in the last two teams but we see no toughness. This team has no calling card. We don't have near the talent coming in year after year to just go where the talent takes you.

Without a strong philosophy and style of play our NCAA Tournament expectations may need to be lower than one in every four years. I can't believe I'm even writing that.

Like.

[LA Ute]

Donnie Daniels is coming to Utah:

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2019/apr/16/donny-daniels-leaving-gonzaga-dialing-back-after-f/?amp-content=amp&__twitter_impression=true

This should help, but enough?

[UTEopia]

What would excite the fans though? A home win vs. Minnesota? Beating BYU again? (That'll do it for some). Winning the Myrtle invitational? Beating Kentucky on a neutral court? All I've heard so far this offseason is how finishing in the top four of the league is immaterial...so we know that won't do it. I'm genuinely curious to know what would make Larry an attractive coach for the majority of the fan base who has already bailed on him/the program until he's gone. Winning doesn't even seem to move the needle there.

I'm not sure anything he does will change the way the fans feel. Did it seem like we were winning this year? It didn't seem that way to me. The fans have mostly bailed. Another "winning" season with a 4th place PAC finish and no NCAA will not cut it. However, it is hard for a school like Utah to fire a coach who takes them to the NCAA's.

[concerned]

I'm not sure anything he does will change the way the fans feel. Did it seem like we were winning this year? It didn't seem that way to me. The fans have mostly bailed. Another "winning" season with a 4th place PAC finish and no NCAA will not cut it. However, it is hard for a school like Utah to fire a coach who takes them to the NCAA's.
I feel the same way you do. I think having players like Delon and Poeltl would excite interest.

[SeattleUte]

What would excite the fans though? A home win vs. Minnesota? Beating BYU again? (That'll do it for some). Winning the Myrtle invitational? Beating Kentucky on a neutral court? All I've heard so far this offseason is how finishing in the top four of the league is immaterial...so we know that won't do it. I'm genuinely curious to know what would make Larry an attractive coach for the majority of the fan base who has already bailed on him/the program until he's gone. Winning doesn't even seem to move the needle there.

Are you effing serious? You can't be this clueless. You've wracked your brain and just can't imagine what more the fans could want than what they got last season? What has gotten into you? What the fans want is to go back to the NCAA playoffs and compete. PERIOD! Good grief. Y don't eve list is as possibility. See concern's post. No, fourth place in the Pac 12 with no postseason (or an NIT) is not good enough.

You know, too bad they scheduled the preseason the way they did in Kuzma's last season or they may have gotten an NCAA bid.

[sancho]

Are you effing serious? You can't be this clueless. You've wracked your brain and just can't imagine what more the fans could want than what they got last season? What has gotten into you? What the fans want is to go back to the NCAA playoffs and compete. PERIOD! Good grief. Y don't eve list is as possibility. See concern's post. No, fourth place in the Pac 12 with no postseason (or an NIT) is not good enough.

You know, too bad they scheduled the preseason the way they did in Kuzma's last season or they may have gotten an NCAA bid.

I shouldn't respond because I think you just troll intentionally, but you did take his comment completely out of context. Of course an NCAA bid would excite fans - he already accepted that fact and was wondering if there is anything short of an NCAA bid that would excite fans. He is concluding that there probably is not.

[DrumNFeather]

Are you effing serious? You can't be this clueless. You've wracked your brain and just can't imagine what more the fans could want than what they got last season? What has gotten into you? What the fans want is to go back to the NCAA playoffs and compete. PERIOD! Good grief. Y don't eve list is as possibility. See concern's post. No, fourth place in the Pac 12 with no postseason (or an NIT) is not good enough.

You know, too bad they scheduled the preseason the way they did in Kuzma's last season or they may have gotten an NCAA bid.

This is the exact thing I would expect to hear, and have heard, from folks who don't really pay attention to the program or watch games, but run out after every loss to make sure we all know he wants Larry fired when they lose a game and are dead silent when he wins games. Mission accomplished.

You can't just say "make the NCAA tournament" as a metric without putting context to what that means. Typically that means a 20 win season for most P5 teams and in leagues that are really strong, you can probably get away with 18 wins. Right now, the Pac 12 doesn't have that luxury, as I'm sure you know.

So what does that mean?

First of all, it means that no other league is dealing with what ours is dealing with right now. The Pac 12 had two teams that were sub 200 NET ranking teams (Cal and WSU) and in Cal's case, they were over 300 most of the year. The closest any other league came to that? The ACC with Wake Forest at 184. So everyone goes into Pac 12 play with a 2-3 game hole playing against teams that are ranked around the same level as a couple of SWAC schools. Knowing this, you've got to adjust your non-conference schedule accordingly, and Utah actually did a decent job with this, but some of the teams they lost to who looked good at the time (BYU, NW) ended up not being very good. If you really want to know where their season turned as far as the tournament goes, it was that loss to Hawaii in the John Wooden Classic. A win over Hawaii puts them against Seton Hall (Q1) and against Fresno/Miami (which both ended up in the same general area s Grand Canyon, so that may end up being a wash).

The point is, because Utah has very little margin for error, they've got to make the most of their opportunities in the non-conference schedule. They didn't do that well enough this year. Part of that has to do with Larry's system (whatever that may be). His teams get better as the season goes on, but it hurts them in non-conference play because it is hard to get contributions from newcomers...and when you have several newcomers in a year it becomes a problem. Larry recently said in an interview with Kragthorpe that he and his staff need to figure out a way to accelerate the learning process so that they can have more success earlier in the season - so he is aware that this is a problem and is working with his staff to fix it.

So what does this all mean for next year's demand of "make the tournament, or else!"

Let's assume that they once again go 11-7 in league play. They've done that now three years in a row. That means they would need to go 9-3 in non-conference play to get to 20 wins...or win in the first round of the Pac 12 tournament...whatever combination gets you to 20.

We know they play the following teams so far:

vs. Minnesota (finished 61 in the NET)
vs. BYU (finished 85 in the NET)
@ Nevada (finished 23 in the NET, but have been absolutely gutted)
@ Missouri (finished 77 in the NET - this one is not for sure, but last year Andy Hill said they 'kicked this one a year down the road')
N - Weber St. (finished 182 in the NET)
N - Kentucky (finished 6 in the NET)
N - Myrtle Beach Invite (Miss St., Baylor, Villanova, Ohio, Coastal Carolina, Middle Tennessee, Tulane) - If I had to guess, I would say their opening opponent is either Coastal Carolina (163) or Ohio (175). Either way, a win there probably puts them in a position to play two of the three big boys in either the championship or third place game). They MUST win their first game in this tournament. Period.

So that leaves 3 more games to schedule, assuming these are all actually going to be played. There are several ways they could go here, but the bottom line is that because Cal will be historically bad and WSU will be close behind, they cannot afford to schedule NW Nazarine.

