Reversing the Oregon Trail - Ducks & Beavs trek to SLC

[Ma'ake]

I haven't seen the Beavs play, yet, but Stanford @ Oregon last night was worthy of attention.

Oregon looks much like they did last year, but seem a bit small up front. Definitely a game Poeltl can and needs to assert himself in.

Glad these two are at home.

[Old Standing ute]

We get these 2---which will not be easy, & we are back in the race.

AZ getting swept in LA made league race very interesting.

Beavs might be the tougher test----Trinkle's kid playing well, especially for a freshman.

[U-Ute]

I've seen only bits and pieces, but Oregon seems like a poor man's Miami, which worries me.


I don't think they have the size Miami did do they? I admit I haven't looked at Oregon's roster this year yet.

[UtahsMrSports]

Oregon's center is 6'10 and 190 pounds but averages more than 4 blocks a game. That is a lot of length and athleticism, but man he will have his hands full with Poeltl.

Oregon State has a lot of familiar faces. Old Standing Ute mentioned Tres Tinkle. I am convinced hed be a Ute if his pops had stayed at Montana. Gary Payton Jr is a heck of a player too. We will also see familiar faces in Kerry Rupp (top assistant) and Noah Togiai, who has appeared in a couple of games this year in garbage time.

[LA Ute]

PhilCullen's e-mail this morning:

The Oregon Ducks come into Salt Lake City witha record of 13-3 and hold a #10 ranking nationally in the RPI. ThisOregon team is a typical Dana Altman team that on paper may be undersized butthey play extremely physical, uptempo and have a number of different guys whocan put the ball on the floor and score at a high rate.

Last year they had one primary scorer but this year they are relying on theirdepth and spreading the scoring out a bit more. This year they are led by#24 Dillon Brooks who is a do everything player averaging 15.2 ppg and 6.5rpg. At 6'6" and 225 lbs, Brooks is a tough match up. He isable to take bigger defenders and drive them while posting up smaller players.

Behind Brooks in scoring is freshman #5 Tyler Dorsey. Dorsey is averaging14.6 ppg and is Oregon's best 3 pt shooter making 47% of his attempts. Alongside Brooks and Dorsey are big men #23 Elgin Cook and #25 Chris Boucherwho are both averaging around 12 ppg and combine for over 13 rpg. Cook ismore of a driving big where Boucher is a long athletic shooter on theperimeter.

Oregon will play fast and look to drive the ball the rim on everpossession. There attack will come from bigs and smalls alike so everyonemust be able to guard the bounce this game. Defensively they will look topick up the pressure playing a match up zone that will extend into the fullcourt. They will switch alot of like player ball screens. To win wemust take care of the basketball, guard the dribble and limit them to oneshot. Click here (http://email.jumpforwardemail.com/wf/click?upn=4Gl3jowIu-2FT1gqArk0Z7Sow06NBU-2F8Vl2xc-2B1k-2B7QoZmGKnCGfdQnv-2FzTXf6rkLEYB1kjCrVpeAYSRt-2BNfrMrdb0twQmVtsb53k5xzPw1LFTZRXbw4tnMGX-2FFCgZuKaj5s2iLoRCTHTSZpsS1JnpVgyMdlO5Ly8XFrQZT-2BTRO5iGvRlmsY1-2B6geajv3Fehxb8ixquwHlX8c2kBYWM5zHbdb38z3b4ZwZmk6E Bg7VWoY-3D_JpavFYnoLTX47CpO-2FXOabzjYqG6h2ymjArNh36QzXJZDcMBAuxEsJTakaHJarCcX4 TFRsThRaQTBWsAqckK11Rj-2F2KnHbVWjNhNKZc-2BXVcZtcr3okZObuc11BdPOLa2-2FemL-2FN2Rk6V0zyxh54sKS38h5GBdzo5yWcOi0fRkwGVEQBCvfFIYG PO-2BYc4EJjG7qbbz7ypIhSyQdsD9Q-2BmcFh1gRMzUTtITXQicUqnuhvUjwWtdPfBLCHdXtwgT6KLO0H YLTDC2TT416h9k2mE7ECGM1lZRC7uJKu8ia-2Fu2puLs-3D) to viewOregon's stats.


Weare back in the Huntsman Center tomorrow at 8:00 pm. Be sure to wearWHITE for our Whiteout game!

[DrumNFeather]

Well, another interesting start.

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[DrumNFeather]

In the bonus with 13 min to go. We'll need to help ourselves at the line.

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[DrumNFeather]

We can't seem to get over the top so far. Oregon is really aggressive, but not out of control. Blocking our soft layups left and right.

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[Mormon Red Death]

Free throws....Damm free throws

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[DrumNFeather]

Terrible first half moderately saved with a 3 at the end.

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[LA Ute]

Wow. Been in a meeting, just saw the score. At home??


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[DrumNFeather]

Wow. Been in a meeting, just saw the score. At home??


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11 players with 2 fouls between the two teams.

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[DrumNFeather]

Wow. Been in a meeting, just saw the score. At home??


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Taylor showed up. Jakob showed up at the line. The rest of the squad...

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[Diehard Ute]

This is entirely mental. Missed free throws. Missed layups. Missed assignments on the boards.

This team does not have good player leadership.


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[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

This is entirely mental. Missed free throws. Missed layups. Missed assignments on the boards.

This team does not have good player leadership.


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Some mental, Boucher dominated Poeltel and definitely owned him mentally all night. Mostly though just like when you guys got us in football one team just kicked the other teams ass in every facet of the game.

I love Dana Altman. I hope that T on Bell didn't make this series to intense for Krysko ;)

[Old Standing ute]

That was horrible. Too many athletes on the Ducks. Plus the Ducks are very physical, foul on most every play. They get by because of their shot blocking reputation, but they get away with murder. Not that it mattered because Utes could not hit FTs.
Plus our seniors again did not do much---Loveridge is a 1 trick pony; can not dribble with his left hand. Tucker is just not good enough & Taylor is too small.

On a positive note, Collete & the new point guard from SMU were both in sweats & sitting behind the bench. They were in huddles etc. Collete looks 6'10" & solid. Point guard about the same size as I. Wright. And speaking of which I. Wright again stunk it up until garbage time. He & Brekkott need to man up. They really have not progressed much---Kuzma has although his problem is mental--he still does dumb things.

