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concerned
12-31-2018, 11:05 AM
There seems to be a lot of angst among Ute basketball fans about LK and the current state of the program. I am certainly disappointed in where things are today, but I am curious as to the causes for the level of dissatisfaction currently being expressed. From my reading, it appears that the following are the things people are most complaining about: 1. LK's salary - Utes should get more bang for their buck. 2. Transfers of players - Devon Daniels, JoJo Zamora, Makol Mawein, Wright, the skinny kid from Fresno - and whether this means that LK cannot coach certain kids. 3. Not recruiting Joeli Childs. What else

For me, recruiting. Not so much missing out on the Akots and Markennen's, but giving scholies to so many who cant play and have no business being on a D-1 roster. This year, every time I hear that Popoola, Gaskin, Jones cant play, I want to scream. And too many transfers from other D-1 schools, like Bibbins, Barefield, and Zamora. The first two worked out, but the fact that we are relying on those kinds of transfers is telling.

concerned
12-31-2018, 11:06 AM
Style and quality of play. For instance:

https://twitter.com/100thingsutah/status/1079247641949593600?s=21

Agree. Every year we hear we have the players to be more up tempo and we never are. Also: end of half and end of game timeouts to run a play that rarely works.

Diehard Ute
12-31-2018, 11:23 AM
For me, recruiting. Not so much missing out on the Akots and Markennen's, but giving scholies to so many who cant play and have no business being on a D-1 roster. This year, every time I hear that Popoola, Gaskin, Jones cant play, I want to scream. And too many transfers from other D-1 schools, like Bibbins, Barefield, and Zamora. The first two worked out, but the fact that we are relying on those kinds of transfers is telling.

The transfer in aspect is one that will continue to be interesting.

Almost every player on Nevada’s roster transferred in. And a couple of of the players who did not transfer are walk ons.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

NorthwestUteFan
12-31-2018, 04:33 PM
Even when we have great talent on the team, we have a knack for being completely unable to inbound the ball. Stupid play to close out games. Silly mistakes that cause losses.
These are a on the coach. He never seems to adjust to those problems, or at least he hasn't since 2012 or so.

LA Ute
12-31-2018, 04:52 PM
Even when we have great talent on the team, we have a knack for being completely unable to inbound the ball. Stupid play to close out games. Silly mistakes that cause losses.
These are a on the coach. He never seems to adjust to those problems, or at least he hasn't since 2012 or so.

I’ve always wondered why this is a perennial problem. You’re right, it’s on the coach. The momentum-killing timeouts to plan inbounds plays that don’t even come close to working are also head-scratchers — and are repeated and are on the head coach. (Kind of like a perennially mediocre football offense.😉)

Utebiquitous
12-31-2018, 05:21 PM
This was so evident Saturday. Nevada stayed committed to a man-to-man on inbounds plays. I never saw anything that looked like an inbounds play. I understand just getting it in and running offense against a zone but a baseline out-of-bounds situation cries out for a play - in my opinion.

I also loved (sarcasm) the timeout with :07 left at the end of the half. The Utes were advancing the ball quickly but Larry jumped up and called timeout. What came of the timeout? A well-guarded three. Sigh.

LA Ute
01-01-2019, 01:26 AM
I also loved (sarcasm) the timeout with :07 left at the end of the half. The Utes were advancing the ball quickly but Larry jumped up and called timeout. What came of the timeout? A well-guarded three. Sigh.

It’s an odd habit with LK — a momentum-killing TO that results in an inbounds play that flops. Remember the UCLA game at home 2-3 years ago? That same scenario arose at the end of a very winnable game, when all the team needed was a drive the hoop that would produce a basket and/or free throws. Instead, after a time out with a few seconds left, the game ended with Kuzma missing on an off-balance hope shot from 25 feet out as time expired.

LA Ute
01-01-2019, 10:43 AM
Interesting article. Seems to fit here better than anywhere else. I don’t remember David Reichner from the Majerus era:

Utah basketball: Former guard David Reichner talks about his playing days, life as an assistant coach

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865593174/Utah-basketball-Former-guard-David-Reichner-talks-about-his-playing-days-life-as-an-assistant.html

Old Standing ute
01-01-2019, 03:33 PM
David Reichner??

I loved Big Rick, but Soto has an interesting view of his time—-he was not a fan of practicing on Xmas Day.

Agreed: in bounds plays & time outs at end of half’s/games drive me crazy.

Recruiting is a crap shoot—especially when you don’t pay recruits.

SoCalPat
01-01-2019, 11:17 PM
This is how college basketball works now.

Why would I care about the coach's salary? I don't pay it.

LOL. Watch games on TV? Buy tickets to games? Guess what? You're paying Larry's salary.

UTEopia
01-02-2019, 10:12 AM
I'm not paying him any more now than if he earned $100 per year.

All I care about is winning. If we are better with Larry than with someone else, we should keep him. If we can do better, we should fire him. His salary doesn't enter that equation.


I totally agree. One thing people do not talk about is the lack of movement on his staff. I understand why guys like Connor and Jones stay around. They have deep Utah roots, but the other guys really don't and there has apparently been very little interest in those guys from other programs.

SoCalPat
01-02-2019, 11:06 AM
I'm not paying him any more now than if he earned $100 per year.

All I care about is winning. If we are better with Larry than with someone else, we should keep him. If we can do better, we should fire him. His salary doesn't enter that equation.

It’s a bad look when the labor is free and the school has poured millions into investing in the program on his behalf. But you’re ok with Larry getting paid nowhere in relation to the results he’s delivered. Noted.

SoCalPat
01-02-2019, 11:12 AM
I totally agree. One thing people do not talk about is the lack of movement on his staff. I understand why guys like Connor and Jones stay around. They have deep Utah roots, but the other guys really don't and there has apparently been very little interest in those guys from other programs.

I’ve been talking about it for years. Nobody wants our coaches, and for good reason. What do they do that’s exceptional? This is where the rubber leaves the road when it comes to comparing Larry to Kyle — even the coaches that fall out of favor in the program still get jobs elsewhere. The best ones move on and get good jobs, even HC jobs. Hell, our grad assistants eventually find their way into programs — I’m repeated surprised to see names I haven’t talked about in years on the staffs of some good programs.

The idea that Tommy is the heir apparent to Larry was ridiculous 5 years ago, and fortunately, I see no one pushing that as an option if we gotta move on from Larry. Also, I think he’s the highest-paid assistant in the PAC 12. Thanks again, Dr. Hill!

