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UtahsMrSports
04-06-2017, 07:35 PM
Targetting infrastructure, aircraft, and runways.

Dwight Schr-Ute
04-06-2017, 08:23 PM
Hold on to your butts.


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Rocker Ute
04-07-2017, 07:12 AM
Someone on Facebook posted a video of the Syrian children dying from the chemical attacks. You know how Facebook just auto plays videos as you scroll past?

It wasn't something I wanted to see but remains the worst thing I've ever seen in my life. The abject cruelty of a chemical attack can not be understated. And to innocent children...

I believe in peace but we can't sit idly by on this one, nor can the world. I'm glad Trump did something to respond.


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LA Ute
04-07-2017, 08:12 AM
Not gonna lie, this makes me feel better about the strike:


Trump’s alt-right base is fighting mad – they see Vladimir Putin as an ally and hawkish conservatives as the enemy. Mike Cernovich, whom members of the administration were praising just a few days ago, went on the warpath on Twitter; so did Infowars’ Paul Joseph Watson, who declared himself “OFF the Trump train.” Ann Coulter railed against Trump’s strike.

http://www.dailywire.com/news/15207/5-big-questions-about-trumps-missile-strike-syrias-ben-shapiro


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LA Ute
04-07-2017, 08:28 AM
PolitiFact Retracts ‘Mostly True’ Ruling That U.S. Removed ‘100 Percent’ of Syria’s Chemical Weapons

http://freebeacon.com/national-security/politifact-retracts-mostly-true-ruling-u-s-removed-100-percent-syrias-chemical-weapons/

UTEopia
04-07-2017, 09:21 AM
I don't want the US embroiled in another meaningless (to the US) conflict in the middle-east, but I support this strike in retaliation for the use of chemical weapons. Trump's decision was quick and his reasoning clear.

U-Ute
04-07-2017, 09:49 AM
It sounds like this was nothing more than a very expensive PR show by Trump.

None of the actual runways were hit. No planes destroyed as Syria was given a heads up (presumably from Russia). Russia's air defense was switched off.

UtahsMrSports
04-07-2017, 12:46 PM
I dont know whether to give Trump some credit here for doing something, or if I should roll my eyes because its potentially just another attempt to distract from his scandal with Russia. And I hate that I have to wonder.

concerned
04-07-2017, 01:11 PM
I dont know whether to give Trump some credit here for doing something, or if I should roll my eyes because its potentially just another attempt to distract from his scandal with Russia. And I hate that I have to wonder.


there are a lot of Trump tweets from 2012 and 2013 telling Obama not to strike Syria, but this one is pretty good:


Donald J. Trump
✔@realDonaldTrump (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump)

Now that Obama’s poll numbers are in tailspin – watch for him to launch a strike in Libya or Iran. He is desperate.
3:39 PM - 9 Oct 2012 (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/255784560904773633)

U-Ute
04-07-2017, 01:32 PM
Trump the pre-candidate vs Trump the President:

373146637184401408

LA Ute
04-07-2017, 01:40 PM
Let's compare:

Bill Clinton destroys an aspirin factory in the middle of being impeached, thus inspiring the movie "Wag the Dog."

Donald the Trump whacks the Syrian base where a Sarin gas attack originated (the Sarin attack being a blatant violation of a treaty to which the USA is a signatory); in the middle of trying to fend off a bunch of very serious allegations about his new administration.

There are definitely some similarities, but a huge difference: Trump is actually responding to a horrible war crime. I guess he could have simply declared a really, really red line, or maybe a dark red line, or something equally scary to the bad guys over there.

Here are a couple of analyses:

From the right-leaning Walter Russell Mead:

What the Syria Strikes Mean
https://www.the-american-interest.com/2017/04/07/what-the-syria-strikes-mean/

From Anthony Blinken, a left-leaning former deputy secretary of state in the Obama administration:

After the Missiles, We Need Smart Diplomacy on Syria

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/07/opinion/after-the-missiles-we-need-smart-diplomacy.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0

Rocker Ute
04-07-2017, 01:41 PM
I'm willing to give a president some slack for this sort of stuff pre-presidency. Obama in his campaign promised to shut down gitmo and then got in and probably learned that wasn't feasible.

