Agreed. I loved Hanno.Originally Posted by concerned
Agreed. I loved Hanno.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
To compare Loveridge to Bogut is the definition of crazy expectations. On the other hand, it's easy to forget that other players LA listed had ups and downs. Vranes/Chanbers/Mannion didn't even get an NCAA bid V/C's junior season. Andre Miller improved substantially every year. And all those guys played against much weaker competition. I wish there was an Internet the night Wake Forest & Duncan came into the Huntsman Center and handled the Utes with Van Horn a senior and Miller a sophomore. I'd quote from some posts.
If we wanted to keep recruiting Boguts some people shouldn't have been so quick to turn on Majerus.
One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.
--Albert Einstein
The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.
--Richard Dawkins
Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.
--Philo
I think most people here have come to a consensus that Jordan is not the guy who is going to lead the Utes back to greatness. He has a chance to be part of a Ute team or two that could do that. My point in bringing up Newlin, Vranes, Van Horn et al. was that Jordan is not like them; no one ever was making excuses for them disappearing for entire halves, having a bad attitude, and so forth. Most people here agree. My hope is that Jordan will become like those former players.
I do recall the difference between Vranes-Chambers as juniors and as seniors. It was remarkable. Here's hoping we see something like that happen with JL and Delon W.
SU, you're not still promoting the "Majerus was run out of town by ungrateful fans" myth, are you?
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
Andre Miller was not being penciled for the NBA, much less a lottery pick his sophomore year.
Really, I don't want to be a pious ass. But I have to say I have a problem writing off this 19 year old kid's NBA dream in a public place, even on this board. If I were his dad I'd really be steamed at some people here. What do these words cost us, nothing. What's the point of these criticisms other than to vent middle aged fans' spleen. But they probably matter to him though I hope he'd put them in perspective.
I like him a lot. I've said why he's a good player particularly as a sophomore. Just his stats are impressive. His rebounding and defense speak to his character. I like his on-court demeanor. I like the fact that he came to Utah when Utah was a laughing stock. I say let's see what happens and give him the benefit of the doubt.
One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.
--Albert Einstein
The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.
--Richard Dawkins
Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.
--Philo
I think his opinion is ok. BUT, the important thing is to remember that it is his opinion. Right now, I'm not sure Loveridge or Wright can expect to have any sort of careers in the NBA. Both have NBA skills and both have HUGE weaknesses that will keep them out of the NBA.
The good news is, both players have the ability to get better. Their holes aren't unfixable holes. Coach K and crew are amazing coaches. If they keep working their tails off, Utah will improve immensely, and both could play in the NBA and leave legacies of the foundation of the PAC-12 Utes.
Love them both, and am so excited for the NIT to start to get some more Running Utes before we hit the dreaded sports summer break.
Everyone knew Andre Miller was going to be special when he was a sophomore. His points per game increased from 10 to 14 to 16 over the three years, but otherwise it is hard to find any significant statistical difference between his sophomore year and his junior/senior years: http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/pla...h/andre-miller
Just to be clear, my original post was about the need to be realistic about next season -- to "tap the brakes," as SCP might say. