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UtahDan
03-25-2013, 10:23 AM
Answer: there would be if there was any money to be made talking about it.


Why does the outrage machine not crank up around the end of February to “take back Easter from the godless?”

After all, Easter is named after the Teutonic goddess of fertility, Eostre. So Walmart using the term “Happy Easter” isn’t playing up the Christian part of the holy day. Eggs are pagan symbols of fertility. Same with bunnies (as in “reproduce like a”). It’s ripe to accuse secularists of trying to make it more about spring and re-birth than Jesus’ resurrection.

So why haven’t they?

I’ll try to answer that with numbers. Americans spend about $16 billion on Easter ($2 billion just on candy) and on Black Friday (Friday named after the Anglo-Saxon goddess Frige), the day after Thanksgiving which marks the beginning of the Christmas buying season, Americans spend around $52 billion. In total we spend in the area of $500 billion on Christmas.

There is a “war on Christmas” because there are spoils to be had over Christmas. There’s a giant Christmas pie and each slice is worth fighting for. If Easter raked in nearly half a trillion in sales, the outragemeisters would suddenly claim it was under attack by pagans trying to obscure the Christian message by making it about pastel colored eggs.


http://www.cagle.com/2013/03/why-isnt-there-a-war-on-easter/

LA Ute
03-27-2013, 09:42 PM
There is no War on Easter because books like this one (http://ia700303.us.archive.org/4/items/ThisGodlessCommunism/treasure2.pdf) succeeded in educating American schoolchildren about the threat of godlessness. The generation that read such materials rose to leadership in the 90s and still holds great sway over the country's culture and government policy. Thank heaven.

480ute
04-04-2013, 06:43 PM
There is no War on Easter because books like this one (http://ia700303.us.archive.org/4/items/ThisGodlessCommunism/treasure2.pdf) succeeded in educating American schoolchildren about the threat of godlessness. The generation that read such materials rose to leadership in the 90s and still holds great sway over the country's culture and government policy. Thank heaven.
Maybe I'm taking this the wrong way, but how is propaganda like this a good thing? I detest communism, but I am "Godless", and I don't see how the two go hand in hand. IMHO, many of our problems stem from the fact that we have so many career politicians that don't know how to separate their faith from their political beliefs.

Rocker Ute
04-04-2013, 06:47 PM
Maybe I'm taking this the wrong way, but how is propaganda like this a good thing? I detest communism, but I am "Godless", and I don't see how the two go hand in hand. IMHO, many of our problems stem from the fact that we have so many career politicians that don't know how to separate their faith from their political beliefs.

This sounds exactly like something a COMMUNIST might say... LET'S GET HIM LA!!!

480ute
04-04-2013, 06:51 PM
This sounds exactly like something a COMMUNIST might say... LET'S GET HIM LA!!!
Did you know: Red Dawn is my third favorite motion picture behind Con Air, and Road House, respectively.

Rocker Ute
04-04-2013, 06:51 PM
Red Dawn is my third favorite motion picture behind Con Air, and Road House, respectively.

Of course it is comrade.

480ute
04-04-2013, 06:55 PM
Of course it is comrade.
True fact: I asked for my hair to be cut like Ivan Drago immediately after seeing Rocky IV. I was five years old, and my dad couldn't say no. I've got a picture around here somewhere, and if I can find it I will post it.

Rocker Ute
04-04-2013, 06:57 PM
True fact: I asked for my hair to be cut like Ivan Drago immediately after seeing Rocky IV. I was five years old, and my dad couldn't say no. I've got a picture around here somewhere, and if I can find it I will proudly post it.

I'd always assumed you looked like Dolph Lundgren. Speaking of which, Dolph is what we called my wood shop teacher.

Diehard Ute
04-04-2013, 06:58 PM
Maybe I'm taking this the wrong way, but how is propaganda like this a good thing? I detest communism, but I am "Godless", and I don't see how the two go hand in hand. IMHO, many of our problems stem from the fact that we have so many career politicians that don't know how to separate their faith from their political beliefs.