SoCalPat
01-02-2019, 12:09 PM
I'm okay with it in the sense that I don't know or care how much he makes. It means nothing to me as a fan. I just want him to win, or I want someone else who will win. If he made less, would I be more content with losing? No. "Well, we never make the tournament, and the fans are disinterested, but he's coming cheap, so we'll keep him." Said no fan ever.At BYU, they don't know how much their coaches make, and that doesn't really change the equation for them. If we had no idea what Larry was making, would our desires to see him stay/go change? Why? Just win, baby.The salary only matters if it hamstrings us. If it makes it impossible to fire a coach who needs to be fired, then it matters. That's not the case with Larry. If we had a 100%, sure thing improvement, we could afford to fire him today.

Also said no fan ever: "I think it's great that our coach is top 10 nationally in salary while barely cracking the top 10 in his own league standings."

The buyout currently, IIRC, is $12M. Can Utah afford to fire him today? That figure represents about 1/6th of our annual athletics budget -- which includes sizable subsidies from student fees and other indirect institutional support. You're probably gonna have to have donors pony up to cover that buyout, if it were to happen within the next three years. That's money from them that could be going to other projects, paying other coaches, building more facilities, etc.

If Larry made less, the change would be much easier to make. But, as you've noted, you don't think Larry's salary is a big deal and doesn't affect you as a fan.

LA Ute
01-02-2019, 12:36 PM
The idea that Tommy is the heir apparent to Larry was ridiculous 5 years ago, and fortunately, I see no one pushing that as an option if we gotta move on from Larry. Also, I think he’s the highest-paid assistant in the PAC 12. Thanks again, Dr. Hill!

It is a puzzle. Reportedly Tommy also has a sizeable buyout if he's not the next coach after Larry. If so I think that's crazy crazy crazy.

UtahsMrSports
01-02-2019, 12:38 PM
This is true because of the 2nd part of the statement. No fan will put up with an underperforming coach at any salary. Any fan will embrace a winning coach at any salary. It's about wins and losses, not dollars.

Are you saying that you'd be more lenient in evaluating Larry if he earned less? You'd be willing to put up with the losses? That doesn't resonate with me at all.

To add to your point, its not like ticket/merchandise/tv package prices will go down if Larry is paid less. I certainly understand and appreciate the criticism of results versus his high salary, but I ultimately side with you here. The losing sucks whether Larry makes $1 per year or 15 million.

concerned
01-02-2019, 12:39 PM
It is a puzzle. Reportedly Tommy also has a sizeable buyout if he's not the next coach after Larry. If so I think that's crazy crazy crazy.


Without knowing more, that sounds like athletic director malpractice to me. It is hard to believe.

LA Ute
01-02-2019, 12:42 PM
Without knowing more, that sounds like athletic director malpractice to me. It is hard to believe.

Especially hard to believe in light of Chris Hill's tight-fistedness. But who knows? He was willing to throw millions at Larry.

SoCalPat
01-02-2019, 12:48 PM
This is true because of the 2nd part of the statement. No fan will put up with an underperforming coach at any salary. Any fan will embrace a winning coach at any salary. It's about wins and losses, not dollars.

Are you saying that you'd be more lenient in evaluating Larry if he earned less? You'd be willing to put up with the losses? That doesn't resonate with me at all.

I'd be more quick to fire him if he earned less. I'm exhibiting some patience on this because the money doesn't grow on trees, and Larry has shown to be quite capable in years past. I don't think we can really seriously consider firing him before the end of the 2019-20 season, and for probably another year after that.

Larry's lack of performance this year, combined with the ridiculous extensions handed to him by Harlan's predecessor, have put Utah basketball in quite a bind. We're on the hook for a ton, so when people complain about Larry's salary, there's also an undercurrent of dread that we can't act as quickly as we have in the past.

concerned
01-02-2019, 12:54 PM
Especially hard to believe in light of Chris Hill's tight-fistedness. But who knows? He was willing to throw millions at Larry.


And C Hills' timetable; as it turned out, he really would have been handcuffing Harlan or any successor.

SoCalPat
01-02-2019, 12:56 PM
I'd be more quick to fire him if he earned less. I'm exhibiting some patience on this because the money doesn't grow on trees, and Larry has shown to be quite capable in years past. I don't think we can really seriously consider firing him before the end of the 2019-20 season, and for probably another year after that.

Larry's lack of performance this year, combined with the ridiculous extensions handed to him by Harlan's predecessor, have put Utah basketball in quite a bind. We're on the hook for a ton, so when people complain about Larry's salary, there's also an undercurrent of dread that we can't act as quickly as we have in the past.

Also, the growth in apathy in the fanbase that could occur if we get results like these over the next year or two are damaging financially in terms of lost ticket sales, concessions, parking, donations, etc. But yeah, you guys that say Larry's salary shouldn't matter, keep thinking that. Money is everything in college athletics, and the better you use it, the better results you see. We're not a program that can afford to be throwing it around.

SoCalPat
01-02-2019, 03:12 PM
I am not arguing that money doesn't matter in college athletics. I'm arguing that it doesn't matter to me when deciding whether or not I believe Larry should be fired. I am not weighing his performance against his salary. I'm weighing his performance against my hopes and expectations for Utah basketball.

I did mention that the salary clearly does matter if it hamstrings a firing decision.

Would you say his salary, in relation to his peers, clearly exceeds your hopes and expectations for Utah basketball? He receives a salary that is in line with annual NCAA bids, frequent wins and maybe a deep run that results in a Final Four. Are the results we’re getting this year acceptable for a coach that’s the 8th-highest paid in the country?

SeattleUte
01-02-2019, 07:43 PM
I'd be more quick to fire him if he earned less.

Hill was in over his head. But if the losing gets bad enough, Harlan will raise the money needed to enable him to make a change, whatever the truth is about the buyout. The key to America’s success is that everything can be reduced to a money problem. This is just a money problem which is inherently solveable. Ultimately, Utah’s fatcats care most about basketball.

LA Ute
01-02-2019, 08:16 PM
Without knowing more, that sounds like athletic director malpractice to me. It is hard to believe.

Driven by Huntsman?

UTEopia
01-03-2019, 10:07 AM
I believe there are a couple of things that can be done to improve the basketball atmosphere. These are not major things, but I think they would help. While the Utes played a better schedule this year, the only home games worth seeing were Tulsa and Nevada. We schedule a bunch of shit teams nobody is interested in seeing. I'm all for smart scheduling, but if you are going to play a DII school, play Dixie or Westminster. Play a home and home with Weber, USU and BYU in the years that you don't play that school in the tournament thing. Play SUU and UVU instead of Florida Atlantic and Northern Arizona.

Scratch
01-03-2019, 10:12 AM
It is a puzzle. Reportedly Tommy also has a sizeable buyout if he's not the next coach after Larry. If so I think that's crazy crazy crazy.

