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Tacoma Ute
02-28-2013, 08:30 PM
Are they making enough progress?

DrumNFeather
02-28-2013, 08:58 PM
6 wins in year one. 11 so far in year two. Let's say they finish with 12 wins (oregon st.). Can they make another 6 win improvement in 2013-14? I'm not sure. I'd put it more at 4 additional wins next year with anything more than that being a pleasant surprise. Year four of the K era though should see somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 wins if he's recruited well enough with Loveridge and Taylor as Juniors.

Jarid in Cedar
02-28-2013, 09:01 PM
If I look just at the record, I feel ok with where we are at. But watching us squander close games, makes me feel that we have underachieved overall.

LA Ute
02-28-2013, 09:39 PM
I'm not terribly freaked out, just depressed. I'm wondering what y'all think: should we be concerned that we are not seeing more steady progress? I don't think it's realistic to expect a great deal of progress in a single season, but there ought to be some measurable progress. Have we had that his year? I'm talking about from the first PAC-12 game through tonight. Are we better? Seriously wondering.

On an individual level, Brandon Taylor has improved. So has Washburn. Who else?

SoCalPat
02-28-2013, 10:14 PM
I'm not terribly freaked out, just depressed. I'm wondering what y'all think: should we be concerned that we are not seeing more steady progress? I don't think it's realistic to expect a great deal of progress in a single season, but there ought to be some measurable progress. Have we had that his year? Seriously wondering.

On an individual level, Brandon Taylor has improved. So has Washburn. Who else?

I'm amazed at how Utah fans continue to spit into the wind with this mindset. I can't tell if it's due to self-loathing or willful ignorance. Arizona State has already doubled its win total this year and is a fringe NCAA team that will probably get to 25 wins via the NIT. USC has gone from one win to 8 in league play. If it manages to get to .500, it will likely triple its win total from last year via the CBI. It's not realistic to expect huge jumps? These examples are just from one league. It's happening all around us. Hell, I'm not even insisting on an NCAA bid being a possibility this year, but damn was it really asking too much to get double-digit wins against Division I teams?

Maybe it's not realistic, but that shouldn't keep people from thinking that it could or should happen. This team has played well enough to be over .500 and get some kind of postseason bid. Let's quit pretending this season hasn't been disappointing by placing imaginary restrictions on what this team could or couldn't do.

LA Ute
02-28-2013, 11:08 PM
I'm amazed at how Utah fans continue to spit into the wind with this mindset. I can't tell if it's due to self-loathing or willful ignorance....

Just a note, and I am sure this is not the first time you've been told: When a fan tosses out a sincere question to other fans who share the same interest, it doesn't add to the discussion if you belittle the question and attack the questioner. It just makes you look like a jackass.

Now, lest you repulse anyone from adding to the thread, I'll repeat and elaborate on my question: Have we seen improvement from the first PAC-12 game this season to the present? I am worried that there isn't any improvement to speak of and wondered what others thought. My question assumes that Krysko, Connor and Co. are justified in saying 2012-2013 is really Year One of the rebuild. Assuming that is true, shouldn't we expect to see more measurable progress? (In that light, comparisons to programs like ASU, while interesting, don't really address my question.) It seems to me that this team is playing no better right now as it was at the first of the conference schedule. What do the rest of you think? Is there a pony in there somewhere?

USS Utah
02-28-2013, 11:34 PM
The state of Utah basketball is that it has improved over last year (how that team won six games is still somewhat astonishing). Unfortunately for Utah, the rest of the Pac-12 has also improved over last year (Pat has already noted the improvement of ASU and USC). This is not unlike what we saw during football season, only the basketball Utes clearly took a step forward while the football Utes took a step or two back.

We knew this wasn't going to be a quick rebuild. We knew we were going to need some patience. If you didn't know that you were in denial. Losing stinks, be it close or not, or really not, but take a deep breath and back away from the ledge.

hardcoreUTE
02-28-2013, 11:38 PM
It seems to me that this team is playing no better right now as it was at the first of the conference schedule.

I think there's actually been regression since the first of conference play. A month ago Utah was playing wire to wire it seemed, now as we saw tonight, if a team goes on a run they shut down. Terrible second half team that seems to just give up. This last part of the season has been very disappointing.

Jarid in Cedar
03-01-2013, 12:04 AM
I think there's actually been regression since the first of conference play. A month ago Utah was playing wire to wire it seemed, now as we saw tonight, if a team goes on a run they shut down. Terrible second half team that seems to just give up. This last part of the season has been very disappointing.

I agree with this. After the non conference and even after the Arizona road trip, there was a feeling they would make a sold step forward. But we have been treading water as other teams move forward. We have no wins vs the lower third of the conference. That isn't going to move us forward.

The offense has obviously been the culprit, and some of that is personnel. Teams have learned that they can easily tap or guards and force the offense to the corners and towards the timeline. Yet, the guards continually try to dribble around the double team, and right into the places the defense wants to two them.

It is frustrating to watch

Rocker Ute
03-01-2013, 03:44 AM
Unfortunately, losing begets losing. I've been on both wildly successful teams, and dreadfully awful teams (including one that was as horrible as Utah was last year and then the next year we went undefeated). I can attest to how hard it is to show up and battle when you keep losing. My guess is that this team is at that point.