Senator Valentine, paging Senator Valentine, please pick up a white courtesy phone

480ute
04-04-2013, 07:04 PM
I'd always assumed you looked like Dolph Lundgren. Speaking of which, Dolph is what we called my wood shop teacher.
Everybody thinks I'm this big time liberal American hating commie, because I'm pro gay marriage, own a bidet, and admire Soviet hair styles. They forget that Patrick Swayze is my idol, and I sat on my daddy's shoulders at the Queen Mary in Long Beach watching Ronald Reagan give a speech in support of Presidential candidate George Bush way back in 1988. I love me some 'murica.

GarthUte
04-04-2013, 08:11 PM
Maybe I'm taking this the wrong way, but how is propaganda like this a good thing? I detest communism, but I am "Godless", and I don't see how the two go hand in hand. IMHO, many of our problems stem from the fact that we have so many career politicians that don't know how to separate their faith from their political beliefs.

Perhaps people equate godlessness with communism because the most prominent communists of the 20th century - Stalin and Mao - were atheists. And history tells us that those two didn't much believe in liberty for the citizens that they ruled with iron fists.

480ute
04-04-2013, 10:03 PM
Perhaps people equate godlessness with communism because the most prominent communists of the 20th century - Stalin and Mao - were atheists. And history tells us that those two didn't much believe in liberty for the citizens that they ruled with iron fists.
That, and the fact that we printed mounds of propaganda linking the two so that no American would make the mistake of separating them. I have agreed, on threads on this site, with people who were bashing arrogant atheists, but it's a two way street. This idea that faith automatically makes somebody a better person is preposterous, and insulting. And the fact that many people, in this day and age, still fall in line with the thought that a lack of belief in a higher being somehow aligns that person with a political ideology is maddening.

Jarid in Cedar
04-04-2013, 10:18 PM
That, and the fact that we printed mounds of propaganda linking the two so that no American would make the mistake of separating them. I have agreed, on threads on this site, with people who were bashing arrogant atheists, but it's a two way street. This idea that faith automatically makes somebody a better person is preposterous, and insulting. And the fact that many people, in this day and age, still fall in line with the thought that a lack of belief in a higher being somehow aligns that person with a political ideology is maddening.


Here are two of the most correct statements on this site. :clap:

Jarid in Cedar
04-04-2013, 10:23 PM
There is no War on Easter because books like this one (http://ia700303.us.archive.org/4/items/ThisGodlessCommunism/treasure2.pdf) succeeded in educating American schoolchildren about the threat of godlessness. The generation that read such materials rose to leadership in the 90s and still holds great sway over the country's culture and government policy. Thank heaven.


I find more threat from religion and zealotry than the godless. See the Westboro Baptist's, al quaeda, etc. In fact, I openly question the concept that godlessness is a real threat to any society. If you question this, look at the French. When was the last time that they were any real threat to anyone else?

480ute
04-04-2013, 10:30 PM
I find more threat from religion and zealotry than the godless. See the Westboro Baptist's, al quaeda, etc. In fact, I openly question the concept that godlessness is a real threat to any society. If you question this, look at the French. When was the last time that they were any real threat to anyone else?
We're either all too busy getting stoned and browsing reddit to do any real damage, or we are immoral scumbags on an undying quest to change America for the worse. We just can't win.

LA Ute
04-04-2013, 11:07 PM
There is no War on Easter because books like this one (http://ia700303.us.archive.org/4/items/ThisGodlessCommunism/treasure2.pdf) succeeded in educating American schoolchildren about the threat of godlessness. The generation that read such materials rose to leadership in the 90s and still holds great sway over the country's culture and government policy. Thank heaven.

Does everyone realize that this post was 100% TIC?

