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Thread: The Trojans, the Ducks, the Bruins, and all those guys: The PAC-12 rivals thread

  1. #1351
    Announced today that Bryce Love tore his ACL in their bowl game. I still can’t believe Moss is coming back.


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  2. #1352
    That sucks--no good deed goes unpunished.

  3. #1353
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Interesting data from Jon Wilner:

    *****

    The bowl ratings breakdown

    Ratings for bowl games typically don't occupy a place of prominence on the Hotline's radar, but this is not a typical winter. Over the coming months, conferences will finalize the bowl arrangements for the cycle of games beginning with the 2020 season.

    The partnerships -- both existing and potential -- are based on a variety of factors, and we're not suggesting a single ratings point for any given game will impact the Pac-12's future lineup.

    That said, the viewership numbers occupy a place on the broader canvass that influences decisions made by the bowls and their communities, the conferences and the TV networks.

    With that in mind, and with the data culled from sportsmediawatch (an invaluable site), the Hotline compiled the ratings for the Pac-12 bowl games over the past three years.

    Notes:
    • Ratings not available for all games.
    • I have included, at bottom, the conference's one-off matchups games, such as Utah in the Heart of Dallas Bowl in 2017 or the New Year’s Six matchups, in addition to all the contracted games.)

    • Keep in mind that ratings can be impacted by competition.

    Rose Bowl

    2016: 8.6 rating/15.7 million (USC vs. Penn State)

    2017: 13.7 rating/26.9 million (Georgia vs. Oklahoma/CFP)

    2018: 8.9 rating/16.8 million (Washington vs. Ohio State)

    Alamo Bowl

    2016: 2.6 rating/4.6 million (Colorado vs. Oklahoma State)

    2017: 2.5 rating/4.4 million (Stanford vs. TCU)

    2018: 3.2 rating/5.5 million (Washington State vs. Iowa State)

    Holiday Bowl

    2016: 2.4 rating/4.0 million (Washington State vs. Minnesota)
    2017: not available/1.6 million (Washington State vs. Michigan State)
    2018: 0.9 rating/1.8 million (Utah vs. Northwestern)

    Redbox Bowl

    2016: 1.6 rating/2.6 million (Utah vs. Indiana)
    2017: 1.7 rating/2.8 million (Arizona vs. Purdue)
    2018: 2.3 rating/3.8 million (Oregon vs. Michigan State)

    Sun Bowl

    2016: 1.9 rating/2.9 million (Stanford vs. North Carolina)
    2017: 1.5 rating/2.2 million (Arizona State vs. N.C. State)
    2018: 1.8 rating/2.6 million (Stanford vs. Pittsburgh)

    Las Vegas Bowl

    2016: no Pac-12 participant
    2017: 2.3 rating/3.8 million (Oregon vs. Boise State)
    2018: 2.25 rating/3.3 million (Arizona State vs. Fresno State)

    Cheez-It Bowl

    2016: no Pac-12 participant
    2017: not available/3.3 million (UCLA vs. Kansas State)
    2018: 1.6 rating/2.7 million (Cal vs. TCU)

    Peach Bowl/CFP

    2016: 10.7 rating/19.3 million (Washington vs. Alabama)

    Cotton Bowl/NY6
    2017: 5.3 rating/9.5 million (USC vs. Ohio State)

    Fiesta Bowl/NY6

    2017: 5.7 rating/10.2 million (Washington vs. Penn State)

    Heart of Dallas
    2017: not available/2.2 million (Utah vs. West Virginia)

    We'll have more on the Pac-12's postseason lineup as the discussions deepen and contracts are finalized over the winter and spring. — Jon Wilner

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  4. #1354
    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Schr-Ute View Post
    Announced today that Bryce Love tore his ACL in their bowl game. I still can’t believe Moss is coming back.


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    Didn't he miss their bowl game? I think the injury happened in their last regular-season game

  5. #1355
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    From Jon Wilner’s Hotline:

    *****

    Crow speaks, and we should listen
    (But context is required)


    Arizona State’s Michael Crow, one of the most influential presidents in the Pac-12 — and commissioner Larry Scott’s staunchest supporter within the CEO group — addressed a slew of hot-button issues in an interview with the Arizona Republic that was published Monday.

    Not surprisingly, Crow echoed many of the talking points Scott has hit in recent months and was optimistic about the Pac-12’s future: “By my standard, we’re on track, we’re doing well, we’re making progress and we’re positioning ourselves for greatness going forward."

    As you read Crow’s comments -- and everyone in the Hotline community should, whether you agree with Crow or not -- keep a few things in mind:
    1) Crow has a personal stake in the success of Scott’s leadership and the conference's strategies, since he was a key member of the group that hired Scott and signed off on Scott's compensation and the Pac-12 Networks' business model.

    To admit missteps -- to acknowledge the potential for anything other than "greatness" -- would be to call his own judgment into question.

    2) When addressing the revenue gap between the Pac-12 and other Power Five conferences, Crow noted:

    “Conference income is a tiny part of everybody’s income. It’s just a piece of everybody’s income.”

    That’s easy for him to say.

    Arizona State’s athletic department is heavily subsidized by central campus — to a greater extent than its conference peers — and therefore isn't nearly as reliant upon Pac-12 distributions as the other schools.