So when we talk about what the team needs to do to make the tourney next year, it begins with what they do in the non-conference schedule. I would contend that they must win those home games against MIN and BYU, beat a down Nevada on the road, beat Weber, beat their first round MBI opponent. Doing that would get them to 5 wins...and that is a metric we can start to work with from an informed position. If Missouri ends up on the schedule, they should be improved, but beatable. Kentucky will reload, but it will be a young team. Baylor, MSU and Nova will all be tough, for sure, but having them on the schedule will help.

It will be interesting to see what they do with those remaining 3 or 4 games. One thing we know for sure is that they can't be dogs. Krags suggested in his conversation with Larry that they've got some "interesting" things in the works, so we'll see.

The problem that Utah has right now relative to fan interest is a chicken/egg problem. Would winning help bring some fans back to the Huntsman Center? Of course (the students should go anyway...no excuses there). Would it help for people like you who've turned on Larry and decided that he needs to go no matter what? Probably not...because no matter what he does, he'll fall short (See LA Ute and Kyle). That's a fine position to take, but just be honest about it.

One more thing - you mentioned Kuzma's last year. We scheduled Xavier and Butler in the non-conference, and also played UVU that year. The single biggest thing that prevented us from making the tourney that year? Kuzma twisting his ankle and not playing vs. USF in the Diamond Head Classic. A win there puts us against Illinois St. (finished with a top 50 RPI) and then SDSU, verses playing Hawaii (RPI in the 300s) and Stephen F. Austin.

So the bottom line here is, if you want to make the NCAA Tournament, you need to understand what that entails, particularly in the current state of the Pac 12 and who Utah is playing next year. Not knowing these things means you're arguing from a position of ignorance.

[UtahsMrSports]

That was a Scottie Pippen over Patrick Ewing, balls to the face/mixed with Tom Chambers over Mark Jackson type facial that DNF just served up. Take the L on this one, Seattle.

[sancho]

First of all, it means that no other league is dealing with what ours is dealing with right now. The Pac 12 had two teams that were sub 200 NET ranking teams (Cal and WSU) and in Cal's case, they were over 300 most of the year. The closest any other league came to that? The ACC with Wake Forest at 184. So everyone goes into Pac 12 play with a 2-3 game hole playing against teams that are ranked around the same level as a couple of SWAC schools. Knowing this, you've got to adjust your non-conference schedule accordingly, and Utah actually did a decent job with this, but some of the teams they lost to who looked good at the time (BYU, NW) ended up not being very good. If you really want to know where their season turned as far as the tournament goes, it was that loss to Hawaii in the John Wooden Classic. A win over Hawaii puts them against Seton Hall (Q1) and against Fresno/Miami (which both ended up in the same general area s Grand Canyon, so that may end up being a wash).

All the talk on scheduling I think distracts from the main issues - we are perpetually rebuilding and seem to have no clear system from season to season. Scheduling is important, but it's 5% of the NCAA bid picture. The other 95% is being good. Good teams get in regardless of schedule. Mediocre bubble teams pray their schedule sets them apart from other bubble teams.



So what does this all mean for next year's demand of "make the tournament, or else!"


Ultimatums make no strategic sense when it comes to coaching decisions (I know it's not your ultimatum).



Would winning help bring some fans back to the Huntsman Center?


Of course, the fans never really left. Our attendance puts us at #2 in the conference. The fans may start leaving, but it hasn't happened yet.



One more thing - you mentioned Kuzma's last year. We scheduled Xavier and Butler in the non-conference, and also played UVU that year. The single biggest thing that prevented us from making the tourney that year? Kuzma twisting his ankle and not playing vs. USF in the Diamond Head Classic. A win there puts us against Illinois St. (finished with a top 50 RPI) and then SDSU, verses playing Hawaii (RPI in the 300s) and Stephen F. Austin.


I doubt that gets us into the NCAA. We needed to close out one of the games against Zona or Oregon that year. That's what we needed. Illinois State would not have been enough.



Not knowing these things means you're arguing from a position of ignorance.

Seattle would never do that!

[DrumNFeather]

All the talk on scheduling I think distracts from the main issues - we are perpetually rebuilding and seem to have no clear system from season to season. Scheduling is important, but it's 5% of the NCAA bid picture. The other 95% is being good. Good teams get in regardless of schedule. Mediocre bubble teams pray their schedule sets them apart from other bubble teams.



I'm not sure that is entirely true. I think both Colorado and Oregon St. are tournament teams with better non-conference schedules. Colorado finished 66 in the NET and Oregon St. 87. Saint Johns and ASU were in at 63 and 73, respectively. I don't think there's any question that Colorado was one of the better teams in the league towards the end of the year. Not surprisingly, both schools have coaches similar to Larry, where their teams get better as the year progresses. Colorado literally played nobody in the non-conference and had 3 bad losses (@USD, @Hawaii and N vs Indiana St.) If they put together a halfway decent non-conf schedule, I think they are at least in the discussion. And again, having Cal and WSU on the schedule just killed our league.

[sancho]

I'm not sure that is entirely true. I think both Colorado and Oregon St. are tournament teams with better non-conference schedules. Colorado finished 66 in the NET and Oregon St. 87. Saint Johns and ASU were in at 63 and 73, respectively. I don't think there's any question that Colorado was one of the better teams in the league towards the end of the year. Not surprisingly, both schools have coaches similar to Larry, where their teams get better as the year progresses. Colorado literally played nobody in the non-conference and had 3 bad losses (@USD, @Hawaii and N vs Indiana St.) If they put together a halfway decent non-conf schedule, I think they are at least in the discussion. And again, having Cal and WSU on the schedule just killed our league.

I'm not as familiar with St John's case this year, but ASU once again relied on one big win to get them in (Kansas). Scheduling teams like Kentucky, Kansas, etc, gives you that kind of lottery ticket and is just great in general. You can't always land that fish on your schedule, though. I don't think CU or OSU were anywhere close to the bubble; I doubt that a different OOC schedule would have mattered much for either.

Let me put it this way - there's only so much you can do to game the NCAA bid system. You should do as much of that as you can, of course. In the end though, you still have to be good. There are the locks for bids, there's the bubble, and there are those on the outside looking in. The OOC schedule matters for those on the bubble. In our NIT years, we weren't even on the bubble. Removing our 300+ NET opponents would not have changed that. Winning vs good teams would have changed that, but we weren't good enough to win vs good teams.

[DrumNFeather]

I'm not as familiar with St John's case this year, but ASU once again relied on one big win to get them in (Kansas). Scheduling teams like Kentucky, Kansas, etc, gives you that kind of lottery ticket and is just great in general. You can't always land that fish on your schedule, though. I don't think CU or OSU were anywhere close to the bubble; I doubt that a different OOC schedule would have mattered much for either.

Let me put it this way - there's only so much you can do to game the NCAA bid system. You should do as much of that as you can, of course. In the end though, you still have to be good. There are the locks for bids, there's the bubble, and there are those on the outside looking in. The OOC schedule matters for those on the bubble. In our NIT years, we weren't even on the bubble. Removing our 300+ NET opponents would not have changed that. Winning vs good teams would have changed that, but we weren't good enough to win vs good teams.