As for whether it was PR or a distraction I'm of the opinion that it needed to happen. Actually what really needs to happen is to put a cruise missile right where the sun doesn't shine on Assad.

Chemical weapons on children is Hitler level evil.


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Scorcho
04-07-2017, 01:47 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/806242452528975872/noWUmHen_bigger.jpgReuters Top News‏Verified account @Reuters (https://twitter.com/Reuters) Follow

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JUST IN: Syrian warplanes take off from air base hit by U.S., carry out strikes in Homs countryside - Syrian observatory for human rights

concerned
04-07-2017, 01:47 PM
I'm willing to give a president some slack for this sort of stuff pre-presidency. Obama in his campaign promised to shut down gitmo and then got in and probably learned that wasn't feasible.

As for weather it was PR or a distraction I'm of the opinion that it needed to happen. Actually what really needs to happen is to put a cruise missile right where the sun doesn't shine on Assat.

Chemical weapons on children is Hitler level evil.


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I agree with you.

The strike was the right decision and had to happen. I just enjoy the irony of Trump's postering, which most of the time is incoherent, impulsive, and designed for immeidate impact, regardless of the inconsistency down the road.

the real question is what happens next, as everybody points out. Reports suggest the airfield is operating again, that most of the jets were moved before the strike, and that Assad won't be deterred strategically. Do we follow up or is that it? And how do we follow up if we do?

LA Ute
04-07-2017, 02:37 PM
The strike was the right decision and had to happen. I just enjoy the irony of Trump's postering, which most of the time is incoherent, impulsive, and designed for immeidate impact, regardless of the inconsistency down the road.

Trump is impulsiveness personified. It's maddening.

Rocker Ute
04-07-2017, 02:39 PM
I agree with you.

The strike was the right decision and had to happen. I just enjoy the irony of Trump's postering, which most of the time is incoherent, impulsive, and designed for immeidate impact, regardless of the inconsistency down the road.

the real question is what happens next, as everybody points out. Reports suggest the airfield is operating again, that most of the jets were moved before the strike, and that Assad won't be deterred strategically. Do we follow up or is that it? And how do we follow up if we do?

That is the concerning thing for me as well. I don't know that long term strategy is something Trump is known for and I bet he was hoping that this move would deter them and that would be it.

Rocker Ute
04-07-2017, 02:41 PM
Also, wasn't Russia supposed to have taken and destroyed all of Syria's chemical weapons? Shouldn't the be upset about this happening too instead of defending it?

Diehard Ute
04-07-2017, 02:44 PM
That is the concerning thing for me as well. I don't know that long term strategy is something Trump is known for and I bet he was hoping that this move would deter them and that would be it.

And if we're going to 'follow up' we should probably get congress on board.

I mean it was Trump himself who said any military action in Syria without congressional approval was a big mistake.


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LA Ute
04-07-2017, 02:58 PM
Looks like we did a lot of damage. Not surprising-- 59 Cruise missiles are going to leave a mark.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxnews.com/world/2017/04/07/syria-missile-attack-satellite-photos-show-major-damage-to-airfields.amp.html


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Rocker Ute
04-07-2017, 03:01 PM
And if we're going to 'follow up' we should probably get congress on board.

I mean it was Trump himself who said any military action in Syria without congressional approval was a big mistake.


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Agreed. In fact the ironic thing about Obama and Trump's propensity to execute law through executive order is it is also easily done. The trend of the White House to bypass congress is very problematic on a lot of levels.


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U-Ute
04-07-2017, 03:10 PM
Looks like we did a lot of damage. Not surprising-- 59 Cruise missiles are going to leave a mark.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxnews.com/world/2017/04/07/syria-missile-attack-satellite-photos-show-major-damage-to-airfields.amp.html


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The runways themselves are intact. That's the key thing. Mechanical items are easy to replace; runways are hard to build.

