The Higher Education Thread

[LA Ute]

This is a thread about higher ed, including professional schools like medicine, dentristry, law, and business. I think we can have some interesting discussions here about all of that. We even have a professor or two among our ranks.

I'll start with this:

The Golf Shot Heard Round the Academic World (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324100904578404502145771288.html?m od=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop)


Funded by Mr. Klingenstein, researchers from the National Association of Scholars studied speeches by Bowdoin presidents and deans, formal statements of the college's principles, official faculty reports and notes of faculty meetings, academic course lists and syllabi, books and articles by professors, the archive of the Bowdoin Orient newspaper and more. They analyzed the school's history back to its founding in 1794, focusing on the past 45 years—during which, they argue, Bowdoin's character changed dramatically for the worse.

Published Wednesday, the report demonstrates how Bowdoin has become an intellectual monoculture dedicated above all to identity politics....


The Klingenstein report nicely captures the illiberal or fallacious aspects of this campus doctrine, but the paper’s true contribution is in recording some of its absurd manifestations at Bowdoin. For example, the college has “no curricular requirements that center on the American founding or the history of the nation.” Even history majors aren’t required to take a single course in American history. In the History Department, no course is devoted to American political, military, diplomatic or intellectual history—the only ones available are organized around some aspect of race, class, gender or sexuality.


One of the few requirements is that Bowdoin students take a yearlong freshman seminar. Some of the 37 seminars offered this year: “Affirmative Action and U.S. Society,” “Fictions of Freedom,” “Racism,” “Queer Gardens” (which “examines the work of gay and lesbian gardeners and traces how marginal identities find expression in specific garden spaces”), “Sexual Life of Colonialism” and “Modern Western Prostitutes.”

Regarding Bowdoin professors, the report estimates that “four or five out of approximately 182 full-time faculty members might be described as politically conservative.” In the 2012 election cycle, 100% of faculty donations went to President Obama.

I'm one of those conservatives who supports and thinks he understands higher education. One aspect of attending the U. of U. that I loved and am grateful for is the exposure it gave me to different ideas, different worldviews, and the like. I feel I had a truly liberal education, in the classical sense. I want that for all my kids. But based on the above I wouldn't want to fork out the money necessary for a Bowdoin education.

[Solon]

That was a good read. Thanks for posting, LA_Ute

I'm the first to agree that there's a lot of BS in today's Academy, and it sounds like Bowdoin has some big problems, but the article's injection of liberal/conservative politics to suggest that those with liberal politics are somehow unpatriotic is nonsense.

This paragraph is particularly galling:
The school's ideological pillars would likely be familiar to anyone who has paid attention to American higher education lately. There's the obsession with race, class, gender and sexuality as the essential forces of history and markers of political identity. There's the dedication to "sustainability," or saving the planet from its imminent destruction by the forces of capitalism. And there are the paeans to "global citizenship," or loving all countries except one's own.

These are the issues of our day. Of course the Academy should be fostering debate on them.
Obviously, we should condemn one-sidedness (from those in either political camp), but the fundamental elements of a college education aren't just swallowing information (you can do that for free at wikipedia). It's learning to engage and to interpret and to rationally inquire into things like cause/effect, ethics, values, justice, and to solve problems using this information. Only a poor professor would insist that all students agree with him/her personally. The students should learn to draw their own rationally based conclusions from their own critical analyses. There are plenty of so-called "conservative" colleges where rational debate in certain fields is discouraged. These deserve the same condemnation as the departments offering lame fluff-classes to promote social agendas (and, really, to bump enrollments).

In response to the condemnation of Bowdoin's History offerings, it sounds like that school has some real problems. But the Gen. Ed requirements at most colleges & universities today require some type of US History or Civics course to familiarize students with the basics of American history and the ethics & values of America's political system (nevermind that US students should have learned all this in High School). Bowdoin College aside, there's a healthy amount of effort that goes into fulfilling this requirement at many universities, sometimes to the detriment of the program's overall health (i.e., a bunch of highly educated people teaching course after course of high-school-level US history).

Second, for better or for worse, the overall trend in History Departments today is away from political or national histories per se, since these institutions are often anachronistic to the place/time in question. Plus, historians are often affected by the pressing issues of their own times, and these issues are projected into their inquires into the past. For instance, the 1960s saw a proliferation of monographs about race/ethnicity in historical contexts. The 1970s witnessed more studies about women's issues and history in the past. In the 1980s & 1990s, it was economic theories & gender studies. Today, it's about trans-nationalism, migration, and memory in a rapidly changing world. For better or for worse, the questions historians are asking are closely tied to the questions working through contemporary society. In a sense, this relationship between the past and present is a strong justification for the reasons why we study history, that is we study history in order to better understand ourselves.

In this sense, it is absolutely relevant to focus on the "Identity" component of historical inquiry. Furthermore, the underlying assumption of a shared US identity is increasingly coming under attack. More and more, I think, we can identify a 'Western' ethos in the liberal democratic societies of today, but the deconstruction of the US foundation myths isn't just gratuitous iconoclasm, it's a realization that the experiences of rich, white, educated (mostly male) people aren't the historical norm in the US or any other country. Other people's stories bring texture, depth, variety, and context to the narrative. Don't get me wrong. Students should still learn the basics of US history, especially those values/ethics components that connect back to the ancients and forward to the present, but women's history, African American history, Native American history, etc. are relevant voices too.

[LA Ute]

That was a good read. Thanks for posting, LA_Ute

I'm the first to agree that there's a lot of BS in today's Academy, and it sounds like Bowdoin has some big problems, but the article's injection of liberal/conservative politics to suggest that those with liberal politics are somehow unpatriotic is nonsense....

In this sense, it is absolutely relevant to focus on the "Identity" component of historical inquiry. Furthermore, the underlying assumption of a shared US identity is increasingly coming under attack. More and more, I think, we can identify a 'Western' ethos in the liberal democratic societies of today, but the deconstruction of the US foundation myths isn't just gratuitous iconoclasm, it's a realization that the experiences of rich, white, educated (mostly male) people aren't the historical norm in the US or any other country. Other people's stories bring texture, depth, variety, and context to the narrative. Don't get me wrong. Students should still learn the basics of US history, especially those values/ethics components that connect back to the ancients and forward to the present, but women's history, African American history, Native American history, etc. are relevant voices too.

Thanks, with that added perspective you've taken the sharp edge off my annoyance at Bowdoin. I also think the WSJ piece was a bit too right-wing in its criticisms. Still, I'm concerned about what I see as a tendency for universities to be ideologically one-dimensional. My son took a social-behavioral science course at the U. last fall and shared with me the study guide for the final exam. In the guide the professor supplied the "right" answers to the questions. Those answers read like a Saturday Night Live parody of a left-wing college professor's world view on controversial issues. If I can find it I'll share it with you. Stuff like that just seems intellectually dishonest to me. I still like the idea of the university being a place where ideas collide and are analyzed, and thinking is prized over orthodoxy.

EDIT: I also think what the American Founders accomplished was terribly and globally important and deserves study, even if they were white privileged males. ;)

[LA Ute]

I'd just like to talk with my kids (and their generation) about Shakespeare's great tragedies and not get blank stares.

[wuapinmon]

I'd just like to talk with my kids (and their generation) about Shakespeare's great tragedies and not get blank stares.

And people of a century ago felt the same way about Plato and Xenophon.

I understand the ideas behind Great Books. I think it's discouraging that someone can graduate from Coker College without ever having taken a single history course. There are some classes that make me scratch my head, but the level of inspection of themes and ideas has never been broader. While I scratch my head at a course on gay gardening for credit, I don't know the syllabus, I don't know the way the topic is approached, and I don't know the way the course is credited. I do know that it's easy to go WTF at course titles, but there are many ways that that course might be beneficial. For example, have the dual incomes of homosexuals allowed them to revitalize the urban garden (or rooftop, or suburban)? If so, are we reading the gardens as texts. Gardens have long histories, including significant religious ones, is the course examining the history of gardens vis as vis modernism, via queer theory, via nature theory?

These kids come to me at 18 cocksure, overblown, yet asking for permission to use the bathroom and sharpen their pencils, confident that their parents had it all figured out. I'd like for them to get outside of their comfort zone and study things that make them uncomfortable, that make them question everything, that make them learn new systems and cultures.

They get a steady diet of teaching to the test about curriculum standards in high school. College shouldn't be about that (though the accrediting bodies are flexing ever more muscle as legislators require proof of "mission" from the public higher-ed schools.

For Liberal Arts required credit (they make choose options from 'baskets' like "Humanities," "Cultural Diversity," "Natural Sciences," "Behavioral Sciences," "Arts," and "the United States.") I teach or have taught courses called, "US Latinos" (United States), "Reggae, Rastafari, and Robert Nesta Marley" (elective), "Banana cultivation and Latin-American Literature" (Cultural Diversity), "Spain: Culture & Civ" (Humanities), "Latin American: Culture & Civ" (Cultural Diversity), "Latin American Literature" (Cultural Diversity), Latin-American Film (elective), and Afro-Hispano Literature & Culture (Cultural Diversity).

I use the Socratic Method when I teach. I'm also not convinced that a curriculum built around identity politics is necessarily a bad thing. While it certainly differs from what's been done in the past, evolution often requires a culling of that which no longer keeps up. Kids don't want Great Books classes, legislators and parents want them.

I just want kids to be intellectually curious, but until we disrupt public education at the primary and secondary levels, we'll be waiting for that to return like a certain carpenter.

[LA Ute]

Very informative, wuap. As a parting curmudgeonly note on this subject. I didn't want to study Shakespeare either, until I had a teacher who made him live for me.

[Harry Tic]

I'd just like to talk with my kids (and their generation) about Shakespeare's great tragedies and not get blank stares.

This is right on. It astounds me how culturally illiterate young people are today. Nothing can get me to go into cranky old man mode faster than talking to someone in their early 20s who has no idea about the fall of the Berlin Wall or who Fidel Castro is. Hell, I'd be happy if they could get an occasional Seinfeld reference.

[tooblue]

I just want kids to be intellectually curious, but until we disrupt public education at the primary and secondary levels, we'll be waiting for that to return like a certain carpenter.

This statement perfectly illustrates the real problem. Who’s lead do you think primary and secondary education follows? Curriculum is a top down phenomenon. Those who write it were trained in the hallowed halls of academia, subject to liberal education in copious amounts. Standardized curriculum and testing is ultimately a consequence. The real question is, is it a type of rebellion?

You may be right about one thing. The culling is coming but it may not be what you think:

http://www.wired.com/business/2013/02/mf-clayton-christensen-wants-to-transform-capitalism/


Howe: If you had to list some industries right now that are either in a state of disruptive crisis or will be soon, what would they be?

Christensen: Journalism, certainly, and publishing broadly. Anything supported by advertising. That all of this is being disrupted is now beyond question. And then I think higher education is just on the edge of the crevasse. Generally, universities are doing very well financially, so they don’t feel from the data that their world is going to collapse. But I think even five years from now these enterprises are going to be in real trouble.

Christensen: The availability of online learning. It will take root in its simplest applications, then just get better and better. You know, Harvard Business School doesn’t teach accounting anymore, because there’s a guy out of BYU whose online accounting course is so good. He is extraordinary, and our accounting faculty, on average, is average.

Howe: What happens to all our institutions of advanced learning?

Christensen: Some will survive. Most will evolve hybrid models, in which universities license some courses from an online provider like Coursera but then provide more-specialized courses in person. Hybrids are actually a principle regardless of industry. If you want to use a new technology in a mainstream existing market, it has to be a hybrid. It’s like the electric car. If you want to have a viable electric car, you have to ask if there is a market where the customers want a car that won’t go far or fast. The answer is, parents of teenagers would love to put their teens in a car that won’t go far or fast. Little by little, the technology will emerge to take it on longer trips. But if you want to have this new technology employed on the California freeways right now, it has to be a hybrid like a Prius, where you take the best of the old with the best of the new.

---------


It’s not that established players can’t see the disruptions coming; they almost always do.

http://www.wired.com/opinion/2013/02/beyond-the-mooc-buzz-where-are-they-going-really/

[Solon]

This is right on. It astounds me how culturally illiterate young people are today. Nothing can get me to go into cranky old man mode faster than talking to someone in their early 20s who has no idea about the fall of the Berlin Wall or who Fidel Castro is. Hell, I'd be happy if they could get an occasional Seinfeld reference.

I also feel like a "you kids get off my lawn" old man, but the ease of acquiring information has both spoiled and empowered this generation of college kids to an amazing degree, and I think educators are still trying to catch up. My students can find information in a flash. They have a harder time assessing the reliability of that information. They have a really hard time interpreting that information to formulate independent or original analysis.

The information is important, but I've learned that students can always get information. I'm much more interested in training students to think. This realization has radically altered the way I teach.

[Scratch]

I'm fine with this thread as long as no one questions the value of three of my law school courses: Law and Film, Space Law, and Just War Theory. I didn't try to get into The Book of Job or Law in Japanese Literature.

[tooblue]

This statement perfectly illustrates the real problem. Who’s lead do you think primary and secondary education follows? Curriculum is a top down phenomenon. Those who write it were trained in the hallowed halls of academia, subject to liberal education in copious amounts. Standardized curriculum and testing is ultimately a consequence. The real question is, is it a type of rebellion?

You may be right about one thing. The culling is coming but it may not be what you think:

http://www.wired.com/business/2013/02/mf-clayton-christensen-wants-to-transform-capitalism/



---------



http://www.wired.com/opinion/2013/02/beyond-the-mooc-buzz-where-are-they-going-really/

I shared this video elsewhere. It's applicable:


http://vimeo.com/29485820

[tooblue]

I also feel like a "you kids get off my lawn" old man, but the ease of acquiring information has both spoiled and empowered this generation of college kids to an amazing degree, and I think educators are still trying to catch up. My students can find information in a flash. They have a harder time assessing the reliability of that information. They have a really hard time interpreting that information to formulate independent or original analysis.

The information is important, but I've learned that students can always get information. I'm much more interested in training students to think. This realization has radically altered the way I teach.

Being a lowly Community College professor hired because of my success in my respective industry and with a mere MFA, that I recently earned, I may to be qualified to fully comment in this thread. Yet, your lament above strikes me as all too familiar and astute. Though, it's more than an inability to interpret or analyze information in my experience. The conundrum, as I see it, is a lack of self-awareness among my students. Virtually everything they submit in the form of research or project work is relational to their contemporary culture. If an idea cannot be distilled into a popular meme is has no influence on their perception of reality.

The goal for me as a post-secondary educator is not only to get them to think, but to awaken a primal creative capacity that seems to be lying dormant. It's difficult. There are only so many derivative designs or works of art that can be created based upon The Walking Dead.

[wuapinmon]

This statement perfectly illustrates the real problem. Who’s lead do you think primary and secondary education follows? Curriculum is a top down phenomenon. Those who write it were trained in the hallowed halls of academia, subject to liberal education in copious amounts. Standardized curriculum and testing is ultimately a consequence.

Pedagogues and Ed.D. are a special breed bureaucrats and Napoleons combined. They don't give two shits about the Liberal Arts. If they had it their way they'd only teach 4 years of education classes.

Since SACS began assessment standardization what has happened to primary and secondary education? It's gone to shit in this country. That you think that the consequence of copious amounts of Liberal Arts education is the cause of standardized curricula indicates to me that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

[tooblue]

Pedagogues and Ed.D. are a special breed bureaucrats and Napoleons combined. They don't give two shits about the Liberal Arts. If they had it their way they'd only teach 4 years of education classes.

Since SACS began assessment standardization what has happened to primary and secondary education? It's gone to shit in this country. That you think that the consequence of copious amounts of Liberal Arts education is the cause of standardized curricula indicates to me that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

My thoughts are speculation based upon personal experience as a curriculum specialist in my particular area of concern. I am on record in support of liberal arts. Hence I chose to pursue a masters and a PhD in the liberal arts. Perhaps you are reading into my comments what you want to read in place of what is written. Your emphatic use of vulgarity is telling. Regardless, curriculum is a top down phenomenon. And there are many types of Pedagogues directing it, present company included.

[tooblue]

The death of the university at the hands of the internet is a very popular prophesy these days. The New York Times seems to have an article every other week on the subject. I hope they are wrong, or at least that they are wrong on how fast it will come.

I don't see it as death per se, more an evolution through natural selection. It's happening quickly but, not as quickly as the media has prophesied.

[UtahDan]

I don't see it as death per se, more an evolution through natural selection. It's happening quickly but, not as quickly as the media has prophesied.

I hope you can leave space for people to believe that this process you are describing is divinely guided, either directly or using this "natural selection" you speak of. ;)

[tooblue]

I hope you can leave space for people to believe that this process you are describing is divinely guided, either directly or using this "natural selection" you speak of. ;)

I will do my best; kindness is my religion afterall :p It's kind of ironic that I bring up the issue of curriculum being a top down phenomenon and it is almost immediately railed against. It reminds me of similar arguments concerning some other large organization and correlation ;)

[concerned]

Anybody see celebrity apprentice last night? Dennis Rodman got fired because he mispelled the first name of Donald Trump's wife on a skin care product line she was developing. A big no-no.

How does that apply to this thread, you ask? A cannon is a big gun; a howitzer. A canon is an ecclesiastical law, a standard, a classic. its also a camera that competes with Nikon.

[LA Ute]

Anybody see celebrity apprentice last night? Dennis Rodman got fired because he mispelled the first name of Donald Trump's wife on a skin care product line she was developing. A big no-no.

How does that apply to this thread, you ask? A cannon is a big gun; a howitzer. A canon is an ecclesiastical law, a standard, a classic. its also a camera that competes with Nikon.

Now you're turning people who make minor spelling errors into canon fodder.

[wuapinmon]

Your emphatic use of vulgarity is telling.

It should be telling you the low esteem in which I hold your opinion about these matters; I don't cuss pro forma. You're conflating the two different realms, primary/secondary and higher education. The Pedagogues were allowed to apply philological principles to the study of their field, and we let them do it. Whereas a simple (used loosely) math degree used to suffice, now you have to have a math education degree, and essentially pay tuition to be an apprentice during your senior year. What has their professionalization of the profession accomplished? Lower results in a straight line downward. Then they insinuated themselves into the accrediting bodies. Starting the 1960's, legislators began asking publics to demonstrate that they were indeed 'educating' people, and the die was cast. The pedagogues, in fulfillment of their highest aspirations as Sith Lords of the Acedemy, began with standardized tests, and when that became privatized (and subsequently shown to be worthless), then SACS stepped in in 1985 and began demanding "assessment" and "learning outcomes." This moved up the food chain in the late 80's when the federal government, through no small amount of lobbying by the accrediting bodies, ordered that only accredited institutions could receive federal financial aid. SACS conversion to the Dark Side became complete when HW Bush signed that into law.

