Seems like we could use a thread like this right about now.
I'll toss this factoid out: Utah is ranked 39th in Sagarin right now and has the 4th-toughest schedule in the nation. That doesn't erase our troubles but it does add some perspective.
I hope Kyle and Co. will set their jaws and make sure they get those 6 wins and get to a bowl. Then this season will have been a step forward for the program.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
I'm pretty sure they'll get to six wins; what's the likely bowl if/when they do? Is it really Fight Hunger?Originally Posted by LA Ute
I hope not. It would be a drag to play another Utah-BYU game this season. Imagine rivalry week for 30 days straight....
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
When Utah/BYU scheduling was a hot topic a few months ago, I looked at how teams with top 10 schedules tend to perform. The conclusion is that teams with top schedules perform poorly on average. It's just too much to deal with, even for the good teams. Conversely, teams that finish in the top 10 usually have a SOS rating in the 20-40 range.
The SEC really does know what it's doing. Playing 4 games against Sun Belt of FCS teams not only gets them 4 easy wins, it also allows them to compete better in their conference games.
That said, our offense is in disarray. We have issues with playcalling, an injured QB, a snakebit QB, a bad stable of WRs, a slow LT, and no TE. The RB position is the only offensive position group that is not a concern yet.
So if you're Kyle and DE, what do you do now?
These ideas come to mind:
Let Wilson heal up and try to help him regain his confidence (although if Frank Dolce is right the only way Wilson can do that is to do well in a game).
Figure out some offensive scheme that is not too predictable and compensates in some way for the limited offensive line, and our receivers' general lack of speed.
Figure out how to avoid being boat-raced by Oregon and ASU.
Figure out how to keep the players motivated after being boat-raced by ASU and Oregon, if that happens.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
I don't know if there's a magic scheme that can be implemented in two weeks to cover up all our offensive issues.
It's a tricky situation now with Wilson/Shulz. If Wilson can recover, we obviously want him. If WIlson is not going to get his hand/confidence back, we need to get Shulz a lot of reps these two weeks.
I don't know how the coaches are supposed to know right now which QB option is better.
We need to get to 6 wins and a bowl game. If the coaches believe that burning Albers redshirt or Manning's redshirt give us the best chance of doing this, I would absolutely do it.
I don't think we need to change our scheme to have some offensive success. We do need to find some ways to give the tackles some help. This can be done with a TE attached to a line who chips the DE before going into the pattern or by doing the same thing with a FB. The RB is always going to scan and release if there is no pressure.
I'm not sure there is a way to not get boat raced by Oregon and there seems to be very little way to do it against ASU.
I love Kyle like I love being dealt pocket aces and leftover spaghetti carbonara. But I can't get past a couple of things: Why is Kyle consistently trotting out injured QBs? Remember, the decision to redshirt Brian in 2006 was Brian's. It didn't come from Kyle. Who brought in Brian to try and rescue the UNLV game in 2007? I think that game is still haunting us. Because Kyle doesn't have faith in the backup. Or he's being too hard-school and figure QBs can still perform at a high level in spite of being compromised physically by injury. Wynn's career was likely ruined in this fashion, and we're in the early stages of it happening to Travis. We're damn lucky it didn't get worse with Brian in 2007 after his broken collarbone.
This will sound harsh, but the head coach who cannot properly manage -- or worse, consistently mismanages -- his quarterbacks is of zero value in today's college game. I think the true litmus test for Kyle in this regard is the day our starting QB suffers a concussion.
The only other option I can think of is that Kyle is getting bad information from the medical staff, or that the medical staff are merely puppets and tell Kyle what he wants to hear. This would not be the first time an athlete was rushed back into action despite some reservations from doctors as to his ability to perform at an acceptable level.
If Kyle goes Mac on Manning or Cox and turns them into Alex Smith 2.0 in burning a season for a couple of series, he might as well resign at season's end.
Fearless prediction: Finn won't be back with next year's team under any circumstance. I doubt Chris Hill has ever had to pull rank on Kyle and demand some shuffling on the offensive staff that Kyle was reluctant to do. I think Hill is well within his rights as the athletic department CEO to demand it this year, and Finn is clearly the outsider, weak link, etc.
Obviously, the season is not over, not even close, but we've certainly lost any momentum we had from the Stanford win, IMO. The team also doesn't seem to know what to do when it gets hit in the mouth, which, I think is interesting.
When I watch Wilson play right now, he reminds me of watching RGIII towards the end of last season. He very clearly isn't right, and the coaches are trying to compensate for his inability to throw by making him run more...which makes no sense and only gets him more banged up. He also has zip in the way of confidence right now.
IF Wilson isn't healthy and needs to be sat down and IF Schultz is mostly John Hays 2.0, then I think they have to burn one of those redshirts. I'd like to see one of these young QBs prove himself to be the second coming of Alex Smith, or even BJ before we start wringing our hands over burning the redshirt of either one of them. Alex Smith was a pretty special player, and while I'd love to think that Manning or Cox have that potential, we're going to have to see that proven, IMO.
If for nothing else, we need to get to 6-6 to get the extra practices heading into next year regardless of who the QB is.
I've heard a lot over the last few years about all this depth we're recruiting at WR...and frankly, I'm not seeing it. If we have guys that can contribute to this team in a positive way...at any position, I think we need to roll them out there, or at least we needed to.
The ASU game will be an interesting test to see whether or not this team still believes it can get it done, or if it shot its wad against Stanford.
“It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.”
Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.