Diehard Ute
04-07-2017, 03:15 PM
The runways themselves are intact. That's the key thing. Mechanical items are easy to replace; runways are hard to build.

And the US likely knew in advance the runway wouldn't be damaged. The Tomahawk is not the weapon of choice to go after a hard target like a runway


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Dwight Schr-Ute
04-07-2017, 03:20 PM
850447821958467586


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LA Ute
04-07-2017, 05:07 PM
And the US likely knew in advance the runway wouldn't be damaged. The Tomahawk is not the weapon of choice to go after a hard target like a runway

It's possible this was more of a severe warning shot than an effort to do real damage. Who knows? The Donald likes to be unpredictable. There's a lot to be said for that, I think. (Nixon's motto was "Don't tell them what


The runways themselves are intact. That's the key thing. Mechanical items are easy to replace; runways are hard to build.

I don't know but I wonder if warplanes are easy to replace?

Diehard Ute
04-07-2017, 05:15 PM
It's possible this was more of a severe warning shot than an effort to do real damage. Who knows? The Donald likes to be unpredictable. There's a lot to be said for that, I think. (Nixon's motto was "Don't tell them what



I don't know but I wonder if warplanes are easy to replace?

Well it sounds like the planes were moved.

And that's one expensive warning shot.


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LA Ute
04-07-2017, 05:26 PM
It looks like the way people here are seeing this attack pretty much breaks down along partisan lines. The Godless Communist Fellow-Travelers are skeptical and critical, while the Truly Enlightened and Patriotic are supportive.

pangloss
04-07-2017, 05:55 PM
Let's compare:

Bill Clinton destroys an aspirin factory in the middle of being impeached, thus inspiring the movie "Wag the Dog."

...

Just to add some meat on that slander.

In August 1998 al-Qaida (remember them?) bombed two US embassies in Africa killing 224 people. The CIA was able to pin blame on bin Laden. President Clinton ordered an attack on two sites - one in Afghanistan where they hoped bin Laden was and one in Sudan at an al Qaida / bin Laden owned pharma plant.

The intel on the Sudan site wasn't accurate, they thought VX nerve gas was being produced there, and the DOD target recommendation to the president was, as a result, bad.

The CIA had intel that bin Laden and a bunch of his followers were meeting there on Aug 20. They apparently just missed killing bin Laden. Clownish republicans looking for political gain, like Orrin Hatch, accused Clinton of wagging the dog.

Operation Infinite Reach (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Infinite_Reach)

LA Ute
04-07-2017, 06:58 PM
Just to add some meat on that slander.

In August 1998 al-Qaida (remember them?) bombed two US embassies in Africa killing 224 people. The CIA was able to pin blame on bin Laden. President Clinton ordered an attack on two sites - one in Afghanistan where they hoped bin Laden was and one in Sudan at an al Qaida / bin Laden owned pharma plant.

The intel on the Sudan site wasn't accurate, they thought VX nerve gas was being produced there, and the DOD target recommendation to the president was, as a result, bad.

The CIA had intel that bin Laden and a bunch of his followers were meeting there on Aug 20. They apparently just missed killing bin Laden. Clownish republicans looking for political gain, like Orrin Hatch, accused Clinton of wagging the dog.

Operation Infinite Reach (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Infinite_Reach)

Actually, it was the sainted Arlen Spector who simply noted the timing of that attack. Besides, it is nearly impossible to slander a sitting POTUS. :p

Devildog
04-07-2017, 11:53 PM
Well... the delusional dipshit pussies are out of power... but they are are still as wrong as ever. Queue Chuck Schumer (as he is functionally all that is left)... That fawkin moron is as big a f***tard as exists in the country... Please follow that idiot you crazy libs... please. Well, I guess you can hook up with Nancy Pelosi instead...You hate Trump... really? Trump is your target? You believe your own opinion so intelligent... Keep telling yourselves that Obama delayed Iranian nuclear bombs... It is the same delusion. Your beloved... achieved dick internationally. Worst and weakest president ever. Damn I hope Trump can unfawk the mess Obama made. Chemical weapons 100 percent out of Syria Kerry?... well except for Sarin... I guess.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPwYZRaRT2w

LA Ute
04-08-2017, 08:16 AM
Jeffrey Goldberg:

The Obama Doctrine, R.I.P.