And there was a Gabe Bealer sighting---but not much before garbage time. And he did not handle the ball.

Ogbe still not dressed---maybe he is out for the year & gets a medical +1?

[Old Standing ute]

Poeltl sprainded his ankle in practice Tuesday. So that more than Boucher was probably in his head.

You can have Dana Altman---would have been a perfect coach for the JailBlazers era.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

Poeltl sprainded his ankle in practice Tuesday. So that more than Boucher was probably in his head.

You can have Dana Altman---would have been a perfect coach for the JailBlazers era.

Im glad for you that your guy had an good excuse for getting owned. What reason made it so nobody could guard Brooks? Other than Oregon fouling every possession?

Altman is dramatically more successful than Krysko by any metric. Not sure what the dumb Blazers have to do with it.

[Utebiquitous]

Old Standing,
Husky's got us - regardless of excuses, Poeltl was owned tonight. I agree with you, Oregon gets away with murder but the U's problem is systemic and I'm beginning to question the coaches/coaching as a result. This team does not defend or rebound. The one way out I'll give them is that perhaps the system is part of the problem. Switching everything is just killing them. There were far too many possessions tonight where Oregon took a shot and missed with Jakob 15 feet away from the basket. Given how poorly we rebound, he simply cannot be away from the hoop. Brooks was terrific. I hate his smugness but it's our job to wipe the grin off of his face and it just kept getting bigger. He has a lot of fun playing the game. There's a lot of joy on that Oregon team right now and very little on the U's.

I agree with you comments on Jordan. I'll add once again how disappointing it is to see him unable to defend and rebound. Very similar body type to Brooks but what a difference in effort and enthusiasm. Kuzma didn't look like he belonged out there tonight. Very interesting to see how quickly we hung our heads after cutting the lead to six in just a couple of minutes of the second half. A couple of calls went against us, we missed a few gimmies (unbelievable the lack of ability of Poeltl, Kuzma, Chapman and Reyes to finish) and we basically quit. No leadership on the team tonight. Larry had given up on them by the 12-minute mark. That angers me as much as the play.

So much for a cooling off period guys. I've gained no perspective from waiting a couple of hours to post something. I haven't felt this way about a U game since the Boylen era. This team can be much better than what we saw tonight. They'll have to be just to finish .500.

[mUUser]

Gotta wonder if the recent distractions will affect the program from here out. Utah has taken a beating in the media and it doesn't go unnoticed by the players.....even the coaches can be affected. Haven't seen a Utah team in awhile that had so little fight in it.

[DrumNFeather]

Said at the end of last year that in order to be a tournament team, we would need either Chapman, Kuzma, or Wright to make a big leap. We didn't get it, so we're not a tournament team. It's sad to be lousy again after being so good a year ago.

I think it's waaaaaaayyyyyyy to early to worry about the tournament. Short of going sub .500 in league play, we're going to have a solid RPI/SOS all season long and will probably make it. Listening to a national CBB writer on the local station here in DC, even he said that the Pac 12 is the deepest, most compelling league in college basketball. We're going to get a good number of teams in, and the Utes are still very much in that discussion.

[DrumNFeather]

This game reminded me a little bit of the old saying "Styles make fights." Last night our stall ball slow down pace didn't work at all and we weren't able to dictate a thing. As we've all said a gazillion times, that system works fine with a lead, but when you are trailing to a team that actually knows how to drive to the hoop and can get its own shot off, you're in trouble. Even down 14, 17, 19, we're throwing it around the ring and watching the clock just bleed away and still, nobody had the confidence to shoot. That's a bit frustrating. Oregon just ran us off the court...and I'm starting to wonder if Dana Altman is the RichRod for Utah basketball, maybe we just can't solve that guy.

I don't think there's any question that all the distractions compounded and caught up to us last night, and with a really good Oregon team coming in, we couldn't afford to come out flat.

Here's hoping for a turnaround vs. the Beavers.

[LA Ute]

I have had a very tough week and wasn't able even to pay any attention to the game. Looks like that was a blessing. The Utes are having an unexpectedly bad stretch -- understatement! -- and it will be interesting to see if the coaches and players can right the ship. I think the BYU game cancellation was an unforced error that probably did a lot of subtle damage by creating an unexpected and huge distraction.

Go Utes. Turn this thing around.


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[concerned]

We had Jerry Seinfeld tickets last night. Originally bummed it was the same night as the Oregon game. Now very glad it was.

[Rocker Ute]

I couldn't go to the game last night, in fact I've missed more games this year than maybe the past 10 years combined. So I can't say anything authoritatively other than don't forget that Larry's teams, with the exception of last year, started slow and improved as the year went on. I'm hoping we see that this year.

Loveridge is an enigma to me, I can't figure out the attitude that causes him to disappear. I was banking on him having a breakout year this year.


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[UtahsMrSports]

We gotta win the next two. Our resume, right now, is easily good enough to be in the tournament, not even a bubble team. But the trend is not good. We won't stay there for long unless we find a way to fight harder for these wins.

[SoCalPat]

Poeltl sprainded his ankle in practice Tuesday. So that more than Boucher was probably in his head.

You can have Dana Altman---would have been a perfect coach for the JailBlazers era.

Utterly ridiculous statement. Altman is probably the best coach in the league. Oregon has overachieved just about every year on his watch.

[DrumNFeather]

We gotta win the next two. Our resume, right now, is easily good enough to be in the tournament, not even a bubble team. But the trend is not good. We won't stay there for long unless we find a way to fight harder for these wins.

It's definitely an important stretch. We need to be one of those teams that plays significantly better at home to create an advantage, and obviously based on last night we didn't do that. LA was right about Stanford, that loss will come back to haunt us for sure...we just need to find a road win that nobody else will get. Maybe that's Washington.

[SoCalPat]

I couldn't go to the game last night, in fact I've missed more games this year than maybe the past 10 years combined. So I can't say anything authoritatively other than don't forget that Larry's teams, with the exception of last year, started slow and improved as the year went on. I'm hoping we see that this year.

Loveridge is an enigma to me, I can't figure out the attitude that causes him to disappear. I was banking on him having a breakout year this year.


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We needed Jordan when we got him. His signing represented far more than just getting the top in-state player, given where we were at the time.

