The Pope Francis Thread: The Italians Picked an American Pope with Italian Parents

[wuapinmon]

Pope Francis is an interesting character:

1. He is on record (http://www.taringa.net/posts/noticias/16494734/El-papa-francisco-I-opinion-de-las-malvinas.html) as saying that the Falkland Islands, Las Malvinas, are Argentine, part of the Motherland.

http://ultimahoradiario.com.ar/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/islas-malvinas.jpg

2. He believes that the only acceptable place for a male to orgasm is in his wife's vagina.
3. He's stridently against rights for homosexuals, including prohibiting their marriage and even adoption of children by gay parents.
4. His parents are Italian immigrants to Argentina.
5. He only has one lung.
6. He is a Jesuit, which is fascinating to me, given this history (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominus_ac_Redemptor).

The Falklands/Malvinas thing could get very nasty if the economy continues to tank and Presidenta Kirchner keeps grousing and doing stuff like this:
http://www.cato.org/blog/argentina-bans-book-imports-due-human-health-concerns

[SeattleUte]

Religions led by very old white men seem to share the same defects.

I react to the coronation of a Pope as I do to the marriages of British royalty (I'm not old enough to have experienced any British king or queen coronation): mild irritation and extreme bewilderment that this empty and highly pompous and self-important event still means anything to anybody. Is it enought to make us care that the office of the Pope, like a king, is a living centuries old relic? I'm fine reading about it in books.

[NorthwestUteFan]

I think it is very interesting to have a 'black' Pope (Jesuits wear black robes).

I recall there was some sort of writing, revelation, or dictum from 600+ years ago which listed either a name or some other attribute of all the popes from that time until the Second Coming. One of the very last popes was said to be a 'black' pope.

I find this to be historically interesting, anyway.

[Devildog]

Pope Francis is an interesting character:


6. He is a Jesuit, which is fascinating to me, given this history (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominus_ac_Redemptor).



I think it is very interesting to have a 'black' Pope (Jesuits wear black robes).

I recall there was some sort of writing, revelation, or dictum from 600+ years ago which listed either a name or some other attribute of all the popes from that time until the Second Coming. One of the very last popes was said to be a 'black' pope.

I find this to be historically interesting, anyway.

What does the distinction of being a Jesuit mean?

[NorthwestUteFan]

What does the distinction of being a Jesuit mean?

I think SeattleUte would have some valuable input since he is a graduate of a Jesuit university, but I will try to add some info.

Jesuits are fascinating to me. They are very strongly supportive of the arts and education (both sciences and humanities) and Jesuit universities are among the highest quality education available. They are very strict and demanding in their beliefs and actions, almost to the point of being militant. In fact one of their nicknames is 'God's Marines', although that refers to Ignatius Loyola's military career priority to establishing the Society of Jesus.

Historically the Jesuits have been very strongly supportive of 'social justice' (a term that can be a pejorative today). Often they were at odds with European kings due to their strong support for the rights of native populations in foreign colonies, when Spain or Portugal wished to capture them and move them to Europe as slaves.

So there is a real dichotomy with this pope. There is a strong connection to and love for the common populace. His strong focus on education will help lift the Third World nations out of binding poverty. But on the other hand he is likely to be highly inflexible on certain church doctrines regarding sexuality (particularly birth control, vows of chastity for priests (IMHO they should allow priests to marry), and homosexuality).

[wuapinmon]

What does the distinction of being a Jesuit mean?


I think SeattleUte would have some valuable input since he is a graduate of a Jesuit university, but I will try to add some info.

Jesuits are fascinating to me. They are very strongly supportive of the arts and education (both sciences and humanities) and Jesuit universities are among the highest quality education available. They are very strict and demanding in their beliefs and actions, almost to the point of being militant. In fact one of their nicknames is 'God's Marines', although that refers to Ignatius Loyola's military career priority to establishing the Society of Jesus.

Historically the Jesuits have been very strongly supportive of 'social justice' (a term that can be a pejorative today). Often they were at odds with European kings due to their strong support for the rights of native populations in foreign colonies, when Spain or Portugal wished to capture them and move them to Europe as slaves.

So there is a real dichotomy with this pope. There is a strong connection to and love for the common populace. His strong focus on education will help lift the Third World nations out of binding poverty. But on the other hand he is likely to be highly inflexible on certain church doctrines regarding sexuality (particularly birth control, vows of chastity for priests (IMHO they should allow priests to marry), and homosexuality).

