I Wish I Knew How to Quit You - The BYU Sports Thread

[Senioritis]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwlYo8EYTWI

In many ways, we are inseparably linked to The BYU, and always will be. We come from many different levels of interest/obsession regarding our jorts wearing, socially awkward brothers to the south, but I believe we are all somewhere in the process of remission. With how severely Lavell Edwards treated many of our childhoods, and the fervor by which many us hated BYU with the white hot fire of a thousand suns, discussion of BYU is inevitable. We wish we knew how to quit them, but we can't.

However, I think it would be lovely if we had one thread for all things BYU, and this category seems the best spot for it seeing as how their high point in basketball over the last 35 years was making it clear to the Sweet Sixteen one time. The purpose of this thread is so we don't have to be embarrassed by our obsession, but we can keep it well organized in one place. That way, we can keep discussion of the zealot Captain Bronconi, the pug nosed Dave Rose, and the Worst Canadian Since Anne Murray (Greg Wrubell) mostly in this thread, and not scattered all over the board like a chimpanzee's well-flung poo.

So, this is the thread. Don't be afraid to let your hatred show. If you need to binge, binge. If you need to purge, then by all means, purge.

Just a few things to remember:

1. Use of the word Zoob is appropriate, when necessary.
2. Lighthearted is always better than super bitter.
3. If you wear white suspenders to football games, feel free to have a big glass of shut the hell up.

[mpfunk]

I hate BYU for backtracking on Spirit, Honor, and Tradition for every game so quickly. It would have given me great joy to have that smack talk for the entire year.

[Devildog]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCbuU14cB_c

[USS Utah]

Who?

[LA Ute]

Yeah. What happened with that? I see they are going with the gimmicky jerseys, and now they have bailed.

They rarely change course on things. It seems like they would rather deal with the mocking rather than admit they were wrong at times. The Quest is a great example.

Why this time?

To his credit, I think, Bronco appears to have owned the mistake, but he still looks like a goofball:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUH0xX6VshI

[SoCalPat]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCbuU14cB_c

You know, having Max Hall in this video twice really underscores and solidifies what a shitbucket of a video this really is.

[LA Ute]

You know, having Max Hall in this video twice really underscores and solidifies what a s***bucket of a video this really is.

I love that video. It's either a brilliant parody or a perfect manifestation of the most insufferable attitudes of the worst segment of BYU fans. Maybe both.

[Devildog]

I love that video. It's either a brilliant parody or a perfect manifestation of the most insufferable attitudes of BYU fans. Maybe both.

Fixed it for ya, LA.

They are the most self-righteous, pious, holier than thou, sanctimonious, group of hypocrites and dorks you could ever see.

Well... that's just like, my... opinion, man.

[USS Utah]

To his credit, I think, Bronco appears to have owned the mistake, but he still looks like a goofball:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUH0xX6VshI

This is a side Bronco I don't think I have seen very often, and to be honest, I kind of liked it. There was some self-deprecation, and that always works.

[LA Ute]

This is a side Bronco I don't think I have seen very often, and to be honest, I kind of liked it. There was some self-deprecation, and that always works.

It might be the most "normal" I've ever seen him.

[SoCalPat]

It might be the most "normal" I've ever seen him.

The Boise State game last year was symbolic of Bronco's entire career at BYU. Yeah, he's a bit of a dork in front of a mike. Who isn't? But you couldn't tell me, for the first 58 minutes of that game, that Bronco's demeanor didn't single-handedly keep his team in the game. If I knew nothing about Bronco and my team had a coaching vacancy, and I saw the first 58 minutes of that game, I would have been all-in on hiring him.

Then you get to the decision to go for 2, which much like last week's decision, made zero sense at all. It was Bronco acting alone without giving any thought to alternatives. That kind of single-mindedness is good for the locker room and building your program, but it's bad when it's put in front of the public without consulation of any kind.

[Scorcho]

Brady Propping! LOL, That is all.

[chrisrenrut]

Brady Propping! LOL, That is all.

I made the mistake of wasting 20 minutes listening to that verbal train wreck. Everyone involved should be embarrased, but I would bet they all came out of it feeling like they accomplished something. Pretty sad.

[LA Ute]

I made the mistake of wasting 20 minutes listening to that verbal train wreck. Everyone involved should be embarrased, but I would bet they all came out of it feeling like they accomplished something. Pretty sad.

I didn't listen to the interview but the comments on the radio station web site were great. Lots of BYU fans saying, "You go, Brady!"

[UtahsMrSports]

I didn't listen to the interview but the comments on the radio station web site were great. Lots of BYU fans saying, "You go, Brady!"

Strange interview for sure. As I listened, I couldn't help but agree with Poppinga at first. I feel that Gordon Monson does go for the low hanging fruit when he knows itll get a lot of pageviews. Even though I agreed with his take on Bronco, I still find his style somewhat annoying. So I didn't mind that. But it was as if someone flipped a lightswitch. All of a sudden poppinga is asking about Gordon's religious affiliation and level of activity on the air. (EXTREMELY inappropriate to say the least; but I wouldnt expect most BYU faithful to acknowledge that). Here's my other issue with Poppinga that Monson tried to bring up: In regards to Bronco using the BoM at his presser........if you want to use that in your own time to teach your players, by all means do it. However, I find it inappropriate at best (sacreligious at worst) to make that display in a press conference. And this is from someone who lists the BoM as the most influential in my life.

I was glad that once Brady was done with his rant about how Bronco was justified in using the BoM, that Spence did the right thing by just thanking him for his time and dismissing him.

Finally, afterwards Brady took the low road and resorted to the "I cant have a conversation with him because he never played organized sports". BS.

[FountainOfUte]

I would bet they all came out of it feeling like they accomplished something.

Totally. That's the exact same sense I get.

Let me say this about the local media. It's easy to bag on them; they're just regular guys with flaws and idiosyncrasies that get broadcast daily through mass media. But can you imagine having to manipulate the Utah/BYU rivalry like some puppeteer as your career? It might be fun for the first five seconds, but quickly it would absolutely ruin my love of sports. A lot of young cocky guys come into this market, do their time, then move on. But guys like Monsen, Bolerjack, David James and others who've planted their flag in this market must just have a twitch in their eye when they look at themselves in the mirror in the morning. They have their "time to make the donuts" moment like we all do before heading to work, but imagine the daily circus they know their headed into. They willingly have to sell out to this market, simultaneously poking and stroking BYU and Utah fans just to keep up an audience. I assume they all started out as pure sports fans like you and me, but they've made sports their business and now they have to feed the beast. How depressing. Imagine coming to loathe something you once had a passion for. What a disappointment.

Of course I'm biased, and I know we Ute fans have our crazy, suspender-wearing idiots among us, but dealing with the BYU fanbase must be enough to make a man want to take his own life. Again, while they're easy to pan and make caricatures of I have a small bit of sympathy for local media and guys like Bronco. Bronco reminds me of a beaten dog who you walk up to to pet and he pisses the floor. And it's not his fault. That's just the brand of crazy he's dealing with from his fanbase and boosters. "Normal" fanbases are wacked out and psycho enough. But add in the religiosity of the BYU dynamic and it becomes Crazytown. I guess he could always just walk away. He's had his chances to leave but he chooses to stay, so I don't know how to account for that.

Anyway, what a mess that whole interview was. I can't wish next Thursday here soon enough. I'm done with the three-ring circus; it's time for some actual games.

[LA Ute]

Totally. That's the exact same sense I get.

Let me say this about the local media. It's easy to bag on them; they're just regular guys with flaws and idiosyncrasies that get broadcast daily through mass media. But can you imagine having to manipulate the Utah/BYU rivalry like some puppeteer as your career? It might be fun for the first five seconds, but quickly it would absolutely ruin my love of sports. A lot of young cocky guys come into this market, do their time, then move on. But guys like Monsen, Bolerjack, David James and others who've planted their flag in this market must just have a twitch in their eye when they look at themselves in the mirror in the morning. They have their "time to make the donuts" moment like we all do before heading to work, but imagine the daily circus they know their headed into. They willingly have to sell out to this market, simultaneously poking and stroking BYU and Utah fans just to keep up an audience. I assume they all started out as pure sports fans like you and me, but they've made sports their business and now they have to feed the beast. How depressing. Imagine coming to loathe something you once had a passion for. What a disappointment.

Of course I'm biased, and I know we Ute fans have our crazy, suspender-wearing idiots among us, but dealing with the BYU fanbase must be enough to make a man want to take his own life. Again, while they're easy to pan and make caricatures of I have a small bit of sympathy for local media and guys like Bronco. Bronco reminds me of a beaten dog who you walk up to to pet and he pisses the floor. And it's not his fault. That's just the brand of crazy he's dealing with from his fanbase and boosters. "Normal" fanbases are wacked out and psycho enough. But add in the religiosity of the BYU dynamic and it becomes Crazytown. I guess he could always just walk away. He's had his chances to leave but he chooses to stay, so I don't know how to account for that.

Anyway, what a mess that whole interview was. I can't wish next Thursday here soon enough. I'm done with the three-ring circus; it's time for some actual games.

+1!

[UTEopia]

Guys like Popinga and their stupid correlation of BYU to the Kingdom of God (and unfortunately I truly believe that a large percentage of the fan base believes the same thing on some level or another) is enough for me to be quite happy to not compete against them on any field or court or wherever ever, ever again. I am a participating member of the LDS Church and have a degree from BYU and I just don't understand that type of thinking. Yet it is engrained in their culture. I was told by a friend of a current player that after one workout this past winter Bronco gathered the troops and started to tell them that if they all lived better off the field they would be blessed with the realization of their football goals. I happen to disagree with this type of thinking, but some people lap it up. I think it is a turn off to most people who are not LDS and many who are and is ultimately a detriment to the mission of the LDS Church. I have always believed that the mission of BYU is not to do missionary work in the traditional sense, but rather a place for rallying the already converted.

Although I have lived in Utah the majority of my life, the years that I spent living outside the State were refreshing because nobody gives a crap about the LDS Church one way or another and so it was never an issue in any part of my life other than my religious activity. In Utah it permeates the fabric of everything and becomes the focal point for so much chest thumping and finger pointing that it becomes almost nauseating.

Anyway, I am one person who will not miss playing them one bit the next two years. I will try to avoid the 365 days of constant comparison and whining by the media that we are not playing them. I accomplish this by not listening to the local media and not reading their coverage. I will listen to Bill and Hans on some days and will read stuff by Dirk Facer, but I read more by Jon Wilner than anyone else to get my PAC 12 coverage.

[Joe Public]

Go Cougars!

[Two Utes]

Guys like Popinga and their stupid correlation of BYU to the Kingdom of God (and unfortunately I truly believe that a large percentage of the fan base believes the same thing on some level or another) is enough for me to be quite happy to not compete against them on any field or court or wherever ever, ever again. I am a participating member of the LDS Church and have a degree from BYU and I just don't understand that type of thinking. Yet it is engrained in their culture. I was told by a friend of a current player that after one workout this past winter Bronco gathered the troops and started to tell them that if they all lived better off the field they would be blessed with the realization of their football goals. I happen to disagree with this type of thinking, but some people lap it up. I think it is a turn off to most people who are not LDS and many who are and is ultimately a detriment to the mission of the LDS Church. I have always believed that the mission of BYU is not to do missionary work in the traditional sense, but rather a place for rallying the already converted.

Although I have lived in Utah the majority of my life, the years that I spent living outside the State were refreshing because nobody gives a crap about the LDS Church one way or another and so it was never an issue in any part of my life other than my religious activity. In Utah it permeates the fabric of everything and becomes the focal point for so much chest thumping and finger pointing that it becomes almost nauseating.

Anyway, I am one person who will not miss playing them one bit the next two years. I will try to avoid the 365 days of constant comparison and whining by the media that we are not playing them. I accomplish this by not listening to the local media and not reading their coverage. I will listen to Bill and Hans on some days and will read stuff by Dirk Facer, but I read more by Jon Wilner than anyone else to get my PAC 12 coverage.

He's telling the truth and therein lies the problem. The BYU administration (and whoever they are reporting to) intends to connect BYU football to the Mission of the Church. Just because Bronco is blatantly doing this doesn't mean he is making any misrepresentations. That is BYU football. If it offends Mormons who support other schools, then, quite honestly they need to look at the reasons why it is offensive because it shouldn't be offensive to any active, true beleiving Mormon. Popinga's comments are ridiculous but truthful. If that makes anybody's butt hurt, then that person need to do some soul searching

[Devildog]

Here is a link to the conversation if anyone has the 17+ minutes to waste.

http://1280thezone.com/index.php/audio/listen/the_big_show_byu_football_brady_poppinga_former_co ugars_lb

To me it is just more of the same.

Perspective and points of view are gonna be different.

I will say that from my point of view, Poppinga asking Monson about his own standing in the LDS church came across to me as condescending. As if, Monson would "get it" if he were more righteous. Universal truths and all.

[Senioritis]

Really, I have a lot of respect for fans of the BYU football. What a pisser to have to wade through all of the chicanery to get to the actual sports of it.

They talk incessantly about the how Board of Trustees is keeping them down, they conjure up neverending rumors about the alcohol-related activities of 18 year old recruits, and they force themselves into rabid excitement about what channel their games are on, rather than who their opponent is. (Tangentially, I would like to say here that the team does a great job of adhering to the policy of playing the games on the date and time at which they are scheduled!)

Goatnapper spent like five seasons working feverishly to convince himself that Captain Bronconi wasn't a weirdo, he was just acting like a weirdo to convince his genuine weirdo overlords that he was one of them, and in such a way he could handle honor code violations on his own.

How tiring. I mean, good for them, but how tiring.

[UTEopia]

He's telling the truth and therein lies the problem. The BYU administration (and whoever they are reporting to) intends to connect BYU football to the Mission of the Church. Just because Bronco is blatantly doing this doesn't mean he is making any misrepresentations. That is BYU football. If it offends Mormons who support other schools, then, quite honestly they need to look at the reasons why it is offensive because it shouldn't be offensive to any active, true beleiving Mormon. Popinga's comments are ridiculous but truthful. If that makes anybody's butt hurt, then that person need to do some soul searching


Are you saying that anyone who claims to be an active Mormon who does not agree that BYU = The Kingdom of God is off base, because that is what your statement indicates to me and apparently that was what Poppinga was trying to get at by questioning Monson about his religious activity. If Monson was only an active Mormon he would understand.

You are probably correct about what they want the message to be. I guess my problem is that I disagree with the overt association not because it offends me but because I believe it is detrimental to the actual mission. If you go to the communities where BYU plays on a regular basis I bet you will find that next to the actual rival of that school, BYU is the most loathed opponent. How does that further the mission of the LDS Church? Now BYU fans love to say, well that is because we beat them all the time. While there may be some truth to that, my experience from living in San Diego is that they are the most loathed because the fan base is made up of a large percentage of people who are arrogant, self-righteous pricks who think they are better than anyone else.

[Two Utes]

Are you saying that anyone who claims to be an active Mormon who does not agree that BYU = The Kingdom of God is off base, because that is what your statement indicates to me and apparently that was what Poppinga was trying to get at by questioning Monson about his religious activity. If Monson was only an active Mormon he would understand.

You are probably correct about what they want the message to be. I guess my problem is that I disagree with the overt association not because it offends me but because I believe it is detrimental to the actual mission. If you go to the communities where BYU plays on a regular basis I bet you will find that next to the actual rival of that school, BYU is the most loathed opponent. How does that further the mission of the LDS Church? Now BYU fans love to say, well that is because we beat them all the time. While there may be some truth to that, my experience from living in San Diego is that they are the most loathed because the fan base is made up of a large percentage of people who are arrogant, self-righteous pricks who think they are better than anyone else.

My point is simple--the people who the BYU guys report to are telling Bronco to tie the two together and to set apart BYU football from the others. He's doing it. Popinga is simply telling it like it is. The leaders want this. Don't shoot the messengers (Popinga and Bronconi)

[Devildog]

the fan base is made up of a large percentage of people who are arrogant, self-righteous pricks who think they are better than anyone else.

My favorite is when they say... He's a drinker, but he is still a good guy.

:drunk: Well... thanks.

[Two Utes]

My point is simple--the people who the BYU guys report to are telling Bronco to tie the two together and to set apart BYU football apart from the others. He's doing it. Popinga is simply telling it like it is. The leaders want this. Don't shoot the messengers (Popinga and Bronconi)

And the last thing I'll say about this: I've heard 100 times the old saying "it's not the church it's the people in the church" In this instance, it's the church.

[Devildog]

If they were really serious about BYU football as a missionary tool... They should get the word out to their fans to stop all their douche-baggery. That's gotta be dickin' up the effort, ya know.

Are they going to bash people into conversion?

They talk a good game, but their actions say something else.

It's like a gay orgy over there, I guess it's cool for some folks... but I have no interest.

[LA Ute]

This statement by Jeffrey Holland, a former BYU president and current LDS Apostle, is interesting by itself, but the responses from BYU fans are even more interesting. This is from a CES fireside talk he gave from the Dixie College campus (http://www.lds.org/broadcasts/article/ces-devotionals/2012/01/israel-israel-god-is-calling?lang=eng):


A few years ago a young friend of mine—a returned missionary—was on one of the college basketball teams in Utah. He was a great young man and a very good ballplayer, but he wasn’t playing as much as he hoped he would. His particular talents and skills weren’t exactly what that team needed at that stage of its development or his. That happens in athletics. So, with the full support and best wishes of his coaches and his teammates, my young friend transferred to another school where he hoped he might contribute a little more.

As fate would have it, things clicked at the new school, and my friend soon became a starter. And wouldn’t you know it—the schedule (determined years before these events transpired) had this young man returning to play against his former team in Salt Lake City's then-named Delta Center.

What happened in that game has bothered me to this day, and I am seizing this unusual moment to get it off my chest. The vitriolic abuse that poured out of the stands on this young man’s head that night—a Latter-day Saint, returned missionary, newlywed who paid his tithing, served in the elder’s quorum, gave charitable service to the youth in his community, and waited excitedly for a new baby coming to him and his wife—what was said and done and showered upon him that night, and on his wife and their families, should not have been experienced by any human being anywhere anytime, whatever his sport, whatever his university, or whatever his personal decisions had been about either of them.

But here is the worst part. The coach of this visiting team, something of a legend in the profession, turned to him after a spectacular game and said: “What is going on here? You are the hometown boy who has made good. These are your people. These are your friends.” But worst of all, he then said in total bewilderment, “Aren’t most of these people members of your church?”

...let’s finish the basketball incident. The day after that game, when there was some public reckoning and a call to repentance over the incident, one young man said, in effect: “Listen. We are talking about basketball here, not Sunday School. If you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. We pay good money to see these games. We can act the way we want. We check our religion at the door.”

“ We check our religion at the door ”? Lesson number one for the establishment of Zion in the 21st century: You never “check your religion at the door.” Not ever.

My young friends, that kind of discipleship cannot be—it is not discipleship at all. As the prophet Alma has taught the young women of the Church to declare every week in their Young Women theme, we are “to stand as witnesses of God at all times and in all things, and in all places that ye may be in,” not just some of the time, in a few places, or when our team has a big lead.

I saw lots of BYU fans, on two message boards, say Elder Holland is wrong. That phenomenon points up the schizophrenia among many BYU fans: on the one hand, they think their team has special status in God's eyes, and yet they don't have to adjust their behavior or their expectations of their teams. It's very interesting.

Look, I am active LDS and I recognize that from an LDS perspective BYU does many wonderful things for my church and for many people. My dad is a BYU grad and so are my brother and a a bunch of extended family, as well as many of my very close friends. But BYU sports are not the church. In fact, I am convinced that all BYU's Board of Trustees want out of BYU sports is that they reflect well on the church -- not that they produce national championships. If BYU were like the military service academies -- tough teams that stand for something honorable, but don't win big bowl games or NCs or even have winning seasons every year -- I think the Board would be happy.

But the fan base ties the athletic teams to the church's mission and a lot of bad things come from that. At the same time, many in the fan base don't want to be called out on any bad behavior. It's a weird dynamic. I am glad to be a Utah fan and just to cheer for a university I am proud of, without all that religious baggage.

[FountainOfUte]

The BYU administration (and whoever they are reporting to) intends to connect BYU football to the Mission of the Church.

Problem is, there is a broad way to interpret that. I mean, was that charge any different during the LaVell era? And yet BYU football had a MUCH different feel back then. They just went out with their "Ah, shucks!" persona and played straight up football. Sometimes winning, sometimes losing, but it wasn't directly connected to "living right on and off the field" and all of that stuff that's sprouted up in the last decade. The missionary aspect of the football team was just putting those darn weird Mormons in a normal-as-apple-pie scenario -- the American football field -- and showing the world that Mormons put their cleats on one foot at a time, too. The "lesson," trite as this sounds is that "Hey, for being weird, Mormons are mostly normal!"

The hope, I always thought, was that BYU's actions would speak for themselves as to the values of the LDS church; THAT would be the message. It was about presenting one of the many normal sides of Mormonism. Now that's all been torn down with the Bronco brand of BYU football.

There's a faction of members in the church that wears "Mormon peculiarity" as a badge of honor and they love to see that reflected by BYU's football team. I would argue though that infusing that overt peculiarity into the football team is having the opposite effect toward the school's/team's mission. Let the gospel be weird. Let the football be normal.



I guess my problem is that I disagree with the overt association not because it offends me but because I believe it is detrimental to the actual mission.

Yes. This ^^^.

[Scorcho]

I think you can trace some of this “Zoobish” type behavior to some norms within the LDS Church. Growing up in the church I was taught that we were NEVER to question our leaders, whether it was our Bishop, EQ President or Young Men’s Leader whatever they said in the capacity of their leadership was unquestioning gospel. The reason given is that they were called of God, and are given personal revelation in accordance with their calling. I think that works well in most religious settings, but is scary dangerous outside of it.

It seems like Brady Poppinga (or as the kids like to call him ... B-POP), Roger Reid and others take this principle to an extreme. They transfer this principle to other areas in their lives that are closely related to religion. Whether it’s a professor at an LDS Religious Institution, a friendly LDS financial planner/advisor MLM type (with guaranteed 25% annual investment returns), or a head coach of the football team, they view a similar line of LDS Church Authority (when none exists). I think that is why people like B-POP or others are vehemently defending Bronco’s position on coaching decisions or jersey’s, he’s been conditioned to not question those in authority especially when it has any religious correlation.

[Solon]

And the last thing I'll say about this: I've heard 100 times the old saying "it's not the church it's the people in the church" In this instance, it's the church.

I agree with this. It's another case of the byu and the church that runs it trying to strike a balance between competitiveness in the world, and standing apart as a spiritual institution. We see it elsewhere as the byu tries to be both a university (with all the humanistic secular baggage that brings) as well as a flagship for promoting LDS values.

To some extent, I believe the leadership has made its decision to be a stand-apart institution: emphasizing spiritual growth over W-L records, or the accolades of the Academy. In a way, this is commendable. On the other hand, the mission has not been clearly enough articulated from the top to help the fans, members, and academic community understand what the overall vision and mission are. As in so many other areas, the LDS church seems to be trying to take both forks in the road for as long as it possibly can, although it ultimately has chosen morals & merits over Wins - Losses & Academic Freedom.

A pretty sharp rabbi once said something about not being able to serve both God & Mammon, but I think his exact comments were correlated by a team of lawyers and PR officers.

[sancho]

Look, I am active LDS and I recognize that from an LDS perspective BYU does many wonderful things for my church and for many people.

I think you overstate the value of the place. If it were to close tomorrow, neither the Church, the gospel, nor the plan would suffer all that much.


cheer for a university I am proud of, without all that religious baggage.

Religious baggage is a heavy load. Can't image trying to tote it around all over my sports fandom.

I don't believe that Church leaders consider football important to the church's mission. Most Church leaders I know are too smart for that. I'm sure some like it as fans. Some are surely bothered by the distraction of it all. Most probably figure that it's more important to the mission of the university than to the mission of the Church.

[LA Ute]

To some extent, I believe the leadership has made its decision to be a stand-apart institution: emphasizing spiritual growth over W-L records, or the accolades of the Academy. In a way, this is commendable. On the other hand, the mission has not been clearly enough articulated from the top to help the fans, members, and academic community understand what the overall vision and mission are. As in so many other areas, the LDS church seems to be trying to take both forks in the road for as long as it possibly can, although it ultimately has chosen morals & merits over Wins - Losses & Academic Freedom.

I really don't think the Q12 and the FP place any importance on BYU winning championships. I do wonder why they haven't made that more clear. Comments like Jeff Holland's below make me think they are edging towards being more open about it. For example, here's Dieter Uchtdorf in General Conference, 2010 (http://www.lds.org/general-conference/2010/10/pride-and-the-priesthood?lang=eng):


Perhaps there is no better laboratory to observe the sin of pride than the world of sports. I have always loved participating in and attending sporting events. But I confess there are times when the lack of civility in sports is embarrassing. How is it that normally kind and compassionate human beings can be so intolerant and filled with hatred toward an opposing team and its fans?

I have watched sports fans vilify and demonize their rivals. They look for any flaw and magnify it. They justify their hatred with broad generalizations and apply them to everyone associated with the other team. When ill fortune afflicts their rival, they rejoice.

Something tells me he is not talking about Manchester United fans. Less than a year after that General Conference talk, he did show up at RES with Jamie Whittingham (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-hHWTUbPbqxs/TnLBrZ03r9I/AAAAAAAAFGQ/D9tEm1A2J2g/s1600/UchdorftFamily.jpg), after all. Coincidence? I think not! :D

741

[Solon]

I really don't think the Q12 and the FP place any importance on BYU winning championships. I do wonder why they haven't made that more clear. Comments like Jeff Holland's below make me think they are edging towards being more open about it.