Our syllabi are now contracts and have to have all these addenda that no one reads because SACS says so. I cannot teach a course in Portuguese, even though I speak it fluently, and have 14 years of language education experience, because I do not have 18 graduate hours in the language, even though I have a PhD. These SACS reports read like Soviet Five Year Plans. "Students will know the difference between X and Y" instead of "Student should know." We have to write them like that. They are almost worthless (the lone value being that it makes me wonder if I'm doing enough in class). In order to teach my reggae class, I have to write an essay to put into a file about why and how I am qualified to teach a course. A copy of my credentials is attached to each syllabus and put into a file so that the SACS auditors can come every 5 years and audit us (according to their rules). They have no oversight. We cannot resist or put the financial strength of the institution in jeopardy. So, we have SACS mettings in which we sit around and talk about how best to write their reports. I get feedback telling me stuff like this:


In accordance with SACS Standard CS 3.3.1: The institution identifies expected outcomes, assess the extent to which it achieves these outcomes, and provides evidence of improvement based on analysis of the results in educational programs, to include student learning outcomes.


Student Learning Outcomes, Measures, and Criteria for Success


Do the student learning outcomes align with the program’s objective statement? Do they focus on student learning? Are they measureable? Is the number of outcomes sufficient?




Learning Outcome 1: I think the “serious student” in the objective should be changed to Spanish major/graduate to align better. Under Criteria for Success (B) a formal pre, during and after survey/questionnaire would document the student’s learning outcome better than informal communications.




They don't care if students are learning; I have to assess and document that they have improved, and if they haven't, it's not their fault. No, the course must be overhauled if students don't improve, regardless of their amount of effort invested in the course.

The pedagogues have such a tight rein on the field that things like this have happened. Katrina hits. I live with my parents. I have no employment, so I contact the local school board about substitute teaching Spanish. I am ABD with an MA.

Nope, can't do it. You don't have an education certificate or a substitute license. I point out that I teach their teachers how to teach. No matter, you don't have the credentials. I point out that I grant the credentials. Nope, sorry. "You're not qualified to teach Spanish in Cherokee County."

So, my original comment related to the lack of curiosity I was noticing in my students (and the Chronicle has numerous articles showing that my experience isn't merely anecdotal) stemming from their primary and secondary curricula. If you want to call that top-down, fine. But, know that pedagogy is not a Liberal Art, and the pedagogues will be the ruin of higher education. The proliferation of classes that you see as top-down, in my mind, is a reaction against the pedagogues run amok on our children's educations.

[LA Ute]

This woman seems rightly depressed:

Thesis Hatement: (http://www.slate.com/articles/life/culturebox/2013/04/there_are_no_academic_jobs_and_getting_a_ph_d_will _make_you_into_a_horrible.html)Getting a literature Ph.D. will turn you into an emotional trainwreck, not a professor. (http://www.slate.com/articles/life/culturebox/2013/04/there_are_no_academic_jobs_and_getting_a_ph_d_will _make_you_into_a_horrible.html)

I had no idea it was this bad.


I now realize graduate school was a terrible idea because the full-time, tenure-track literature professorship is extinct. After four years of trying, I’ve finally gotten it through my thick head that I will not get a job—and if you go to graduate school, neither will you. You might think your circumstances will be different. So did I. There’s a little fable from Kafka, appropriately called ‘A Little Fable,’ that speaks to why this was very stupid. . . . Someone has to get these jobs. Well, someone also has to not die from small-cell lung cancer to give the disease its 6 percent survival rate, but would you smoke four packs a day with the specific intention of being in that 6 percent? No, because that’s stupid. Well, tenure-track positions in my field have about 150 applicants each. Multiply that 0.6 percent chance of getting any given job by the 10 or so appropriate positions in the entire world, and you have about that same 6 percent chance of ‘success.’ If you wouldn’t bet your life on such ludicrous odds, then why would you bet your livelihood?

[concerned]

Meh, if the spell checker says okay, I move on. By they way - its is the possessive of it. I think you were going for it's, which means "it is." Now we are even.

If we cant get the difference between cannon and canon, what hope can there be for the future of higher education? The next generation will think that Shakespeare was an artillery commander. Well, Faulkner was a pilot so maybe that is ok.

[LA Ute]

If we cant get the difference between cannon and canon, what hope can there be for the future of higher education? The next generation will think that Shakespeare was an artillery commander. Well, Faulkner was a pilot so maybe that is ok.

This is beginning to sound like mere cant to me.

[concerned]

This is beginning to sound like mere cant to me.


cant is never mere.

[tooblue]

It should be telling you the low esteem in which I hold your opinion about these matters; I don't cuss pro forma. You're conflating the two different realms, primary/secondary and higher education. The Pedagogues were allowed to apply philological principles to the study of their field, and we let them do it. Whereas a simple (used loosely) math degree used to suffice, now you have to have a math education degree, and essentially pay tuition to be an apprentice during your senior year. What has their professionalization of the profession accomplished? Lower results in a straight line downward. Then they insinuated themselves into the accrediting bodies. Starting the 1960's, legislators began asking publics to demonstrate that they were indeed 'educating' people, and the die was cast. The pedagogues, in fulfillment of their highest aspirations as Sith Lords of the Acedemy, began with standardized tests, and when that became privatized (and subsequently shown to be worthless), then SACS stepped in in 1985 and began demanding "assessment" and "learning outcomes." This moved up the food chain in the late 80's when the federal government, through no small amount of lobbying by the accrediting bodies, ordered that only accredited institutions could receive federal financial aid. SACS conversion to the Dark Side became complete when HW Bush signed that into law.

Our syllabi are now contracts and have to have all these addenda that no one reads because SACS says so. I cannot teach a course in Portuguese, even though I speak it fluently, and have 14 years of language education experience, because I do not have 18 graduate hours in the language, even though I have a PhD. These SACS reports read like Soviet Five Year Plans. "Students will know the difference between X and Y" instead of "Student should know." We have to write them like that. They are almost worthless (the lone value being that it makes me wonder if I'm doing enough in class). In order to teach my reggae class, I have to write an essay to put into a file about why and how I am qualified to teach a course. A copy of my credentials is attached to each syllabus and put into a file so that the SACS auditors can come every 5 years and audit us (according to their rules). They have no oversight. We cannot resist or put the financial strength of the institution in jeopardy. So, we have SACS mettings in which we sit around and talk about how best to write their reports. I get feedback telling me stuff like this:



They don't care if students are learning; I have to assess and document that they have improved, and if they haven't, it's not their fault. No, the course must be overhauled if students don't improve, regardless of their amount of effort invested in the course.

The pedagogues have such a tight rein on the field that things like this have happened. Katrina hits. I live with my parents. I have no employment, so I contact the local school board about substitute teaching Spanish. I am ABD with an MA.

Nope, can't do it. You don't have an education certificate or a substitute license. I point out that I teach their teachers how to teach. No matter, you don't have the credentials. I point out that I grant the credentials. Nope, sorry. "You're not qualified to teach Spanish in Cherokee County."

So, my original comment related to the lack of curiosity I was noticing in my students (and the Chronicle has numerous articles showing that my experience isn't merely anecdotal) stemming from their primary and secondary curricula. If you want to call that top-down, fine. But, know that pedagogy is not a Liberal Art, and the pedagogues will be the ruin of higher education. The proliferation of classes that you see as top-down, in my mind, is a reaction against the pedagogues run amok on our children's educations.

What's telling is you write as if I am ignorant to your cited plights and you must condescend to better inform me on the situation. So little esteem on your part says more about you than about me and my qualifications to speak authoritatively on this subject. Granted, I don't teach in the same arena or country for that matter but, my experience isn't much different ... the two systems of education are not much different ... just as the dilemma of post secondary vs. secondary and primary isn't much different. I live it daily. I too must write syllabi. I will spend my entire spring personal and professional development period sitting in meetings and writing the same reports you write. I too must justify what I teach and demonstrate that students enrolled in my class are learning something to appease the accreditation and funding beasts. I too will revamp, rewrite or obliterate existing curriculum based upon the tested performance and—unfathomably—the uniformed opinions (whims) of the monetary units sometimes referred to as students, offered up on so-called performance review surveys and reports filled out yearly in the class room.

Perhaps what separates me from you is that I was raised and educated in the American System. I received my initial post secondary education instruction in that same system. I then continued my post secondary education in a foreign country, followed by receipt of a terminal degree in another foreign country to be followed by one more set of initials next to my name in yet another foreign system. This provides me a unique perspective. Dismiss it if you like but that does not render it irrelevant or inconsequential to your so called authority on the subject.

To add one more layer to the discussion, my children have and are being educated in a different primary and secondary system. In terms of social experience it doesn't compare to the American system but, in terms of educational experience, it is superior in many ways.

[Solon]

If we cant get the difference between cannon and canon, what hope can there be for the future of higher education? The next generation will think that Shakespeare was an artillery commander. Well, Faulkner was a pilot so maybe that is ok.

I've always heard that Paul E. Kleitos was a pioneer in the fusilier arts.


Ithen SACS stepped in in 1985 and began demanding "assessment" and "learning outcomes." This moved up the food chain in the late 80's when the federal government, through no small amount of lobbying by the accrediting bodies, ordered that only accredited institutions could receive federal financial aid. SACS conversion to the Dark Side became complete when HW Bush signed that into law.

Our syllabi are now contracts and have to have all these addenda that no one reads because SACS says so. I cannot teach a course in Portuguese, even though I speak it fluently, and have 14 years of language education experience, because I do not have 18 graduate hours in the language, even though I have a PhD. These SACS reports read like Soviet Five Year Plans. "Students will know the difference between X and Y" instead of "Student should know." We have to write them like that.

I agree that the assessment / learning-outcomes is a pain, but I feel like it's more of an effort in corporatization/standardizaton at my institution. Sometimes the classes don't fit very well into the categories, but it's just a game of mutual, reciprocal BS.

BTW, I get to write my Learning Outcomes as "A student who has mastered the material will be able to . . . "

Our assessment coordinator (her real job title) recommended measurable outcomes like "80% of the students will receive at least X grade on Y assignment", but I just told her that would incentivize me to inflate the grades, whether or not they had learned the material. So, my measurable outcomes say something like "100% of the students will . . . ", since - you know - it's a goal and all.

[tooblue]

I've always heard that Paul E. Kleitos was a pioneer in the fusilier arts.



I agree that the assessment / learning-outcomes is a pain, but I feel like it's more of an effort in corporatization/standardizaton at my institution. Sometimes the classes don't fit very well into the categories, but it's just a game of mutual, reciprocal BS.

BTW, I get to write my Learning Outcomes as "A student who has mastered the material will be able to . . . "

Our assessment coordinator (her real job title) recommended measurable outcomes like "80% of the students will receive at least X grade on Y assignment", but I just told her that would incentivize me to inflate the grades, whether or not they had learned the material. So, my measurable outcomes say something like "100% of the students will . . . ", since - you know - it's a goal and all.

We have two sets of learning outcomes. One set is imposed on us by an independent curriculum and assessment body within our school. The outcomes are more general and they focus on the overall educational experience of the student at the institution of higher learning. The second set of outcomes are course specific and they also start with the statement: "A student who has mastered ..."

I am only required to ensure that a student who passes my course can demonstrate he or she is competent in and understands 80% of the delivered content.

[Solon]

We have two sets of learning outcomes. One set is imposed on us by an independent curriculum and assessment body within our school. The outcomes are more general and they focus on the overall educational experience of the student at the institution of higher learning. The second set of outcomes are course specific and they also start with the statement: "A student who has mastered ..."

I am only required to ensure that a student who passes my course can demonstrate he or she is competent and understands 80% of the delivered content.

I think the requirement to formulate learning-outcomes has been a good experience, especially for some of the old-timers at my school.
It's worthwhile to take a moment and really decide what the most important components of the class are, and what they should be.

I don't have a problem with the concept. Some of the "measurability" is a little too much.

[LA Ute]

This is a review of what appears to be a balanced look at an old subject:

Self-Fulfilling Professorial Politics (http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2013/04/09/new-book-explores-professors-politics-and-debates-about-those-politics)


Conspiracy theories abound when it comes to professors and politics. To hear some conservatives tell it, a liberal-dominated professoriate attempts to brainwash students and to keep out of the faculty club any who challenge leftist orthodoxy. Ph.D. programs in the humanities teach some sort of secret handshake that lets those with politically correct views land the best jobs. To hear some liberals talk about it, there is no such thing as a liberal professoriate. Rather, a well-financed group of conservatives and their foundations use the politics issue to trash higher education. If there aren't more conservative professors around, it's because those on the right prefer the world of money to the world of ideas, and flock to Wall Street.

Neil Gross will disappoint most of the conspiracy theorists with his new book, Why Are Professors Liberal and Why Do Conservatives Care?, (http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674059092) which is being released today by Harvard University Press....


Read more: http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2013/04/09/new-book-explores-professors-politics-and-debates-about-those-politics#ixzz2Q0nw5Wx0
Inside Higher Ed

[FMCoug]

It should be telling you the low esteem in which I hold your opinion about these matters; I don't cuss pro forma. You're conflating the two different realms, primary/secondary and higher education. The Pedagogues were allowed to apply philological principles to the study of their field, and we let them do it. Whereas a simple (used loosely) math degree used to suffice, now you have to have a math education degree, and essentially pay tuition to be an apprentice during your senior year. What has their professionalization of the profession accomplished? Lower results in a straight line downward. Then they insinuated themselves into the accrediting bodies. Starting the 1960's, legislators began asking publics to demonstrate that they were indeed 'educating' people, and the die was cast. The pedagogues, in fulfillment of their highest aspirations as Sith Lords of the Acedemy, began with standardized tests, and when that became privatized (and subsequently shown to be worthless), then SACS stepped in in 1985 and began demanding "assessment" and "learning outcomes." This moved up the food chain in the late 80's when the federal government, through no small amount of lobbying by the accrediting bodies, ordered that only accredited institutions could receive federal financial aid. SACS conversion to the Dark Side became complete when HW Bush signed that into law.

Our syllabi are now contracts and have to have all these addenda that no one reads because SACS says so. I cannot teach a course in Portuguese, even though I speak it fluently, and have 14 years of language education experience, because I do not have 18 graduate hours in the language, even though I have a PhD. These SACS reports read like Soviet Five Year Plans. "Students will know the difference between X and Y" instead of "Student should know." We have to write them like that. They are almost worthless (the lone value being that it makes me wonder if I'm doing enough in class). In order to teach my reggae class, I have to write an essay to put into a file about why and how I am qualified to teach a course. A copy of my credentials is attached to each syllabus and put into a file so that the SACS auditors can come every 5 years and audit us (according to their rules). They have no oversight. We cannot resist or put the financial strength of the institution in jeopardy. So, we have SACS mettings in which we sit around and talk about how best to write their reports. I get feedback telling me stuff like this:



They don't care if students are learning; I have to assess and document that they have improved, and if they haven't, it's not their fault. No, the course must be overhauled if students don't improve, regardless of their amount of effort invested in the course.

The pedagogues have such a tight rein on the field that things like this have happened. Katrina hits. I live with my parents. I have no employment, so I contact the local school board about substitute teaching Spanish. I am ABD with an MA.

Nope, can't do it. You don't have an education certificate or a substitute license. I point out that I teach their teachers how to teach. No matter, you don't have the credentials. I point out that I grant the credentials. Nope, sorry. "You're not qualified to teach Spanish in Cherokee County."

So, my original comment related to the lack of curiosity I was noticing in my students (and the Chronicle has numerous articles showing that my experience isn't merely anecdotal) stemming from their primary and secondary curricula. If you want to call that top-down, fine. But, know that pedagogy is not a Liberal Art, and the pedagogues will be the ruin of higher education. The proliferation of classes that you see as top-down, in my mind, is a reaction against the pedagogues run amok on our children's educations.

My wife is dealing with this right now in the secondary ed space. She has a Psychology degree with an emphasis in Child Development but no teaching certificate. A few years ago after the kids were old enough, she decided she'd like to start teaching. She started substituting and eventually got a part-time hourly job teaching two periods of Child Development at a local HS. She is enthusastic, loves the kids, they love her, they consitently get the highest test scores in her derpartment, etc. She can't stand the other teachers and has started avoiding the teacher's lounge becuase of ther bad attitudes towards the kids, etc. They also treat her like shit because she is not a "credentialed teacher" and thus obviously doesn't know how to teach, manage the classroom, etc.

So she decided she really enjoys this (teaching HS no less) and started investigating alternative paths to licensure figuring she'd have to take a few classes, do student teaching, etc. Lo and behold, for her particular bachelor's degree, there isn't one. It's not on the "approved list" of undergrad degrees for the program. She basically has to get a 2nd Bachelor's Degree. A master's degree you say? No, that would have to be in education and her undergrad doesn't qualify her for the program. So here she is, working a maximum of two class periods per semester, at a lowly hourly wage, donating all her own time for prep, etc. and only really doing it because she loves it. But it is sounding like for next year they are going to hire a full-time teacher in her department (which includes things like foods and sewing) to teach a full load across all of those. So she will be out. It's not a finanical issue for us, we cdon't need the money. It's mad money for her and she does it because she likes it.

Next time you hear the bulshit about how there aren't enough good teachers, look right to the UEA and their cronies. That is the source of all of this.

[Solon]

My wife is dealing with this right now in the secondary ed space. She has a Psychology degree with an emphasis in Child Development but no teaching certificate. A few years ago after the kids were old enough, she decided she'd like to start teaching. She started substituting and eventually got a part-time hourly job teaching two periods of Child Development at a local HS. She is enthusastic, loves the kids, they love her, they consitently get the highest test scores in her derpartment, etc. She can't stand the other teachers and has started avoiding the teacher's lounge becuase of ther bad attitudes towards the kids, etc. They also treat her like shit because she is not a "credentialed teacher" and thus obviously doesn't know how to teach, manage the classroom, etc.

So she decided she really enjoys this (teaching HS no less) and started investigating alternative paths to licensure figuring she'd have to take a few classes, do student teaching, etc. Lo and behold, for her particular bachelor's degree, there isn't one. It's not on the "approved list" of undergrad degrees for the program. She basically has to get a 2nd Bachelor's Degree. A master's degree you say? No, that would have to be in education and her undergrad doesn't qualify her for the program. So here she is, working a maximum of two class periods per semester, at a lowly hourly wage, donating all her own time for prep, etc. and only really doing it because she loves it. But it is sounding like for next year they are going to hire a full-time teacher in her department (which includes things like foods and sewing) to teach a full load across all of those. So she will be out. It's not a finanical issue for us, we cdon't need the money. It's mad money for her and she does it because she likes it.