This is not an anti-Obama piece:

https://t.co/eI1A5a8FaE

Ma'ake
04-08-2017, 09:23 AM
I don't have a problem with the strike. It might lead to all kinds of other problems, but the images of those kids who were gassed, and the American military response, help counter what appeared to be a rapid decline in American moral leadership, offer a glimmer of hope that America is not going to retreat from the world, altogether.

McMaster asserting influence in the WH, along with Kushner, at the expense of Bannon (and possibly Priebus) - these are really good signs.

People who are impressed - or disgusted - by the Syria airstrikes need to remember that Trump really has no ideological framework he believes in (or really, understands). He is completely different than Reagan, in that regard.

Kushner and Ivanka picking up more power, with more of a centrist political ideology, could help limit the erosion likely to occur under a Bannump presidency.

LA Ute
04-08-2017, 09:30 AM
I don't have a problem with the strike. It might lead to all kinds of other problems, but the images of those kids who were gassed, and the American military response, help counter what appeared to be a rapid decline in American moral leadership, offer a glimmer of hope that America is not going to retreat from the world, altogether.

McMaster asserting influence in the WH, along with Kushner, at the expense of Bannon (and possibly Priebus) - these are really good signs.

People who are impressed - or disgusted - by the Syria airstrikes need to remember that Trump really has no ideological framework he believes in (or really, understands). He is completely different than Reagan, in that regard.

Kushner and Ivanka picking up more power, with more of a centrist political ideology, could help limit the erosion likely to occur under a Bannump presidency.

I'm actually encouraged by Bannon's demotion. He had no business being on the NSC. He also doesn't know how to negotiate, the one thing I'm sure Trump does understand. If Bannon's star is sinking, even a little bit, that's a good sign.

Devildog
04-08-2017, 10:52 AM
Damn... Watch this. The biased CNN anchor tried to derail this guy and she even featured Hillary... and still...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3V8aVzaQnqs

Rocker Ute
04-08-2017, 01:03 PM
Damn... Watch this. The biased CNN anchor tried to derail this guy and she even featured Hillary... and still...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3V8aVzaQnqs

Yeah I agree it seems pretty lame to try and turn this into an attack on his Muslim ban with a guy who has nothing to do with it. Regardless of speculations about motivation, or actual damage done etc, I am guessing we won't be seeing any chemical weapons being used again in Syria and no matter your viewpoint that is a very very good thing.

LA Ute
04-08-2017, 01:25 PM
Yeah I agree it seems pretty lame to try and turn this into an attack on his Muslim ban with a guy who has nothing to do with it. Regardless of speculations about motivation, or actual damage done etc, I am guessing we won't be seeing any chemical weapons being used again in Syria and no matter your viewpoint that is a very very good thing.

I was just thinking about this and it occurred to me that if we had wanted to obliterate that entire airfield, we could have done so. So there was some restraint and strategic thought that went into this. I hope Trump is listening to McMaster. It looks like he is.

Devildog
04-08-2017, 01:38 PM
I was just thinking about this and it occurred to me that if we had wanted to obliterate that entire airfield, we could have done so. So there was some restraint and strategic thought that went into this. I hope Trump is listening to McMaster. It looks like he is.

Of course he is listening to McMaster, and to Mattis and Dunford. You sound like you are are genuinely surprised. You might not be as intelligent or as correct in your assessments of Trump as you believe you are.

