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SoCalPat
03-02-2013, 08:49 PM
Take your shot at Nostradamian glory, with no fear of reprisal for picks that fall flat on their face.

I'll start it off by saying USC plays in the Pac-12 title game.

Jarid in Cedar
03-02-2013, 08:52 PM
USC is probably playing the best basketball in the conference. I will add a not so outlandish one: No midmajors in the elite 8.

Virginia Ute
03-02-2013, 08:53 PM
VCU to national title game.
Utah wins 1st round game in P12 Tourney.

Rocker Ute
03-02-2013, 09:31 PM
Zags are the first #1 seed to go down in the sweet 16 no less.

Newbomb Turk
03-02-2013, 09:55 PM
Duke will not have to leave the east coast as long as they are in the tournament. Oh wait, that's not outlandish.

SeattleUte
03-02-2013, 10:09 PM
Duke will not have to leave the east coast as long as they are in the tournament. Oh wait, that's not outlandish.

Cal will be elite 8.

SeattleUte
03-11-2013, 09:49 PM
Does St. Mary's get an NCAA bid? I sure hope not. It has beaten absoultely nobody. If Washington didn't get a bid after winning the Pac 12 outright last year I don't think St. Mary's should. Compare Utah's 5 best wins to St. Mary's.

Hadrian
03-11-2013, 09:57 PM
Utah wins the national championship

sometime in the next 100 years.

SoCalPat
03-11-2013, 09:59 PM
Does St. Mary's get an NCAA bid? I sure hope not. It has beaten absoultely nobody. If Washington didn't get a bid after winning the Pac 12 outright last year I don't think St. Mary's should. Compare Utah's 5 best wins to St. Mary's.

FWIW, Creighton (25), BYU twice (67), Harvard (93) and Santa Clara twice (101). Outside of Gonzaga, SM has lost just one game to a top 100 RPI team.

Utah's best wins are clearly superior to St. Mary's, but Utah also has double the number of games vs. RPI top 100 teams.

I think St. Mary's gets a bid, but only because it's riding the coattails of Gonzaga. Has a No. 1 seed ever come from a one-bid league?

SeattleUte
03-11-2013, 10:05 PM
Does Gonzaga get a number 1 seed? I sure hope not. It has beaten almost nobody. If Utah got a no. 2 seed after finising ranked number 2 in the nation in 1997 I don't think Gonzaga should get a number 1 seed this season. Compare Utah's 5 best wins this season to Gonzaga's.

If Gonzaga gets a number 1 seed and Georgetown doesn't win the Big East tournament, I hope GU is in Gonzaga's bracket.

SoCalPat
03-11-2013, 10:17 PM
Does Gonzaga get a number 1 seed? I sure hope not. It has beaten almost nobody. If Utah got a no. 2 seed after finising ranked number 2 in the nation in 1997 I don't think Gonzaga should get a number 1 seed this season. Compare Utah's 5 best wins this season to Gonzaga's.

If Gonzaga gets a number 1 seed and Georgetown doesn't win the Big East tournament, I hope GU is in Gonzaga's bracket.

Gonzaga is 10-2 against the RPI 100, with a one-point loss at the buzzer to Butler. It's lone black mark is an 11-point loss at home to Illinois, another tournament team. I would hardly say one-third of your wins doesn't qualify as "almost nobody." If Baylor sneaks into the tournament, Gonzaga will have gone 5-0 against tournament teams from the Big 12.

Zags' five best wins: K-State (20), Oklahoma State (23), St. Mary's (30, 3 times), Oklahoma (33). Clearly better than Utah's five best wins of Colorado (36), Boise State (37), Oregon (54), Washington (88) and Arizona State (91)

SeattleUte
03-11-2013, 10:26 PM
Gonzaga is 10-2 against the RPI 100, with a one-point loss at the buzzer to Butler. It's lone black mark is an 11-point loss at home to Illinois, another tournament team. I would hardly say one-third of your wins doesn't qualify as "almost nobody." If Baylor sneaks into the tournament, Gonzaga will have gone 5-0 against tournament teams from the Big 12.

