United Air Lines

[LA Ute]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170411/f1855217eee70b4235bca49341160959.jpg

[SheeeeeUTE]

2181

[Diehard Ute]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170411/f1855217eee70b4235bca49341160959.jpg

Oh I figured Southwest would say "We only treat you like cattle before you board"


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[LA Ute]

Oh I figured Southwest would say "We only treat you like cattle before you board"


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Southwest is what it is, basically a flying bus service. I use Southwest all the time to get around California and the West for short flights up to 90 minutes or so. They're not perfect. But it is unimaginable that any Southwest employee would do what the United airlines folks did in yesterday's incident.

[Scratch]

I must not be a very good person because I have zero sympathy for this guy. Could United have handled it better? Absolutely, but they didn't really have that many options and I don't think that the way they chose to handle it was all that bad anyway.

[Two Utes]

I must not be a very good person because I have zero sympathy for this guy. Could United have handled it better? Absolutely, but they didn't really have that many options and I don't think that the way they chose to handle it was all that bad anyway.

Amen Scratch. I'll take it further. So, because he doesn't want to be inconvenienced in any way, he inconveniences all of the people on the plane who now have to get back off the plane and wait around for 3 hours. He also inconveniences all of the flyers in Louisville who need a crew that needed to get on that flight. All because he refuses to take a later flight. Then, when asked to leave he acts like a goddamned two year old and screams and holds on to his chair.

Imagine if every passenger acted like him. The airports would come to a stand still.

Every one of us has had to eat a shit sandwich on occasion while flying. I did it last week in Atlanta when my flight got cancelled. This guy is complete fucking turd.

United should have never let him on the plane in the first place and should have run its lottery before anybody got on. But it makes me sick to watch America feel sorry for this clown. When he was asked to get off, he should have gotten off. Every person on this site would have grumbled and then left the plane (just like the other passengers who were asked to leave, did). Because we are human beings.

The reality is, too many people are flying. Airlines overbook to make money which in turns keeps flight costs down. If we regulated this stuff, prices would go up. I'd still fly but many of the John Does who feel sorry for this guy would be priced out of flying.

Of course, today, we now learn that the docs is a convicted felon. How can you be surprised by this given his conduct?

[UtahsMrSports]

I must not be a very good person because I have zero sympathy for this guy. Could United have handled it better? Absolutely, but they didn't really have that many options and I don't think that the way they chose to handle it was all that bad anyway.

To each their own, I guess. To me, if you pay for a seat on an airplane, you should get to keep it (I know thats pretty radical!)

And could United have handled it better? A better question is what could they have realistically done worse? IMO, they should have upped their offer until they got enough bites. If they reached their maximum, and still no takers then you pay for your employees to ride there on Greyhound or buy a ticket on another airlines. The police here look like absolute goons and united looks even sillier.

In an oligopoly, I cant say ill never use united again, but i will do my best not to.

[Rocker Ute]

I guess for me -- even if I was flaming angry about getting bumped -- if a police officer came on the plane and told me I needed to get off, I would get off and then raise hell with United. We've all got our own methods I guess.

[Two Utes]

To each their own, I guess. To me, if you pay for a seat on an airplane, you should get to keep it (I know thats pretty radical!)

And could United have handled it better? A better question is what could they have realistically done worse? IMO, they should have upped their offer until they got enough bites. If they reached their maximum, and still no takers then you pay for your employees to ride there on Greyhound or buy a ticket on another airlines. The police here look like absolute goons and united looks even sillier.

In an oligopoly, I cant say ill never use united again, but i will do my best not to.

That's not the point. Of course, if you buy a ticket you should get to keep it. But if they say you have to leave, you need to leave. You can't act like a two year old and scream and hold onto you chair. Instead, you get off the goddamn plane and figure out your next option. That's what you would do and that's what I would do. Because we are adults.

And by the way, I hate United. I will never fly them if I can absolutely avoid it.

[Rocker Ute]

To each their own, I guess. To me, if you pay for a seat on an airplane, you should get to keep it (I know thats pretty radical!)