A major problem with this team, even with its wins, is it goes through some sort of massive shooting drought each game. When that happens I tend to think it has become something psychological at that point.

Now as far as getting better, I think overall the team has probably not gotten better, but individually they have. Washburn and Taylor are two already mentioned, but I also think that Jeremy Olsen continues to improve and Jordan Loveridge who seems to disappear at times during games has also shown that he is developing some pretty phenomenal D1 maturity out there. He definitely doesn't play like a freshman.

However, on the other side, the seeming regression of Bachynski, and the puzzling struggles of Glen Dean leave me concerned that maybe Kodiak is putting too much pressure on these kids and turning them into head cases.

I am hoping that the Utes will add some fresh guys that can provide a winning spark. My guess is that had we somehow gutted out even a couple of those early on close wins we would have had an entirely different season.

1MNUte
03-01-2013, 07:05 AM
I agree with your statement about being depressed. That is exactly what I was thinking as the team had a near 8 minute scoring drought last night, "this is depressing." I found it interesting that the announcers pointed out that the Utes lead the league in scoring defense. Unfortunately, defense isn't going to win the championship in our case. I have always felt that most any player can play defense and rebound if the desire and determination is there. credit coach K and his staff for instilling this. However, even with all the desire in the world, not every player can score.

I am depressed because the team can be so anemic offensively, but I am encouraged at the defensive and rebounding improvement. I believe this improvement can be directly attributed to the coaching staff and their abilities. They are doing a good job.

So I will continue to watch and hope. Even when my wife asks me why I bother.

Sent from my SGH-T769 using Tapatalk 2

SeattleUte
03-01-2013, 07:12 AM
Now's not the best time to judge this team or this coach. The last two games were unwinnable. Either Cal or Colorado has the horses and coaching horsepower to win the conference with some favorable bounces. The coaching is superb and the teams are athletically gifted. We were on the road and we already stole one from Colorado.

The next four games will be interesting. We have an outside chance against Stanford; let's see how they come back after tonight, and the debacle in Salt Lake. Oregon State is tied for us for next to last. Oregon is playing above its head, we match up okay against the Ducks, and waht a great opportunity to spoil. The tournament will be on a neutral court and crazy things happen in tournaments.

Mormon Red Death
03-01-2013, 07:16 AM
Now's not the best time to judge this team or this coach. The last two games were unwinnable. Either Cal or Colorado has the horses and coaching horsepower to win the conference with some favorable bounces. The coaching is superb and the teams are athletically gifted. We were on the road and we already stole one from Colorado.

The next four games will be interesting. We have an outside chance against Stanford; let's see how they come back after tonight, and the debacle in Salt Lake. Oregon State is tied for us for next to last. Oregon is playing above its head, we match up okay against the Ducks, and waht a great opportunity to spoil. The tournament will be on a neutral court and crazy things happen in tournaments.

Have you even been watching this team? Utah matches up horribly with Cal and Stanford. It will be another 20 point blowout on Saturday. Your point however is good about not judging this team on these two games. I think the best situation we could get would be for ASU to fall to 6 and we finish 11.

Applejack
03-01-2013, 07:26 AM
This Utah team is still not very talented. I am hopeful that Delon Wright is good enough to steal the starting pg spot from Taylor next year. I like Taylor, but his size and lack of consistent shot are serious limitations in a league of length and athleticism.

The Utes have one serious chance for another win this year: OSU. They had better show up for that one.

DrumNFeather
03-01-2013, 07:32 AM
Have you even been watching this team? Utah matches up horribly with Cal and Stanford. It will be another 20 point blowout on Saturday. Your point however is good about not judging this team on these two games. I think the best situation we could get would be for ASU to fall to 6 and we finish 11.

I agree...whether 6-11 or 7-10, ASU is who we want.

LA Ute
03-01-2013, 07:33 AM
This Utah team is still not very talented. I am hopeful that Delon Wright is good enough to steal the starting pg spot from Taylor next year. I like Taylor, but his size and lack of consistent shot are serious limitations in a league of length and athleticism.

Bingo. Watching the game up close and in person last night (something I've only been able to do once during the conference season) I was struck by how tiny Taylor and Dean (and even Dubois) looked out on the floor, compared to the Cal players they were up against. I won't even talk about speed and quickness. We were just outmanned, plain and simple.

OrangeUte
03-01-2013, 07:42 AM
Bingo. Watching the game up close and in person last night (something I've only been able to do once during the conference season) I was struck by how tiny Taylor and Dean (and even Dubois) looked out on the floor, compared to the Cal players they were up against. I won't even talk about speed and quickness. We were just outmanned, plain and simple.

I have been pro dean and Taylor bc I felt their quickness and speed offset their lack of length. But, last night, the size and speed combination of Cal's guards really showed that I may have misjudged their value in being small and shifty and also good ball handlers.

Taylor has a lot of upside. If he could consistently score 12 points and dish out 9-12 assists, we would be a much better team. His shooting is just so erratic - but then again that has plagued the whole team.

My big Xmas wish right now is that Bachynski figures his head issues out. He realizes that he is the heir to the middle for the next 3 years, and uses these next games to really focus on sending a message that Utah nasketball isn't planning on staying in the cellar for long. He has the pedigree, the size and strength, and I think the right demeanor to lead a team.