I know you hate Boylen and I'm not going to attempt to change your views on him. But I have no problem acknowledging why he wasn't as high on Jordan as many in his profession. He has no left hand. He has no lateral quickness. He was never tested in HS, and his weaknesses could never be exploited long-term in AAU competition, where there's little to no scouting because there's little to nothing at stake at the team level.

Statistically, he peaked as a sophomore, and usage (34.4 MPG) had a ton to do with that. On the flip side, the program needed him to improve sooner rather than later, and he's done that. You can only ask so much from players, and we cannot ask any more from Jordan (although his inability to develop his left hand is inexcusable). Ultimately, coming out of HS, you could see Jordan's ceiling was only so high, and that he would probably get there sooner rather than later.

If Loveridge's physical and mental twin came out of a Utah HS this year, I think the coaching staff would object strongly to anyone saying we should pursue him.

[DrumNFeather]

We needed Jordan when we got him. His signing represented far more than just getting the top in-state player, given where we were at the time.

I know you hate Boylen and I'm not going to attempt to change your views on him. But I have no problem acknowledging why he wasn't as high on Jordan as many in his profession. He has no left hand. He has no lateral quickness. He was never tested in HS, and his weaknesses could never be exploited long-term in AAU competition, where there's little to no scouting because there's little to nothing at stake at the team level.

Statistically, he peaked as a sophomore, and usage (34.4 MPG) had a ton to do with that. On the flip side, the program needed him to improve sooner rather than later, and he's done that. You can only ask so much from players, and we cannot ask any more from Jordan (although his inability to develop his left hand is inexcusable). Ultimately, coming out of HS, you could see Jordan's ceiling was only so high, and that he would probably get there sooner rather than later.

If Loveridge's physical and mental twin came out of a Utah HS this year, I think the coaching staff would object strongly to anyone saying we should pursue him.

Spot on assessment of Loveridge, though it's interesting, in the rare moments where he decides to be aggressive, he at least seems to get to the line (and by rare I mean less than 5 times this year, probably). I can't remember who it was, but several years ago we had a guy and the key to our success was getting him a few early made threes. Perhaps Jordan is like that...we need to work to get him open and get him some early confidence. Perhaps that opens things up.

Chapman concerns me quite a bit. He doesn't seem to have made the leap at all from year one to year two.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

I think it's waaaaaaayyyyyyy to early to worry about the tournament. Short of going sub .500 in league play, we're going to have a solid RPI/SOS all season long and will probably make it. Listening to a national CBB writer on the local station here in DC, even he said that the Pac 12 is the deepest, most compelling league in college basketball. We're going to get a good number of teams in, and the Utes are still very much in that discussion.

This is 100% true. Look I loved turning the screw a little last night, and was hoping for that chance to since some weekend in late September that my counselor is helping me forget, but getting hammered in a bball game isn't a big deal for the tourney. You have a couple of really good non-conf wins, get anything better than 9-9 in conf and you'll be in the dance. People have hammered on the Pac for a few years, but this is the best top to bottom the league has been since 2001-02 season when 7 teams went to the dance. I could see 8, maybe 9 teams getting in this year.

[Scorcho]

That may have been the worst performance in the Larry era. That was painful. It's rare not have at least 1-2 players have a good game, but Utah had no one last night.

[DrumNFeather]

I guess so, but I'd be surprised if we finish above .500 in conference play. The conference is turning out to be tougher than anyone expected, and we are not playing well.

In an attempt at optimism, however, I think it's reasonable to hope for the following:

1) Poeltl returns to 20-10 form. This is the most likely item on the list. I can't imagine a tournament team without this happening.

2) Jayce Johnson becomes the starting 4. Unlikely. If he were ready to contribute in a way that would take us to the dance, I think he'd already be playing. This is a bit discouraging for now and in anticipation of next year.

3) The collective three point percentage of Taylor, Loveridge, Bonam, Chapman, Kuzma, Wright and Tucker goes up 5 percentage points.

4) Ogbe returns and plays really well.

Some combo of those things will have to happen for us to make it. Not impossible.

It sounds cliche (because it is) but really, the team just needs to take care of business here. Beat OSU and I guess hope for the ducks to beat the Buffs and you're sitting at 2-3 along with Cal, UCLA, and CU and OSU.

Hopefully they can gather some momentum on Sunday, get a win @ Wazzu and see where it goes from there. It's a long shot, but if they could somehow get to 4-3 before the home stand with Stanford/Cal, I think they'll be in decent shape at the turn.

[U-Ute]

I think I caught dysentery from that game last night.

[UBlender]

A few thoughts on this thread....

1). The Senior Class. I hate to pile on Loveridge because I think that, for some reason, he has been the Arnold Parker of Utah basketball for the past two years (even today I'm seeing him singled out more even though I don't think he was any/much worse than everyone else last night--but now I'm about to become part of the problem too). I took some flak on twitter and this board for having Loveridge off the bench in my projected lineup for Utah this year. There is room for a guy who can shoot the ball like he can, but he is limited in enough ways that my feeling is that he should be more of a role player. I think he'd be great playing the microwave role off the bench. I don't expect anything to change at this point. Utah has three seniors. It is important to note that Tucker and Taylor probably never should have been PAC 12 recruits but they were signed when Utah was coming off of the 6-win season. Loveridge was a great signing at the time but as I mentioned, he probably shouldn't be playing such a large role unless you have a magician like Delon Wright next to him helping to mask all of his deficiencies. I give these guys credit because overall they've outperformed their recruiting ratings, but we're seeing a reminder that you usually need a solid core of PAC 12 players to win in this league rather than two great players and a bunch of guys playing above their skill level. I think we have that going forward, we'll see.

2. Postseason Projections. Last night was as ugly as we've seen in a long while, but I don't think it's time for panic. It's a long season and Utah is not as bad as what they showed last night. I think this team has no shot at winning the PAC 12 at this point (obviously, right). But the NCAA is still within reach. This week Utah was projected anywhere from a 4-7 seed. This loss will hurt that of course, but you don't go from a 7-seed to out just because you lose to a very good Oregon team. Utah still has a great SOS/RPI and some good wins. Almost every PAC 12 game will be against top 50 RPI so there is no shortage of opportunity here. If Utah can get .500 or better in conference they will make the tournament. What needs to happen is Utah needs to win 6-7 of the 8 remaining home games and 2-3 of the 6 remaining road games. The Washington road trip will be big. I think we'll be able to tell a lot by how Utah looks Sunday. If they win solidly then I'll feel good about their chance to pull out of this funk, but if the lose or struggle badly then things could start to spiral.