I totally agree. It's just not that important in the big scheme of things.
As an educator, I would love to see more schools leaving behind the arms-race of college athletics. At the very least, I would like to see those dollars go to participation over competition. Millions of dollars are spent on a relatively tiny portion of the student-body. The justification arguments are dicey at best (they bring school pride, etc.). Most programs lose money, esp. at the non-BCS level.

It's refreshing to see a university de-emphasizing sports. On the other hand, they have a $50 billion HD truck. It's a mixed message at best.




741

Great photo.

[OrangeUte]

I can't quit on byu because stuff like this is so awesome and makes me laugh!

This is my rivalry so that makes it the best. I can't give it up and I won't because it is too much fun!

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/23/ymy5ype3.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/23/ga6a9avu.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/23/u8u2ezyr.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/23/aze4a7um.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/23/arusapup.jpg

[Katy Lied]

Religious baggage is a heavy load. Can't image trying to tote it around all over my sports fandom.



You're mistaken if you think that religious baggage is not carried by ute fans (LDS or not). Last time I was in the Rose Bowl (the place, not the event) watching Utah vs. UCLA, did I not hear "Go back to Provo" chants? Did I not hear mormon jokes?

[LA Ute]

You're mistaken if you think that religious baggage is not carried by ute fans (LDS or not). Last time I was in the Rose Bowl (the place, not the event) watching Utah vs. UCLA, did I not hear "Go back to Provo" chants? Did I not hear mormon jokes?

We do get that. I heard a Mormon crack from UCLA fans (young, probably a bit drunk) after the 2005 game at the Rose Bowl. I think it was about Joseph Smith. I didn't hear anything at last fall's game. I think it is there but at a vastly lower level than it is for BYU, sort of a lingering provincial bias on the part of the uninformed. Over time people will figure out the distinction between the two universities. I hope.

EDIT: By "religious baggage" I was referring to the way a fan perceives his/her own team (e.g., many BYU fans' schizophrenia) and the way the program is run (e.g., Bronco, the Honor Code, the BOT).

[sancho]

You're mistaken if you think that religious baggage is not carried by ute fans (LDS or not). Last time I was in the Rose Bowl (the place, not the event) watching Utah vs. UCLA, did I not hear "Go back to Provo" chants? Did I not hear mormon jokes?

True, I guess I meant self-inflicted baggage. The baggage of believing that God is pulling for your team. That kind of stuff. Believing that the success of the team is essential (or even related) to the success of your faith. Believing that your team does things on a higher spiritual plane. The burden of being heckled is small relative to the burden of carrying around false ideas.

[UtahsMrSports]

This statement by Jeffrey Holland, a former BYU president and current LDS Apostle, is interesting by itself, but the responses from BYU fans are even more interesting. This is from a CES fireside talk he gave from the Dixie College campus (http://www.lds.org/broadcasts/article/ces-devotionals/2012/01/israel-israel-god-is-calling?lang=eng):



I saw lots of BYU fans, on two message boards, say Elder Holland is wrong. That phenomenon points up the schizophrenia among many BYU fans: on the one hand, they think their team has special status in God's eyes, and yet they don't have to adjust their behavior or their expectations of their teams. It's very interesting.

Look, I am active LDS and I recognize that from an LDS perspective BYU does many wonderful things for my church and for many people. My dad is a BYU grad and so are my brother and a a bunch of extended family, as well as many of my very close friends. But BYU sports are not the church. In fact, I am convinced that all BYU's Board of Trustees want out of BYU sports is that they reflect well on the church -- not that they produce national championships. If BYU were like the military service academies -- tough teams that stand for something honorable, but don't win big bowl games or NCs or even have winning seasons every year -- I think the Board would be happy.

But the fan base ties the athletic teams to the church's mission and a lot of bad things come from that. At the same time, many in the fan base don't want to be called out on any bad behavior. It's a weird dynamic. I am glad to be a Utah fan and just to cheer for a university I am proud of, without all that religious baggage.

I was at this game. BYU v Oklahoma State in 2004. daniel bobbick. A friend invited me to come and I went and of course cheered for the cowboys. I don't want to stand up on my high horse and condemn these people, but at the same time, what Elder Holland said was accurate. The vitriol and filth that was spewed was incredible to me. And as he pointed out; this was an active LDS kid who did everything right and left because he wanted more playing time.

[FountainOfUte]

I was at this game. BYU v Oklahoma State in 2004. daniel bobbick. A friend invited me to come and I went and of course cheered for the cowboys. I don't want to stand up on my high horse and condemn these people, but at the same time, what Elder Holland said was accurate. The vitriol and filth that was spewed was incredible to me. And as he pointed out; this was an active LDS kid who did everything right and left because he wanted more playing time.

I was wondering who that was. I don't remember Bobbick. I initially thought Holland was talking about Trent Whiting. Once he referenced a game at the Delta Center where BYU and Utah have not played in a very long time. I figured it was somebody else but didn't know who.

[UTEopia]

Too bad he said it in St. George at Dixie College (weird) and not at the BYU.

[Senioritis]

Just wanted to say that Nate Cooper can die of gonorrhea and roast in hell.

Happy Friday, brothers!

[tooblue]

And the last thing I'll say about this: I've heard 100 times the old saying "it's not the church it's the people in the church" In this instance, it's the church.

This entire thread is embarassing. Utes and cougars are cut from the same cloth. The more you mock the zoobs of the BYU fan base the more you solidify your utter zootness. The more you try to tie Bronco's quirkiness to being a precondition of the LDS churches mandate for the football team at BYU the more your reveal your own irrational insecurities.

Both fan bases are naive and rediculous. The media in Utah only exacerbates the problem. Typically, at this time of year I tune in to Utah radio via the Web to feed a deeply ingrained football fetish I just can't quit. I can't do it this year due to the collective idiocy I tuned into last year. To hear them talk Utah was the new Alabama. At least those that covered BYU were realistic about their place in the football universe ... Well, kinda sorta.

Sorry Senioritis but getting giddy about what channel your team plays on is akin to zoots raving about being the kids who got invited to the junior prom but only because the socal schools needed a sucker to help pay for the limo. By the way I would've loved to watch Utah on tv last year, at least once ... I won't hold my breath waiting this season.

Two Utes, I love you like a brother cause well, we are brothers. But your comments above make you sound like a dip shit. Bronco is just wired that way.

Utah is the new Arizona. Brad Rock stole my line.

[LA Ute]

We're just having fun, tooblue. The pathology of this rivalry is complex and fascinating and we are trying to make sense of it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

[tooblue]

We're just having fun, tooblue. The pathology of this rivalry is complex and fascinating and we are trying to make sense of it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

It's all fun and games until some one gets their eye poked out. :-)

[Jarid in Cedar]

It's all fun and games until some one gets their eye poked out. :-)


That is why there are doctors around.

[LA Ute]

Now this is what we're talking about:

Commentary: BYU and Utah football programs aren't all that different

http://m.deseretnews.com/article/865585122/Commentary-BYU-and-Utah-football-programs-arent-all-that-different.html

It is inconceivable that such a piece would ever appear in the LA Times about USC and UCLA, or in the San Francisco Chronicle about Stanford and Cal, or...pick a rivalry.

Like I said, it's a pathology.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

[USS Utah]

The more you mock the zoobs of the BYU fan base the more you solidify your utter zootness.

What does it mean if I completely ignore them, or say nice things about Bronco?

[LA Ute]

What does it mean if I completely ignore them, or say nice things about Bronco?

I think it means you have a healthy attitude. I personally think Bronco's just a guy trying his best to do a difficult job the way he's been asked to do it.

[sancho]

I think it means you have a healthy attitude. I personally think Bronco's just a guy trying his best to do a difficult job the way he's been asked to do it.

I disagree. At the very least, he's a weird guy.

[Mormon Red Death]

This entire thread is embarassing. Utes and cougars are cut from the same cloth. The more you mock the zoobs of the BYU fan base the more you solidify your utter zootness. The more you try to tie Bronco's quirkiness to being a precondition of the LDS churches mandate for the football team at BYU the more your reveal your own irrational insecurities.

Both fan bases are naive and rediculous. The media in Utah only exacerbates the problem. Typically, at this time of year I tune in to Utah radio via the Web to feed a deeply ingrained football fetish I just can't quit. I can't do it this year due to the collective idiocy I tuned into last year. To hear them talk Utah was the new Alabama. At least those that covered BYU were realistic about their place in the football universe ... Well, kinda sorta.

Sorry Senioritis but getting giddy about what channel your team plays on is akin to zoots raving about being the kids who got invited to the junior prom but only because the socal schools needed a sucker to help pay for the limo. By the way I would've loved to watch Utah on tv last year, at least once ... I won't hold my breath waiting this season.

Two Utes, I love you like a brother cause well, we are brothers. But your comments above make you sound like a dip shit. Bronco is just wired that way.

Utah is the new Arizona. Brad Rock stole my line.

Well you are in Canada. I watched every game in hd last year from Michigan.

We are sorry you guys are not part of one of the bigger more important conferences. If you have to think we only got invited because they "needed help to pay the limo" to help you sleep thats fine.

Hey you guys would have been in the big 12 if it wasn't for the governor who hates Mormons. Heck you guys would be in right now if it wasn't That being independent was so much better.

There does that help?

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

[LA Ute]

I disagree. At the very least, he's a weird guy.

A fair characterization, but a little harsh. The kind of guy who's willing to do what Bronco's been asked to do is always going to be a little dorky. I don't think he's a bad guy, although I do wonder about the head shots BYU players take. He could stop that. Why doesn't he?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[jrj84105]

This entire thread is embarassing. Utes and cougars are cut from the same cloth.
Yes. Except you guys were cut with a broken, one-handled pair of safety scissors.

[tooblue]

Well you are in Canada. I watched every game in hd last year from Michigan.

We are sorry you guys are not part of one of the bigger more important conferences. If you have to think we only got invited because they "needed help to pay the limo" to help you sleep thats fine.

Hey you guys would have been in the big 12 if it wasn't for the governor who hates Mormons. Heck you guys would be in right now if it wasn't That being independent was so much better.

There does that help?

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

I guess I need to remind you that technically my "grey market" satellite dish is located at your house in Michigan. We watch Amercan programming in the tooblue home. What channel were the Ute games on again?

Wooooo HD Internet streaming is the bomb ... Well, not quite yet. Of course what has helping to pay for the limo gotten you? I never had to wonder where to find the BYU game last year. Hades, I could've seen every BYU game via Canadian programming last season!

I'm beginning to wonder if Utah really is the new Arizona. Maybe more like the new Washington State.

Lol ... Whatever helps you sleep at night bucko.

[tooblue]

Yes. Except you guys were cut with a broken, one-handled pair of safety scissors.

Yup. Rough hewn, tough and comfortable in our own skin. Sounds about right.

[LA Ute]

I'm beginning to wonder if Utah really is the new Arizona. Maybe more like the new Washington State.

Hey, you tried that "Utah will be Washington State" smack way back when Utah first got into the PAC-12. You can't switch to "Utah will be Arizona" and then switch back to the WSU line. It's a violation of Rule 93.20zx. If you want your grey market collusion with Utah fans to continue without interruption you're going to have to shape up.

Fortunately for you, we do not report first offenses here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

[Jarid in Cedar]

and comfortable in our own skin. .

Ok this may be the funniest thing I have seen posted about Y fans.

[sancho]

A fair characterization, but a little harsh.

You are right. Weird is not the right word. He's always saying things about how BYU is the only place where spirituality can be nurtured. He either believes this, in which case he's got a distorted view of things, or he feels like this is his best angle with recruits, in which case he's something of a liar.


The kind of guy who's willing to do what Bronco's been asked to do is always going to be a little dorky.

I don't know. Plenty of other people have done it without being at all like Bronco.

[tooblue]

Ok this may be the funniest thing I have seen posted about Y fans.

I thought it was funny too but hey, since I am a Y fan and we are incredibly resourceful I just rolled with it ... You can blame your Ute comrad for the poor metaphor in the first place.

[jrj84105]

746
And I thought it was the Yahoo logo all this time.

[LA Ute]

I don't know. Plenty of other people have done it without being at all like Bronco.

That's true, but I think in the post-Crowton era the, uh, bar has been raised. :D

[sancho]

That's true, but I think in the post-Crowton era the, uh, bar has been raised. :D

Coach Rose is a post-Crowton era coach. Reid was pre-Crowton. The "Crowton line" is imaginary.

I don't think Bronco is the way he is in response to instructions he's getting from higher ups. He either does it because that's just who he is or because he sees it as necessary for recruiting.

[LA Ute]

Coach Rose is a post-Crowton era coach. Reid was pre-Crowton. The "Crowton line" is imaginary.

I don't think Bronco is the way he is in response to instructions he's getting from higher ups. He either does it because that's just who he is or because he sees it as necessary for recruiting.

I suspect you and I agree on this more than we disagree. I think marching orders were given, but a different coach could execute those orders more skillfully, without all the sanctimony. That part is all Bronco's ineptitude, IMO.

[Devildog]

In my opinion, there is far too little contempt and scorn in this thread.

Abhorrence not appeasement.... come on people, damn.

[Jarid in Cedar]

In my opinion, there is far too little contempt and scorn in this thread.

Abhorrence not appeasement.... come on people, damn.

Shhhh....the trap is being set.

[LA Ute]

Good UF.net post here:

http://www.utefans.net/message.php?id=1532049

[Jeff Lebowski]

Oh my. This thread is pure comedy gold.

[LA Ute]

Oh my. This thread is pure comedy gold.

SNAP! goes the trap!

[UteBeliever aka Port]

I wish more of you knew how to quit them, too.

[LA Ute]

I wish more of you knew how to quit them, too.

I really don't understand why you say that. Are we supposed to pretend that the rival our school has had for over 100 years does not exist, or that it is not fun to make fun of that rival - especially this one? BYU fans get upset when we point out the foibles of their fans, teams and coach because they know those foibles are real and hate it when the spotlight is shined on them. That's why they resort to calling us obsessed or pathetic or "comedy gold" or whatever. We should not fall into the same kind of thinking. There's no shame in having good clean fun at a rival's expense.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

[tooblue]

I really don't understand why you say that. Are we supposed to pretend that the rival our school has had for over 100 years does not exist, or that it is not fun to make fun of that rival - especially this one? BYU fans get upset when we point out the foibles of their fans, team and coach because they know those foibles are real and hate it when the spotlight is shined on them. That's why they resort to calling us obsessed or pathetic or "comedy gold" or whatever. We should not fall into the same kind of thinking. There's no shame in having good clean fun at a rival's expense.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

Mormon Red Death's children arrived at my home this afternoon. Time for a little good natured indoctrination. First, after they watch their favourite show we will force them to watch my older boys play FIFA futbol on the PS3. At some point we will take them up north for a heavy dose of Canadiana—time at the lake, swimming, kayaking, canoeing, catching frogs, snakes and fish. They will have so much fun it won't even register that there is a Utah game this week. It's not like we could watch it any ways. And if I hear them utter MRD's favourite taunt: "BYU stinks like poo," I will forget to pick up doughnuts on my way home from work and consider making them sleep in the treehouse!

[USS Utah]

I really don't understand why you say that. Are we supposed to pretend that the rival our school has had for over 100 years does not exist, or that it is not fun to make fun of that rival - especially this one? BYU fans get upset when we point out the foibles of their fans, team and coach because they know those foibles are real and hate it when the spotlight is shined on them. That's why they resort to calling us obsessed or pathetic or "comedy gold" or whatever. We should not fall into the same kind of thinking. There's no shame in having good clean fun at a rival's expense.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

a) It hasn't been 100 years. The series dates from 1922 -- plus six games played in the 1890s that one school refuses to count, despite them being split 3-3.
b) Just because Utah played them every year, that does not make them a rival. Until 1972, Utah consistently beat them.
c) The earliest any actual rivalry may have started was 1972 when the series completely flipped with them beating Utah consistently.
d) At best for them, the series became truly competitive starting in 1993. At worst, it flipped back to Utah as they have won 13 of the last 20.

For me, the series stopped being fun in 2009. I don't care if Utah never plays them again.

[LA Ute]

a) It hasn't been 100 years. The series dates from 1922 -- plus six games played in the 1890s that one school refuses to count, despite them being split 3-3.
b) Just because Utah played them every year, that does not make them a rival. Until 1972, Utah consistently beat them.
c) The earliest any actual rivalry may have started was 1972 when the series completely flipped with them beating Utah consistently.
d) At best for them, the series became truly competitive starting in 1993. At worst, it flipped back to Utah as they have won 13 of the last 20.

For me, the series stopped being fun in 2009. I don't care if Utah never plays them again.

I won't quibble with the relevance of your dates to whether there was a rivalry, except to say that during my lifetime and that of most people now living, there has been an intense rivalry between BYU and Utah. Also, the overall rivalry encompasses more than football. My 100 year figure included basketball, which has been competitive forever.

I would not weep if we never played them again either, but we can't erase the last umpteen years, whether the figure is 100 or 40.

And that's what I have to say about that! After all, we are talking about young men playing a game. It should be fun. :D

[Devildog]

This is either ironic, or PU is the resident expert on "quitting"

Or... if by "quitting" he means post on their board 18,000+ times.

It's a process... apparently.

[Utah]

The BYU/Utah rivalry is this:

Pre LaVell - Utah won almost 70% of the time.

LaVell - BYU won almost 100% of the time.

Post Detmer - Utah is a couple of wins away from beating BYU 70% of the time (actually, Utah has won exactly 70% of the time in Provo the last 20 years).

BYU had a nice run. It ended over 20 years ago. Since then, this series has returned to its normalcy, with Utah winning 70% of the time.

If anyone is "due" for a win, it's Utah. When they win the next three, it will bring them back to their historical win percentage of just under 70%.

[Jeff Lebowski]

The BYU/Utah rivalry is this:

Pre LaVell - Utah won almost 70% of the time.

LaVell - BYU won almost 100% of the time.

Post Detmer - Utah is a couple of wins away from beating BYU 70% of the time (actually, Utah has won exactly 70% of the time in Provo the last 20 years).

BYU had a nice run. It ended over 20 years ago. Since then, this series has returned to its normalcy, with Utah winning 70% of the time.

If anyone is "due" for a win, it's Utah. When they win the next three, it will bring them back to their historical win percentage of just under 70%.

We are going to kill you this year in football. Kill you.

[LA Ute]

We are going to kill you this year in football. Kill you.

We'll kill you worse.

[UteBeliever aka Port]

Or... if by "quitting" he means post on their board 18,000+ times.

It's a process... apparently.

Yeah. Go count my posts over on Cougarboard since the PAC12 announcement that come outside of the week prior and following the Utah/BYU game.

You can probably count them on all your appendages.

This is the biggest dumb**** post I have ever read. Buy a clue.

[Utah]

We are going to kill you this year in football. Kill you.

Is there a broken record in here? I've been hearing that for 20 years. Other than the odd miracle win by BYU...

Good luck. Everything says the opposite is true.

[Jarid in Cedar]

We are going to kill you this year in football. Kill you.


Well, that's like your opinion man.

[USS Utah]

I would not weep if we never played them again either, but we can't erase the last umpteen years, whether the figure is 100 or 40.

It's easy if you try.

[USS Utah]

We are going to kill you this year in football. Kill you.

Do you have southern speed?

[Devildog]

Yeah. Go count my posts over on Cougarboard since the PAC12 announcement that come outside of the week prior and following the Utah/BYU game.

You can probably count them on all your appendages.

This is the biggest dumb**** post I have ever read. Buy a clue.

Jeez PU... slightly sensitive are ya?

I simply thought it was humorous that you wished others could quit them... and then the new guy (could have been Moose for all I know) posted the screen-shot that you had 18,000+ posts on Cougarboard. That sorta indicates to me that you may have had a bigger issue than most of us have ever had.

So therefore, I'm happy for you on your recovery.

Also, if you thought that was the biggest dumbsh!t post you've ever read... You've obviously not kept current with my other posts.

[Applejack]

This thread should be entitled "The Official self-trolling thread of Utah Utes fans."

[LA Ute]

This thread should be entitled "The Official self-trolling thread of Utah Utes fans."

How can you be so cavalier about this? A BYU fan and prominent message board proprietor just threatened to kill our football team!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

[Applejack]

How can you be so cavalier about this? A BYU fan and prominent message board proprietor just threatened to kill our football team!


Lebowski is a smart dude. Didn't he go fishing last year to avoid watching the game? I'm sure his schedule will fill up quickly this year as well.

[chrisrenrut]

We are going to kill you this year in football. Kill you.

Does this mean we need to start a 2013 Utah Football Death Watch thread?

[UteBeliever aka Port]

Jeez PU... slightly sensitive are ya?

I simply thought it was humorous that you wished others could quit them... and then the new guy (could have been Moose for all I know) posted the screen-shot that you had 18,000+ posts on Cougarboard. That sorta indicates to me that you may have had a bigger issue than most of us have ever had.

So therefore, I'm happy for you on your recovery.

Also, if you thought that was the biggest dumbsh!t post you've ever read... You've obviously not kept current with my other posts.

18K posts in 12 years-ish years? 1500/year. 4 posts/day? I guess I don't think it's all that much when a large portion of those posts were in non-rivalry/non-football related topics such as religion/popular culture/soccer/etc. prior to the appearance of message boards such as this and CougarUteForum.

Regardless, I think a good portion of our fanbase needs to put this habit of making the BYU such a large topic of conversation behind it. Leave it to the times we actually play them or butt heads in recruiting or something.

BYU is so much a part of some Ute fans' minds that they've set up camp and are starting to build homes.

I admit, I was very much part of that group. I've evicted them but allow them to visit on occasion. I wish we could do that as a fanbase.

It's somewhat embarrassing that the most active thread on this board is the one about BYU.

[LA Ute]

18K posts in 12 years-ish years? 1500/year. 4 posts/day? I guess I don't think it's all that much when a large portion of those posts were in non-rivalry/non-football related topics such as religion/popular culture/soccer/etc. prior to the appearance of message boards such as this and CougarUteForum.

Regardless, I think a good portion of our fanbase needs to put this habit of making the BYU such a large topic of conversation behind it. Leave it to the times we actually play them or butt heads in recruiting or something.

BYU is so much a part of some Ute fans' minds that they've set up camp and are starting to build homes.

I admit, I was very much part of that group. I've evicted them but allow them to visit on occasion. I wish we could do that as a fanbase.

It's somewhat embarrassing that the most active thread on this board is the one about BYU.

Don't be embarrassed. We are just having fun with aspects of BYU that are embarrassing to BYU fans. You know this: If you go on a BYU board and poke fun at the embarrassing stuff coming out of their program (Max Hall's rant, Broncoisms, Crowton RUTS) they will attack you furiously. Tells you everything you need to know about how they feel about their own program.

EDIT: By the way, if you look at Senioritis' first post and this thread's title, its tongue-in-cheek nature is pretty clear. We need to have more fun with the rivalry. I envy USC and UCLA fans, who do have fun with their rivalry, probably because it's not laden with the religious baggage that makes so many people take the BYU-Utah rivalry so doggone seriously.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Lebowski is a smart dude. Didn't he go fishing last year to avoid watching the game? I'm sure his schedule will fill up quickly this year as well.

lol. And I sat on a rock on a ridge above the canyon at Lake Powell and listened to the game on my iPhone.

The fishing was fantastic, btw.

[Bacana Ute]

a) It hasn't been 100 years. The series dates from 1922 -- plus six games played in the 1890s that one school refuses to count, despite them being split 3-3.
b) Just because Utah played them every year, that does not make them a rival. Until 1972, Utah consistently beat them.
c) The earliest any actual rivalry may have started was 1972 when the series completely flipped with them beating Utah consistently.
d) At best for them, the series became truly competitive starting in 1993. At worst, it flipped back to Utah as they have won 13 of the last 20.

For me, the series stopped being fun in 2009. I don't care if Utah never plays them again.
Having been born during the early eighties during the Lavell Edwards domination of Utah, I can't speak to the rivalry before that time and would agree that it really heated up starting in 1993 when the games became competitive again and have remained so other than the three Utah blowout victories. I still enjoy the series but having it played in September and not being in the same conference has taken a lot of the luster off for me. I don't think the rivalry will ever truly die but I feel that in time it will become similar to the USU rivalry in that it is two instate teams going at it but with no real meaningful outcome like a conference championship fight brought to the game. Me and my cousin often joke how in 10 years our now young boys will ask us why we have such a dislike for BYU.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Don't be embarrassed. We are just having fun with aspects of BYU that are embarrassing to BYU fans. You know this: If you go on a BYU board and poke fun at the embarrassing stuff coming out of their program (Max Hall's rant, Broncoisms, Crowton RUTS) they will attack you furiously. Tells you everything you need to know about how they feel about their own program.

EDIT: By the way, if you look at Senioritis' first post and this thread's title, its tongue-in-cheek nature is pretty clear. We need to have more fun with the rivalry. I envy USC and UCLA fans, who do have fun with their rivalry, probably because it's not laden with the religious baggage that makes so many people take the BYU-Utah rivalry so doggone seriously.

Ha. Look at you backpedal. You aren't fooling anyone, amigo.

The best thing about this board is we get to see LA Ute with the filters off. :snack:

[LA Ute]

Ha. Look at you backpedal. You aren't fooling anyone, amigo.