Zags' five best wins: K-State (20), Oklahoma State (23), St. Mary's (30, 3 times), Oklahoma (33). Clearly better than Utah's five best wins of Colorado (36), Boise State (37), Oregon (54), Washington (88) and Arizona State (91)

They are comparable. I didn't say they were better.

SeattleUte
03-11-2013, 10:28 PM
Gonzaga is 10-2 against the RPI 100, with a one-point loss at the buzzer to Butler. It's lone black mark is an 11-point loss at home to Illinois, another tournament team. I would hardly say one-third of your wins doesn't qualify as "almost nobody." If Baylor sneaks into the tournament, Gonzaga will have gone 5-0 against tournament teams from the Big 12.

Zags' five best wins: K-State (20), Oklahoma State (23), St. Mary's (30, 3 times), Oklahoma (33). Clearly better than Utah's five best wins of Colorado (36), Boise State (37), Oregon (54), Washington (88) and Arizona State (91)

Still, it doesn't add up to a number 1 seed.

SoCalPat
03-11-2013, 10:33 PM
Still, it doesn't add up to a number 1 seed.

I agree. Of the teams out west, New Mexico has the clearly superior body of work.

Scratch
03-11-2013, 10:36 PM
Still, it doesn't add up to a number 1 seed.

I would agree with this sentiment most years, but man there are no elite teams this year. I'm at a loss as to who gets the #1s. I think conference tournaments will have a lot to do with it, probably more than ever before.

SeattleUte
03-11-2013, 10:56 PM
I would agree with this sentiment most years, but man there are no elite teams this year. I'm at a loss as to who gets the #1s. I think conference tournaments will have a lot to do with it, probably more than ever before.

Indiana should be a lock come what may in the tournament. It won a brutal Big 10 outright.

CardiacCoug
03-11-2013, 10:56 PM
Still, it doesn't add up to a number 1 seed.

People in Western Washington don't like people in Eastern Washington, is that what's going on here?

SoCalPat
03-11-2013, 10:58 PM
Indiana should be a lock come what may in the tournament. It won a brutal Big 10 outright.

That's not really that outlandish of a prediction. Focus, man, focus!

SeattleUte
03-11-2013, 11:12 PM
People in Western Washington don't like people in Eastern Washington, is that what's going on here?

Because I don't think Gonzaga deserves a no. 1 seed? I think I'm not alone.

Actually, nobody here pays much attention to Gonzaga.

chrisrenrut
03-12-2013, 06:54 AM
People in Western Washington don't like people in Eastern Washington, is that what's going on here?

Based on his last response, I'd say he is trying to goad Hoyos/Mr Crimson.

UBlender
03-12-2013, 09:00 AM
My outlandish prediction of the morning: Duke wins the whole thing. Okay, it's not outlandish to pick Duke because they haven't lost with Ryan Kelly healthy this year. The outlandish part is me actually saying this--I feel evil. Hopefully I will see something this week to change my mind.

SeattleUte
03-12-2013, 09:37 AM
Based on his last response, I'd say he is trying to goad Hoyos/Mr Crimson.

Not at all. I'm not interested in engaging one of his emotional outbursts. But I doubt he'd feel strongly that Gonzaga deserves a number 1 seed.

Flystripper
03-12-2013, 09:52 AM
FWIW, Creighton (25), BYU twice (67), Harvard (93) and Santa Clara twice (101). Outside of Gonzaga, SM has lost just one game to a top 100 RPI team.

Utah's best wins are clearly superior to St. Mary's, but Utah also has double the number of games vs. RPI top 100 teams.

I think St. Mary's gets a bid, but only because it's riding the coattails of Gonzaga. Has a No. 1 seed ever come from a one-bid league?

UNLV from the Big West is probably the only one in the "modern" tournament.

FN Phat
03-12-2013, 10:24 AM
My struggling, yet beloved, 'Cuse makes a deep run in the tourney with momentum from winning the Big East tourney

Flystripper
03-12-2013, 11:38 AM
Does St. Mary's get an NCAA bid? I sure hope not. It has beaten absoultely nobody. If Washington didn't get a bid after winning the Pac 12 outright last year I don't think St. Mary's should. Compare Utah's 5 best wins to St. Mary's.

yes

SoCalPat
03-13-2013, 04:01 PM
UNLV from the Big West is probably the only one in the "modern" tournament.