480ute
04-04-2013, 11:26 PM
Does everyone realize that this post was 100% TIC?
I'd feel like a complete sack of nuts right now if I hadn't prefaced my first post with "Maybe I'm taking this the wrong way, but..." :)

GarthUte
04-05-2013, 09:05 AM
That, and the fact that we printed mounds of propaganda linking the two so that no American would make the mistake of separating them. I have agreed, on threads on this site, with people who were bashing arrogant atheists, but it's a two way street. This idea that faith automatically makes somebody a better person is preposterous, and insulting. And the fact that many people, in this day and age, still fall in line with the thought that a lack of belief in a higher being somehow aligns that person with a political ideology is maddening.

I agree with you that faith doesn't make someone a better person; I also agree that lack of belief in God would align someone with a political ideology. I was only trying to find a reason why that kind of propaganda would be released, particularly at that time in history. Propaganda is used all the time by every side of the political or social spectrum. Humans are just that way.

I also agree that it's a two-way street; a belief in God doesn't align one with a political ideology, nor does it mean that a political ideology rejects science, but that's another topic for another day.

GUBA
04-05-2013, 09:37 AM
Ironically Easter is largely a non- event in Utah. No mandatory day off from work, little mention in schools and little activity aside from the odd Easter egg hunt here and there.

LA Ute
04-05-2013, 09:56 AM
I'd feel like a complete sack of nuts right now if I hadn't prefaced my first post with "Maybe I'm taking this the wrong way, but..." :)

It's happened to me too. I'll have to remember to use more of these: ;)

Solon
04-05-2013, 11:42 AM
Answer: there would be if there was any money to be made talking about it.



http://www.cagle.com/2013/03/why-isnt-there-a-war-on-easter/

I'm so sick of the lazy reporting that claims "Easter' is named for Eostre. That shit comes from Bede - ca 700 CE.
It's ISHTAR, dammit. Or ASTARTE, if you like. It goes waaaaaaaay back to the Ancient Near East (3000+ BCE)
Get that "Teutonic goddess" corn out of my face.

That's it. I'm declaring a war on Easter.

480ute
04-05-2013, 12:04 PM
I agree with you that faith doesn't make someone a better person; I also agree that lack of belief in God would align someone with a political ideology. I was only trying to find a reason why that kind of propaganda would be released, particularly at that time in history. Propaganda is used all the time by every side of the political or social spectrum. Humans are just that way.

I also agree that it's a two-way street; a belief in God doesn't align one with a political ideology, nor does it mean that a political ideology rejects science, but that's another topic for another day.
You just keep fighting the good fight against Comcast and let me handle the Communists. :)

GarthUte
04-05-2013, 12:15 PM
You just keep fighting the good fight against Comcast and let me handle the Communists. :)

:highfive:

jrj84105
04-05-2013, 03:37 PM
Here are two of the most correct statements on this site. :clap:

I need a history lesson here. I've always been confused as to how totalitarianism, communism, and atheism got to be one thing, and capitalism, democracy, and theism came to be another. It always seemed to me that theism would be more likely to cluster with totalitarianism and communism due to shared acceptance of hierarchical systems and coalescence of omnicience/omnipotence in the few/elect rather than the many. I also wonder how Communism got the top bill for the evil triad rather than totalitarianism as totalitarianism seems more antithetical to American values than communism. Just something that I've never really understood.

woot
04-06-2013, 07:50 AM
I need a history lesson here. I've always been confused as to how totalitarianism, communism, and atheism got to be one thing, and capitalism, democracy, and theism came to be another. It always seemed to me that theism would be more likely to cluster with totalitarianism and communism due to shared acceptance of hierarchical systems and coalescence of omnicience/omnipotence in the few/elect rather than the many. I also wonder how Communism got the top bill for the evil triad rather than totalitarianism as totalitarianism seems more antithetical to American values than communism. Just something that I've never really understood.