And could United have handled it better? A better question is what could they have realistically done worse? IMO, they should have upped their offer until they got enough bites. If they reached their maximum, and still no takers then you pay for your employees to ride there on Greyhound or buy a ticket on another airlines. The police here look like absolute goons and united looks even sillier.

In an oligopoly, I cant say ill never use united again, but i will do my best not to.

The challenge with flights is I think a lot of these airlines are dealing with razor sharp margins on certain flight routes and so they need to have a full flight and so they overbook. The question is would you be willing to pay an extra $30 a flight so they didn't overbook?

[Brian]

I'm told that the 37,000 word (per Anderson Cooper on CNN last night) contract you sign when you buy a ticket entitles the airline to give your seat to someone else.
I've never read it, and I never will. So, it may or may not be true. But, according to CNN, United has a legal right to re-accommodate anyone.

This past weekend my Friday flight from Eugene to Knoxville got messed up due to the weather problems, and I was going to have to spend 2 days, yes 2 days in Minneapolis. There were ZERO available flights on Saturday. I asked nicely if they could route me through SLC where I have family, which they did. So, I got a weekend with my parents and a few siblings. If you fly, crap happens. Smile and make the best of it.

[chrisrenrut]

Southwest is what it is, basically a flying bus service. I use Southwest all the time to get around California and the West for short flights up to 90 minutes or so. They're not perfect. But it is unimaginable that any Southwest employee would do what the United airlines folks did in yesterday's incident.

I think some people (not you, LA) forget that it was not United employees that physically removed the passenger, it was police/airport security. United is to blame for overbooking flights, but in reality, all airlines do this. They could have (and should have) continued to increase their offers to get volunteers, and the one big mistake they made was cutting that off too soon and deciding to go to assigning involuntary removal.

The thing that made this go viral is on the police/security. The extraneous facts, that this guy is a doctor, convicted felon, etc. is all fluff that doesn't matter in the least.

[DrumNFeather]

Does anyone really need to get to Louisville that badly? I don't think so.

[UtahsMrSports]

That's not the point. Of course, if you buy a ticket you should get to keep it. But if they say you have to leave, you need to leave. You can't act like a two year old and scream and hold onto you chair. Instead, you get off the goddamn plane and figure out your next option. That's what you would do and that's what I would do. Because we are adults.

And by the way, I hate United. I will never fly them if I can absolutely avoid it.

Serious question because I honestly dont know. What legal right do they have to boot paying customers in favor of united employees who they want to deadhead? i know there are some terms and conditions that have to do with overbooking but I just dont know the rules.

He may not have acted the way I would have, but I would hardly call what guy did to be wrong or throwing a tantrum.

The real imbeciles here are United.

[UtahsMrSports]

I'm told that the 37,000 word (per Anderson Cooper on CNN last night) contract you sign when you buy a ticket entitles the airline to give your seat to someone else.
I've never read it, and I never will. So, it may or may not be true. But, according to CNN, United has a legal right to re-accommodate anyone.

This past weekend my Friday flight from Eugene to Knoxville got messed up due to the weather problems, and I was going to have to spend 2 days, yes 2 days in Minneapolis. There were ZERO available flights on Saturday. I asked nicely if they could route me through SLC where I have family, which they did. So, I got a weekend with my parents and a few siblings. If you fly, crap happens. Smile and make the best of it.

Ah ok that makes sense. Well said.

[Brian]

Given the complexity of flight, it's amazing there aren't more problems than there are....

[UTEopia]

There were a lot of mistakes made on this and the way Airport Police handled the removal simply provided a visual that everyone is reacting to. Never board the plane until you have the seating figured out. A few years back, my wife and I were flying somewhere and we had an overbooked airplane. After making a number of offers and getting no takers, the gate person called about 20 names of people on the flight to meet with the gate person. He then explained that they were overbooked by 4 seats and as there were not takers, the policy was to identify those who were flying on the least expensive ticket and explain that if there were no volunteers, 4 would be selected by random from the 20 people he had identified. He upped the offer from $400 to $600 and a couple of people bit. My wife and I looked around and decided of the people standing there, we would be better able to handle the delay than the others and decided we would wait. It was a relatively short wait (3 hours or so). I felt that the gate person handled a tough situation about as well as it could be handled.