The best thing about this board is we get to see LA Ute with the filters off. :snack:

I am among my own kind, talking about the enemy, and freed from the need to be polite (I know, I know, it's a foreign concept on TMBFKACUF, but try to grasp it when you visit here). If you come here and subject yourself to my withering, pithy and dead-on observations about the Team Down South and its fans, you deserve what you get. You have been warned.

P.S. You do realize that you have now become Exhibit A for the proposition in Post # 89, right?

[Senioritis]

This entire thread is embarassing. Utes and cougars are cut from the same cloth. The more you mock the zoobs of the BYU fan base the more you solidify your utter zootness. The more you try to tie Bronco's quirkiness to being a precondition of the LDS churches mandate for the football team at BYU the more your reveal your own irrational insecurities.

Both fan bases are naive and rediculous. The media in Utah only exacerbates the problem. Typically, at this time of year I tune in to Utah radio via the Web to feed a deeply ingrained football fetish I just can't quit. I can't do it this year due to the collective idiocy I tuned into last year. To hear them talk Utah was the new Alabama. At least those that covered BYU were realistic about their place in the football universe ... Well, kinda sorta.

Sorry Senioritis but getting giddy about what channel your team plays on is akin to zoots raving about being the kids who got invited to the junior prom but only because the socal schools needed a sucker to help pay for the limo. By the way I would've loved to watch Utah on tv last year, at least once ... I won't hold my breath waiting this season.

Two Utes, I love you like a brother cause well, we are brothers. But your comments above make you sound like a dip shit. Bronco is just wired that way.

Utah is the new Arizona. Brad Rock stole my line.

I would just like to say that I object, I vehemently object, to several items in the above post. However, it seems wrong to sully game week against the Aggies and their future 2013 Heisman winner QB by responding in much depth. I'm sure we'll have plenty to say in the coming weeks.

However, I would just like to make one point. For fans of the BYU to continually trot out this "new Arizona" or "new Washington State" line rings especially hollow when considering the on-field results of recent BYU-Utah football contests. Scoreboard only sucks when you are getting your ass kicked.

I say this in kindness, especially to a distinguished fan of the new University of Chicago.

[U-Ute]

BYU doesn't have a corner on the "strange and quirky" market around here. It seems to be a state phenomenon. Everyone here is always so concerned about getting the adoration and acceptance from others - whether it is out-of-state media or just opposing fans.

It drives me nuts.

[LA Ute]

BYU doesn't have a corner on the "strange and quirky" market around here. It seems to be a state phenomenon. Everyone here is always so concerned about getting the adoration and acceptance from others - whether it is out-of-state media or just opposing fans.

It drives me nuts.

My cultural heritage has followed me from Utah to L.A. I come to this board to get praise and adoration, but to no avail. You guys are letting me down.

[Applejack]

lol. And I sat on a rock on a ridge above the canyon at Lake Powell and listened to the game on my iPhone.

The fishing was fantastic, btw.

See, I knew you were a smart guy. Every BYU fan should follow Lebowski's lead and watch the game surrounded by nature: evidence of God's existence.

[U-Ute]

My cultural heritage has followed me from Utah to L.A. I come to this board to get praise and adoration, but to no avail. You guys are letting me down.

You don't smell that bad.

[U-Ute]

lol. And I sat on a rock on a ridge above the canyon at Lake Powell and listened to the game on my iPhone.

The fishing was fantastic, btw.

Hedging your entertainment bets? You lack conviction.

[Jeff Lebowski]

P.S. You do realize that you have now become Exhibit A for the proposition in Post # 89, right?

You mean the "having fun with the rivalry" part? I agree.

[Scorcho]

BYU doesn't have a corner on the "strange and quirky" market around here. It seems to be a state phenomenon. Everyone here is always so concerned about getting the adoration and acceptance from others - whether it is out-of-state media or just opposing fans.

.
We might be more similar than different, but at some point a few on the blue side took a demented side detour. We don't see awkward public exclamations (ie - Brady Poppinga, Max Hall, Roger Reid) involving morals or religion from the red side.

[LA Ute]

You mean the "having fun with the rivalry" part? I agree.

In truth, you have always been one of the good guys in that regard.

Then again...

761

"I see imaginary backpedaling in LA Ute's posts. The backpedaling doesn't know it's imaginary. And...I post about it on sports message boards. I don't know why; I just love the idea of him backpedaling."

:D

[tooblue]

I would just like to say that I object, I vehemently object, to several items in the above post. However, it seems wrong to sully game week against the Aggies and their future 2013 Heisman winner QB by responding in much depth. I'm sure we'll have plenty to say in the coming weeks.

However, I would just like to make one point. For fans of the BYU to continually trot out this "new Arizona" or "new Washington State" line rings especially hollow when considering the on-field results of recent BYU-Utah football contests. Scoreboard only sucks when you are getting your ass kicked.

I say this in kindness, especially to a distinguished fan of the new University of Chicago.

First of all we both know that Utah has never beaten BYU because BYU has only ever lost the rivalry game by beating themselves. Secondly, as far as I know I am the first and only Y fan to trot out Utah is the new __________. Admittedly, I don't spend much time laughing at the stoopid LDS faithful on other supposed BYU sports related sites and I think my account on that other overpopulated bastion of utter zoobness has been deactivated. Regardless, and despite the fact Brad Rock is a hack, he is correct in his (borrowed) assessment.

Even if after the BOT finally lower the boom and all I will be left with is raving about law school rankings, I will have been a better man for embracing the majesty of the royal blue in my youth. I still have nightmares of the Scott-Mitchell-injured-arm-trick-play, daffy duck formations and bad losses to the Vandals of Idaho. You are right, though. You all should worry first about an arse kicking from the aggies before your last date in Provo for a season. Hey, by the way, why did Utah bail out on future games and feel compelled to make up a story about some rule imposed on the school by it's new conference as justification? Who's afraid of whom?

[Mormon Red Death]

First of all we both know that Utah has never beaten BYU because BYU has only ever lost the rivalry game by beating themselves. Secondly, as far as I know I am the first and only Y fan to trot out Utah is the new __________. Admittedly, I don't spend much time laughing at the stoopid LDS faithful on other supposed BYU sports related sites and I think my account on that other overpopulated bastion of utter zoobness has been deactivated. Regardless, and despite the fact Brad Rock is a hack, he is correct in his (borrowed) assessment.

Even if after the BOT finally lower the boom and all I will be left with is raving about law school rankings, I will have been a better man for embracing the majesty of the royal blue in my youth. I still have nightmares of the Scott-Mitchell-injured-arm-trick-play, daffy duck formations and bad losses to the Vandals of Idaho. You are right, though. You all should worry first about an arse kicking from the aggies before your last date in Provo for a season. Hey, by the way, why did Utah bail out on future games and feel compelled to make up a story about some rule imposed on the school by it's new conference as justification? Who's afraid of whom?

If you guys will play in slc every year. We will play you every year in November.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

[Utah]

First of all we both know that Utah has never beaten BYU because BYU has only ever lost the rivalry game by beating themselves. Secondly, as far as I know I am the first and only Y fan to trot out Utah is the new __________. Admittedly, I don't spend much time laughing at the stoopid LDS faithful on other supposed BYU sports related sites and I think my account on that other overpopulated bastion of utter zoobness has been deactivated. Regardless, and despite the fact Brad Rock is a hack, he is correct in his (borrowed) assessment.

Even if after the BOT finally lower the boom and all I will be left with is raving about law school rankings, I will have been a better man for embracing the majesty of the royal blue in my youth. I still have nightmares of the Scott-Mitchell-injured-arm-trick-play, daffy duck formations and bad losses to the Vandals of Idaho. You are right, though. You all should worry first about an arse kicking from the aggies before your last date in Provo for a season. Hey, by the way, why did Utah bail out on future games and feel compelled to make up a story about some rule imposed on the school by it's new conference as justification? Who's afraid of whom?

So, Utah is a MWC school. When Urban was here, he talked about how Utah's #1's were as good as anybody's. He always said that the #2's is where you saw the non-BCS come through.

Utah joins the PAC-12, and when they have their 1's going, they do pretty good. They almost beat USC down in LA, had the lead on Washington, then Wynn got hurt, Hays came in (#2) and you saw that Utah was screwed at that point. Hays did a valiant job, but he just wasn't a PAC-12 QB. Utah still won 8 games and did better than TCU their first year in a BCS conference. Then the next year happened. Again, Utah's best offensive player, White, gets hurt, and Utah gets crushed. That depth came through again.

Fast forward to 2013. We finally have depth. We have PAC-12 OL men. We are 4 deep at RB. We are 7 deep at WR. 3 deep at TE. DL is stacked as usual. We have depth at CB and S.

So, Utah finally has depth, the problem now is, they need experience. Year 3, and Utah is progressing right where they should be.

And that makes Utah the Arizona of the PAC-12?

Anyone who says that this early is a fucking idiot. Sorry, you are.

There is nothing to show that Utah is Washington State or Arizona. Nothing at all. Not once has Utah had a PAC-12 QB. It looks like they have at least three now. Not once has Utah had a PAC-12 RB (size and speed wise). They have that now. Same with OL, etc.

Everything points to the fact that Utah should be able to have similar success to Washington. A scouting service just said that Utah is the #3 state in the West as far as high school recruits go, just passing Washington. Over the last 20 some odd years, Washington has been to the Rose Bowl a little over 20% of the time, or about once in every 5 years.

As everything stands right now, that should be Utah's goal. There isn't any reason why they can't accomplish that. They have the facilities, they have the high school prospects, they have the resources. Utah's coaches just need to go out and get the job done.

Finally, Utah made up some story about the PAC-12 saying "no" to November games? Give me a break. Not once has the University said that. All along, Hill has said Utah wants to play an A game, a B game and a C game. BYU is an A game. Michigan is an A game. Michigan is a better A game than BYU. So BYU got bumped. That's it. Nothing else to it. This "no" to November games is cougarboard bullshit made up to prove that the PAC-12 is a bunch of bigots, when that is not the case at all.

Before you go off spouting about who is afraid of who, maybe you should realize that the last 20 years, Utah has beat BYU in Provo 70% of the time. BYU is Utah's bitch. Yeah, that screams fear to me.

[Jarid in Cedar]

So, Utah is a MWC school. When Urban was here, he talked about how Utah's #1's were as good as anybody's. He always said that the #2's is where you saw the non-BCS come through.

Utah joins the PAC-12, and when they have their 1's going, they do pretty good. They almost beat USC down in LA, had the lead on Washington, then Wynn got hurt, Hays came in (#2) and you saw that Utah was screwed at that point. Hays did a valiant job, but he just wasn't a PAC-12 QB. Utah still won 8 games and did better than TCU their first year in a BCS conference. Then the next year happened. Again, Utah's best offensive player, White, gets hurt, and Utah gets crushed. That depth came through again.

Fast forward to 2013. We finally have depth. We have PAC-12 OL men. We are 4 deep at RB. We are 7 deep at WR. 3 deep at TE. DL is stacked as usual. We have depth at CB and S.

So, Utah finally has depth, the problem now is, they need experience. Year 3, and Utah is progressing right where they should be.

And that makes Utah the Arizona of the PAC-12?

Anyone who says that this early is a fucking idiot. Sorry, you are.

There is nothing to show that Utah is Washington State or Arizona. Nothing at all. Not once has Utah had a PAC-12 QB. It looks like they have at least three now. Not once has Utah had a PAC-12 RB (size and speed wise). They have that now. Same with OL, etc.

Everything points to the fact that Utah should be able to have similar success to Washington. A scouting service just said that Utah is the #3 state in the West as far as high school recruits go, just passing Washington. Over the last 20 some odd years, Washington has been to the Rose Bowl a little over 20% of the time, or about once in every 5 years.

As everything stands right now, that should be Utah's goal. There isn't any reason why they can't accomplish that. They have the facilities, they have the high school prospects, they have the resources. Utah's coaches just need to go out and get the job done.

Finally, Utah made up some story about the PAC-12 saying "no" to November games? Give me a break. Not once has the University said that. All along, Hill has said Utah wants to play an A game, a B game and a C game. BYU is an A game. Michigan is an A game. Michigan is a better A game than BYU. So BYU got bumped. That's it. Nothing else to it. This "no" to November games is cougarboard bullshit made up to prove that the PAC-12 is a bunch of bigots, when that is not the case at all.

Before you go off spouting about who is afraid of who, maybe you should realize that the last 20 years, Utah has beat BYU in Provo 70% of the time. BYU is Utah's bitch. Yeah, that screams fear to me.


Do you realize that you just got trolled?

[LA Ute]

Do you realize that you just got trolled?

He's unaware of tooblue's shiftiness. Give him time.

[Utah]

Do you realize that you just got trolled?

Dang. Good job tooblue. Good job.

[chrisrenrut]

. . .So, Utah finally has depth, the problem now is, they need experience. Year 3, and Utah is progressing right where they should be. . .

I wish I had your confidence in this. My hope is strong, but the part of me that was at the Arizona State game last year won't let me have the confidence yet. Time will tell.

[Utah]

I wish I had your confidence in this. My hope is strong, but he part of me that was at the Arizona State game last year won't let me have the confidence yet. Time will tell.

Yeah. I talk a big game on here. As much as my brain tells me the game on Thursday should return to the old ways, I am nervous. Utah SHOULD do a lot of things. It's something else to see if they DO.

[tooblue]

So, Utah is a MWC school. When Urban was here, he talked about how Utah's #1's were as good as anybody's. He always said that the #2's is where you saw the non-BCS come through.

Utah joins the PAC-12, and when they have their 1's going, they do pretty good. They almost beat USC down in LA, had the lead on Washington, then Wynn got hurt, Hays came in (#2) and you saw that Utah was screwed at that point. Hays did a valiant job, but he just wasn't a PAC-12 QB. Utah still won 8 games and did better than TCU their first year in a BCS conference. Then the next year happened. Again, Utah's best offensive player, White, gets hurt, and Utah gets crushed. That depth came through again.

Fast forward to 2013. We finally have depth. We have PAC-12 OL men. We are 4 deep at RB. We are 7 deep at WR. 3 deep at TE. DL is stacked as usual. We have depth at CB and S.

So, Utah finally has depth, the problem now is, they need experience. Year 3, and Utah is progressing right where they should be.

And that makes Utah the Arizona of the PAC-12?

Anyone who says that this early is a fucking idiot. Sorry, you are.

There is nothing to show that Utah is Washington State or Arizona. Nothing at all. Not once has Utah had a PAC-12 QB. It looks like they have at least three now. Not once has Utah had a PAC-12 RB (size and speed wise). They have that now. Same with OL, etc.

Everything points to the fact that Utah should be able to have similar success to Washington. A scouting service just said that Utah is the #3 state in the West as far as high school recruits go, just passing Washington. Over the last 20 some odd years, Washington has been to the Rose Bowl a little over 20% of the time, or about once in every 5 years.

As everything stands right now, that should be Utah's goal. There isn't any reason why they can't accomplish that. They have the facilities, they have the high school prospects, they have the resources. Utah's coaches just need to go out and get the job done.

Finally, Utah made up some story about the PAC-12 saying "no" to November games? Give me a break. Not once has the University said that. All along, Hill has said Utah wants to play an A game, a B game and a C game. BYU is an A game. Michigan is an A game. Michigan is a better A game than BYU. So BYU got bumped. That's it. Nothing else to it. This "no" to November games is cougarboard bullshit made up to prove that the PAC-12 is a bunch of bigots, when that is not the case at all.

Before you go off spouting about who is afraid of who, maybe you should realize that the last 20 years, Utah has beat BYU in Provo 70% of the time. BYU is Utah's bitch. Yeah, that screams fear to me.

I like it. Come hard, come strong. I'm not completely trolling, only a little and in the spirit of this thread. But I do have some thoughts with regards to yours:

1. Excuses are like arm pits. Everyone has one and they all stink ...

2. Utah is the new Arizona at this point of their foray into the PAC. That's indisputable. Will Utah have the depth to truly compete year in and year out? A Rational, realistic mind says not likely. Every 4 - 5 years? Maybe, with the right coaching and in part due to an upgrade in facilities etc. Of course, USC, UCLA and Stanford will always out-recruit Utah. What's more is Whit that right coach? The jury is out at this point. Winning solves many things. It better start Thursday ...

3. At best the decision to not play BYU was the result of a combination of newly found Ute hubris, non ratified new conference agreements and miscommunications coupled with a miscalculation on the part of Dr. Hill as to how such news would be received. At worst, Dr. Hill and the Utes were caught in a lie. Regardless, the move was motivated in large part by fear of the opponent and the game ...

4. Utah isn't even the most popular college football team in their own media market. Who owns what? Utah needs this game more than they need a game with Michigan. To his credit Dr. Hill seems to have figured that out.

[LA Ute]

I like it. Come hard, come strong. I'm not completely trolling, only a little and in the spirit of this thread. But I do have some thoughts with regards to yours:

1. Excuses are like arm pits. Everyone has one and they all stink ...

2. Utah is the new Arizona at this point of their foray into the PAC. That's indisputable. Will Utah have the depth to truly compete year in and year out? A Rational, realistic mind says not likely. Every 4 - 5 years? Maybe, with the right coaching and in part due to an upgrade in facilities etc. Of course, USC, UCLA and Stanford will always out-recruit Utah. What's more is Whit that right coach? The jury is out at this point. Winning solves many things. It better start Thursday ...

3. At best the decision to not play BYU was the result of a combination of newly found Ute hubris, non ratified new conference agreements and miscommunications coupled with a miscalculation on the part of Dr. Hill as to how such news would be received. At worst, Dr. Hill and the Utes were caught in a lie. Regardless, the move was motivated in large part by fear of the opponent and the game ...

4. Utah isn't even the most popular college football team in their own media market. Who owns what? Utah needs this game more than they need a game with Michigan. To his credit Dr. Hill seems to have figured that out.

I think Arizona aspires to be the next Utah.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

[sancho]

2. Utah is the new Arizona at this point of their foray into the PAC. That's indisputable.

I guess I don't feel so bad about that. When Utah was invited to join the Pac-12, I figured we would be an Arizona type program - competitive in bursts but usually middle of the pack. Zona, Cal, OSU, Stanford, ASU. They are all in that middle tier. What I would hate to see is Utah becoming the new Wazzu. Time will tell.



3. At best the decision to not play BYU was the result of a combination of newly found Ute hubris, non ratified new conference agreements and miscommunications coupled with a miscalculation on the part of Dr. Hill as to how such news would be received. At worst, Dr. Hill and the Utes were caught in a lie. Regardless, the move was motivated in large part by fear of the opponent and the game ...

4. Utah isn't even the most popular college football team in their own media market. Who owns what? Utah needs this game more than they need a game with Michigan. To his credit Dr. Hill seems to have figured that out.

I gather from some other posts that you are Canadian, so I forgive your lack of knowledge with regards to American football. I should point out that we do have a hockey thread you might enjoy.

[sancho]

Of course, USC, UCLA and Stanford will always out-recruit

I'm in a wait and see mode on Stanford. They are not a historic powerhouse, and this might just be one of their little runs. Suppose they underperform this year and finish 6-6 or even 8-4? USC can handle 4-5 years in a row like that and still rope in the 5 star guys. Stanford? Probably not.

[tooblue]

I guess I don't feel so bad about that. When Utah was invited to join the Pac-12, I figured we would be an Arizona type program - competitive in bursts but usually middle of the pack. Zona, Cal, OSU, Stanford, ASU. They are all in that middle tier. What I would hate to see is Utah becoming the new Wazzu. Time will tell.



I gather from some other posts that you are Canadian, so I forgive your lack of knowledge with regards to American football. I should point out that we do have a hockey thread you might enjoy.

I'm a Red blooded American born and raised in the shadow of RES now living in the great white north. On Saturdays I played touch football in the south end zone as as boy while my father and brothers watched the Utes get beat by podunk state after podunk state. Time will tell. One thing I know is Utah will never out recruit any of the west coast teams, not even Oregon or Washington. What's more they can't even out recruit BYU.

I fear Utah is on the fast track to being the next Wazzu. Middle tier is a good hope, I guess. Hey listen. I am really a sports bigamist. If I could watch Utah each week (so long as it doesn't conflict with the BYU game) I would. What's more I have met the venerated LA Ute in the flesh when I took my parents to the watch Jug Head and his faulty shoulders give away a winnable game to the golden domers under the shadow of touch down Jesus. I'll be at the University of Virginia this Saturday to cheer on the Cougs. I know my football. For the record: I hate hockey.

[tooblue]

I think Arizona aspires to be the next Utah.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

We all have dreams LA; dream big I say, but that's one big dream!

[Scorcho]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bn5OIHxIAFM

[sancho]

I'm a Red blooded American born and raised in the shadow of RES now living in the great white north. On Saturdays I played touch football in the south end zone as as boy while my father and brothers watched the Utes get beat by podunk state after podunk state.

Is that Mac's kids? If so, maybe we were playing against each other in the end zone. Man, I loved that. Free admission at half time.


I'll be at the University of Virginia this Saturday to cheer on the Cougs. I know my football. For the record: I hate hockey.

I can't imagine paying money for that crapfest, but at least you'll be able to see one of the most beautiful campuses in the world. Say hi to C-Ville for me.

[chrisrenrut]

? . .What's more they can't even out recruit BYU. . .

Let's see, what is the proper response here? I assume you are talking about football.

I could go with a Lee Corso "Not so fast , my friend". or a copywrited Jeff Lebowski "Oh Brother".

Recruiting is an art with inexact measurements, but I don't think you'll find to may experts that would argue against the fact that Utah has clearly moved ahead of BYU in the past few years in football recruiting.

[LA Ute]

One thing I know is Utah will never out recruit any of the west coast teams, not even Oregon or Washington. What's more they can't even out recruit BYU.

I fear Utah is on the fast track to being the next Wazzu. Middle tier is a good hope, I guess.

:troll:

I say this with love.

[U-Ute]

2. Utah is the new Arizona at this point of their foray into the PAC. That's indisputable. Will Utah have the depth to truly compete year in and year out? A Rational, realistic mind says not likely. Every 4 - 5 years? Maybe, with the right coaching and in part due to an upgrade in facilities etc. Of course, USC, UCLA and Stanford will always out-recruit Utah. What's more is Whit that right coach? The jury is out at this point. Winning solves many things. It better start Thursday ...

Nobody in this league is USC, Sanford, or UCLA. If things go well, we are the next Washington. That is far from terrible.


3. At best the decision to not play BYU was the result of a combination of newly found Ute hubris, non ratified new conference agreements and miscommunications coupled with a miscalculation on the part of Dr. Hill as to how such news would be received. At worst, Dr. Hill and the Utes were caught in a lie. Regardless, the move was motivated in large part by fear of the opponent and the game ...

At best, this is all contrived, wishful thinking BS by Internet fanboys. This is a business, and Hill treats it as such.


4. Utah isn't even the most popular college football team in their own media market. Who owns what? Utah needs this game more than they need a game with Michigan. To his credit Dr. Hill seems to have figured that out.

We are going towards where the puck will be, not where it currently is. Utah is building a really nice fan base right now, and if you aren't looking, in 10-15 years, Utah fans may outnumber BYU fans.

[wally]

Do you realize that you just got trolled?


LOL, we have all been trolled!! Do we not realize that the REAL objective here is to extend the discussion of BYU on a Utah message board!?!

They want to be able to say that many of the longest sports threads on UB5 are involving BYU, and they won't be wrong!

Ultimatly whether fans on either side of this rivalry like it or not, their paths are inexorably intertwined by proximity, religion and demographics. BYU and Utah will always be each others measuring sticks, it is an immovable fixture in this state. No unhallowed hand can stop it! The best we can hope for is to confine our BYU obsession to this AND ONLY THIS thread. What the hand of Senioritis has wrought let no man put asunder, or something like that.

[LA Ute]

LOL, we have all been trolled!! Do we not realize that the REAL objective here is to extend the discussion of BYU on a Utah message board!?!

They want to be able to say that many of the longest sports threads on UB5 are involving BYU, and they won't be wrong!

Ultimatly whether fans on either side of this rivalry like it or not, their paths are inexorably intertwined by proximity, religion and demographics. BYU and Utah will always be each others measuring sticks, it is an immovable fixture in this state. No unhallowed hand can stop it! The best we can hope for is to confine our BYU obsession to this AND ONLY THIS thread. What the hand of Senioritis has wrought let no man put asunder, or something like that.

Agreed. I think it would be within the spirit of this thread and the intent of its venerable founder, Senioritis the Hilarious, to joke about our insatiable desire to have fun mocking BYU sports. We might as well be honest about it.

[concerned]

:troll:

I say this with love.

the funny thing about these claims that we are the next Wazzou, is that the Y would die a million deaths to be in what they claim is our position--to be the next Wazzou, Arizona, OSU, Baylor, Kansas, Texas Tech, etc., in either the Pac 12 or the Big 12.

[Utah]

Tomorrow night, Chuckie is going to get creamed. Did anyone remember when VJ knocked him down last year, and he was rattled the rest of the game? I bet Whitt goes after Keaton hard to start the game, and Erickson tries to overpower their DL. I think it will be a boring first quarter, but when the first Q ends, we are up 14-0.

[Scratch]

It amazes me to see people put Stanford in the top tier of P12 as a program when discussing long-term issues. Of the current 12 P12 teams, Stanford ranks 7th in terms of all-time winning percentage. And it's not like they have a BYU type history where they absolutely sucked for a century before managing two decades of competence. To the contrary, most of their success from a W-L standpoint is 80 years old. Harbaugh's second-best year there was 8-5, and they were 25-55 the 7 years before that 8-5 season.