    Per the financial database compiled by USA Today, a whopping 22 percent of the Sun Devils’ athletic revenue in 2016-17 came from student fees and university support ($22 million in support and fees on $101 million in revenue).

    For Utah, that figure was 14.5 percent.
    For Colorado, it was 13 percent.
    For Arizona, it was 11 percent.
    For Oregon State, it was 9 percent.
    For Washington State, it was 8 percent.
    For Cal, it was 4.3 percent.
    (Oregon, UCLA and Washington were miniscule.)

    I cannot emphasize this point enough: Because of its massive enrollment (70,000+), sprawling system of online classes and Crow's underwriting model, the Sun Devils' economic challenges don't square with the realities faced by most of their public school peers.
    3) A few of Crow’s comments require context. For instance:

    • “What somebody will be writing about three years from now or four years will be, 'How did the Pac-12 get ahead of us?’”

    It’s actually six years until the Pac-12’s new media rights deal kicks in (2024-25), unless the conference renegotiates early, and six years is an eternity on the front lines.

    And before the next agreement takes hold, the Big Ten, already a full lap ahead of the Pac-12 on the revenue front, will have a mammoth new deal of its own; and the SEC, already a half-lap ahead, will have a colossal mega-jackpot of a new agreement with CBS. (More on that in the Media Landscape section below.)

    I’d argue that Crow is actually doing Scott and the conference a disservice by ratcheting up expectations.

    • On the topic of content control, Crow notes that the Pac-12 has retained 100 percent ownership of its network while other conferences have partners (the Big Ten with Fox; the SEC and ACC with ESPN):

    “Others have sold their networks to commercial entities and thereby have lost control of their networks and lost control of their scheduling and other things, and we have not.”

    Well, yes and no. The Pac-12 Networks set the schedule for the content on the national and regional networks. But when it comes to the most valuable content, the content that pays the bills for the Olympics sports — the premium football and men’s basketball games — the Pac-12 has zero control over the scheduling.

    In fact, it sold that control to Fox and ESPN for cold, hard cash, with Crow's approval.

    Bottom line: It’s good when the presidents and chancellors speak, whether their opinions are popular or not. But perspective is important.

    — Jon Wilner

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  6. #1356
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    The latest from Wilner.

    Thunderous news, from afar

    The most significant offseason development in Pac-12 football, one could argue, does not actually involve a Pac-12 player, coach or team.

    It’s not Justin Herbert returning to Oregon or Mel Tucker taking over in Boulder. It's not the players leaving early for the draft or the recruits arriving early for spring practice.

    Nope, the development that could have the greatest long-haul impact unfolded earlier this week, 2,500 miles away: Tosh Lupoi is leaving the Alabama coaching staff and heading to the NFL.

    The conference's top adversary on the recruiting trails — on the west coast recruiting trails — will no longer be wreaking havoc on the Pac-12 talent pipeline.

    Lupoi, a former assistant at Cal and Washington, has been convincing top prospects to leave the west coast and move to Tuscaloosa for several years, thereby reducing the quantity of elite talent in the conference.

    Consider his handiwork:

    Signed

    Class of 2016

    Jonah Williams: 5-star OT from Folsom

    Class of 2017

    Najee Harris: 5-star RB from Antioch
    Tua Tagovailoa: 5-star QB from Honolulu

    Class of 2018

    Cameron Lua: 4-star DE from Salt Lake City

    Tommy Brown: 4-star OT from Santa Ana

    Ale Kaho: 4-star ILB from Reno
    Recruiting

    Class of 2019

    Henry To’oto’o: 4-star OLB from Concord

    Class of 2020

    Kendall Milton: 5-star TB from Clovis

    Class of 2021

    J.T. Tuimoloau: 5-star DT from Sammamish

    According to 247sports, Lupoi was the No. 1 ranked recruiter in the country for the 2019 signing cycle, and he served as the Crimson Tide's lead man on eight of the nine players listed above (the exception: Jonah Williams, with whom Lupoi played a secondary role to Mario Cristobal)

    Lupoi wasn't exactly free of controversy during his employment in the Pac-12, but the end result is indisputable: He has been one of the most successful recruiters in the sport this decade.
    Make no mistake: Alabama will continue to recruit the west coast and should be respected, if not feared from Seattle to Honolulu to Phoenix and all points in between.

    (The Tide, as the Hotline explained recently, smells Pac-12 blood.)

    But Lupoi was a recruiting dynamo with deep west coast ties who was employed by a dynasty outside the footprint.

    The Pac-12 football product, in dire need of good news -- and desperate to keep its top talents at home -- got a load of it with Lupoi's departure.

    -- Jon Wilner.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  7. #1357
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Thunderous news, from afar
    Ding, dong, the witch is dead! May he have a long NFL career!

  8. #1358
    I've recently read a number of posts on the topic of USC becoming an Independent in football ala ND. Any real likelihood of this?

  9. #1359
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    I've recently read a number of posts on the topic of USC becoming an Independent in football ala ND. Any real likelihood of this?
    I would hope that the Pac-12 would not let them remain in the conference for all other sports besides football. If not, they would have to get a scheduling agreement with the big 10 or the Big 12 has Notre Dame has with the ACC. Otherwise they face the same problem as BYU, which is filling out a schedule every year. The good news might be that they can replace us is BYU's annual rival and we could go our own way.

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