SoCalPat
03-01-2013, 08:40 AM
Just a note, and I am sure this is not the first time you've been told: When a fan tosses out a sincere question to other fans who share the same interest, it doesn't add to the discussion if you belittle the question and attack the questioner. It just makes you look like a jackass.

Now, lest you repulse anyone from adding to the thread, I'll repeat and elaborate on my question: Have we seen improvement from the first PAC-12 game this season to the present? I am worried that there isn't any improvement to speak of and wondered what others thought. My question assumes that Krysko, Connor and Co. are justified in saying 2012-2013 is really Year One of the rebuild. Assuming that is true, shouldn't we expect to see more measurable progress? (In that light, comparisons to programs like ASU, while interesting, don't really address my question.) It seems to me that this team is playing no better right now as it was at the first of the conference schedule. What do the rest of you think? Is there a pony in there somewhere?

I figured repeating ad nauseaum same thing over and over again would achieve the same goal of jackassedry from my end. My apologies. Yet I keep hearing about how the rebuild will be slow, we shouldn't expect any big jumps, etc., when there is plenty of evidence all around us that screams it doesn't have to be that way. What is this, the Flat Earth Society? So when after I've pulled my hair out after hearing it and debunking it for the 100th time, if you or anyone else wants to take it personally, be my guest. I will try and be more sensitive next time.

As for Utah, what is measurable progress? Since I'm not a coach, I'll stick with numbers like W-L and percentages on both ends of the floor, with an eyeball test or two thrown in. We've been largely consistent defensively. We haven't gotten a lick better offensively. The freshmen have shown promise, but outside of Loveridge (and he's clearly hit a wall) have not done it for extended minutes. This much is clear and has already been mentioned -- the league's progress has far outstripped Utah's progress. That can't happen two years in a row.

SoCalPat
03-01-2013, 08:53 AM
This Utah team is still not very talented. I am hopeful that Delon Wright is good enough to steal the starting pg spot from Taylor next year. I like Taylor, but his size and lack of consistent shot are serious limitations in a league of length and athleticism.

The Utes have one serious chance for another win this year: OSU. They had better show up for that one.

I can live with a smallish point. Isn't Wright more of a 2? That's the kind of player we need in the backcourt.

As for OSU, the Beevs have three wins against us by double digits in as many P-12 games, and in 120 total minutes, Utah has led for 1:16 and rarely has trailed by less than double digits in the second half. If that's our serious chance for another win ...

SoCalPat
03-01-2013, 08:59 AM
My big Xmas wish right now is that Bachynski figures his head issues out. He realizes that he is the heir to the middle for the next 3 years, and uses these next games to really focus on sending a message that Utah nasketball isn't planning on staying in the cellar for long. He has the pedigree, the size and strength, and I think the right demeanor to lead a team.

Last night demonstrated why Bachynski's best option out of HS was Southern Utah. If there was anything depressing about watching that game from start to finish, it was Bachinsky's play. He got punked by the rim on a dunk. He couldn't make a FT. His hands have always been soft and his feet are heavy, which is why even at 7-1, he cannot get his shot off against Pac-12 frontcourters. You don't ever want 7 feet leaving your program, but my best hope for Bach is that he's the next Larry Cain.

UBlender
03-01-2013, 09:12 AM
A couple of responses to this thread on Utah's chances for one more win:

Does Utah really match up that badly with Stanford? They obviously did when they last met, but Utah nearly swept Stanford last year. Did Stanford change that much from last year? (I know Utah changed its roster quite a bit, but it is basically a more talented version of the same team).

On Oregon State, this is a bad matchup, as Pat documented. The one hope Utah has is that it is Senior Night and maybe Utah will have similar success after honoring its seniors as it has when honoring Majerus.

Applejack
03-01-2013, 09:17 AM
I can live with a smallish point. Isn't Wright more of a 2? That's the kind of player we need in the backcourt.

As for OSU, the Beevs have three wins against us by double digits in as many P-12 games, and in 120 total minutes, Utah has led for 1:16 and rarely has trailed by less than double digits in the second half. If that's our serious chance for another win ...

I've been told Wright is a 1. I also think we'll be favored against OSU. Doesn't mean we'll win, but it is easily our most winnable game left - they aren't very good either.

Mormon Red Death
03-01-2013, 09:21 AM
A couple of responses to this thread on Utah's chances for one more win:

Does Utah really match up that badly with Stanford? They obviously did when they last met, but Utah nearly swept Stanford last year. Did Stanford change that much from last year? (I know Utah changed its roster quite a bit, but it is basically a more talented version of the same team).

On Oregon State, this is a bad matchup, as Pat documented. The one hope Utah has is that it is Senior Night and maybe Utah will have similar success after honoring its seniors as it has when honoring Majerus.

Stanford like CaL & USC have a bunch of big men to throw at washburn and to get Off rebounds. Unless Utah shoots north of 50% this will get ugly.

SeattleUte
03-01-2013, 09:32 AM
A couple of responses to this thread on Utah's chances for one more win:

Does Utah really match up that badly with Stanford? They obviously did when they last met, but Utah nearly swept Stanford last year. Did Stanford change that much from last year? (I know Utah changed its roster quite a bit, but it is basically a more talented version of the same team).

On Oregon State, this is a bad matchup, as Pat documented. The one hope Utah has is that it is Senior Night and maybe Utah will have similar success after honoring its seniors as it has when honoring Majerus.