That would obviously my first guess, but something tells me one of those Santa Barbara teams with Brian Shaw or NMSU got in as well. The pickens obviously be slim, though.

Jeromy in SLC
03-13-2013, 04:10 PM
That would obviously my first guess, but something tells me one of those Santa Barbara teams with Brian Shaw or NMSU got in as well. The pickens obviously be slim, though.

Don't know about UCSB, but NMSU made it as an at-large in 1990 and 1991. Not certain about 1990, but they were ranked in 1991.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2

FN Phat
03-13-2013, 05:32 PM
My struggling, yet beloved, 'Cuse makes a deep run in the tourney with momentum from winning the Big East tourney

One step closer!

Flystripper
03-13-2013, 06:09 PM
Don't know about UCSB, but NMSU made it as an at-large in 1990 and 1991. Not certain about 1990, but they were ranked in 1991.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2

I stand corrected

Jeromy in SLC
03-13-2013, 06:15 PM
I stand corrected

No need to be corrected. You are correct that the pickings are very slim for mid major leagues.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2

SoCalPat
03-13-2013, 09:53 PM
Take your shot at Nostradamian glory, with no fear of reprisal for picks that fall flat on their face.

I'll start it off by saying USC plays in the Pac-12 title game.

Happy to be "wrong" although I'll say I made this prediction before the matchup with Utah was set. You can find a much better prediction of Utah-USC somewhere else on this site, guaranteed.

Tacoma Ute
03-14-2013, 06:36 PM
Take your shot at Nostradamian glory, with no fear of reprisal for picks that fall flat on their face.

I'll start it off by saying USC plays in the Pac-12 title game.


Weber State over Saint Louis in the NCAA title game.

Jeromy in SLC
03-14-2013, 06:44 PM
Weber State over Saint Louis in the NCAA title game.

That certainly qualifies as outlandish. As much love as they have got, how about no Big 10 teams in the Final Four.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2

FN Phat
03-15-2013, 07:11 PM
OrangeUte are you watching this game?!? Where are you at SeattleUte!?

OrangeUte
03-15-2013, 07:28 PM
OrangeUte are you watching this game?!? Where are you at SeattleUte!?

My phone died so I was just watching without being able to communicate. Cuse is back baby! Finally some decent offense! Overcoming bad decisions and missed shots and not get down. Wjat a great game!

Damn - I'm going to miss the big east for hoops. This is one of the great rivalries of all sports.

SoCalPat
03-17-2013, 12:33 PM
My phone died so I was just watching without being able to communicate. Cuse is back baby! Finally some decent offense! Overcoming bad decisions and missed shots and not get down. Wjat a great game!

Damn - I'm going to miss the big east for hoops. This is one of the great rivalries of all sports.

Someone better check on OrangeUte to see if he's still alive after that abomination put up by Syracuse over the final 12 minutes against Louisville. That kind of collapse is truly special.

LA Ute
03-17-2013, 12:46 PM
Someone better check on OrangeUte to see if he's still alive after that abomination put up by Syracuse over the final 12 minutes against Louisville. That kind of collapse is truly special.

OU and FN Phat seem to be fine (http://www.utahby5.com/showthread.php?420-The-Championship-Week-Thread&p=8335#post8335). They lived through the whole debacle online.

OrangeUte
03-17-2013, 01:02 PM
Someone better check on OrangeUte to see if he's still alive after that abomination put up by Syracuse over the final 12 minutes against Louisville. That kind of collapse is truly special.

Seriously. That was absolutely brutal to watch. Wow. Boeheim looked almost amused after the game. It sucks that Louisville ends the last big east tourney. Scum suckers!

OrangeUte
03-17-2013, 01:04 PM
I predict that the Utes win the CBI if they get in.

HuskyFreeNorthwest
03-17-2013, 01:29 PM
All P12 teams that get into the dance win their first game.

SoCalPat
03-17-2013, 08:37 PM
All P12 teams that get into the dance win their first game.

