PDA

View Full Version : The World War II Thread



LA Ute
05-12-2013, 12:39 PM
I don't think we have a WWII thread. Now and then the history buffs among us see something worth sharing; this will be a place for that. (Summon USS Utah!). Here's a start:

"Days after Hitler’s suicide a group of American soldiers, French prisoners, and, yes, German soldiers defended an Austrian castle against an SS division—the only time Germans and Allies fought together in World War II. Andrew Roberts on a story so wild that it has to be made into a movie.

"The most extraordinary things about this truly incredible tale of World War II are that it hasn’t been told before in English, and that it hasn’t already been made into a blockbuster Hollywood movie. Here are the basic facts: on 5 May 1945—five days after Hitler’s suicide—three Sherman tanks from the 23rd Tank Battalion of the U.S. 12th Armored Division under the command of Capt. John C. ‘Jack’ Lee Jr., liberated an Austrian castle called Schloss Itter in the Tyrol, a special prison that housed various French VIPs, including the ex-prime ministers Paul Reynaud and Eduard Daladier and former commanders-in-chief Generals Maxime Weygand and Paul Gamelin, amongst several others. Yet when the units of the veteran 17th Waffen-SS Panzer Grenadier Division arrived to recapture the castle and execute the prisoners, Lee’s beleaguered and outnumbered men were joined by anti-Nazi German soldiers of the Wehrmacht, as well as some of the extremely feisty wives and girlfriends of the (needless-to-say hitherto bickering) French VIPs, and together they fought off some of the best crack troops of the Third Reich. Steven Spielberg, how did you miss this story?"

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/05/12/world-war-ii-s-strangest-battle-when-americans-and-germans-fought-together.html

USS Utah
05-16-2013, 01:38 PM
On May 13, 1943, the Axis forces in Tunisia surrendered to the allies, thus ending the Desert War in North Africa. Victory in North Africa set the stage for upcoming campaigns in Italy.

Link:

http://flattopshistorywarpolitics.yuku.com/topic/2714/master/1/?page=1#.UZU0cEp9OE4

USS Utah
05-16-2013, 01:57 PM
In a short campaign in May 1943 the US Army sought to retake the island of Attu.

Link:

http://flattopshistorywarpolitics.yuku.com/topic/2725?page=1#.UZU5F0p9OE4

LA Ute
05-28-2013, 10:47 AM
I have never seen the movie "Cabaret," but today ran into this clip. It's a fine bit of movie making. You need to watch until the end.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EE_BoCw9zk

USS Utah
07-12-2013, 12:53 PM
On July 5, 1943, the Germans launched Operation Citadel on the Russian Front; the operation was designed to capture the Kursk salient, a bulge in the front lines. The Soviets had been tipped off to the German plan and launched effective counter-moves in what would become the biggest tank battle in history. Just five days into the battle, and thousands of miles away in the Mediterranean Sea, the Americans and British landed troops on the island of Sicily to open the Italian Campaign.

http://flattopshistorywarpolitics.yuku.com/topic/2763/KurskSicily-Month#.UeBON6zJqE4

USS Utah
07-28-2013, 01:59 PM
The bombing raids on Hamburg during the last week of July 1943 were part of Operation Gomorrah, as it was known to the Royal and United States Army Air Forces. The raid on the night of July 27-28 resulted in a firestorm, turning it into one of the most devastating of the war.

Link:

http://flattopshistorywarpolitics.yuku.com/topic/2776/Operation-Gomorrah-The-Night-Hamburg-Died#.UfV3nqzJqE4

USS Utah
08-01-2013, 09:45 PM
Operation Tidal Wave, the low level raid on Ploesti.

http://flattopshistorywarpolitics.yuku.com/topic/2783/master/1/?page=1#.UfsqhazJqE4

LA Ute
08-01-2013, 09:46 PM
Operation Tidal Wave, the low level raid on Ploesti.

http://flattopshistorywarpolitics.yuku.com/topic/2783/master/1/?page=1#.UfsqhazJqE4

Wasn't that the one "Utah Man" was in?