I am more optimistic about the Ducks than the Beavers. They can beat the Ducks at home.

Applejack
03-01-2013, 09:46 AM
Agreed. If Batshitinksi (hat tip: Senioritis) is our starting center next year, we are screwed. As mentioned by SouthernCaliforniaPatrick, Larry Cain is a pretty good comp. If he's a serviceable 18 minute backup by the time he is a senior, chalk that up as a success.

UBlender
03-01-2013, 09:49 AM
Agreed. If Batshitinksi (hat tip: Senioritis) is our starting center next year, we are screwed. As mentioned by SouthernCaliforniaPatrick, Larry Cain is a pretty good comp. If he's a serviceable 18 minute backup by the time he is a senior, chalk that up as a success.

Luckily we have the steadily improving Olsen and the foreign JC kid to man the position. If Bach doesn't improve at all then we might be able to cover that position without anything from him.

Jarid in Cedar
03-01-2013, 09:52 AM
Agreed. If Batshitinksi (hat tip: Senioritis) is our starting center next year, we are screwed. As mentioned by SouthernCaliforniaPatrick, Larry Cain is a pretty good comp. If he's a serviceable 18 minute backup by the time he is a senior, chalk that up as a success.

Larry Cain is a good friend of mine. And I hope that Batshitinski can have as solid a career as Larry.

SoCalPat
03-01-2013, 09:55 AM
A couple of responses to this thread on Utah's chances for one more win:

Does Utah really match up that badly with Stanford? They obviously did when they last met, but Utah nearly swept Stanford last year. Did Stanford change that much from last year? (I know Utah changed its roster quite a bit, but it is basically a more talented version of the same team).

On Oregon State, this is a bad matchup, as Pat documented. The one hope Utah has is that it is Senior Night and maybe Utah will have similar success after honoring its seniors as it has when honoring Majerus.

I don't think we match up 33 points bad like we did in our last game. Personally, I think Stanford was embarrassed by how it played against us last year. Whether last year was a wake-up call or Dawkins really hammered the point home not to underestimate Utah ... what's it matter? It's tough for any team to beat the same team by 30-plus in back-to-back games. So I suspect a closer game, but the bar has been set kinda low there. I figure Utah leads in stretches but has another bad drought that has us losing by 10-12 points.

I'm somewhat baffled by our ineptitude against OSU, because their W-L suggests we should compete with them, but there's plenty to suggest they should be much better than us. They're not very long in the backcourt. They're best frontcourt player, Burton, is an outside-inside kind of player who has a little Bill Walton in him in how he sets up his teammates. OSU does have tons of size -- five guys 6-9 or taller, not including Burton. They miss Angus Brandt, who averaged 11 and 8 early before being lost for the season with injury. They are not a prolific 3-point shooting team, with Nelson and Starks taking most of those attempts (and at a 40 percent-plus clip). Yet four guys average double figures and a fifth, Moreland, nearly averages a double-double at 9 and 11.

SoCalPat
03-01-2013, 09:59 AM
Larry Cain is a good friend of mine. And I hope that Batshitinski can have as solid a career as Larry.

I hope you realize I meant what I said as a compliment. Cain would've been an all-league player multiple years running in a lesser league, but didn't let lack of minutes dissuade him from working his ass off and being a significant contributor as a senior.

Applejack
03-01-2013, 10:02 AM
Larry Cain is a good friend of mine. And I hope that Batshitinski can have as solid a career as Larry.

As do I. Larry would be a nice piece to our team right now and would force Batshit to the bench full time.

Jarid in Cedar
03-01-2013, 10:04 AM
I hope you realize I meant what I said as a compliment. Cain would've been an all-league player multiple years running in a lesser league, but didn't let lack of minutes dissuade him from working his ass off and being a significant contributor as a senior.

I absolutely read that as a compliment, and Larry would have a well. You need guys who grow in the program, understand their role and play well within that role with the minutes they are given.

USS Utah
03-01-2013, 11:05 AM
Only two player from last year's team are still around. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you probably need more than two players staying for a big leap.

Rocker Ute
03-01-2013, 02:20 PM
The question I ponder is how many more games do we win with a healthy and contributing David Foster?

UBlender
03-01-2013, 02:39 PM
The question I ponder is how many more games do we win with a healthy and contributing David Foster?
We're already a pretty good defensive team, would be phenomenal with Foster in the middle. On the other hand, might be even worse on offense as Washburn is the better offensive option (although perhaps Foster would have developed more on that end just as Washburn has).

Rocker Ute
03-01-2013, 02:42 PM
We're already a pretty good defensive team, would be phenomenal with Foster in the middle. On the other hand, might be even worse on offense as Washburn is the better offensive option (although perhaps Foster would have developed more on that end just as Washburn has).

How much would we be playing two towers out there though? Is this the point of a horrible season where I start suggesting writing some fan fiction about our special breakout season?

San Diego Ute Fan
03-01-2013, 02:49 PM
The question I ponder is how many more games do we win with a healthy and contributing David Foster?

That's a fair question Rocker, but you and I both know that the answer to that is depth. Injuries happen to every program. Hopefully we get deeper with some semblance of experience and continuity.

UTE FANatic
03-01-2013, 03:42 PM
I have enjoyed watching the basketball team this season, if for nothing else than a glimpse of the future. I think Larry is the guy to turn the program around and once he gets two or three classes of his guys into the program (he has one now) we will be a top team in the league for years to come.