This is not true. I just got Connor's contract. It's a one-year deal from July 1 2018 through June 30 2019, and it expires in June with at least 30-days notice from the U. There is nothing in it about Tommy becoming the next head coach, and it says that if he is terminated before the end of the contractual term then he is only entitled to the payment that's left on the deal. Additionally, the contract is fully integrated and my request would have covered any other documents spelling out anything dealing with him becoming the next head coach.

Rocker Ute
01-03-2019, 10:13 AM
This is not true. I just got Connor's contract. It's a one-year deal from July 1 2018 through June 30 2019, and it expires in June with at least 30-days notice from the U. There is nothing in it about Tommy becoming the next head coach, and it says that if he is terminated before the end of the contractual term then he is only entitled to the payment that's left on the deal. Additionally, the contract is fully integrated and my request would have covered any other documents spelling out anything dealing with him becoming the next head coach.

Scratch GRAMA requests to the rescue!

LA Ute
01-03-2019, 11:22 AM
This is not true. I just got Connor's contract. It's a one-year deal from July 1 2018 through June 30 2019, and it expires in June with at least 30-days notice from the U. There is nothing in it about Tommy becoming the next head coach, and it says that if he is terminated before the end of the contractual term then he is only entitled to the payment that's left on the deal. Additionally, the contract is fully integrated and my request would have covered any other documents spelling out anything dealing with him becoming the next head coach.

Thank you for killing that rumor, as incredible as it was!

UTEopia
01-11-2019, 10:29 AM
Mac's tenure as Utah HC ended because many fans simply could not see any sustained improvement and eventually stopped caring. One of his last games as HC was against UNLV and my estimate was that there were fewer than 20k fans in attendance. I get the feeling that is where things are with LK. Nobody goes. Nobody is interested. The U is offering lower bowl tickets for $8 and can't sell them. Something needs to change.

concerned
01-11-2019, 10:38 AM
Mac's tenure as Utah HC ended because many fans simply could not see any sustained improvement and eventually stopped caring. One of his last games as HC was against UNLV and my estimate was that there were fewer than 20k fans in attendance. I get the feeling that is where things are with LK. Nobody goes. Nobody is interested. The U is offering lower bowl tickets for $8 and can't sell them. Something needs to change.


it is just so hard to watch. it is not enjoyable, and there isnt any optimism in the fan base.

BTW, I saw a tweet yesterday that Stanford's home game against UCLA had the lowest attendance since 1985. It was announced at 3,200 more or less, and somebody commented that the actual attendance was much less than that.

UtahsMrSports
01-11-2019, 12:04 PM
As you read my comments, keep in mind that I am a paid shill.

We have a mix of non-'one and done' young kids combined with a senior group that has always been inconsistent.

In my opinion, these young guys are cut more from the Loveridge/Taylor/Tucker mold than they are the mold of other guys who have left. I think the struggles now will pay off in the coming years as they grow together and are joined next year by a very talented class.

I hope fans show up to support them. I think it will be worth it given time.

Old Standing ute
01-11-2019, 02:27 PM
I agree, but it is really painful to watch.

Not sure why Tillman only played 20 minutes last night, the same as CJ Jr & 1 more than PVD. I know he plays different position, but he needs to be on the floor, especially when Barefield is not scoring.

The starting lineup with Battin & PVD has to change. It does for 2nd half,but makes for a slow painful start to the game.

Gach is the only point guard on the team & the only one who seems to be able to come up with a loose ball. He was best Ute player last night, which was a low bar.

The back-court of CJ Jr & PVD, which they had to use in OT at AZ because of fouls & gach ankle, did not work then & was like throwing in the towel last night. Neither one can create a shot for themselves or teammates. And with our 5's (either one) it is like an episode of 2 1/2 men--against 5.
CJ Jr is a shut down defender--but his shot is so flat.

Good recruiting class coming in next year--lots of Bigs & Lahat at full strength. They will need a shooter---

The only hope for this year is the rest of the league is equally bad.

UBlender
01-11-2019, 04:00 PM
It's like some of you were sitting right behind my brother-in-law last night in the Hunty.....or maybe some of our seemingly astute observations were fairly obvious.

I made the same comment as SoCalPat above: Larry is going to be in real trouble very soon not necessarily because of his win/loss record but because of the general apathy around the program. Hard to see him lasting beyond next season if something doesn't change, but that will depend on people making the money work and I'm not sure how that looks now with Huntsman Sr having passed.

I could be talked into Utah being pretty solid next season, but they desperately need one of the big men to be competent and will be relying on a group of freshmen to supplant a fourth year senior. Jayce struggles with a lot of things but he goes hard and Larry obviously likes him so he may be entrenched in the lineup.

Crisp was going off in the first half until Utah put Jones on him, pretty quiet from that point on. Jones is a huge letdown on offense but having a lock down defender on the perimeter is also something this team sorely needs.

Utah also desperately needs another shooting guard next year, with the emphasis on the shooting. I still get mad because if I could custom-build the guard they need it would basically be Vante Hendrix--someone who can shoot and brings some athleticism and toughness. I expect Utah to be looking hard at JCs for this, but hopefully with better results than they have gotten from Jones (offensively, at least).

The rotations and playing time distributions were also weird. Utah immediately picked things up when Tillman entered the game in the first half. I'm not sure why he played so few minutes overall. It was also a 12-15 point game with almost five minutes left when both Barefield and Tillman came out to never return--Utah was very unlikely to win at that point but it seemed early to wave the white flag. Barefield was not having a good game but his presence did open things up for others to get shots.

Weird game. Very frustrating and bleak time for the program.

Utebiquitous
01-11-2019, 04:28 PM
I'm mystified by Battin in the starting lineup. He has a long way to go to become more than a spot up shooter. Last night, he couldn't fill that role. I haven't followed the Utes closely this year so I ask an honest question: can Battin become a Pac-12 player? What have any of you seen to assuage my concerns.

Loved Charles Jones last night. We sure need his defense. I actually thought he drove well a few times and found some people. Agree that his shot didn't look good. Gach and Allen are both big positives but both need a lot of work on shooting/shooting form - especially Allen. If he doesn't put some significant work on his shot - especially getting rid of holding the ball out from his body as he rises to shoot - he'll just be an undersized inside player his final few years. Allen sure fills the stat sheet though.

I totally agree with Blender on the need for a Vante Hendrix type player next season. We have a strong class coming in but none of them fit that description. Can Jones get there? I don't think he has the size or the shot. I see him as a high-energy off the bench player who helps Larry have that second unit of "junk-yard dogs" who defend and beat up opponents. I sure wish the first unit played that way all the time.

UTEopia
01-11-2019, 07:02 PM
I'm mystified by Battin in the starting lineup. He has a long way to go to become more than a spot up shooter. Last night, he couldn't fill that role. I haven't followed the Utes closely this year so I ask an honest question: can Battin become a Pac-12 player? What have any of you seen to assuage my concerns.


