2013-14 Tank Watch: How to Fail Gracefully in the NBA

[UBlender]

I thought I'd start a thread primarily to track the Jazz and other NBA teams as they compete for the worst record and top draft pick in this year's (supposedly) loaded NBA draft. Riggin4Wiggins, NoHandle4Randle, Parkin4Jabari, etc.

(If people want to use this thread as the official 2013-14 Jazz or NBA thread, that is fine with me, but I could see those working better in a separate thread as I expect to use this to focus less on the current state of the Jazz and more on how the Jazz can become great by first being terrible).

So far it's a nice 0-3 start for the Jazz, but it has gone about as well as one could hope (if you are into tanking). The Jazz have competed well and the young core has shown some promise, while being unable to close out wins. The come-from-ahead loss to Houston was particularly clutch by this young group.

The very early going has also been successful in the failure of some key tankers to properly fail. Philly, Phoenix and Orlando are considered likely contenders for the top pick but all have won early and shown positive signs (perhaps too many wins will be on the way for these teams).

Despite Danny Ainge (Zoob) swearing Boston wouldn't tank, it appears that the Celtics are the way-too-early frontrunners for that top pick along with the Jazz. The two play tomorrow night in Boston, which will be a key early season game for each team to try and lose. If the Jazz make it through Boston without a win then 0-8 seems like a good possibility, 10% of the way to a perfect season!

Feel the excitement and stay tuned!

[DrumNFeather]

The Wizards made a move to try and make the playoffs and they still suck. Unintentional tanking is always the way to go.

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[Applejack]

Boston will be tough to catch. Trotting a lineup that features Jeff Green as your centerpiece is impressive.

I think the Suns will be decent - Horny is a good coach (sure glad that we nabbed Corbin instead) and they run and gun with a young team. They'll keep winning, I think. Philly will come back to earth as soon as MCW starts shooting under 50%. Good thing the Jazz bench is MWC quality.

[concerned]

I don't see why tanking gracefully is a consummation devoutly to be wished. Graceful or not, I just hope it is damn effective.

[UBlender]

The Wizards made a move to try and make the playoffs and they still suck. Unintentional tanking is always the way to go.

Sent from my LG-E970 using Tapatalk 2

There will certainly be some teams who intended to play for wins this season but they will end up being much worse than expected and at some point will go for the tank. Washington is looking like a strong candidate for that scenario, as are Milwaukee and Denver as they struggle in the early going.

[UBlender]

Boston will be tough to catch. Trotting a lineup that features Jeff Green as your centerpiece is impressive.

I think the Suns will be decent - Horny is a good coach (sure glad that we nabbed Corbin instead) and they run and gun with a young team. They'll keep winning, I think. Philly will come back to earth as soon as MCW starts shooting under 50%. Good thing the Jazz bench is MWC quality.

Critical early season tank-off between Boston and the Jazz tonight. It is a marathon and not a sprint so the one game may not make a huge difference (and I don't think there are any tiebreakers....they do the lottery and then settle any remaining ties with a coin flip--I think) but it will be very telling just how committed these two teams are to losing this game.

Statement game for the tanking crowd tonight.

[concerned]

Critical early season tank-off between Boston and the Jazz tonight. It is a marathon and not a sprint so the one game may not make a huge difference (and I don't think there are any tiebreakers....they do the lottery and then settle any remaining ties with a coin flip--I think) but it will be very telling just how committed these two teams are to losing this game.

Statement game for the tanking crowd tonight.

Every game counts the same. the games you tank in early November are just as important as the games you tank in late March. You can never get them back. Hopefully Hayward proves Dennis Lindsey right, and doesnt screw it up by trying to impress the Celtics and his once and future coach.

[NinerUte]

First to 50 wins tonight?