Oh, I get what you're saying totally. At the end of the day, you still have to beat good teams or good ish teams. My point is just that, for a team like Colorado who finishes with a NET of 66, if they had played our schedule, I think they are at least in that bubble conversation. Scheduling good teams, even teams that go from NET 50-150 allows you a little more leeway in terms of wins and losses. That's why we saw 18 win teams from the SEC, Big 12, and ACC in the conversation. Unfortunately, Pac 12 teams don't have that luxury, so if you are a Utah or Colorado, you've got to go find yourself games you can win that aren't going to hurt you (Tulsa) to beef up the bottom of your schedule. Obviously the ideal is being a 25 win team and having there be no doubt.

[sancho]

My point is just that, for a team like Colorado who finishes with a NET of 66, if they had played our schedule, I think they are at least in that bubble conversation.

I think if CU plays our schedule and wins some of the good games, they are in the bubble conversation. Otherwise, I don't think the schedule alone does anything for them. That's one of the good things about NET over RPI. Remember the days of wild RPI increases after losing to good teams? Yikes.

But we agree - we should schedule strategically. If we are on the bubble, it will matter.

[UTEopia]

Of course, the fans never really left. Our attendance puts us at #2 in the conference. The fans may start leaving, but it hasn't happened yet.



Announced attendance and actual attendance are two different things. I don't know how many student seats they count, but they count way more than are actually there. The lower bowl seats about 8,000 people. It was never close to full and the upper bowl never had more than 1,000. My guess is that actual butts in the seats averaged about 7,500 or so.

[Rocker Ute]

Announced attendance and actual attendance are two different things. I don't know how many student seats they count, but they count way more than are actually there. The lower bowl seats about 8,000 people. It was never close to full and the upper bowl never had more than 1,000. My guess is that actual butts in the seats averaged about 7,500 or so.

My brother and I were talking today about the overall state of college basketball, and that it wasn't really until the sweet-16 that the games were much fun to watch. It finally got pared down to the good teams. Sadly CBB is on the decline and I think that unless things get REALLY special up on the hill again, we'll never see attendance like we once had.

[UTEopia]

DrumNFeather, that was an excellent analysis of the importance of scheduling. Someone, maybe you tweeted something with reference to Utah's OOC this past year. Apparently we played 4 level 5 teams and 1 level 4 team (these are all bad, bad teams) OOC. You can afford 1 of those, but not almost half of your OOC. Improving OOC will also improve attendance, and I am not talking about scheduling big boys. If you are going to play NW Nazarene, play Westminster instead. Why play Idaho St. when you can play Weber, SUU or UVU. Play USU H/H every year for hell sakes - Nobody is coming to watch you play Tulsa.

[Scorcho]

I don’t know if DrumNFeather is Mrs. Krysko, Demarlo Slocum or the ghost of Walt Misaka, but that was eloquently laid out. Nice job Arnie ;)


From my vantage point, Utah basketball has a couple of other problems that it just has to wade through and wait out. The first is the collegiate basketball scandal. Next to nothing has been done about the black cloud hanging over college hoops. Its nauseating that Miller is still at AZ, Wilson is reinstated at LSU, and Enfield is still at USC. My enthusiasm for the sport took a big hit last year, and the scandal is why.


Additionally, the success of Utah football and the Utah Jazz hurts Ute hoops. It just does. Money and time that I would normally spend on Ute basketball went to the Holiday Bowl instead. For whatever reason we don’t seem like we’ve matured enough as a university sports program to be able to invest in hoops and football simultaneously. The season tickets base for basketball was less than 7,000, and yet there is a 3,000 waiting list for seats for football. There were basketball conference games this season where the upper bowl at the Huntsman Center was closed and draped. How sad is that? And yet across town all 41 Jazz home games were sellouts. Entertainment dollars that typically went to U hoops went elsewhere. Current fan interest seems to be as low as ever, some of that is due to Larry K. but there are a host of other problems that can’t be fixed by a new head man.

(this space reserved for accusations of me of being related to Larry's staff :) )

[UTEopia]

My brother and I were talking today about the overall state of college basketball, and that it wasn't really until the sweet-16 that the games were much fun to watch. It finally got pared down to the good teams. Sadly CBB is on the decline and I think that unless things get REALLY special up on the hill again, we'll never see attendance like we once had.

True, but the lack of program identity and the refusal to play local teams doesn't fuel fan interest.

[concerned]

True, but the lack of program identity and the refusal to play local teams doesn't fuel fan interest.

I also think Larry's system is hard to watch. It is so slow and so deliberate. So much passing around the perimeter until the shot clock winds down. A lot of scores in the 60's. Relatively few offensive possessions. Laborious.

[DrumNFeather]

DrumNFeather, that was an excellent analysis of the importance of scheduling. Someone, maybe you tweeted something with reference to Utah's OOC this past year. Apparently we played 4 level 5 teams and 1 level 4 team (these are all bad, bad teams) OOC. You can afford 1 of those, but not almost half of your OOC. Improving OOC will also improve attendance, and I am not talking about scheduling big boys. If you are going to play NW Nazarene, play Westminster instead. Why play Idaho St. when you can play Weber, SUU or UVU. Play USU H/H every year for hell sakes - Nobody is coming to watch you play Tulsa.

Totally agree. I think scheduling regionally relevant games in the non-conference makes sense, and that includes road games. Every bit helps.

[sancho]

True, but the lack of program identity and the refusal to play local teams doesn't fuel fan interest.

I agree with everything everyone has said about the schedule, but I think the schedule talk is a bit of a distraction. The program has bigger problems than a lackluster November schedule. If we lose fans, it will be because of those bigger problems - the constant rebuilding, the lack of a system, and the poor performance in general.

Of course, the scheduling problem is probably easier to fix than the bigger issues.

[SeattleUte]

This is the exact thing I would expect to hear, and have heard, from folks who don't really pay attention to the program or watch games, but run out after every loss to make sure we all know he wants Larry fired when they lose a game and are dead silent when he wins games. Mission accomplished.

You can't just say "make the NCAA tournament" as a metric without putting context to what that means. Typically that means a 20 win season for most P5 teams and in leagues that are really strong, you can probably get away with 18 wins. Right now, the Pac 12 doesn't have that luxury, as I'm sure you know.

So what does that mean?

First of all, it means that no other league is dealing with what ours is dealing with right now. The Pac 12 had two teams that were sub 200 NET ranking teams (Cal and WSU) and in Cal's case, they were over 300 most of the year. The closest any other league came to that? The ACC with Wake Forest at 184. So everyone goes into Pac 12 play with a 2-3 game hole playing against teams that are ranked around the same level as a couple of SWAC schools. Knowing this, you've got to adjust your non-conference schedule accordingly, and Utah actually did a decent job with this, but some of the teams they lost to who looked good at the time (BYU, NW) ended up not being very good. If you really want to know where their season turned as far as the tournament goes, it was that loss to Hawaii in the John Wooden Classic. A win over Hawaii puts them against Seton Hall (Q1) and against Fresno/Miami (which both ended up in the same general area s Grand Canyon, so that may end up being a wash).