[Two Utes]

Given the complexity of flight, it's amazing there aren't more problems than there are....

And I would argue strenuously that there aren't more problems because most of us behave somewhat reasonably when this stuff happens to us, unlike the good doc.

[LA Ute]

Lots of smart posts from experienced fliers here. My take on this:

1. It's a PR disaster that United made worse than it already was by the huffy, tin-eared way they responded.

2. The passenger behaved like an idiot. I'm embarrassed for him. Unfortunately for United, people have sided with him because the airline industry is widely reviled, fairly or not (I fly a lot and personally I find it pretty easy to navigate the system, but doing so requires patience and the ability to be resigned to one's fate). On top of that, United has a bad reputation for rude employees. I won't fly UA unless I absolutely have to, for that very reason, even though I once had a zillion frequent flyer miles with them.

3. UA and other airlines might think about a policy change. With more flexibility in extreme situations like this, they ought to be able to up their compensation offer until someone takes it. I'm not sure that would pencil out for them, though -- people would quickly take advantage and extort large sums out of them.

This will be a business school case study some day just like the Tylenol poisoning case from years ago now is.

[tooblue]

The airline's actions are not justifiable, except and only because there is an airline oligopoly. The more we just accept it, and behave the "right" way in such circumstances, the more complicit we all are. In a democratic society, where the free-market can't provide a solution for such situations. Greater protections and rights need to be secured for passengers, to the benefit of all.

While I agree, the 'victim' responded poorly to the situation. His behavior does not afford airport security the right to assault him. Yes, it was assault, as evidenced by the officer in question being suspended immediately for his actions.

The reality is, passengers do have rights, guaranteed by law. We are all simply not aware, because the airlines don't want us to be aware that when bumped etc. a bumped passenger is entitled to more compensation than is often indicated:

I got bumped from a flight. Then I sued:
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/04/11/opinions/i-got-bumped-from-a-flight-then-i-sued-opinion-stone/index.html

How one Delta airlines passenger turned multiple overbooked flights into $11,000:
http://globalnews.ca/news/3371450/how-one-delta-airlines-passenger-turned-multiple-overbooked-flights-into-11000/

Last month I flew to Utah for a weekend to visit my parents. I was joining my wife who was there on business. My original ticket was for a trip to Europe last summer for an artist residency. Unforeseen circumstances forced me to cancel that trip, leaving me with a voucher on KLM. At the threat of the voucher expiring, I was able to book a ticket and fly direct to SLC on Delta. It was not without difficulty.

Despite the fact Delta, KLM and Air France are partners, or rather a conglomerate; and despite the fact that, in north America, when you call to speak to a KLM ticketing agent, you are actually re-directed to Delta Airline agents. Delta refused to honour the voucher for their airline. I politely asked the Delta agent with the heavy southern accent to transfer me to an actual KLM agent. She did, kinda, transferring me to a French language only Air France ticketing agent. Fortunately, I speak French. After we laughed about the rigidity of her American counterparts, she booked me on a direct flight to SLC. I enjoyed a wonderful weekend at the foot of the Wasatch mountains and even found time to hang out with Two Utes.

Fast forward to my return flight home. Flying separate airlines, I left a day before my wife. Just prior to boarding at SLC International, the gate agent began broadcasting for passengers willing to accept a voucher for $400 and take a later flight. No takers. A few minutes later she upped the voucher to $600. Again no takers. Eventually, she got around to calling up passengers individually. I was first on the list. She explained that the airline did not anticipate a full flight and booked much of the cargo area for cartage. With a flight full of passengers, the plane would be overweight. She also indicated that she had a very important passenger who absolutely needed to get on that flight. A Delta frequent flier who was making a fuss because his "needs" were more important than everyone else's. Besides, she said we noticed you booked this flight via KLM, via Air France.