It will all depend on his willingness to hit the weights and become stronger and more physical.

FountainOfUte
01-16-2019, 01:23 PM
Mac's tenure as Utah HC ended because many fans simply could not see any sustained improvement and eventually stopped caring. One of his last games as HC was against UNLV and my estimate was that there were fewer than 20k fans in attendance. I get the feeling that is where things are with LK. Nobody goes. Nobody is interested. The U is offering lower bowl tickets for $8 and can't sell them. Something needs to change.

It is interesting to think about where the LK-era program is heading. It's both full of promise and seemingly spinning its wheels. It's an odd combo of sentiments to feel. It's kind of how you feel when a new coach comes in to build up a broken program, and yet we're eight years into this regime.

I still think back to the Poeltl sophomore season before we crapped the bed against Gonzaga. Besides a couple bumps along the way, it looked like LK had successfully pulled us out of the post-Majerus maelstrom. My sentiments were high. Then there was that weird two-year period where our recruiting just took a major dump and the team didn't reload.

What that looks like today, three seasons after Poeltl left, is a team with upperclassmen that haven't blossomed and a bunch of young bucks who are taking their underclassman lumps. Admittedly it's so frustrating to be here 8 years into a coach's tenure. For the first time in the LK era I'm questioning if he's the guy. That Washington game was so hard to watch that I was still grousing about it and didn't go to the WSU game (which, ironically, probably would have gotten the Husky-beat-down taste out of my mouth).

As UTEopia suggests, will fans run out of patience before this young core can pay off with post-season dividends? I expect nothing of note this year, which puts a lot of pressure on next year to show that this program is headed toward good places. I wonder what next year has to yield to satisfy fans and boosters? I don't think NIT will cut it.

At this point, I expect this team to make the NCAA tourney the next three years in a row (with at least one of those making it past the first weekend). If that doesn't happen, I'll be let down.

UTEopia
01-16-2019, 03:05 PM
At this point, I expect this team to make the NCAA tourney the next three years in a row (with at least one of those making it past the first weekend). If that doesn't happen, I'll be let down.

We are essentially in the same place we were when Taylor, Loveridge and Tucker were freshmen. I think you are setting yourself up for a letdown with expectations for NCAA's next year. Goch, Allen and Battin may have higher ceilings than those three, but do they have the same work ethic? Can Allen develop an outside shot as Loveridge did? Can Goch acquire a no prisoners attitude of Taylor and can Battin be a consistent 3 point threat? What does Thioune really bring to the table. We were told he was very raw. Is there a Delon Wright or Jacob Poetl in the incoming class? I'm not buying an NCAA appearance next year, maybe NIT. I hope I am wrong.

Applejack
01-16-2019, 04:47 PM
I'm thinking you'll be let down. When did Utah last make the tourney three years in a row? 2003-05? We had the future NBA #1 draft pick on our team for two of those.

Here are our consecutive appearance streaks in the tournament:

2 years 15-16
4 years 02-05
6 years 95-00
3 years 77-79
3 years 59-61
2 years 55-56
2 years 44-45

Damn 2001; two future fringe nba bigs and we only made the nit?

UtahsMrSports
01-16-2019, 05:52 PM
Damn 2001; two future fringe nba bigs and we only made the nit?

#FireRick

SeattleUte
01-16-2019, 06:54 PM
We are essentially in the same place we were when Taylor, Loveridge and Tucker were freshmen. I think you are setting yourself up for a letdown with expectations for NCAA's next year. Goch, Allen and Battin may have higher ceilings than those three, but do they have the same work ethic? Can Allen develop an outside shot as Loveridge did? Can Goch acquire a no prisoners attitude of Taylor and can Battin be a consistent 3 point threat? What does Thioune really bring to the table. We were told he was very raw. Is there a Delon Wright or Jacob Poetl in the incoming class? I'm not buying an NCAA appearance next year, maybe NIT. I hope I am wrong.

One of the signs of our program’s decline over the past 15 years is the reduced expectations of the fans. This should not be acceptable at Utah.

SeattleUte
01-16-2019, 06:57 PM
#FireRick

You, with your graven image of Krystkowiak as your avatar, are shameless. I owe LAUte an apology when he complained about some posters deifying coaches in disregard of the U of U’s interests. He was talking about you!

UtahsMrSports
01-17-2019, 06:04 AM
You, with your graven image of Krystkowiak as your avatar, are shameless. I owe LAUte an apology when he complained about some posters deifying coaches in disregard of the U of U’s interests. He was talking about you!

I have a wife and three kids to feed. What do you think happens to my paycheck if all of a sudden I stop promoting Larry k online? It's a horrible burden to carry.

SoCalPat
01-17-2019, 09:48 AM
I'm reading a great book on the Chicago Cubs ... "Story of a Curse," by Rich Cohen. Interestingly enough, one of his sources is Doug Plank, who is known for being the 46 (his uniform number) in the great 1985 Chicago Bears Super Bowl winning team's 46 Defense. He lists three kinds of coaches that are hired, and I think his descriptions are ones we're all familiar with with regard to Utah basketball.

The Aspirin Coach: He comes in and feeds you a bunch of baloney that makes you feel good initially, but nothing really changes. There is some immediate improvement, but it's fleeting. I think this fits Jim Boylen to a 'T'. The players he inherited were talented and needed something different than Giacoletti (who, for sake of this exercise, is probably another Aspirin coach as well). I also think Jimmy vowed not to go down that road again with the Bulls, and became another type of coach (more on that later). But when Jimmy's inherited players moved on, he was lost.

The Penicillin Coach: He fixes everything, any problems (like recruiting) or illnesses (in-game strategy, practice habits, etc.). Your truly great coaches are largely these types, and they don't have to adjust their style a whole lot throughout their tenure. Majerus was penicillin on game day, probably my next example in other instances. But penicillin alone doesn't cure cancer, and it's a malady that's common on many teams. That's when you need ...

The Chemo Coach: He comes in, he's the unquestioned Man. Don't like what he's doing? You're gone. He's that powerful (I think Jimmy has tried to transform into a Chemo Coach with the Bulls -- and the NBA is probably the worst place to be that kind of coach). Some great examples of Chemo coaches are Mike Ditka, Bill Parcells and Jimmy Johnson. For the sake of the book, Plank listed Leo Duroucher as one. And I would say Larry Krystkowiak is one, even though it probably wasn't his intent to be one his entire career at Utah. Those that only know how to operate in that fashion aren't built for long-term sustainability.