3. What's Wrong? Last night, everything went poorly, but what is really wrong with this team. I think overall poor guard play is hurting this team the most. Forget shooting/scoring, the guards are also struggling to run the offense without turning the ball over and getting the ball to the scorers in the right spots. One thing I've noticed is that as Bonam goes, so go the Utes. Hopefully, Utah can find some consistency there. Having Ogbe back and unhindered would help a lot too. Utah also is thinking too much. I saw a lot of open shooters pass up shots to either take a tougher shot or pass to a teammate who wasn't in position to score. First play of the game Loveridge had a three swatted and everyone appeared hesitant at first rather than shooting with confidence. I also think the team faced some distractions that appeared to take their toll. Aside from the BYU thing, you also had two new players show up in the last week and I wonder if players are worrying more about whether these new guys are going to take their playing time next year and not focusing on the task at hand. I think there is a talent level issue as I alluded to above, but there is a mental issue as well right now.

This team also has no role players. Everyone sees himself as a scorer. Everyone is capable of making a shot, which is fine, but perhaps the only guy in the rotation who comes in looking to bring some energy and toughness is Reyes (speaking of people who are playing in a league above their skill level). Among the first eight, nobody has a defense/effort/toughness first mentality. I think we miss Bachynski's energy more than his actual production. We also could use someone like Princeton Onwas who played with a chip on his shoulder all the time. Hopefully they can find that somewhere.

Long season, plenty of work to do. I think Utah gets drilled at USC and at Oregon and loses their annual heartbreaker against Arizona in the Huntsman, but I think every other game is winnable if Utah plays something near peak form. Like I said above, I think we'll be able to tell a lot by what happens Sunday (beyond just win/lose).

[Utebiquitous]

Great comments Blender. I don't know if it was you or someone else but I remember someone mentioning that we'd miss Dallin a ton this year. We do.

I heard today that the coaches hope to have Ogbe back for the stretch run - whatever that means. Guard play is what Jim Soto emphasizes to me whenever we discuss the Utes so your assessment there is exactly what he's been talking about. Bonham needs to get more consistent fast.

[Old Standing ute]

Utterly ridiculous statement. Altman is probably the best coach in the league. Oregon has overachieved just about every year on his watch.

Agreed--retract it.

over-reaction to trash talk when Poeltl was injured & tripled teamed because he has little support & Larry 80K not being aggressive, when he just acted on his beliefs & backed it up with his check book.

But when you win you can say whatever you want-----so my bad.

Agree with Blender----we had to recruit Taylor/Tucker who we would not recruit now--they hit their ceiling. Win the rest of the home games & steal a road game & that is as good as it gets this year.

Do not waste a year of Jayce Johnson playing 12 minutes a game for the next dozen games for a full year when he is fully developed at age 22; this group is what it is, but the future looks bright.

[justaute]

Also, Wright has not performed well. The two 4* athletes in Kuzma and Chapman are "ok" at best.

[Rocker Ute]

We needed Jordan when we got him. His signing represented far more than just getting the top in-state player, given where we were at the time.

I know you hate Boylen and I'm not going to attempt to change your views on him. But I have no problem acknowledging why he wasn't as high on Jordan as many in his profession. He has no left hand. He has no lateral quickness. He was never tested in HS, and his weaknesses could never be exploited long-term in AAU competition, where there's little to no scouting because there's little to nothing at stake at the team level.

Statistically, he peaked as a sophomore, and usage (34.4 MPG) had a ton to do with that. On the flip side, the program needed him to improve sooner rather than later, and he's done that. You can only ask so much from players, and we cannot ask any more from Jordan (although his inability to develop his left hand is inexcusable). Ultimately, coming out of HS, you could see Jordan's ceiling was only so high, and that he would probably get there sooner rather than later.

If Loveridge's physical and mental twin came out of a Utah HS this year, I think the coaching staff would object strongly to anyone saying we should pursue him.

I don't disagree with any of this (with the exception of noting that it wasn't like Boylen was passing up on Loveridge for far superior recruits - but that is neither here nor there). I guess what bothers me is the heart he displays. He has limited upside, but his disappearing acts seem to be almost 100% him versus superior players just shutting him down. In other words don't count on him to be a senior who takes the team on his shoulders and guts out a win. He's the first guy to hang his shoulders in a game... all while putting in the hours to be a good player (I always hear these accounts of staying after practice or showing up in the JMHC at 6am to shoot with his dad...)

Basically I wanted him to be one of my favorite Utes along the lines of Jimmy Soto, Tommy C or Alex Jensen - the local guy with some good but limited tools but a ton of heart.

Anyway, I think we agree.

I was hoping he'd have a breakout year, I guess it isn't too late, but it looks highly improbable.

You rightfully point out our recruiting has come a long way from when he came aboard too.


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[justaute]

Maybe we can borrow a PG or two from the women's team? :)

[concerned]

Agreed--retract it.

over-reaction to trash talk when Poeltl was injured & tripled teamed because he has little support & Larry 80K not being aggressive, when he just acted on his beliefs & backed it up with his check book.

But when you win you can say whatever you want-----so my bad.

Agree with Blender----we had to recruit Taylor/Tucker who we would not recruit now--they hit their ceiling. Win the rest of the home games & steal a road game & that is as good as it gets this year.

Do not waste a year of Jayce Johnson playing 12 minutes a game for the next dozen games for a full year when he is fully developed at age 22; this group is what it is, but the future looks bright.

Why do we think the future is bright? Nobody like Delon. Nobody like Poeltl. Current players haven't developed or improved or shown much. Seems as though the ceiling is low. Why is this more than a .500 team in the next few years?

[DrumNFeather]

I don't disagree with any of this (with the exception of noting that it wasn't like Boylen was passing up on Loveridge for far superior recruits - but that is neither here nor there). I guess what bothers me is the heart he displays. He has limited upside, but his disappearing acts seem to be almost 100% him versus superior players just shutting him down. In other words don't count on him to be a senior who takes the team on his shoulders and guts out a win. He's the first guy to hang his shoulders in a game... all while putting in the hours to be a good player (I always hear these accounts of staying after practice or showing up in the JMHC at 6am to shoot with his dad...)