Furthermore, their fanbase is pretty crappy. They draw from all over the country, with very few students caring at all about Stanford football before the day they show up on campus. Furthermore, while a decent number stick around the Bay area, a much higher percentage leaves the area than for any other team in the P12. This makes it tough to build the program.

Sure Stanford has some huge advantages, but it also has some extremely significant disadvantages. Given their limitations, it will be tough for them to keep up if they suddenly become less attractive to the intellectually sound elite athletes.

In any event, when setting up tiers of P12 programs based on history and future prospects extending beyond 4 or 5 years, USC is head and shoulders above everyone else, and the next group really has to include Washington, UCLA, and Oregon (their recent surge has been longer and better than Stanford's, and their rise seems to be less coach-based than Stanford, but still Oregon may have a tough time keeping up with the entrenched advantages Washington and UCLA have if the Nike money dries up or they somehow squander the "cool" factor.

[FountainOfUte]

Dead spot on, Scratch. Every word of it.

[U-Ute]

It amazes me to see people put Stanford in the top tier of P12 as a program when discussing long-term issues. Of the current 12 P12 teams, Stanford ranks 7th in terms of all-time winning percentage. And it's not like they have a BYU type history where they absolutely sucked for a century before managing two decades of competence. To the contrary, most of their success from a W-L standpoint is 80 years old. Harbaugh's second-best year there was 8-5, and they were 25-55 the 7 years before that 8-5 season.

Furthermore, their fanbase is pretty crappy. They draw from all over the country, with very few students caring at all about Stanford football before the day they show up on campus. Furthermore, while a decent number stick around the Bay area, a much higher percentage leaves the area than for any other team in the P12. This makes it tough to build the program.

Sure Stanford has some huge advantages, but it also has some extremely significant disadvantages. Given their limitations, it will be tough for them to keep up if they suddenly become less attractive to the intellectually sound elite athletes.

In any event, when setting up tiers of P12 programs based on history and future prospects extending beyond 4 or 5 years, USC is head and shoulders above everyone else, and the next group really has to include Washington, UCLA, and Oregon (their recent surge has been longer and better than Stanford's, and their rise seems to be less coach-based than Stanford, but still Oregon may have a tough time keeping up with the entrenched advantages Washington and UCLA have if the Nike money dries up or they somehow squander the "cool" factor.

Top 10 teams ranked by number of Rose Bowl appearances per Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rose_Bowl_Game#Frequent_participants):



USC


32

24

8



2009


Michigan


20

8

12



2007


Washington


14

7

6

1

2001


Ohio State


14

7

7



2010


Stanford


13

6

6

1

2013


UCLA


12

5

7



1999


Wisconsin


9

3

6



2013


California


8

2

5

1

1959


Oregon


6

2

4



2012


Illinois


5

3

2



2008

[Scratch]

Top 10 teams ranked by number of Rose Bowl appearances per Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rose_Bowl_Game#Frequent_participants):



USC

32


24


8



2009



Michigan

20


8


12



2007



Washington

14


7


6


1


2001



Ohio State

14


7


7



2010



Stanford

13


6


6


1


2013



UCLA

12


5


7



1999



Wisconsin

9


3


6



2013



California

8


2


5


1


1959



Oregon

6


2


4



2012



Illinois

5


3


2



2008





That just makes my point when you look at when those appearances occurred. 8 of the 13 were before 1941, the 9th was in '52, then they made it in '71 and '72. In other words, before last year they had gone once in 40 years and thrice in 60 years. That supports them as falling in line somewhere behind USC, UW, UCLA, and Oregon in terms of likelihood of future program success.

[U-Ute]

That just makes my point when you look at when those appearances occurred. 8 of the 13 were before 1941, the 9th was in '52, then they made it in '71 and '72. In other words, before last year they had gone once in 40 years and thrice in 60 years. That supports them as falling in line somewhere behind USC, UW, UCLA, and Oregon in terms of likelihood of future program success.

But you could also argue that Oregon is a "Johnny come lately" without the history. I would rate Stanford higher than Oregon *because* they have those appearances 70 years ago.

I guess it depends on where you want to place your importance.

The more interesting statistic is how far out front USC really is in this measurement. O.o

[sancho]

But you could also argue that Oregon is a "Johnny come lately" without the history. I would rate Stanford higher than Oregon *because* they have those appearances 70 years ago.

I guess it depends on where you want to place your importance.

The more interesting statistic is how far out front USC really is in this measurement. O.o

True that Oregon is not a traditional football power. I see their success as more sustainable because they bought their success with a boatload of money, and that money source is not drying up. Also, though Oregon has never been a superpower, they have also never been the Pac-10 doormat, a title that has applied to Stanford as recently as 5 years ago.

[Scratch]

But you could also argue that Oregon is a "Johnny come lately" without the history. I would rate Stanford higher than Oregon *because* they have those appearances 70 years ago.

I guess it depends on where you want to place your importance.

The more interesting statistic is how far out front USC really is in this measurement. O.o

I agree. It all depends on what you're trying to measure. I'm talking about likelihood of future success. To me, Stanford has the same strengths and weaknesses it has had for the last 50 years. The difference recently has been due to coaching. While I think Oregon has had very good coaching, I think the much bigger issue has been their relationship with Nike and the corresponding $$$$$ and cool factor. To me, the relationship with Nike and associated benefits seems much more likely to continue than Stanford's hiring of elite coaches (especially if rumored low compensation to Stanford coaches is true). I could certainly be wrong, but that's what my beliefs are based on.

[SoCalPat]

But you could also argue that Oregon is a "Johnny come lately" without the history. I would rate Stanford higher than Oregon *because* they have those appearances 70 years ago.

I guess it depends on where you want to place your importance.

The more interesting statistic is how far out front USC really is in this measurement. O.o

Apples and oranges. The Big 10 had a no-repeat Rose Bowl policy up until the the early/mid 1970s. (Sidenote: Its teams could also participate in ONLY the Rose Bowl.). For the longest time, there was one exception: Minnesota played in back-to-back games in 1960-61 because the faculty at Ohio State forbade the Buckeyes (8-0-1 and ranked No. 2) from participating in the Rose Bowl.

[sancho]

because the faculty at Ohio State forbade the Buckeyes (8-0-1 and ranked No. 2) from participating in the Rose Bowl.

Faculty are so lame.

I hear that Utah did not cancel classes tonight? Thanks, faculty, for thinking your classes are so important. Seriously, what other profession is so self-important that they would turn down a day off from work?

[SoCalPat]

Also, today's Pac-12 has supplied the "West" team in all but five years (twice during WWI, when military teams played, 2001 Miami, 2004 Texas and 2010 TCU are the others.). The "East" team in the Rose Bowl has only been supplied by the Big 10 since 1947. So USC should be ahead of everyone else by a wide margin.

[U-Ute]

Apples and oranges. The Big 10 had a no-repeat Rose Bowl policy up until the the early/mid 1970s. (Sidenote: Its teams could also participate in ONLY the Rose Bowl.). For the longest time, there was one exception: Minnesota played in back-to-back games in 1960-61 because the faculty at Ohio State forbade the Buckeyes (8-0-1 and ranked No. 2) from participating in the Rose Bowl.

For my purposes, I was really only focusing on the P12 teams, but that is an interesting factoid I was not aware of! Thanks!

[U-Ute]

I agree. It all depends on what you're trying to measure. I'm talking about likelihood of future success. To me, Stanford has the same strengths and weaknesses it has had for the last 50 years. The difference recently has been due to coaching. While I think Oregon has had very good coaching, I think the much bigger issue has been their relationship with Nike and the corresponding $$$$$ and cool factor. To me, the relationship with Nike and associated benefits seems much more likely to continue than Stanford's hiring of elite coaches (especially if rumored low compensation to Stanford coaches is true). I could certainly be wrong, but that's what my beliefs are based on.

Do you believe that the funding will stay for the next 100 years? What happens after Uncle Phil passes in and Nike hits a tough financial stretch?

[sancho]

Do you believe that the funding will stay for the next 100 years? What happens after Uncle Phil passes in and Nike hits a tough financial stretch?

I think with football it takes a solid 10-20 year stretch of highly ranked teams with a few national championships to become a superpower. Once you reach that status, it's hard to leave. Oregon is closer than any other outsider to breaking in to that club.

Mandel's kings, barons, etc list is pretty good.

[Scratch]

Do you believe that the funding will stay for the next 100 years? What happens after Uncle Phil passes in and Nike hits a tough financial stretch?

I agree with what Sancho said. I've wondered what will happen when Knight dies, but frankly it may just mean Oregon gets a huge infusion from his estate. I just think there's a god chance that by then Oregon may be able to set up its position as an elite team.

[Utah]

Something that worries me about Stanford is money. We've seen with Utah how a great head coach (Whitt) can struggle because he either can't afford to bring in a top flight assistant or can't afford to keep him. I wonder if Kyle could have given Andersen $500,000 like he did Sitake, if Andersen wouldn't have stayed.

Anyways, back to Stanford. Are they going to be willing to put the cash into the football program to stay elite? They do have the whole degree from Stanford angle, but it won't be too long where competing coaches can go in and say, yeah, look at what Stanford grads make, but look at what former Stanford football players make. Also, if they can't keep the coaches around, and they start to slip in an area or two, that could be the difference between a 5 loss season and a two loss BCS season.

Finally, I have no clue why Stanford and ASU didn't play last weekend. These are two teams that many feel should be playing in the PAC-12 title game and both of these teams only have one bye week this year. That is nuts.

[LA Ute]

One of the great things about having BYU as a rival is we are guaranteed a steady stream of stuff like this:


https://twitter.com/gregwrubell/status/37 4705161500758016

@gregwrubell: RB Jamaal Williams says team has already moved on to Texas; about Virginia game, says "even though we took the loss, we felt like we won."

It's just wonderful.

[Utah]

Anyone look at Whitt's first tweet:



http://www.utahby5.com/image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAGgAAABoCAYAAAA dHLWhAABAAElEQVR4Ae29V5Cm2XmY9/65c56eHDZjsbsAdrEACDCAQZLNok2KAku0raJDlatsX7h8xXKp fEHSF1aVfeMrlXxBly9UYrlYlmxJpChIAhOIsMBisWl2Zmd3Qv d09/T0dE5//v0879e9O9sN2brEBb7uP33hfOe8OZ3zlQaDQfxk+/GFQPnHt2s/6ZkQ+AmCfszp4CcI+jFHUPX/r3+//d/+9i+urT/6rzc2t7/Y7Q/my7XK8FBtKOr10RipjUSjXIpqCVaslqNU+hjfg0E3Bv71B9Hqt GO/vRfNVjMO2wfRbB7kvl6vF91ONzqdTr7afJZoq+QfXyqlQYyUen Ht8oX44gvPxPLaTqxsbUer24l79xai1+vmPevlSly6eDGqtVKM D1djenQ4dtvd2GseRo971+nbxtoavenH0NBwlOp1OtyIvb29qP Z70e/0Yu+gFVs7BzE5PRe/8FM/HU88+TztjXJNKeqNoegPStEYakRUO9FuN6PT7kSr2Yk+9+m26H +rHe3DJmM7jDavw9YufTiMndY+Y+UaXj30fbVaOxweGXs4e2b+ tamZmX/w9/6Xv/eN/y8c/FsR9Hu/93tDd996/w8Wlld+tV8ulUvVatQajaiV6gm8Ug63H4NKNeg7QwewRwbHYND nN8jxEwB0RBaI8rCAL1cqUelVcl+pLGJBMvvc+px0jKQqCJqbn opf+uIr0bP99d3oddsgtR0jw43Y3W5BGCARoB/sbUcMejF2fjb6IK7VOozRWj1qQ3UAvw1B1bhfN/rdblTL1egGiKuUAWwzGpw3MhQAsRu7nPvm++/HmTMXQdYwQGWk9om/Tq/NPTrRpY0uxOV+gV6MlUN0XFj4CsZVpv1qtRI9YNDrM74+Zw4Gw 3v7e1d3ePXv3Pnaf/Gf/pf/9NpTl//O7/zO7xw4/pPbxyT/2BGRc/3bb357cWn5bwbIoW+RgORLH0D3uVFv0ObVik4fygERHV+AsQvF d0sghmugTY6xF8A4ELqeyKgcdb4ioo5etu+AHJuc6Of4xHg8/+wzMTQyFjfv3I+3ANzKyko8WF6CWvdjpFGJOkgZrZdjnO81+tL b3Y72wU6M0sClyYkYhruGIKKRegOOH4bAuA/9l3MqAHm4XgFpbUcWww0QKretr8X65hr9AAl9OAVO6NF2C2Q2W y04SI6A8ERUl0/a6XEuIwcBfJbZR3s9CCylQSJ4EJKghI3QSTiArPLCwt2/ef2dm38FzEc4fGr7kRx0753b/+jR9s7nytVaIGeysRLAs+UBNy3+QACcQf+AO0gTwBzncJ4jgHv JQVBZQTkFddlFuQgqHtDjMggvw50Vqa+LWKvUsx2pbnbuTMxOT cUP3rsVdxYXYnPtEX0JxFQdZumkaB0ZbUS934pSsxUjAKjaRGT 2D6I2PBG7u4i78UkQVItRgL/0aI19uzEyOiKY4gAkc8doI7boBMAXoIf0rx8LK0tx7ux57kWrI KPMWBx/rwchdgE+XNrlsw/xyUkO3L9+hfMcr3DrKRnK0YMIPUeEDYBTn3s77uA+XT7W19Y+d ++D4X8IyP7WSQydQtB//9/9D7+wuPzg1xRpJfWKVJ0A5VMECHluVLY7dNpjdtyPZG/2K/DkNBEk57jf8wZyBh2s1mpwS5VBVoFLNyodv0N/6JYSFJ9tcl0d0bOxuw8gD2NsdDSefPIa4qkU87MzMUTPd7c2Yi B1I85q0M9EHd0IxyLnYw9KPtzfjXZDwoQ/6FaF+w/RZol79UHwzNhYjI7U0Y8t9EQ/Nno7iDsJK2Ll/t1YPX8+rl55gvPdx1uKK8YpAmijBHIkTk9IMNCJSlSjXqoJAQg NLqVfSgzFompAXdblmg6ILoHgsn3h98rK8q/93d/+u794UiedQtDO3v5/UxkeLituKjUom06VoIBECr2Q0msgTyA44ArUqUwvQTHJQSKQTQ 4oK0ZqiBD0TbfWR6TA+H2ov0xXGZdUJVKkSgfgTr+7VbmHonRt Yx0EHMSzTz8dv/6r/wH7S9HaXo+dR6sxaO7G7fduoIseca9ujNDNoVI39ltwUgeDoTG GmByL1a1dxlGLC/NnAoMnmorH4aGoId6aIHh/dy/GJibj4rmzMdPuxerD9YJLOk2Q0VK15RhKg4KQ7KPcorSQUME/HcYAADYl7tOvQ8B1jIo23NluYwCpg44Ils824xJB6jzFZB7r98 sHe7v/FS19w/Efb6cQBMV/eRzZLWKqICgRoZlmP1LKwQFHYg9GZR9cwKsKR0hFeaLdB/ipqwBcXyoBWb0enZf7AGSZk5PLEBXFZ6F0P+JKbwZC673DRPwX v/D5eOmlF6OMhdZ6uBK7Kwuxs7YUj+59GJ3dLmJskLpoiL700Btz o+PRR8x16fvZ+dlYefgoGnWoG2Oh29XgcWxlLC50A/1uw4XT06MYISCaYz24oYMF1t7foR9KCDot10M/iiqxIkGiRfksEGZDjmvAACXcPsQ5hMWYugqkOM6OL/RCi/tUtQg7GhGKTDj+YPcrx4g5/jyFoEGpNj86NpkKu44ochAVxVxZBU+3eJOL/PT3AGsAduMcBpCbnWd/IkikQGNwT2HRMToGJ+y5Gtam00fUaOc9J49kw7QDoMvohTNnz8 T8Gaj/4UOMqHYcbK3HGBS7tvIAYwHjBxO21WuhiwAWpvYwYktReYC4q0 Fk6pcEJuMAHjE9MxXTExOxiundRHedPTvPZwf9tANR1uGkM5jg zdjfWY/9rTEsvFH6ii6hSwOO54bYGjA2ZJRdznEV3CSy2ECeAi/FOvdNUcbw1D0V9JSi3k04ijA/m83mfO587O0UggBKvQ7rq9wUMzXlKsC3gTJIcqCJGRsBCQL6o9 90zd+eo/4pJfJALhhRJMhR0BfnFx1Lxcm+lOm0lQOjWfGTPxx7vxaTWHPe a3N9I1ARSeXb+3uxvbMX+yDogFcdA6FXrfMq0+eR2MM/OUA0zkzNA8hBDMEV+mZ1JMPo2HjUMc3bAGZiYirGRia4J20MDd H3cly9dAVLbivWH23i4xxEGyIS3LJ+H2tOoEtl+cn5XpPKhnGX UPx2PoeQnMZ3BlThWuFnX/yDZLAkaU8i9QXi2q3mEfZp4mg7hSCMnTQMKrC0JmcVNlXJJddw k4L6uUUClE+BTgfytkC4rAiTelCG6RcoP3LzXAaQhFOggiYQ3Y o6rSNFnMhJlGf7ipUxxO3MzHRMTc3E1PgoSh6iQSlvLN6Lyclp CKlBmwUAugy+pAxC+dIT6Jd3kOJYJkcaKbbpKMAsKPvixUtw5j zmdSMePoI7OTQ+PhZjIK8PV+I5RWsfTtrbRzyCPPRLtw3BqZeB hQirKNohZCxmftIu4xMWDDYJUtTKTX4MGCvY4ByOS3ziWbEoIc tlXnxiO4WgMlCS3qs0ki/aVPnZgDdJAIKwpHo7IvUcbSKNUxNBRYc4T6jnBhKgLq2wApnFf gemXippc3MkLUUuTgIA2FVE2Zkzs3HuwoU0dbtwiwp2fWM7llc fxmGziSk8BjW2OVcKHhAVaMJB6BWiBV28+8bwaJQxzWdm5uCaL mIQxxQxrsgyIlCHKoc45969OxBlJSaGR0DqICZGRjDNN0CWfhO KncGpV3QLRFapBHJQA6UBVJ36CUNHeCSc+Oo4QCKkx/cCFmmuO1LaTzEoMcMIIqfc/xiWBcyA/fGXjz6huAJJKsA+1CpHCECoMhEFIOnAgIZlywQq+5OLpA4bKvr IIX4dIdXddIU+CXxNTtpkX3bUg1JVcXJSlrcz+uCAJkeGoXL0x/4hoSUAj2X0CGtsZ2cn+6GFVvhTpZgYH0Ef9eNwczc6hHLWuosY BEMxPTsXnYM94FiPuZnZaGBEbGPC1+vDceHi+fjUp5+PBpx06/0bcXZuDhNf/cu4FMHoPX2eCvsCS07uSALV/k4CFCByBh+wReEzgpAkRgfnSIt3TeqEW15XwI+rOCrX+/nJ7TSCUHrp+6DIBnxP6euNRE5yC8ePbihTJTboWSIISpDyBb7g 18Kza/ni3nK4bho3SCJwUBna4QwDFprmdlQHz01k1kBcA7988871aG9D zRgDuwL+wS10wwHw0qpsxBC0NkQ/R8enYw7KHx7eiNXVB7GBr9Tc68deB2sQsTU8NYtZvgVXDWMcyF EB1wzF/PzF+MrP/UIcwmE7cGUdM7wEd+G14Gu1UsVUEUXJ5wIXM7qErpYYtVBzkNI 7QAGVjoLhAQ+uyXNAquY0+E7dLAyrYpSDineM0B+Bnh/BQRUGSbNcWGC0UGAEJRVrdKwIiNI8p3gTEeHZ9lkE+D17e/zda+iIiJDlPz7RM/nt5sXcTq7JXXma3BNEABrRa+7FvRtL0d0FQYiytc3NeLi2wecO g4PD8C6HufPM2AixtzEU/wQWegtdNIm4quHr9DAm8MGa+zE+dAG/ZysWCdqeOXceo2EoBlzf5Zixu6vopevvvhVXLpxNcVtHr+jHtD tYi1X0GH5cSW9WeCAOsVjoMyMTGfQ3h8I49OoUtxK1McoCtXKc Az7eih9oLlVTwvT4yPHnKQ5SYaWe4bMAGFdywwzJeQwsQNje3b f8FFF+F5nu9ndyFDc+DvPkPs5Ks9qGvYTjqWv8lk0V7Xgkd3CS EYdlzOnD9QcxAVy6+EYf3FmKGwtLUHo3zeRxosxnx8dja9gwDf 4Nvo46oUr8bZgmR8fxf/bhwp39RHYNRHRwQh/e/QCuq8QGouu9H3IJ146iiy5PToLMZkyqu4B0/5CgLDqyjdIygKvkKIOcPhwmB6SVCpgM74gsgZAmNv1XlvhnRCW DpnzKVMqK3MdvxaK0WagMvjy2nUJQYlIAe0N/wFEF9gWevOUnmxBly0Y1LTlPLhHyWnF+9XqbMCySuodjsrnnHC OZMz6iPDvM2R7NzntgjzDPw3tLsXL7Rlw7N5s+y+rGTjzc2ost ENRu9WO/2QdRnAu37BAs3SayfXZ2MhrIDb11TewhnNSz89OMqx07mOuNse EUV5urq3F36T5pgXbUCD3NTpyJL3/156NBFH1pcSl21zeJ87UBKoDXOMD4SOTgZNpbxbXWpvo9pQvEh 22X4+sJE84SLumM8qlBVCDKmKGxTB11IimISX+f3E4jiJNVjHk HcCC4fLkr7Xh6lVxyhKfUIcniRzv4KChKunGfLztJu1yrf2QDa VLyW5wcGxscOTqbffyJTMM2PSi73MDEHpuO+QtXIt6/lyKr1Rlghs/EDKZxFf2yd0jOaY88zN5W7Fycj6euXKA9tAhi0PAU+SyMiTaGB oZQF//m4CDWiERMgKw2ltrT5y/GpdmL0d/ejSEc4/0d0hvkiWoQQhAxbwPAHI26uKDglCz2ulQjV6TTWiYdwfg0fhIx fOf2xN+INfJFRPTwv9oYHRniEjmEuzqGfTzxxHYaQZq7ijdP5C Zdwq1lOKTQQcXVKQLpqeIpHdIKHYOKNFs9luDlxim+5BhehuHF ci+PKwLYpCheAzqWoSAB4HEHh7Lu2nnC+1M4kp//0lfiClyhNbm+sclxI8zl+PxnPhNPXr4Ua/hFqwu3AaqBfuJxUP0hiTRTEhKIzY4O14m5jcf01GiKynXicJOI xsrkGGYIPSKq8OyVq3H3wRoJPowMPnvonwpWYxIpsq3LOBVshV 5BLPKnz5f+KeNUBXCUlEMxtjbDNziaOSSQI5EYOWhjeEiYIia/s09j4eR2CkFtLYqjDuRBOjTAnCyiCKp5/hLIBdsKTAWqFJP7oa6eQVEBDzA1R1VmAzqn/kGpyIrZDxGYcTrYnG/5XWAaWvI6s6GmFRpYaZeuPhVTjVJ8/Y/+aaxhnTFicjxDcW56LJ44NxODjaXYq/ZjZG6WUM54TI7W8W8aOJ5Es+GuAQDQya0mJXcYYzcunj0bF2Yv x5+9/r14973b8dTkmQTg+fMX4pFBXnppaqGueGMMfqTIArA6sr0DORK 9BGWWQeSAyPwAgPfbcCvWZZdxdjWQaCdFGH02emEOqQ3XqALkJ pFUxCr/HRDUgloEoDrDCEKNDhrySWuE39IHKMnGbVTAau/rWavQSb2CKC0aEYh4Elkg3byJnypxudHBSoXmVeykAPB820zq5 EYiqUN6eXxoLsaJGuyvL8fNGzeIbrdQ7tW4eP4sqYqDeLR0O86 M1WL2xU/FAdy/s08GFWQOp7k9FBUtQcZVw19qMBZMCNILiqtyNPm1DaD3DnuxU9 kB+Stx+blPxxrJObPFLfohoTpuo9BJmxgDiTzHA6cCfcbFmDm/h/HQ4dVlfKYB25zoueodiV+uUdQZQGXIScQSbh8kO/aT2ykO2t3HtxA4XCQgtXgcWAWKOAZ8Rqm9mZzB7T3P6G3Zl4FJ TNNkc8UU2UrT1H0Cn56fSpVzRD53KRAINVmboIXW47vtg3PaQl SAoOfQJecunI8bi7fiy1/6Yty7czvefOc61Ap3IUpKmNRl0tFnyBPdfvCIONp6dAmYNpA7F ZA+RYKuUOC0KVoUU1DZIUi7cYfI+O5BJvTsd7+CLsCQaNFeE4A d2kv2a8UaFGa0iaQ+mBLFiiUBrHrvc14P7icaFKQQUxQie0AOq QXu1YYYDUeZpFO8888nMFSlgLiUNux6fDuFoH1CIwJSIDmcahX KS69aLoJy7AwUXziV3EFOoGOVik4dYQ8RBAVJnXKP4fs+g6VbS S0ErmgHwNmW4kZRIQLtPN/lMqWgm2IxcDB7+CwjxNJMkP38z/x0bL7wqZibPxvvkAt6/+at+OLnXooDknPbH96JByj45v4+iGkhztAsIJxoEantOhZfJ3Y gBNPX3W4LPdGIQ0zoSQoSfuU3fjU2lxbj3OW5iAaI2cYvmpqIF tcNiB7YpbRhtbEhnuQK2UndyzGRAIyLdAKQb/NKpEHtaRwwvmNjSDVR6N7ET8LBIKr7Tm6nEKTS90aFOcytxS78 qjCrSkHeGMAVCPJW+g+88cp0AdeDgrypSPbGKs609Wk30Z6DKT opW6s4RYztKt6yMd4ViyUiByW47/b1t+OD996NzfsjKUovX7ocm1D+a6+9RmjmTExgDByAHAlC57IH stuHKGGKSw6QCo0ygo0+tvBv9IFqRAKMgi/cuwsBECnAYPipL7wQ41ND0SFdW96IuI+4W8AknxmdjunhMXQR/IOeU6RDZRAZ+lmEpciBA5TbEh6wAq2JUNEq11TIQXUYn7B1iI5 S2ArPQsTJFLnXIx9tpxAk/6YHTMNuqXtEABtdKL7wrkHgsdzjdygpSV8OQdQVeqQYiOIhjYS MwSlkvAfXqEAxLjQK9BkMVHKiXcjjJRS1nmIfLrjx7ttxEwTtU lewj9nbR/TCI4iUBjUL78dnnnk6Qz77pCEaIGsIr1841kDWKLG8Bt6/4noPSuZmSAZACPcoAiepa1jBab16jiBpbSqGpsZido+kGo7o0q MtRBPW3+QcNQpz9BmhZwdp1zqMHmOTwAqf0fEg4vC/mpC0nEVAB8CrvwoCBFecyw6J1uv4nfrniEA/AvDRl1MIsrLFZhU/OmBFehvrBwVox471j9cbeU6ZnNSk/lEPWfQBgjiufjIwiqSmPQAD8E2Ti1WJoDhJ44DBaCjkAXfDdf6 Z6+9PRhMLaWdrK17BpB7H6fyzb3033rqzHPsQUW1knJhZxAeLq 1hl07FHu3vU3V0h4DkChVcZgxF01GhU6liolFeVKE5ByqG7ImZ HRuNTz16OmTnCROaJeBkuev6ZC3F+9i2CtJUYwVIszYzG5NXzM YzYrqqfabfJuNvoZoE/oI9lLT4cYlJYsYeIbYGEcmDSAzdIik+kj6IOZDBojAuu4zOlCN d3IMST2ykETeD0acEJK5VmGgnoIJW6VJ/smVQuGBmkLJ7HVPzql8JQKMSaCKITIAdzIBGUfEkjyUG2J1qkq OJbvh930mu6BERLFAHWRgHa1Wfi0pnpOP/k0zH7ndfjX3/nBwmEAyh9neSdeqU2hXjj9+bOYcxQY5D5GvrVRky6WYmUuo36v jHM9L/x1Z+KuTMTsbB8OwFk1LoBEY2BKKPafUz9Z559OqYwvdcRheNw+ RyhoDocqkV4gH41nKRoFUmyrWVXo6QghoEFGWq1LyPhBdxETvp wsJKmv86pNXatOs4zYvnkdgpBU+RJkrqlOjpjZY1IEmfStoDNb +JQ6BbakyMgJ03owkDwoIfTgxNJR6F5A6DHWEjR5086/gkEHV1rC90BYf9uDcuoG1sYE/fe+CF6oE5J1lxcvniBtPVmmt0WFe4RFO2stWKMSPTD9e04P3Um pogSdHC+O6S0h0DyCAVzPcJCitdJrLuz+EzdDuVXtL1PtHyL6q Hy8BTEtkeeaSimMO+vXL2G2JuKf/iHfxg7RCo+R23Ez37pSzFOzG+ImKwpkSbc0YJ72nCtzGFux1TN ADatOB5fDhO9g+JKEHQghAoAURy2+K7cOLmdQtAIFo31B8pIU9 2ZUeVTfXOsj7hXIsqbljK8IeEUHCYm/bMH4sKv/laB0l9Yno54LA96DoKQjhdIKtr9qJO0pf00INbWxZrsNIbjARb a3FSDNPhkXJg5w+ARMfgsB0SoLR6kQ7FPFtSK0DWMhrm5GZQ7j iOGgS7EJAgYJxfUPTDBhygiLNSlMKUFd3T30IPknCqEeIYq07H y4AGJvdHMJ2mdLi8/jOVH67HZQlQSq/u5z79CaTJ6Du7R1UBycn/jcBSM8EOk1x00CJCD6BIvuMhUjsgDCHKXXGd5wDHxfzR+vpxCU MXyKAYpYCEGdA9y9PhT9UF72VAiQgDbcN4jPw3FaMXY1+KN7/7wLTtrG4pKGir+OciXfB1dkhezy73AXAXSp6eayFefez7eeu17 cefmAkCoxJmZyVjFMLA69MLVCzGJaXzn1gfRwsJ7hN7a2jtDtn QSJAziwYOH0QewE1kr149tkF01EYgO2Ua6KI4P1qilIyre2V8B wTtRx9m9ePkywdXJmJ8+E9vbHMORubFwP84TYnrx3IWoHYIIRO eIkkKRBbd3EP0JKwKwAzmGsXdBjKiyKki6Fmllzq9hqFguVlJP n9hOIUiDWs2gVSZyYB5VDPvSHOByAS5rHnEURwr4855hDY6DpA KJXsefiiex5NVpOhxhIpvL67mLEOKom7IgfyZOzWTqxO5CuVef vBKXr6zHL37557HCugBsO9bhntfeej1aKOZriL1R+nbjnfcwr/fSlO52RmkSEYSPtx3Yz2PIewDUR0f0KyOxRZ3c4maHFPpKPPXc RNzdu4cDez8eUvs9TiZ2enY25s5dRvfMxL3OHUzmEvHAvfjg/ir6ZzjOwF3jdHwCq3OS+3TRd3tEuw+NOAwajIbIApyjSGsDB5F VASGKvBLn14UXxkM1DaUc+kdvPwJBXlwgRdma+R9AqOGgeMqaA VhSp7VgChEjNG3Ta0WIGHl8U4bxm47pX1lYIpK9XkwpStMxFkH 5OmqOo4aZJBiBaQ0Ad4hnnnkm5qizbg32YhOgNil4P9jZogqVI OozT8YVQkDLtz9k8IgixF6/2wQAnWiS8u41qS6ljGoEv6ZbHoq3FjfSTF9ZeYglNx9Pzz0Ru0 Sw+8OzlHE14xFi8k++/o34tV//GrURcCNWqo6nxL692YzF+k7conxrEgvsFWonnhiqxBSFi4eNJv psODbhpAP6ndhIllK8OXb2gbTkrIQHY08FLUw+3n4EgtD7wNdX VssIcBHGm0gp9BCfBXQBHgcFdCLg6LgIOkKYX0z95kZHlMGe7y mPy1z9A2+ks5aXeoH35Fpum1TYJ/VwgIc/AoAWlyjNXViIN998M/YojRoZHYqx8Yvolv0sShwfqRHH6+G0UnJFqqBHWFmi2EY/TaLAJyjHeuuDhfjDP/1u3GdaS5V0wfi1c3H7EVqfHpx/8rn48pNPwilbVJquxQGFKM9/5sX4V9/8BhlYiApibe8SEpoYxDoVKo+obq1R2D9OPyaJqsxM9GMGv2lnl Gkw1D3s04cdOGwPw2sfRFCvSnAV4kPca1AkGYrAE9spBBXIoQN HXFJJMSfnHIk0gCZg+VciJcIS4nzP/Z7HweJWngSViBF2SC1cwXnsSQ5kP1sSFr/lngwnFRdzxOODdDblHK0ig2jaO845ahNlGCd1MFSCI9A9zj+SF Eax4s5R5ruzQx0dI1RUj5EGPyCdUBmjJPjc1Xh3aSP+4F98M5b 2mcoyj3+D7xND0/HdH95In+2Vl18i7KP3Mohnn3sunn32mZien4m/fOvb8drb1zOM1dmlzoGEoWVjmxgZS4jaTmkmKuSlaivbUVlcow ZiI2YpGzuYnYqtyZFYx8/chFD2QQyumJSfsJWIrZM7uZ1CUBUAZ821n4iejLNhJSTnsO+Y6 vMT+AnQApA2XXAWpynyE+AFjPmRsC6Am+exwz8RkNZNtoMyFUl izE1CUAlyTplCkhF00QRp6ClCMSRPyZxuxHSczSkhltIy7hSxT pYaxhrtdYlkU3hZgov0+idm5mN6bC7uIZr+rz97LT5c34kSyBw aqlFW/BJauxIrS1hupCqshdvd24knnriKxTgDN7biwtlz8R//5m/G7ZX/lfpuYo8YJoc7mxkH3CVm+JBS4YWdclwihD3CoPqI1Db5qTYVsV 0c4gaW51lmW5zB3O9x332GvwsJ7CNVmsjMjnm1E9spBBmx1UEt 0gYAPIFYXFVwDkBLDhK4CUPeC6UuIFP/5HF2A2gBzs8CWZ4vIvx/rA2vy528uyXy+ZTjnPwlV4xBeYqBrU0SaZjGJcIH7y/epuCQ3BD7h9ErTjXZRcS1VwiE4hdJnV0spMzFQOm7xOZuL9yKf/HaO3FzZYdIAGlwKu5nx+txuPUIg6OZ84WeunolwzozcKU5qa2N R6lzZgm2vnztuXj64pV469aH9BqHmPsfUtSiib8DISxQ432ZUE KlRIGJhghitoeJ39sl/7OGv1WhQFKiQ9w1iIpYZD+Kp1uG4gwyn9x+BIIKmf+RkEqxJAA FttZZwUUCXUAWPrLH+I1szeJ4OS3/6KCs5OYJ/kNZBXIKUehO1dKRbecpufnJzL5U8tY11wCmJuw2fsrCvXsAvxO rWHCLj5D9mOFnZ8jzEPxsksZuEH6ZZlZDVJH96K1HO03E4SBu3 nsQ333vXtzdbMUBhVp1ChSvXD6DvhgDIbPx+ZevQZw4n+SPXnz x+bh27SI4hqtIYWxSD27xyNkpIhlTc/HD7k1KufZxgG3bcmAms2lp4kSvMvYa4xwuO9XF2gXGqBZ1agyp jArj0NIdoY68gkk+AJPqzBGnZp7YTiHIvI2OT+qJI0tDrlB8KL rSiRVpvApgenN/5y4/gKzH+EsOEilHZ3LQoKiUbbxBpFU4t4IM1+E05KOVZ1lc1/O4RxUOItFA3AxHlQ708d63APbB1gHzVSnB2pd7QczhaqxWASJK p2FqAeAQFfRWsYz3f59a61vLq/GQxFwbS6wCAC+TUZ0iEj5Pcb4p9Rnmp5bRA/OItKtM3hojyGrdwNjVibhVukON3WZUWwRZ5X76uksapE3IRz1X 3+9GDR+pMTkch8w83GFMTfwiGkS39DIeqG4eJlBLbCbhUFEUcr Exxxr6cSJDXp/E0CkE6T4V1O87mM4/E2jqF5EhLpLkRQub78X+xJK/GXyBIr4mBxVnpsVCp1Nw0h6nFRx2LCEBhrkoPXLvrIgzB6QyHQ BUr3cu69PPfYok21YMjQ/HuXWKO/ZA1v1lDAfECbqiisW1s7lNYNWoCFYTYuYRzuQBNW1knNBZhxQ2 jqBTZimUvxpfIcc0Oc0UFcq7JnFqh6nNphuxTfXQBiL1EKKdOT sTDzYfxjrTUR6REDSe1iO5Zz8rhML6VAUlQRBU7gDoHbiqSuZX o2sEI6XJOMrUROg2DBC3DSRCHe9b5Eh4AII2/h0cVXPtsp/T9uylwRYvJsqHU3ckugCum4whZ2XsLvcUbx/pkOSggpM8oplfJRhpkYU9d/ZGcstjHJc5JE8Wye5nANY369ANiVSqb9D7lFVNxEuXX43yQSeu v3cn/uV2P64vL8ZopR2vPP907G48zHmshnw6JNxG8XsOsfr6pMiHkPW TZFxH0QGXseDOYzxsUkZ8sL1HgcpUWoPLByvx7lvvEB7aizMXz 8XTWosYKCsPVmONQnvnqSpadRv24aQSRorcoNLfon8EMXFimSH OeRXKV0tWBemcApMZUiTUAMUIolgH1si4sOkBm5PbKQ7SWnFOj xO3+lWQorMHstLMZr/ATx8IGIsgaV1uKX6wE6ovOMldBXLyNN4MGtbQJ4oXE10YTckt8 lSWY3FcRNiEYxSPXdKhPQcAlTlbz8lZAxzPKbit+pCyXpT93tJ 6lEZno3UGn+P+HW40En/9r/1CvP3912KLafsHKG2qsGMMx3RonzQAVaQj5IdmKChBTcfyAqkL THQtN3VsE72xQHb2rZvvxZUrl2MWETiJ7llH593D91qllk4xLr kiREkAooPgqH0IehmEdgiaNi1YAYbDjKPKTLsGoq6HDmqDkB7h NCMHmcxksKZEjMJYmnVyO4WgNuKhnDOfkZtQWp+X1Ski6bguwc AofSs2OlUgINGU+zyU+/jMNG6ByUSlvwv1AoKQ0/KodGPK2E1KUi/5KaPqqLbQQ9URxV8zRkHQPIp5aGk12pv7lEhtEn7pxypUuUMxw OjYVCw+XI2/MfH5+MJLL8Rr3/k2wVYUOJGIYSYEO5PB+gABLDHs7O7FCK82wHG+kVWp23DTfQKl Zcxv8goxTQShTpXqQxzWd66/B1eRUidVodF0iGGSWWDE2AExukVM802+rwC3EWB2EctycmQyRq ibGCJuXVWkQQAtBngI8TcwSizdOiASccj11xIKH7+dQpATkKDX BFvqCkCtY5hgBIZlbu73RJLtgCxRkzg4xoq7eYkMPxPSfCRHcD 0NppFgPXMhNPmNGLORRBDmagVDQLNayhpGFJQRDw38jvPokvLb t6O6shU15va8sXw/Xocb7ziVkNTE+JlL0W104+0bt+LnPn05nn/yUty8vUAc7gBurVF/aF8ppqcaZwezeZP9owDvECRuEjLap5L1T//0G/Gtb347PvfZz8bMmTmQPpYxv3fefTde+/730myv0Yb+YhYkwj0JD9ITHdrfhyv2AXgXrlwjXj08Vo4XXPQD EVYlte7CGhKdhSez1IbXgNsmEmEfMfmy8HpsO4WgClMuTEE7y0 6R8lFoh30p6uiUx92fm2QOYEVQWmv5XfIXCeKGL0cbDJNzRiHc 9BFqAF/F73U6pBoFZleHoOIBA1QUOq0RlzOm4ZxhTOq4TmLt1gqR5GfjD UzuH2AsfIjT1zUtzR0b1UmKPgbxrR9ejwvTlThHhNsyLMy32IT T9hBt64jZdayuhwRPy8TwDhcRuxDIJpGHb3/3W7FCfO/5lz4dn331ZSYvP5dp7Dd++Fb80T//Y5xX8rgW0dBfB91Fx2TBIfrHip4BnNVU18BBHSYyOx/pDXysNpGKT1MkeX4wHBNc2ukexi7+0QSpjzqEtdpjggDE8qvHw Dr6PIUgJ9o6gdi5nRUsjmP9c/yZOgjkfAR4FcYRkMWKiGJH8QlC0grk0/2KtlysAkyh3jA25Qz4kf0dOZci+Da56OM6hToWxAR6bxLqrt9b iMH161FaWI1rF4iRYRH9xc0bsYqp2rPqFsp1KRgIG2SPxQ6t/8HX/yx+9edejfNXrlAUsBL1Tbx1pp0saarT5s37iwA0YgG9Zb22xfA D7vn885+OV1/+HNMnmcpCyGjh/v34x//3/xOr5ILqiEklQopu9QjWmYZNDbMeYOVYdBVcD0H7SinxUPHX2sI ZaMcvz5g2p79YfWvorgNE6xBctAIB3sSvOrmdRhAUpkcrkvKlj IS6kmOOEAM8P0KQ6WMp/5MhHxFSiLdEZHIRnVa2KSYBguKrCjdqfFjkNyBXotevhZbr/yDiJjg+gbyPhaXYfuftmFx7BFfMxYCczjdXF+Nd5vl0FRHkhSo j1ALglbv+QYXA5/Dshfjg+kL842+8Fr/+s68SqT4HtWMyc/ypS+fjYJNrudcODugenNlG/zxx7kqMk+oeB9D1o/5/l9zTn//ltxCZN9HNTre0s8QQDC3B2UXtBsSB2OJAIi7XgABpDbjfcq8NF tbYGq4wnXIrnm3jY2EpVjH1m3C0tXcl9KKW3wbjP7mdQpA6Rm6 xxErE+F2E+Vt9c8w5fqaVRodTtIk1NjnGLff5O5GTu/KIP+WkdE691gHzr+5rICIayOIJRNA4QdEBJm3l9nLs3bkXFSIE dYrnu/Pn4jqi4M/v3o0VWmzXqcRBrHhndUKfqpsuVl6tQd3AyNlY2XwUf/6DO/HKE1dimhqFWjykXqAT1yoTOJQAFq5podcuz84T9hnFuhrE9uJy/JMP/s9oIUE2ofR9dExOJNavon9Z7ydhKjzggLQw4WCrZJHRRHF0rSV Qgrq073yiQ8a4jSh+HXH39NhEnMV3ajPeFm1rZhtDt0jy5HYKQ ZqZmb4WMThdxuWcNyMAaKl48b0AvJxzssniVEM8nJ2X+KbkK8q MDFzyi+MGb/sYBFKyHFhngDOcO76HSFtF5CyuRGdhMSbJjg5hIg9PzMd9fJp/fvtmvHVImS7OpjMSJ1HOJtEqNNivNMG+FacjrDxynqRZDST14k 82340Xn78aI8TdsA5iGIRPU5TvzAmXHXgFXdMmlbHp7O6l5ViH Q7Zh9z5FNDXqElyDyFATmpKu67skv+QYLReTc2Eo9KbEB3GBaO 3bHjq9bvEIolqH+x4i/Dtbq/EqscMeprglV7jg0D7c/yNgeQpBKYZEEp5ulvPyPXsDlkXKJ14CnV4pvDiJFxtkJffkpGN +JiLRUQ5ITsFMwNoSP2CHf9PAOrpDRAHm0CcTRAAqi0sxvo75+ nCTiME+DipxNhal2Bkaj39z/258Az9kUQOGGoVR0tdam8MskaY+sIYC+5kQURmnc4Y6g3ZsHFB HQLinO74a5+eYyQByzo1PZHDVkqoy1tYrT1yKwwfrcYPZe0NkU