So, the PAC 12 Bowl Projections have the Utes going to something called the Heart of Dallas bowl. The interesting thing to me is that it is on January 1, which is a lot of extra practice and would put them playing a game what? 6 weeks shy of Spring ball? If they could get to 6-6, it wouldn't be the worst bowl in the world.
“It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.”
Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.
Add Roderick to the list. How our WRs underperform year after year and this guy still has a job is beyond me.
I can never tell if our WRs are underperforming or if we just don't have very good WRs.
I do think our WRs improved a lot in blocking this season.
i agree on roderick. he has been underwhelming as a coach.
I count three separate times when KW passed on him for the OC job (The Schram/A-Rod failed experiment, Chow, BJ/Dennis). At some point, don't you just move on if you're him?
“It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.”
Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.
I think his wife is the women's soccer coach at Utah. That must be a factor.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
I dont think she has been that for a ocuple of years. May not even be employed at the U at all.
The common refrain I hear (from people who are better judges than I am) is that most of our WRs lack speed and can't get separation from speedy PAC-12 DBs. Add that to poor protection for our QB and you get stats like 7 of 20 passing against USC.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
Never the head coach, no longer at Utah.
Ah. Thanks. I don't remember the details, but I know there were personal/family concerns in the mix.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
I will say that if you had told me at the start of the year that Scott would go down in game 1, Murphy and Tonga would go down a few games in, and Wilson would get hurt in the Stanford game to the extent where it's an open question as to whether he or Schulz would be playing, I would have been absolutely giddy to be 4-4 at this point.
This team has some serious flaws. We don't have any depth at those three positions (QB, TE, and WR). If our front-line guys were still healthy, we would be fine there, but that's not likely to happen, although the extent of the injuries has been surprising. Combine that with the fact that we have an offensive line consisting of 5 guys who should all probably be guards, with a left tackle who might be quick enough to handle right tackle, and it's really not a surprise that our offense is completely inept. The good news is that next year we will start to see a bit more true QB depth, and that we are also (apparently) bringing in 2 guys who are true, top-level offensive tackles (although they probably won't be ready to step in and man those positions for a couple of years). Those two things should go a long way towards solving some of our offensive woes, although it may be a couple of years before the linemen are really ready to step in.
My biggest concern is that I'm not sure we've brought in a single true P12 level receiver since Scott and Anderson. It seemed like Pedroza could have been, but obviously that didn't work out. We're really going to need a couple of guys from the Brian Allen/Dominique Hatfield/Delshawn McClellon group to step up in the next few years, but I haven't seen a lot there yet to give me hope.
Since joining the P12, Utah is 3-7 on the road with an average loss margin of 16.6 (range of 7-30). Honestly, if you can win 1 or 2 road games every year (and win 75% of your home games) in this conference, you're doing pretty well.
How big is Allen? seems like all our future receivers are either smurfs (mcClellon, Hatfield, Norwood) or too slow to see the field.
The size/speed combination gets a WR a 4-5 star rating. It's tough to rope those guys in.
Allen is big - he's 6'3". I just hope he has enough speed to take advantage of his size. We also have a couple of bigger guys currently committed in Brandon Snell (6'2" JuCo) and Raelon Singleton (6'5" out of high school in Texas).
When I started reading this thread I was thinking the exact same thing. Injuries have really bitten Utah and lack of depth is hurting the team as many predicted it would be should it be exposed. Without losing Scott, Murphy, Tonga and TWilson's index finger, Utah is at least 5-3 (2-3 PAC12) right now with a pretty decent chance at standing at 6-2 or better, and we are not having this midseason "come-to-jesus" thread discussion.
To get back to the question at hand "where do we go from here?", I would think that you just keep shooting for a bowl game and make that the official team goal at this point. I don't care about burning red shirts of unknown commodities. I kind of like the idea of testing some of what we have in the QB cupboard ahead of schedule, and letting QB's compete for the job next year if that is how it goes. That is how depth is developed, right?
I think that OLine definitely needs to be targeted for improvement in the coming off-season, however that is to be accomplished, but I think that we are really seeing it exposed as a weekness the past two games primarily because the offense has lost the majority of its potency, and is now much more easily defended.
If we make a bowl game after all of these injuries, this season will have been a very nice step forward from last year.
Injuries have killed our delusions of grandeur.
a kid like jackson barton might be asked to step in day one and be a starter. he does bring the size at tackle that we need 6'6" 300.
OK, I'm going to take a brief whine break.
I've gone to three football games and two basketball games here in L.A. since we joined the PAC-12 and we are 0 for 5 in those games. I went to the Cal basketball game last winter. Another loss, a bad one. So after 6 major sports contests we've lost them all. Only one of the football losses has been embarrassing, so we have that going for us.
I attended one gymnastics meet with UCLA. We lost that one too.
This is getting kind of old.
OK, that's over. I like crazyute's approach, thinking about the future. Hope is good.
Last edited by LA Ute; 10-28-2013 at 09:12 PM.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
Uhm stop going to games. Please.
He tried. He accepted a job at byu last year. Then he learned that coaches meetings more closely resembles Elder's Quorum or Missionary District Meetings than an actual COACHES MEETING (including opening the meeting by praying to be led by The Holy Spirit to find those football players who are prepared to serve The Lord by playing for byu) , and realized he made a dreadful mistake and begged Kyle to hire him back. Kyle trusts him for whatever reason, so he let him back for 'the last time'.
LA, ARod's wife is an attorney in SLC and doesn't want to leave. You should have known that since you Reptilians tend to flock together.
(Kidding! I love attorneys)
Seconded.
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