[Applejack]

Some other darkhouse candidates:

Cleveland
Sacramento
KNICKS

[UBlender]

Every game counts the same. the games you tank in early November are just as important as the games you tank in late March. You can never get them back. Hopefully Hayward proves Dennis Lindsey right, and doesnt screw it up by trying to impress the Celtics and his once and future coach.

That is why it is a statement game. It only counts as one and both teams will stumble into wins during the year, but it will be fascinating to see just how bad each team wants to go to tank this early in the season. Will Boston start Brandon Bass at point guard? Will Corbin insert himself into the lineup if Hayward or Burks get hot? I'm not ruling it out.

Boston swore up and down that they wouldn't tank. It looks like that was a lie, but tonight they can really confirm where their motives lie.

[concerned]

That is why it is a statement game. It only counts as one and both teams will stumble into wins during the year, but it will be fascinating to see just how bad each team wants to go to tank this early in the season. Will Boston start Brandon Bass at point guard? Will Corbin insert himself into the lineup if Hayward or Burks get hot? I'm not ruling it out.

Boston swore up and down that they wouldn't tank. It looks like that was a lie, but tonight they can really confirm where their motives lie.

unfortunately for us, only one of these teams has a coach motivated to win to save his job.

[UBlender]

Some other darkhouse candidates:

Cleveland
Sacramento
KNICKS

I agree on Cleveland and thought about mentioning them before. I'm not sure Sacramento is a darkhorse--I think they are in the club with the core group of tankers, at least on the fringe. (They should be tanking because they aren't making the playoffs and have no reason to try to win and having a high lottery pick might help generate excitement for them to get an arena deal).

I think the Knicks are too proud to tank and feel like they can be a fringe contender (they can't but they are deluded). However, with Chandler out, if Carmelo were to get hurt then that would change everything. With a healthy Carmelo I can't see them getting bad enough to be in the conversation.

[concerned]

I agree on Cleveland and thought about mentioning them before. I'm not sure Sacramento is a darkhorse--I think they are in the club with the core group of tankers, at least on the fringe. (They should be tanking because they aren't making the playoffs and have no reason to try to win and having a high lottery pick might help generate excitement for them to get an arena deal).

I think the Knicks are too proud to tank and feel like they can be a fringe contender (they can't but they are deluded). However, with Chandler out, if Carmelo were to get hurt then that would change everything. With a healthy Carmelo I can't see them getting bad enough to be in the conversation.

If the Kings start playing Jimmer, we will know the answer.

[concerned]

They might give him playing time to "showcase" him for a trade.

a classic example of killing two birds with one stone.

[concerned]

That is why it is a statement game. It only counts as one and both teams will stumble into wins during the year, but it will be fascinating to see just how bad each team wants to go to tank this early in the season. Will Boston start Brandon Bass at point guard? Will Corbin insert himself into the lineup if Hayward or Burks get hot? I'm not ruling it out.

Boston swore up and down that they wouldn't tank. It looks like that was a lie, but tonight they can really confirm where their motives lie.

We lost our statement game convincingly. Botson has gone on to beat Miami on the road, and Phoenix is 5-2. Looking better and better. We control our destiny.

[UBlender]

For a minute there, I thought the Jazz might get their first win over the disappointing Nuggets, who may be a darkhorse tanking candidate themselves.

0-8, about 10% of the way to a winless season. Good job, Utah....now maybe go out and get a win at some point just to give everyone a taste of success and a reminder of what we hope to be true: that this team has some pieces of a good team.

[concerned]

Good to see that the Jazz are taking this tanking seriously:

• Jody Genessy ‏@DJJazzyJody4h
  Four from Jazz front office will be at tonight's Championship Classic, featuring Wiggins, Randle, Parker, five other projected lottery picks
  

We are not messing around.

[concerned]

great tank night last night. The Wizards, Pistons and Kings all won. We are now down two in the win column to the Kings. We need the Bucks to catch fire, however.

[Applejack]

great tank night last night. The Wizards, Pistons and Kings all won. We are now down two in the win column to the Kings. We need the Bucks to catch fire, however.