O/Tn+tEETTPD1heTEp0xoUT3LIqJwkZJ9iyVTjN6py6MEKEw8LJS Vgs4gwRTLYV13QXrtsbZbIY5cxjSKQpxmUhkJzoVE982VPbKQS lcQDnFBxSAPjYYvsEchLitgfwfReRbCn2RJCdzSPuLRBUUJ0OG nsQA30rXohKjzCMC8wwnH+AXrh1I0p7D2OCVHF3m51Q3j4i4gF Lg32nvRn/cnc9FuCKbnmUQU+QvBsixU3cTbxkxNvZqsTHMCJqE0QLBhOxsb xBGe88PhCAv78WExBfh0jC9BnmFiEdp4cG8QzrJOy31mOaWNoq ovSPb9+nhJhpLHDjAWv4jOtcolcOqDEw/OHqWRVmjhOShrsgSiBdhyhyJgQj7gLtDuwE44FbdbjXUaYFglc B1Q2KVl6k9HgHxB7Uifdha5OYP7WdQlBGq2G3xxFUfC/2PY4kW1N+ykd8+egjSULLzuPH3MMnP3hBLUR8dVIlt0l03vjad ozc3onKw62oUKgxIEPqvCBNrAPMU7nlA/Z9C31yGz+lBXKHWFBwWAMB7nGxjRppA1VsztKjT85W22Etnx6l uhOsLDIzDQcSS9vfIeiaAO3Hk8zuPsuk43OEt6rU0Z0dnwJJJY pNmvHh/mZscV5OqgLITgIwBGYRYiMDpDixiADJUvGccUOIKdeH0GCAI9C wxfgZYwmi78OIfZzRPkHYNVIU6yC4jKl/DfE4CwJnlIEntlMIOj6u+Zu5m6MdjyPm+LuHjgI9ySviSOT4l0 gtMMROD7iJNC03OJRjVRA0srUTQzcWonEP0UbVTp99fYKIe01q xRCDN1GsbxzuxkO+L6AjdlmipUZcbYxi+oY11ABn42CD7ANtow sMU20xCzwjIlDuKLVv5y9dZMbDQ2rl1vG/WCMOwOxQd9A84HuH8A/6amHrQSw8WIk//eBuvIuvc4/+tdBtAr4Kx2pgmfxzdriBTiVEjhMOUKwVk7iABpJEKZcaGF2UA FZRQ2RpAWIUuPjUFmb1B4fbWHF9En2duDw0E7slClpObP9WBJ0 4L5F1jJjjT88BjZ84le6yk9cx53A08ZS7jLlBSezQnB7Dmx+6u xyjiJM5zJwaVs028rmL+dkmnnaPCPa/YX23e5RGoZHiAVFgaJ2gZAMEDSFdCKdQmLF6dwUS7+f6csSI48 HSClRejyeeeJIJXOMUN67mdHxXojJcdUCopwsSxymKb/RH4vUPP4w/efuNuA4C9wHvLgbHAJ02jC/ozLsqorNGoNRItGW9WnoGNnPkjAWtVMTTQKaZWxHhQhgqoLLGA nE4DSOtYYPRBn+bOLu3DzBDuMcduOhTI3Px3CgzK05spxB0XEC YYRqtEW50bDKfuDZ/iqzHOUaEHZ//kVRL1uJ0Pi0u92cFETa+shnjdx/GOJyRchp/pgESWtWRWEGv/AWhl29hUjfOPhmP8FXWQaiLHY1otQGEATK+Cjco1oYRO5OIKJW ufD1BEm4af2lxcTHXSxhBrFjk3sVsJlpKbRwLJI2OxT9+4/X4NtWqqyjwXcRQV8sVZ90ZEkqDihldPP2yS4GC9BH8rbTSMJ+d MuPqjcWKkhCf3A80clky2Aj7h+uMpuvjkfMBQS36YNyxi17dJs Nb5/stiOWV4TNxAT/s5HYKQZ6Q5rCm8GOb+1LdPLbPr3rRqU5kajDCmJJjJC+J6JNbs cNQexmvfOjeg2g82MBEJnpARrGJ2Om16DiAeBsq/yap7S1WBZlEzK0fME+IwTagPBd3lRN0AQylILWw2mgVtTXMuWf n50EWOmdjg3LebaYYNYM18IiJTWTupUz71y5dQqRE/Mn9m7FJaKg0YAFZlkurqvQxhV3TzvXtcgFd9pVYe87AsXooF2a CUDr0O/UM8q9Jf3UZMPaRBMT8cqiQK1gSaf67eknbPgPLMjmnFsSwCrG8 29yMP6a+7tWZs/GlTwKM9k9sOVclnbACmMfiLBEhMo5ex9aaDJ5/WDD5Hawk69MJM6Ref7zJnS7yV6e0tvnOzZgm9N8nntZFiZrQcv rgHtbXTSjzL3HoPiA93JieJK1MipqIs8gxmZa6UTECoFvoqiqJ uGoHKm8ReyO389TVJ2IPc12/5Qwms6kAOcfI8TBm+TWOj42CQNrtTY5jiMCFiLABXFJBBGt4DH Gv8QlmNFC7PTphFNw6dYhDfaTe4f6wMYhkJRTEbZ3XAFOyw25R QktYeiQb5ERAwBAzfNaAk/dASs2Vk5ESLPUU93Gsv7FyN/63W28fg+qjz9MIUsk/9jpGiFcci66PruZLgRzewWdyjBoS5ORMOQaRSycnT0FHWktUcW 6+/kZcRKwN6QwyI0H9UsPktPb6Q6jwW1hf70GdByBglChBmxJexVK DwTrXR3GonEzlTbZUB5X4ZFw+d4kkXSvu31ukmGMjvf5hrnc1q zYiVf/FlEPqOOurMTzm4IwyllUFPVMnKSewZ5i9MMI1ZXUQ8b02JnCH2 oEeCb8BfdaBcM6SS2seTyDWplN8eE2V8I45noQHfWZ9N5BRRGM 0/0soYAOs1sO5GvAhunaFfe+7CMOJ7ZSIEwnqH6n9+Lv5Dn/LC+479ouKtgoO4YzsoHznOc4rykmxcFGx8BIhEPYfELZpUPTxD FEBl6Pcod06VFspD0eTgbzb2o432L+Mcm2gJ5jSEy3yM86erow qUBAVAA9GBIgsRoHV1mRq/eWzF1h+mSVeHi2xSjC+EPffhesuXqR2GsrfI6ZnKsGZGuosQ0w HpMrPjlLO2+Mafo9MTaZ4LyHicqIvfVN/uKSZukSmKZOykCgbWohw8whiyqj/Nm6AaW8zqVppA81pQcMxz+2ZVbXvjDGTkxgZDRDTww8cQAQtIg 7G9U5upxDkIuP0n80L5FBN2aOYHNSQRgEnyFkpvjjHDhebaOKP 486i1gT25ZJfTgBr4+N0378dz6o8meqBwmAiL1YTImEPx+4Bcv 8DgLhIbr4J4CeM46D1D/D8S1DmEHkZlwIzQjwuJ8AtLcqsOqSx13ZW8fibMQ9CRoip7SJG TaypG1xzbscaNbDaAQjWJQi4La4dnp5hIQuWz0T/lQYQAhTeI7DZx1BxeUYDBcmhIEfKhzxTdJ+fPRM/8yJrNPDpPKFlxvP1H74WNx4sCxAcaUQ9GLXIRuKWY4RXRQMEgn EOk+t1t+E0XHfgjNObcYcjUB59nEJQG0wXsw+OFD5jKQE4ga4n Lfd4o+OXxgPt536/cCjP5Sw+lUxMQoZqOhS2L968GZ9DJJ3jWK9HdrGPHMbnWadCZx SdsApSdxA9Rnk1l0fotOtUH7DfKIHrtY0Sf5ufOxstfJV1sp4W gJRB7j4R4yFmwZmulqqdC7TXxc+A4IaJp3WWiRxTyOFLjhVBms QGQcvMY21Z7E7G0zV6hvGLxkhZVNER6gBnZ7fhIi1aJ4BNQlif efa5uDQ6FTs37uC/EdUGvp+9/FQsrj1kdh3IoEZbYpd4M1ucgKExgGIuifCrnoigo2IJa06j8Ud YYacRRKMGOhVzWeOG8jaqnbqEz6QCbiAm5I68A+eaXJNiLEnqE 98w5+4i4i7Uh08WW3Sc5alinBBHhWO7UP0k8bUyFP2QUtlhqGy L2NQuoiHDIwyhQspZDtCbd57OMEB39fsW+mmFhWW3cD6timmMN YgUzKD7DmIYQ6EB0qzJLkH+hyjgMThqBKA6y9v2hjHTWyAy1zh lTDtwbZNzy1qH+EC5aiMBW5c5K8M1LJtamMYQmdz7wmdfIY2Az sTI2CNNIYJaiKkeTtKAyHgJLmkxaDMDiiEJ3hoPYWZwNFdXBDa mGiRizkIPMl72ndxOIeiQwGAunY8SrMHiphtsQTGXrAkX1TIvU mRAs4YbIOdyl1RTtulUh3KkEeR4DnYwQhEFIRt9HmoI+tQ8dLO KEguHDnZRMkv9PapfurGM/XQPk/iAoo7+GCKM2XDdXdZAoPMZ+6L/VtGs77AWwp7PYsAagqLH6dsECJ8m9PMEE7QOQeBmZxc9Q2luex 8RNsZaCeNML1llJV+QBGC7IKoFd569cImsJuY3MyOGjDzjT0mE Fnf00Q89CEadoQRBMTG7oRTnIYZDLNC9cVLc89OxtrZOjWQj3r zxHvE7THqcbMUolzIixJqEyp86KSdTW18uMmSCFGvqOkQpcDq5 nUKQq982SHyZkKoRPsnFv6E+w0t0MxVimzpk155R33AKXEDjRH 1NuHU0NQn+tRVhJKuLJYhbsbBwPz7NAA/hngq5mpzWSPd3GfA6+sVCjlWoc8NSWQSL8llFv99DQ3EDvfAaI qBD6gGbOUYh6xqvqxQevvzU09HH2ZslbVCG6t9HH8jcRWSbftN XlxmTy7XmekzKUvzsE+GeJqs5iY7apChRfVfFnEYUMLJCj+gq+ D2plC/q0vvLSzHHYrS3V5dznuu5Tz8T3//BD1hEYzlr31i9lyJ9ix5pD5vvGBmKyIJfQBx6yCmWPitCODbg1 OS4vNfHb6cQdMikKDwMGmX1pwsX47MvPZ9zOV0W0pKnXKMG8WC p0e3bd1G+h8wkoAoTpf1wfY8pinv4H3jsyHoTUp3SUCwTQlmhv vk5xNTePtUzcNE0RRRNplzv8ISRxcF6FsI3G8xAwOys4D8wad6 0Tsppep+DkOIUK+MAqTFkAL8Rrz7xYnzm4rVYeO86lejd2IA4N kBCF3FpHxTrrmsqsgVKljoxftfKkXj2rOjh/BTPIKONJWZoJzkG/fvRdBhElQCXM5oQ2QAxdv3dd2Mbc96lNB+5ALuWGH9lfgt0OVE drXUmavia7WabiO0iZwZvQUyqlGJx94+R47dTCNI83MbJu8aKg 1+gqmUMcTRF/dgM66h1jMBSqa+ImGLZlQaFD1vUPbu08Sz5+6euPBnfffeduLO 2kvqrKcXXenEbijuEYonSo7i7scKgpi7PxCb66RbBz1uInbUqV ZgsRnTINTl7TyLBtzHu5RLR6RgmFzMwFHwdk7hGm6OXL8Vt1oh 7c2kxLc4DrLADzOweXNnCjK5pwmKoNFD4DUTzAUWGLmbRdhVgE LGHJTc7O0e9gSJThCB2MUoEsP9Fck5dWgBuHxXw1o3r8RYpeHW VQC0Dh5LTLbyei5z275pHSgHVg+LNLfU3n6jq5Gpnhue4tPL8D uGd3E7tUac8fekSs9guY+czAMUFcrzcgWUpajSHf+8OK0M99WR O3MXqZ7YzihmOG0UmW+bq2jmmLRRNh4i9TWap5XqfiLCGYRvSB g+h2utYb28+5DvI2MfDN0TSJmVtRaZxK4g/xY6F6A1+gzkAj1KHIp0y0iL59acLNzMB15tFZ0E4qkwfSeO803 wqCWSrL9OgX4qUQ8Rzm/4ZInI97i1mg587d4480DQSQCQV9RLKyMIXhIqBqMA1gtGBe3i8 TNZ/W7PhArbqGAO9Isda7j7IsQA/lxeg74l4OEQDKrHOPbIgB672t9zqOcbrTm6nEPS1v/7TVPqfY6AlVsdlwi2rSB2ApKWlpQTaCDGuJk7Waz94M17//utxjtq0//CX//2oz1BJQ3hmj0Vcu8ymzjwRFOsMAKdguMiDK2ednZ6OD+4uxs31 B3GdgaxArT3kdVbFYF4bgHTyD8yVaxvoIJqphOiUD4V3jyjKJZ 5RjIc4tZrZ1m5Xmd1Ww39y1SkBCa0CMNmAmXkYFIo7ge2iGYdE Jkw1KOIUXfp13suS3kQSHFg47FzvzW2G85RTUr06U4dZ4ZUP3o CcdOjlfus3nBws54jY4y0RAbFwK/GPaIS8QZKRDU8z0nFyy3E/vvOLn/8M2MdkZEXCFpxTTCmxkh/vHjHQIOD4xHMvxje//2bcogTqPRYz+vq//lfx/ofvI+7WmUvDInhaalg5PZZs2WXpSnlhEg6pYqHVoZIB3vbtg91 oTY5GC5E0wPMeQ/5VMAA0Rvhpro4ZbwDbHkq5iDNAkF65Vp1cZe7UJ41UKGogPImx Qskto7dKU/meaJWDQFAiEuAZ4fBpWcASTkKcca6LOLmAR3K9SGDLghk4wwCw W4o6Pq1GAqNECoi6IypFqpZuGhP6vyAHOiD0BMJFKuM9dupFrA jTPRHZHAZJpHT9wlbwUfH9+P0UgnaYMeZ60XWsii04Ypsnjeh3 aGreWVyMRSptGpSzNgEoljvi64Di9Vtx68MPsiMtjIaWAVD8gS 4WofXOVvDMYEVNIpNbePgTTJ1fQW88hIpL6AspbxSWaWB4uEC5 vk3LOmZ8mTJ6wpUXc5AAoI4YdOAuoEcWmhpF9BH90Pn0j11J3X 0401pwjRkNgnx2j7pMCw2u0ifSzFaHrJComyVq7oMwBLQIcyuc cvEBkOUIkCVg1RcumyYnGpC1hFjOopN5fZYC8ztXHzkCvu2lyD tql44kh/mwDwnQJWJ+1HZKxB2iNCcJFo6zwNCWNWOE/H1m21PXrmbBhMmwUdLQr3725fgOnDKGKHz+2WvxwgsvxhyRYxe V6LBfEdnuEf+Ck/bhFqMRo1g+mw+3qVljBvUw0wVB9h6dq9OelazOKidWDGAYXIoO 9AGWV0avGZCAMpZVQ4QdL8aqSCngAxIhbuFh5NpyWn2QQzkE/cg/REetAtfryWsI+FwixY4F9mcQ1Sp2fT2XZknlb9sAXYrXSLDttM pEBNeBbo7Rb7legMtsvrmDsWTMLa/nt52kBZFeAylynYsMOp4GRHjILI10/Dnr8e0UgpoG/MihNACYs9UeLC6TLn7E00aq8czlC/FDTOZNrLKfffmzMYfSnZucigsXzsT5q+di+f6D2MJC6xywJBhe +aGmNhS2xVNFdjHJSszHsWCc5apYwfdSfOf9m1lZSVoz9ik1bZ M7qenJqzuUbXy39MtCRBWIIRfTAVVkd5s5osbVSvhfhmwEtjux DwAAF3BJREFUmGXDUrQz8kyWWc7UElAQR5NIdIO2NLVFkhxxAL e7InGTpKAAc+KXE42TM2yPc0SQotLvGTCWCHyJMN6SK4hKl5E6 BYYkLjZlNZzaU8eCtIzAQ7T5B8LN+Da5t8kNxVzLyqFjU/ExDJ1C0A41Attgu2L8De/8gLKnbWz85Tt3Yv5Fpgwint5+6zoP/5uLeUxVo8jTzGJWnH3vO9/D6uNhSiSfHLgANKTivBzSWXQcY4GwywOKQ848cREnmPAM09d9W uMhRR+uxTYhpzPgAf7QQI8bwtAvSWqEAgVSDYTkFBYGjwLit5F zgaGf5hrX7MddyEccyDrcG/JI019EjAAQl7dsKrpBassJVSj8Mzi9t4m0yz1NuEvudUtEJP/YUqEp8pM2ODnbSE7DqmPI6E1Mb4wMOUIHW4SrwzAfsi3T5TWIT EuvRwLJ9LccKNJPbqcQZA5f6nfKexvRNI4Sf/nTT8fD5RVmsS3hE03EI4rL73/wYTz/qRdoGDkPMnYoYr/H4FwXp0Liax/dcEDn9jGbrcTM5+EB+ElSBIuHa/Fo38eXsZYBOoHDVLwQWmLAVs0oHoSr1FclsZXryQF8KVelW4Nr GsS2LNTQOvRRZOqcPm5ApqEZaC42Qd8ctG1p7CoiU9ILOJU5XN rn02M+B2LYiAl6yhlvAtWFpIrrQDwIz4UmuNbgp3pGpJgM9OEY haHg2YZvEM2MPwvspQ/umiKTaxRxItySYLO/Xe53cGCZG/sL3vsEjuDDExus2ibAaDzsAdHihbsP8B/G44WXPsttqvHBwv0UW0PEvHxMy/ohswOYt+OMAAFgFWqDUH2PFXR3COOXeaSMftGAAsJGfziuUc05 hen+2sr7cbfN0604x3T1+AE1ZdQktCHaLgAvI6NcXsxZDlpegt jVcZtG2wFqg1xMet8ilftmyhmRUiTBMBRAZhOuMrhZxcorkXnV 8nKpyhaIa2HZ6ZeYG/LhHDuIYbGpAaK0kmq8d0bwAbl60SSd+1yJuOAlZQK/OZ5/EBa3pB3+5SyIyqbMQckh+xTAuHRnEz9KXS8h+pQzucwTDaSe3E 4hqE3iyYbvLyzGt197M/4KX+cGKxq2sHqGCPW/9fZ7WFXcFE7wMS+uEvVobY1nyX1AbsFEHeJteJylucj1wNQ+d2 eaV4nztgGC3DBJweAG3vcGRGBAUdnvhFqj3+oLY3qO0sFpUaXc ZoBpSfHJaZm1dMqKRKEfIuV6XeZeAHSuVQ3yDOfkAwG5j4FSfQ 3PTX0lgABOiifvTVve1FUawSFwwByXSwBc6jb2GewUif52TW11 k9xhG4pJ++z9uhCSkW5NcbdRRLsGgXE6V4XcIQbnp9zkFBaJ7L gaNy84ejsl4nqsVrjAbOi/ws/ZBvBNWP9bGAwT1JdZ4mSYR7NSGbvBTdZRsKvLD2J3dROlTISaQ sAlKHaJ5Nw+51ShuFmQeQHkbh5sxUPMfq24Gm33MRaKxf4ADh3 NahhNWYCYpiziwE2l7uAkz0JWC2J/AhwsoT4c5p4UOVIxwDre5DKVd+ZgAIIAUZzk5n64x1hcRg1sxe NaZpj6At/HmRnsFFECUDM7HVhvIRbZCp3VJKVBytxwEjDJJ1pybB9Dy22It VCncdIdkuL0AA7S0R0lhWJUQeuQlvPcx9+OevrxrllWYV9hFae 7tz/MBVddgdDHYlrCdO3aE/Hq519NSbmGafr+ndvx1ptvxQpF7jUCn8P1CVaIOoj3ePDSMgha XV1jsSNLbZkKSPGHkeIH6LVtKRDLTNglIrDOSmkFYQ2hXzRf1Q FSlXkogTPEwPW6dfSS0hmMvwW+AEpOyvMLE7lABPTsP1BR9otV kaemKDx8D8KRfCg+DTVlAhJw+ARMz1Hnifx8ZI8nKsOAiRFy20 uYsk/O2kOEWcswzYoidSzG5ELGIZJ8fqtEJpLktEMsyC3qwA/I+ro/A7kC5MR2ioM2V5YohKC4gsLv8fPz8dd+6kvxy//eL5H0It0M67/40ouxwbyc773+/VSWDcxfHwdTJTpdqYzjmDKRdm8Tkej8T4wMVoy6hhIltcRxVgp BXCwzN+fRHsZD9oe3FFHME9KMJtYmpVoI7yLoThN06XzFoJvIE HCORaArv3POKb8L5KkHQIJcwnn5NBfOSw5AwYt0t+REkQXMtdZ 0ZofJQSUn0h9T/cmhIojrTTOILB9pVtQcHM2sA922pdg7BBHG6Qy+6p9tOgeJ+9m/LVwXkTAFoc7Pn8GF4fGgIOchwecp/E5jj12neZzYTiHor/7iDWqWz7FyxwymJo4mjueNW7fiPLVmwxZpIBK2EW3bTJZ9+ZVX smxql7rmEjmWQY1iQSYnnYXVFwgDVaA0lwRzHeumvghp4EMQfR tT/hGD4bHtDBbT1FlyQNzlW6pMZfRRMCmTMUuy+IRBHnOJHKDF5Nr bGf2V+lNxez0AdIBHyBGJ/Oc+kZeRY1HAAZ9rl4/b5AQRJHGkU0zbWoQoxDxfThb4YAE6QsTyVyc5V4biRIgcl5ZZc maZpwrzOFCkwyxSx3vuEDnxoe7q6k2qk4y/TRH5PzzD2g4YYYo7OUix6fknt1MIevv6zRiCAqdhw9tEd98gfe ATF198htWeCPFrehqaH8Ucv0J0oQ2bfti+R8oXZQfQtrC8BJwZ 0D6fw4iNaYKhzz79BOvVbMUShR4f8uBZ3DKkAyNXvIEku6YpK0 CMY7lJsbwl5SnTcxCcKYCNzYk0qbMQb8U1jrHgpIJT/C5SpXI3wH70XWC7o4gWqG9U4EP4SDvtXThPyw3OgbLBDZimr7S hs9xHZ43jbqgbdxD12T4nWdRoensTv9FSr2kQ4TUmPyUifas1H H0jB/OscuKTxLQeFXXFYxRO66BTCBqmo7du45Qi3kbhii3Mwg/u3YFjduMSrGnZ7db2Zjz17FNxZp7QDs7lxvZo3OCRlh8+WOJxy yTimBoygy4bIqu6j/FQw+Teh9IWVlaZ9LvHvFLidOgPLSwtsAzVM36jBsJBc9hCdUWf CBAAigeBDZ2BmEK8KIbkkaQ8gKiip5Xcx1uKKGnANosHHOoQfs xpxYw8AM4JItl2TUnso8AViWAog6ZJAMQI1Xm+1FeWBkwRRVH0 blDBmv2Ew+ogWP3iWgpDGFazSCIJSlN8ByfeLO7yMpngy1eyJO zg/f0MMdHbRKb9fnw7haApBtiisGOS3Pz888/Ha++zLgDm8J2lBSyPXWqguYRBThNRGCYtUB2txlNPXoz3ln8QD 1Z5OnBpCr8IUUghYoVE2bSlUlDTHfTWLr7LIyy3XfycFt6jKWD nI2k+S3mKLrlGw0HfQSC5mq+b5rl6RWDKeX4XMUUsDMHj/kQyCGKsAiWnggjoRF4xfjlIjHFqOr4GYhvExiQCLdQhCiNHWqx 1TR+SM9CdnpsiVvOf5jUgzNLWG4cZZB3BJ3QNhVZGyW17kNxx//79ePLpp1j2mXm13FMie4RUUuQ9xIqdZiVhrzXtrX6XUU9upxBU Rx9UMauHkNFPXLqIvuC52SuLCZRtdJLLE3/uxc/FNTKZo4R6WjwofXJsNn76My/E8sZhvH6PWB3TEztcP0wIZYh0wBKO3RZ3srR3GSrdA7BSJ3uOg AwQBCRRL8Yh6R8BMcHITwxQgGOOyQiBXnz6Tpq9nktzmAbZljp BYDy+OXABUJjSEIJ6j3PSmDgyHBRnIn4SMd7G/1GEyhXZFtfm/EVRRWOpHyHUPXSQQD9//nwi9iEWa5NAcZu2RPYGzzlqEH25coX5sVhvEpRcug+CfACInGm Fkb/Tf4MoTm6nEDROXOsQWPkQpTKRawsGyyg2qd3HvTz3/HPx/Kc/heXmc6+ZS4rpXEckfeaJa6wmtR3X7yNjMbhMcbvcS8PQDxy02t yJpU1S5hgAHbgTIxFRxjpqdkpuAFBSbFI4vVQnHDtuIs/fDjCpGuBaI5dKnWs58NF1QpCfxcan83jcNN0FQopDfnuK3Ki1J aDc1EFS9LE5L1I7IEnuzAg4+qcNsdWMDdIf9eU2lqrxwvPolLm 5OcxmUoO0Y7GlrzU4RbFp1naUtrVkFdTGPNcJQus32V+l8yfJK rtE7ObExrD5Q/bT+PrKCvVoBBeBwQ6YN3cxhnGgjPaBFxOkJIYoFqmi3Icws19+ 4VPx2s3bsXuXsA/mco9MapO5PSM8bXF7mwoeONDFHggP5HL+coz/SDc6qNiSghBN5A0GWS4kFlGySduMAER5LOv0AFyPwVm35ghV5C JShiq48+OBiQywk0SQe/nun/cSSSJETtGi0keRCNzkjvwOsbl4RVa15jLLJtowGBBpirVtDAWN Ap+WrONrTG8IcS5XuirxCnHM0THX62aGBJJgEt3leOWcZkaxHY PW6Sl0/AgEwf51Gs6RIhuvzp6PEnb6CqPcpSMLi4tMvmU2JcUX1R7BxRJ PnKfhYTpw9twgXmARvCWWlaQGJA7QIwsk5h68/37maigaxdLDp+Eewzyl6gDqbgNZmAoqNUyDIgaB1tO5qpXPSBV 5RFSOvGxMXii3OuCxzfIEcDRko4lc9gXMkwppt/BzFHdcDPfrTx1vUrDiTSSpy9QvhfK30od+cGLWD3BNmuZwkrpK hIl8w17yZB23gxagNzjJugvS7lq5RgacIjPPI3RsS7dkaWk5nn 3qKa5xrSB0HVzVQgx6PzlU4jq2NI/76SeY+OSmkkZVQKkAgxuXsVheeOLJeOHpZ1OZvv/hbdaVWMqosLXPJrscoNAZx5y+ig81jxz3+QejZEsZFetaY05yr mxcIROrHtk3YQO7u8RYHa6wKB1Ti4IRy1AEjAYCuRniVHQnCUa nVBFldEHjIIOQAE/9A8iTi1KXyEm8RIkhf8afYkwuUX/ZhqLG6huRKkd6vuPQszcNkDO6ud5zjzlJkSeHaHp7rmEf/TT71YLLTPjl8+gYqKa0RSXWd7g4xiY6ZwlOclEmiSH1IB2Ug7N ejvtkYtKxPrad4ikjLtlpqRskqfTOYjqehWWnpx/Fh3fu4Lh+mOJmnse4SLMjVNj0WkxJJNxz+cK5XHH3AYuCdwG4Z rnUqGKVO6RAIlX5agDout6zbMLg69REl3Vak19AOkATXX0KQdr OQQV5SnD9Ji0+V6ay0rTQKwWt5XfEh5TLgRxqIsZvAiM/8j2PfbTPX5yv3lBXHOKzyD3ex00kmSKvM54R4oqHJdL6Fpgkwu 2qNXWUC4tskDfgfLnb61xv23MfkFqfmBpPNbGFjvc81xnnxjmG 7HPe7eO3Uxw0BBCt98K9QbcwJvRIn8isVD2KbKXXsYS1cv2DO6 QelnP1wT38og56yYfATuP/zM8wPR7guVriCCVQdeNaDER91aiQfgDsKXbSNIJLBYCoYKqhCz 6o/MFoXOOpj/NMly+Tcjf8BNlmeElxIzCtxJSqBWJGttl9JNFsPjdPFYg5UD4F pPkrq360qFwhWEPACL4EIWLSYQUR6ggj2xoRglG9oQ/k/SQ8IwBybMGBlJhxrQ6pFqBmuOcft+WaP/bZ6ii5T4MrXQWuV7Tk4iGJrKLfx++nOGikMdI9aO0La/L6UAOKo0tx4TBUNYbM1Xs+oDpnhQW/XehihpnWPOg3J0ZZEcpoUJgETkFMjTAR8EkR5eqEioN9Fhjvyz UQgqsp+pwDgl2IPuUwpq4USMHIPKVUP3P5QgZf9dYPBKhIgYtc rCifZiX0Fce2hfXp0mB65CJL60zEGMSUS0Sqv0WQL3YmEv0mW3 mswv21znZxJi3GN8ApgPM6jhd6qstMS2fImaou6rh9ZJybdW2u 562BoHUqIuRodeQICNGE38Yf1ImdxlCwNFkiUY95HggHGJ/ckrAe3zU8PcUzi6BiaM56tA7VOXs8M9ulLH0qvdHaLJmlpOoQE eZUkT3E4AZAXHtEFRDxJnWEiSg9dQGkTB+lZk2/wge8ugpIPWsPNBrM3RQUreXXQjeVQOyLczPxeSptnp+bjRkswb qD5VqXi1YJq+QzP0TnNYEVXsdIKEQeBwCqr2PEmAn1mtyXiIIz +Cl3pwUop8Aqh1QlZQkwSBBJnm8wUyWuSFKUySVyj4iSk7RwZV qny7hJNOqkvDf3tE+KRs/TB/J6EWy/aTjvP3fmTOGVZwvF2ykEXfipn3okhWXOB3zWETldELAP4F1BcJ a0g1P8MAqpJeDBSgzG5/asbe7GXdIOi1hwG5zrwBNJWGI1HF+CKVAjyUBCJlpi0ornOCi+ 5QTcprOAmVFweWwI7rkc81DXOTjpLOZpDVO+Qr+y7oDr+yCra/0BrG6VjwWHGdgEaGnBAVSlQCJL68S7sE9/yJc3FniKtZy/4z6xw6dUfYixUIfrk6gAproPKPJf9FgAp48EcK0EUvkLcBs2DK QYFBmeY+5HmGq5uZitRLIOknyIlIaOvzUWvvpzP8uCeJ/cTiHoya/9Rz9wKOko0hdFj4966dFhp3pMEMkdh12VmTssjb9K+e7D3SbRg w7P12b5Y6K5Is5yW4diR7Wk5KZcJBCxBt+kxWIbzg9F40BFxuV 4Wj3F71+5ejWeVkYjaqaxWq4Sz2I3epE3BpM6QXhyB5c0c3OQ+ QQw9ho0oaQOBBRiLc8EoQJJa8/fIs4/KViuSGXNNQksRJZTJvXyFc3HYk6EivzCxDdZKJIQZUgMxzlGWO s4AWjlqk9tUUdqIBkoFQ4uB2DZlZwp8uYxILyWUNbgP/+t/wzYf3I7haDzX/zyH730t35jBYgxUP6ECfb6PiLM2Wcuz2+dtPkRpzmuUNt8e5Uo NXN/VpgY/ABO2oXN21ItHUougt2RSpjp+AdMbSmzkDdFOwCJAaDnBGYFx3c Iyn3pzGx8dn6GdaSpB4fbtPSeOj/L/B5SE4jcnOpP0+lvqHsQoV38CgtM7HGuEQQQJQ6JLCs4RWwi1MH LJR4VNX7yTf3HuYo5UGTHUsQ10bUGjBV3GgAiiEOJJJlPPSMn+ XnMMYpz9XSa4bSnCExYKd55yTFpIHAn3RTbnEI3/ebf/s2Vr371q39kfx7fTiGIg1//4u/+Tz944tVXt+y/swtcuKFJhWibtMOILA1VpX7BPN6nNErkfLC8xgKv67GKvtoi3N FxMIg3TVX0fjEAwkINlsGvUtLrqvIaB9pv6o4qzt+nCR99hbjW FBzWpmaBiJiFBKxMxcrw1IlbQSMg0UL0QV+i0AdSZ+Zq4CYBmN WfIDZ9DO7gp/3QanJMyVmMSXGVzmGafIWlJ1er02zHNbMVX3zN5FrBufAd900O 9CQatH1rD4xiu4kUxaYLznpcUcdN4aLC4HApAZFov12g4ytf/vLWP/j7f1/u+brXP75Vfvd3f/fx337fpkRq4uqv/NpId+3B6MbN62NMhSy5nAnGaDSw5mBe5vhgy2iR6S8BtAMi102 AjBuD0sca4hyfHcdoCkDJUYzHXRU67BOxOpycK4/Q9hVY/5eeejo+iyk/IB9jbZk11WYv+xSd7PK6s0oZsnyC9ej8JXF8iF7z0TEaa+n8wQ GKFJGkCFOspHPqyACSLpcdEUlgKMWVfHT8koGSk0CafozRbbkz U+IQRa7Rw37bLpCeDTLGQo/onIpAOSo5jrZdLsC25LZCxNI23+GowW987Wsr/8f//vvfIzz0zzj1G7w+sZ0ys4+O/n6lMXT51f/xf+4/+bf/k5nb/+wfXbn/1jenl3bXKIEfVKdAUrmEyJMaQYDdLZ7DzQ6oSuA79By0QPE8Gn ZdOD14ZzS3QG6L5b7yOeAM5gKy+MW5+WhQgL/rRDEQpGnhTazsOUdRoabqDtdoJR6yEJKreBxi1iqCSswP7RDLA//oGsNGIAz9lTkf+lSEdkSNyCm4xfBPGgh2zs3bca1FksbFFM9tx Hv6WuBBDnL1YduSG02BeI2XmxEu+TSNAl9pkqexQv8xPPPcrCQ dVLrnL1xovfrLv7L5W7/1dxa++IUvMN093uT1+7xObRDXce9OHfvJjh8DCPwoHfRj0K2fd OEYAj9B0DEkfkw/f4KgH1PEHHfr/wUF0TNYC290sgAAAABJRU5ErkJggg==
UtahCoachWhitt
Here I am @espn700bill. It took a while, but isn't it really more about executing the tweets than the tempo of the tweets? #goutes
9/3/13 8:25 AM (https://twitter.com/utahcoachwhitt/status/374900960067219458)