I think Taylor, Tucker and Loveridge have bright futures in the program. I'm excited to see what Delon Wright, Van Dyke and Ahmad Fields bring to the team next year. I believe we go .500 in league play next season and keep progressing, as long as we are better each year than the year before, I'm happy.

I'm curious to see how the PG situation plays out next year, if what you guys say and Delon is a PG than it could be a 3-way battle between Taylor, Van Dyke and Wright. Taylor has a leg up IMO with a year in the system and I'm convinced he can be the guy in the future with the glimpses he has shown. I remember watching his high school highlights and noticing how great of a passer he is, he seems to try to do too much in our system because of the lack of offensive weapons we have but once we get some players around him he will flourish. We play quite a bit with two PG on the floor already so maybe an abundance of guards will work out ok.

U-Ute
03-01-2013, 04:04 PM
The question I ponder is how many more games do we win with a healthy and contributing David Foster?

Don't forget Dotson either. It seemed like he was just getting his legs back under him when he got injured again...

LA Ute
03-01-2013, 05:28 PM
I have enjoyed watching the basketball team this season, if for nothing else than a glimpse of the future. I think Larry is the guy to turn the program around and once he gets two or three classes of his guys into the program (he has one now) we will be a top team in the league for years to come.

I think Taylor, Tucker and Loveridge have bright futures in the program. I'm excited to see what Delon Wright, Van Dyke and Ahmad Fields bring to the team next year. I believe we go .500 in league play next season and keep progressing, as long as we are better each year than the year before, I'm happy.

I'm curious to see how the PG situation plays out next year, if what you guys say and Delon is a PG than it could be a 3-way battle between Taylor, Van Dyke and Wright. Taylor has a leg up IMO with a year in the system and I'm convinced he can be the guy in the future with the glimpses he has shown. I remember watching his high school highlights and noticing how great of a passer he is, he seems to try to do too much in our system because of the lack of offensive weapons we have but once we get some players around him he will flourish. We play quite a bit with two PG on the floor already so maybe an abundance of guards will work out ok.

I'll feel better next year if at least one of our guards is over 6 feet tall. Taylor and Dean looked like midgets out there last night.

I'm hoping that in 3-4 years we look back on 2011-2013 as the bad old days, a brief awful period in Ute hoops history.

Utegasm
03-02-2013, 09:24 AM
I think Olsen is the starter next year and the center of the future. If you go by recruiting I think it's realistic to expect that Utah will be a midlevel Pac 12 team in both basketball and football year in and year out, with the occasional run at a championship when everything comes together with a strong senior class. As a diehard Ute fan this is ok with me. I'd rather play in a better league against national caliber teams than win all the time against weak competition.

SeattleUte
03-02-2013, 09:42 AM
I'll feel better next year if at least one of our guards is over 6 feet tall. Taylor and Dean looked like midgets out there last night.

I'm hoping that in 3-4 years we look back on 2011-2013 as the bad old days, a brief awful period in Ute hoops history.

I can be optimistic about a team that has Tucker and Taylor at guard, Loveridge and Wright the forwards, and Olsen the center, especially if Wright can be at least as good as Will Clyburn. I'm confident that the four freshmen I listed will develop into competitive Pac 12 players.

SeattleUte
03-02-2013, 09:42 AM
I think Olsen is the starter next year and the center of the future. If you go by recruiting I think it's realistic to expect that Utah will be a midlevel Pac 12 team in both basketball and football year in and year out, with the occasional run at a championship when everything comes together with a strong senior class. As a diehard Ute fan this is ok with me. I'd rather play in a better league against national caliber teams than win all the time against weak competition.

I agree that's how it looks right now.

LA Ute
03-02-2013, 09:44 AM
I can be optimistic about a team that has Tucker and Taylor at guard, Loveridge and Wight the forwards, and Olsen the center, especially if Wright can be at least as good as Will Clyburn. I'm confident that the four freshmen I listed will develop into competitive Pac 12 players.

I think Wright is a 2, not a 3. He's only 6'5.

OrangeUte
03-02-2013, 10:29 AM
I agree that's how it looks right now.

Olsen has looked very good.

I read the comments about Bachynski comparing him to Larry Cain, one if my favorite all time Utes. I would love to have Olsen become a doleac and Bach become a Cain type player.

I'm very interested to watch the Utes play Stanford tomorrow. No matter how poorly they are playing, I enjoy watching this team. It isn't the same team as last year, despite the similar poor record. This team always gives me hope that they will be in a game and make it competitive. Sometimes they succeed others they fail. And, a few times they have pulled off the W.

LA Ute
03-02-2013, 11:07 AM
No matter how poorly they are playing, I enjoy watching this team. It isn't the same team as last year, despite the similar poor record. This team always gives me hope that they will be in a game and make it competitive. Sometimes they succeed others they fail. And, a few times they have pulled off the W.

One thing that I enjoy is that it's always clear what the team is trying to do, and the plan makes sense. They often execute badly but at least it's watchable.

OrangeUte
03-02-2013, 11:15 AM
One thing that I enjoy is that it's always clear what the team is trying to do, and the plan makes sense. They often execute badly but at least it's watchable.

And, for the most part, they have not looked like a team giving up this year. Not always so, given what you saw Thursday and what happened on the court.