The point is, because Utah has very little margin for error, they've got to make the most of their opportunities in the non-conference schedule. They didn't do that well enough this year. Part of that has to do with Larry's system (whatever that may be). His teams get better as the season goes on, but it hurts them in non-conference play because it is hard to get contributions from newcomers...and when you have several newcomers in a year it becomes a problem. Larry recently said in an interview with Kragthorpe that he and his staff need to figure out a way to accelerate the learning process so that they can have more success earlier in the season - so he is aware that this is a problem and is working with his staff to fix it.

So what does this all mean for next year's demand of "make the tournament, or else!"

Let's assume that they once again go 11-7 in league play. They've done that now three years in a row. That means they would need to go 9-3 in non-conference play to get to 20 wins...or win in the first round of the Pac 12 tournament...whatever combination gets you to 20.

We know they play the following teams so far:

vs. Minnesota (finished 61 in the NET)
vs. BYU (finished 85 in the NET)
@ Nevada (finished 23 in the NET, but have been absolutely gutted)
@ Missouri (finished 77 in the NET - this one is not for sure, but last year Andy Hill said they 'kicked this one a year down the road')
N - Weber St. (finished 182 in the NET)
N - Kentucky (finished 6 in the NET)
N - Myrtle Beach Invite (Miss St., Baylor, Villanova, Ohio, Coastal Carolina, Middle Tennessee, Tulane) - If I had to guess, I would say their opening opponent is either Coastal Carolina (163) or Ohio (175). Either way, a win there probably puts them in a position to play two of the three big boys in either the championship or third place game). They MUST win their first game in this tournament. Period.

So that leaves 3 more games to schedule, assuming these are all actually going to be played. There are several ways they could go here, but the bottom line is that because Cal will be historically bad and WSU will be close behind, they cannot afford to schedule NW Nazarine.

So when we talk about what the team needs to do to make the tourney next year, it begins with what they do in the non-conference schedule. I would contend that they must win those home games against MIN and BYU, beat a down Nevada on the road, beat Weber, beat their first round MBI opponent. Doing that would get them to 5 wins...and that is a metric we can start to work with from an informed position. If Missouri ends up on the schedule, they should be improved, but beatable. Kentucky will reload, but it will be a young team. Baylor, MSU and Nova will all be tough, for sure, but having them on the schedule will help.

It will be interesting to see what they do with those remaining 3 or 4 games. One thing we know for sure is that they can't be dogs. Krags suggested in his conversation with Larry that they've got some "interesting" things in the works, so we'll see.

The problem that Utah has right now relative to fan interest is a chicken/egg problem. Would winning help bring some fans back to the Huntsman Center? Of course (the students should go anyway...no excuses there). Would it help for people like you who've turned on Larry and decided that he needs to go no matter what? Probably not...because no matter what he does, he'll fall short (See LA Ute and Kyle). That's a fine position to take, but just be honest about it.

One more thing - you mentioned Kuzma's last year. We scheduled Xavier and Butler in the non-conference, and also played UVU that year. The single biggest thing that prevented us from making the tourney that year? Kuzma twisting his ankle and not playing vs. USF in the Diamond Head Classic. A win there puts us against Illinois St. (finished with a top 50 RPI) and then SDSU, verses playing Hawaii (RPI in the 300s) and Stephen F. Austin.

So the bottom line here is, if you want to make the NCAA Tournament, you need to understand what that entails, particularly in the current state of the Pac 12 and who Utah is playing next year. Not knowing these things means you're arguing from a position of ignorance.

Too many words. We're not talking about trade with China. This is a lot simpler.

It seems the crux of what you're saying is that Utah is in an elite league with sub-elite talent (as an aside, this will change for sure; the Pac 12 has a lot going for it, glamorous schools, superb venues, and it will recover with a vengeance, just like the SEC did when it was similarly moribund not so long ago while Kentucky was down). Utah's challenge is not as daunting as Nevada's or Iowa State's. I reject that we can't be, or it's too much to expect us to be Nevada or Iowa State. Every year we get the same excuses from the program's defenders about this glacial progress. But we seem to be on a treadmill.

The solution to all this is simple. The coaches need to win more. They have had good enough players. Krystkowiak's detractors aren't complaining about recruiting. It is what it is. A glass of water will recruit no better or no worse than we're getting. It's a matter of retaining talent, and developing a system, which is what a program that is challenged in recruiting, as Utah has always been since the 1960s and the end of Jim Crow. There are coaches out there that with all the challenges could get this team back to being ranked and in the tournament.

[concerned]

Too many words. We're not talking about trade with China. This is a lot simpler.

It seems the crux of what you're saying is that Utah is in an elite league with sub-elite talent (as an aside, this will change for sure; the Pac 12 has a lot going for it, glamorous schools, superb venues, and it will recover with a vengeance, just like the SEC did when it was similarly moribund not so long ago while Kentucky was down). Utah's challenge is not as daunting as Nevada's or Iowa State's. I reject that we can't be, or it's too much to expect us to be Nevada or Iowa State. Every year we get the same excuses from the program's defenders about this glacial progress. But we seem to be on a treadmill.

The solution to all this is simple. The coaches need to win more. They have had good enough players. Krystkowiak's detractors aren't complaining about recruiting. It is what it is. A glass of water will recruit no better or no worse than we're getting. It's a matter of retaining talent, and developing a system, which is what a program that is challenged in recruiting, as Utah has always been since the 1960s and the end of Jim Crow. There are coaches out there that with all the challenges could get this team back to being ranked and in the tournament.

Agree 1000%. We have too many institutional advantages to be this mediocre for this long.

[SoCalPat]

So that leaves 3 more games to schedule, assuming these are all actually going to be played. There are several ways they could go here, but the bottom line is that because Cal will be historically bad and WSU will be close behind, they cannot afford to schedule NW Nazarine.

Not counting the exhibition, I'll accept two "dreck" games (NET 200-plus). One as a tuneup, one during finals week. But I'm not sure it really matters. Consider what has to happen for us to be a lock NCAA team, or one on the bubble with a strong case for inclusion:

Are we gonna beat Kentucky? (Probably not) Are we gonna go three games at Myrtle Beach without having a significant brain fart and lose a game we shouldn't? (we always have a game in these classics where we look like crap) Will Missouri get rescheduled? (We're gonna have to have ESPN pull some strings on this one) Will Nevada remain a Q1-2 win? (highly unlikely) Will the league finally pull itself out of its 3-year malaise in the non-con and actually establish itself as a 5-6 bid league once conference play starts? (it has to eventually, right?) Will Cal and Wazzu stop being millstones around the neck of the Pac-12? (Cal eventually will pull out of it; Wazzu better hope its new coach is the second coming of Tony Bennett. But their problems will almost certainly extend into 2019-20).

And all that has to be added to a league slate in which we go 11-7 or better and we improve our defense significantly from last year.