From what little I know, it seems that atheism and communism worked well together because communism could become the state religion, and the dictator (Stalin, Mao) the object of worship. Religion helped HItler motivate his folks just fine, so the atheism/communism combo doesn't seem to be a requirement for megalomaniacal mass murder. Some sort of unquestionable dogma does seem to be necessary to some degree, whether it's communism/dictator worship or more standard religion.

LA Ute
04-06-2013, 09:22 AM
From what little I know, it seems that atheism and communism worked well together because communism could become the state religion, and the dictator (Stalin, Mao) the object of worship. Religion helped HItler motivate his folks just fine, so the atheism/communism combo doesn't seem to be a requirement for megalomaniacal mass murder. Some sort of unquestionable dogma does seem to be necessary to some degree, whether it's communism/dictator worship or more standard religion.

I don't think Hitler or the Nazi Party were religion-friendly.

http://www.abc.net.au/religion/articles/2012/04/18/3480312.htm

woot
04-06-2013, 09:46 AM
I don't think Hitler or the Nazi Party were religion-friendly.

http://www.abc.net.au/religion/articles/2012/04/18/3480312.htm

That's a debate that's been beaten into the ground, so my interest in it is small. There's simply no denying that Hitler very frequently used religious rhetoric. It's also true that Nazism itself became a controlling dogma in much the same way as happened under Stalin, but Christian rhetoric remained a big part. It's mostly an academic question anyway; it's already well established that non-religious dogma is sufficient. In this case, Hitler just helped things along by "building on common beliefs".

LA Ute
04-06-2013, 10:19 AM
That's a debate that's been beaten into the ground, so my interest in it is small. There's simply no denying that Hitler very frequently used religious rhetoric. It's also true that Nazism itself became a controlling dogma in much the same way as happened under Stalin, but Christian rhetoric remained a big part. It's mostly an academic question anyway; it's already well established that non-religious dogma is sufficient. In this case, Hitler just helped things along by "building on common beliefs".

Lol, quite true. Hitler is the greatest cipher in history, to which critics of anything (including critics of both atheism and religion) can liken the object of their disdain. It does seem to me that Hitler and his cronies used religion when it was useful to them, and also came down hard on religious people who stepped out of line. Just like other power-hungry types throughout history.

Solon
03-23-2016, 11:07 AM
Why is the Friday before Easter called "Good Friday"?
Shouldn't it be called "Bad Friday"?

I understand, there's the whole redemption of the world angle etc. etc., but still - that particular Friday wasn't exactly a blue-ribbon day for Jesus and the Christians.

It it should be called "Bad Friday".

Dwight Schr-Ute
03-23-2016, 11:53 AM
Why is the Friday before Easter called "Good Friday"?
Shouldn't it be called "Bad Friday"?

I understand, there's the whole redemption of the world angle etc. etc., but still - that particular Friday wasn't exactly a blue-ribbon day for Jesus and the Christians.

It it should be called "Bad Friday".

Maybe because everything went down on Thursday instead.

http://ldsmag.com/the-real-day-of-jesus-death/

(Haven't read. Just had seen it posted on FB earlier.)


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Solon
03-23-2016, 12:47 PM
Maybe because everything went down on Thursday instead.

http://ldsmag.com/the-real-day-of-jesus-death/

(Haven't read. Just had seen it posted on FB earlier.)


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LOL. That's rich. I'm guessing that this guy isn't going to get much traction with this, even if he is a Big Shot at the byu.

Romans, Greeks, and other ancients counted inclusively, starting with 1. They didn't have 0. So, a child was born on his "first" birthday, meaning the child was aged one at birth.
So, this guy's reference to Luke 24 that says, "Today [Sunday] is the third day since the crucifixion" can't point to a Thursday; only a Friday. Sunday is the fourth day since Thursday.

I'm not really going to engage with the Jerusalem vs. America time-zone stuff.

Also, I'm going with BAD FRIDAY!

Diehard Ute
03-23-2016, 01:28 PM
LOL. That's rich. I'm guessing that this guy isn't going to get much traction with this, even if he is a Big Shot at the byu.