I get a sense that these players atill want to win and LK and his staff need to convince them that there is still plenty to get excited about and play for.

SeattleUte
03-02-2013, 11:40 AM
Three guards can work in college.

LA Ute
03-02-2013, 12:40 PM
And, for the most part, they have not looked like a team giving up this year. Not always so, given what you saw Thursday and what happened on the court.

I get a sense that these players atill want to win and LK and his staff need to convince them that there is still plenty to get excited about and play for.

I've been thinking about what I saw. It may have meant nothing. Sometimes, when no matter what you do nothing seems to work, it can be healthy to laugh about it.

Applejack
03-02-2013, 01:12 PM
I can be optimistic about a team that has Tucker and Taylor at guard, Loveridge and Wright the forwards, and Olsen the center, especially if Wright can be at least as good as Will Clyburn. I'm confident that the four freshmen I listed will develop into competitive Pac 12 players.

I highly doubt Wright will be as good as Clyburn. Clyburn has a decent shot at being picked in the second round of the draft. Will the Thrill is the best player to wear a Ute jersey since Aussie Andrew.

USS Utah
03-02-2013, 06:22 PM
I don't know what these nearly identical scores mean, but I find them interesting:

Cal Schedule & Results:
Thu, Feb 28 Utah W 64-46
Sat, Mar 2 Colorado W 62-46

SeattleUte
03-02-2013, 06:47 PM
I highly doubt Wright will be as good as Clyburn. Clyburn has a decent shot at being picked in the second round of the draft. Will the Thrill is the best player to wear a Ute jersey since Aussie Andrew.

He will have a nice pro career and make some very good money in Europe.

SoCalPat
03-02-2013, 08:47 PM
I think Olsen is the starter next year and the center of the future. If you go by recruiting I think it's realistic to expect that Utah will be a midlevel Pac 12 team in both basketball and football year in and year out, with the occasional run at a championship when everything comes together with a strong senior class. As a diehard Ute fan this is ok with me. I'd rather play in a better league against national caliber teams than win all the time against weak competition.

I would agree 100 percent with that, except our crowning years in football came when we were playing perceived weak competition. Would we have ever experienced 2004 or 2008 if we were in the Pac-12 at that time? It's certainly debatable. And I wouldn't trade those years for anything, or similar years in the future without an equal return.

I would instead say the increased competition is a benefit when those runs at a championship go further than simply the Pac-12, and have us in the hunt for a national title or Final Four run.

SeattleUte
03-02-2013, 10:13 PM
Would it make anyone feel better if I said Cal looks like the best team in the Pac 12 right now. It's gone from 4-5 to 12-5 (eight straight for those without a calculator handy) and in that streak it's won at Arizona and at Oregon and beaten UCLA. Cal has beaten Oregon twice. Cal also has a superb coach who took Stanfor to the brink of a national title the same year we were at the brink.

LA Ute
03-02-2013, 10:28 PM
Would it make anyone feel better if I said Cal looks like the best team in the Pac 12 right now. It's gone from 4-5 to 12-5 (eight straight for those without a calculator handy) and in that streak it's won at Arizona and at Oregon and beaten UCLA. Cal has beaten Oregon twice. Cal also has a superb coach who took Stanfor to the brink of a national title the same year we were at the brink.

Actually that does make me feel better. I'd feel better still if the Utes hadn't seemed utterly helpless Thursday night. But that's sport for you.

concerned
03-03-2013, 07:23 AM
Actually that does make me feel better. I'd feel better still if the Utes hadn't seemed utterly helpless Thursday night. But that's sport for you.


Cal also dismantled Colorado yesterday.

U-Ute
03-03-2013, 12:33 PM
Would it make anyone feel better if I said Cal looks like the best team in the Pac 12 right now. It's gone from 4-5 to 12-5 (eight straight for those without a calculator handy) and in that streak it's won at Arizona and at Oregon and beaten UCLA. Cal has beaten Oregon twice. Cal also has a superb coach who took Stanfor to the brink of a national title the same year we were at the brink.

They are on a roll right now. They play stellar defense, rebound well, and have a guy in Crabbe that can practically score at will. The only thing I will say about it is that it seems like there have been 4-5 teams that looked like the cream of the league at different points during the season, only to come back to earth after a week or two. Nobody has been able to sustain it.

Maybe Cal can keep it going.

U-Ute
03-03-2013, 12:34 PM
I'll feel better next year if at least one of our guards is over 6 feet tall. Taylor and Dean looked like midgets out there last night.

I'm hoping that in 3-4 years we look back on 2011-2013 as the bad old days, a brief awful period in Ute hoops history.

http://www.utahby5.com/showthread.php?92-The-Utah-Basketball-Rebuild-Project-Thread-2013-and-after&p=1280&viewfull=1#post1280


I thought DuBois had decent size/length to be a consistent scorer. But as soon as the conference season began and we started playing P12 teams, DuBois suddenly looked 3" shorter than he did in the pre-season. I underestimated the size and length of the P12 guards.


You and me both brother.

U-Ute
03-03-2013, 12:42 PM
I can be optimistic about a team that has Tucker and Taylor at guard, Loveridge and Wright the forwards, and Olsen the center, especially if Wright can be at least as good as Will Clyburn. I'm confident that the four freshmen I listed will develop into competitive Pac 12 players.