Rocker Ute
04-08-2017, 01:48 PM
Of course he is listening to McMaster, and to Mattis and Dunford. You sound like you are are genuinely surprised. You might not be as intelligent or as correct in your assessments of Trump as you believe you are.

When has Trump demonstrated he listens to anyone? That's kind of his calling card isn't it?

Devildog
04-08-2017, 01:51 PM
When has Trump demonstrated he listens to anyone? That's kind of his calling card isn't it?

You are as guilty of seeing only what you want to as I am. However, I for one am glad that he has surrounded himself with experienced and intelligent warrior advisers. Obama never would have had the stones... dude was weak through and through.

http://americanmilitarynews.com/2017/04/check-aftermath-u-s-missile-strikes-syria/?utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=alt&utm_source=militarymemes

LA Ute
04-08-2017, 01:56 PM
Of course he is listening to McMaster, and to Mattis and Dunford. You sound like you are are genuinely surprised. You might not be as intelligent or as correct in your assessments of Trump as you believe you are.

Hey, take a compliment for your guy.


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Devildog
04-08-2017, 02:00 PM
Hey, take a compliment for your guy.


We don't need your faint praise. You're lucky you are wrong so much. :D

pangloss
04-08-2017, 02:01 PM
Actually, it was the sainted Arlen Spector who simply noted the timing of that attack. Besides, it is nearly impossible to slander a sitting POTUS. :pYou're right, my memory is wrong.

LA Ute
04-08-2017, 06:17 PM
"Here is your narrative in the New York Times before Thursday night:

C.I.A. Had Evidence of Russian Effort to Help Trump Earlier Than Believed

Here is your narrative in the New York Times after:

Syria Strike Puts U.S. Relationship With Russia at Risk"

http://donsurber.blogspot.com/2017/04/nyt-does-180-on-russia.html?spref=tw&m=1

tooblue
04-08-2017, 06:52 PM
"Here is your narrative in the New York Times before Thursday night:

C.I.A. Had Evidence of Russian Effort to Help Trump Earlier Than Believed

Here is your narrative in the New York Times after:

Syria Strike Puts U.S. Relationship With Russia at Risk"

http://donsurber.blogspot.com/2017/04/nyt-does-180-on-russia.html?spref=tw&m=1

I dislike Trump for a variety of reasons, but seriously. If this is the path we are walking, then are we also to believe that the Russians goaded Assad into using chemical weapons, so that Trump could more justifiably launch a missile strike? What is real versus fake news? It's hard to tell, especially when 'supposed' legitimate news sources act no differently than truthers:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-air-strikes-syria-vladimir-putin-kill-narrative-russia-us-relations-set-piece-chris-a7672256.html

Chris Mathews is becoming the liberal Alex Jones. What a moron.

Devildog
04-09-2017, 01:19 AM
I dislike Trump for a variety of reasons, but seriously. If this is the path we are walking, then are we also to believe that the Russians goaded Assad into using chemical weapons, so that Trump could more justifiably launch a missile strike? What is real versus fake news? It's hard to tell, especially when 'supposed' legitimate news sources act no differently than truthers:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-air-strikes-syria-vladimir-putin-kill-narrative-russia-us-relations-set-piece-chris-a7672256.html

Chris Mathews is becoming the liberal Alex Jones. What a moron.

Jesus Christ... conspiracy much? Damn.. goof.

concerned
04-09-2017, 06:19 AM
This is one of the things that concerns me about Trump. A week ago tillerson and haley said removing assad was not a priority. Yesterday and today Haley said it is. Is that a strategy change from Trump or an impulsive reaction. What happens the next time babies die, and the time after that and after that? Our response last week surely will trigger more provocation this week.
Do we do anything to effect regime change and what do we change it to? Is there or will there be a strategy?

Devildog
04-09-2017, 08:28 PM
http://i705.photobucket.com/albums/ww59/RuggedH2/trump_zpsrpbjolod.jpg (http://s705.photobucket.com/user/RuggedH2/media/trump_zpsrpbjolod.jpg.html)