Never mind the value of my original ticket to Europe was much more expensive than the cost of the ticket I was flying on to SLC. Never mind they made me pay $300 to change that more expensive ticket for a less expensive ticket. They were now politely asking me to fly to Atlanta, stay the night at a hotel of their choosing and get home by 7:00 am the next day.

I looked at her and said: "I'll do it if you give me a $1000 voucher and put me on a direct flight tonight, on any which airline you like." She said: "I can't do that sir. The best I can do is give you $800." I asked if their was a direct flight to my destination the following morning. She looked it up and there was. I said: "I'll take the $800 and that flight." She agreed. Happily, I got to spend more time hanging out with my parents, Two Utes and even Mormon Red Death. Since then, I've learned I should've held out for the $1000 ... that's how much she was really allowed to give me.

[Mormon Red Death]

As much as the passenger acted like and infant and two utes and concerned points are valid lets not forget all the things that United airlines gets from the public. Publicly funded airports with publicly funded security and public funded traffic control. This isnt to mention the huge barriers to entry that with space at airports (by again government regulations) and such. They owe a paying customer and taxpayer (presumably) better. They should have upped the $ and if they are so worried that everyone will take advantage of that then simply dont overbook.

[Two Utes]

As much as the passenger acted like and infant and two utes and concerned points are valid lets not forget all the things that United airlines gets from the public. Publicly funded airports with publicly funded security and public funded traffic control. This isnt to mention the huge barriers to entry that with space at airports (by again government regulations) and such. They owe a paying customer and taxpayer (presumably) better. They should have upped the $ and if they are so worried that everyone will take advantage of that then simply dont overbook.

I never said passengers don't have rights. I would have sued their asses for my losses due to them making me go the next day had I been the doc. But you simply shouldn't get to act like a two year old because you didn't get your way. I'm not surprised it's coming out today the the doc is bad man. He's clearly an idiot.

[Diehard Ute]

I never said passengers don't have rights. I would have sued their asses for my losses due to them making me go the next day had I been the doc. But you simply shouldn't get to act like a two year old because you didn't get your way. I'm not surprised it's coming out today the the doc is bad man. He's clearly an idiot.

And he'd have a hard time winning a lawsuit for being forced to give up his seat (the physical removal is a different animal and I'm sure there's a legal case there)

As someone posted earlier, you give up your 'rights' when you buy that ticket. They can kick you off the plane. You agree to that when you buy. However if they force you to give up your seat the compensation for that is set by law. (Based on the hours you're delayed getting to your destination)




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[Sullyute]

Amen Scratch. I'll take it further. So, because he doesn't want to be inconvenienced in any way, he inconveniences all of the people on the plane who now have to get back off the plane and wait around for 3 hours. He also inconveniences all of the flyers in Louisville who need a crew that needed to get on that flight. All because he refuses to take a later flight. Then, when asked to leave he acts like a goddamned two year old and screams and holds on to his chair.

Imagine if every passenger acted like him. The airports would come to a stand still.

Every one of us has had to eat a shit sandwich on occasion while flying. I did it last week in Atlanta when my flight got cancelled. This guy is complete fucking turd.

United should have never let him on the plane in the first place and should have run its lottery before anybody got on. But it makes me sick to watch America feel sorry for this clown. When he was asked to get off, he should have gotten off. Every person on this site would have grumbled and then left the plane (just like the other passengers who were asked to leave, did). Because we are human beings.

The reality is, too many people are flying. Airlines overbook to make money which in turns keeps flight costs down. If we regulated this stuff, prices would go up. I'd still fly but many of the John Does who feel sorry for this guy would be priced out of flying.

Of course, today, we now learn that the docs is a convicted felon. How can you be surprised by this given his conduct?

I couldn't agree with two utes any more. Passenger got everything he deserved.

[Mormon Red Death]

I never said passengers don't have rights. I would have sued their asses for my losses due to them making me go the next day had I been the doc. But you simply shouldn't get to act like a two year old because you didn't get your way. I'm not surprised it's coming out today the the doc is bad man. He's clearly an idiot.

