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Thread: The Thread about LDS with doubts

  1. #121
    Jeez. Just legalize it already.

  2. #122
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthwestUteFan View Post
    Jeez. Just legalize it already.
    reefer madness.jpg

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  3. #123
    A friend of mine who lives in Utah who was in the Bishopric at the time he was receiving treatment for testicular cancer used marijuana to help him get through the chemo with the knowledge and support of his Stake President.

  4. #124
    Senior Member Scorcho's Avatar
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    it just seems twisted that until recently opiods were never questioned but cannabis was/is still taboo. What were we thinking?

  5. #125
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    THat's been my sense too, FWIW. Overall I think there's a healthy willingness -- both on the church leadership's side and that of those with doubts -- to openly admit and discuss doubts and faith crises.
    Here's an example I was thinking about when i wrote the above. Not too long ago a publication catering to the mainstream LDS population would never have published something like this:

    https://www.facebook.com/LDSLiving/v...3509466670830/
    Last edited by LA Ute; 08-31-2017 at 12:46 PM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorcho View Post
    it just seems twisted that until recently opiods were never questioned but cannabis was/is still taboo. What were we thinking?
    This is how I feel. My wife suffers from anxiety. Ever since it's become legal here in Nevada, I've told her that I'd rather her use marijuana for her anxiety than Xanax.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  7. #127
    Baby steps here. Start with coffee and the WoW. Its a lot healthier than Coke and Dr. Pepper.

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/10/health...irm/index.html


    http://www.healthline.com/nutrition/...fits-of-coffee

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Here's an example I was thinking about when i wrote the above. Not too long ago a publication catering to the mainstream LDS population would never have published something like this:

    https://www.facebook.com/LDSLiving/v...3509466670830/
    Add this to the Church's recent enthusiastic endorsement for the 'Love Loud' festival and their statement condemning Ayla the Purposeful Wife and her ilk, and a person has to acknowledge that the church is trying to take steps toward being more inclusive.

    I dont understand the Nov 2015 policy and hope that one day its removed or significantly altered, but I do think they are trying. And I think that is a great thing.
    Last edited by LA Ute; 08-31-2017 at 12:46 PM.

  9. #129
    Senior Member Scorcho's Avatar
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    https://www.ksl.com/?sid=45621556&ni...mp-in-pet-food



    We have a Corgi/Healer with anxiety issues, and once again the State of Utah is stepping in to save us from ourselves.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorcho View Post
    https://www.ksl.com/?sid=45621556&ni...mp-in-pet-food



    We have a Corgi/Healer with anxiety issues, and once again the State of Utah is stepping in to save us from ourselves.
    My dog is an atheist, if it becomes legal in Utah he can have all the pot he wants.

  11. #131
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    America’s Invisible Pot Addicts

    More and more Americans are reporting near-constant cannabis use, as legalization forges ahead.

    The first three paragraphs:

    The proliferation of retail boutiques in California did not really bother him, Evan told me, but the billboards did. Advertisements for delivery, advertisements promoting the substance for relaxation, for fun, for health. “Shop. It’s legal.” “Hello marijuana, goodbye hangover.” “It’s not a trigger,” he told me. “But it is in your face.”

    When we spoke, he had been sober for a hard-fought seven weeks: seven weeks of sleepless nights, intermittent nausea, irritability, trouble focusing, and psychological turmoil. There were upsides, he said, in terms of reduced mental fog, a fatter wallet, and a growing sense of confidence that he could quit. “I don’t think it’s a ‘can’ as much as a ‘must,’” he said.

    Evan, who asked that his full name not be used for fear of professional repercussions, has a self-described cannabis-use disorder. If not necessarily because of legalization, but alongside legalization, such problems are becoming more common: The share of adults with one has doubled since the early aughts, as the share of cannabis users who consume it daily or near-daily has jumped nearly 50 percent—all “in the context of increasingly permissive cannabis legislation, attitudes, and lower risk perception,” as the National Institutes of Health put it....


    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/a...wsstand-health

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  12. #132
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    A good read.

    Why People Leave the Church and Never Come Back


    It’s time we examine how we treat those questioning their faith.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    A good read.