I'll counter by saying Arizona and one of the 12 seeds lose. Pac-12 goes 3-2 in opening round.

FN Phat
03-30-2013, 07:26 PM
My struggling, yet beloved, 'Cuse makes a deep run in the tourney with momentum from winning the Big East tourney

Looks like I am not too far off. I would love to see Syracuse beat UL for the championship but we need to get one more win that will be a hard to come by win but I like the momentum this team has right now

FN Phat
03-30-2013, 08:01 PM
You need to hope for Louisville. Duke can shoot right through that zone.

I am hoping Florida beats Michigan or Burke and McGary are going to have a heyday with the zone themselves and it won't matter who wins the UL/Duke game

FN Phat
03-31-2013, 07:37 PM
I know this board is in its infancy but there has been zero talk of the games today. I find that odd on a sports forum. Especially in light of Kevin Ware's broken leg. By far, the most disgusting sports injury I have seen and the most gruesome ever in basketball.

Jarid in Cedar
03-31-2013, 08:35 PM
I know this board is in its infancy but there has been zero talk of the games today. I find that odd on a sports forum. Especially in light of Kevin Ware's broken leg. By far, the most disgusting sports injury I have seen and the most gruesome ever in basketball.


I heard the call on the radio as I was driving home. Now that I have seen the video, yikes. That was just beyond Sam Bowie's injury.

UBlender
03-31-2013, 08:44 PM
I turned the game on while he was down. They didn't say what happened. I just saw teammates, coaches, and fans crying. I saw the stretcher and him not moving. Clark Kellogg said something about an unprecedented scene in basketball. I was really afraid someone had broken his neck. Then about 10 minutes after the action started, they said he had a broken leg, and I couldn't understand why everyone was reacting like that. It must have been horrible.

I had a similar experience. I had the game on but was playing with my 4 year old and missed what happened. All I saw was a guy motionless, crying teammates and commentators talking about an unprecedented situation. For a second I was afraid we were witnessing Hank Gathers 2.0. Curiosity got the best of me so I ran back the DVR and saw the injury happen. I wish I hadn't seen it. Horrible. I hope the kid makes a full recovery. Forever, when bored sports radio hosts start talking about the worst injuries in sports history, Kevin Ware will be one of the first names mentioned alongside Joe Theisman. Ugly injury but I'm glad it wasn't actually a broken neck or other life threatening situation.

LA Ute
03-31-2013, 08:56 PM
I know this board is in its infancy but there has been zero talk of the games today. I find that odd on a sports forum. Especially in light of Kevin Ware's broken leg. By far, the most disgusting sports injury I have seen and the most gruesome ever in basketball.

In my case it's just been an unusually busy Easter Sunday. I'm probably not the only one. I didn't see the injury (which I'm kinda glad about) but I saw the immediate aftermath. Happy for you and Orange -- I hope your guys make the final.

Rocker Ute
03-31-2013, 09:35 PM
I know this board is in its infancy but there has been zero talk of the games today. I find that odd on a sports forum. Especially in light of Kevin Ware's broken leg. By far, the most disgusting sports injury I have seen and the most gruesome ever in basketball.

I was going to make that same comment. If you can find a way to see the clip of just people's reactions close to it, even that will turn your stomach. The Louisville bench literally fled from it, and people on the floor just collapsed in disgust. Even the Duke team couldn't look. WSJ is reporting that it was a fractured tibia, but there is no way it only got one bone.

Away from that subject, could anyone have seen this Final Four? Louisville is the only team I have intact, and fortunately winning the whole thing. Other than the Ware thing, it has been a pretty fun tournament.

OrangeUte
03-31-2013, 11:20 PM
I was going to make that same comment. If you can find a way to see the clip of just people's reactions close to it, even that will turn your stomach. The Louisville bench literally fled from it, and people on the floor just collapsed in disgust. Even the Duke team couldn't look. WSJ is reporting that it was a fractured tibia, but there is no way it only got one bone.

Away from that subject, could anyone have seen this Final Four? Louisville is the only team I have intact, and fortunately winning the whole thing. Other than the Ware thing, it has been a pretty fun tournament.