I would disagree with the thought that 20 wins will have us on the bubble. Colorado had 21 regular season wins and wasn't within a million miles of anyone's bubble. Now, our non-con next year will be significantly better than CU's was this year, but there's the Cal/Wazzu issue, not just in the regular season, but in Vegas as well, where if you just miss out on a bye, you're gonna get one of those two teams in Vegas.

There are too many variables that need to fall our way, and too much history and/or current events to suggest they probably won't. The first domino to fall will be how Larry fills out the rest of the schedule. If he packs it with dreck, it just means we need more of the variables listed above to fall our way.

I've tried to be patient with Larry and not be one of those fans who insist he be fired long before it's financially prudent or without giving him time to turn things around. The S16-R32 years were a lot of fun, and Larry inherited a much worse hand leading up to those years. Even the NIT Finals run had several signs that things could/would get better, or that missing the NCAA two straight years wasn't that bad.

Now, we're in a mode where every year is Groundhog Day, and we gotta relive Larry's mistakes. Yeah, the Jayce transfer was a huge blow for me. I get transfers and I've never been upset at kids leaving that were nailed to the end of the bench. But Chapman, Daniels, Hendrix and Jayce collectively represent a significant signing class. Losing them is akin to scholarship reductions while we're on probation, and we can all agree Larry would be fired in a nano-second if he got caught doing anything illegal. Why are we content to blame the kids and today's culture while being saddled with on-probation-like results?

I'm ready to move on. I want the kids to play well and enjoy some moments that will last forever. And if we're undefeated after playing Kentucky, I will change my tune quickly. But I would be far from hurt if we lost enough games for us to go in another direction after this season.

[UTEopia]

I’m with SoCal. I will never cheer for a coach to fail or team to lose. However, if the headline tomorrow were that LK was fired. It wouldn’t matter one bit. We are again rebuilding but using the same Contracter that got us in the position to begin with.

[Old Standing ute]

That makes more sense. Leaves Jones in charge of operations & they bring in a Recruiter.

[concerned]

That makes more sense. Leaves Jones in charge of operations & they bring in a Recruiter.

Sounds like he is going to be LK's Dennis Ericksen.

[DrumNFeather]

To Bill's Credit, he actually asked some questions this week of Mark Harlan relative to the basketball program: https://espn700sports.com/sponsored/mark-harlan-discussed-basketball-coaching-staff-football-expectations-gymnastics-in-ncaa-championships/

Be warned - Harlan's phone kept cutting out...hard to tell if that was Larry's fault or not, but probably.

[Old Standing ute]

To Bill's Credit, he actually asked some questions this week of Mark Harlan relative to the basketball program: https://espn700sports.com/sponsored/mark-harlan-discussed-basketball-coaching-staff-football-expectations-gymnastics-in-ncaa-championships/

Be warned - Harlan's phone kept cutting out...hard to tell if that was Larry's fault or not, but probably.

Listening to that interview & the fact that Harlan agreed to add a new position for Daniels seems to mean that you might need to change the name of this thread. Don’t think Larry K is going anywhere in the near future. He is not stupid, so if he was on the hot seat no way he recruits another freshman as the shooter.

Interesting to see if they have moved on from the Headband. Rumor is that the new assistant is bringing a player with him. Larry K seems like Kyle in that it is you are all in or move on.

[sancho]

He is not stupid, so if he was on the hot seat no way he recruits another freshman as the shooter.


I think he always has and always will simply recruit the best players he can get. I don't see how that has much to do with his job security. It's not like he could have grabbed a better player had he known his job depended on it.

[Old Standing ute]

I think if he looks short term he brings in 1 or 2 grad transfers; long term freshmen. I prefer long term, although with this many new players some will not get what they think is enough time & leave, but in 1 or 2 years & beyond they should be very good.

[sancho]

I think if he looks short term he brings in 1 or 2 grad transfers

He tried, but they didn't come.

[sancho]

1119327518584999936

[UtahsMrSports]

He tried, but they didn't come.

I think there's much to be settled on that front.

[Old Standing ute]

Justice Sueing leaving Cal, but has to sit out.

Charlie Moore who left Cal for Kansas is on the move again, also has to sit out.

[SoCalPat]

Listening to that interview & the fact that Harlan agreed to add a new position for Daniels seems to mean that you might need to change the name of this thread. Don’t think Larry K is going anywhere in the near future. He is not stupid, so if he was on the hot seat no way he recruits another freshman as the shooter.

Interesting to see if they have moved on from the Headband. Rumor is that the new assistant is bringing a player with him. Larry K seems like Kyle in that it is you are all in or move on.

ThIs is a horrible take. We’re in the late signing period and we will take who we can get. By this logic, Larry would view his own job security more precariously by bringing in Justin Bibbins 2.0 than he would by bringing in a true. And that makes zero sense.

He’s taking players he think will make us better now. There’s an expectation that they’ll make us better later in their careers than at the start, but we went 17-14 last year. With so many newcomers coming in, several of them will have to contribute in a big way next year for Larry to be on solid ground entering the final three years of his deal.

[Old Standing ute]

Could be, but even though fans may think Larry is on the hot seat, not sure that is same for the people who could replace him.
Harlan would not agree to pay Donnie Daniels to be Larry’s assistant, which is in addition to all the other coaches, if he thought this would be for 1 year, & doubt Daniels would come here thinking it is a 1 year spot.
He obviously wants to win next year, he would bring in Bibbins 2.0–over another freshman. That would mean more wins in the short term; Wentzel is skinner than Both, so hope he makes us better now rather than down the road, but he won’t be a starter day 1, like a grad transfer should be. So if he is desperate hang onto that scholarship.

I guess we will see who gets the Headband’s scholarship.

And the elephant in the room is that there are no big donors who are hard core BB fans who would fund the buyout. Waiting for someone to name that person, since I haven’t seen him/her at every game.?

Like him or not, Larry is not going anywhere until his contract runs out.

[sancho]

Like him or not, Larry is not going anywhere until his contract runs out.

This is not true. Larry is not going anywhere right now, but he certainly won't be given time until his contract runs out. If we flop next season, he's gone. If we are just okay but not promising, he may be gone. If he has us in the tournament, he probably gets an extension.

[Old Standing ute]

I think we will be OK & promising, but not in the tournament.

[sancho]

I think we will be OK & promising, but not in the tournament.

I think that will be enough for Larry, but I'm not as confident as you in that.

[SeattleUte]

Could be, but even though fans may think Larry is on the hot seat, not sure that is same for the people who could replace him.
Harlan would not agree to pay Donnie Daniels to be Larry’s assistant, which is in addition to all the other coaches, if he thought this would be for 1 year, & doubt Daniels would come here thinking it is a 1 year spot.
He obviously wants to win next year, he would bring in Bibbins 2.0–over another freshman. That would mean more wins in the short term; Wentzel is skinner than Both, so hope he makes us better now rather than down the road, but he won’t be a starter day 1, like a grad transfer should be. So if he is desperate hang onto that scholarship.

I guess we will see who gets the Headband’s scholarship.

And the elephant in the room is that there are no big donors who are hard core BB fans who would fund the buyout. Waiting for someone to name that person, since I haven’t seen him/her at every game.?