The Bucks worry me. They were bad to begin with, and now they are down LARRYSANDERS! and Ilyasova. They can pull a "Jazz" and claim they are running the young guys (Jon Henson, Udoh) to see what they have (not much). Plus, they have chuckers like Mayo and Gary Neal that can carry a tanking team for games at a time. I think the Jazz are in it to win it, but we need to watch our backs.

[UBlender]

The Bucks worry me. They were bad to begin with, and now they are down LARRYSANDERS! and Ilyasova. They can pull a "Jazz" and claim they are running the young guys (Jon Henson, Udoh) to see what they have (not much). Plus, they have chuckers like Mayo and Gary Neal that can carry a tanking team for games at a time. I think the Jazz are in it to win it, but we need to watch our backs.

The thing about the Bucks is that their owner has been adamant that they will not tank. Now, nobody really openly admits to tanking but there are some organizations, like the Jazz, who don't directly deny it (the Jazz talk about things like investing in the future and having a year of discovery, which is about as close to a confession as you'll get).

Of course, it's possible that the Bucks aren't tanking but just suck that bad. But I'm not yet convinced they are going to be in the thick of the race to the bottom for the full season.

[Senioritis]

Word that Trey Burke will play tonight in New Orleans. While I don't think Trey Burke is the next, uh, Kirk Heinrich, he will probably be an upgrade over John Lucas III and Alec Burks. The question is, how much?

Hopefully he'll make the Jazz remarkably competitive in oodles of close games that they lose in the final two minutes because they don't have a real first option nor any clue what to do with one even if they did.

I love the NBA.

[Scratch]

Word that Trey Burke will play tonight in New Orleans. While I don't think Trey Burke is the next, uh, Kirk Heinrich, he will probably be an upgrade over John Lucas III and Alec Burks. The question is, how much?

Hopefully he'll make the Jazz remarkably competitive in oodles of close games that they lose in the final two minutes because they don't have a real first option nor any clue what to do with one even if they did.

I love the NBA.

I can only hope that the Jazz are rushing him back in a manner that will likely lead to some sort of season-threatening bot non-career-impacting injury. I can't come up with any other explanation.

[Applejack]

Word that Trey Burke will play tonight in New Orleans. While I don't think Trey Burke is the next, uh, Kirk Heinrich, he will probably be an upgrade over John Lucas III and Alec Burks. The question is, how much?

Hopefully he'll make the Jazz remarkably competitive in oodles of close games that they lose in the final two minutes because they don't have a real first option nor any clue what to do with one even if they did.

I love the NBA.

I'm not convinced that the John Lucas III experiment has run its course. He has shown glimpses, right? Let's not take the ball out of his hands too soon.

[concerned]

[QUOTE=Scratch;26182]I can only hope that the Jazz are rushing him back in a manner that will likely lead to some sort of season-threatening bot non-career-impacting injury. I can't come up with any other explanation.[/


He needs to break another finger. I know just the guy. We also need to make sure the Jazz keep Ty around.

[Senioritis]

I'm not convinced that the John Lucas III experiment has run its course. He has shown glimpses, right? Let's not take the ball out of his hands too soon.

I can't believe they gave Tinsley the quick hook. Unreal. The organization needs to learn a little patience.

And I don't think Mike Harris gets enough looks from 3. Got to find a way to get him more shots.

[wally]

I have not been paying attention to the Jazz very much yet. I am hearing that they are in full tanking mode. I find it sort of funny to hear the guys on the Jazz station (1280 right?). just giddy about losing so many games so far. I am guessing by the time the season is over the average listener will have heard the names Wiggins and Parker 10's of thousands of times or more.

[Applejack]

I can't believe they gave Tinsley the quick hook. Unreal. The organization needs to learn a little patience.

And I don't think Mike Harris gets enough looks from 3. Got to find a way to get him more shots.