Gross gross gross.

This final 4 is interesting. I had duke playing Syracuse in the final. Louisville is in rather than Duke after an emotional win today. But, Wichita State and Michigan as the other 2 teams? That is crazy. The Shockers could pull out an upset against the Cardinals but I'm not expecting that result.

As for Michigan and the Cuse. I amTaking syracuse. If they get some early offensive heat going it will be a big win for the Orange. If not, it will be a nail biter that is won in the end by syracuse's length and smothering defense.

UtahDan
04-01-2013, 07:18 AM
I heard the call on the radio as I was driving home. Now that I have seen the video, yikes. That was just beyond Sam Bowie's injury.

Do you suspect some underlying issue might have just gotten revealed for him?

FN Phat
04-01-2013, 07:54 AM
Gross gross gross.

This final 4 is interesting. I had duke playing Syracuse in the final. Louisville is in rather than Duke after an emotional win today. But, Wichita State and Michigan as the other 2 teams? That is crazy. The Shockers could pull out an upset against the Cardinals but I'm not expecting that result.

As for Michigan and the Cuse. I amTaking syracuse. If they get some early offensive heat going it will be a big win for the Orange. If not, it will be a nail biter that is won in the end by syracuse's length and smothering defense.

I had Syracuse and Louisville. I mostly just wanted SU to have a chance to even the season series with a NC! I would have rather played Florida than Michigan. I think Michigan matches up with SU very well and have the potential to wreak havoc with the 2-3. Although, the zone is killing it right now. Fewest points total allowed since the field expanded. That is what I am talking about.

cowboy
04-01-2013, 07:54 AM
I was going to make that same comment. If you can find a way to see the clip of just people's reactions close to it, even that will turn your stomach. The Louisville bench literally fled from it, and people on the floor just collapsed in disgust. Even the Duke team couldn't look. WSJ is reporting that it was a fractured tibia, but there is no way it only got one bone.

Away from that subject, could anyone have seen this Final Four? Louisville is the only team I have intact, and fortunately winning the whole thing. Other than the Ware thing, it has been a pretty fun tournament.
That's definitely right up there with Theismann, et. al. You know it's bad when Duke's Tyler Thornton looked for Ware to guard him, saw him lying there, and just hid his eyes. He looked like he was trying not to cry. I've already won our company pool (we only had 20 bracket entries) because I'm ahead of everyone who picked Louisville, and nobody picked anyone else that made it to the Final Four. I had Louisville beating Kansas, so that's not gonna happen, but I do feel good about picking Syracuse to make it to the Final Four. I'm flying to Atlanta Friday to watch the games in a once-in-a-lifetime trip, and I'm excited enough to kiss a pig. I doubt Rosie O'Donnel would let me kiss her anyway.

FN Phat
04-01-2013, 07:57 AM
That's definitely right up there with Theismann, et. al. You know it's bad when Duke's Tyler Thornton looked for Ware to guard him, saw him lying there, and just hid his eyes. He looked like he was trying not to cry. I've already won our company pool (we only had 20 bracket entries) because I'm ahead of everyone who picked Louisville, and nobody picked anyone else that made it to the Final Four. I had Louisville beating Kansas, so that's not gonna happen, but I do feel good about picking Syracuse to make it to the Final Four. I'm flying to Atlanta Friday to watch the game in a once-in-a-lifetime trip, and I'm excited enough to kiss a pig. I doubt Rosie O'Donnel would let me kiss her anyway.

Yet another reason that I am envious of you. I would love to do that.

Jarid in Cedar
04-01-2013, 09:05 AM
Do you suspect some underlying issue might have just gotten revealed for him?


No I don't. He landed with a ton of force, and awkwardly. Freak accident.

tooblue
04-01-2013, 09:49 AM
I was going to make that same comment. If you can find a way to see the clip of just people's reactions close to it, even that will turn your stomach. The Louisville bench literally fled from it, and people on the floor just collapsed in disgust. Even the Duke team couldn't look. WSJ is reporting that it was a fractured tibia, but there is no way it only got one bone.