    Why People Leave the Church and Never Come Back


    It’s time we examine how we treat those questioning their faith.
    Yeah, that was good. It's just a tricky situation. You have genuine love for someone, and that love can easily be interpreted as judgment or an "agenda." Somehow, his bishop hit the right place and right time for this guy, but I doubt the bishop was the first person to show sincere love for him.

    My sister left the church, and I love her like always. But it's tricky. Sometimes, that love will be interpreted the wrong way. I just don't talk to her about church at all. Then she realizes I'm not talking to her about it, and she wonders why no one asks her about it. She feels like we're afraid, and she's probably right.

    We all have different strengths. Some of us are compassionate, some are patient, some are wise, some are just. We're all a combination of various abilities and weaknesses. Unfortunately, being judgmental is a natural weakness shared by many of us. I'm working on it!

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    A good read.

    Why People Leave the Church and Never Come Back


    It’s time we examine how we treat those questioning their faith.
    I assume that he shared that at the Saturday adult session of stake conference and not the regular Sunday session.

    I have had this conversation multiple times with my wife and I really don’t think there is space for the casual member. We are an all-in or all-out church. Because there is so much asked of the lay members (cleaning the church, week at scout camp, early morning seminary, 3 hours of church, priesthood leadership meetings, attend the temple, serve at the bishop store house, etc., etc., etc.) that we expect everyone to serve and pick up the slack when needed. That doesn’t leave much room for someone that shows up once a month or less. Mormon salvation is demanding.

    I personally feel that much of what we do is busy work and just a way to check a box to let us (but mostly others) know we are righteous. I do think we need changes in church culture.
    Should we be less judgmental and self-righteous, absolutely. Should we be more understanding of each other’s doubts and limitations, of course. But as long as lay members do the lion’s (or better yet, lioness’) share of the church’s work, it will be difficult for the non ‘all-in’ members to feel truly welcome.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Sullyute View Post
    That doesn’t leave much room for someone that shows up once a month or less. Mormon salvation is demanding.
    Yeah, but at the same time, each of my past few wards have a handful of casual members who show up once a month or less.

    It's hard to integrate socially into an organization in that way. My Mormon friendships usually come through shared callings or elders' quorum moves (got one of those tonight!).

  16. #136
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    My sister left the church, and I love her like always. But it's tricky. Sometimes, that love will be interpreted the wrong way. I just don't talk to her about church at all. Then she realizes I'm not talking to her about it, and she wonders why no one asks her about it. She feels like we're afraid, and she's probably right.
    Yeah, this is a challenge for a lot of us. It’s possible to develop a mutually comfortable approach but that does need to mutual — both parties must want that. I’ve succeeded at that with one relative and haven’t with another.

    I’m over-generalizing here, but if an occasionally-attending member feels uncomfortable, the fault for that’s almost always on the more active members. Just my opinion.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    A good read.

    Why People Leave the Church and Never Come Back


    It’s time we examine how we treat those questioning their faith.

    Yes, it is a good read. Thanks.

    I have three kids. My second just didn't connect with the church, and as such, has taken a vacation from it. She's exploring other options (other churches, no church etc.....) and so its uncertain whether its truly a permanent disassociation or not. Yes, I'm disappointed because I want her to connect with the faith of our family, but, she's so doggone nice to us (even allows me to give her father's blessings) that any disappointment quickly passes with the feeling of "dang she's a great kid, especially to me and my wife." After our son's football game last night the four of us (the two adult girls at the U and my wife and me) went out for pancakes, and we laughed and laughed and laughed till all of us were crying.

    I love my association with the church -- and it hasn't always been that way -- but, I love my association with my family even more so I've become better at accepting my kids' decisions as their own unique journey. Since I've been able to accept that for my own kid, where I have a ton of skin in the game, it's been a breeze to accept full activity, less activity or no activity of others. Easy peasy. Plus, see SeattleUte's signature line for the right way to live -- "be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle."
    “Children and dogs are as necessary to the welfare of the country as Wall Street and the railroads.” -- Harry S. Truman

    "You never soar so high as when you stoop down to help a child or an animal." -- Jewish Proverb

    "Three-time Pro Bowler Eric Weddle the most versatile, and maybe most intelligent, safety in the game." -- SI, 9/7/15, p. 107.

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