Basically I wanted him to be one of my favorite Utes along the lines of Jimmy Soto, Tommy C or Alex Jensen - the local guy with some good but limited tools but a ton of heart.

Anyway, I think we agree.

I was hoping he'd have a breakout year, I guess it isn't too late, but it looks highly improbable.

You rightfully point out our recruiting has come a long way from when he came aboard too.


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Shaun Green 2.0?

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[SeattleUte]

Why do we think the future is bright? Nobody like Delon. Nobody like Poeltl. Current players haven't developed or improved or shown much. Seems as though the ceiling is low. Why is this more than a .500 team in the next few years?

I love you, man. I really do. You are nothing but integrity and a tireless gadfly. I was going to post that Ute fans endlessly give Kodiak a pass and relentlessly find fault with Whit, who really has over a (longer) career has achieved a great deal more and in the recent past has in every way equalled or surpassed Kodiak's achievement. If you look at Kodiak's program in the cold light of reason it has the same challenges as Whit's (basically, recruiting obstacles arising from being in a small and isolated city and the Mormon culture and wholly overmatched by hugely more populous, more glamorous west coast venues), and has had to address and has dealt with them much the same way--coaching up, JUCOS, brains, diamonds in the rough, defense, ball control, etc. I was going to say that the disparate reactions to Whit and Kodiak are all about who Hill doesn't like and likes--i.e., there is no leaked murmuring about Kodiak from the AD's office. But you proved me wrong!

[SeattleUte]

I think I share your concern. Look at the projected roster for next year, and all the hope is in 5 newcomers. Maybe those five work out well, but there's not much in the returning players to get excited about.

I think Kentucky has the same problem year after year.

[LA Ute]

I will emulate Seattle Ute here and suggest that we all step back from the ledge for now. Our conference is ridiculously tough this year and a lot of teams are going to lose unexpectedly. We had such a loss at Stanford. Let's see what happens in the next three or four games before we give up hope.

[EDIT: I posted this before I saw Seattle Ute's post above. This post is not in response to that one.]


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[SeattleUte]

I will emulate Seattle Ute here and suggest that we all step back from the ledge for now. Our conference is ridiculously tough this year and a lot of teams are going to lose unexpectedly. We had such a loss at Stanford. Let's see what happens in the next three or four games before we give up hope.

[EDIT: I posted this before I saw Seattle Ute's post above. This post is not in response to that one.]


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But my post above is not inconsistent. I did not intend to suggest we should start bagging on Kodiak. I love both our DI coaches.

[LA Ute]

But my post above is not inconsistent. I did not intend to suggest we should start bagging on Kodiak. I love both our DI coaches.

Once again, we agree.


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[Ma'ake]

I agree on the great post by Blender.

My take on the Oregon game is they played really well on offense - eg, midrange bank shots by Brooks while moving laterally - and we simply did not. Poeltl's ankle injury disrupting preparation didn't help, but Oregon's rapid changes on defense had us flummoxed on offense.

I'm hopeful we bounce back vs the Beavs, but with USC's ascendance, we're not a top-third PAC team, which is really crappy timing, because Arizona is not what they were last year, either. Dropping the game at Stanford is stinging, right now.

It's still early in league play, but Larry's got to be feeling the heat of PAC parity, like Kyle fully absorbed after our first year in football, where we fought our way to a 4-5 record, and 1/3 of the coaches in the league were canned.

[Old Standing ute]

I think the future is better, because 80K inherited a dumpster fire & could only recruit 1 or 2 *s like Taylor/Tucker.
We now have a 4* in Jayce J.; Barefield was a top 100 or 150 recruit; Collette was freshman of the year in Mt. West (although he was probably a 2*).

So Utes are bringing in better talent. In part because of the new building.

Talent wins games. Not good enough to just recruit the "best" players from Utah---they appear to be past that hurdle.

[concerned]

I think the future is better, because 80K inherited a dumpster fire & could only recruit 1 or 2 *s like Taylor/Tucker.
We now have a 4* in Jayce J.; Barefield was a top 100 or 150 recruit; Collette was freshman of the year in Mt. West (although he was probably a 2*).

So Utes are bringing in better talent. In part because of the new building.

Talent wins games. Not good enough to just recruit the "best" players from Utah---they appear to be past that hurdle.

Well, that is the long term future, assuming these current or future freshmen pan out. In the near term (next two years), I suspect we are going to take a further step back, as we did this year. OSU, ASU, and UW are on the upswing; they very well may displace us from the top half of the conference.

[LA Ute]

80K has done a job of producing success that's even more impressive than KW's. I hope he hangs in and doesn't get discouraged.


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[LA Ute]

Sorry for the last-minute offer. Does anyone want tickets to tonight's game?


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[Dwight Schr-Ute]

Good Lord, this team.


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[LA Ute]

What on earth has happened to this bunch of Utes? Shake it off, guys!

[concerned]

So inept against a zone

[LA Ute]

So inept against a zone

And yet Josh Grant says he was always excited to see a zone from Utah's opponents because it was so easy to break down a zone.

[concerned]

Josh Grant was at least five times better offensively than anyone on this team not named Poeltl.

And poeltl isn't very good offensively. There is no scorer on this team and you need two.

[LA Ute]

Reyes is so pathetic at finishing. It's shocking.

[LA Ute]

The two most amazing things about this game to me are the guard's ineptitude (including turnovers, but not limited to that) and the ease with which OSU is getting to the hoop offensively.

[LA Ute]

We need to go on a run now.

[SeattleUte]

Oregon State is not a bad team. It's 11-4 and 2-2 in the Pac 12. It beat Oregon and Cal. It's got a couple of dynamite freshmen (how did Larry not recruit Tinkle, from Montana?). It's not Portland State. The Pac 12 is just good, all over. Everybody is good. And college basketball is just brutal for anyone; it's crazy competitive. Look at what's happened to Michigan State and Duke this weekend.

"Please help me, Mr. Wizard! I don't want to be a Pac 12 team anymore."