I think you'll see Wright ahead of Tucker at the 2. Tucker is too small as a 2. At 6'10" Olsen is a bit too small at the 5 with his limited athletecism. If those guys are starting, that means the bench players (Kovacevic, Bachynski) aren't as good as them. We need depth too. Even with all that, that lineup, maybe, gets us back to .500.

SoCalPat
03-04-2013, 10:20 AM
http://www.utahby5.com/showthread.php?92-The-Utah-Basketball-Rebuild-Project-Thread-2013-and-after&p=1280&viewfull=1#post1280

You and me both brother.

If you weren't of the mindset already, this year should be Exhibit A that you can't win with good Big Sky and WCC players in the Pac-12, no matter how good the coaching is. If you are settling for these types of players, you might as well throw in the towel. At the same time, what constitutes good coaching isn't universal. Think Tubby Smith is a bad coach? Well, he's seen two guys leave his program the previous two years in Devoe Joseph (Oregon) and Colton Iverson (Colorado State) that were all-league players in their new home. Yet Minnesota has its best team in some time this year.

SeattleUte
03-04-2013, 10:35 AM
I think you'll see Wright ahead of Tucker at the 2. Tucker is too small as a 2. At 6'10" Olsen is a bit too small at the 5 with his limited athletecism. If those guys are starting, that means the bench players (Kovacevic, Bachynski) aren't as good as them. We need depth too. Even with all that, that lineup, maybe, gets us back to .500.

Tucker is 6-5. That's big enough for a 2. Maybe he needs to mature and grow some muscles.

SeattleUte
03-04-2013, 10:37 AM
If you weren't of the mindset already, this year should be Exhibit A that you can't win with good Big Sky and WCC players in the Pac-12, no matter how good the coaching is. If you are settling for these types of players, you might as well throw in the towel. At the same time, what constitutes good coaching isn't universal. Think Tubby Smith is a bad coach? Well, he's seen two guys leave his program the previous two years in Devoe Joseph (Oregon) and Colton Iverson (Colorado State) that were all-league players in their new home. Yet Minnesota has its best team in some time this year.

I agree.

I think Tubby Smith is a good coach, and always have.

I think our coaches are good enough game and program coaches except for recruiting, about which I've always been concerned and remain so. Do you wonder what might have been if Aaron Dotson had remained healthy?

UtahDan
03-04-2013, 10:41 AM
Maybe this has been commented on but the best part of this poll is clicking to see who the two people who called us a dumpster fire are. Actually, you can probably guess without looking.

SoCalPat
03-05-2013, 03:09 PM
Maybe this has been commented on but the best part of this poll is clicking to see who the two people who called us a dumpster fire are. Actually, you can probably guess without looking.

Actually, the best part of this thread is that your only contribution to it was to call posters out who (presumably) don't share your all-is-well view of the future. We appreciate your insight on the matter.

kccougar
03-05-2013, 03:32 PM
Maybe this has been commented on but the best part of this poll is clicking to see who the two people who called us a dumpster fire are. Actually, you can probably guess without looking.

I guess you have to add me to the list. Sorry, just being honest.

U-Ute
03-05-2013, 03:50 PM
Tucker is 6-5. That's big enough for a 2. Maybe he needs to mature and grow some muscles.

I'm not sure I believe that number. I saw him at Fan Fest last summer, and he doesn't seem that big. I had a neighbor that was 6'4" that seemed taller. He doesn't play very big either.

SoCalPat
03-05-2013, 04:46 PM
I guess you have to add me to the list. Sorry, just being honest.

Use of the pronoun "We" in the poll response automatically means your vote means nothing. Unless you're using the poll to renounce your Cougarhood.

mpfunk
03-05-2013, 05:16 PM
I didn't vote because there was no option that I don't know when in the hell we are going to be competitive in the Pac-12.

Rocker Ute
03-06-2013, 12:56 PM
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/sports/55960108-77/majerus-billikens-team-slu.html.csp

Happy to see that they are having success post Majerus. There are many who will pan this, but I'm excited to be seeing some fundamentally sound playing by the Utes finally. Like many I'm concerned how we can get better with the current roster and the unknowns coming in. However, I do believe that worst case scenario at the end of Kodiak's contract that the right building blocks will be in place for either him or someone else to succeed. Something we haven't had in a while.

SoCalPat
03-07-2013, 11:48 PM
Quickie look to next year's depth chart:

Center: Kovacevic, Bachynski
Power forward: Olsen, Lenz
Small forward: Loveridge, Fields
Shooting guard: Wright, Tucker, Van Dyke
Point guard: Taylor, Dean

I think Miller will leave on his mission. There are no minutes for him.

Predicted departures: Dotson, Seymour. The former might never get to 100 percent health; the latter is a casualty of a glut at the 2.

That leaves us two scholarships to fill. Again, we need more size. Despite being overloaded in the backcourt, we need another big ballhandler -- someone 6-5 or taller. The best sign that we're poised for a huge leap next year is if Taylor can be the backup PG. We're also thin -- literally and figuratively -- in the frontcourt. We need a glass-eating 4, or possibly another center if Bachinsky leaves.

concerned
03-08-2013, 05:54 AM
Quickie look to next year's depth chart:

Center: Kovacevic, Bachynski
Power forward: Olsen, Lenz
Small forward: Loveridge, Fields
Shooting guard: Wright, Tucker, Van Dyke
Point guard: Taylor, Dean

I think Miller will leave on his mission. There are no minutes for him.