Next time you hear the bulshit about how there aren't enough good teachers, look right to the UEA and their cronies. That is the source of all of this.

I have a similar story. Boiled down, I was teaching HS as a full-time sub for awhile (with an MA), but to get a credential I would have had to take a bunch of classes and do student-teaching in order to qualify for the job I already held.

No thanks. I went back to grad school. It's too bad, though - sometimes I really miss coaching HS football.

[wuapinmon]

It's the pedagogues. The very ones teaching our teachers are the root cause of the problems. They are the Sith Lords of Education.

[LA Ute]

It's the pedagogues. The very ones teaching our teachers are the root cause of the problems. They are the Sith Lords of Education.

I used to say "pedagogía" as a way to practice my soft "d" and to remember to pronounce the "a" correctly ("ah") without Gringo-izing it as "uh."

[CardiacCoug]

This is a thread about higher ed, including professional schools like medicine, dentristry, law, and business. I think we can have some interesting discussions here about all of that. We even have a professor or two among our ranks.

I'll start with this:

The Golf Shot Heard Round the Academic World (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324100904578404502145771288.html?m od=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop)



I'm one of those conservatives who supports and thinks he understands higher education. One aspect of attending the U. of U. that I loved and am grateful for is the exposure it gave me to different ideas, different worldviews, and the like. I feel I had a truly liberal education, in the classical sense. I want that for all my kids. But based on the above I wouldn't want to fork out the money necessary for a Bowdoin education.

The importance that some families and kids put on getting into Ivy League or similar caliber schools is totally ridiculous.

A daughter of one of my colleagues just learned that she didn't get into Dartmouth and was completely crushed by it, totally out of proportion to any significance of this event. One of the main reasons students and parents continue to shell out ridiculous amounts of money is because it's not the education they are buying -- they (both student and parents) are buying status, validation, and self-worth. It's an interesting phenomenon but a lot of people relate to college (and obviously high school) choice a lot like they relate to what car they drive. They only enjoy the college/car for what they perceive it says about them and not for its own merits.

[LA Ute]

The importance that some families and kids put on getting into Ivy League or similar caliber schools is totally ridiculous.

A daughter of one of my colleagues just learned that she didn't get into Dartmouth and was completely crushed by it, totally out of proportion to any significance of this event. One of the main reasons students and parents continue to shell out ridiculous amounts of money is because it's not the education they are buying -- they (both student and parents) are buying status, validation, and self-worth. It's an interesting phenomenon but a lot of people relate to college (and obviously high school) choice a lot like they relate to what car they drive. They only enjoy the college/car for what they perceive it says about them and not for its own merits.

This Ross Douthat piece in the NYT (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/07/opinion/sunday/douthat-the-secrets-of-princeton.html?_r=0) is about how the Ivies are more about connections than education. It's a foreign world to me so I don't know if he is right. I have plenty of colleagues who went to Harvard Law School (and similar schools) and they don't seem any better-connected than the rest of us, but I think Douthat (a prep school and Harvard grad) is talking about the undergraduate experience.

[FMCoug]

I have a similar story. Boiled down, I was teaching HS as a full-time sub for awhile (with an MA), but to get a credential I would have had to take a bunch of classes and do student-teaching in order to qualify for the job I already held.

No thanks. I went back to grad school. It's too bad, though - sometimes I really miss coaching HS football.

What sucks is that it is the students who suffer.

[Scratch]

The importance that some families and kids put on getting into Ivy League or similar caliber schools is totally ridiculous.

A daughter of one of my colleagues just learned that she didn't get into Dartmouth and was completely crushed by it, totally out of proportion to any significance of this event. One of the main reasons students and parents continue to shell out ridiculous amounts of money is because it's not the education they are buying -- they (both student and parents) are buying status, validation, and self-worth. It's an interesting phenomenon but a lot of people relate to college (and obviously high school) choice a lot like they relate to what car they drive. They only enjoy the college/car for what they perceive it says about them and not for its own merits.

I agree that it is silly to make college attendance a status symbol, but as this thread has shown, there are plenty of instances where attending an Ivy (or, more importantly, an elite institution in the given field) is vitally important. For example, if you're getting a Ph.D. and want to teach college, you better be going to one of the absolute elite Ph.D. programs in the country. I'm a lawyer, and law is very similar, especially now. Now, I don't think where you go to law school has a lot to do with how good of a lawyer you will become (assuming you have the abilities in the first place), but if you look at the hiring patterns right now, it's pretty hard to get a good job out of law school unless you went to a top school. The difference between going to law school at a top 10 or 15 school and a very good but not great law school like Utah or BYU is so monumentally different in the opportunities available at graduation that failing to get into such a program in the current legal market could be a justifiable cause for concern. I don't know exactly how it shakes out for other professions, but this is undeniable in law right now.

Again, I'm not saying that there is some sort of automatic significant difference in a graduate of these institutions, or the actual education a student will receive, but it's impossible to deny the actual numbers that are seen for recent law grads.

[concerned]

I agree that it is silly to make college attendance a status symbol, but as this thread has shown, there are plenty of instances where attending an Ivy (or, more importantly, an elite institution in the given field) is vitally important. For example, if you're getting a Ph.D. and want to teach college, you better be going to one of the absolute elite Ph.D. programs in the country. I'm a lawyer, and law is very similar, especially now. Now, I don't think where you go to law school has a lot to do with how good of a lawyer you will become (assuming you have the abilities in the first place), but if you look at the hiring patterns right now, it's pretty hard to get a good job out of law school unless you went to a top school. The difference between going to law school at a top 10 or 15 school and a very good but not great law school like Utah or BYU is so monumentally different in the opportunities available at graduation that failing to get into such a program in the current legal market could be a justifiable cause for concern. I don't know exactly how it shakes out for other professions, but this is undeniable in law right now.

Again, I'm not saying that there is some sort of automatic significant difference in a graduate of these institutions, or the actual education a student will receive, but it's impossible to deny the actual numbers that are seen for recent law grads.

It has always, always been hard to get tenure track teaching positions at every level. When I was in college, I was an English lit major and thought long and hard about going to English lit grad school. My sophmore year, I took a Shakespeare class, where the TA was about to get his PHD. He was possibly the most insightful grad student I ever had as a ta, and he had a great pedigree (Princeton undergrad, yale PHD). He posted all of his rejections on his office wall. There were dozens of them; they covered the entire office. I dont remember where he finally got an offer and where he ended up. but it convinced me to go to law school (after a frolic and detour in journalism).

[Scratch]

That is absolutely correct about PhD programs and law schools. I have also seen it with MBAs. I am less certain about med schools, since my doctor friends who went to fancy med schools and my doctor friends who studied in the caribbean all ended up with similar jobs.

But grad school is not really the issue here. The question is - does it matter where you go as an undergrad? There's no simple answer, and it depends on your goals.

If it's just undergrad, I agree that it's not terribly important for most areas. There may be some exceptions, but my take on careers that require post-grad studies is that you just need to get into an undergrad that is good enough that it will not foreclose grad school opportunities. In other words, an undergrad that is good enough to get you into any grad program if you do great in undergrad and do all of the other things necessary for a strong application. When I was deciding where to go to undergrad, an attorney who was a Rhodes scholar who did his undergrad at Oxford and Stanford gave me this exact advice and told me in the long run it wouldn't make a difference.

[concerned]

If it's just undergrad, I agree that it's not terribly important for most areas. There may be some exceptions, but my take on careers that require post-grad studies is that you just need to get into an undergrad that is good enough that it will not foreclose grad school opportunities. In other words, an undergrad that is good enough to get you into any grad program if you do great in undergrad and do all of the other things necessary for a strong application. When I was deciding where to go to undergrad, an attorney who was a Rhodes scholar who did his undergrad at Oxford and Stanford gave me this exact advice and told me in the long run it wouldn't make a difference.

You took advice from Pat Shea? I cant believe Scott Matheson would have given you that advice. (just kidding)

[OceanBlue]

I've been lurking this thread and find it interesting as I have a H.S. junior who is planning on going to college. Are you guys stating that what undergrad school you go to does not make a difference ? In job market or for grad school ?

My son is all over the place on what he wants to do for a living. One week it is law enforcement the next he is into economics. He has taken three languages in HS and his reading scores for the ACT and SAT are in the top 99%. Math is average. I wish he had one school he really wants but he doesn't. I am very stressed on where he will go to school.
Any advice would be appreciated.

[OceanBlue]

Sancho, Thanks for the response. His GPA isn't that good around 3.9 this semester weighted, higher earlier this year. 4.0 is safe to say. 28 ACT 1880 SAT. My wife really wanted him to go to Provo but I doubt it with his GPA. Eagle Scout, Natl Honor Society, football. Not good enough for UNC our state school but probaby good enough for NC State. We would like him to go to school at a place where he can meet other LDS kids. He is the only male LDS in his HS and he gets along well but doesn't have really tight friends. Thats why we are thinking of out west. We really wish he had a strong opinion on where wants to go but he is pretty open minded. Any thoughts ?

[wuapinmon]

I've been lurking this thread and find it interesting as I have a H.S. junior who is planning on going to college. Are you guys stating that what undergrad school you go to does not make a difference ? In job market or for grad school ?

My son is all over the place on what he wants to do for a living. One week it is law enforcement the next he is into economics. He has taken three languages in HS and his reading scores for the ACT and SAT are in the top 99%. Math is average. I wish he had one school he really wants but he doesn't. I am very stressed on where he will go to school.
Any advice would be appreciated.

He should go where they want HIM. With that score, he could get all kinds of money from a mid-level private college. Has he looked at Elon or Furman?

[OceanBlue]

He should go where they want HIM. With that score, he could get all kinds of money from a mid-level private college. Has he looked at Elon or Furman?

That is good advice. I have thought of Furman and looked into it. The local bishop went to Utah State for undergrad and UNC for grad and is a professor of economics at Furman. Young really nice guy who grew up in Oklahoma. He said the eight or so LDS that go are not that active and none will serve a mission. This is the stuff that makes it hard for me. I'd like him to have some sort of a social life yet the school be good. We have even thought of sending him to non BYU Utah schools. He went to efy one summer at Utah State and got along fine with those kids. But is it worth it to pay out of state for a Utah school when he could go to a Furman type school ?

[Solon]

That is good advice. I have thought of Furman and looked into it. The local bishop went to Utah State for undergrad and UNC for grad and is a professor of economics at Furman. Young really nice guy who grew up in Oklahoma. He said the eight or so LDS that go are not that active and none will serve a mission. This is the stuff that makes it hard for me. I'd like him to have some sort of a social life yet the school be good. We have even thought of sending him to non BYU Utah schools. He went to efy one summer at Utah State and got along fine with those kids. But is it worth it to pay out of state for a Utah school when he could go to a Furman type school ?

If he has a really good scholarship, it probably doesn't matter if it's for out-of-state tuition or not. This is a good time to look into Utah schools since enrollments are in flux with the new missionary ages.

For Utah schools with sizable LDS populations, there's the Flagship Institution for which this fair board is named.
I have good things to say about the academics at Utah State & Southern Utah. I have bad things to say about Dixie. UVU can go either way.

I go back and forth on the "it doesn't matter where you do your undergrad" debate.
On the one hand, it's true - standardized test scores go a long ways towards getting into grad programs regardless of undergraduate institution.
On the other hand, bigger/richer schools have more resources and more opportunities, whether it's study-abroad programs, a specialized major or program, elaborate alumni networks, and the social benefits of associating closely for four years with elite, smart people.

It does matter, I guess - but it probably doesn't matter to the tune of $150K.

[LA Ute]

That is good advice. I have thought of Furman and looked into it. The local bishop went to Utah State for undergrad and UNC for grad and is a professor of economics at Furman. Young really nice guy who grew up in Oklahoma. He said the eight or so LDS that go are not that active and none will serve a mission. This is the stuff that makes it hard for me. I'd like him to have some sort of a social life yet the school be good. We have even thought of sending him to non BYU Utah schools. He went to efy one summer at Utah State and got along fine with those kids. But is it worth it to pay out of state for a Utah school when he could go to a Furman type school ?

Our oldest went to the U. of U. I think an out-of-state LDS student at the U. can have a good experience if he/she is the outgoing type who will live in the dorms and make friends in a student ward, which are huge at the U., or will otherwise make connections. There certainly is a large pool of LDS marriage candidates and a tonj of Institute opportunities for involvement. The Institute is a huge complex with a lot going on. That said, a student who is not the outgoing type might easily get lost there. With your son's grades I think lots of scholarship help would be available.

[OceanBlue]

My son is not outgoing. Reserved and quiet unless he knows you well. Offensive lineman who never says a word unless asked. Thats one reason why I think he may do well where there are more LDS kids. At efy Utah State he made friends with kids who were from ranches and rural areas it seems. The other question is do you send a kid to a agriculture school who is more geared towards languages and such ?

[Solon]

My son is not outgoing. Reserved and quiet unless he knows you well. Offensive lineman who never says a word unless asked. Thats one reason why I think he may do well where there are more LDS kids. At efy Utah State he made friends with kids who were from ranches and rural areas it seems. The other question is do you send a kid to a agriculture school who is more geared towards languages and such ?

Maybe Southern Utah University.
It's got plenty of rural kids and ranchers too, but it is Utah's designated Liberal Arts & Sciences college.
It's not for everyone, nor does it have every major, but I've been impressed with the direction they're going.

[wuapinmon]

That is good advice. I have thought of Furman and looked into it. The local bishop went to Utah State for undergrad and UNC for grad and is a professor of economics at Furman. Young really nice guy who grew up in Oklahoma. He said the eight or so LDS that go are not that active and none will serve a mission. This is the stuff that makes it hard for me. I'd like him to have some sort of a social life yet the school be good. We have even thought of sending him to non BYU Utah schools. He went to efy one summer at Utah State and got along fine with those kids. But is it worth it to pay out of state for a Utah school when he could go to a Furman type school ?

My wife went to Utah State, and she LOVED it. One cool thing they do now is graduates of USU's kids can always go there for in-state tuition no matter where they live. Ours might make that trek. All of the Mormonness, none of the Honor Code.

[LA Ute]

My wife went to Utah State, and she LOVED it. One cool thing they do now is graduates of USU's kids can always go there for in-state tuition no matter where they live. Ours might make that trek. All of the Mormonness, none of the Honor Code.

I've heard good things about USU as an undergraduate experience.

[OceanBlue]

Guys, thank you for answering my questions. Sorry to have hijacked the thread but you guys have knowledge that I don't have. I never went to a four year school. Somehow I've done ok and work in sales for a Fortune 100 company. I think we will apply to UNC as a reach, NC State, Texas A&M (the only school he has expressed interest in )Utah, Utah State and hope this last semester of his junior year his GPA improves. Most of my college educated ward friends are Y-Provo or Y- Idaho and I've heard mixed things on BYU-Idaho.

We are also hoping his SAT goes up in May as he is taking a prep class. His AP honors English teacher who has taught for 30 years says he frustrates her as she feels he has Ivy league smarts if he is interested in subject. Loved Russian one and two and got 100's. But if he has no interest like Chemistry this past semester he pulled a C. I wish schools would look and accept on strengths if his major match's that strength. Thank you guys for sharing with me

[Diehard Ute]

I've heard good things about USU as an undergraduate experience.

Having gone there I would say it depends.

I enjoyed some things but really disliked Logan. I'm a city kid, and when I went (late 90's) there wasn't much to do up there. It's grown since I left however.

The one thing about USU is it tends to have a student body from the surrounding area. I found that campus would be empty with little going on during weekends as many students went home. That may also have changed.

The one thing you have to be prepared for if going to USU is the weather. It can be a shock.

The education I received was good, and I met some good friends. Of course I also believe it would be a different experience for someone who is LDS, especially in a more rural utah town. (Probably for the better, more support systems and built in avenue for activities)

[FMCoug]

My wife went to Utah State, and she LOVED it. One cool thing they do now is graduates of USU's kids can always go there for in-state tuition no matter where they live. Ours might make that trek. All of the Mormonness, none of the Honor Code.

My daughter is going there in the fall and is excited about it. My wife and I both went there as well. So the in-state tuition thing will be good if we ever escape Utah.

[LA Ute]

Hang out around here long enough and hopefully you will have heard mixed things on BYU-Provo too!

People get lost there too.

[Diehard Ute]

People get lost there too.

I've talked to many out of state LDS folks who couldn't handle it down there. I think even the most ardent LDS would admit being LDS in Provo is different than elsewhere, and that can be a big negative for many.

[OceanBlue]

Diehard, are you LEO ? If so what degree is considered most valuable ?

[Diehard Ute]

Diehard, are you LEO ? If so what degree is considered most valuable ?

I am. Honestly most departments really don't seem to care what your degree is in, more that you have one (although it's still not required)

A criminal justice degree is probably most applicable. Mine is in ornamental horticulture, hasn't held me back haha

My line of work is about common sense and the ability to control emotions, spelling is just a big bonus ;)

[OceanBlue]

My sons always had an interest in LE. Not sure if it will hold through college as some weeks he expresses interest in other areas. My brother in law was LE and did 20 years and retired at 44.

[LA Ute]

My sons always had an interest in LE. Not sure if it will hold through college as some weeks he expresses interest in other areas. My brother in law was LE and did 20 years and retired at 44.

That has been my U. grad (next month) son's ambition since childhood. Now he will have a degree in Sociology and a criminal justice certificate and we will see how he does getting on somewhere.

[wuapinmon]

As a convert, I loved the culture of Utah County at first. After a few years I was ready to move on. I've got soul, but I'm not a souldier.

[FMCoug]

I've talked to many out of state LDS folks who couldn't handle it down there. I think even the most ardent LDS would admit being LDS in Provo is different than elsewhere, and that can be a big negative for many.

The Utah County bubble as opposed to the Utah bubble is a distinction that always makes me chuckle. For those of us who have spent the majority of our lives outside of Utah, all of Utah and Southeastern Idaho constitute the bubble. I'm an LDS from out of state that struggles a lot in Utah for many cultural reasons. But they are certainly not limited ot Utah County. I have lived in Logan (albeit during school which is a bit different), Salt Lake (East Millcreek to be precise), Lehi, Kaysville, and Cedar Hills. I don't fine the Utah County bubble much different than anywhere else. In fact, Salt Lake was a worse experience because there is a real "us vs. them" mentality from some people on both sides.

When you spend your life where NONE of your neighbors are LDS, the distinction between nearly all of them (Utah County) and just half of them (Salt Lake) doesn't really mean anything. It's still Mormonia. :)

The weirdest people / ward we have EVER been in was in Salt Lake.

[Diehard Ute]

Well at least in Salt Lake businesses are allowed to decide for themselves if being open on Sunday is ok...it's not left to voters ;)

[FMCoug]

Well at least in Salt Lake businesses are allowed to decide for themselves if being open on Sunday is ok...it's not left to voters ;)

Hey if you're trying to get me to defend the crazies you'll be disappointed. I'm just saying it from a California/ Texas Mormon's perspective, all of Utah is pretty weird.