And I said you have valid points. The guy is an idiot. United should have some blame here as well for A) not training their people on how to deal with a situation B) Overbooking a flight.

[Diehard Ute]

And I said you have valid points. The guy is an idiot. United should have some blame here as well for A) not training their people on how to deal with a situation B) Overbooking a flight.

They're never going to stop overbooking.

They know how many people routinely no show flights and don't want to lose that revenue.

Of course this case is different in they weren't doing this because they had too many paying customers. They did it to move a flight crew.

My bigger question would be who trained airport security (they are called police but are not part of Chicago PD and are not armed)


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[Two Utes]

And I said you have valid points. The guy is an idiot. United should have some blame here as well for A) not training their people on how to deal with a situation B) Overbooking a flight.

There's actually a small part of me that admires the whole airline/flying process. it's dog eat dog and usually benefits the smarter more savvy person. For instance, if you know what you are doing on Southwest you are able to easily get better boarding passes to get better seats. The savvy smart person benefits. The dumb, lazy ones sit in the middle seat in the back.

Delta and the other airlines reward customers who use their services more. The more money you make the airline, the more they reward you--as it should be. If you understand the system, even if you don't have a ton of priority, you can still get a fairly decent seat. If you want a complete discount with no frills whatsoever or you are just lazy and dumb, you get the shittiest seats.

If there is an event that causes delays and cancellations, airports evolve into scenes from the Walking Dead (you should have seen Atlanta last week). The smart, savvy person handles the maze and hassle much better than the hoards and usually benefits accordingly.

It's dog eat dog. How you handle it says a lot about you.

[sancho]

The dumb, lazy ones sit in the middle seat in the back.


That's me! I only fly about once every other year, though.

[tooblue]

I couldn't agree with two utes any more. Passenger got everything he deserved.

Investors don't agree with you ... 1.4 billion dollar stock drop:

http://fortune.com/2017/04/11/united-airlines-stock-drop/

And now, United Airlines doesn't agree:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dr-gridlock/wp/2017/04/11/amid-pr-fiasco-over-dragged-passenger-united-ceo-defends-his-crew/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_no-name%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.64399f9c1f33

[chrisrenrut]

Investors don't agree with you ... 1.4 billion dollar stock drop:

http://fortune.com/2017/04/11/united-airlines-stock-drop/

And now, United Airlines doesn't agree:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dr-gridlock/wp/2017/04/11/amid-pr-fiasco-over-dragged-passenger-united-ceo-defends-his-crew/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_no-name%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.64399f9c1f33

There is plenty of blame and punishment to go around.

United is to be blamed for it's policies and not increasing their offer for volunteers. Their punishment is a PR nightmare, and dropping stock prices (but they'll bounce back).

The security/police is to be blamed for their brutal enforcement techniques. They have already suspended one of their personnel.

The passenger is to be blamed for behaving like a ornery 4 year old. His punishment in addition to his bloody face, is his reputation is being smeared all over social media (for both being petulant and kind of a scumbag).

[tooblue]

There is plenty of blame and punishment to go around.

United is to be blamed for it's policies and not increasing their offer for volunteers. Their punishment is a PR nightmare, and dropping stock prices (but they'll bounce back).

The security/police is to be blamed for their brutal enforcement techniques. They have already suspended one of their personnel.

The passenger is to be blamed for behaving like a ornery 4 year old. His punishment in addition to his bloody face, is his reputation is being smeared all over social media (for both being petulant and kind of a scumbag).

I don't disagree that the man behaved poorly, but we are starting to get more of the story. United didn't give him all of the information, at least according to witnesses on the plane:

"The man who ended up bloodied and screaming Sunday night had initially agreed to get off the plane, passenger Jayse Anspach said. "Him and his wife, they volunteered initially," Anspach said. "But once they found out that the next flight wasn't until (Monday) at 2:30 p.m., he said, 'I can't do that. I gotta be at work.' So he sat back down." The harder the officers tried to get the man to leave, the harder the man insisted he stay.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/11/travel/united-customer-dragged-off-overbooked-flight/index.html

[LA Ute]

I am not an aviation law expert so I'll post this info from an attorney friend of mine for what it is worth:


The myth that United complied with the regulations for overbooking through involuntary denial of boarding procedures is debunked by the lawyer who posted to Reddit. Obviously the attorney is familiar with aviation law.