Here's the problem Larry finds himself in. When he took on the job at Utah, in his mind, maybe the team itself wasn't in need of chemotherapy, but the program was. How many times did we hear in our 5-win season that the culture needed to be changed? As a result, just about everyone tainted by previous staffs had to be let go. Collectively, they weren't cancerous, but individually -- well, Larry couldn't take that chance. It's why everyone but Jason Washburn was either let go or put on a very short leash (Jiggy Watkins comes to mind).

Larry basically had to kill the patient (Utah basketball) in order to save it. I think we're all in agreement on that.

You can do that once, and Larry succeeded wildly at it. Increasing win totals in his first five years, a S16, R32 that was preceded by an NIT bid (that would've been an NCAA year with better non-con scheduling). But what does the Chemo coach do when the patient is healthy? Utah basketball is largely healthy. We've consistently outperformed our predicted finish. We have the practice facility, we're fully entrenched in the Pac-12 and recruiting is pretty good. You don't give chemo to people without cancer -- if they're predisposed to it, there are lifestyle changes and safekeeping that you can undergo to help reduce your risk for getting cancer.

Football and baseball can do well with a one-size-fits-all kind of coach, because of the number of players involved. Also, Baseball also has a farm system, while football is predisposed to shorter playing careers and contracts that aren't guaranteed. The players HAVE to adapt to the coach, not the other way around.

Basketball -- you can only survive so long by being one kind, especially considering the youth of the players and that they have been empowered with more options now than ever before (options that didn't exist under Majerus, for example). Larry needed to be an Aspirin coach with guys like Chapman, Daniels and Hendrix. He needs to be more of a penicillin coach on gamedays. There's rarely any need for him to be a Chemo coach any longer, and I'm afraid that style is the only style his assistants know (especially Connor and Hill).

All coaches have a sell-by date. It's not universally the same. Some lucky ones (like Kyle) largely get to choose that date. Larry has two millstones around his neck right now -- his salary and growing apathy among the fanbase. Majerus started accumulating those late in his career at Utah, too (the Allred incident cannot be emphasized enough in this regard). Sometimes, it's the coach that's the cancer. How he gets to be a cancer has a long list of variables in it. But that's when the AD has to apply the chemo. I don't think we're needing to call in Dr. Harlan yet, not even close.

But the goodwill tank for Larry has been draining for some time. It's not completely empty, but it's nowhere near as full as it was after Delon graduated. He has time to fill it -- as frustrated as we are with this season, I think it's nearly universally understood that he gets this year, next year and probably the year after that. He's getting that time because, as lost as he may be with trying to find his way with this team, the results are still much, much better than what we had in Ray and Jimmy's final two years. He's got to figure it out. I think a shakeup among his assistants would do Larry a world of good this offseason, and a contract restructuring would add significantly to his goodwill tank.

SoCalPat
01-17-2019, 10:27 AM
I'm thinking you'll be let down. When did Utah last make the tourney three years in a row? 2003-05? We had the future NBA #1 draft pick on our team for two of those.

Here are our consecutive appearance streaks in the tournament:

2 years 15-16
4 years 02-05
6 years 95-00
3 years 77-79
3 years 59-61
2 years 55-56
2 years 44-45

I don't think consecutive year streaks do much to explain fan expectations with relation to program history for two reasons: First, nobody out there is insisting Utah should be making the tournament every year. Second, previous teams would've had longer streaks if they got to play in today's expanded bracket era.

(There's also a third issue -- probation -- that kept your 59-61 example from being four straight NCAA bids instead of three, but I'm only including that here for background.)

I think Jerry Pimm making the Dance 5 times in 7 years is a much more impressive "streak" than any of our 2/3 year streaks you note. Pimm would've had an NIT berth the year prior to that had the NIT not contracted from 16 teams to 12 for one year, so that's 6 postseason bids in 8 years, five of them NCAA. And although the NCAA fields grew in Pimm's era from 32 to 52, it's still far short of today's 68. I think this timeframe best represents the expectations fans have for Utah hoops.

SeattleUte
01-17-2019, 12:01 PM
I don't think consecutive year streaks do much to explain fan expectations with relation to program history for two reasons: First, nobody out there is insisting Utah should be making the tournament every year. Second, previous teams would've had longer streaks if they got to play in today's expanded bracket era.

(There's also a third issue -- probation -- that kept your 59-61 example from being four straight NCAA bids instead of three, but I'm only including that here for background.)

I think Jerry Pimm making the Dance 5 times in 7 years is a much more impressive "streak" than any of our 2/3 year streaks you note. Pimm would've had an NIT berth the year prior to that had the NIT not contracted from 16 teams to 12 for one year, so that's 6 postseason bids in 8 years, five of them NCAA. And although the NCAA fields grew in Pimm's era from 32 to 52, it's still far short of today's 68. I think this timeframe best represents the expectations fans have for Utah hoops.

Utah fans have a lot of goodwill for the basketball program and high expections. That is manifest in the exorbitant salary that Hill was able to raise for Krsystkowiak. Before Urban Meyer or Kyle Whittingham, before the Pac 12, while BYU owned us in football, before the Winter Olympics, before Mitt Romney, before the Utah Jazz or the Utah Stars, Runnin Ute basketball is what made people from other bigger market places pay attention to Utah and made Utah special, what put us on the map. It’s a long and beloved tradition that was brought to a high water mark by Majerus. Where Utah basketball is now is a tragedy of cosmic proportions for those who lived through even part of those glory days, and our AD needs to fix this foundering program. Nobody cares about renegotiating the coach’s contract. People want Utah basketball to be the Green Bay Packers of college football again—instead of Gonzaga, Wichita State, Butler, etc.

UTEopia
01-17-2019, 02:16 PM
Utah fans have a lot of goodwill for the basketball program and high expections. That is manifest in the exorbitant salary that Hill was able to raise for Krsystkowiak. Before Urban Meyer or Kyle Whittingham, before the Pac 12, while BYU owned us in football, before the Winter Olympics, before Mitt Romney, before the Utah Jazz or the Utah Stars, Runnin Ute basketball is what made people from other bigger market places pay attention to Utah and made Utah special, what put us on the map. It’s a long and beloved tradition that was brought to a high water mark by Majerus. Where Utah basketball is now is a tragedy of cosmic proportions for those who lived through even part of those glory days, and our AD needs to fix this foundering program. Nobody cares about renegotiating the coach’s contract. People want Utah basketball to be the Green Bay Packers of college football again—instead of Gonzaga, Wichita State, Butler, etc.

I agree. I'm not sure whether the fix is to continue with LK or move on. We will all have differing opinions on that question.