[Diehard Ute]

I'm not trying for anything. Just pointing out where the real oddballs are.

As someone who isn't LDS the northern half of Salt Lake county is pretty nice. The further south or north you go it gets weirder. :)

[Solon]

I'm not trying for anything. Just pointing out where the real oddballs are.

As someone who isn't LDS the northern half of Salt Lake county is pretty nice. The further south or north you go it gets weirder. :)

To bring this conversation almost back on track, I went to a lecture last week from a man who is studying the dynamics between town & gown in the cities with Utah (public) universities. His comments: while the LDS culture certainly flavors Utah higher ed., most of the foibles are traceable to small-town vs. larger city. In other words, the weirdness of Ephraim or the quirks of Cedar City, and their sometimes ambivalent relationships with higher education, are more-or-less consistent with other (non-LDS) small towns throughout the country.

The Utah version of the small town just happens to be Mormon-oriented. Other places in America have different cultural-religious factors at work, but are just as eccentric.

[OceanBlue]

Would this be smart ? Kid wants to be LEO, if it really doesn't matter what degree you get, why not get degree in something like economics in case LEO doesn't work out ?

[LA Ute]

Would this be smart ? Kid wants to be LEO, if it really doesn't matter what degree you get, why not get degree in something like economics in case LEO doesn't work out ?

He should study English and become the next Joseph Waumbaugh.

EDIT: That seems too flip. I should add that I know many LEOs who have done other very interesting things after their retirements, so if he gets a degree in something he enjoys he'll be set to move on to something he enjoys when he hangs up his badge.

[wuapinmon]

Would this be smart ? Kid wants to be LEO, if it really doesn't matter what degree you get, why not get degree in something like economics in case LEO doesn't work out ?

Leo Major

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_Major

[LA Ute]

From Glenn Reynolds (http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/167635/), who writes about the subject often:


HIGHER EDUCATION BUBBLE UPDATE: Parents should beware of borrowing too much to pay for children’s college education. (http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/business/news/parents-should-beware-of-borrowing-too-much-to-pay-for-their-childrens-college-education-684630/) “Borrowing programs designed to help parents raise money for their children’s education — such as PLUS loans — could potentially hurt the families they are intended to help. The loans are remarkably easy to get, yet nearly impossible to get out from under when families bite off more debt than they can chew.”

[concerned]

another perspective on going to grad school


http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/books/2013/04/graduate-school-advice-impossible-decision.html

[LA Ute]

another perspective on going to grad school


http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/books/2013/04/graduate-school-advice-impossible-decision.html

Favorite line:

"Maybe I’ve been in school too long; doctoral study has a way of turning your head into a never-ending seminar, and I’m now capable of having complicated, inconclusive thoughts about nearly any subject."

[Harry Tic]

Favorite line:

"Maybe I’ve been in school too long; doctoral study has a way of turning your head into a never-ending seminar, and I’m now capable of having complicated, inconclusive thoughts about nearly any subject."

This is a fantastic line, with more than a germ of truth in it.

[LA Ute]

"College Administrators’ Priorities Not Always The Students"

http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/wrm/2013/05/04/college-presidents-priorities-not-always-students/

Really? ;)

[Solon]

"College Administrators’ Priorities Not Always The Students"

http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/wrm/2013/05/04/college-presidents-priorities-not-always-students/

Really? ;)

This is a ridiculous article and I regret wasting the time I spent reading it.

1. The gist of it hinges on the difference between "somewhat important" and "very important". Hardly any (<5%) are saying things like graduation rates & employment are not important at all.

2. The criticism that Administrators aren't sold on MOOCs (massive open online courses) is weak criticism. Online education is very uneven at best. At worst, it's a complete waste of tuition.

3. The Gallup survey sample "is not nationally representative of U.S. colleges and universities" and includes 4-year schools, 2-year schools, for-profit schools, and community colleges, complicating any idea of a consensus (the problems and mission of a for-profit school are different to some extent from those of a 4-year private liberal arts school)

4. Of course the article decided that this was far too encouraging: 67& somewhat or strongly agree that "The faculty at my institution continues to adopt better pedagogical strategies in their teaching."

http://www.gallup.com/strategicconsulting/162170/gallup-college-university-president-panel-inaugural-report.aspx

[LA Ute]

I agree. That article is garbage.

I thought it was bad enough to be kind of funny. MOOCs are very popular among the libertarian set, but I don't think MOOCs' time has come yet.

[Applejack]

Higher ed has a host of problems: outrageous tuition, outdated classes, tenure abuses, etc., etc. But higher education is not a bubble, at least not yet. The decision to go to college is still quite rational. From the NYtimes:

527

[LA Ute]

I guess this fits here.

What Do U.S. College Graduates Lack? Professionalism (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-08/what-do-u-s-college-graduates-lack-professionalism.html)


I gave an exam last week, and one student showed up 25 minutes late. When the hour ended and I collected (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-01-08/don-t-call-them-students-they-re-entrepreneurs-.html) the papers, he looked up from his seat, cast a pitiable glance and mumbled, “Please, I got here late -- may I have another 20 minutes?”

I shook my head and said, “Can’t do that.” His request echoed in my head all the way back to my office. Where in the world did he get the idea that an exam doesn’t begin and end at a set time?

Employers call it an “employability skill” -- work ethic, timeliness, attendance and so on -- and they deal with it every day. Whenever the National Association of Manufacturers (http://topics.bloomberg.com/national-association-of-manufacturers/) administers its “Skills Gap” surveys to members, failings in this area are as likely to be cited as complaints about inadequate technical and verbal skills.

In 2001 and 2005, the association’s members rated (http://www.deloitte.com/assets/Dcom-UnitedStates/Local%20Assets/Documents/us_mfg_talent_management_042007%20%28exp%20041510% 29%281%29.pdf) employability skills as a crushing deficiency in their workforce, and more respondents urged schools to instill better behavior than did those who demanded more training in reading and math....

[Applejack]

I guess this fits here.

What Do U.S. College Graduates Lack? Professionalism (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-08/what-do-u-s-college-graduates-lack-professionalism.html)

This is certainly true. I think it's a byproduct of (1) helicopter parents and (2) grade inflation. There are fewer consequences in school for being a screw-up, so kids don't learn how to be professional. Additionally, businesses don't want to train people anymore - they want employees who hit the ground running. In years past there was an expectation that a company would invest in its employees, knowing that the company would reap the rewards of the employee's skills once up to speed. Nowadays, there is so much turnover that companies don't want to invest in human capital, only to see those humans take a better job elsewhere.

[Jarid in Cedar]

This is certainly true. I think it's a byproduct of (1) helicopter parents and (2) grade inflation. There are fewer consequences in school for being a screw-up, so kids don't learn how to be professional. Additionally, businesses don't want to train people anymore - they want employees who hit the ground running. In years past there was an expectation that a company would invest in its employees, knowing that the company would reap the rewards of the employee's skills once up to speed. Nowadays, there is so much turnover that companies don't want to invest in human capital, only to see those humans take a better job elsewhere.

I would add ego centrism to your list. The feeling that the world should bend to fit my every need, schedule, or whim.


Case in point, we had an employee give 2 weeks notice because she took another job. We hired and started to train her replacement immediately, and the new hire is up to speed. Now the leaving employee has been told that the training for her new job has been pushed back 3 weeks. She is now mad at us because we won't just let her keep working until then. :blink:

[Applejack]

I would add ego centrism to your list. The feeling that the world should bend to fit my every need, schedule, or whim.


Case in point, we had an employee give 2 weeks notice because she took another job. We hired and started to train her replacement immediately, and the new hire is up to speed. Now the leaving employee has been told that the training for her new job has been pushed back 3 weeks. She is now mad at us because we won't just let her keep working until then. :blink:

I think this is a symptom of helicopter parents. Most college kids these days have never had a real job.

[Diehard Ute]

It's a symptom of society.

Kids aren't held to a standard, aren't punished, they're just told showing up is enough.

In sports, school etc there are participation medals instead of medals for winning.

Society has decided everything should be warm and fuzzy, forgetting the real world is rarely either.

Society needs to change. The softer side of sears approach isn't working.

[wuapinmon]

I guess this fits here.

What Do U.S. College Graduates Lack? Professionalism (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-08/what-do-u-s-college-graduates-lack-professionalism.html)

I told my students that their exam starts at 8:30AM tomorrow morning. If they're not there by 8:45, they may not present the exam. I used to have this problem, but I no longer give makeup exams unless they produce Sloan Peterson's grandma's cadaver or show me the stump from a severed limb. I make intercollegiate athletes take their exams BEFORE their road trips. If you miss a quiz, lump it. If you forgot to do your homework? Absent. I see you texting in class? Absent. Forgot your textbook? Absent. (keep in mind that the bulk of what I teach are skills courses, so the book is essential). Your phone rings in class? I get to answer it.

Before I did all of these things, a good 1/10 of any class could be spent fielding exception questions and/or interrupted by phone calls.

[wuapinmon]

It's a symptom of society.

Kids aren't held to a standard, aren't punished, they're just told showing up is enough.

In sports, school etc there are participation medals instead of medals for winning.

Society has decided everything should be warm and fuzzy, forgetting the real world is rarely either.

Society needs to change. The softer side of sears approach isn't working.

I disagree. There's plenty of competition out there still. They typically don't give participation trophies after puberty, and even before then, there are always stars, MVPs, and the kid that you want on your team--kids still understand this. Also, for boys, the video game networks are complete hierarchies of competence with rankings on every little thing that someone can do well. Some are good at 1st-person shooters, others at strategy games, others at sports, still others at racing ones.

Schools are still meritocracies in high school, but in elementary schoo, the resources dedicated to mentally-retarded children and their presence in regular classes, while stellar for them and their progress, does create imbalances that didn't use to exist, and does impact expectations for acceptable classroom behavior in some settings. I can remember how unfair it felt in elementary school when the special-ed kids would come back to class for writing practice right before lunch, and their bad behavior would make us all, daily, suffer through silent lunch. Now, those same class of kids are in my daughter's classes all day long, and the teacher spends an inordinate amount of time working with them, disciplining them, and giving them the extra help that they need since no child can be left behind, no matter the consequences to those out in front. The effect I have seen on the kids who don't suffer from mental disabilities is one of learning doldrums. They are rarely challenged, so unless they are self-starters (which I don't think is always innate, but can be a combination of nature/nurture), then there are few who will rise above the level of expectation set for them (which is abysmally low thanks to accrediting bodies like SACS [the Sith Lords of Academia] working in cahoots with politicians and the education industry). My daughter, a bright 5th-grader, told me last week that she's not allowed to bring her textbook home or read ahead in the chapters because, "We might read something that isn't a Standard." It's not society that has changed as much as we've been altered, slowly, by the insidious hand of the accrediting bodies and their Ed.D.-sporting pedagogues (who almost universally insist on being called "Dr.") who seek to tell us what 'best practices' are even as the ship is sinking.

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view/83047/volcano-eruption-o.gif

[wuapinmon]

I would add ego centrism to your list. The feeling that the world should bend to fit my every need, schedule, or whim.


Case in point, we had an employee give 2 weeks notice because she took another job. We hired and started to train her replacement immediately, and the new hire is up to speed. Now the leaving employee has been told that the training for her new job has been pushed back 3 weeks. She is now mad at us because we won't just let her keep working until then. :blink:

I agree. I regularly have students come to me at the end of the semester when I haven't seen them since week 8 and who become upset with me because I won't give them an F in a class instead of a UW. They will gripe and complain about me hurting their scholarship, but when I explain that they earned the grade and that it's fraud to do otherwise unless they finish the course, they call me unkind things (some of which are nonetheless accurate).


This is certainly true. I think it's a byproduct of (1) helicopter parents and (2) grade inflation. There are fewer consequences in school for being a screw-up, so kids don't learn how to be professional. Additionally, businesses don't want to train people anymore - they want employees who hit the ground running. In years past there was an expectation that a company would invest in its employees, knowing that the company would reap the rewards of the employee's skills once up to speed. Nowadays, there is so much turnover that companies don't want to invest in human capital, only to see those humans take a better job elsewhere.

The breakdown of discipline in the schools is a complex thing. I noticed that things changed greatly once corporal punishment was off the table during my sophomore year, but that's another topic entirely. I've seen my own employer not want to hire certain classes of applicants because "they'll just go somewhere else in two years" which really does happen.


I think this is a symptom of helicopter parents. Most college kids these days have never had a real job.

Most of my students have never ever worked. EVER. When I was a kid in suburban Atlanta in the late 80's/early 90's, we all had jobs unless we were playing a sport. The crew at the McDonald's where I worked was 65% classmates, 30% trailer-park dwellers, and 5% retirees wanting to make extra scratch.

[Solon]

I guess this fits here.

What Do U.S. College Graduates Lack? Professionalism (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-08/what-do-u-s-college-graduates-lack-professionalism.html)

I have a section on "Professionalism and Respect" in my syllabi that addresses things like informality, tardiness, texting during class, and other distracting/unprofessional behaviors. It specifically says that my insistence that these be avoided is training for the professional world.

I've had three or four other teachers adopt the paragraph for their own syllabi. Like everything else on the syllabus, it doesn't really sink it, but at least I have recourse when I ask a student to modify his/her behavior.

[wuapinmon]

I have a section on "Professionalism and Respect" in my syllabi that addresses things like informality, tardiness, texting during class, and other distracting/unprofessional behaviors. It specifically says that my insistence that these be avoided is training for the professional world.

I've had three or four other teachers adopt the paragraph for their own syllabi. Like everything else on the syllabus, it doesn't really sink it, but at least I have recourse when I ask a student to modify his/her behavior.

Can you post that section? You shared it once before, and I meant to use it, but it slipped my mind.

[LA Ute]

I think most of this discussion is just "get off my lawn" griping about kids today.

Yeah, and I try to avoid that. I do think the millennials are an interesting phenomenon.

[wuapinmon]

I think most of this discussion is just "get off my lawn" griping about kids today.

I believe that I have a different perspective than your average curmudgeon. My job is dealing with them daily, so, like anyone, I value my anecdotal experience across 15 years of teaching higher than perhaps I should. But, I also recognize a fundamental change in this generation. I knew narcissist as a kid. They were an annoying minority. No longer.

[LA Ute]

No, you are right - there is a fundamental change. There's one every generation, which is why every generation's old people ask what's wrong with the kids today.

True that. Every generational shift is interesting. I think that members of the older generation (that means us) have to understand and be realistic about the rising one. In law firms like mine we are interested in succession plans and are always trying to bring younger lawyers into the fold. It is clear to us that today's young lawyers are looking for something much different than we were. Trying to change them is pointless. We have to figure out how to work with their worldview.

For example, the data are showing that Millennials are generally not interested in what we consider "paying dues," or starting at the bottom, doing the grunt work and moving up. (My own anecdotal experience supprts this.) There are exceptions. It's just part of the landscape and we're making an mistake if we don't recognize it. In my humble opinion, of course.

[LA Ute]

Funny, no sooner had I posted than I read this from Elder Packer while preparing a Sunday School lesson: "This trend to more noise, more excitement, more contention, less restraint, less dignity, less formality is not coincidental nor innocent nor harmless."

I think my generation's coarser than my Father's was. My kids' generation is coarser than mine. (Is coarser a word?) I think this is undeniable. I don't think it's a good trend.

[Diehard Ute]

.

For example, the data are showing that Millennials are generally not interested in what we consider "paying dues," or starting at the bottom, doing the grunt work and moving up. (My own anecdotal experience supprts this.) There are exceptions. It's just part of the landscape and we're making an mistake if we don't recognize it. In my humble opinion, of course.

In my line of work that can get someone else hurt or killed.

We don't have the ability to "change" in terms of working your way up and learning from those before you.

How we deal with that is still a work in progress.

[LA Ute]

In my line of work that can get someone else hurt or killed.

We don't have the ability to "change" in terms of working your way up and learning from those before you.

How we deal with that is still a work in progress.

Yep. I think the millennials who are willing to pay dues and work hard will rise. Not sure what will happen to the others or how that will impact everyone else. It seems to me am iron rule of life that if you want to be really good at anything complex or challenging you have to be willing to start at the bottom and learn the basics.

[Diehard Ute]

Yep. I think the millennials who are willing to pay dues and work hard will rise. Not sure what will happen to the others or how that will impact everyone else. It seems to me am iron rule of life that if you want to be really good at anything complex or challenging you have to be willing to start at the bottom and learn the basics.

Yup you do.

And that often correlates to pay. Which also tends to keep that generation from being interested. I think much of this is the instant nature they've been raised with. They want what they want now. The idea of waiting is somewhat foreign. Email, cell phones and text messages etc have changed what the younger generation expects and sees as 'normal'

[wuapinmon]

One thing I do to fight this in my children is to give them chores, even pointless ones like picking up pine cones in the yard (we have about 40 pine trees, so it can be a wheelbarrow load after a storm). As punishment for doing bad stuff, I make them move a stack of 50 bricks from one side of the yard to the other (and then back again, a la Cool Hand Luke---"What are your bricks doing in my yard?"). I will also make them get jobs when they're teenagers unless they are otherwise engaged in something character building.

But, my kids already say "sir" and "ma'am" after "yes" and "no" so we're off to a good start with them. I think one of the reasons why I liked the movie Mud so much was that I felt like the dialogue and interactions were absolutely spot on for the culture it sought to recreate.

[Solon]

No, you are right - there is a fundamental change. There's one every generation, which is why every generation's old people ask what's wrong with the kids today.
I agree with this.
My students today can track down information in the blink of an eye. However, they often struggle to know what to do with that information.
Having realized this, I am constantly trying to modify the way I teach to capitalize on their skills and to improve their deficiencies.

For instance, for the last two weeks of this past semester I tracked down an old (30 years) exercise book that is out of print and assigned some pages from it. Since the book is old and obscure, the answers are not available on the internet. It was a nice reality-check for the students to assess what they've really learned over the semester, and what they've just learned to look up online.

There's a lot of promise in this generation, but they'll have to work for it (like every other generation). Information is not knowledge.


Can you post that section? You shared it once before, and I meant to use it, but it slipped my mind.

Help yourself:



Professionalism and Respect:

Among other things, one of the principal goals of a university education is to prepare students for professional careers. As part of this transition to professional life, personal demeanor and conduct will play an important role in creating a suitable atmosphere for teaching and learning.

All members of this class – instructors and students alike – should use courteous and respectful language in all communications, written and oral, as befits professional interaction. This is especially necessary in this digital age where communication is virtually instantaneous. Informality in e-mail messages (content and format), slangy abbreviations, “SMS” language/“textese,” and disregard for fundamental grammar are inappropriate in a professional context.