USS Utah
08-01-2013, 10:13 PM
Wasn't that the one "Utah Man" was in?

Yes, and a link to "Wing and a Prayer" is in the last post in that thread.

Damage U
08-11-2013, 05:39 PM
PBS has been showing a series called Nazi Mega Weapons. One show was about the U-boat program and the other one I've seen was about their missle program. Both were very intersting and made me think we were very lucky to win the war. What I got out of the one about the Nazi missle program was that if their missle program had not been set back 6 months because of various allied attacks and Hitlers "genius", D-day would not have been a possibility for the allied forces and London would have been turn to dust.

USS Utah
08-15-2013, 12:21 PM
August 15, 1943.

South Pacific Forces leapfrog over Kolombangara to land on Vella Lavella.

http://flattopshistorywarpolitics.yuku.com/topic/2791#.Ug0ZxqzJqE4

Fighting was continuing on New Georgia as part of a campaign that began on June 20, 1943. Munda fell on August 5.

http://flattopshistorywarpolitics.yuku.com/topic/2784/New-Georgia-Month#.Ug0aA6zJqE4

GarthUte
08-15-2013, 12:38 PM
Dangit, I'm kicking myself because I failed to post this yesterday, but Aug. 14, 1945 was the most significant day of the war. That was the day WWII ended.

USS Utah
09-04-2013, 12:38 AM
September 3, 1943.

British forces cross the strait of Messina to land on the toe of the Italian boot in Operation Baytown.

USS Utah
09-13-2013, 11:39 AM
On September 9, 1943, the U.S. Fifth Army launched Operation Avalanche by landing at Salerno, at the same time British forces landed at Taranto in Operation Slapstick. The British faced little resistance, while the German counterattack at Salerno came close to throwing the Americans back into the sea.

Link:

http://flattopshistorywarpolitics.yuku.com/topic/2824/master/1/?page=1#.UjNJfn8o9oM

USS Utah
10-06-2013, 01:25 PM
On the 6th October the Japanese sent a significant force in to pick up their troops from the island of Vella Lavella. The U.S. Navy warned of the move by patrol planes but had limited forces to respond with – two groups of three destroyers, one of which was travelling from some distance away. The first group consisted of the USS Chevalier, USS O’Bannon and USS Selfridge.

Link:

http://flattopshistorywarpolitics.yuku.com/topic/2866#.UlG4VlM0_kY

USS Utah
11-01-2013, 12:41 PM
South Pacific forces under Admiral William F. Halsey landed on the island of Bougainville on November 1, 1943, beginning Operation Cherry Blossom.

Link:

http://flattopshistorywarpolitics.yuku.com/topic/2897/BougainvilleGilberts-Month#.UnP1vVOp-Bk

USS Utah
11-02-2013, 12:09 PM
The Battle of Empress Augusta Bay -- USAAF Strikes Rabual

http://flattopshistorywarpolitics.yuku.com/reply/21807/BougainvilleGilberts-Month#reply-21807

tooblue
11-04-2013, 02:26 PM
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2013/11/04/thomas-harding-10-minutes-alone-with-the-butcher-of-auschwitz/

Thomas Harding: 10 minutes alone with the butcher of Auschwitz

LA Ute
11-04-2013, 02:37 PM
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2013/11/04/thomas-harding-10-minutes-alone-with-the-butcher-of-auschwitz/

Thomas Harding: 10 minutes alone with the butcher of Auschwitz

Wow.

USS Utah
11-11-2013, 12:09 PM
Saratoga and Princeton hit Rabaul on November 5, 1943, and six days later it was the turn of Essex, Bunker Hill and Independence.