Away from that subject, could anyone have seen this Final Four? Louisville is the only team I have intact, and fortunately winning the whole thing. Other than the Ware thing, it has been a pretty fun tournament.

I just don't post a lot in the sports forums. I prefer to simply read. I have watched nearly every game so far. I really wanted to put Michigan in my final four in my bracket but I just couldn't do it. One thing was clear to me though early on. First, Gonzaga did not deserve a 1 seed. Second, regardless of their seed, I knew they would not get far in the tournament because they would not have the benefit of the WCC conference officials protecting their star big man. And that leads me to my biggest observation: the *officiating has been wildly inconsistent to down right awful from region to region. Normally, I am an officiating apologists. But, this year the officiating has really affected game play too much. The games are ugly, in part because they are amateur athletes (for me that's a huge plus and why I watch) but also because of the inconsistent calls throughout the course of the games.

*in the interest of full disclosure, I am a high school basketball official.

FN Phat
04-01-2013, 10:19 AM
No I don't. He landed with a ton of force, and awkwardly. Freak accident.

I ve heard rumors of an existing stress fracture

tooblue
04-01-2013, 10:31 AM
I agree that officiating has been inconsistent, but I don't think that's anything new. It's always inconsistent. Not just in March. In basketball. That's the nature of the sport and one of its biggest flaws.

The two teams that all the experts said were primed for early upsets were Michigan and Marquette. Oops.

I disagree that they are always inconsistent. That's a common retort of fans and players but, it's rarely an accurate assessment. The biggest flaw in the game is the inability of coaching, players and fans to recognize that officiating has very little to do with the outcome of a game. Too much time and energy is spent worrying about officials and less about executing the game plan and adjusting to the opponent.

Typically, officials are invisible. In last years tournament that was the case. Not so this year. Too much time is spent at the scorer's table reviewing plays. And, I have heard reported the names of at least two officials in this year's field. That's not normal or good. First, we can blame the officials and assignors themselves for this but, a good portion can be blamed on the conferences and the media. There is also at this point in history a changing of the guard happening. Many conferences are losing the baby boomer generation of officials and the consistency that comes with their experience. This year in particular something is amiss.

Jarid in Cedar
04-01-2013, 11:23 AM
I ve heard rumors of an existing stress fracture

Which would make sense with the severity of the break, but it doesn't portend something bad for the kid longterm(outside of the rare possibility of an undiagnosed bone tumor).

tooblue
04-01-2013, 01:07 PM
I obviously disagree. I hear and see complaints about officials and consistency every year. This year, it seems like the two big issues are fouling on a three-point attempt and charge/block calls. The charge/block issue is just a mess because the rule and the action are unclear.

The rule is very clear. The officials are screwing it up. It's due mostly to inexperience. Too many officials give too much benefit of doubt to the defender. Offensive fouls should not be called nearly as often as they are. As with just about every other call in basketball it's an issue of time and space. The Craft call for OSU in the second or third round was one of the worst calls I have ever seen.


I sympathize with your position as a ref, but this is not true at all. All games are affected by calls. A significant percentage of calls in basketball are questionable, and those calls have a large impact on the outcome of every game. It's most clear when the questionable calls come at the end, but even a call in the middle of the first half can create a momentum swing that completely alters the outcome. The media is always trying to make the same claim that you are making - that calls don't matter. I understand that it's a part of the game that can't be overcome. I hope my teams play well enough to win regardless of any bad luck with calls. But don't say the calls aren't part of the game. They are.

I never said the refs aren't a part of the game ... they are ... just like the floor or the hoops are a part of the game. Bottom line: refs don't make baskets, play defence or establish good offensive or defensive position. Calls, so called good or bad, are just calls, nothing more. And that's the real flaw in the game. Coaches, players and fans think calls have more effect on the game than they do. They don't. Even if a ref is dirty, it's incredibly difficult to fix a game as compared to say football or soccer. The game is too quick, teams score too quickly and easily for a ref to have any outcome related meaningful impact on a game. But fans and especially players don't want to hear that. In a typical game I could blow my whistle every 3 - 5 seconds. Yet, each player may only commit 5 fouls‽ That's what fans and many ignorant players don't get. My job is not to call every foul or violation or every potential foul or violation, it's to keep the game fair!