Predicted departures: Dotson, Seymour. The former might never get to 100 percent health; the latter is a casualty of a glut at the 2.

That leaves us two scholarships to fill. Again, we need more size. Despite being overloaded in the backcourt, we need another big ballhandler -- someone 6-5 or taller. The best sign that we're poised for a huge leap next year is if Taylor can be the backup PG. We're also thin -- literally and figuratively -- in the frontcourt. We need a glass-eating 4, or possibly another center if Bachinsky leaves.

From everything I have seen and heard, they are going to play Van Dyke mostly at the point. Possibly that could make Dean a casualty. Miller is definitely going straight away, largely b/c they want to stagger him and Van Dyke.

It must be a good sign that we are last in the league in scoring but third or fourth in assisted points. That must mean there is some good coaching going on.

SoCalPat
03-08-2013, 08:38 AM
From everything I have seen and heard, they are going to play Van Dyke mostly at the point. Possibly that could make Dean a casualty. Miller is definitely going straight away, largely b/c they want to stagger him and Van Dyke.

It must be a good sign that we are last in the league in scoring but third or fourth in assisted points. That must mean there is some good coaching going on.

I would flip that figure in a heartbeat. Additionally, I would bet tempo plays a huge role in that stat. Not that it isn't an impressive stat, but there are other factors that play into it, too.

I was surprised to hear that stat. I'm inclined to take it at face value, but I also know if there's one stat in hoops that can be fudged, it's the assist. It certainly looked like we got a lot of assisted FGs last night, but I wish I would've kept the game for further review.

Mormon Red Death
03-08-2013, 08:51 AM
I would flip that figure in a heartbeat. Additionally, I would bet tempo plays a huge role in that stat. Not that it isn't an impressive stat, but there are other factors that play into it, too.

I was surprised to hear that stat. I'm inclined to take it at face value, but I also know if there's one stat in hoops that can be fudged, it's the assist. It certainly looked like we got a lot of assisted FGs last night, but I wish I would've kept the game for further review.

There are times when this team really gets rolling they start making the extra pass and the offense gets cooking. Last night around the 10 minute mark is where things were popping. The best they were this season was the first half against Cal St. Northridge. They looked like the showtime lakers in that half. Looking back at that game. Nearly every basket in the first half was an assisted basket.

concerned
03-08-2013, 09:04 AM
I would flip that figure in a heartbeat. Additionally, I would bet tempo plays a huge role in that stat. Not that it isn't an impressive stat, but there are other factors that play into it, too.

I was surprised to hear that stat. I'm inclined to take it at face value, but I also know if there's one stat in hoops that can be fudged, it's the assist. It certainly looked like we got a lot of assisted FGs last night, but I wish I would've kept the game for further review.


I suppose it could really be an indictment of the talent on the team--that nobody is capable of getting his own shot and making an unassisted basket, but i am going to interpret it positively for now.

USS Utah
03-09-2013, 02:34 PM
A lot of concern expressed here last week. Anyone still concerned about the direction of Utah basketball?

LA Ute
03-09-2013, 02:38 PM
A lot of concern expressed here last week. Anyone still concerned about the direction of Utah basketball?

I think we have to be concerned but there is reason for hope. Lots of good signs. IMO we still need better players, either imports or improved current players. Size, we will have to import. I'm encouraged that we'll have a 6'5" 2-guard next season.

Utebiquitous
03-09-2013, 04:55 PM
Sorry, that title is a little Brokeback Mountain isn't it.

I think we saw a little this afternoon of what Utah is in dire need of - a guard (or perhaps a small forward) who can get and make a high percentage shot as the clock ticks down. Dubois did it today and he did it against OSU Thursday but he has limitations. The biggest one is that he does not finish at the basket (he got lucky with one in the first half where he hooked it off the glass and in). What the coaches have asked him to do all season if he's going to create at the end of the shot clock is to use his pull-up jumper from 10-15 feet. He's very good at it as we saw this afternoon. Too many times he dribbles into traffic, loses the ball, makes a bad pass, or takes a wild shot at the rim. Today, he pulled up and hit three key jumpers in the second half in the final .05 seconds of the clock. Money.

What the coaches hope Delon Wright brings is a player who will not only hit a big shot off the bounce but also get to the rim more and get other players shots. He'll probably need to get stronger. I sure hope he can do in the Pac-12 what he's done at the JC level.

Olsen and Loveridge really need to improve in the off-season as well. I think they can and will. I just don't have any confidence that Bachyinski has it in him and Lenz appears pretty limited.

I do think the future's bright. I thought this team could/should go 9-9 in the league this year. After seeing the games this week and looking back over the season I think they should have had at least two more wins. I was probably too optimistic to hope for .500 but we shouldn't have been 4 games under. I'll expect us to at least play .500 ball next year.

Fun games this week. The atmosphere at the Huntsman Center is getting better and better.
'biq

Katy Lied
03-10-2013, 04:05 AM
Dubois did it today and he did it against OSU Thursday but he has limitations.

Sort of disagree. Dubois was nails yesterday. And can you believe Washburn is going to be missed? Nobody saw that coming when he played under Boylen. He had what-- no fouls yesterday?