Link:

http://flattopshistorywarpolitics.yuku.com/reply/21828/BougainvilleGilberts-Month#reply-21828

USS Utah
11-20-2013, 11:49 AM
Tarawa, Day One

http://flattopshistorywarpolitics.yuku.com/sreply/21998/BougainvilleGilberts-Month

USS Utah
11-21-2013, 11:37 AM
Tarawa, Day Two

http://flattopshistorywarpolitics.yuku.com/sreply/22005/BougainvilleGilberts-Month

USS Utah
11-22-2013, 11:43 AM
Tarawa, Day Three

http://flattopshistorywarpolitics.yuku.com/sreply/22012/BougainvilleGilberts-Month

USS Utah
11-23-2013, 12:29 PM
Tarawa Secured, Makin Taken, Liscome Bay Lost.

http://flattopshistorywarpolitics.yuku.com/reply/22027/BougainvilleGilberts-Month#reply-22027

USS Utah
12-02-2013, 11:10 AM
"Little Pearl Harbor": The German Air Raid on Bari Harbor.

http://flattopshistorywarpolitics.yuku.com/topic/2927/master/1/?page=1#.UpzLHSep-Bk

USS Utah
12-03-2013, 11:45 AM
The Battle of Cape St. George.

http://flattopshistorywarpolitics.yuku.com/topic/2929?page=1#.Up4lvyep-Bk

USS Utah
12-04-2013, 12:24 PM
The Fast Carriers Strike Kwajalein.

http://flattopshistorywarpolitics.yuku.com/topic/2932#.Up9-0Sep-Bk

USS Utah
12-19-2013, 12:58 PM
The Battle of San Pietro.

http://flattopshistorywarpolitics.yuku.com/topic/2925/master/1/?page=1#.UrNOqSdVeBk

USS Utah
12-26-2013, 11:03 AM
Battle of North Cape.

http://flattopshistorywarpolitics.yuku.com/topic/2951/master/1/#.UrxulvtVeBk

Devildog
01-01-2014, 01:55 PM
Tarawa, Day One

http://flattopshistorywarpolitics.yuku.com/sreply/21998/BougainvilleGilberts-Month


Tarawa, Day Two

http://flattopshistorywarpolitics.yuku.com/sreply/22005/BougainvilleGilberts-Month


Tarawa, Day Three

http://flattopshistorywarpolitics.yuku.com/sreply/22012/BougainvilleGilberts-Month


Tarawa Secured, Makin Taken, Liscome Bay Lost.

http://flattopshistorywarpolitics.yuku.com/reply/22027/BougainvilleGilberts-Month#reply-22027

Thanks for posting. Fascinating read. This is perspective that few in our society understand at all. The sacrifice that these forces sustained defies description... simply amazing. Of course my main interest lies in the naval engagements... however all of your posts on these battles are epic and interesting. Thank you.

Homer Crimson
01-01-2014, 07:43 PM
Throwing this out to anyone but especially USS- I consider myself pretty well versed in the American side of the campaign in the ETO. My knowledge of the Soviet side of the war is so-so. On the Pacific campaign, I feel pretty ignorant. I've read criticisms of MacArthur, and have a general idea of the island hopping and Pearl and Midway.

In your opinion(s) was the U.S. pacific campaign well planned/executed? I'm asking because reading these accounts of the different island battles and the costs of each makes me wonder why we didn't focus more on denying the Japanese access to certain islands and bypassing some of them altogether and leaving the Japanese troops stationed there isolated. Was each island system that critical for overall success? Did we have to root them out of each fortress? I can see taking islands that were vital for projecting air power, but some battles seem like we went in killed everyone and then left never to return. What was the risk of leaving them alone but basically imprisoned and focusing on closing in on the home islands?

Devildog
01-01-2014, 08:13 PM
Homer, IMO a good place to look at the questions you've posed is the battle of Peleliu


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mel9s2IXKHg

USS Utah
01-01-2014, 08:34 PM
Island hopping was supposed to bypass some Japanese strongholds and leave them to rot on the vine. The challenge was, that at least some of these islands had to be taken, if only because they had an airstrip, or land suitable for building one.