LOL.

[Scorcho]

add this to the things that you never want to hear your head coach say (especisally during the season) ....

Bronco - "all of the offense line positions are up for grabs"

what's that old adage, "if you have 2 qb's, you really have none." If you're rotating 10 lineman, what do you really have?

[U-Ute]

add this to the things that you never want to hear your head coach say (especisally during the season) ....

Bronco - "all of the offense line positions are up for grabs"

what's that old adage, "if you have 2 qb's, you really have none." If you're rotating 10 lineman, what do you really have?

A loss on week 1.

[UtahsMrSports]

I get a kick out of BYU. So one hand, Jamal Williams says in the Gordon Monson article that BYU will start making teams "bow to their will" and that he learned from Saturday that with hard work they can beat anybody. At the same time, Bronco is saying that all 5 offensive line positions are being battled for? ALL 5!?!?!?!?!?

[SoCalPat]

I get a kick out of BYU. So one hand, Jamal Williams says in the Gordon Monson article that BYU will start making teams "bow to their will" and that he learned from Saturday that with hard work they can beat anybody. At the same time, Bronco is saying that all 5 offensive line positions are being battled for? ALL 5!?!?!?!?!?

Is it just because I'm a Utah fan and paid attention to what BYU did for so many years or are there more college football teams out there with a history of players who write as many checks that their mouths can't cash?

[Bacana Ute]

I get a kick out of BYU. So one hand, Jamal Williams says in the Gordon Monson article that BYU will start making teams "bow to their will" and that he learned from Saturday that with hard work they can beat anybody. At the same time, Bronco is saying that all 5 offensive line positions are being battled for? ALL 5!?!?!?!?!?

The fact that you even bothered to read a Gordon Monson article is amusing to me.

[SoCalPat]

The fact that you even bothered to read a Gordon Monson article is amusing to me.

You need to check the thickness of your skin. Monson is an equal-opportunity skewer, and napalmed BYU in his latest column.

[USS Utah]

You need to check the thickness of your skin. Monson is an equal-opportunity skewer, and napalmed BYU in his latest column.

Brady Poppinga is not pleased.

[Scratch]

Brady Poppinga is not pleased.

Why not? It felt like a win to him.

[USS Utah]

Why not? It felt like a win to him.

Monson wrote another column that was critical of BYU, no doubt pointing out the obvious.

[UtahDan]

Brady Poppinga is not pleased.

Someone needs to administer Gordon another orthodoxy test.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Someone needs to administer Gordon another orthodoxy test.

O-M-Flippin-G that was one of the most uncomfortable moments in the history of live radio. Has Fox Sports given him his walking papers yet?

[LA Ute]

The fact that you even bothered to read a Gordon Monson article is amusing to me.


Is it just because I'm a Utah fan and paid attention to what BYU did for so many years or are there more college football teams out there with a history of players who write as many checks that their mouths can't cash?

For some strange reason, I was just now wondering what it must be like to be Monson. It is a depressing thought: His miserable professional existence seems to focus on writing or saying things he knows are idiotic, just so he can get a rise out of his audience and attract attention to his efforts, such as they are. (Shudder.)


"It's men in shorts."

-- Rick Majerus

[USS Utah]

I'll just leave this here as it somehow seems appropriate:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdrISbwy_zI

[SoCalPat]

Brandon Ogletree was a bit of a dork on the football field, but his blog is excellent. This is the kind of stuff you find at smartfootball.com, and quite frankly, his football knowledge should (will?) be put to better use in the college game. We're sorely lacking this kind of detailed insight from any of our ex-players currently.

http://ogletreefootball.com/

[LA Ute]

Brandon Ogletree was a bit of a dork on the football field, but his blog is excellent. This is the kind of stuff you find at smartfootball.com, and quite frankly, his football knowledge should (will?) be put to better use in the college game. We're sorely lacking this kind of detailed insight from any of our ex-players currently.

http://ogletreefootball.com/

I was impressed too. He writes well.


"It's men in shorts."

-- Rick Majerus

[UteBeliever aka Port]

Brandon Ogletree was a bit of a dork on the football field, but his blog is excellent. This is the kind of stuff you find at smartfootball.com, and quite frankly, his football knowledge should (will?) be put to better use in the college game. We're sorely lacking this kind of detailed insight from any of our ex-players currently.

http://ogletreefootball.com/

All his stupid antics aside, I actually think Kyle Gunther does a good job when he talks Xs and Os. His problem is that his format is a 3 hour radio program and not a blog. As such, he gets off in the tall grass quite often...talking about UFOs and cats.

When he settles down and talks football, he's better than anyone on Utah radio.

[LA Ute]

All his stupid antics aside, I actually think Kyle Gunther does a good job when he talks Xs and Os. His problem is that his format is a 3 hour radio program and not a blog. As such, he gets off in the tall grass quite often...talking about UFOs and cats.

When he settles down and talks football, he's better than anyone on Utah radio.

It would help his radio show if he started a blog. I wonder if he has ever thought of that?


"It's men in shorts."

-- Rick Majerus

[SoCalPat]

It would help his radio show if he started a blog. I wonder if he has ever thought of that?

Epiphany: We do have a former player who writes detailed and insightful Xs and Os stuff on Utah football. The catch is, it's Hans Olsen. And he doesn't do it nearly enough.

[LA Ute]

Epiphany: We do have a former player who writes detailed and insightful Xs and Os stuff on Utah football. The catch is, it's Hans Olsen. And he doesn't do it nearly enough.

I was just thinking about him myself. It would be great if he would write three or four paragraphs a few times a week


"It's men in shorts."

-- Rick Majerus

[tooblue]

It’s been a crazy past several days but I’m here to take my lumps. I’m exhausted and happy to be back at work. This past weekend, I managed to take 14 Venture Scouts only three of which—my offspring had ever been to a football game. And what a first game experience it was. Thunder, lightning, torrential rain and the type of first game of the season let down I have come to expect from BYU under coach Mendenhal. The boys, especially my own sons, did enjoy it. Below are my thoughts on the game:



A week ago if you told me the Virginia QB would outplay Taysom Hill I would have rolled my eyes and just figured you were stoned out of your gourd like a Ute frosh sigma chi wannabe at Reggae Fest. Mostly, all I was hoping for was average play from the sophomore. What a nightmare.
The Cougars offensive line is bad. Seriously bad. I bet Utahby5 could field a better front with Mormon Red Death at Center, Senioritis and Utah Dan at the guard positions, adding any and all takers at the tackle positions. Something is seriously wrong with the universe when BYU can’t field a decent offensive line.
I told y’all BYU never gets beat by an opponent and that they only beat themselves. Of course, that’s a pretty accurate statement with regards to this particular game. How pathetic. This team is going to struggle to bend gum to its will. :mad:
A couple of years ago I thought the worst decision of the Bronco era was chasing off Dr. Robert Anae. His second worst decision might well be having brought him back.
This game only proved to confirm what we all knew. BYU travels well. There were more than just a lot of BYU fans at the game. Enough to out chant the UV crowd at certain points, especially after the lightning delay. It was an impressive sight. Comparatively speaking, in recent years, I have been to both the Utah at Michigan and Notre Dame games. Utah does not travel well. It’s no contest.
University of Virginia fans remind me a lot of Utah fans: not particularly knowledgeable, even indifferent and mostly there for the cultural aspects of the game. It felt a lot like being at Rice Eccles on a Saturday. They were pleasant though. And none of us got beer thrown on us so that’s a plus.

[Applejack]

It’s been a crazy past several days but I’m here to take my lumps. I’m exhausted and happy to be back at work. This past weekend, I managed to take 14 Venture Scouts only three of which—my offspring had ever been to a football game. And what a first game experience it was. Thunder, lightning, torrential rain and the type of first game of the season let down I have come to expect from BYU under coach Mendenhal. The boys, especially my own sons, did enjoy it. Below are my thoughts on the game:



A week ago if you told me the Virginia QB would outplay Taysom Hill I would have rolled my eyes and just figured you were stoned out of your gourd like a Ute frosh sigma chi wannabe at Reggae Fest. Mostly, all I was hoping for was average play from the sophomore. What a nightmare.
The Cougars offensive line is bad. Seriously bad. I bet Utahby5 could field a better front with Mormon Red Death at Center, Senioritis and Utah Dan at the guard positions, adding any and all takers at the tackle positions. Something is seriously wrong with the universe when BYU can’t field a decent offensive line.
I told y’all BYU never gets beat by an opponent and that they only beat themselves. Of course, that’s a pretty accurate statement with regards to this particular game. How pathetic. This team is going to struggle to bend gum to its will. :mad:
A couple of years ago I thought the worst decision of the Bronco era was chasing off Dr. Robert Anae. His second worst decision might well be having brought him back.
This game only proved to confirm what we all knew. BYU travels well. There were more than just a lot of BYU fans at the game. Enough to out chant the UV crowd at certain points, especially after the lightning delay. It was an impressive sight. Comparatively speaking, in recent years, I have been to both the Utah at Michigan and Notre Dame games. Utah does not travel well. It’s no contest.
University of Virginia fans remind me a lot of Utah fans: not particularly knowledgeable, even indifferent and mostly there for the cultural aspects of the game. It felt a lot like being at Rice Eccles on a Saturday. They were pleasant though. And none of us got beer thrown on us so that’s a plus.



LOL. Great post! Toolblue is this board's #1 troll and it's not even close.

[LA Ute]

LOL. Great post! Toolblue is this board's #1 troll and it's not even close.

But he does it in a nice way. The scoundrel.

[Utah]

It’s been a crazy past several days but I’m here to take my lumps. I’m exhausted and happy to be back at work. This past weekend, I managed to take 14 Venture Scouts only three of which—my offspring had ever been to a football game. And what a first game experience it was. Thunder, lightning, torrential rain and the type of first game of the season let down I have come to expect from BYU under coach Mendenhal. The boys, especially my own sons, did enjoy it. Below are my thoughts on the game:



A week ago if you told me the Virginia QB would outplay Taysom Hill I would have rolled my eyes and just figured you were stoned out of your gourd like a Ute frosh sigma chi wannabe at Reggae Fest. Mostly, all I was hoping for was average play from the sophomore. What a nightmare.
The Cougars offensive line is bad. Seriously bad. I bet Utahby5 could field a better front with Mormon Red Death at Center, Senioritis and Utah Dan at the guard positions, adding any and all takers at the tackle positions. Something is seriously wrong with the universe when BYU can’t field a decent offensive line.
I told y’all BYU never gets beat by an opponent and that they only beat themselves. Of course, that’s a pretty accurate statement with regards to this particular game. How pathetic. This team is going to struggle to bend gum to its will. :mad:
A couple of years ago I thought the worst decision of the Bronco era was chasing off Dr. Robert Anae. His second worst decision might well be having brought him back.
This game only proved to confirm what we all knew. BYU travels well. There were more than just a lot of BYU fans at the game. Enough to out chant the UV crowd at certain points, especially after the lightning delay. It was an impressive sight. Comparatively speaking, in recent years, I have been to both the Utah at Michigan and Notre Dame games. Utah does not travel well. It’s no contest.
University of Virginia fans remind me a lot of Utah fans: not particularly knowledgeable, even indifferent and mostly there for the cultural aspects of the game. It felt a lot like being at Rice Eccles on a Saturday. They were pleasant though. And none of us got beer thrown on us so that’s a plus.



Yeah. He got me again. I read it, got all fired up, then realized that I need to pay attention to who is posting. I usually have no clue who the poster is, I just respond to what they wrote.

[codered]

Call me crazy, but I actually think BYU will play pretty well against Texas this weekend. I only saw the first quarter and then last 5 minutes of the VA game and BYU looked like Tooele High. But BYU at home seem to always find a way to play big against big schools. They are a very emotional team (understatement, I know) and I could see their adrenalin carrying them through much of this game. IF, however, Texas plays through that and is able to punch BYU in the throat a few times in the first half, the BYU crowd and players alike will no longer be a factor.

[LA Ute]

Call me crazy, but I actually think BYU will play pretty well against Texas this weekend. I only saw the first quarter and then last 5 minutes of the VA game and BYU looked like Tooele High. But BYU at home seem to always find a way to play big against big schools. They are a very emotional team (understatement, I know) and I could see their adrenalin carrying them through much of this game. IF, however, Texas plays through that and is able to punch BYU in the throat a few times in the first half, the BYU crowd and players alike will no longer be a factor.

Maybe. I just think BYU will have no answer for UT's speed and athleticism. A lot depends on whether the BYU players have been living right on and off the field. Magic may happen.

[SoCalPat]

Call me crazy, but I actually think BYU will play pretty well against Texas this weekend. I only saw the first quarter and then last 5 minutes of the VA game and BYU looked like Tooele High. But BYU at home seem to always find a way to play big against big schools. They are a very emotional team (understatement, I know) and I could see their adrenalin carrying them through much of this game. IF, however, Texas plays through that and is able to punch BYU in the throat a few times in the first half, the BYU crowd and players alike will no longer be a factor.

Texas -7.5 appears to be stealing candy from a baby. Which of course has me on full alert that BYU comes ready to play. Vegas is wrong, but they're not THAT wrong that often.

[Scratch]

Maybe. I just think BYU will have no answer for UT's speed and athleticism. A lot depends on whether the BYU players have been living right on and off the field. Magic may happen.

Magic may happen, but given Texas's athletes, if Texas jumps out early I could see a repeat of the FSU game from 2009.

[codered]

:clap: Magic indeed. Having said all that, I still wouldn't bet money on BYU. But wouldn't be totally shocked to see them do well against Texas.


Maybe. I just think BYU will have no answer for UT's speed and athleticism. A lot depends on whether the BYU players have been living right on and off the field. Magic may happen.

[tooblue]

But he does it in a nice way. The scoundrel.

I may be many things, but a scoundrel? Yah, yah I know I'm supposedly trolling but look, I met you at the Notre Dame game. We both saw how many Ute fans were there. Sincerely, the BYU presence at the Virginia game was impressive by comparison. I know there were some Ute fans there, likely Utah Dan and others. If they want to speak up and contradict my observations they are more than welcome to join this thread. What's more, I spent a good deal of my childhood watching football at Rice Eccles Stadium. I know the fan base well. My parents and siblings are season ticket holders. They are knowledgable, diehard fans of the Utes and college football. But really, the rest of the fan base is plagued by a good many bandwagoners who are only there for the "cultural" aspects. I sat in front of or behind such fans many times over the years.

Sometimes the truth hurts but that doesn't mean it should not be shared. By the way, can I watch the Utes this Saturday on TV? I guess I will have to wait until they play someone more significant so that I can tune in to a channel that does not require some form of streaming.

[NorthwestUteFan]

LOL. Great post! Toolblue is this board's #1 troll and it's not even close.

He overreaches by throwing Sigma Chi under the dope bus.

But other than that it is brilliant.

[hostile]

He overreaches by throwing Sigma Chi under the dope bus.

But other than that it is brilliant.

Exactly. No one at the Sigmachi house ever smoked weed

[LA Ute]

I may be many things, but a scoundrel? Yah, yah I know I'm supposedly trolling but look, I met you at the Notre Dame game. We both saw how many Ute fans were there. Sincerely, the BYU presence at the Virginia game was impressive by comparison. I know there were some Ute fans there, likely Utah Dan and others. If they want to speak up and contradict my observations they are more than welcome to join this thread. What's more, I spent a good deal of my childhood watching football at Rice Eccles Stadium. I know the fan base well. My parents and siblings are season ticket holders. They are knowledgable, diehard fans of the Utes and college football. But really, the rest of the fan base is plagued by a good many bandwagoners who are only there for the "cultural" aspects. I sat in front of or behind such fans many times over the years.

Sometimes the truth hurts but that doesn't mean it should not be shared. By the way, can I watch the Utes this Saturday on TV? I guess I will have to wait until they play someone more significant so that I can tune in to a channel that does not require some form of streaming.

771

[UBlender]

Call me crazy, but I actually think BYU will play pretty well against Texas this weekend. I only saw the first quarter and then last 5 minutes of the VA game and BYU looked like Tooele High. But BYU at home seem to always find a way to play big against big schools. They are a very emotional team (understatement, I know) and I could see their adrenalin carrying them through much of this game. IF, however, Texas plays through that and is able to punch BYU in the throat a few times in the first half, the BYU crowd and players alike will no longer be a factor.

I might be alone in this thinking but a part of me wouldn't mind seeing BYU take Texas down. A loss for Texas is always a good thing, but more importantly I'm leery of a desperate BYU team still looking for its first win and coming off a bye week. If BYU goes 0-2 then the Utah game is their whole season. With a bye week to prepare it will absolutely be a "kitchen sink" game for BYU. Even if BYU beats Texas they will still have a lot of motivation for the Utah game based on recent rivalry history, but I don't think they'd have the same edge.

I wouldn't mind seeing them beat Texas and start thinking they are back on their way to the BCS (it doesn't take much to convince them of this, see their response to the UVa game). Sadly, their offense looks inept and I think Texas' speed will expose their secondary, so....

[UteBeliever aka Port]

I might be alone in this thinking but a part of me wouldn't mind seeing BYU take Texas down. A loss for Texas is always a good thing, but more importantly I'm leery of a desperate BYU team still looking for its first win and coming off a bye week. If BYU goes 0-2 then the Utah game is their whole season. With a bye week to prepare it will absolutely be a "kitchen sink" game for BYU. Even if BYU beats Texas they will still have a lot of motivation for the Utah game based on recent rivalry history, but I don't think they'd have the same edge.

I wouldn't mind seeing them beat Texas and start thinking they are back on their way to the BCS (it doesn't take much to convince them of this, see their response to the UVa game). Sadly, their offense looks inept and I think Texas' speed will expose their secondary, so....

I see what you are saying, but if they lose to Texas and badly, they'll have zero confidence going into the Utah game. Their sphincters will tighter than a BYU coeds grip on an ice cream cone.

If they win, they have a large amount of confidence. "We beat Texas...is Utah really that big of a challenge at home?"

If BYU gets desperate and lacks confidence, comedy will ensue.

Really, I'm not going to feel bad one way or another.

[Scorcho]

I just don't see it. This looks like a Florida State type beatdown for BYU. I can't recall the last time BYU defeated a team with any sort of pulse (other than a WAC or MWC foe) and it's nearly impossible to pull off an upset with spotty offensive line play.

I think there's a real possibility that this is a 2-3 win season for BYU

[codered]

I have to side with PU on this one. I won't be upset if they do get the win, but I would rather have them tight and nervous coming into the Utah game. Let their pride work against them.


I see what you are saying, but if they lose to Texas and badly, they'll have zero confidence going into the Utah game. Their sphincters will tighter than a BYU coeds grip on an ice cream cone.

If they win, they have a large amount of confidence. "We beat Texas...is Utah really that big of a challenge at home?"

If BYU gets desperate and lacks confidence, comedy will ensue.

Really, I'm not going to feel bad one way or another.

[LA Ute]

I don't care if they win or lose, but I always enjoy it when they lose. I love it when the Utes beat them. I also enjoy being only vaguely aware of who their players are and how they are doing. I can name 3 players on this year's BYU team: Taysom Hill, Cody Hoffman and Kyle Van Noy. Wait, Falslev too, for reasons that wouldn't make the young man happy. :D

[sancho]

I don't care if they win or lose, but I always enjoy it when they lose. I love it when the Utes beat them. I also enjoy being only vaguely aware of who their players are and how they are doing. I can name 3 players on this year's BYU team: Taysom Hill, Cody Hoffman and Kyle Van Noy. Wait, Falslev too, for reasons that wouldn't make the young man happy. :D

I can name those 4 plus Williams the RB....that is all for me. Is Lark still the backup QB? I do hope very much that they lose. I'm disappointed in fans who say they don't care. Wanting BYU to lose is a part of being a Utah fan -- vice versa for BYU fans.

There is no logic in the idea that BYU beating Texas would make them an easier opponent for us in two weeks.

[tooblue]

I can name those 4 plus Williams the RB....that is all for me. Is Lark still the backup QB? I do hope very much that they lose. I'm disappointed in fans who say they don't care. Wanting BYU to lose is a part of being a Utah fan -- vice versa for BYU fans.

There is no logic in the idea that BYU beating Texas would make them an easier opponent for us in two weeks.

Look at all the cuteness going on in this thread. LA et tous pretending to know very little about Utah's rival not named Colorado when in fact you know a great deal more than you likely should admit. Honestly, I’d love to know more about the Utes. Wish I could watch a game, not streamed (in HD!!!) but on TV. At best I can tell you that your QB used to play the big brother part in that Disney show. I think it was called icarly or something‽ His name was … oh forget it. I could look it up but I think I will just refer to him as the icarly Ute QB dude. And don’t you have a safety that spent too much time reliving long days and nights spent at Reggae fest? Is he a Sigma Chi? Is he playing this year?

In all seriousness you should hope BYU beats Texas this Saturday. It could only help your strength of schedule arguments. Go Cougars!

[Applejack]

HAHA. Toolblue owning this thread. LA and Sancho walking right into his trap, talking about how little they follow BYU, despite being prominent posters in the BYU thread.

[LA Ute]

HAHA. Toolblue owning this thread. LA and Sancho walking right into his trap, talking about how little they follow BYU, despite being prominent posters in the BYU thread.

Hey, whose side are you on? This is a fun thread, and tooblue is adding to it in his own trollish way. (BTW, do you see Sancho or me responding to the poor fellow?) To me part of the fun of the rivalry is never reading Dick Harmon and never joining any threads that are actually about BYU teams. For example, I watched have Jimmer play twice, for partial games in the NCAA tournament his senior year. I am proud of my BYU sports ignorance. Don't steal that from me!

[SoCalPat]

Sometimes the truth hurts but that doesn't mean it should not be shared. By the way, can I watch the Utes this Saturday on TV? I guess I will have to wait until they play someone more significant so that I can tune in to a channel that does not require some form of streaming.

Ute fans will gladly let BYU Fan trump the significance of having its own channel to broadcast games against FCS schools. Having 54-10 available on BYUTV.com in exchange for missing out on games like Weber State live is an exchange we're more than happy to live with. And in two weeks, I look forward to hearing Dave McCann and Gary Shiede trudge through another embarrassing BYU loss to Utah. Ute fans worldwide are happy for the service BYUTV.com provides.

[sancho]

HAHA. Toolblue owning this thread. LA and Sancho walking right into his trap, talking about how little they follow BYU, despite being prominent posters in the BYU thread.