In addition, please refrain from disrespectful activities while in class, since they can distract both the instructor and other students. These activities include, but are not limited to, chronic tardiness, eating, sleeping, sending/reading text messages, reading the newspaper, doing crossword puzzles, etc. Engaging in such activities will negatively impact the student’s participation grade. Obviously, abusive or harassing language and behavior will not be tolerated.

[LA Ute]

How to Tell if College Presidents Are Overpaid (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-12/how-to-tell-if-college-presidents-are-overpaid.html)

[U-Ute]

How the incentives for universities these days lead them to give financial aid to those who can otherwise afford it, while not giving it to those who can't.


As these data suggest, colleges are not just looking for the best and brightest students. They are also working hard to bring wealthy students to their campuses in order to maximize their revenue. The schools generally try to achieve this goal by offering generous institutional aid awards to these otherwise “full-pay” students — that is, students whose families can afford to pay advertised tuition rates. After all, it’s more profitable for schools to provide four scholarships of $5,000 each to induce affluent students who will be able to pay the balance than it is to provide a single $20,000 grant to one low-income student.


The competition for the wealthy is so strong that 10 percent of college admissions directors at four-year colleges (and nearly 20 percent of those at private liberal arts colleges) reported that they give affluent students a significant leg up in the admissions process — meaning that they are admitting full-pay students with lower grades and test scores than other applicants. These colleges are, in other words, providing affirmative action for the wealthy, despite all of the extraordinary advantages that these students have over their less-fortunate peers.

Full study (http://newamerica.net/sites/newamerica.net/files/policydocs/Merit_Aid%20Final.pdf)

[wuapinmon]

How the incentives for universities these days lead them to give financial aid to those who can otherwise afford it, while not giving it to those who can't.





Full study (http://newamerica.net/sites/newamerica.net/files/policydocs/Merit_Aid%20Final.pdf)

This is why all the small colleges in the South suddenly have lacrosse teams.

[LA Ute]

Georgia Tech will be offering an online master's degree in computer science:

http://www.cringely.com/2013/07/10/georgia-techs-7000-polyester-masters-in-computer-science/


Georgia Tech is a major research university. In big research universities research and publishing count for everything and teaching counts for close to nothing, which is why there are so many bad teachers with endowed professorships. . . . Research grad students are slave labor while professional grad students are cash cows for their institutions and matter mostly for the money they can pay. Computer science is a research field but this new degree at Georgia Tech is specifically branded as being a professional degree. While that sounds extra-important what it really means is the students won’t matter at all to the University, which sees them strictly as cash flow — up to $18 million per year according to the business plan.

[Ma'ake]

Every generation brings behavioral & attitude peculiarities that defy their elders. We all did.

This generation is running headlong into a general shift in the employment landscape since about 2000, and some (hopefully) short term imbalances between productivity and employment. (Corporations and the wealthy are awash in money, productivity is very high, but aggregate demand is not rising enough to generate enough jobs, especially "good" jobs, which is in turn contributing to the overall sluggish demand).

A couple of MIT professors, McAfee and Brynjolfsson have tracked the impact of technology on employment, with some sobering explanations for some of the current displacement, and potentially highly disruptive trends for the future. http://www.technologyreview.com/featuredstory/515926/how-technology-is-destroying-jobs/

The stagnant labor market either dampens the Millenials' sense of entitlement, or it will help fuel upheaval, among Millenials and a lot of folks who've been displaced and not fully recovered in the last 10 years.

[LA Ute]

Who Ruined the Humanities?

Of course it's important to read the great poets and novelists. But not in a university classroom, where literature has been turned into a bland, soulless competition for grades and status.

http://m.us.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887323823004578595803296798048

[Solon]

The MOOCs are coming!!!

http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2013/10/economist-explains

According to RUMOR, small colleges are investigating registering their own students for MOOCS, then hiring graders to assign & score quizzes based on the content. They pay a nominal fee to the folks who are doing the MOOC (and/or their institution), but essentially the small colleges get to rent the courses of a Stanford or MIT professor and pay a TA $10/hr. to run the class's logistics. The underlying assumption that knowledge & teaching can be boiled down into little single-serving packets, and that once an online course is in place all a school has to do is hire a cafeteria worker to sling the slop onto the students' plates is a pretty naive way of looking at education.

Don't get me wrong. The MOOC phenomenon is cool for some reasons. The access to MOOC information can vastly enrich a teaching experience, and obviously online teaching & learning have revolutionized access to higher education.

But the predictions of the inevitable demise of the university system are a bit premature.

[Mormon Red Death]

The MOOCs are coming!!!

http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2013/10/economist-explains

According to RUMOR, small colleges are investigating registering their own students for MOOCS, then hiring graders to assign & score quizzes based on the content. They pay a nominal fee to the folks who are doing the MOOC (and/or their institution), but essentially the small colleges get to rent the courses of a Stanford or MIT professor and pay a TA $10/hr. to run the class's logistics. The underlying assumption that knowledge & teaching can be boiled down into little single-serving packets, and that once an online course is in place all a school has to do is hire a cafeteria worker to sling the slop onto the students' plates is a pretty naive way of looking at education.

Don't get me wrong. The MOOC phenomenon is cool for some reasons. The access to MOOC information can vastly enrich a teaching experience, and obviously online teaching & learning have revolutionized access to higher education.

But the predictions of the inevitable demise of the university system are a bit premature.

honestly I can see them go further. How about a gigantic e-book that has video lectures, assignments and virtual "learning activities"? A bunch of professors get together and compile a whole humanities or economics coures load. Skip the whole university all together.

[Solon]

They did this in "Diamond Age" by Neil Stephenson, and it led to world war.

Harvard, Stanford, and MIT are loving the MOOC "revolution". They have nothing to fear. People assume that their lectures are of the highest quality. But you don't become a professor at those schools for your teaching ability. There are many great lecturers out there who could do a better job.

You make a fine point, my friend.

The research is ongoing, but it seems like online education can be just as effective as face-to-face teaching if the students are motivated, capable, etc.
If the students are marginal, or don't put in the work, or whatever, they do worse in online courses than in a classroom setting.

To me, this suggests that putting more graduate courses online might be a useful tool for certain programs. Unfortunately, it seems like most schools prefer to put the lower-division classes online, thus putting the beginning students in a potentially tougher spot.

At my school, I had a meeting last week with the Director of Continuing Education who wants to adapt one of my upper-division face-to-face classes to offer it online (I developed the class as an Interdisciplinarity seminar, and the folks who paid me to develop it turned it over to him). I gladly handed him the syllabus, readings, powerpoint slides, handouts, exams, etc. and told him to go for it. His goal was to develop a class that essentially a trained monkey could run by unlocking the modules on the correct days. I think he was stunned by the amount of knowledge and preparation that go into an upper-division course, from both instructors & students. He is now looking for another class to put online.

[wuapinmon]

I'm not worried about the end of higher ed. Andrew Wiggin was a professor on Trondheim, and that's like 3,000 years from now.

[wuapinmon]

Recent research suggests that reading literary fiction makes you more empathetic, which speaks volumes about my switch from die-hard conservative to left-leaning moderate since I studied literature for 12 years, and have been teaching it for 15.

http://news.sciencemag.org/brain-behavior/2013/10/want-read-minds-read-good-books

[wuapinmon]

The study's conclusion seems almost obvious. I credit literature for a good portion of my (albeit limited) understanding of people.

But I don't see a strong connection between empathy and political leanings.

Well, the connection I see, in my own life, is that I tie empathy in with understanding the viewpoint of someone else enough for it to modify my own opinions if I find value in what their experience is. I'm sure I mentioned this ad nauseum for most of you on CUF, but it changed me. I saw how the government reacted to the suffering of those people, how the media addressed the suffering, how the people at church described the suffering, and something inside of me changed. I knew many of those people, including scores of folks in the Superdome, and they were not what everyone was describing, and I began to not buy what the mainstream/party line was selling. I really truly began to question everything and to listen to and read about the perspectives of others after that storm; it left a scar on me that will never heal. Without all of the literature I read, I'm not sure that I would've arrived where I am now because it opened my eyes to the experiences of other people that I will never have as a Southern white male American. That's not to say that I agree with all of the stuff I read: Rigoberta Menchú annoys me. But, I think I understand where she was coming from.

Does that help clarify what I meant? I don't mean to say that there aren't empathetic conservatives; I do mean to say that my personal conversion away from conservatism was borne on the backs of a flood of empathy in my heart and mind.

[LA Ute]

Does that help clarify what I meant? I don't mean to say that there aren't empathetic conservatives; I do mean to say that my personal conversion away from conservatism was borne on the backs of a flood of empathy in my heart and mind.

Yes, it does. Where reasonable people disagree is on the role of government in reducing human suffering. That issue has been at the center of the debate ever since the New Deal. In that debate I'm a Jack Kemp (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Kemp#Legacy) Republican.

[wuapinmon]

That makes a lot more sense. Thanks.



This is true of everyone I met while in NOLA. I've never had first hand experience with anything else like it.

Your NOLA group is an inspiration. I didn't get there until a year after the storm (right after you left for South Carolina), but I know the people and their stories well. The examples of willingness shown by the NOLA branch after the storm are something I think about every time someone asks for volunteers in a priesthood meeting.

Thank you. I love those people: Van Dams, Bradys, Lindseys, Alldredges, Hansens, and so many others. It was the best time I've ever had as a member of the Church. But, damn! It was hard to live through.

[wuapinmon]

Those are my people too! There are so many things about that unit and that city that are irreplaceable. I have loved every place I have lived, but I really only miss NOLA.

These videos will kill you then.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgwVJDkXjP8

[wuapinmon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krJW2qMVv4M

[wuapinmon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-atDxmfnIrI

[wuapinmon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InqnQ8vU3DU

[wuapinmon]

Some of the events I've come up with this semester.

https://scontent-a-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1379333_10100300488166129_285724656_n.jpghttps://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/1378365_10100300479214069_1321544903_n.jpghttps://scontent-a-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/1381561_10100299128371169_1602278895_n.jpghttps://scontent-a-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash2/285754_986409610099_1076161946_n.jpghttps://scontent-a-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/998652_10100273482306089_1295289794_n.jpg

[LA Ute]

I suspect you are a fun professor to have, Don Mac, and probably quite beloved. I love the Fund Razor idea.

[Mormon Red Death]

Those are my people too! There are so many things about that unit and that city that are irreplaceable. I have loved every place I have lived, but I really only miss NOLA.

Did you go to the building in the garden district? If so we went there for about a month and a half when I was working down there.

There was one member who was like ray (the fire fly) in the princess and the frog. In fact I'm pretty sure he was the voice.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

[wuapinmon]

Yes, after the hurricane, that was the only game left in town. Brother Charles is the Ray voice you're talking about.

Charles Young, St. Charles, the best damn usher the Church has ever or will ever have. He joined while we lived there, and the branch presidency decided that usher was the perfect calling for him. I'll never forget the look in his eyes when I extended the call to him, "You want meeeeee to be the usher?" Joy, complete and pure, was his.

[Scorcho]

speaking as a U Business School Grad (Finance) this is some nice recognition.

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=27589924&nid=148&title=u-mba-program-jumps-into-national-top-40-report-says&fm=home_page&s_cid=queue-3 (http://www.ksl.com/?sid=27589924&nid=148&title=u-mba-program-jumps-into-national-top-40-report-says&fm=home_page&s_cid=queue-3)

[wuapinmon]

Here's my latest project: The No Shave November Fund Razor. This year an anonymous donor has pledged to match all donations to the scholarship (up to $500) with a corresponding donation to Typhoon Haiyan relief efforts. If we raise $1000, and the Heisenberg wins, then all participants at the "Sir" level, as opposed to the lesser "Mister" level, will shave their faces and heads into The Heisenberg. Anyone wishing to vote online may do so via this website: https://www.coker.edu/gifts

https://scontent-a-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1466106_10100321401994649_636671616_n.jpg

http://marcom.coker.edu/attachments/token/sog4l0jnsj098nn/?name=fund_razor2013.jpg

[wuapinmon]

It's a simple rule. No translation programs. Open book final. No translation programs. Yet, they still do it.

[Solon]

It's a simple rule. No translation programs. Open book final. No translation programs. Yet, they still do it.

Is it a take-home final exam?
Or are they pulling up translators in class?

I'm starting to think about going completely in for take-home exams, at least in upper-division classes. I think I would get better efforts from the students and a more realistic training for their future, where there's no dearth of information but students have a hard time assessing & processing it.

I've caught people using outsmart.it twice this semester. Both times the paper was almost incomprehensible and really easy to see that something was off. They beat turnitin.com alright.


I just punched the above post into outsmart.it. Here's what I got:



Is it a take-home final exam?
Or are they pulling up translators in class?

I'm commencing to contemplate concerning going completely in for take-home exams, at least in upper-division classes. I contemplate I should become larger efforts from the students and a extra realistic training for their upcoming, whereas there's no dearth of data but students have a hard period assessing & processing it.

I've caught people employing outsmart.it twice this semester. Both periods the paper was nearly incomprehensible and truly facile to discern that something was off. They beat turnitin.com alright.

[Mormon Red Death]

It's a simple rule. No translation programs. Open book final. No translation programs. Yet, they still do it.

Does your university have the lockdown browser? That works pretty well

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

[wuapinmon]

Is it a take-home final exam?
Or are they pulling up translators in class?

I'm starting to think about going completely in for take-home exams, at least in upper-division classes. I think I would get better efforts from the students and a more realistic training for their future, where there's no dearth of information but students have a hard time assessing & processing it.

I've caught people using outsmart.it twice this semester. Both times the paper was almost incomprehensible and really easy to see that something was off. They beat turnitin.com alright.


I just punched the above post into outsmart.it. Here's what I got:



Holy crap, that's bad, but it'll get better. Sometimes I pick an unknown story for a test just so I know that there's nothing out there on it, and they'll have to do the work. Take home tests reflect reality and synthesis, and I like them, but the pedagogues crow about it being an arbitrary assessment.


Does your university have the lockdown browser? That works pretty well

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

It's open book, open note, open internet search, and it's online. The only thing I forbid them from using are translation programs. I ask them to be on their honor. They always claim, "I thought you said.." bullshit. Using a translation program = you don't learn a damned thing. The part they use it on is a paragraph using reflexives in the preterit about what they did when they woke up that morning to get ready. Lots of "me levanté" and "me duché" stuff that would be very easy with a textbook open to that section. Nope, they'd rather write it in English and click "submit." One kid even left, "suallyI" in a section among the Spanish. I have them sign my own honor code, and it means nothing to some of them. It's almost always rich kids and it's fundamental laziness, and I don't think anyone has ever called them on it. I do. Some own up to it, in which case I let is slide with a warning. If they say, "I thought you said" or something similar trying to shift the blame, I fail them on that question. But, if they lie and deny....

http://static.bbc.co.uk/earthscience/images/ic/640x360/natural_disasters/volcano.jpg

[Devildog]

But, if they lie and deny....


Yeah Waup... You wouldn't like being a cop.

[Diehard Ute]

Yeah Waup... You wouldn't like being a cop.

Nope.

The rarity is people who don't lie in my world

[wuapinmon]

Yeah Waup... You wouldn't like being a cop.

The only corrections I want to make are with my students' papers, not their lives. I would never be a cop.


Nope.

The rarity is people who don't lie in my world

What's so bad is that you can tell when they're lying. The facial gestures, the tone of indignation in their voice, eye contact, it's easy to see without words really, when someone is lying to you if you accuse them of doing something.

But, then again, I never accuse unless I know.

[Diehard Ute]

The only corrections I want to make are with my students' papers, not their lives. I would never be a cop.



What's so bad is that you can tell when they're lying. The facial gestures, the tone of indignation in their voice, eye contact, it's easy to see without words really, when someone is lying to you if you accuse them of doing something.

But, then again, I never accuse unless I know.

With us people will lie to cover their lies...even when we've shown them we have proof.

We'll even tell people "remember, I already know the answers to the questions I'm asking you" and they'll still lie.

Oh well. Job security I guess.

[UtahDan]

Nope.

The rarity is people who don't lie in my world

I think it must be remarkably hard for someone in your line of work not to develop a dim view of humanity.

[Diehard Ute]

I think it must be remarkably hard for someone in your line of work not to develop a dim view of humanity.

You just leave it at work.

Yeah we're not trusting, but you learn to appreciate the good friends and family more.

[Damage U]

Is there any Elementary Ed teachers here? I could use some directions and opinions.
Reading the first few pages of this thread got me thinking about the situation my son is in. Though it's a bit below "Higher Education" at this time, I think it will soon become pertinent in his education. He's a 3rd grader now. Last year he was a finalist in the second grade spelling bee. He was spelling 3 and 4 syllable words and may have missed 5 or 6 words all year. Fast forward to this year as part of common core the school district is pushing a program called Words Their Way. My son is now spelling one syllable words like pare, pair and pear but he not being taught the definitions. His first spelling test he missed 5 words, because he spelled the wrong hare, hair or pair, pear (earlier post in this thread example, cannon or canon) . His spelling homework consists of "sorting" which boils down to putting the round peg into the round hole and the square peg into the square hole. My wife has talked to his teacher and there does seem to be a mythical method to the madness, something to do with vowels and consonant and their order.
After the first month I've done away with the sorting homework and have gone back to the old school way of memorizing the spelling and knowing the definitions. He's aced every test since.

[Solon]

Is there any Elementary Ed teachers here? I could use some directions and opinions.
Reading the first few pages of this thread got me thinking about the situation my son is in. Though it's a bit below "Higher Education" at this time, I think it will soon become pertinent in his education. He's a 3rd grader now. Last year he was a finalist in the second grade spelling bee. He was spelling 3 and 4 syllable words and may have missed 5 or 6 words all year. Fast forward to this year as part of common core the school district is pushing a program called Words Their Way. My son is now spelling one syllable words like pare, pair and pear but he not being taught the definitions. His first spelling test he missed 5 words, because he spelled the wrong hare, hair or pair, pear (earlier post in this thread example, cannon or canon) . His spelling homework consists of "sorting" which boils down to putting the round peg into the round hole and the square peg into the square hole. My wife has talked to his teacher and there does seem to be a mythical method to the madness, something to do with vowels and consonant and their order.
After the first month I've done away with the sorting homework and have gone back to the old school way of memorizing the spelling and knowing the definitions. He's aced every test since.


My wife does Math Ed., which makes me an expert in overhearing what people are complaining about in math.
I don't know about how it goes for spelling specifically, but the uproar over the Common Core is pretty overblown - at least in my neck of the woods.