Like him or not, Larry is not going anywhere until his contract runs out.

Mendacity

https://youtu.be/GiiE-h9ZYag

[Old Standing ute]

Nice.

Always wanted to be compared to Paul Newman.

Can you sing Ghost Riders in the Sky like Burl?

[Old Standing ute]

I think that will be enough for Larry, but I'm not as confident as you in that.

I have seen Lahat in scrimmages.

[UTEopia]

Nice.

Always wanted to be compared to Paul Newman.

Can you sing Ghost Riders in the Sky like Burl?

I always wanted to be Paul Newman.

[sancho]

1-2-3 Go!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9KBOhPXhds

[SeattleUte]

Nice.

Always wanted to be compared to Paul Newman.

Can you sing Ghost Riders in the Sky like Burl?

Hes not referring to Paul Newman as being mendacious.

[concerned]

Isn't Uteopia Paul Newman?

[LA Ute]

Isn't Uteopia Paul Newman?

He's Tom Selleck.

[Old Standing ute]

Hes not referring to Paul Newman as being mendacious.

I was always more of a fan of Tennessee Tuxedo, rather than Tennessee Williams.

[LA Ute]

I was always more of a fan of Tennessee Tuxedo, rather than Tennessee Williams.

Tennessee Ernie Ford for me.

[SoCalPat]

Could be, but even though fans may think Larry is on the hot seat, not sure that is same for the people who could replace him.
Harlan would not agree to pay Donnie Daniels to be Larry’s assistant, which is in addition to all the other coaches, if he thought this would be for 1 year, & doubt Daniels would come here thinking it is a 1 year spot.
He obviously wants to win next year, he would bring in Bibbins 2.0–over another freshman. That would mean more wins in the short term; Wentzel is skinner than Both, so hope he makes us better now rather than down the road, but he won’t be a starter day 1, like a grad transfer should be. So if he is desperate hang onto that scholarship.

I guess we will see who gets the Headband’s scholarship.

And the elephant in the room is that there are no big donors who are hard core BB fans who would fund the buyout. Waiting for someone to name that person, since I haven’t seen him/her at every game.?

Like him or not, Larry is not going anywhere until his contract runs out.

Donnie is an assistant that would be retained by 100 percent of all HCs in the country. The idea that his hiring is some sort of signal that Larry's on solid ground here is silly.

Harlan can follow Larry out the door if he lets him coach as a lame duck in the final year of his contract. Good luck recruiting under that scenario.

You're not privy to any list of donors any more than I am, so your .02 here really doesn't mean anything. But I do know we fired Ray Giacoletti with four years left on his deal and the athletic department isn't saddled with debt. Firing Larry with 3 years to go on his deal and swallowing $9M while hardly ideal, is hardly an insurmountable expense.

[SoCalPat]

This is not true. Larry is not going anywhere right now, but he certainly won't be given time until his contract runs out. If we flop next season, he's gone. If we are just okay but not promising, he may be gone. If he has us in the tournament, he probably gets an extension.

Short of a Final Four berth, he gets nothing. Harlan ain't gonna make the mistake Hill did and add years/dollars to a contract we can't get out of.

[SeattleUte]

Donnie is an assistant that would be retained by 100 percent of all HCs in the country. The idea that his hiring is some sort of signal that Larry's on solid ground here is silly.

Harlan can follow Larry out the door if he lets him coach as a lame duck in the final year of his contract. Good luck recruiting under that scenario.

You're not privy to any list of donors any more than I am, so your .02 here really doesn't mean anything. But I do know we fired Ray Giacoletti with four years left on his deal and the athletic department isn't saddled with debt. Firing Larry with 3 years to go on his deal and swallowing $9M while hardly ideal, is hardly an insurmountable expense.

I'm an eternal optimist. I'm remembering when we went 14-14 the year after Josh Grant's last team hadn't quite lived up to expectations as he was plagued by injuries. We lost to BYU in the WAC tournament by over 30. We had a promising freshman named Keith Van Horn, but he was homesick and reeling because his dad had just died unexpectedly. We had coming in a bunch of freshman who sparked some optimism, but were rejects of the likes of UCLA. Expectations weren't high....

[UtahsMrSports]

Short of a Final Four berth, he gets nothing. Harlan ain't gonna make the mistake Hill did and add years/dollars to a contract we can't get out of.

I have been pointing this out as well, though it gets lost among all the paid shilling I do around here. If Larry is still around come Spring 2022, he will have had to have done enough to warrant an extension at the same or higher dollar amount (i suppose he could agree to be extended at a lower level just to have a job). Making the tourney, IMO, wont be enough, even two appearances. We need to see a steady upward trend these next few years.

[UTEopia]

I'm an eternal optimist. I'm remembering when we went 14-14 the year after Josh Grant's last team hadn't quite lived up to expectations as he was plagued by injuries. We lost to BYU in the WAC tournament by over 30. We had a promising freshman named Keith Van Horn, but he was homesick and reeling because his dad had just died unexpectedly. We had coming in a bunch of freshman who sparked some optimism, but were rejects of the likes of UCLA. Expectations weren't high....

I went to that game at the Delta Center. Depressing. Did big Rick go out and get Brandon Jessie right after that? Was it the following year the Utes beat Michigan State in Tucson to advance to the Sweet 16 and lose to Vegas?

[SeattleUte]

I went to that game at the Delta Center. Depressing. Did big Rick go out and get Brandon Jessie right after that? Was it the following year the Utes beat Michigan State in Tucson to advance to the Sweet 16 and lose to Vegas?

That was with Josh Grant two or three years before. The following year they went to the second round and were upset by Mississippi State--after a terrific season winning the WAC and WAC tournament, and finishing highly ranked. I remember what Majerus said after the MS game, "My guys need to eat more barbecue."

The following year it was Sweet 16, then Elite 8, then Final Two in succession (the last one sans Van Horn). The key was keeping that early young team together and building on it.

[UTEopia]

That was with Josh Grant two or three years before. The following year they went to the second round and were upset by Mississippi State--after a terrific season winning the WAC and WAC tournament, and finishing highly ranked. I remember what Majerus said after the MS game, "My guys need to eat more barbecue."

The following year it was Sweet 16, then Elite 8, then Final Two in succession (the last one sans Van Horn). The key was keeping that early young team together and building on it.

Thanks for clearing that up. That game against Michigan St. in Tucson was one of the best college games I remember watching. Josh Grant was excellent and Michigan State had a guy (can't remember name) who went on to have a solid NBA career and is now a commentator who was also excellent. It is also when I start to hate hearing Re -bels, Re -bels chanted by 60 year old guys and women with gold chains around their necks.

[sancho]

Thanks for clearing that up. That game against Michigan St. in Tucson was one of the best college games I remember watching. Josh Grant was excellent and Michigan State had a guy (can't remember name) who went on to have a solid NBA career and is now a commentator who was also excellent. It is also when I start to hate hearing Re -bels, Re -bels chanted by 60 year old guys and women with gold chains around their necks.