I do hate BYU, and I probably always will. But I moved away from SLC 12 years ago, and now the only time I read anything about them is the odd occasion that they are in national news. I don't get the channels they usually play on, so I don't see their games. When they are on a channel I have, I usually avoid the game because I get mad when they win. I pretty much just see them once a year now against Utah. As you pointed out, I'm more than happy to rag on them online.

There was a time when I knew more about BYU's teams than their coaches did. It's been a while though.

I am still trying to adjust to the culture of this board. I've never been on a board where trolls are congratulated and patted on the back for their efforts. Give me some time to figure it out. I was not a Clayton Cougar or an East High Leopard, so I am a stranger in a strange land.

[LA Ute]

I do hate BYU, and I probably always will. But I moved away from SLC 12 years ago, and now the only time I read anything about them is the odd occasion that they are in national news. I don't get the channels they usually play on, so I don't see their games. When they are on a channel I have, I usually avoid the game because I get mad when they win. I pretty much just see them once a year now against Utah. As you pointed out, I'm more than happy to rag on them online.

There was a time when I knew more about BYU's teams than their coaches did. It's been a while though.

I am still trying to adjust to the culture of this board. I've never been on a board where trolls are congratulated and patted on the back for their efforts. Give me some time to figure it out. I was not a Clayton Cougar or an East High Leopard, so I am a stranger in a strange land.

Hang in, Sancho. You're the kind of poster we want around here. I actually have met tooblue and his family and have interacted with him often on non-sports topics. Yes, he is trolling but has no malice in him. I think of him as the eccentric uncle who lives in our attic and comes down for dinner now and then. :D As for all the Clayton and East guys here (not to mention Highland) that's just a weird coincidence that has me shaking my own head.


"It's men in shorts."

-- Rick Majerus

[tooblue]

Hang in, Sancho. You're the kind of poster we want around here. I actually have met tooblue and his family and have interacted with him often on mon-sports topics. Yes, he is trolling but has no malice in him. I think of him as the eccentric uncle who lives in our attic and comes down for dinner now and then. :D As for all the Clayton and East guys here (not to mention Highland) that's just a weird coincidence that has me shaking my own head.


"It's men in shorts."

-- Rick Majerus

LA is correct. I love and loath both fan bases equally. It's about time for me to head back up to the attic but I couldn't resist participating in this thread. I genuinely would've liked to see a couple of Utah games this season before they play BYU. Last week I was en route to Virginia and had to rely on Mormon Red Death to keep me updated with texts. This week there's little chance I will even be able to see a stream of the game online. Despite SoCalPat's bravado (that ride in the limo must've been real special) it's sad that I have to wait until they play the Cougars to see them on TV via a major cable or satellite channel, legitimately and nationally distributed. In time I guess.

[Applejack]

I do hate BYU, and I probably always will. But I moved away from SLC 12 years ago, and now the only time I read anything about them is the odd occasion that they are in national news. I don't get the channels they usually play on, so I don't see their games. When they are on a channel I have, I usually avoid the game because I get mad when they win. I pretty much just see them once a year now against Utah. As you pointed out, I'm more than happy to rag on them online.

There was a time when I knew more about BYU's teams than their coaches did. It's been a while though.

I am still trying to adjust to the culture of this board. I've never been on a board where trolls are congratulated and patted on the back for their efforts. Give me some time to figure it out. I was not a Clayton Cougar or an East High Leopard, so I am a stranger in a strange land.

I'm just playing with you both. I love to hate BYU just as much as the rest, but Utah fans can be funny - isn't the BYU thread one of the longest ones on this board?

Toolblue is great. I love having BYU fans around (that's why I liked CUF so much). My favorite argument of his is that Utah fans don't know football and are just bandwagoners. That one kills me, coming from a BYU fan. Just really good stuff in there.

[LA Ute]

I'm just playing with you both. I love to hate BYU just as much as the rest, but Utah fans can be funny - isn't the BYU thread one of the longest ones on this board?

Toolblue is great. I love having BYU fans around (that's why I liked CUF so much). My favorite argument of his is that Utah fans don't know football and are just bandwagoners. That one kills me, coming from a BYU fan. Just really good stuff in there.

This may indeed be one of the longest threads. Part of that is due to Senioritis' great title for it. I think this is great. "Hating" a rival makes college athletics fun. This is, of course, a passion we must bridle. (Inside joke noted?) Senioritis' thread gives us a chance to blow off steam.

[Applejack]

This may indeed be one of the longest threads. Part of that is due to Senioritis' great title for it. I think this is great. "Hating" a rival makes college athletics fun. This is, of course, a passion we must bridle. (Inside joke noted?) Senioritis' thread gives us a chance to blow off steam.

Sure. I'm fine with it. But it's hard to argue BYU ignorance while being the main contributor to the BYU thread. Utah fans want to have it both ways: we don't care about BYU and we follow them with a passionate hatred.

[sancho]

Sure. I'm fine with it. But it's hard to argue BYU ignorance while being the main contributor to the BYU thread. Utah fans want to have it both ways: we don't care about BYU and we follow them with a passionate hatred.

Oh, I care. No doubt about that. And I hate. But I don't know the players.

The Utah football and basketball threads are longer than this one. There are also some go nowhere political debates that are long.

[LA Ute]

Sure. I'm fine with it. But it's hard to argue BYU ignorance while being the main contributor to the BYU thread. Utah fans want to have it both ways: we don't care about BYU and we follow them with a passionate hatred.

LOL. That's what this thread is about. We'll (I'll) never be indifferent to them, so why not be honest about that? But I really don't follow them because to do so requires me to take in the nauseating drivel that the Wrubells and Harmons of the world come up with. The only BYU games I ever watch in full are the ones they play against Utah. I guess you could say I passionately ignore them.

[SoCalPat]

LA is correct. I love and loath both fan bases equally. It's about time for me to head back up to the attic but I couldn't resist participating in this thread. I genuinely would've liked to see a couple of Utah games this season before they play BYU. Last week I was en route to Virginia and had to rely on Mormon Red Death to keep me updated with texts. This week there's little chance I will even be able to see a stream of the game online. Despite SoCalPat's bravado (that ride in the limo must've been real special) it's sad that I have to wait until they play the Cougars to see them on TV via a major cable or satellite channel, legitimately and nationally distributed. In time I guess.

Not to turn the thread toward a topic you're unfamiliar with, ie, the facts, but how does FS1 fall outside your definition of a major cable or satellite channel? At least you can find it among other sports channels, and not sandwiched by Pat Robertson's slop and reruns of The Jim Bakker Show.

[SoCalPat]

Sure. I'm fine with it. But it's hard to argue BYU ignorance while being the main contributor to the BYU thread. Utah fans want to have it both ways: we don't care about BYU and we follow them with a passionate hatred.

Ute fans who maintain they don't pay attention to BYU are like 17-year-old boys who insist they don't jerk off. You can believe that if you really want to, but deep down, you know the truth.

[tooblue]

Not to turn the thread toward a topic you're unfamiliar with, ie, the facts, but how does FS1 fall outside your definition of a major cable or satellite channel? At least you can find it among other sports channels, and not sandwiched by Pat Robertson's slop and reruns of The Jim Bakker Show.

I have Direct TV. My package includes ESPN and ESPN2 but not FS1 without a tier package upgrade. And with my basic package I saw every BYU game but only one Utah game last season.

[U-Ute]

I have Direct TV. My package includes ESPN and ESPN2 but not FS1 without a tier package upgrade. And with my basic package I saw every BYU game but only one Utah game last season.

No wonder you have a skewed perspective. You haven't seen much top tier football...

:stirthepot:

[SoCalPat]

I have Direct TV. My package includes ESPN and ESPN2 but not FS1 without a tier package upgrade. And with my basic package I saw every BYU game but only one Utah game last season.

That sounds like your problem. The USU, BYU, USC, UCLA and Colorado games were all on channels that didn't require a tier upgrade, and Oregon State was on ESPNU, which I'm not sure if it requires a tier upgrade or not.

[Mormon Red Death]

I have Direct TV. My package includes ESPN and ESPN2 but not FS1 without a tier package upgrade. And with my basic package I saw every BYU game but only one Utah game last season.

Nice try half of utahs game last year were on fox (the free over the air station) also is you have a package that has espn2 our espn u you have fox sports 1

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

[tooblue]

No wonder you have a skewed perspective. You haven't seen much top tier football...

:stirthepot:

:-)

Of course BYU did go to a bowl last season. And it should also be noted I did listen to a couple Utah games on the radio over Internet last season.

[tooblue]

Nice try half of utahs game last year were on fox (the free over the air station) also is you have a package that has espn2 our espn u you have fox sports 1

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

Oh, I tried to watch Utah last season. But that's the point. Why do I have to upgrade to see the vaunted PAC 12? Shouldn't their teams play on the basic cable or satellite channels? You really think I should pay a premium to watch the Utes?

[LA Ute]

Oh, I tried to watch Utah last season. But that's the point. Why do I have to upgrade to see the vaunted PAC 12? Shouldn't their teams play on the basic cable or satellite channels? You really think I should pay a premium to watch the Utes?

Our opinion on that matter is somewhat biased, so you might want to check with someone else. Just as sort of a reality check.


"It's men in shorts."

-- Rick Majerus

[Applejack]

Guys, guys, this is a snipe hunt. You are arguing about cable subscriptions with a guy who believes that BYU fans are knowledgeable about the game of football; if you've ever been to Lavell's House, you know that the flirting to game-watching ratio is off the charts.

Toolblue is a national treasure, but I think our time is better spent compiling a list of famous Weber State alumni.

[Jarid in Cedar]

I really don't care if TB gets to watch Utah games.

[tooblue]

Guys, guys, this is a snipe hunt. You are arguing about cable subscriptions with a guy who believes that BYU fans are knowledgeable about the game of football; if you've ever been to Lavell's House, you know that the flirting to game-watching ratio is off the charts.

Toolblue is a national treasure, but I think our time is better spent compiling a list of famous Weber State alumni.

Hey now. I made no such claims about the BYU fan base. They have their own unique qualities and cultural proclivities that have little to with what's going on on the field. Regardless, I guess BYU is a second class team playing on first tier networks. Interesting no?

[Applejack]

I really don't care if TB gets to watch Utah games.


:highfive:

[tooblue]

:highfive:

That's just hurtful you two.

[Scorcho]

Dayan Lake ‏@still_flexin6 12h The picture I got in the mail that coach Mendenhall drew for me. Its how I'm gonna look in the BYU…


:rofl:
http://instagram.com/p/d6OESKQkIX/#

772

[Utah]

If tooblue can't find Utah games, that shows his level of intelligence...

He is your basic cougar fan, that thinks BYU still wins the majority of the rivalry games, BYU has a national fanbase, and every top flight QB wants to be at their school.

Just smile at them when they talk, shake their hands and walk away.

[tooblue]

If tooblue can't find Utah games, that shows his level of intelligence...

He is your basic cougar fan, that thinks BYU still wins the majority of the rivalry games, BYU has a national fanbase, and every top flight QB wants to be at their school.

Just smile at them when they talk, shake their hands and walk away.

I'm gonna need a bigger boat.

http://csublogs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/jaws.png









Good luck to the Cougs and the Utes this weekend. The Cougs moreso ... they're gonna need it.

[codered]

Apparently Bronco wants him to be a scrawny punk. I personally would want my football players to have a little muscle on them.





:rofl:
http://instagram.com/p/d6OESKQkIX/#

772

[LA Ute]

:rofl:
http://instagram.com/p/d6OESKQkIX/#

772



Creepy

1.
causing an unpleasant feeling of fear or unease.
"the creepy feelings one often gets in a strange house"


synonyms:
frightening (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&hs=uXR&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&q=define+frightening&sa=X&ei=g2MqUoidOe70igKc0IDAAQ&ved=0CDAQ_SowAA), eerie (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&hs=uXR&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&q=define+eerie&sa=X&ei=g2MqUoidOe70igKc0IDAAQ&ved=0CDEQ_SowAA), disturbing (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&hs=uXR&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&q=define+disturbing&sa=X&ei=g2MqUoidOe70igKc0IDAAQ&ved=0CDIQ_SowAA), sinister (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&hs=uXR&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&q=define+sinister&sa=X&ei=g2MqUoidOe70igKc0IDAAQ&ved=0CDMQ_SowAA), weird (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&hs=uXR&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&q=define+weird&sa=X&ei=g2MqUoidOe70igKc0IDAAQ&ved=0CDQQ_SowAA), hair-raising (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&hs=uXR&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&q=define+hair-raising&sa=X&ei=g2MqUoidOe70igKc0IDAAQ&ved=0CDUQ_SowAA), menacing (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&hs=uXR&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&q=define+menacing&sa=X&ei=g2MqUoidOe70igKc0IDAAQ&ved=0CDYQ_SowAA), threatening (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&hs=uXR&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&q=define+threatening&sa=X&ei=g2MqUoidOe70igKc0IDAAQ&ved=0CDcQ_SowAA), eldritch (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&hs=uXR&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&q=define+eldritch&sa=X&ei=g2MqUoidOe70igKc0IDAAQ&ved=0CDgQ_SowAA); Moreinformalspooky (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&hs=uXR&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&q=define+spooky&sa=X&ei=g2MqUoidOe70igKc0IDAAQ&ved=0CDoQ_SowAA), scary (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&hs=uXR&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&q=define+scary&sa=X&ei=g2MqUoidOe70igKc0IDAAQ&ved=0CDsQ_SowAA), freaky (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&hs=uXR&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&q=define+freaky&sa=X&ei=g2MqUoidOe70igKc0IDAAQ&ved=0CDwQ_SowAA)
"the old apple trees look creepy"






"All your commitments are belong to us." -- Bronco

[USS Utah]

I'm just playing with you both. I love to hate BYU just as much as the rest, but Utah fans can be funny - isn't the BYU thread one of the longest ones on this board?

Toolblue is great. I love having BYU fans around (that's why I liked CUF so much). My favorite argument of his is that Utah fans don't know football and are just bandwagoners. That one kills me, coming from a BYU fan. Just really good stuff in there.

To be fair, several posters in this thread went off on a tangent about Stanford.

[USS Utah]

Guys, guys, this is a snipe hunt. You are arguing about cable subscriptions with a guy who believes that BYU fans are knowledgeable about the game of football; if you've ever been to Lavell's House, you know that the flirting to game-watching ratio is off the charts.

Toolblue is a national treasure, but I think our time is better spent compiling a list of famous Weber State alumni.

Great trolling seems to involve recycling old smack. In this case it dates back to 2011.

[LA Ute]

Great trolling seems to involve recycling old smack. In this case it dates back to 2011.

Eccentric uncles who live in the attic often forget what they've talked about in prior visits.


"It's men in shorts."

-- Rick Majerus

[sancho]

To be fair, several posters in this thread went off on a tangent about Stanford.

Perfect, I hate Stanford too.

[tooblue]

Great trolling seems to involve recycling old smack. In this case it dates back to 2011.

Referencing topics that got some play circa 2011 seems a whole lot better than still living in 2009 ;)

[Utah]

Perfect, I hate Stanford too.

I am soooooo over Stanford. I don't get why recruits make such a big deal over Stanford's academics. Graduating with a degree in sociology form Stanford is still graduating with a crappy degree. A little reality here, please.

[LA Ute]

Referencing topics that got some play circa 2011 seems a whole lot better than still living in 2009 ;)

You're getting very choose to....

773

[USS Utah]

Referencing topics that got some play circa 2011 seems a whole lot better than still living in 2009 ;)

An argument that would have some validity if there were in inordinate amount of Sugar Bowl references here daily. As there have not been, it has no validity.

[USS Utah]

I am soooooo over Stanford. I don't get why recruits make such a big deal over Stanford's academics. Graduating with a degree in sociology form Stanford is still graduating with a crappy degree. A little reality here, please.

I love Stanford. I always enjoyed spending time on campus when I was assigned to Palo Alto on my mission. I could lose track of time in the Rodin sculpture garden.

[sancho]

I love Stanford. I always enjoyed spending time on campus when I was assigned to Palo Alto on my mission. I could lose track of time in the Rodin sculpture garden.

Since they brainwashed you as a missionary, you are allowed to like them. But the fact that there is a Rodin sculpture garden is enough reason to dislike them.

[USS Utah]

Since they brainwashed you as a missionary, you are allowed to like them. But the fact that there is a Rodin sculpture garden is enough reason to dislike them.

You have something against Rodin?

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4089/4964112973_4997ac1683.jpg

[sancho]

You have something against Rodin?

If there's anything I hate as much as BYU and Stanford, it's Rodin.

[tooblue]

An argument that would have some validity if there were in inordinate amount of Sugar Bowl references here daily. As there have not been, it has no validity.

Firstly, if I remember correctly the rivalry died for you in 2009. Maybe I am mistaken? Secondly, having been there with regards to my own BYU fandom, in retrospect, I recognize how hard it is to step back and recognize the moment when the program and team you cheer for week in and week out may have plateaued or peaked during a specific era. As a reasonably objective observer who has watched the Utes his entire life and with a part of him that still cheers for the Utes every other week that they don't play BYU, it's reasonable for me to assert that many here on this board, my siblings included, are still living in 2009. Not only is my argument valid but it is astute.

As an aside, I love Rodin.

[Utah]

Firstly, if I remember correctly the rivalry died for you in 2009. Maybe I am mistaken? Secondly, having been there with regards to my own BYU fandom, in retrospect, I recognize how hard it is to step back and recognize the moment when the program and team you cheer for week in and week out may have plateaued or peaked during a specific era. As a reasonably objective observer who has watched the Utes his entire life and with a part of him that still cheers for the Utes every other week that they don't play BYU, it's reasonable for me to assert that many here on this board, my siblings included, are still living in 2009. Not only is my argument valid but it is astute.

As an aside, I love Rodin.

Still living in 2009? Um. Please show me where posters on this board are proclaiming BCS Bowls and natties (as your people would say). Please do.

Unlike your fanbase. Wrubell was still saying BYU could go to a BCS bowl after last week's loss. That right there, that the voice of your team is so stupid as to proclaim BYU was on the same level as N Ill, that they would qualify for a BCS bowl with one loss, shows how stupid your fanbase/program is.

[USS Utah]

If there's anything I hate as much as BYU and Stanford, it's Rodin.

I have no response to that.

[USS Utah]

Firstly, if I remember correctly the rivalry died for you in 2009. Maybe I am mistaken? Secondly, having been there with regards to my own BYU fandom, in retrospect, I recognize how hard it is to step back and recognize the moment when the program and team you cheer for week in and week out may have plateaued or peaked during a specific era. As a reasonably objective observer who has watched the Utes his entire life and with a part of him that still cheers for the Utes every other week that they don't play BYU, it's reasonable for me to assert that many here on this board, my siblings included, are still living in 2009. Not only is my argument valid but it is astute.

As an aside, I love Rodin.

Reasonably objective? Ha! That's freaking hilarious.

As for 2009, I merely stated that this was when the rivalry stopped being fun. Too many people were taking something so inherently meaningless in the grand scheme of things far too seriously. So I moved on. This can hardly be said to be living in 2009. So, nice try, but, it was neither valid nor astute.

[Snowman]

I'm not even gonna lie.

BYU looked damn good tonight.

[chrisrenrut]

Yep, and now they have two weeks to prepare for us while we have a test next week with Oregon State.

Ill be honest, Out of the two, I want the win against Oregon St. more.

[Jarid in Cedar]

Yep, and now they have two weeks to prepare for us while we have a test next week with Oregon State.

Ill be honest, Out of the two, I want the win against Oregon St. more.

I think the bye may hurt them. If I was them, i would want to try to figure out how to keep this momentum going

[OrangeUte]

I think the bye may hurt them. If I was them, i would want to try to figure out how to keep this momentum going

My thinking as well. Get some rust on. Now we have some film to study. They have little passing game. The running they did on Texas tonight was impressive but I cannot see it being a routine game. Tonight was a special night for byu. Not a usual night.

Lets take care or OSU and then get going on the cougs. While we do, they can practice against each other.

Their defense is impressive. Our OLine better be ready to be pressured and tested.

[LA Ute]

My thinking as well. Get some rust on. Now we have some film to study. They have little passing game. The running they did on Texas tonight was impressive but I cannot see it being a routine game. Tonight was a special night for byu. Not a usual night.

Lets take care or OSU and then get going on the cougs. While we do, they can practice against each other.

Their defense is impressive. Our OLine better be ready to be pressured and tested.

We actually need the OSU game in order to get better.

"It's men in shorts."

-- Rick Majerus

[wally]

I'm not even gonna lie.

BYU looked damn good tonight.

Texas was thrown off their game by the rain delay. ;)

[SoCalPat]

Apparently, our own Mighty Alaskan Ute was the huge call of the day on the Jim Rome Show. Topic: Ripping Bronco Mendenhall to shreds.

[LA Ute]

Apparently, our own Mighty Alaskan Ute was the huge call of the day on the Jim Rome Show. Topic: Ripping Bronco Mendenhall to shreds.

Is there a podcast? Rome is not available in Los Angeles, oddly enough.


"It's men in shorts."

-- Rick Majerus

[Devildog]

Apparently, our own Mighty Alaskan Ute was the huge call of the day on the Jim Rome Show. Topic: Ripping Bronco Mendenhall to shreds.

I heard that live today. It was funny. Rome played it again to close the show.

[chrisrenrut]

Is there a podcast? Rome is not available in Los Angeles, oddly enough.

Podcast can be found here: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=jim%20rome%20radio&source=web&cd=16&ved=0CDYQFjAFOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fpodcastrss.play.it%2Fthe-jim-rome-show_mp3_128.xml&ei=TgYwUorAE7OQyQHdjYG4DQ&usg=AFQjCNEpa5aZatnuKmKisgXAgiG_9alWCw&sig2=JhqsKvkUOrLXNZ8XCMUH1w&bvm=bv.51773540,d.aWc

I'm guessing it is the call in hour three at 27:20 from Jake. Best take was that Tim Tebow cries about Taysom Hills completion percentage.

[Tecate_Guapo Ute]

Podcast can be found here: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=jim%20rome%20radio&source=web&cd=16&ved=0CDYQFjAFOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fpodcastrss.play.it%2Fthe-jim-rome-show_mp3_128.xml&ei=TgYwUorAE7OQyQHdjYG4DQ&usg=AFQjCNEpa5aZatnuKmKisgXAgiG_9alWCw&sig2=JhqsKvkUOrLXNZ8XCMUH1w&bvm=bv.51773540,d.aWc

I'm guessing it is the call in hour three at 27:20 from Jake. Best take was that Tim Tebow cries about Taysom Hills completion percentage.

Thanks for link! Awesome interview. 9:30 a brief segment and last 10 or 15 mins are all good stuff! Zoob arguments were predictable Heisman and national championship. We got some good comments in through. Was surprised that nobody mentioned #1 drafts in football and basketball. More players in NFL, or that thanks to loss to Virginia TDS will NEVER get a BCS appearance.

[yohio]

I just checked in and saw that the two most active threads are about BYU and Mitt Romney. This place really is just becoming LAU's blog.

[LA Ute]

I just checked in and saw that the two most active threads are about BYU and Mitt Romney. This place really is just becoming LAU's blog.

796

[sancho]

I just checked in and saw that the two most active threads are about BYU and Mitt Romney. This place really is just becoming LAU's blog.

I starting to feel a little nervous about posting. I'm wondering just how many BYU fans are out there secretly counting and classifying posts.

[LA Ute]

I starting to feel a little nervous about posting. I'm wondering just how many BYU fans are out there secretly counting and classifying posts.

It's ok. They are just intensely interested in what we think of them. It's flattering, in a creepy sort of way.


"It's men in shorts."

-- Rick Majerus

[U-Ute]

Apparently, our own Mighty Alaskan Ute was the huge call of the day on the Jim Rome Show. Topic: Ripping Bronco Mendenhall to shreds.

Lol... well played. Epic run. You even got a nickname from Rome.

[LA Ute]

Podcast can be found here: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=jim%20rome%20radio&source=web&cd=16&ved=0CDYQFjAFOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fpodcastrss.play.it%2Fthe-jim-rome-show_mp3_128.xml&ei=TgYwUorAE7OQyQHdjYG4DQ&usg=AFQjCNEpa5aZatnuKmKisgXAgiG_9alWCw&sig2=JhqsKvkUOrLXNZ8XCMUH1w&bvm=bv.51773540,d.aWc

I'm guessing it is the call in hour three at 27:20 from Jake. Best take was that Tim Tebow cries about Taysom Hills completion percentage.

I loved how the TDS fans who responded just wanted to talk about Heisman Trophy and National Championship.

[tooblue]

I loved how the TDS fans who responded just wanted to talk about Heisman Trophy and National Championship.

Thanks for the op-ed comrade Vladimir. But all things considered, I'd rather be dead than red. Go Cougars!

[LA Ute]

Thanks for the op-ed comrade Vladimir. But all things considered, I'd rather be dead than red. Go Cougars!

Trolling on Sunday morning is a violation of something. Not sure what, you miserable vomitous mass.

[tooblue]

Trolling on Sunday morning is a violation of something. Not sure what, you miserable vomitous mass.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzFMmb86FvY

Go Cougs!

[Utah]

After not selling out the Texas game, BYU officials are getting worried about this game as well. Currently, you can buy tickets for $90 to the BYU/Utah game and get the Boise St game for free!

[tooblue]

Attendance smack! lol

[LA Ute]

Attendance smack! lol

We not only can take it, we can dish it out.