[concerned]

We did recruit tinkle. Probably would have come here if his dad were still at montana.

[LA Ute]

We need to go on a run now.

Swish!

[SeattleUte]

Nice win!

[LA Ute]

Nice win!

We really needed it.

[SeattleUte]

80K has done a job of producing success that's even more impressive than KW's. I hope he hangs in and doesn't get discouraged.


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LA, I've been puzzling over the meaning of this post. Can you explain it?

[SeattleUte]

We did recruit tinkle. Probably would have come here if his dad were still at montana.

Coach's son. Duh. How come I didn't know that. Your answer is too nice.

[DrumNFeather]

Oh my. Never seen that. How many games is that?
You would think that is a multiple game suspension, I mean, I think the rest of the season would be fair. Insane.

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[LA Ute]

LA, I've been puzzling over the meaning of this post. Can you explain it?

Just saying he's done a fantastic job so far doing in basketball what Kyle does in football -- work around the inherent limitations to coaching at Utah. I just hope he doesn't get sick of the nonsense -- e.g., BYU, the legislature, being treated like the representative of Satan. All that must be very weird to an outsider coming into the situation, and it's all magnified by the PAC-12 bitterness. Another job, with a less oddball culture clash, might look better to him after a while.


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[Ma'ake]

Just got back from the game. This team needs therapy.

Nice comeback, gut check win. DeMarlo Slocum on the post game said the reason we struggle against good zone teams is we can't replicate it in practice. Oregon State's zone is not a Syracuse-level zone, but... sigh... at least we're getting OJT in how to attack it.

Isaiah does a good job of running the offense, but trying to solve the zone while minimizing turnovers means a lot of perimeter passing. Reyes... love the kid, but he has shorter arms than Bonam. We may need to bring in Brekkott for Poeltl and make Kuzma slide into the post. If either Chapman or Kuzma get hurt, we're in deep trouble.

I'm glad Loveridge is mature and confident enough to weather his dry spells. Bonam's a point guard, but if Loveridge or Tucker are dry, they need to let Taylor run the zone attack and have Bonam be a spot-up shooter.

The Beavs were abusing smaller defenders earlier in the game, just posting up and over powering them.

I'm hoping for a split on the trip to WA.

[SeattleUte]

Just saying he's done a fantastic job so far doing in basketball what Kyle does in football -- work around the inherent limitations to coaching at Utah. I just hope he doesn't get sick of the nonsense -- e.g., BYU, the legislature, being treated like the representative of Satan. All that must be very weird to an outsider coming into the situation, and it's all magnified by the PAC-12 bitterness. Another job, with a less oddball culture clash, might look better to him after a while.


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His success is not more impressive than Kyle's. It's just not. All I want is rational discourse.

[SeattleUte]

LA, this is precisely the double standard I posted about above. So, this is Kodiak's fifth year. Do you remembers where the football Utes finished in KW's fifth season? This season the football Utes finished in the Sweet 16 and had several famous victories. Has Kodiak beaten every Pac 12 team?

I don't want to give Kodiak a hard time. I just think that many Ute fans fawn over Kodiak while they hold Whit to a much higher standard. I wonder why. Maybe it's Hill and his backbiting staff's fault. Or, maybe Jesus was right--familiarity breeds contempt.

[LA Ute]

LA, this is precisely the double standard I posted about above. So, this is Kodiak's fifth year. Do you remembers where the football Utes finished in KW's fifth season? This season the football Utes finished in the Sweet 16 and had several famous victories. Has Kodiak beaten every Pac 12 team?

I don't want to give Kodiak a hard time. I just think that many Ute fans fawn over Kodiak while they hold Whit to a much higher standard. I wonder why. Maybe it's Hill and his backbiting staff's fault. Or, maybe Jesus was right--familiarity breeds contempt.


His success is not more impressive than Kyle's. It's just not. All I want is rational discourse.

We don't disagree much, if at all. All I was saying is that Basketball was worse off when LK took over than football was when Kyle took over. But basketball can be turned around more quickly than football. So the two are probably pretty even. I didn't mean to take anything away from Kyle.

[SeattleUte]

You would think that is a multiple game suspension, I mean, I think the rest of the season would be fair. Insane.

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It's not clear to me he meant to do it. The ref was coming from behind him and his leg was in an awkward spot. Maybe he just put his leg out there that way to improve his leverage for standing up quickly.

[kccougar]

Just saying he's done a fantastic job so far doing in basketball what Kyle does in football -- work around the inherent limitations to coaching at Utah. I just hope he doesn't get sick of the nonsense -- e.g., BYU, the legislature, being treated like the representative of Satan. All that must be very weird to an outsider coming into the situation, and it's all magnified by the PAC-12 bitterness. Another job, with a less oddball culture clash, might look better to him after a while.


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You're totally right, LA. It is BYU making Larry look like an oddball.

[LA Ute]

You're totally right, LA. It is BYU making Larry look like an oddball.

This does not measure up against your better work. I'm disappointed.

[UtahsMrSports]

We are now 4-5 against the RPI Top 50. 4-0 against 51-100. Solidly in the tournament. Our conference is insane. 11 teams in the top 60.

[LA Ute]

You're totally right, LA. It is BYU making Larry look like an oddball.

A further response: I saw this on Facebook:

http://www.cougarboard.com/board/message.html?id=15286646

You have to admit that to an outsider who is unfamiliar with the culture, that looks strange and over the top. Not to mention polarizing.


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[Two Utes]

A further response: I saw this on Facebook:

http://www.cougarboard.com/board/message.html?id=15286646

You have to admit that to an outsider who is unfamiliar with the culture, that looks strange and over the top. Not to mention polarizing.


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LA, you participate in weekly activities with people like this. How in the world do you justify that?

[LA Ute]

LA, you participate in weekly activities with people like this. How in the world do you justify that?

I have never met, in real life, anyone who thinks the way that guy does. Then again, I don't live in Utah. I am just worried that the weirdness, the extremism, and the tendency of some to create "others" will make greener pastures look even greener to our head coach. He Is probably a bigger person than they are, but still, I am a worry wart.

[Two Utes]

I have never met, in real life, anyone who thinks the way that guy does. Then again, I don't live in Utah. I am just worried that the weirdness, the extremism, and the tendency of some to create "others"will make greener pastures look even greener to our head coach. He Is probably a bigger person than they are, but still, I am a worry wart.