Steve Smith. I snuck into the back room at my Grandparents' house during an extended family dinner to watch that game.

[SoCalPat]

I went to that game at the Delta Center. Depressing. Did big Rick go out and get Brandon Jessie right after that? Was it the following year the Utes beat Michigan State in Tucson to advance to the Sweet 16 and lose to Vegas?

Rick didn't just get Brandon Jessie, he landed the greatest recruiting class in Utah history -- Jessie, Andre, Alex, Doleac and Hansen.

[SeattleUte]

Rick didn't just get Brandon Jessie, he landed the greatest recruiting class in Utah history -- Jessie, Andre, Alex, Doleac and Hansen.

I think he didn't get Andre and Hansen until the year after. The next year was just Jessie and Doliac.

[SeattleUte]

We received a good portend when the Utes beat Knight's Indiana team in Hawaii, and new recruit Jesse had a very big game.

[SeattleUte]

The thing is, none of these players were recognized as big recruits when they came. Miller didn't academically qualify as a freshman and started basketball his senior HS season after years of football. Jessie was a JUCO, and the elite programs usually are not interested in them. I don't think anybody recruited Hansen. Doleac's only other DI offer was Oregon (he is from Portland), but Oregon had no tradition at all then. We got him because Majerus saw him at a camp shortly after he started playing basketball in 9th grade and offered him. His father accepted and they kept their word. Only Van Horn was somewhat of a blue chipper. His best offer other than Utah was Arizona State.

Utah's really only had two blue chip recruits in the sense that they played in a US HS and were watched and recruited by all the elite programs from the time they were at least sophomores in HS--Danny Vranes and Britton Johnson. By the time Tom Chambers was a senior in Boulder people were getting excited about him. He came to Utah because Vranes did. Vranes/Chambers/Bankowski may be Utah's best recruiting class on paper yet.

Utah has always won with player development. It matters.

[LA Ute]

The thing is, none of these players were recognized as big recruits when they came. Miller didn't academically qualify as a freshman and started basketball his senior HS season after years of football. Jessie was a JUCO, and the elite programs usually are not interested in them. I don't think anybody recruited Hansen.

The Naval Academy offered him. He was that kind of a student.


Only Van Horn was somewhat of a blue chipper. His best offer other than Utah was Arizona State.

Interesting anecdote: Majerus told me once that Jim Harrick, then UCLA's coach, should have been fired for missing Van Horn, who played in UCLA's back yard. To Big Rick's eye Van Horn's potential was obvious.


Vranes/Chambers/Bankowski may be Utah's best recruiting class on paper yet.

Banko was a crowd favorite. I remember that on Senior Night (my first date with my wife) he told the fans, "I'm gonna miss youse."

[sancho]

Utah's really only had two blue chip recruits in the sense that they played in a US HS and were watched and recruited by all the elite programs from the time they were at least sophomores in HS--Danny Vranes and Britton Johnson. By the time Tom Chambers was a senior in Boulder people were getting excited about him. He came to Utah because Vranes did. Vranes/Chambers/Bankowski may be Utah's best recruiting class on paper yet.


You could maybe add Brekkot Chapman to that list. He was recruited fairly heavily. I think our last two recruiting classes have been two of the highest ranked ever, right? I wonder where the Vranes/Chambers/Banko class would have ranked had the rankings existed. I guess RunDMC was Majerus' highest ranked class?

[UTEopia]

Banko was a crowd favorite. I remember that on Senior Night (my first date with my wife) he told the fans, "I'm gonna miss youse."

Bankowski was a mean SOB. I was friends with Juddy and when he was with the Celtics he bought his home up above Skyline where my parents lived. I would get invited from time-to-time to join him in pickup games at HPER with the Vranes, Chambers, Bankowski group during the off-season. Even in these games Bankowski would put an elbow into your solar plexus when he crossed the key. I caught a few of those.

[SeattleUte]

You could maybe add Brekkot Chapman to that list. He was recruited fairly heavily. I think our last two recruiting classes have been two of the highest ranked ever, right? I wonder where the Vranes/Chambers/Banko class would have ranked had the rankings existed. I guess RunDMC was Majerus' highest ranked class?

Vranes was a Parade All-American and Britton was a McDonald's All-American. First Team. That's a different stratum than anything else we've recruited. Brekkot was ranked lower than Yeoli Childs.

[sancho]

Brekkot was ranked lower than Yeoli Childs.

Yet Brekkot was somehow 1,000 times more coveted than Childs. Brekkot had many Pac-12 offers. Childs had none.

But your main point holds - Brekkot was not a McDonald's all-American.

Vranes is not part of the modern era of basketball (as always, modern era is defined to be the past 25 years). Britton only has a few more years left before he is no longer part of the modern era. When that happens, Utah will have 0 recruiting All-Americans in the modern era.

[sancho]

This conversation made me go to the Utah Mr. Basketball page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Mr._Basketball

Brekkot wasn't even Mr. Basketball. It's a fun list of names. Two of them have been drafted, a few others have played for a season or two in the NBA. Seems like most of them (3/4?) had meaningful college careers. How many were McDonald's All-Americans? Britton and Frank Jackson. Garner Meads? Shawn Bradley?

[Scratch]

Brekkot was ranked lower than Yeoli Childs.

I'm pretty sure that's just not true. What recruiting service had Childs ranked ahead of Brekkott?

[LA Ute]

I'm pretty sure that's just not true. What recruiting service had Childs ranked ahead of Brekkott?

247 had Brekkott ranked #56:

https://247sports.com/player/brekkott-chapman-24053/

Scout had him #49:

http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/173156/brekkott-chapman

[Scratch]

247 had Brekkott ranked #56:

https://247sports.com/player/brekkott-chapman-24053/

Scout had him #49:

http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/173156/brekkott-chapman

Yep. Pretty sure ESPN had Yoeli the highest, but still behind Brekkott, I think.

[LA Ute]

Yep. Pretty sure ESPN had Yoeli the highest, but still behind Brekkott, I think.

They had him 56th. He had offers from ASU, Idaho State and Utah State, according to this link:

http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/189039/yoeli-childs

So if Larry missed him so did everyone else.

[concerned]

This conversation made me go to the Utah Mr. Basketball page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Mr._Basketball

Brekkot wasn't even Mr. Basketball. It's a fun list of names. Two of them have been drafted, a few others have played for a season or two in the NBA. Seems like most of them (3/4?) had meaningful college careers. How many were McDonald's All-Americans? Britton and Frank Jackson. Garner Meads? Shawn Bradley?

Vranes was a McDonalds AA, IIRC.

[SeattleUte]

Vranes was a McDonalds AA, IIRC.

I thought so. But wasn’t sure they had that then. He was a Parade All-American, which at that time was as big a deal as McDonald’s.

[concerned]

I thought so. But wasn’t sure they had that then. He was a Parade All-American, which at that time was as big a deal as McDonald’s.