DD, this is a pretty good explanation. The Catholic Church allows priests to invest themselves in certain "orders" of the priesthood, orders that were no revealed by papal revelation, but rather, usually, by a theophanic experience by the founding member. Jesuits, Franciscan, Dominican, Trappists, Carmelites, and even Teutonic Knights are all 'orders' that involve taking solemn vows to keep the rules of the order. Orders can be divided into four classes: "Canons" are priests who go around preaching and serving in a pastoral sense, they 'belong' to a cathedral or congregation and seek to build up the spiritual well-being of the designated area, living from the tithing and support of the parish and Rome; "monks" or "monastic" which are priests who dedicate themselves to austerity and isolation, the life of a hermit, in order to bring about spiritual salvation--many mystics are monastics. They find that hard work, asceticism, and a belief that "by the sweat of their brows shall they eat" meaning that monastic orders receive no help from tithes or Rome; mendicants: Domincans and Franciscans are examples, they eschew all ownership of property and luxury, living from alms and spend the bulk of their lives and time preaching the Gospel and ministering to and working for the poor believing that they are emulating the life of Christ and living his example by doing so; the last type is "clerics" or those orders who dedicate themselves to the education, both religious and secular of the Church--they believe that they try to pattern their life and work around those of the Apostles. They differ from canons in that they do not 'belong' as it were to a church or cathedral, but rather work for educational, ministerial, and cultural organizations that they founded or have elected to participate in. Jesuits are clerics, first class clerics, really, the gold standard of their type of order. They derive their support from alms, tithes, Rome, income, investments, and donations. However, they profess poverty, and are famed for not seeking after riches the way that the canons and monastics are often viewed. Most of their wealth goes into social causes like schools, colleges, hospitals, and orphanages. They operate many farms in the third world where kids living on the street are taken in and given an education, including vocational training, and in return the kids work every day on the farm to earn money to support the operating costs.

I love the Jesuits. We had a Jesuit priest on the faculty at Tulane, and he took a leave of absence after Hurricane Katrina to spend every day working to help the poor. I love the Jesuits.

[Joe Public]

I know a guy from Argentina. He was pretty excited about this. He also is not Catholic.

[Devildog]

Wow.

I guess I asked the right guys.

Northwest Ute and Wuap... Thanks! That was a damn good little tutorial.

[mUUser]

The blow by blow coverage of the Pope's visit to America is stunning. Is there a more powerful or important world & religious leader?

[DrumNFeather]

The blow by blow coverage of the Pope's visit to America is stunning. Is there a more powerful or important world & religious leader?

DC has been buzzing for the last two days.

[LA Ute]

I think this is a nicely balanced and insightful take on Francis' visit:

The Two Sides of Pope Francis (http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-two-sides-of-pope-francis-1443140607?tesla=y)

[SeattleUte]

What does the distinction of being a Jesuit mean?

Atheists for Jesus.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Atheists for Jesus.

All of the compassion with none of the judgment.

[Ma'ake]

Thursday may have been the pinnacle of Boehner's career - he invited the Pope to speak to Congress, and was clearly moved by the message, maybe to the point of becoming a serious target of people like Limbaugh, who denigrates this Pope as a Marxist.

Friday, Boehner jumped out of the boiling oil. Good for him. I hope he writes a book.

[LA Ute]

If anyone you know gets rhapsodic about that "religion lite" Pope Francis Internet meme that's going around, you can tell them it's fake.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/popeatheist.asp


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[Ma'ake]

I work with a couple of disaffected Catholics, Mexican ladies who decided the Catholic church was basically a big scam. One grew up devout, then when her husband-to-be was taking the courses to get baptized so they could get married, she found she had serious issues with a lot of the material.

Anyway, I told them a year ago Pope Francis is good for the Catholic church, good for the people.

Neither of them are ready to become nuns, but suffice it to say Francis is having an impact, is prompting a lot of people to take a different look at things.

[Ma'ake]

Here's a pretty remarkable message from the Pope:
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865637758/Pope-to-bishops-Don7t-blame-others-for-gay-marriage-and-family-problems.html

This guy seems to really get it.

[LA Ute]

Here's a pretty remarkable message from the Pope:
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865637758/Pope-to-bishops-Don7t-blame-others-for-gay-marriage-and-family-problems.html

This guy seems to really get it.




“We need to invest our energies not so much in rehearsing the problems of the world around us and the merits of Christianity, but in extending a sincere invitation to young people to be brave and to opt for marriage and the family,” Francis told bishops gathered at a seminary here on Sunday morning, the final day of the pontiff’s grueling nine-day visit to Cuba and the U.S.

Sounds good to me.

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

Sounds good to me.

RIP Cool the Pope.