This myth that passengers don't have rights needs to go away, ASAP. You are dead wrong when saying that United legally kicked him off the plane.

1. First of all, it's airline spin to call this an overbooking. The statutory provision granting them the ability to deny boarding is about "OVERSALES", specifically defines as booking more reserved confirmed seats than there are available. This is not what happened. They did not overbook the flight; they had a fully booked flight, and not only did everyone already have a reserved confirmed seat, they were all sitting in them. The law allowing them to denying boarding in the event of an oversale does not apply.

2. Even if it did apply, the law is unambiguously clear that airlines have to give preference to everyone with reserved confirmed seats when choosing to involuntarily deny boarding. They have to always choose the solution that will affect the least amount of reserved confirmed seats. This rule is straightforward, and United makes very clear in their own contract of carriage that employees of their own or of other carriers may be denied boarding without compensation because they do not have reserved confirmed seats. On its face, it's clear that what they did was illegal-- they gave preference to their employees over people who had reserved confirmed seats, in violation of 14 CFR 250.2a.

3. Furthermore, even if you try and twist this into a legal application of 250.2a and say that United had the right to deny him boarding in the event of an overbooking; they did NOT have the right to kick him off the plane. Their contract of carriage highlights there is a complete difference in rights after you've boarded and sat on the plane, and Rule 21 goes over the specific scenarios where you could get kicked off. NONE of them apply here. He did absolutely nothing wrong and shouldn't have been targeted. He's going to leave with a hefty settlement after this fiasco.

[U-Ute]

My experience from a couple of years ago when I took 2 of my boys to Eugene for the 62-20 game.

They overbooked the flight back to SLC and asked for people to be bumped, and then randomly bumped us.

We had to take the next flight out which was the next morning.

I found out the airlines have a deal with the FAA on overbooking.

If your next flight lands one, two, or four hours after your original flight lands, they have to give you 2x, 3x, or 4x the cost of your original 1 way ticket price as a fine as well as a free flight.

This is why they offer you $200-$500 in vouchers. It ends up being cheaper than the fine.

Since the next flight for us didn't go out until the next morning, and the 1 way ticket price was roughly $300, we got 3 checks for $1200 (the 4x fine). It worked out well for us since we were staying with my aunt and uncle in Corvallis, so we just went and spent the day with them and flew out the next morning.

The whole trip originally cost me about $2000 for flights for the 3 of us, so Delta basically paid me me a couple thousand dollars to pay for me and my boys to fly up and watch Utah kick Oregon's ass and spend the weekend with family.

EDIT: That's also why they start with the cheap seats since the fine is based on your ticket price. These are the things you find out when you don't freak out at the counter people since they don't have any control over this.

EDIT2: The reason they have this deal is because a certain percentage of people don't show up for their flights, allowing them to maximize their seat usage. We don't hear about how many people don't get bumped because someone didn't show up. It must work even with the 4x fine schedule since they do overbook on a regular basis. It blows my mind that people don't show up for their flights.

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[Sullyute]

It blows my mind that people don't show up for their flights.

I may or may not have shown up for multiple flights. If you have ever done hidden city ticketing then it is common to not show up. (It is also a violation of the contract of carriage)

[hostile]

I may or may not have shown up for multiple flights. If you have ever done hidden city ticketing then it is common to not show up. (It is also a violation of the contract of carriage)

Along those lines I recently ran into a co-worker at the airport. He and his wife had bought tickets to Paris for $400. The deal, however, was only for a flight originating in Denver with a stopover in SLC. Since they live in Salt Lake he asked the airline if they could just catch the flight in SLC. He was informed that the deal was only for the flight from Denver. So, he bout a cheap ($39) one-way ticket to Denver on another carrier and then got on a plane back to SLC. On the return trip from Paris they just won't show up to get back on the plane after the layover.