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You might want to check his profile. Californian. "actor, model and spokesperson"

[SeattleUte]

I have never met, in real life, anyone who thinks the way that guy does. Then again, I don't live in Utah. I am just worried that the weirdness, the extremism, and the tendency of some to create "others" will make greener pastures look even greener to our head coach. He Is probably a bigger person than they are, but still, I am a worry wart.


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Hold on. I think the way he does, and you know me. Actually, I reject his vitriol and hyperbole, including particularly the charge of bigotry. What he is describing is not bigotry. But I do think there is a cultural divide at work here, and he has in his own paranoid, crazy way, summed it up. The irony is that so much of BYU is like Utah. BYU may be a department of the LDS Church, but I submit that if you cracked it open and examined the insides it is by far the most progressive and enlightened part of the LDS Church. The atavistic elements are all feeling squeezed everywhere.

[LA Ute]

Hold on. I think the way he does, and you know me. Actually, I reject his vitriol and hyperbole, including particularly the charge of bigotry. What he is describing is not bigotry. But I do think there is a cultural divide at work here, and he has in his own paranoid, crazy way, summed it up. The irony is that so much of BYU is like Utah. BYU may be a department of the LDS Church, but I submit that if you cracked it open and examined the insides it is by far the most progressive and enlightened part of the LDS Church. The atavistic elements are all feeling squeezed everywhere.

I don't think the problem comes from BYU as an institution. It's Utah-LDS culture that tends to arise in areas with high concentrations of Great Basin Mormons, Utah County and perhaps Davis County being the biggest centers. Even in those areas my sense is that guys like that CB poster are a minority. Most people just don't care that much about college sports.

In Salt Lake City, by contrast, Krysko is probably widely viewed as a hero. Salt Lake is not the city that you and I left decades ago. When I am there now (and I visit a lot) it reminds me of Boulder -- especially Salt Lake City proper.

The more extreme views do find their way into the Legislature, where the more conservative members cater to the more conservative voters, because those are the voters who vote and donate. (But isn't the "mass meeting" system in Utah gone? That always gave the highly-motivated hard-core conservatives a disproportionate voice back in the day when I was involved there.)

[Old Standing ute]

Belated comments on the OSU game.

Wayne Tinkle is a good coach--his team does not have great talent, but plays together. They beat Ore by 15(?)--I assume a home game. His kid is also really good. He is what we/I expected Brekkott to be----can score inside/outside & play smart. Brekkott is a really nice, soft-spoken person---he also plays like that. Hope he can progress.
Same with I. Wright---very nice young man. He sometimes looks like he is trying to be too "pass first point" guard. He watched that part of John Stockton--not the tough pick on big guys Stockton.
And as someone said Jordan Loveridge is the Travis Wilson of basketball---love him for coming here, but he has his issues.

BUT Utes could go 2-0 or 0-2 on the Washington swing----the Pac-12 tourney & the March madness tourney should both being great this year--as no real strong favorites in either tourney.

Only point on above discussion is the crowd at Sunday games is different & not good different---and it is never full.

[Scratch]

You might want to check his profile. Californian. "actor, model and spokesperson"

That guy's a substitute teacher from Provo. Don't give him too much credit or view him as anything but emblematic of the uninformed extremists from the heart of Utah County.

[Scratch]

That guy's a substitute teacher from Provo. Don't give him too much credit or view him as anything but emblematic of the uninformed extremists from the heart of Utah County.


By the way, just in case you were wondering, here's an example of this guy's view of the world:

https://twitter.com/kugrlover/status/519017087281672192

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

Lol Beavers.

[SoCalPat]

By the way, just in case you were wondering, here's an example of this guy's view of the world:

https://twitter.com/kugrlover/status/519017087281672192

This guy is a long-time kook. Most long-time CB'ers don't respect him. He was habitually wrong with "insider" info. That I still remember him after serving the first 5 years of my 100-year ban over there should be saying something. I'm pretty certain he was doing freelance work on BYU and was in the locker room and his cellphone went off with BYU ringtone while local TV was filming an interview with John Beck. Patrick Kinihan gave him grief over it, and I believe he was banned from getting credentials for BYU events for this (and other events).

[LA Ute]

This guy is a long-time kook. Most long-time CB'ers don't respect him. He was habitually wrong with "insider" info. That I still remember him after serving the first 5 years of my 100-year ban over there should be saying something. I'm pretty certain he was doing freelance work on BYU and was in the locker room and his cellphone went off with BYU ringtone while local TV was filming an interview with John Beck. Patrick Kinihan gave him grief over it, and I believe he was banned from getting credentials for BYU events for this (and other events).

I hope he is an outlier, then. I just now ventured onto that board and saw that no one challenged his post. Everyone who responded agreed with him. Maybe they don't take him seriously.

[SoCalPat]

Great win, I guess. Thank god I tuned in at halftime. I'm ashamed to admit I was ever high on Chris Reyes. First action he gets, he turns the ball over and bricks his 8 millionth layup. We didn't turn the ball over, and OSU didn't benefit from the whistle at all. Nobody in this game played exceptionally well, but a win's a win, and I'm rarely content with that rationale. Speaks volumes about where Utah is at and how dog-eat-dog this league is.

[SeattleUte]

By the way, just in case you were wondering, here's an example of this guy's view of the world:

https://twitter.com/kugrlover/status/519017087281672192

Yuck

[mUUser]

I don't think the problem comes from BYU as an institution. It's Utah-LDS culture that tends to arise in areas with high concentrations of Great Basin Mormons, Utah County and perhaps Davis County being the biggest centers. Even in those areas my sense is that guys like that CB poster are a minority. Most people just don't care that much about college sports.

In Salt Lake City, by contrast, Krysko is probably widely viewed as a hero. Salt Lake is not the city that you and I left decades ago. When I am there now (and I visit a lot) it reminds me of Boulder -- especially Salt Lake City proper.

The more extreme views do find their way into the Legislature, where the more conservative members cater to the more conservative voters, because those are the voters who vote and donate. (But isn't the "mass meeting" system in Utah gone? That always gave the highly-motivated hard-core conservatives a disproportionate voice back in the day when I was involved there.)