I have never seen a full basketball game at any level where this is true. I don't hate officials like I used to - I understand that they are the best at what they do. It's simply impossible to get everything right.

It's not possible to get everything right and that's not the goal. The goal is to manage the game and ensure fair and equitable participation.

U-Ute
04-01-2013, 02:35 PM
We left my parent's house just before Ware's injury. My brother texted me when it happened. Given the responses and resultant commentary, I've gone out of my way to avoid seeing it. I'm not squeamish at all, but no need to test my limits. The reaction of his teammates was good enough for me.

I feel real bad for the kid. His team goes to the Final Four, and he's stuck in a hospital bed. Although, all reports are saying his surgery was a success. Who knows if his playing days are over, but at least the kid will still be able to walk and run.

tooblue
04-01-2013, 03:09 PM
Maybe it is in theory. But there is not a discrete difference between a charge and a block. It's not black/white. There is a continuous difference, which means the middle cases are gray and tough to gauge.

It's not black and white, but it also isn't grey. It's clear. Time and space is the key factor: the offensive foul called in favour of Craft and OSU wasn't a bad call because his foot may have been partially in the semi-cirle but, because there was not enough time for Craft to get into and maintain a legal defensive position in order to draw the charge.


No way. It would be very easy to fix a game. A couple of key calls is all it takes. It sounds like you are basically saying "Bad calls happen, but they are so common that they even out and hurt each team equally."

I have refereed for roughly ten years. I have called hundreds if not thousands of games. I do games every week. My assignor wants me to do six men's league games this week. So called bad calls, as well as good ones happen. They are just calls. It always balances out because the intent is fairness, not to call every foul or violation.

There is no such thing as key calls, only key plays. A dirty official would not only have to disrupt a player or players but, also disrupt the other two officials on the floor. At best he/she could call more fouls in his/her zone to send players to the line to affect the point spread. But, he could not make all the calls, especially at the end of a game because there would be no assurance he would be in position to make the call. It would be too obvious to make the call out of position, say from the trail position. The game is too quick.


Just not true. We have examples every week during the basketball season of refs having meaningful impacts on the outcome of games. Just last week, a bad call had a very large impact on the outcome of the ISU/OSU game. It was clearly a bad call and clearly a difficult call to get right, and it clearly affected the game in a big way.

Players still had to play defence and make shots. The call didn't decide the game, the player who made the shot did. You might argue that the previous call gave that player the opportunity to take the shot but, if it wasn't that play it would've been another play. There is never only one call or one player on the floor. There are just too many variables at play here to boil it down to one play.

Consider the famous Jordan shot over Bryon Russell in the finals. Russell had established a legal defensive position. Jordan illegally pushed off to create space for his jump shot. Ultimately, the no call was the best call. No one asks why a no call was the best call? Because officials don't decide games, players do. As an aside, why didn't Stockton double team Jordan. Surely he knew Jordan would take the shot. Why didn't Sloan call a defence to try and force the ball out of Jordan's hands? Jordan hit a great shot. Bulls win, Jazz lose.

U-Ute
04-01-2013, 05:39 PM
I should've blocked that shot tho. Lol"

His sense of humor seems intact.

https://twitter.com/_billionairebev/status/318623892912603136

Here he is on crutches

https://twitter.com/KKcards/status/318749352715751427/photo/1

LA Ute
04-01-2013, 06:04 PM
Here he is on crutches

https://twitter.com/KKcards/status/318749352715751427/photo/1

I hope I'm right in thinking that the fact he can even use crutches and walk upright is a good sign. We need Hostile to weigh in on this.

HuskyFreeNorthwest
04-01-2013, 08:26 PM
I have to thank you for this conversation. It's really an interesting look into what is going on in a ref's mind. I disagree with a lot of what you are saying - there clearly are key plays and key calls all the time - but I can see how you have to think this way if you are going to call games. It's probably the only healthy attitude for a referee to have. I wonder if the refs who appear to be jerks are those who have lost the ability to think the way you do about their bad calls and have embraced the role of a villain.

Signed,
Dave Libbey