According to my wife, the bottom line on ALL the research is essentially teacher knowledge - whether it's pedagogical content (how to teach) or subject content (what to teach), how smart/capable the teacher is makes the biggest difference on how well the kids do.

Nevertheless, we continue to think that the new expensive technology or the new magic curriculum will solve all of the problems. All of the curricula have strengths and weaknesses. A good teacher can maximize the strengths and compensate for the weaknesses. I think that as long as society keeps spending its precious education dollars on technology & administrators instead of getting the best possible teachers that we'll still struggle to make progress.

I am not suggesting that technology & administrators are unimportant; just that they are not as important as the quality of the teacher for educational success.

Damage, it sounds like you're a good, conscientious, involved parent.
I'll bet your kid will be just fine as long as you & your wife keep working with him.

[wuapinmon]

Is there any Elementary Ed teachers here? I could use some directions and opinions.
Reading the first few pages of this thread got me thinking about the situation my son is in. Though it's a bit below "Higher Education" at this time, I think it will soon become pertinent in his education. He's a 3rd grader now. Last year he was a finalist in the second grade spelling bee. He was spelling 3 and 4 syllable words and may have missed 5 or 6 words all year. Fast forward to this year as part of common core the school district is pushing a program called Words Their Way. My son is now spelling one syllable words like pare, pair and pear but he not being taught the definitions. His first spelling test he missed 5 words, because he spelled the wrong hare, hair or pair, pear (earlier post in this thread example, cannon or canon) . His spelling homework consists of "sorting" which boils down to putting the round peg into the round hole and the square peg into the square hole. My wife has talked to his teacher and there does seem to be a mythical method to the madness, something to do with vowels and consonant and their order.
After the first month I've done away with the sorting homework and have gone back to the old school way of memorizing the spelling and knowing the definitions. He's aced every test since.

I hear you about spelling. The don't teach cursive anymore. Kids can't sign their names. They can't spell. Teachers in 3rd grade will let kids spell words however they want because "it's better that they be writing than not." My child was in 6th grade before she was expected to know her times tables from memory. She still can't do basic mental math. Your work with your children will pay off. It's an investment in their future that requires sacrifice now, when you're tired, worn out, exhausted from a long day. Their minds are little sponges, and if you expose them to things, they will learn and do better and grow. I applaud the old school ways you're using. Just be sure not to undermine the teacher's authority. I made that mistake with my oldest, and I've not succeeded in getting her to fully respect her teachers still.

[Damage U]

Thanks Solon and wuapinmon,

As far as math goes, I have mixed feelings. I do like that they are getting started early on it. The biggest problem I have is the new way of teaching it has kept me from helping him. There is no "right" way to get the answer. My son has 10 -15 ways he can choose form to get an answer. About all I can do is tell him if he got it correct. I can see how this may help him think algebraically. It doesn't seem to hinder him, he's tops in his class. I hear you wuap on the times tables. I tried telling my son about them and he looked at me like I was off my rocker.
Spelling is the beast I'm battling. I have done my best in not undermining his teacher. I think that the problems we have in education are because of the machine that the education system has become. The art of teaching is being lost. I liked the video that tooblue put up on the 1st page. I mainly feel that the 3rd grade has been a step or two backwards.

Thanks again for your opinions. Do either of you have any opinions on charter schools?

[U-Ute]

There was a post on Reddit yesterday where someone took notes on the out loud comments her boyfriend made as he graded papers. His views on red pens are particularly amusing...

http://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/1t2r5p/my_boyfriend_is_sitting_next_to_me_grading/

[Solon]

Easterbrook's TMQ column on ESPN.com mentioned this site recently:

http://spendingdatabase.knightcommission.org/

I love football. I really do.
But the school I work at couldn't afford to buy library books for the past few years; the same years that many people retired and weren't replaced, and part-timers & non-essential staff were laid off; the same years that football spending shot through the roof.

This is an FCS school - no swanky TV deals to justify the expenses.

Here's the Utah site, although I think the numbers are jacked because of the switch to the PAC.

http://spendingdatabase.knightcommission.org/fbs/pac-12/university-of-utah

[tooblue]

York University professor who refused student’s request to be separated from female classmates broke ‘obligation to accommodate’: officials

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/01/08/york-university-professor-who-refused-students-request-to-be-separated-from-female-classmates-broke-obligation-to-accommodate-officials/


After refusing to honour a male student’s request to be separated from his female classmates for religious reasons, a York University professor has found himself at odds with administrators who assert he broke their “obligation to accommodate ...”

A student, who remains nameless due to privacy reasons, asked to be counted out of a scheduled group project due to the course’s heavy preponderance of female students ...

After getting wind of the resolution — as well as Mr. Grayson’s stated refusal to honour his accommodation — the student cheerfully backed off ...

He attended the group session without protest and even wrote a memo to Mr. Grayson thanking him “for the way you have handled this request.”

“He’s a reasonable guy,” said Mr. Grayson.

Nevertheless, the rejection incensed university brass. According to Mr. Grayson, on October 18, he received a letter from the Dean of the Faculty of Liberal Arts and Professional Studies ordering him to accommodate the student’s wishes.

[LA Ute]

Even Mother Jones is in on the action.

(http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2014/01/graduate-school-racket?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed)Is Graduate School a Racket? (http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2014/01/graduate-school-racket?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed)

[tooblue]

Even Mother Jones is in on the action.

(http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2014/01/graduate-school-racket?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed)Is Graduate School a Racket? (http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2014/01/graduate-school-racket?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed)


Has the ratio of full-timers to part-timers plummeted everywhere?

In my institution of higher learning the answer is yes. It's a nightmare. Our enrolment is growing with fewer full-time faculty to teach core curriculum classes. Too many part-time faculty lack the real world experience and skills to be effective in the class room. We started back to classes this week and three part time teachers have already been canned for simply not showing up to the first class.

[Mormon Red Death]

In my institution of higher learning the answer is yes. It's a nightmare. Our enrolment is growing with fewer full-time faculty to teach core curriculum classes. Too many part-time faculty lack the real world experience and skills to be effective in the class room. We started back to classes this week and three part time teachers have already been canned for simply not showing up to the first class.

Speaking from experience it's a nice and pretty easy part time job. especially the online classes.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

[tooblue]

Speaking from experience it's a nice and pretty easy part time job. especially the online classes.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

Where I work, the system is broken right now. Admin has adopted the part-time model spoken of in the article in order to cut costs. However, they are trying to do it using a fifty year old delivery model. Our union is too powerful and the biggest stumbling block. Classes can only run between 8:00 am and 6:00 pm. A complex formula of contact hours, times number of students divided by a new prep versus a class I have previously taught variable prohibits me from being optimally used to deliver core curriculum. This semester is the first semester I have not been in border line non union sanctioned overtime. I'm exhausted. I finally said enough. It's crazy.

[Scorcho]

some nice recognition for the U's Law School

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=28466091&nid=148&title=u-of-u-ranks-2nd-among-law-schools-nationally&fm=home_page&s_cid=queue-1 (http://www.ksl.com/?sid=28466091&nid=148&title=u-of-u-ranks-2nd-among-law-schools-nationally&fm=home_page&s_cid=queue-1)

[LA Ute]

some nice recognition for the U's Law School

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=28466091&nid=148&title=u-of-u-ranks-2nd-among-law-schools-nationally&fm=home_page&s_cid=queue-1 (http://www.ksl.com/?sid=28466091&nid=148&title=u-of-u-ranks-2nd-among-law-schools-nationally&fm=home_page&s_cid=queue-1)

Boo-yah!

[LA Ute]

From Instapundit (http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/183637/), a blog written by a law professor at Tennessee:


HIGHER EDUCATION BUBBLE UPDATE: Administrator Hiring Drove 28% Boom in Higher-Ed Work Force, Report Says. “What’s more, the report says, the number of full-time faculty and staff members per professional or managerial administrator has declined 40 percent, to around 2.5 to 1. . . . And the kicker: You can’t blame faculty salaries for the rise in tuition. Faculty salaries were ‘essentially flat’ from 2000 to 2012, the report says. And ‘we didn’t see the savings that we would have expected from the shift to part-time faculty,’ said Donna M. Desrochers, an author of the report.”

The report is at http://chronicle.com/article/Administrator-Hiring-Drove-28-/144519/?cid=at&utm_source=at&utm_medium=en

[tooblue]

Any one want to read my abstract. It's not long (200 words), just looking for some thoughts.

[Mormon Red Death]

Smaller colleges facing fiscal problems and declining enrollment (http://money.msn.com/business-news/article.aspx?feed=BLOOM&date=20140414&id=17522017)

[mUUser]

Taking my daughter to visit BYU, Utah and USU this week…campus visits, department visits, apartment & condo hunting, ending with the game on Saturday night. I have a feeling my other daughter is burning out with softball and will transfer to Utah or USU next year -- might have two at Utah in the next couple of years. Can't believe how quickly this is going. Sigh….

[U-Ute]

Stories from the classroom...

University/college lecturers of Reddit, what's the most bizarre thing you've seen a student do in one of your lectures? (http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/2ihn30/universitycollege_lecturers_of_reddit_whats_the/)

[chrisrenrut]

Stories from the classroom...

University/college lecturers of Reddit, what's the most bizarre thing you've seen a student do in one of your lectures? (http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/2ihn30/universitycollege_lecturers_of_reddit_whats_the/)

Man, I just wasted so much time reading that thread. Too entertaining.

[mUUser]

On the front page of Yahoo today.

https://www.yahoo.com/parenting/father-of-8-wont-save-money-for-college-101272650372.html

Right or wrong, we're paying for whatever scholarships don't cover to allow them to graduate debt free.

[Solon]

On the front page of Yahoo today.

https://www.yahoo.com/parenting/father-of-8-wont-save-money-for-college-101272650372.html

Right or wrong, we're paying for whatever scholarships don't cover to allow them to graduate debt free.

It's right. The guy makes a couple of good points: 1. College isn't for everybody & 2. Kids need to be very aware of how much college costs & how to pay for it.

but, like so many other weirdos, the extreme position isn't doing any favors. There is a lot more to value in a college education than just increased earning potential.

[LA Ute]

There is a lot more to value in a college education than just increased earning potential.

This is a core issue, if not THE core issue. Conservative intellectuals like William Bennett need to step up and make that argument more often and prominently, IMO.

[Ma'ake]

This is a core issue, if not THE core issue. Conservative intellectuals like William Bennett need to step up and make that argument more often and prominently, IMO.

My "degree to nowhere", Economics, has enabled me to be much more aware of things around me, led to a lifetime of exploring other topics, helped me make wise career decisions. Writing Econ and Poli Sci papers were invaluable preparation for being able to express myself in other contexts, for understanding broader landscapes.

I've found that critical thinking skills are essential when I hire people in important roles. I've hired a few very bright technicians who didn't have degrees, and though they're really good at tactical decision making and problem solving, they quickly get lost and make erroneous decisions when having to venture outside their immediate sphere of expertise. Experts at trees, can't see the forest.

[concerned]

My partner graduated from Georgetown and last week went to an alumni breakfast where the provost or dean or somebody like that spoke. He told them how much the landscape of a college education is going to change over the next 10-20 years, given on-line learning. He said they have a think tank set up to try to figure it out, and that people arent going to continue to spend $50K to $60K a year. He thought as many as 100-150 private colleges could close in that time because parents and students wont pay for it, although it wont affect the really selective private colleges. The entire model of higher ed is ripe for signficant overhaul.

[Solon]

My "degree to nowhere", Economics, has enabled me to be much more aware of things around me, led to a lifetime of exploring other topics, helped me make wise career decisions. Writing Econ and Poli Sci papers were invaluable preparation for being able to express myself in other contexts, for understanding broader landscapes.

I've found that critical thinking skills are essential when I hire people in important roles. I've hired a few very bright technicians who didn't have degrees, and though they're really good at tactical decision making and problem solving, they quickly get lost and make erroneous decisions when having to venture outside their immediate sphere of expertise. Experts at trees, can't see the forest.

If I were starting over again, I would probably major in Econ. It's definitely my 2nd-favorite discipline.

It's probably more due to correlation than causation, but there is a gigantic relationship between women who have college degrees & kids' success in school. No other factor even comes close to matching the outcomes. I share this all the time with young women who are thinking they will drop out of college when they get married. College graduates have more successful children.

http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21608779-there-large-class-divide-how-americans-raise-their-children-rich-parents-can

http://cdn.static-economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/original-size/images/print-edition/20140726_USC375.png

[jrj84105]

Thanks Solon and wuapinmon,

I hear you wuap on the times tables. I tried telling my son about them and he looked at me like I was off my rocker.

This is how I learned multiplication as a kid. We had school and county championships for this game.

http://www.mathwire.com/games/contig.pdf

Some things not on the score sheet:
You can mark any number you want. You are allowed to bluff a result, but your opponent may ask you to give your calculation. If he/she correctly calls the bluff he gets the points and you get a 0 for the round. The number remains marked. The bluffing and lying part is what makes the game interesting for kids.

[LA Ute]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNihymK_XJA&amp;feature=youtu.be

[mUUser]

We recently took a college visit to Texas A&M with my HS Senior. Turns out the new president is Michael Young. Interestingly, he has been president of 3 of the top 4 choices -- Utah, TAMU and Washington. TAMU got crossed off the list this weekend.

[LA Ute]

"Western culture has become inaccessible to the general public because we have lost the ability to see the world through the eyes of those who created it. A generation ago, the literary critic Harold Bloom complained in The Western Canon that it no longer was possible to teach English literature to undergraduates because they lacked the cultural references to make sense of it: imagine reading Moby Dick without knowing who Ishmael and Ahab were in the Bible, or Joyce’s Ulysses without knowing that someone named Homer had written an epic about a certain Odysseus. (Outside the English realm, Bloom is guilty of the same sort of ignorance, but that is a different matter).

"There is a deeper problem, though: Why should we read works by long-dead authors with concerns entirely different than ours, and if we should, how can we do so?"

-- A Thoughtless Age (http://pjmedia.com/spengler/2015/08/09/a-thoughtless-age/)

[LA Ute]

Curious what Solon and others in academia think of this, by Peter Dreier. He "teaches politics and chairs the Urban & Environmental Policy Department at Occidental College."

Academic Drivel Report
Confessing my sins and exposing my academic hoax.

http://prospect.org/article/academic-drivel-report


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[LA Ute]

That was fun. Don't lawyers do the same thing, though?

When I read stuff that is intentionally written to be unintelligible, I just assume it's void of content. I feel safe in that assumption.

Lawyers do obfuscate sometimes but when we are writing we have to convince someone (usually a judge) we are right, and we have opponents who keep us on our toes. What Drieier says makes me wonder if the same rigor is applied consistently these days in academia.


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[LA Ute]

Wow. I had never heard of some of these institutions.

The 100 Highest-Paid University Presidents

http://colleges.startclass.com/stories/8914/highest-paid-university-presidents?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social.paid&utm_campaign=ao.sp.fb.dt.8914#Intro

[Diehard Ute]

Wow. I had never heard of some of these institutions.

The 100 Highest-Paid University Presidents

http://colleges.startclass.com/stories/8914/highest-paid-university-presidents?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social.paid&utm_campaign=ao.sp.fb.dt.8914#Intro

What's up with Ohio State?

And the North Dakota guy is getting rich.


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[LA Ute]

This is a fascinating window into what I suppose is Millennial thinking.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfO1veFs6Ho

I am a nine-foot tall Vietnamese eagle, by the way.

[LA Ute]

A Confession of Liberal Intolerance

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/05/08/opinion/sunday/a-confession-of-liberal-intolerance.html?smid=tw-share&referer=https%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2FVMVNICcnTG%2Fs%2F6RVF


"It's men in shorts." -- Rick Majerus

[LA Ute]

Interesting short op-ed, expanding on Kristof's points in the op-ed linked in my last post. I worry about this happening to the U. of U. It could get ugly because of the added religious element.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/05/07/kristofs-confession-of-liberal-intolerance/


The effects of ideological orthodoxy on the quality of higher education may not spur university faculties to reform themselves, but self-interest might. We academics are a fortunate lot, increasingly divorced from society at large. At the same time, many universities are heavily subsidized by the state, and thousands of college grads are swimming in debt. I doubt this is a sustainable equilibrium.

After all, how long will taxpayers in red states be willing to subsidize universities that appear to be their ideological enemies? In a politically polarized nation, why subsidize the other side?


"It's men in shorts." -- Rick Majerus

[NorthwestUteFan]

Wouldn't be surprising. Brigham Young shut down the U in the mid 1850s because it didn't teach courses in a manner supportive of his theology.

In many ways it would be nice to go back to the old model where state universities were effectively free.

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

Wouldn't be surprising. Brigham Young shut down the U in the mid 1850s because it didn't teach courses in a manner supportive of his theology.

In many ways it would be nice to go back to the old model where state universities were effectively free.

Not until they shut down the liberal BYU Bookstore first.

http://archive.sltrib.com/story.php?ref=/sltrib/news/51706707-78/mcnaughton-byu-painting-bookstore.html.csp


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[UtahsMrSports]

Wouldn't be surprising. Brigham Young shut down the U in the mid 1850s because it didn't teach courses in a manner supportive of his theology.

In many ways it would be nice to go back to the old model where state universities were effectively free.

Or due to lack of funding and feeder schools in the still-settling salt lake valley, but hey........

[NorthwestUteFan]

Or due to lack of funding and feeder schools in the still-settling salt lake valley, but hey........
Funding was a real problem, as was finfing a continuous location. This is the reason we should revere John Park as the true founder of the University of Utah. And perhaps this is the reason Park chose the site on property owned by the US Army at Fort Douglas.

This quote gives a peek into the mind of Brigham Young:

"We have enough and to spare, at the present time in these mountains, of schools where young infidels are made because the teachers are so tender-footed that they dare not mention the principles of the gospel to their pupils, but have no hesitancy in introducing into the classroom the theories of Huxley, or Darwin, or Mill and the false political economy which contend against co-operation and the United Order. This course I am resolutely and uncompromisingly opposed to, and I hope to see the day when the doctrines of the gospel will be taught in our schools, when the revelations of the Lord will be our texts, and our books will be written and manufactured by ourselves in our own midst. As a beginning in this direction I have endowed the Brigham Young Academy in Provo."

Brigham Young, Letters of Brigham Young to his Sons

[NorthwestUteFan]

On a serious note, we recently saw just how petty the state legislature can be. It only takes a couple of legislators to get a bee in their bonnet to create a significant problem for the University. State Universities exist on funding from the state, but if the state refused to find them based on an ideological basis (whether religious or political), them they will scramble to find funding in other places including through raised tuition.

Here in Washington, UW makes up budget shortfalls by accepting an increasingly higher percentage of out-of-state students rather than in-state. OOS tuition is $20k+ higher than in-state ($34k vs $12k).