After the Guadalcanal campaign, the Japanese started building bases in the central Solomons in the New Georgia group of islands, particularly airbases at Munda on New Georgia and on Kolombangara. The U.S. paid a fairly high price in a difficult jungle campaign to take Munda, so much so that there was little appetite to take Kolombangara. It was proposed to jump over Kolombangara and land on Vella Lavella, which had only a small Japanese outpost, and on the other side of the island from where a landing was proposed and, thus, island hopping as a strategy was born. Afer Vella Lavella, the next move was to Bougainville, but to a part of the big islands where the Japanese did not have any troops. Then, instead of trying to capture the big Japanese base at Rabaul, the allies elected to surround it with U.S. airfields.

Similarly, in New Guinea, MacArthur took Buna and Gona on the north shore of the Papuan Peninsula in a bloody campaign. The next operation in New Guinea was to take Lae, because there was no other suitable place to jump to, however he elected to land troops outside of Lae and march them in to take the base. After that MacArthur landed in the Admiralty Islands as his part of surrounding Rabaul. Once that was done Doug jump over the Japanese base at Wewak to land at Hollandia.

In the Central Pacific, Admiral Nimitz wanted to capture bases in the Marshall Islands, but to do that it was felt that bases in the Gilberts had to be taken to allow land based bombers to pound the Marshalls in preparation. The Fifth Fleet under Admiral Spruance took three atolls in the Gilberts: Tarawa, Makin and Abemama. The last one was unopposed, the second took three days against moderate opposition, and the first was a savage fight. The Japanese at Tarawa believed no one could defeat them in a thousand years, but what really hurt the Marines was the unexpectedly low tides over the coral reef off the landing beaches. After Tarawa, the U.S. decided it needed more tracked landing vehicles, and this, along with other lessons paid off when the Fifth Fleet captured Kwajalein in a shorter, less costly battle.

In prepareing for the Marshall Islands campaign, some of Nimitz's subordinates argued for the need to take outer islands, closer to the Gilberts before Kwajalein could be taken. They argued that the bases on the outer islands presented too big a threat to a landing at Kwajalien in the central Marshalls. But Nimitz listened to the arguments by his carrier commanders that the flattops could neutralize those threats if they were granted the mobility to elminate those threats at their source. In the Gilberts the carriers had been tied to the beaches instead of allowed to move up to the outer Marshalls and strike them. Nimitz listened to his staff and said, "We're going to Kwajalein" and the carriers vindicated his decision by neutralizing the outer islands in a matter of hours. Kwajalein went so well that it was decided to move immediately to take Eniwetok in the western Marshalls while the carriers conducted strikes against the main Japanese base at Truk as well as against the Mariana Islands. These operations went so well that it was decided to not take Truk but move instead to land in the Marianas. These decisions shortened the war significantly.

The Marianas were a key defense line for the Japanese empire. Like the U.S. carriers at Midway, the Japanese fleet had to come out to defend the Marianas. This led to the first carrier battle in more than 18 months, and a major defeat for the Japanese fleet. Taking the Marianas provided bases for B-29s to bomb the home islands of Japan. Midway between the Marianas and Japan, on a straight line, lay Iwo Jima. Japanese radar on Iwo forced the B-29s to take a dogleg around the islands to avoid detection, which increased the length of the missions, all the more dangerous as they were mostly over empty ocean -- In Europe, the bombers flew mostly over land. Additionally, Japanese planes based on Iwo were able to raid the Marianas to bomb the B-29's airfields. Taking Iwo would remove the threat to the airfields, remove the need for the dogleg and the possiblity of early warning to Tokyo, as well provide an emergency landing field for damaged B-29s, or those too low on fuel to make it to the Marianas. Finally, P-51 Mustangs could be based on Iwo to escort the B-29s to Japan, or to make raids of their own. Most of these things are forgotten now, or discounted, because of the high cost the Japanese exacted of the Marines who captured Iwo Jima.

There are also some who question the need for MacArthur to return to the Philippines. But even if you leave out the political considerations of abandoning the Filipino people, there were still valid reasons for landing in the Philippines. Air bases in the archipelago would put air power athwart the shipping lanes in the South China Sea which Japanese merchant shipping used to transport oil and other materials from the East Indies to the home islands. However, after MacArthur landed on Luzon and liberated Manila, he persisted in trying to liberate the remainder of the archipelago, which may not have been necessary.