Romans, Greeks, and other ancients counted inclusively, starting with 1. They didn't have 0. So, a child was born on his "first" birthday, meaning the child was aged one at birth.
So, this guy's reference to Luke 24 that says, "Today [Sunday] is the third day since the crucifixion" can't point to a Thursday; only a Friday. Sunday is the fourth day since Thursday.

I'm not really going to engage with the Jerusalem vs. America time-zone stuff.

Also, I'm going with BAD FRIDAY!

Having been raised Protestant (with two aunts who are ordained Presbyterian ministers) before learning to go the correct way (that's avoid religion like the plague) it can't be Thursday regardless of counting issues.

Thursday is "Maundy Thursday" which is the day the last supper was held and Jesus was betrayed.

As for "Good Friday" Good used to mean "Holy" and thus the name was really "Holy Friday"


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Solon
03-23-2016, 06:11 PM
Having been raised Protestant (with two aunts who are ordained Presbyterian ministers) before learning to go the correct way (that's avoid religion like the plague) it can't be Thursday regardless of counting issues.

Thursday is "Maundy Thursday" which is the day the last supper was held and Jesus was betrayed.

As for "Good Friday" Good used to mean "Holy" and thus the name was really "Holy Friday"


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Thanks, Diehard.


Bad Friday is horrible. There's no poetry in it, and it's disrespectful.

I didn't read the article, so I'm happy to side with you vs the BYU guy. He's hardly the first to suggest it, though. Thurs/Fri has been an open question for a long time. It is, of course, a completely pointless debate.

What do historians mean when they say "such and such civilization didn't have 0"? It's not like they didn't understand the concept of having nothing. Are we just talking about the formal introduction of 0 into the language? The Greeks used 0 in engineering and geometry whether they knew it or not.

I mean no disrespect, but I also think "Good Friday" is a misnomer. Remember, this thread is for the War on Easter!

As for the concept of 0, I'm no mathematician but my understanding is that the Greeks & Romans didn't have dedicated numbers (they used letters for numbers) and hence had no place-value. Besides the clunkiness of their number-systems, it was difficult conceptually to explain how "nothing" could be "something". If we used letters instead of numbers to count with, we would start with the letter "A" - that is, the first letter, or number 1. It made sense for them to start at the beginning (with 1).

Obviously they were capable of dealing with negative numbers, fractions, etc., but in terms of counting, they started with 1.

LA Ute
03-23-2016, 06:42 PM
:snack:

Solon
03-24-2016, 03:31 PM
:snack:
LOL at LA Ute.
Entertained by a discussion of ancient numeration.

Next, sancho and I are going to go out for pizza in order to discuss uses of the dative case in Hellenistic epic. You should totally come!

BTW, "Maundy Thursday" is a nice piece of new information that has improved my day.
My kidding about whether or not tomorrow is a "Good" day ("Holy" works so much better, Diehard) aside, I wish everyone a peaceful and happy Easter season, regardless of creed/belief.

hostile
03-24-2016, 07:04 PM
LOL at LA Ute.
Entertained by a discussion of ancient numeration.

Next, sancho and I are going to go out for pizza in order to discuss uses of the dative case in Hellenistic epic. You should totally come!

BTW, "Maundy Thursday" is a nice piece of new information that has improved my day.
My kidding about whether or not tomorrow is a "Good" day ("Holy" works so much better, Diehard) aside, I wish everyone a peaceful and happy Easter season, regardless of creed/belief.

I don't call it Good Friday; I call it Great Friday. My office considers that day a holiday which means I usually don't have any work that day.

Solon
03-28-2016, 08:30 AM
I don't call it Good Friday; I call it Great Friday. My office considers that day a holiday which means I usually don't have any work that day.
My kids were super bummed this morning when they figured out that next Easter is over 380 days away.

That darned lunar calendar & Equinox stuff!!!