Solon
01-17-2019, 02:44 PM
Utah fans have a lot of goodwill for the basketball program and high expections. That is manifest in the exorbitant salary that Hill was able to raise for Krsystkowiak. Before Urban Meyer or Kyle Whittingham, before the Pac 12, while BYU owned us in football, before the Winter Olympics, before Mitt Romney, before the Utah Jazz or the Utah Stars, Runnin Ute basketball is what made people from other bigger market places pay attention to Utah and made Utah special, what put us on the map. It’s a long and beloved tradition that was brought to a high water mark by Majerus. Where Utah basketball is now is a tragedy of cosmic proportions for those who lived through even part of those glory days, and our AD needs to fix this foundering program. Nobody cares about renegotiating the coach’s contract. People want Utah basketball to be the Green Bay Packers of college football again—instead of Gonzaga, Wichita State, Butler, etc.

Excellent posts today, folks.

It's hard to explain
In any given year, I would trade a 1-win football season and a blow-out loss to the byu for an Elite 8 or Final-4 appearance in the NCAA.

chrisrenrut
01-17-2019, 04:00 PM
Excellent posts today, folks.

It's hard to explain
In any given year, I would trade a 1-win football season and a blow-out loss to the byu for an Elite 8 or Final-4 appearance in the NCAA.

I used to feel this way. Not so much since 2004/2008.

FountainOfUte
01-17-2019, 04:11 PM
I'm thinking you'll be let down. When did Utah last make the tourney three years in a row? 2003-05? We had the future NBA #1 draft pick on our team for two of those.

Here are our consecutive appearance streaks in the tournament:

2 years 15-16
4 years 02-05
6 years 95-00
3 years 77-79
3 years 59-61
2 years 55-56
2 years 44-45

It's interesting to see the numbers. I remember these streaks generally but haven't stared them in the eyes.

It's true, we've not put many impressive streaks together lately. I personally feel like Utah should be in the tourney about 3 years out of 5, with one of those visits being S16 or deeper. Also, well before this season started I didn't expect this to be a Dance year (and kinda got killed for that opinion on Twitter). While I knew we'd be breaking in a bunch of young Thorobreds this year, what I didn't see coming was the sad trombone play of the upperclassmen. I think I finally have to admit that I was wrong about Jayce. He's been a bit of a social media piñata, and I've been preaching patience -- that he'd be one of those guys who'd start paying off big in his Jr and Sr years. Oops.

Similarly Van Dyke and Barefield have been inconsistent and Charles Jones and Topalovic have had almost zero impact for a decorated JC and an experienced transfer. Even Tillman - who I still have quite a bit of faith in - hasn't made as big a leap as I thought.

With all of that said, just the addition of a pure and talented point guard (Jones) next year could do WONDERS for our anemic offense woes. And all of these young guys, I think (i.e. hope), will have taken enough hard knocks this year to pay off with success next year. At that point, I just figure that these young guys just keep getting better the next years.

So, yeah, I'm doing some pro-level wishing here regarding NCAA's the next three seasons, but I think we're finally filling the ranks with the kind of talent that can get it done. Question is, can LK keep this group focused, can he keep the fans hopeful and the boosters satisfied, and can he walk the scheduling tightrope just right so that the team gets wins with wins that count (this has been a surprising shortcoming of LK's).

FountainOfUte
01-17-2019, 04:29 PM
People want Utah basketball to be the Green Bay Packers of college football again—instead of Gonzaga, Wichita State, Butler, etc.

Utah fans are what I assume you mean by "people," right? I'm not sure Utah basketball's appeal spreads much beyond the Beehive State. Majerus's did as a cult of personality, but that left with him to St. Louie.

I think the college basketball world has changed too much, even since Majerus, to think that any of our past success would apply again today. I think our ceiling is higher than we've shown in the last decade, but I'm also not sure what the right formula is to reach bigger and more consistent heights. We have the facilities. We have (at least I THINK we have ) a P5 basketball conference, we have some history, there's some local talent, and plenty of regional talent to recruit here. Just gotta put it all together.

SeattleUte
01-17-2019, 06:29 PM
Utah fans are what I assume you mean by "people," right? I'm not sure Utah basketball's appeal spreads much beyond the Beehive State. Majerus's did as a cult of personality, but that left with him to St. Louie.

I think the college basketball world has changed too much, even since Majerus, to think that any of our past success would apply again today. I think our ceiling is higher than we've shown in the last decade, but I'm also not sure what the right formula is to reach bigger and more consistent heights. We have the facilities. We have (at least I THINK we have ) a P5 basketball conference, we have some history, there's some local talent, and plenty of regional talent to recruit here. Just gotta put it all together.

Your first paragraph is nonsense, I don’t understand it, and I’m sure nobody else does. As for the second paragraph, you must be about 18 years old or suffering from memory loss.

The formula for success at Utah isn’t a mystery. It’s the same for basketball as football, has succeeded for a hundred years, and still works. It’s simply this: 1) a defense first philosophy; 2) totally uncompromising work ethic; 3) a disciplined and patient offense that relies on intelligent choices and appreciates its subordinate role to and reliance on success defending against the opponent’s offense; 4) overwhelming success and willingness to take risks recruiting the very best players in Utah outside of Alpine, Orem, and Provo; 5) patience with and ability to work the mission thing; 6) four-year players who may take a couple of years to become effective the core of the program; 7) consistency in executing these concepts with a long-term commitment to the program.

That’s the formula. It’s not easy. It takes a special coach. And the reason Utah has been failing for well over half of the past 15 years is that our coaches have lacked the character that prior coaches had.

Anytime anyone tries to do it the lazy way, looking for shortuts in Europe or through too much reliance on Jucos or transfers, or an offense that looks like North Carolina’s, disaster ensues. Utah had success before Majerus and even spotty success afterward. If anything, Utah has more ability to succeed now than when it was hidden away in the MWC or WAC.

SoCalPat
01-17-2019, 09:53 PM
I used to feel this way. Not so much since 2004/2008.

You're crazy. Solon's proposal is only sacrificing one football season. And it's for something that predates 2004-2008. We've blown past the 20-year mark since our last Final Four. Has breaking the BCS and thumping Alabama in the Sugar Bowl really reduced boatracing Arizona and beating North Carolina (and leading Kentucky for 30-plus minutes) to something so trifling that we wouldn't take going 1-11 in football to experience it again?

SoCalPat
01-17-2019, 09:54 PM
Utah fans are what I assume you mean by "people," right? I'm not sure Utah basketball's appeal spreads much beyond the Beehive State. Majerus's did as a cult of personality, but that left with him to St. Louie.

I think the college basketball world has changed too much, even since Majerus, to think that any of our past success would apply again today. I think our ceiling is higher than we've shown in the last decade, but I'm also not sure what the right formula is to reach bigger and more consistent heights. We have the facilities. We have (at least I THINK we have ) a P5 basketball conference, we have some history, there's some local talent, and plenty of regional talent to recruit here. Just gotta put it all together.