You got me curious so I just looked it up. Vranes was on the very 1st team. Gene Banks was the MVP. Magic Johnson also on the team. Ray Tolbert, Jeff ruland, Jeff lamp, Al Wood and others. I think you are right about him being a parade All-American too. I think he was both

[LA Ute]

You got me curious so I just looked it up. Vranes was on the very 1st team. Gene Banks was the MVP. Magic Johnson also on the team. Ray Tolbert, Jeff ruland, Jeff lamp, Al Wood and others. I think you are right about him being a parade All-American too. I think he was both

Danny also made the US Olympic team, although the 1980 team didn’t play because of the US boycott. I don’t think any other Utah basketball player has been on an Olympic team, so that sets him apart from everyone else right there. He was such a pleasure to watch.

[sancho]

I don’t think any other Utah basketball player has been on an Olympic team, so that sets him apart from everyone else right there.

Bogut has. Maybe Phil Dixon? Looks like Hanno played for the Finnish national team but never got to play in an Olympics. Ma Jian played in the 1992 olympics.

[LA Ute]

Bogut has. Maybe Phil Dixon? Looks like Hanno played for the Finnish national team but never got to play in an Olympics. Ma Jian played in the 1992 olympics.

Fair enough. I meant the US Olympic team. I’m a typical jingoistic American, I guess.

[SeattleUte]

Fair enough. I meant the US Olympic team. I’m a typical jingoistic American, I guess.

Making the US Olympic team is a lot bigger achievement than any other Olympic team. It’s a fact, not Jingoistic to say so, silly.

[concerned]

Making the US Olympic team is a lot bigger achievement than any other Olympic team. It’s a fact, not Jingoistic to say so, silly.

I looked that up too:

The 1980 U.S. team, which featured a number of future NBA players, was the youngest American national team ever assembled. This team featured: Mark Aguirre (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Aguirre), Rolando Blackman (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolando_Blackman), Sam Bowie (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Bowie), Michael Brooks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Brooks_(basketball)), Bill Hanzlik (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Hanzlik), Alton Lister (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alton_Lister), Rodney McCray (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodney_McCray_(basketball)), Isiah Thomas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isiah_Thomas), Darnell Valentine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darnell_Valentine), Danny Vranes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danny_Vranes), Buck Williams (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buck_Williams) and Al Wood (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Wood). Unable to compete in the Olympics due to the boycott, it instead participated in the "Gold Medal Series (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gold_Medal_Series&action=edit&redlink=1)", a series of games against NBA all-star teams in various U.S. cities, recording a 5–1 record.[18] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_men%27s_national_basketball_team#cit e_note-Usabasketball.com-18) It was coached by Dave Gavitt (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Gavitt).


Good memory, LA Ute. (Only Trump could remember something like that, because he has an outstanding, world class memory except as to what was said in meetings about Russia or Mueller.)

[LA Ute]

I looked that up too:

The 1980 U.S. team, which featured a number of future NBA players, was the youngest American national team ever assembled. This team featured: Mark Aguirre (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Aguirre), Rolando Blackman (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolando_Blackman), Sam Bowie (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Bowie), Michael Brooks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Brooks_(basketball)), Bill Hanzlik (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Hanzlik), Alton Lister (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alton_Lister), Rodney McCray (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodney_McCray_(basketball)), Isiah Thomas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isiah_Thomas), Darnell Valentine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darnell_Valentine), Danny Vranes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danny_Vranes), Buck Williams (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buck_Williams) and Al Wood (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Wood). Unable to compete in the Olympics due to the boycott, it instead participated in the "Gold Medal Series (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gold_Medal_Series&action=edit&redlink=1)", a series of games against NBA all-star teams in various U.S. cities, recording a 5–1 record.[18] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_men%27s_national_basketball_team#cit e_note-Usabasketball.com-18) It was coached by Dave Gavitt (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Gavitt).


Good memory, LA Ute. (Only Trump could remember something like that, because he has an outstanding, world class memory except as to what was said in meetings about Russia or Mueller.)

Also because the accomplishment was yuge.

[concerned]

Also because the accomplishment was yuge.

If only Vranes could have developed a mid range jump shot.

[U-Ute]

I have seen Lahat in scrimmages.

You and I seem to judge players in a very similar manner, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here. So just know that you're really getting my hopes up here.

[LA Ute]

You and I seem to judge players in a very similar manner, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here. So just know that you're really getting my hopes up here.

OSU, don’t disappoint U-Ute. You wouldn’t like him when he’s disappointed.

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

I hadn’t seen this article posted yet. Despite the headline, these comments from Larry do not inspire confidence about next year.

For example:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190501/7a7b2aec9c6efc86220fc10d91bf5f5a.jpg

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900068155/heres-why-utes-larry-krystkowiak-is-confident-utah-can-return-to-ncaa-tourney-next-season.html

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SoCalPat]

I think he didn't get Andre and Hansen until the year after. The next year was just Jessie and Doliac.

Negative. Hansen was a true freshman on the 1994-95 team (remember, his last game was the national title loss to UK, in 1998), and Andre sat out because he was Prop 48. Alex played a year before leaving on his mission, missed the 1996 and 1997 seasons, and was a sophomore on the title-game team.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/utah/1995.html

Ben Melmeth was another freshman on this team, but he was a redshirt freshman and sat out the 14-14 season the year before.

[U-Ute]

I seem to remember that it was Andre and Jessie that got in trouble at Cottonwood Mall.

Or was it Andre and the dope smoker... (something Wright? - not Delon)

[concerned]

I seem to remember that it was Andre and Jessie that got in trouble at Cottonwood Mall.

Or was it Andre and the dope smoker... (something Wright? - not Delon)

Definitely Brandon Jessie.

[SoCalPat]

I seem to remember that it was Andre and Jessie that got in trouble at Cottonwood Mall.

Or was it Andre and the dope smoker... (something Wright? - not Delon)

The other Wright you're thinking of was Darroll Wright, who averaged 11.4 PPG on 11.8 shots per game (Yikes!) in the non-con before he left the team or was kicked off, can't remember the specifics of that.

Jessie and Andre were nailed in a shoplifiting incident that cost them the season opener against Kansas in the 1996-97 season.

[Applejack]

The other Wright you're thinking of was Darroll Wright, who averaged 11.4 PPG on 11.8 shots per game (Yikes!) in the non-con before he left the team or was kicked off, can't remember the specifics of that.

Jessie and Andre were nailed in a shoplifiting incident that cost them the season opener against Kansas in the 1996-97 season.

I loved Darroll Wright. He used to play ball at the outdoor courts near the old (now razed) dorms. He and Silas Mills would come out and school us, a bunch of 15 year old punk kids. But he was extremely nice in doing so.

[Mormon Red Death]

Danny also made the US Olympic team, although the 1980 team didn’t play because of the US boycott. I don’t think any other Utah basketball player has been on an Olympic team, so that sets him apart from everyone else right there. He was such a pleasure to watch.

Bogut has been on Australian national team.

[SeattleUte]

Does this reasoning apply to Krystkowiak? From Jon Wilner yesterday: "USC is hemorrhaging cash on game day. Question isn't whether Trojans can afford to fire Clay Helton. It's whether they can afford to keep him."