[Diehard Ute]

On a serious note, we recently saw just how petty the state legislature can be. It only takes a couple of legislators to get a bee in their bonnet to create a significant problem for the University. State Universities exist on funding from the state, but if the state refused to find them based on an ideological basis (whether religious or political), them they will scramble to find funding in other places including through raised tuition.

Here in Washington, UW makes up budget shortfalls by accepting an increasingly higher percentage of out-of-state students rather than in-state. OOS tuition is $20k+ higher than in-state ($34k vs $12k).

People would be shocked if they saw how small the states contribution to the U really is




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[NorthwestUteFan]

People would be shocked if they saw how small the states contribution to the U really is




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The problem is the fact that the Universities accept an amount of anything over $1 means the state legislature still holds the school by the short hairs. Their power over the school likely outpaces the expectation based on the dollar amount given.

We used to see this at the U hospital. The state have us around 2% of our budget (including reimbursements), and in return we had to treat all of the prisoners, as well as having all of the homeless or indigent people shunted away from LDS Hospital.

[Diehard Ute]

The problem is the fact that the Universities accept an amount of anything over $1 means the state legislature still holds the school by the short hairs. Their power over the school likely outpaces the expectation based on the dollar amount given.

We used to see this at the U hospital. The state have us around 2% of our budget (including reimbursements), and in return we had to treat all of the prisoners, as well as having all of the homeless or indigent people shunted away from LDS Hospital.

Well treating the prisoners is a good thing. Having worked in billing at the U the best paying patients were prisoners. They paid more than Medicare

The last year I worked there the U wrote off about $250,000,000 in charges.

In 2016 the U likely carries no more burden than any other hospital for initial care of those who can't pay.


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[NorthwestUteFan]

I didn't mind the prisoners at all, and many of them had a good story to tell. The lone exception was there guy who shot up Alta View Hospital. That guy was terrifying, even though he was shackled to the bed, was wearing a face shield, and had two guards inside the room and two armed guards outside.

The bigger challenge for me was in the ER and hearing over the radio as the ER at LD was refusing patients and redirecting them to the U, despite being much closer to LD. It seemed kind of shady at the time, especially since I was a starving college student making less than $7/hr while my friend doing the same job at LD was making $12.50. At least the U hospital was an easy commute from campus.

Note this was 20+ years ago.

[LA Ute]

I didn't mind the prisoners at all, and many of them had a good story to tell. The lone exception was there guy who shot up Alta View Hospital. That guy was terrifying, even though he was shackled to the bed, was wearing a face shield, and had two guards inside the room and two armed guards outside.

The bigger challenge for me was in the ER and hearing over the radio as the ER at LD was refusing patients and redirecting them to the U, despite being much closer to LD. It seemed kind of shady at the time, especially since I was a starving college student making less than $7/hr while my friend doing the same job at LD was making $12.50. At least the U hospital was an easy commute from campus.

Note this was 20+ years ago.

LD would get in a lot of trouble for doing that now, unless they truly had no capacity to take the patients. "Capacity" is defined pretty broadly.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Exactly. Capacity is flexible.

Also IIRC, LD is no longer a Level 1Trauma center. They moved that capability to the IMC ('The Death Star'). It didn't make sense to have the two flagship T-1 centers only a few miles apart, at the North end of the valley. So now you have T-1 at IMC, 5400 S and State, and at the U on the North East bench. Much better distribution of capabilities.

Now it is almost impossible to justify shipping a patient to the U over IMC. Even via heli it is ~8 minutes longer. Via ambulance it would be 20+ minutes.

Here in Seattle we are lucky to have Harborview close by as the T-1. It is the only T-1 for all of Washington, Alaska, Montana, and Idaho. (Harborview is the UW hospital).

[Diehard Ute]

Exactly. Capacity is flexible.

Also IIRC, LD is no longer a Level 1Trauma center. They moved that capability to the IMC ('The Death Star'). It didn't make sense to have the two flagship T-1 centers only a few miles apart, at the North end of the valley. So now you have T-1 at IMC, 5400 S and State, and at the U on the North East bench. Much better distribution of capabilities.

Now it is almost impossible to justify shipping a patient to the U over IMC. Even via heli it is ~8 minutes longer. Via ambulance it would be 20+ minutes.

Here in Seattle we are lucky to have Harborview close by as the T-1. It is the only T-1 for all of Washington, Alaska, Montana, and Idaho. (Harborview is the UW hospital).

Often the U is in Trauma divert or vice versa these days. We probably go equally to both ER's at work, and of course I work exclusively in the city.


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[Solon]

Lincoln University just got rid of its History major. Sorry - "suspended" its History major.

https://www.insidehighered.com/views/2016/07/28/lincoln-universitys-decision-suspend-its-history-major-ignores-web-du-boiss

[tooblue]

Lincoln University just got rid of its History major. Sorry - "suspended" its History major.

https://www.insidehighered.com/views/2016/07/28/lincoln-universitys-decision-suspend-its-history-major-ignores-web-du-boiss

Loosely related:


That 'Useless' Liberal Arts Degree Has Become Tech's Hottest Ticket

http://www.forbes.com/sites/georgeanders/2015/07/29/liberal-arts-degree-tech/#2416e49f5a75

[U-Ute]

An interesting article on the subject of how to grade. It has some cutting edge ideas.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/09/11/opinion/sunday/why-we-should-stop-grading-students-on-a-curve.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur&referer=

[LA Ute]

"I was reported for gender misconduct for calling myself handsome in class (http://thetab.com/us/columbia/2016/10/01/i-was-reported-for-gender-misconduct-for-calling-myself-handsome-in-class-2611)"
http://thetab.com/us/columbia/2016/10/01/i-was-reported-for-gender-misconduct-for-calling-myself-handsome-in-class-2611

[tooblue]

This isn't higher ed, but it still applies:

B.C. teacher fired for having the wrong opinion

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/christie-blatchford-b-c-teacher-fired-for-having-the-wrong-opinion

[LA Ute]

Nicholas Kristof continues to earn respect by being willing to criticize his own ideological kind.

The Dangers of Echo Chambers on Campus

"We liberals are adept at pointing out the hypocrisies of Trump, but we should also address our own hypocrisy in terrain we govern, such as most universities: Too often, we embrace diversity of all kinds except for ideological. Repeated studies have found that about 10 percent of professors in the social sciences or the humanities are Republicans.

"We champion tolerance, except for conservatives and evangelical Christians. We want to be inclusive of people who don’t look like us — so long as they think like us."

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/12/10/opinion/sunday/the-dangers-of-echo-chambers-on-campus.html?smid=fb-share&referer=http://m.facebook.com

[LA Ute]

Interesting.

Volokh: University Of Oregon’s Punishment Of Tax Prof Nancy Shurtz May Signal The End Of Free Speech For All Professors At All Universities.

http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2017/01/volokhuniversity-of-punishment-of-tax-prof-nancy-shurtz-may-signal-the-end-of-free-speech-for-all-pr.html

Solon, what do you think?

[mUUser]

Interesting.

Volokh: University Of Oregon’s Punishment Of Tax Prof Nancy Shurtz May Signal The End Of Free Speech For All Professors At All Universities.

http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2017/01/volokhuniversity-of-punishment-of-tax-prof-nancy-shurtz-may-signal-the-end-of-free-speech-for-all-pr.html

Solon, what do you think?

The article doesn't mention any history of complaints in her 30 years of distinguished employment with the university. If that's the case, I would think a reasonable person would accept her apology and move on. But, neither professors nor lawyers have a stellar reputation for being reasonable.

[Ma'ake]

Don't know the context of this complaint, but the blackface and curly headed wig was in pretty bad taste, regardless of intent. I don't understand why it was important that somebody at the party indicate they were offended. How many people actually do that? It's a party. Bail out if you're offended. I'm not even faculty, and I feel an obligation to steer clear of any controversial ethnic or religious stuff. I've only heard a handful of anti-Mormon remarks over 18 years, and I shook my head.

I thought the Stanford Band mocking BYU by portraying themselves as polygamists with three wives for every man was in bad taste, too.

I wonder if we're on the cusp of a very strong anti-PC movement, nationally. Bring back the "real" America kind of thing. One of my colleagues, a research associate who happens to be Jewish, has been interviewing for jobs in Canada.

"We Jews encounter serious resentment every 50 years or so. With the election, it's clear there's a lot of anger, people looking for scapegoats. Jews know we're not really white, just like Mormons should know that when push comes to shove, they're not really Christian, and with the Breitbart connection now in the White House, I'm not waiting for things to actually unravel. They're already crazy enough for me. My parents always made us watch anything they found about the Holocaust. 'Don't ever let this happen again'. For Jews, it's fight, or flight, or hunker down. The hunker down didn't work in Europe 70 years ago. I'm not sticking around".

Hyper-sensitive liberal? Canary in the coalmine?

She did say she felt fairly protected in Utah, and research jobs aren't exactly easy to get. We'll see what happens, but her Skymiles card is getting a workout.

[Diehard Ute]

http://www.sltrib.com/lifestyle/faith/4871773-155/honor-code-dispute-could-move-air

BYU may lose their ROTC detachment....over coffee at a Colonel's house.


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[sancho]

http://www.sltrib.com/lifestyle/faith/4871773-155/honor-code-dispute-could-move-air

BYU may lose their ROTC detachment....over coffee at a Colonel's house.


BYU continues its unbreakable record streak of crazy.

[U-Ute]

BYU continues its unbreakable record streak of crazy.


They're just LaVell-ing the score now.

[LA Ute]

Interesting piece.


How Not to Address Liberal Bias in Academia (https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-02-22/how-not-to-address-liberal-bias-in-academia)

[LA Ute]

Compelling piece by Stanford's provost.

The threat from within

http://news.stanford.edu/2017/02/21/the-threat-from-within/


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[LA Ute]

Well, this is embarrassing.

Hoax Science Paper Says Penis Is A Social Construct That Worsens Climate Change (http://www.acsh.org/news/2017/05/19/hoax-science-paper-says-penis-social-construct-worsens-climate-change-11302)

[LA Ute]

Yelping at Yale

https://www.wsj.com/articles/yelping-at-yale-1494876196?mod=e2fb&mg=id-wsj

[tooblue]

Jordan Peterson, hero of the anti-PC crowd, just keeps winning

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/chris-selley-jordan-peterson-hero-of-the-anti-pc-crowd-just-keeps-winning


It wasn’t long ago that University of Toronto psychology professor Jordan Peterson’s future seemed somewhat in doubt. He rose to prominence — many would say notoriety — last autumn with his public refusal to use transgender and non-binary students’ pronouns of choice: “xe,” “zir” and “they,” for example. It was part of a multi-pronged YouTube campaign against political correctness and “compelled speech,” and against federal legislation that would make gender expression and gender identity prohibited grounds for discrimination.

[LA Ute]

Check out our new video! "Who Killed the Liberal Arts?"

What in the world happened to the liberal arts? A degree in the humanities used to transmit the knowledge and wisdom imbued in the works of great Western artists, writers, musicians and thinkers like Shakespeare and Mozart. But today, that same degree stresses Western racism, sexism, imperialism, and other ills and sins that reinforce a sense of victimhood and narcissism. So, what happened? Heather Mac Donald of the Manhattan Institute explains.

https://www.facebook.com/prageru/videos/959394030770120/

[LA Ute]

Thoughtful, balanced piece by Frank Bruni:

These Campus Inquisitions Must Stop

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/06/03/opinion/sunday/bruni-campus-inquisitions-evergreen-state.html?_r=1&referer=https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/

[Two Utes]

Thoughtful, balanced piece by Frank Bruni:

These Campus Inquisitions Must Stop

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/06/03/opinion/sunday/bruni-campus-inquisitions-evergreen-state.html?_r=1&referer=https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/

Good article.

[mUUser]

Forget the reason she was fired.....One year out of college with only a BS and no experience in the field, teaching a college level class at a four year university. Is this common at BYUI?



http://www.ksl.com/?sid=45078587&nid=148&title=instructor-says-byu-idaho-fired-her-for-a-facebook-post

[LA Ute]

I just know this is the right job for someone out there on this board. The lucky person hired will start at a salary of between $46,000.00 – $57,000.00. Plus you get to work at a prestigious Big 10 school.

*****

BIAS INCIDENT PREVENTION AND RESPONSE COORDINATOR

http://careers.umich.edu/job_detail/145173/bias_incident_prevention_and_response_coordinator

Responsibilities

Coordinates Bias Incident Response Efforts (40%)• Receives campus reports of bias incidents and reviews them with designated campus and community partners for investigation and response.• Assists students impacted or targeted by bias incidents with navigating community impacts and effects.• Creates and develops a diverse team of Student Life and campus partners to provide direct support to targets of bias who have reached out to the Dean of Students Office for assistance.• Serves as a process advocate through assisting students in the development of an understanding and appropriate navigation of the bias incident response process.• Coordinates the assignment of bias incidents for response and follow up to other team members as indicated.• Coordinates appropriate and effective intervention and communication between multiple campus offices including staff members in the academic units, DEI leads involved in the response to bias incidents impacting students on and off campus, and the provision of support to individuals and groups targeted by bias behaviors.• Maintains strong working relationships with Multi Ethnic Student Affairs (MESA), the Trotter Multicultural Center, the Office for Institutional Equity, the Office of Student Conflict Resolution, the Office of the General Counsel, University of Michigan Police Department, University Housing, Residence Education, Housing Security and other units assisting in the response to and management of bias incidents.• Assists in providing on-going training for the team and other campus partners.• Creates semester and annual reports documenting the work of the Bias Response Team.• Responds to requests for information about the Bias Response Team.• Assists the Assistant Dean of Students on the coordination of bi-monthly Bias Response Team meetings; prepares minutes, follows up with team members regarding assignments, and provides summative information on response team members’ efforts to particular incidents.

Coordinates Bias Prevention Efforts and Expect Respect Initiatives (25%)• Implements annual initiatives to publicize campus Expect Respect program and maintain Expect Respect website.• Distributes annual Expect Respect letter to faculty, staff, and students.• Collaborates with the Office of New Student Programs to ensure annual Expect Respect messaging begins in orientation programs.• Collaborates with schools/colleges to ensure consistent messaging.• Supervises student Expect Respect program assistant(s).• Partners with other campus and divisional social justice initiatives.• Enacts cultural appropriation prevention initiatives.• Develops and maintains strong working relationships with identity-based student organizations.

[tooblue]

SMU changes policy saying displays can be ‘triggering, harmful’

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/08/03/911-tribute-flap-smu-changes-policy-saying-displays-can-be-triggering-harmful/?hpid=hp_hp-morning-mix_mm-smu%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.d0a1ef1cd161

[Brian]

Forget the reason she was fired.....One year out of college with only a BS and no experience in the field, teaching a college level class at a four year university. Is this common at BYUI?



http://www.ksl.com/?sid=45078587&nid=148&title=instructor-says-byu-idaho-fired-her-for-a-facebook-post

I had a friend who worked at the BYUI who corroborated a lot of what I already thought.
My daughter had several friend from high school who went there, and ditto.

BYUI is a glorified high school. So, on one hand it doesn't really surprise me.

On the other hand, academic positions are so hard to find, I would think that that a lot of momon MS/MA/PhDs would be chomping at the bit to get a gig at the BYUI if they can't get one at the BYUP.

Put university in quotes, and I think it will all make sense.

[LA Ute]

Why Men Are the New College MinorityMales are enrolling in higher education at alarmingly low rates, and some colleges are working hard to reverse the trend.

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2017/08/why-men-are-the-new-college-minority/536103/

[LA Ute]

Nobody but poor ol' LA Ute posts in this thread anymore. It's gotten to the point that he refers to himself in the third person.

Anyway, this is a well-written account of what he thinks is a serious problem:

Safe spaces and ‘ze’ badges: My bewildering year at a US university

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/08/safe-spaces-and-ze-badges-my-bewildering-year-at-a-us-university/

[UTEopia]

I'll bite. At first blush, I find the safe place stuff silly. However, I think we all ask for safe places in one way or another. I get really tired of hearing one guy who sits a row behind me at the football game say fuck in almost every sentence. After a a few minutes I have had enough and ask him to knock it off. In all fairness, I feel free to tell the guy who thinks he is the second coming of Vince Lombardi to get down on the sidelines and start calling in the plays and making the correct substitutions. I also tire of the assholes across the isle who make crude statements to BYU fans every time we play them and feel free to tell them that if they continue I will have the ushers remove them. I'm pretty sure I would do the same thing if they were making racist statements or denigrating jews. It's fine to make derogatory statements about ASU. ASU fans are the worst. So, I guess I have things that I don't want to hear.

[LA Ute]

I would draw a distinction between speech that is generally considered offensive by just about any measure, on the one hand; and on the other, ideas or opinions that may be offensive to those who disagree.

[LA Ute]

Interesting piece.

$330,000 in financial aid bought me a slot in the American meritocracy. Now I see its flaws.

https://www.vox.com/first-person/2017/7/20/15999718/financial-aid-education-meritocracy-income-economic-inequality

[tooblue]

Facing poverty, academics turn to sex work and sleeping in cars

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/sep/28/adjunct-professors-homeless-sex-work-academia-poverty

[Rocker Ute]

Facing poverty, academics turn to sex work and sleeping in cars

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/sep/28/adjunct-professors-homeless-sex-work-academia-poverty

Hang in there buddy.

[Ma'ake]

Interesting piece.

$330,000 in financial aid bought me a slot in the American meritocracy. Now I see its flaws.

https://www.vox.com/first-person/2017/7/20/15999718/financial-aid-education-meritocracy-income-economic-inequality

This article is a good tandem with the David Brooks column about the Post WWII Protestant order being replaced by the likes of Abbie Hoffman with the 60s/70s Meritocracy, which is now being attacked by Trump (and many others) who sow distrust in education and the educated.

The salary structure where I work is very bottom line oriented. We (essentially) have a star system, where the best, brightest and most productive are well taken care of, and salaries lag for everyone else (especially after the Great Recession). I don't think it's an intentional policy - funding for academic research is brutally constrained and under threat - but the mantra is: "You never have perfect equity. You move in that direction over time, and if need be, you protect against stars leaving with pay adjustments".

With all of our salary information as public knowledge, this presents tensions within my team. "You may be very smart, and work hard, and went to college. Good for you, but I have kids, too."

My team is a microcosm of America, today. Even though we're within an academic institution, among this small sub-culture of IT folks who don't have / don't care for academic curiosity and pursuit, there is a populist disregard for education and distrust of the educated, based on the human instinct to retreat into self-interest when economic storm clouds are on the horizon.

[tooblue]

This article is a good tandem with the David Brooks column about the Post WWII Protestant order being replaced by the likes of Abbie Hoffman with the 60s/70s Meritocracy, which is now being attacked by Trump (and many others) who sow distrust in education and the educated.