The only campaign that I think was a mistake was Peleliu in the Palaus. The Marines landed on Peleliu to secure MacArthurs flank for his return to the Philippines, originally planned as a landing on Mindanao. But when the carriers raided the central Philippines in September 1944, they encountered such light opposition that Admiral Halsey recommended bypassing Mindanao and landing on Leyte. At the same time he recommended the cancellation of the landing on Peleliu. Nimitz, MacArthur and the Joint Chiefs agreed on the Leyte landing, but Nimitz insisted on the Peleliu landing, which turned out to be very costly as the defenders dug into the rocky ridges behind the airstrip. Peleliu provided no benefit to follow-on operations, while a large fleet anchorage was captured in a bloodless assault at Ulithi Atoll.

USS Utah
01-01-2014, 08:40 PM
Homer, IMO a good place to look at the questions you've posed is the battle of Peleliu


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mel9s2IXKHg

The Peleliu episodes might have been the best of that miniseries.

Homer Crimson
01-02-2014, 12:27 AM
Great synopsis, I'm bookmarking this for my boy. So they did start to ignore islands that weren't strategic or that they could blockade. I had the impression that they fought over a lot of rocks that they ended up not needing. The little I have read of the Pacific campaign makes it seem so much worse than the ETO. I know all war is hell, but I think I'd rather have been in the Euro campaign after reading about conditions in the Pacific.

USS Utah
01-02-2014, 01:04 AM
Great synopsis, I'm bookmarking this for my boy. So they did start to ignore islands that weren't strategic or that they could blockade. I had the impression that they fought over a lot of rocks that they ended up not needing. The little I have read of the Pacific campaign makes it seem so much worse than the ETO. I know all war is hell, but I think I'd rather have been in the Euro campaign after reading about conditions in the Pacific.

I'm not so sure after reading Rick Atkinson's The Day of Battle on the Italian campaign.

If you're interested, I could recommend a few books on the Pacific War:

Eagle Against the Sun by Ronald Spector

How they Won the War in the Pacific: Nimitz and His Admirals by Edwin P, Hoyt.

The Pacific War by John Costello

Coral and Brass by General Holland Smith

Goodbye Darkness by William Manchester

The chapters on the Pacific War in Samuel Eliot Morison's A Two Ocean War -- and, of course, the Pacific War volumes of his History of United States Navy Operations In World War II.

At the public library you might be able to find the TimeLife World War II series volumes The Rising Sun, Island Fighting, Return to the Philippines and The Road to Tokyo.

wuapinmon
01-05-2014, 01:53 AM
USS Utah,

Did you see that episode of Pawn Stars with the restored Enigma Machine?

USS Utah
01-05-2014, 12:04 PM
USS Utah,

Did you see that episode of Pawn Stars with the restored Enigma Machine?

No, I've never watched Pawn Stars.

tooblue
01-08-2014, 10:53 AM
German man charged over WW2 Oradour massacre in France

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25656746 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25656746)


An 88-year-old German man has been charged with involvement in one of the most infamous World War Two massacres. The charges relate to Oradour-sur-Glane in central France, where 642 people were murdered by SS troops in 1944 ... The ruins of the village have been preserved just as they were after the massacre, as a permanent memorial.

I have visited Oradour-sur-Glane twice, once as a missionary and the second time on vacation with my wife. It is a very humbling and sorrowful experience.

USS Utah
03-05-2018, 06:03 PM
The Queen has been found:

https://news.usni.org/2018/03/05/video-billionaire-paul-allen-finds-lost-world-war-ii-carrier-uss-lexington

The Queen of the Flattops, that is.

USS Utah
03-07-2018, 06:14 PM
Countdown to Infamy

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/flattopshistorywarpolitics/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=3842&p=29143#p29143

USS Utah
07-14-2018, 05:19 PM
Did the Demand for Unconditional Surrender Prolong World War II?

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/flattopshistorywarpolitics/did-the-demand-for-unconditional-surrender-prolong-t3850.html