Agreed. Tinsley strikes me as a Kurt Warner type - late bloomer. I thought this was his breakout year. I guess we'll never know.

[concerned]

the Nets GM is brilliant. Who would have thought he acquired KG, Pierce, and AK47 as a tanking strategy. He fooled everyone. Brilliant. Jason Kidd too.

[UBlender]

Suddenly, the Jazz prospects for a top three pick seem very tenuous. Is it randomness or are the Jazz just too competent with Trey Burke in the lineup? The Jazz still have the most losses but are behind the Bucks and Knicks in the fewest wins competition and are tied with Sacto in wins. Brooklyn and Cleveland lurk right there as well. Toronto has two more wins than the Jazz but lead their division (by percentage points over Boston--the NBA might have a really hilarious and awkward situation on its hands with the winner of that division being handed a #4 seed with a sub .500 record). Philly and Orlando are both looking more like the teams they were expected, though both appear to have some level of competency and are competing to win right now. A lot of company for the Jazz, who seemed poised to boat race the tankers a couple weeks ago.

I still maintain that the Knicks and Nets are too veteran-heavy and proud to really tank. If both teams get healthy they will put together some wins. I think there's too much talent on each roster to stay this bad unless the injuries continue to pile up.

Milwaukee is a huge problem for the Jazz. That is a bad roster and it is now evident that their front office was full of crap when they declared that they would not tank--that team is not trying to win. Cleveland and Sacramento are also big contenders. Cleveland was supposed to contend for the playoffs, but now that they are off to a bad start they will be wise to go all out for the high pick. Sacramento seems like they should be better than this on paper, but they are Sacramento after all.

The Jazz need to right the ship and get back to losing. This is their year to make a move. If they stumble into a pick in the 8-12 range then they may as well get comfortable in that spot because that is where they will remain for years. Once the current core of young players is all vetted up they may be good enough to make the playoffs as a 7 or 8 seed but won't go anywhere and won't have the picks or resources to really improve from there. They need to add a franchise changing player this year.

[concerned]

Suddenly, the Jazz prospects for a top three pick seem very tenuous. Is it randomness or are the Jazz just too competent with Trey Burke in the lineup? The Jazz still have the most losses but are behind the Bucks and Knicks in the fewest wins competition and are tied with Sacto in wins. Brooklyn and Cleveland lurk right there as well. Toronto has two more wins than the Jazz but lead their division (by percentage points over Boston--the NBA might have a really hilarious and awkward situation on its hands with the winner of that division being handed a #4 seed with a sub .500 record). Philly and Orlando are both looking more like the teams they were expected, though both appear to have some level of competency and are competing to win right now. A lot of company for the Jazz, who seemed poised to boat race the tankers a couple weeks ago.


I still maintain that the Knicks and Nets are too veteran-heavy and proud to really tank. If both teams get healthy they will put together some wins. I think there's too much talent on each roster to stay this bad unless the injuries continue to pile up.

Milwaukee is a huge problem for the Jazz. That is a bad roster and it is now evident that their front office was full of crap when they declared that they would not tank--that team is not trying to win. Cleveland and Sacramento are also big contenders. Cleveland was supposed to contend for the playoffs, but now that they are off to a bad start they will be wise to go all out for the high pick. Sacramento seems like they should be better than this on paper, but they are Sacramento after all.

The Jazz need to right the ship and get back to losing. This is their year to make a move. If they stumble into a pick in the 8-12 range then they may as well get comfortable in that spot because that is where they will remain for years. Once the current core of young players is all vetted up they may be good enough to make the playoffs as a 7 or 8 seed but won't go anywhere and won't have the picks or resources to really improve from there. They need to add a franchise changing player this year.

I went to the game last night; Burke makes all the difference in the world. Hayward, Alec Burks, and Favors all had terrific games. So long Jabari. Very short sighted management decison by the Jazz. They should have been playing Lucas and Tinsley all along.