The salary structure where I work is very bottom line oriented. We (essentially) have a star system, where the best, brightest and most productive are well taken care of, and salaries lag for everyone else (especially after the Great Recession). I don't think it's an intentional policy - funding for academic research is brutally constrained and under threat - but the mantra is: "You never have perfect equity. You move in that direction over time, and if need be, you protect against stars leaving with pay adjustments".

With all of our salary information as public knowledge, this presents tensions within my team. "You may be very smart, and work hard, and went to college. Good for you, but I have kids, too."

My team is a microcosm of America, today. Even though we're within an academic institution, among this small sub-culture of IT folks who don't have / don't care for academic curiosity and pursuit, there is a populist disregard for education and distrust of the educated, based on the human instinct to retreat into self-interest when economic storm clouds are on the horizon.

What you describe, if I am correctly understanding you, is a good description of our IT department. They are willfully obtuse and often indifferent about what faculty does, and how their policies and the inherent inefficiencies that accompany them affect the learning environment, largely to the detriment of students. Which is insanity, when you consider their jobs, along with my own, exists only and exclusively because the students exist. It's unfathomable how often they must be reminded they exist to serve the students.

I wish there was a star system, where the best, brightest and most productive are well taken care of among faculty. I am better at what I do than 80 percent of my colleagues. It might sound boastful, but I don't care. There are far too many faculty who do nothing to upgrade their knowledge and skills, and mostly just survive year to year. But that star system will never happen. We are in a contract year. Our union has already put us in a strike position with untenable demands. If we go on strike it will be a long one.

The bright side is, at least I am 'tenured' in a sense and not suffering as adjuncts in the US do. Actually, that is one of the reasons for the strike. To find a way to better protect our partial load and part-time faculty. The education system here has slowly been moving towards becoming more similar to the US, at least in demanding greater accreditation, for less pay and no job security. Education in North America is broken in many many ways.

[tooblue]

Hang in there buddy.

I more concerned about Solon. To be honest, though, he's got the looks and the Je ne sais quoi necessary to find himself a couple of sugar mommas. I'm too bald, pudgy and disagreeable for such things.

[NorthwestUteFan]

I more concerned about Solon. To be honest, though, he's got the looks and the Je ne sais quoi necessary to find himself a couple of sugar mommas. I'm too bald, pudgy and disagreeable for such things.That's ok, I always figured you more as a power bottom.

[tooblue]

That's ok, I always figured you more as a power bottom.

No idea what you are referencing, and their ain't no way I am googling it.

[Applejack]

Facing poverty, academics turn to sex work and sleeping in cars

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/sep/28/adjunct-professors-homeless-sex-work-academia-poverty


Hang in there buddy.

No shame here, bro. Love is love. Do whatcha gotta do. Peace.

[tooblue]

No shame here, bro. Love is love. Do whatcha gotta do. Peace.

Agree Smackjack, but you may have to have a talk with your Ute brethren about their, uhm, lack of enlightenment.

[tooblue]

Professors Behaving Badly:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/30/opinion/sunday/adjunct-professors-politics.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region&region=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region

[LA Ute]

Professors Behaving Badly:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/30/opinion/sunday/adjunct-professors-politics.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region&region=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region

I was once an adjunct professor of nursing at USC. (Teaching a health law course to undergrads.) I repressed the urge to make idiotic political outbursts, however.

[LA Ute]

How the Republicans' Tax Plan Threatens Higher Ed

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-11-07/how-the-republicans-tax-plan-threatens-higher-ed

[UTEopia]

How the Republicans' Tax Plan Threatens Higher Ed

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-11-07/how-the-republicans-tax-plan-threatens-higher-ed

Thought provoking and very interesting read. That is what I have believed about the LDS subsidizing of BYU. The only table in the church that every "worthy" member cannot sit at.

[Applejack]

Thought provoking and very interesting read. That is what I have believed about the LDS subsidizing of BYU. The only table in the church that every "worthy" member cannot sit at.

Haha. I get the hate for byu (they deserved to be hated), but the every-worthy-member crowd has a few other tables that are off limits, especially the female lds crowd.

[sancho]

Haha. I get the hate for byu (they deserved to be hated), but the every-worthy-member crowd has a few other tables that are off limits, especially the female lds crowd.

Okay, but this is the only such table with a quantifiable financial benefit. Is that right?

[LA Ute]

Okay, but this is the only such table with a quantifiable financial benefit. Is that right?

It’s a huge subsidy.

[Rocker Ute]

I think in the next decade you’ll see a big shift academically with BYU. Keep in mind that BYU-I was lead by Bednar and the large expansion of BYU Pathways.

BYU is a tough school to get in now, but much of that has come in the last two decades. I had no issue being accepted 22 years ago (for the record I never seriously considered it - I was hellbent on going to Utah and staying instate, my high school counselor insisted I apply to three schools so I did Utah, Westminster and BYU - laughing about the BYU notion). I was a pretty good student, but not great. Now kids with 4.0s good ACT scores and extracurricular activities up the wazzoo are getting turned down.

My point being, BYU wasn’t that great not too long ago, and was an outright embarrassment to go to in my dad’s era. I think the quality of the BYU satellites will pick up and two decades from now BYU-I will be a respectable place to attend.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Applejack]

Okay, but this is the only such table with a quantifiable financial benefit. Is that right?

The only quantifiable financial benefit to being LDS?

[sancho]

The only quantifiable financial benefit to being LDS?

No, the welfare system is a quantifiable financial benefit to being LDS. I hope I never lose the job I have right now, but if I do, I know the Church will help me out for a while.

[Applejack]

No, the welfare system is a quantifiable financial benefit to being LDS. I hope I never lose the job I have right now, but if I do, I know the Church will help me out for a while.

This seems to also not be a all-worthy-members table, for obvious reasons. Perhaps BYU is not an outlier; perhaps most of the tables are restricted to some constituency (priesthood-men; welfare-poor; byu-uninformed).

[sancho]

This seems to also not be a all-worthy-members table, for obvious reasons.

I'm not sure what the obvious reasons are. I think all members of the church live with the security of a welfare safety net. It's like insurance, and everyone sits that that table.

Anyway, in the non-financial side, for some nonsensical reason, you can't sit at the temple worker table if you have facial hair. Just dumb.

[LA Ute]

Even hard-core conservative thinker George Will doesn't like the tax on endowments:


The GOP Tax Bill’s Disconcerting Raid on University Endowments



A little-noticed provision would tax America’s elite universities to help fund the federal government’s operations. There’s nothing conservative about that.


Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/453545/university-endowments-tax-terrible-idea?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=NR%20Daily%20Monday%20through%20Frida y%202017-11-09&utm_term=NR5PM%20Actives

[mUUser]

.........for some nonsensical reason, you can't sit at the temple worker table if you have facial hair. Just dumb.


Here's another weird one. A woman with with school aged children (and younger), cannot serve in the temple, but, a man can. :confused:

[UTEopia]

Anyway, in the non-financial side, for some nonsensical reason, you can't sit at the temple worker table if you have facial hair. Just dumb.

Yes, I am a temple worker and that is a weird rule.

[UTEopia]

Here's another weird one. A woman with with school aged children (and younger), cannot serve in the temple, but, a man can. :confused:

I am a temple worker and while I could be wrong, I think that has changed in the recent past. Just as the rule on participating in the MoTab was changed.

[sancho]

Even hard-core conservative thinker George Will doesn't like the tax on endowments:


The GOP Tax Bill’s Disconcerting Raid on University Endowments





Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/453545/university-endowments-tax-terrible-idea?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=NR%20Daily%20Monday%20through%20Frida y%202017-11-09&utm_term=NR5PM%20Actives

Way to go, Cards!

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/10/opinion/ivy-league-offshore-tax-stanford.html?smid=tw-nytopinion&smtyp=cur


According to the Stanford economist Raj Chetty, the top 38 private colleges today enroll more students from the top 1 percent of the nation’s income spectrum than from the bottom 60 percent (http://www.equality-of-opportunity.org/assets/documents/coll_mrc_paper.pdf).

[LA Ute]

I am a temple worker and while I could be wrong, I think that has changed in the recent past. Just as the rule on participating in the MoTab was changed.

It was President Hinckley who said that Temple workers must meet full-time missionary hair and grooming standards. The Los Angeles Temple president, a few years ago, decided that even members who are assisting in youth baptisms must meet those standards. As a result, our 75 year old Bishop, who had a mustache, could not go into the font and officiate in that ordinance. Neither could I, for the same reason. It was pretty ridiculous. I checked with my general authority friend who was at the time over the temple department and he said there was no such church wide rule. That temple President was a former Marine, so I wrote that incident off to his individual interpretation.

[sancho]

President Hinckley said that Temple workers must meet full-time missionary hair and grooming standards. The Los Angeles Temple president, a few years ago, decided that even members who are assisting in youth baptisms must meet those standards. As a result, our 75 year old Bishop, who had a mustache, could not go interesting the font and officiate in that ordinance. Neither could I, for the same reason. It was pretty ridiculous. I checked with my general authority friend who was at the time over the temple department and he said there was no such church wide rule. That temple President was a former Marine, so I wrote that incident off to his individual interpretation.

Just dumb.

[LA Ute]

These Universities Benefit From an Offshore Tax Loophole


A New York Times report on Wednesday describes how some universities use “blocker corporations” — a loophole that effectively uses a middleman based in a low- or no-tax destination, like the Cayman Islands — to avoid paying taxes on the income....

“They’re not cheating. They’re not hiding money or disguising money,” Samuel Brunson, a law professor at Loyola University Chicago, told the Times. “But they’re adding money to a system that allows people, if they want to hide their money, to do it.”

http://www.chronicle.com/article/These-Universities-Benefit/241714?cid=db&elqTrackId=d54912c4e7bd45f78e41f11ee501aaf6&elq=847059a8d2bd4190a29f39ef751c5138&elqaid=16529&elqat=1&elqCampaignId=7158

Seems like it’s not so much “the Rich“ who benefit from our tax system, but the investor class.

[Applejack]

These Universities Benefit From an Offshore Tax Loophole



http://www.chronicle.com/article/These-Universities-Benefit/241714?cid=db&elqTrackId=d54912c4e7bd45f78e41f11ee501aaf6&elq=847059a8d2bd4190a29f39ef751c5138&elqaid=16529&elqat=1&elqCampaignId=7158

Seems like it’s not so much “the Rich“ who benefit from our tax system, but the investor class.

Samuel Brunson (the professor quoted in the article you posted) is LDS!

[LA Ute]

Samuel Brunson (the professor quoted in the article you posted) is LDS!

Well, why isn’t he teaching at BYU, like every faithful LDS academic should? There must be something wrong with him.

[Diehard Ute]

Samuel Brunson (the professor quoted in the article you posted) is LDS!

Is there some master list you guys keep?

I know every woman on Facebook and Twitter has that in their profile, but how do you know about everyone else?

;)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Applejack]

Is there some master list you guys keep?

I know every woman on Facebook and Twitter has that in their profile, but how do you know about everyone else?

;)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My brain is like a steel trap for mormon trivia. For example, did you know that Ryan Gosling, star of the Notebook, is LDS? IT'S TRUE!

[Solon]

So, the Gap Year . . .

I'm encountering more and more young people who take a gap year after college but before graduate/professional school, or full-time employment.

(There are plenty of folks who take a gap year after high school, but I'm in Utah and lots of kids go on missions with similar effect.)

On the one hand, I like the idea of people trying different things before signing up for the rest of their lives.
On the other hand, I've seen several recent college grads slip back and become less committed and less competitive when they try to take the LSAT or something. Also, a Gap Year sometimes slides into two or three Gap Years.

Thoughts in favor or against?

[sancho]

Thoughts in favor or against?

I guess it depends. What is the person going to do during the gap year? Unless there is a concrete plan that is truly meaningful, I vote no. It has to be something enriching and at least partially selfless.

I went right from college to grad school, and I'm glad I did. As a returned missionary, I'm already old compared to my peers.

[mUUser]

So the gap year ....
Thoughts in favor or against?

Great topic!!.......

Even though Sancho claimed Sitake was an "upgrade" over Bronco, thereby losing all credibility in every topic, ever......it's hard to disagree with anything he's said here. :)

Having said that, it would be impossible to answer without the specific circumstance of every person who's considering it. For example, my daughter graduates this semester after five years, then goes on to a four year graduate program. In her circumstance, it would have to be an unbelievably compelling reason to take a gap year(s) as she'll be 27 by the time she hits the work force anyway.

OTOH, in my wife's case, she worked three years between her undergrad and MBA (maybe you aren't thinking FT employment as the definition of "gap year"?) which made sense because it was basically a requirement to get into the program. She was 28 when she hit the work force for real.

My hope is all my kids do graduate work, so a "gap year" would have to be pretty compelling. I think a mission and FT employment are the exceptions. Because of my core beliefs I'm supportive of a mission under nearly any circumstance. However, a year hitchhiking in Europe or doing work unrelated to your future might be difficult to swallow. As a parent, I only hope I can influence them to do the right thing for them......and that could be wildly different from kid to kid.

[mUUser]

Funny enough, just today, I asked my 20 y/o sophomore how things were going? how were her grades this semester? Still thinking law school? etc..... and she replies she's "thinking about taking a gap year or two" after she graduates -- perhaps working for a non-profit in Europe. She is a steroptype millennial, and given the timing of this thread, made me chuckle. :rofl:

[tooblue]

University of Wisconsin students protest plan to drop slew of liberal arts majors

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2018/03/22/university-of-wisconsin-students-protest-plan-to-drop-slew-of-liberal-arts-majors/?utm_term=.e7603cff6f2b (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2018/03/22/university-of-wisconsin-students-protest-plan-to-drop-slew-of-liberal-arts-majors/?utm_term=.e7603cff6f2b)

[Sullyute]

University of Wisconsin students protest plan to drop slew of liberal arts majors

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2018/03/22/university-of-wisconsin-students-protest-plan-to-drop-slew-of-liberal-arts-majors/?utm_term=.e7603cff6f2b (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2018/03/22/university-of-wisconsin-students-protest-plan-to-drop-slew-of-liberal-arts-majors/?utm_term=.e7603cff6f2b)

Other than philosophy and political science, I don’t have a problem with dropping those majors. Not a lot of need for German and French majors these days.

[sancho]

Other than philosophy and political science, I don’t have a problem with dropping those majors. Not a lot of need for German and French majors these days.

Why are those two exempt? I'd rather work with a language major than a philosophy/poly sci major any day.

[Sullyute]

Why are those two exempt? I'd rather work with a language major than a philosophy/poly sci major any day.

The rest of those degrees lead to liberalism. At least a poly sci major has a chance to be a conservative.

[Solon]

Why are those two exempt? I'd rather work with a language major than a philosophy/poly sci major any day.


The rest of those degrees lead to liberalism. At least a poly sci major has a chance to be a conservative.

I hope you guys are kidding.

I don't mind satellite campuses like this one focusing on their regional needs.
Not every school needs to offer every major. UW students will survive.

One thing, however, that administrators often overlook is that courses like History and Spanish are much less expensive to offer than some other kinds of courses.
There's no specialized equipment, no labs, no expensive software. All you really need is just a chalkboard and some desks. Plus, the profs. make less money overall.

[tooblue]

I hope you guys are kidding.

I don't mind satellite campuses like this one focusing on their regional needs.
Not every school needs to offer every major. UW students will survive.

One thing, however, that administrators often overlook is that courses like History and Spanish are much less expensive to offer than some other kinds of courses.
There's no specialized equipment, no labs, no expensive software. All you really need is just a chalkboard and some desks. Plus, the profs. make less money overall.

One thing missing in all this is a more comprehensive student perspective. Per the linked article, there is a vocal group railing against these changes. We don't know if they are minority or majority, but in my experience I suspect they are a vocal minority.

Tomorrow at my institution's Open House, I will fulfill my twice yearly responsibilities to promote and recruit for the programs I teach in and administrate. Many students and parents will attend to ask important questions, as they prepare to make their final choices about which program to enrol in, or whether or not my school is the right one for them.

Having participated in Open Houses for close to sixteen years, and having access to statistics concerning attendees, between sixty and seventy percent will be students who will be graduating high school this spring. Ten years ago that number was higher (eighty to ninety percent). Of the thirty to forty percent who will also attend are mature students: second career, current dissastified university students, those that took a gap year to work etc. Those numbers could very well be more like 50/50, as it has been trending that way for a while.

Most of the students will be domestic (our international enrolment is through the roof: thank you for voting Donald Trump into office—he does our recruiting for us!). Of the 30 - 40% who are one, two or many years removed from high school, and who are at the Open House to inquire about my technology focused programs, all of them will be there because they want hard skills that will help them find gainful employment in the job market. We boast an 85 - 90% employment rate for graduates. They have been to university, heard about the irrelevance of what is taught, or have worked in low-paying jobs and are disillusioned.

Of the 60 - 70% that are there to plan their next step after high school, most will avoid inquiring about those same tech heavy programs I teach in, because they perceive them to be too challenging. In two, or three years, they end up in my program anyways, because there are not many jobs for people with a diplomas in video production and absolutely no jobs for the photography graduates, and the Graphic Designers (I teach in that program as well) quickly hit their salary ceiling unless they dramatically upgrade their coding/programming skills.

Basically, what I am saying is politicians and administrators are an easy target, but it is the market and pace of technology more than anything that is determining what is happening.

The world is changed. Automation is here, AI is proliferating, and young people will either learn to make the machines work for them, or they won't work—hence, a $15 minimum wage, or talk of a living wage for citizens:

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/commentary/2016/05/27/the-promise-of-the-living-wage-movement.html

McDonalds is losing workers, in part because of a $15 minimum wage, but also because workers find the job too hard ...

McDonald's workers quitting in droves over 'complicated' technology, new menu items:

http://business.financialpost.com/news/retail-marketing/mcdonalds-workers-quitting-in-droves-over-complicated-technology-new-menu-items

Thanks To 'Fight For $15' Minimum Wage, McDonald's Unveils Job-Replacing Self-Service Kiosks Nationwide:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2016/11/29/thanks-to-fight-for-15-minimum-wage-mcdonalds-unveils-job-replacing-self-service-kiosks-nationwide/#717a803e4fbc

Is stem education the answer—not necessarily. The education system is ripe for major upheaval. It will be interesting to see what happens over the next five years.

[LA Ute]

"One of the benefits of having been right-of-center in college was that my political and philosophical views were constantly challenged. There was no “safe space” — and I was better for it. I often felt that I received a better education than many of my peers precisely because I was not able to hold unchallenged assumptions or adopt unquestioned premises."

Analysis: TRUE. For me, anyway.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/03/22/infants-in-college/?utm_term=.63e865b81c3e