I understood what you meant. SU used Green Bay to mirror the demographic disadvantage Utah hoops faces. You took it to mean widespread popularity and national appeal.

SeattleUte
01-17-2019, 10:07 PM
I understood what you meant. SU used Green Bay to mirror the demographic disadvantage Utah hoops faces. You took it to mean widespread popularity and national appeal.
That’s right.

chrisrenrut
01-17-2019, 10:55 PM
You're crazy. Solon's proposal is only sacrificing one football season. And it's for something that predates 2004-2008. We've blown past the 20-year mark since our last Final Four. Has breaking the BCS and thumping Alabama in the Sugar Bowl really reduced boatracing Arizona and beating North Carolina (and leading Kentucky for 30-plus minutes) to something so trifling that we wouldn't take going 1-11 in football to experience it again?

How long do you think it takes Utah to recover from a 1 win season in football? Certainly not as quickly as other schools. We aren’t Washington or Stanford, able to lure a big name coach while in the dregs of despair.

Football is king now. A lot of us old timers grew up in an era where basketball was king. But 2004/2008 changed that. The financial implications would be huge. Here are the 2017-2018 financial numbers:

Football
Revenue: $60.2M
Expenses: $29.4M

Basketball
Revenue: $10.5M
Expenses: $9.5M

The long term overall effects of tanking in football, and a long term recovery would not be offset by selling out the Hunts and additional tournament shares.

LA Ute
01-18-2019, 06:15 AM
But the goodwill tank for Larry has been draining for some time. It's not completely empty, but it's nowhere near as full as it was after Delon graduated. He has time to fill it -- as frustrated as we are with this season, I think it's nearly universally understood that he gets this year, next year and probably the year after that. He's getting that time because, as lost as he may be with trying to find his way with this team, the results are still much, much better than what we had in Ray and Jimmy's final two years. He's got to figure it out. I think a shakeup among his assistants would do Larry a world of good this offseason, and a contract restructuring would add significantly to his goodwill tank.

I think this makes a lot of sense.

UtahsMrSports
01-18-2019, 08:02 AM
This offseason will tell us a lot. Right now, we are playing with 9 scholarship players, with 2 transfers out and 2 redshirts. Of those redshirts, I Wouldn't be surprised to see one of them head to JUCO after this year. With 3 seniors, that gives us 7 returners for next year. Larry needs at least 6 of the 7 and probably all 7 to stick around for continuity's sake. The foundation, as painful as it is this year, is being placed. Now we need to keep building onit.

SoCalPat
01-18-2019, 08:59 AM
How long do you think it takes Utah to recover from a 1 win season in football? Certainly not as quickly as other schools. We aren’t Washington or Stanford, able to lure a big name coach while in the dregs of despair.

Football is king now. A lot of us old timers grew up in an era where basketball was king. But 2004/2008 changed that. The financial implications would be huge. Here are the 2017-2018 financial numbers:

Football
Revenue: $60.2M
Expenses: $29.4M

Basketball
Revenue: $10.5M
Expenses: $9.5M

The long term overall effects of tanking in football, and a long term recovery would not be offset by selling out the Hunts and additional tournament shares.

A one-win season would require a lot of bad luck and fluky circumstances that would largely be limited to a single season. The world didn't end when we went 5-7 in back to back years. Now, if you're talking about a coach in his first year at Utah, I wouldn't make that trade in that season. Yes, that could be disastrous. But a 1-win season would be so against the norm for this program, in so much conflict with everything we have going for it, that every observer would chalk it up as an cosmically tragic aberration, and not something to portend a generational wandering in the desert.

I will say this -- I think there's a segment of Ute fans that are always tamping down expectations, or aren't willing to risk being mediocre for a season or two with a payoff of something truly great. I guarantee you, I could poll 2000 Ute fans with two three-year scenarios, one that includes a playoff spot but a losing year or two, and one of 9 wins for three straight years with no championships of any kind, and at least 25 percent would choose the latter.

SoCalPat
01-18-2019, 09:06 AM
I think this makes a lot of sense.

Let me also add that if Larry continues with the status quo, he runs the risk of coaching for his job next year. Yes, that sentiment is driven 100 percent by the fact that we have a new AD who is probably having a few "WTF?" moments this year regarding the hoops program. That "year after next year" that I think he gets right now could be gone if there isn't some kind of change, cosmetic or truly difference-making.

SoCalPat
01-18-2019, 09:10 AM
Thankfully, football and basketball aren't competing in a zero-sum game of success.

I think Solon's point is that he cares more about basketball than football.

I bet Solon would take another 5-win basketball season in exchange for a spot in the playoff, too. I know I would.

SoCalPat
01-18-2019, 09:45 AM
I agree. I was surprised when you wrote "year after next year". I don't think it gets that far unless there is clear improvement next season.

I'm hedging my bets. I don't know what "clear improvement" for next year should be defined as until I know exactly what we've done this season.

UTEopia
01-18-2019, 03:28 PM
A one-win season would require a lot of bad luck and fluky circumstances that would largely be limited to a single season. The world didn't end when we went 5-7 in back to back years. Now, if you're talking about a coach in his first year at Utah, I wouldn't make that trade in that season. Yes, that could be disastrous. But a 1-win season would be so against the norm for this program, in so much conflict with everything we have going for it, that every observer would chalk it up as an cosmically tragic aberration, and not something to portend a generational wandering in the desert.

I will say this -- I think there's a segment of Ute fans that are always tamping down expectations, or aren't willing to risk being mediocre for a season or two with a payoff of something truly great. I guarantee you, I could poll 2000 Ute fans with two three-year scenarios, one that includes a playoff spot but a losing year or two, and one of 9 wins for three straight years with no championships of any kind, and at least 25 percent would choose the latter.

3 years? I doubt it. Now, if you said 8 years, I might agree. I could have the Utes lose to BYU for the rest of my life (25 years tops) if I 3 bowls equal to the Sugar Bowl and 1 Final Four.

SeattleUte
01-19-2019, 12:00 PM
This offseason will tell us a lot. Right now, we are playing with 9 scholarship players, with 2 transfers out and 2 redshirts. Of those redshirts, I Wouldn't be surprised to see one of them head to JUCO after this year. With 3 seniors, that gives us 7 returners for next year. Larry needs at least 6 of the 7 and probably all 7 to stick around for continuity's sake. The foundation, as painful as it is this year, is being placed. Now we need to keep building onit.

LA, please move this propaganda to the apologetics thread.

LA Ute
01-19-2019, 10:32 PM
LA, please move this propaganda to the apologetics thread.

Sorry, the thought police have MLK weekend off.