[Two Utes]

That's not the point. Of course, if you buy a ticket you should get to keep it. But if they say you have to leave, you need to leave. You can't act like a two year old and scream and hold onto you chair. Instead, you get off the goddamn plane and figure out your next option. That's what you would do and that's what I would do. Because we are adults.

And by the way, I hate United. I will never fly them if I can absolutely avoid it.


And of course Adam Carolla agrees with me.

Adam Carolla‏Verified account @adamcarolla (https://twitter.com/adamcarolla) 15h15 hours ago (https://twitter.com/adamcarolla/status/852323861018189825)More



Adam Carolla Retweeted Wayne
That crazy pussy should have got off the plane the 26th time he was told. Mistakes are made all the time but you must comply.




Whether good or bad, I think he and I have some cosmos connection.

[Two Utes]

This is dead on 100%

https://danwetzelsports.tumblr.com/post/159563879172/as-this-blog-has-long-noted-i-travel-a-lot-for


Don't get me started on the dog craze at airports these days.

[tooblue]

This is dead on 100%

https://danwetzelsports.tumblr.com/post/159563879172/as-this-blog-has-long-noted-i-travel-a-lot-for


Don't get me started on the dog craze at airports these days.

This is just to offer up an alternate viewpoint, that the passenger isn't a villain or the village idiot. Just a guy who made some poor decisions in life and ran afoul of the law. But also a guy who escaped Vietnam by boat in 1975 and has five kids, per this article:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/apr/14/david-dao-united-passenger-injuries-surgery-lawsuit

He's a much more sympathetic character than many might want to admit. More importantly, some of what is highlighted by Dan Wetzel's article could be solved by the airlines themselves. When people are treated like herded animals, they often end up acting like herded animals.

[Two Utes]

This is just to offer up an alternate viewpoint, that the passenger isn't a villain or the village idiot. Just a guy who made some poor decisions in life and ran afoul of the law. But also a guy who escaped Vietnam by boat in 1975 and has five kids, per this article:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/apr/14/david-dao-united-passenger-injuries-surgery-lawsuit

He's a much more sympathetic character than many might want to admit. More importantly, some of what is highlighted by Dan Wetzel's article could be solved by the airlines themselves. When people are treated like herded animals, they often end up acting like herded animals.

I don't care what his background is, he acted like a two year old.

When you are at an airport, there is no way around being herded like animals--except to get rid of a bunch of passengers. The only way you do that is going back to "Mad Men" times where only the elite fly. To be honest, I may not mind that, but most of the folks defending this guy likely would.

I Love the "solve this problem and make it better", but make sure it doesn't cost me any more to do it attitude.

Bottom line is, most people who fly a lot think the guy acted like a two year old. Those who are experienced know this shit happens and each of us takes our turn dealing with it, like humans, not like two year olds.

But I'm beating a dead horse. I'm done with the topic. Fire away, but I won't respond.

[sancho]

This is dead on 100%

https://danwetzelsports.tumblr.com/post/159563879172/as-this-blog-has-long-noted-i-travel-a-lot-for


Don't get me started on the dog craze at airports these days.

I'm with you on the dogs. The rest is whiny, though. Someone drinking coffee? Really? The drink cart is a major annoyance? Dan needs some Feng Shui in his life.

How does the person who lowers his seat into your lap not on this list? Airline seats should not recline.

[tooblue]

But I'm beating a dead horse. I'm done with the topic. Fire away, but I won't respond.

Of course you won't. Two year olds gotta do what two year olds gotta do ... lol

[LA Ute]

Competitors jumping on the opportunity to exploit United's screw-up:

Delta OKs offers of up to $9,950 to flyers who give up seats
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/delta-oks-offers-9950-flyers-give-seats-46808209

[mUUser]

This is dead on 100%

https://danwetzelsports.tumblr.com/post/159563879172/as-this-blog-has-long-noted-i-travel-a-lot-for


Don't get me started on the dog craze at airports these days.