You're not making me feel good here LA. I'm gonna hate it. Worse, I don't want to put my kid in that environment. Ugh.......

[Jarid in Cedar]

Great win, I guess. Thank god I tuned in at halftime. I'm ashamed to admit I was ever high on Chris Reyes. First action he gets, he turns the ball over and bricks his 8 millionth layup. We didn't turn the ball over, and OSU didn't benefit from the whistle at all. Nobody in this game played exceptionally well, but a win's a win, and I'm rarely content with that rationale. Speaks volumes about where Utah is at and how dog-eat-dog this league is.

We need just one perimeter play to find their mojo. This has been a season long problem and will get worse in league play if we can't get some consistent perimeter scoring.

As far as Reyes is concerned, I would be surprised to see him and IWright back next season.

[SeattleUte]

By the way, just in case you were wondering, here's an example of this guy's view of the world:

https://twitter.com/kugrlover/status/519017087281672192

I wonder if he thinks HE's a bigot. He seems confused about the word's meaning.

[SeattleUte]

We need just one perimeter play to find their mojo. This has been a season long problem and will get worse in league play if we can't get some consistent perimeter scoring.

As far as Reyes is concerned, I would be surprised to see him and IWright back next season.

Those two really belonged in the WCAC or the MWC. They were the competition we recruited against, not Pac 12 teams. When Kodiak recruited them he had no choice but to try to coach them up. Same with Tucker. He still has to do that somewhat.

[LA Ute]

You're not making me feel good here LA. I'm gonna hate it. Worse, I don't want to put my kid in that environment. Ugh.......

I think you'll be fine in the eastern half of Salt Lake County.

[NorthwestUteFan]

You're not making me feel good here LA. I'm gonna hate it. Worse, I don't want to put my kid in that environment. Ugh.......
That guy isn't at all representative of Utahns, or evenof byu fans, any more than Ammon Bundy is representative of Mormons.

[LA Ute]

That guy isn't at all representative of Utahns, or even of byu fans, any more than Ammon Bundy is representative of Mormons.

True. He was a great club to hit KC Cougar over the head with, however.

[Two Utes]

You're not making me feel good here LA. I'm gonna hate it. Worse, I don't want to put my kid in that environment. Ugh.......

mUUser, the east bench rocks. Great people. Good city. Besides Jan and Feb weather is solid. Outdoors are right next to you. I love it here.

BUT, if you end up in Holladay understand you are living in Farmington/south, Highland/Alpine North.

LA has a distorted view of this place (even though he still loves to come here often).

[UtahsMrSports]

Guys, we really ought to be showing more respect to mr kugrlover. We are talking about a guy here who starred in High School Musical 2 as a wealthy college booster, a church goer in Granite Flats, an office party fireplace guest in 12 Gifts of Christmas, and last but certainly not least, a christmas tree lot customer in Christmas Land! This guy deserves our praise and respect, not ridicule!

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3639377/

This guy is a complete clown. I spend a decent amount of time on Imdb and I have never seen a page like this. Dude clearly wrote it himself. If you have a few minutes, the "bio" and "trivia" sections are priceless. He refers to himself as the Rudy of BYU football.

[LA Ute]

mUUser, the east bench rocks. Great people. Good city. Besides Jan and Feb weather is solid. Outdoors are right next to you. I love it here.

BUT, if you end up in Holladay understand you are living in Farmington/south, Highland/Alpine North.

LA has a distorted view of this place (even though he still loves to come here often).

I really need to concede that I have not lived in Salt Lake City for 34 years, although I have had a place there for the last 10 years. Extensive visits to a certain part of town do not qualify me to come in town the rest of the city. But, what Two Utes says rings true. Listen to him, muuser. Sounds like you should stick to the east bench of Salt Lake City proper.


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[kccougar]

True. He was a great club to hit KC Cougar over the head with, however.

You can't have more fun at kugrmaniac's expense than Cougarboard has had for years. He even has his own greatest hits thread on CS. If you were hoping for a rise out of me over him, you swung that club and missed.

[LA Ute]

Jamal Reid's apology:


"I'm well aware that my actions not only embarrassed my family, but also the university and the Oregon State basketball program," Reid said in a statement. "I was not raised to act in that manner that was displayed on that play. I'm well aware that I made a mistake that has damaged my image. My actions are inexcusable and I am willing to accept any and all consequences that are to follow."

http://www.irontontribune.com/2016/01/19/reid-apologizes-for-tripping-ref/

[Irving Washington]

I really need to concede that I have not lived in Salt Lake City for 34 years, although I have had a place there for the last 10 years. Extensive visits to a certain part of town do not qualify me to come in town the rest of the city. But, what Two Utes says rings true. Listen to him, muuser. Sounds like you should stick to the east bench of Salt Lake City proper.


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Don't forget the Avenues. A great place to live.

[UtahsMrSports]

You can't have more fun at kugrmaniac's expense than Cougarboard has had for years. He even has his own greatest hits thread on CS. If you were hoping for a rise out of me over him, you swung that club and missed.

We all have them. You guys have him. We have Moose and Comrade Crimson. It all evens out in the end. Have to say though, its pretty cool that your nutjobs have their own imdb pages! I dont think ours do.

[DrumNFeather]

We all have them. You guys have him. We have Moose and Comrade Crimson. It all evens out in the end. Have to say though, its pretty cool that your nutjobs have their own imdb pages! I dont think ours do.

My favorite part of the Trivia is after every nugget there's a question..."Is this interesting?" Where's the "no" button!

[LA Ute]

Don't forget the Avenues. A great place to live.

Agreed. Our SLC place is there. We love it. Probably a great cultural fit for muuser too.


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[LA Ute]

You can't have more fun at kugrmaniac's expense than Cougarboard has had for years. He even has his own greatest hits thread on CS. If you were hoping for a rise out of me over him, you swung that club and missed.

I still think I should get style points.


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[UtahsMrSports]

My favorite part of the Trivia is after every nugget there's a question..."Is this interesting?" Where's the "no" button!

Ha!

I was tempted to start a discussion in the Michael McQuain message board that said something along the lines of "Michael's performance as a Russian traveler moved me beyond words. He has set the gold standard against which all future portrayals of Russian travelers will be judged."

Im afraid hed take it as a genuine compliment and it wold only fuel his fire..........