Scorcho
01-20-2019, 04:32 PM
OMG, Utes are playing lights out defense today.

It's like its the late 90's in the Hunty

Scorcho
01-20-2019, 05:04 PM
I listened to the pregame and they mentioned that during this break with no games that the ignored the offense and just focused on defense. CU has 19 points at half and was fortunate to get that many

Scorcho
01-20-2019, 05:17 PM
Everyone check your My Space page because this looks like a Majerus led team today.

chrisrenrut
01-20-2019, 05:21 PM
Everyone check your My Space page because this looks like a Majerus led team today.

Unfortunately I’m out of AOL minutes for the month.

I have loved Timmy Allen’s aggressiveness. I wish he could infect Tillman with the same.

UtahsMrSports
01-20-2019, 05:23 PM
When Sed is feeling it, the whole team feeds off of it. Cool to see. Allen seems to get better every game.

Scorcho
01-20-2019, 05:32 PM
We've looked pretty good against bad teams this season. We've generally looked pretty bad against good teams, with the exception of the Arizona road trip.

Still, it's fun when we look good.

Dont harsh my mellow Sancho. I'm lovin this retro style of Utah hoops. Put in a Rydalch.

UtahsMrSports
01-20-2019, 05:50 PM
We've looked pretty good against bad teams this season. We've generally looked pretty bad against good teams, with the exception of the Arizona road trip.

Still, it's fun when we look good.

Colorado is no tourney team, but they aren't bad either.

Old Standing ute
01-20-2019, 09:29 PM
Colorado only has 1senior—Namon Wright—an almost Ute, who was supposedly a big loss—he was no factor tonight.

Both Gach is really good—he is a point guard when he can pry the ball out of Sed’s hands. Makes really good set up passes—would have had 2-3 more assists if Jayce or Novak could finish a 2 foot shot.

He is a very good defender—& then there was his off the backboard set up dunk to TImmy A.

BUT the big news was history was made if you were present —more than PVD’s first dunk—-Jayce hit 4 nothing but net free throws in a row,
of course it was Headband (now with matching colors for the jersey) Jayce, so maybe that explains it.

SeattleUte
03-12-2019, 05:14 PM
https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/3137766002

LA Ute
03-12-2019, 06:30 PM
https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/3137766002

Look at the losers Larry's keeping company with:


Here are the five highest-paid coaches who are on track to miss the NCAA tournament

1. West Virginia's Bob Huggins

2. Utah's Larry Krystkowiak

3. Wichita State's Gregg Marshall

4. Indiana's Archie Miller

t-5. Georgia's Tom Crean

t-5. Texas' Shaka Smart

LA Ute
03-13-2019, 04:20 AM
I missed this article when it came out a few weeks ago:

Why is Kyle Whittingham so much more popular than Larry Krystkowiak? Here are five reasons Ute fans cite.

https://www.sltrib.com/sports/utah-utes/2019/02/19/why-is-kyle-whittingham/

UtahsMrSports
03-13-2019, 08:07 AM
https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/3137766002

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107048/

SeattleUte
03-13-2019, 08:40 AM
I missed this article when it came out a few weeks ago:

Why is Kyle Whittingham so much more popular than Larry Krystkowiak? Here are five reasons Ute fans cite.

https://www.sltrib.com/sports/utah-utes/2019/02/19/why-is-kyle-whittingham/

That's certainly not true here.

sancho
03-13-2019, 08:55 AM
I missed this article when it came out a few weeks ago:

Why is Kyle Whittingham so much more popular than Larry Krystkowiak? Here are five reasons Ute fans cite.

https://www.sltrib.com/sports/utah-utes/2019/02/19/why-is-kyle-whittingham/

I remember when Kurt was asking fans on Twitter for material for this article. I think it's Kurt's first real miss as a Utah beat reporter in the sense that it's obvious from all angles that Kyle is top national football coach. I like Larry, but to suggest that he's done anything comparable to what Kyle has done is ridiculous.

SeattleUte
03-13-2019, 09:37 AM
I remember when Kurt was asking fans on Twitter for material for this article. I think it's Kurt's first real miss as a Utah beat reporter in the sense that it's obvious from all angles that Kyle is top national football coach. I like Larry, but to suggest that he's done anything comparable to what Kyle has done is ridiculous.

Right. He doesn't mention 2008. Sports writers are so dumb. I can't think of an exception in the whole profession. And now with the Internet they're totally unnecessary.

LA Ute
03-13-2019, 09:59 AM
That's certainly not true here.

I disagree. We actually see many more people here expressing misgivings about Larry than about Kyle. You know that. I’m not a huge fan of Kyle’s style because it frustrates me, and I get grief for that.

The flaw in Kragthorpe’s piece is that it’s about coach popularity. That’s a dumb basis for judging a coach. The real test Utah fans should apply is the coach’s success in driving the U of U forward in that coach’s sport.

Just looking at records, as opposed to popularity, Kyle will not be matched by any other Utah football coach. He has steadly built the program over many years, especially since the PAC-12 era began. We all expected progress in that new era to take a while. Everyone knows it takes longer to make progress in football than it does in basketball, where the right coach can turn a program around very quickly. I’ve never liked Kyle’s uber-conservative style or the untouchable status he has here, but he gets results and he’s around now until he’s 64.

So as a Utes fan who likes Kyle and his successes a ton but doesn’t love everything he does, I’m more than happy to ride the horse we’re on and I will be at the Rose Bowl (or any other Utah bowl game) cheering wildly if he gets the Utes there.

Larry’s had his ups and downs and the jury is still out on him. Most of us are taking the “cautiously patient” approach with LK. But he has not built the program and made it his the way Kyle has with football.

LA Ute
04-01-2019, 09:18 PM
Jones transferring.

https://www.sltrib.com/sports/utah-utes/2019/04/02/report-charles-jones-jr/

This is no surprise at this point, but it does look like another miss by Larry. How concerned should we be about this? Is it typical for JC transfers to fall short like this? Should the coaches who recruited him have known this was coming? I don’t know. What does everyone think?

UtahsMrSports
04-01-2019, 09:38 PM
Jones transferring.

https://www.sltrib.com/sports/utah-utes/2019/04/02/report-charles-jones-jr/

This is no surprise at this point, but it does look like another miss by Larry. How concerned should we be about this? Is it typical for JC transfers to fall short like this? Should the coaches who recruited him have known this was coming? I don’t know. What does everyone think?

I feel like larry hits on jc guys more often than not. For whatever reason, cjj didn't fit here. Im glad we can now take a chance on someone else in the hope that they'll be a better fit. I wish chuck the best.

Also, first wave transfers tend to be announced all together (JoJo and dd in 17, Reyes and I Wright I. In 16 etc). Im hopeful this is it for transfers.