Fun list. I've been guilty of bringing dinner on an airplane. And.....huge thumbs up on Adam Carolla -- the guy nails it 90 percent of the time.


I'm with you on the dogs. The rest is whiny, though. Someone drinking coffee? Really? The drink cart is a major annoyance? Dan needs some Feng Shui in his life.

How does the person who lowers his seat into your lap not on this list? Airline seats should not recline.

I think I'm your Bizarro Jerry. If I want to recline 2 degrees, I'll do it and not apologize -- now THAT'S whining.

Personally, I don't bring my dogs with me to stores or airports etc..... but, I'm betting I'd prefer bumping into your dogs over you two so bring em along. :o In fact, if every store I shopped at had 100 English Bulldogs running free, my shopping experience would improve a million-fold. Dogs are awesome. People.....not so much.

[Rocker Ute]

Fun list. I've been guilty of bringing dinner on an airplane. And.....huge thumbs up on Adam Carolla -- the guy nails it 90 percent of the time.



I think I'm your Bizarro Jerry. If I want to recline 2 degrees, I'll do it and not apologize -- now THAT'S whining.

Personally, I don't bring my dogs with me to stores or airports etc..... but, I'm betting I'd prefer bumping into your dogs over you two so bring em along. :o In fact, if every store I shopped at had 100 English Bulldogs running free, my shopping experience would improve a million-fold. Dogs are awesome. People.....not so much.

At 6'3" my knees sort of fit behind the seat when it is upright. If someone reclines it makes the flight nearly unbearable as my legs go numb because I can't move them and the chair is pressed into them the whole time.

I'll typically sit down and jam my knees against the back of the seat so when the chump sits down in front of me and tries to recline he'll think the button is broken. Nothing brings me joy quite like watching a guy bang back in his chair or rock back and forth trying to get it to budge and then giving up. I had a guy once nearly have a conniption when he thought his seat was broken. He was loud and smelled bad.

I'm watering down how I really feel, but people who recline on a plane are the worst people on earth.




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[LA Ute]

Airline Apologizes For Strapping Man To Roof Of Plane Due To Oversold Flight (http://thedailystooge.com/airline-straps-man-to-roof/)
2183

[hostile]

http://www.sltrib.com/news/5186614-155/united-boots-utah-couple-traveling-to
Couple removed (peacefully) for allegedly sitting in the wrong seats. They were flying to their wedding on Costa Rica.

[tooblue]

I agree that many passengers these days act like idiots and are oblivious to their behaviour. But the airlines must shoulder much of blamed for a lot of what is going on:

http://time.com/4751475/american-airlines-video-flight-attendant-suspended/?xid=homepage

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/22/us/american-airlines-video-confrontation-trnd/

[U-Ute]

Airline Apologizes For Strapping Man To Roof Of Plane Due To Oversold Flight (http://thedailystooge.com/airline-straps-man-to-roof/)
2183

Better than middle seat


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[Rocker Ute]

Better than middle seat


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I love the middle seat because then I have TWO people to talk to the whole time!


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[U-Ute]

I love the middle seat because then I have TWO people to talk to the whole time!


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I prefer to think of them as left AND right pillows


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[LA Ute]

https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/TxNrizGdhtY?vq=hd720&rel=0&showinfo=0&start=0&end=

[U-Ute]

https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/TxNrizGdhtY?vq=hd720&rel=0&showinfo=0&start=0&end=

Southwest has had some of the best pre-flight checks. I almost look forward to them. It is usually the best part of the whole experience.

We had one on Delta on our flight to Hawaii where they used a video on the seat instead. It was hilarious.

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[tooblue]

It's not United, but certainly not unrelated:

NAACP warns black passengers about traveling with American Airlines

http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/25/news/companies/naacp-travel-advisory-american-airlines/index.html

[Applejack]

It's not United, but certainly not unrelated:

NAACP warns black passengers about traveling with American Airlines

http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/25/news/companies/naacp-travel-advisory-american-airlines/index.html

Toolblue! So nice of you to have joined us.

Have you caught any games up in Canada this year? I'm sure the ASU games was on every station up there.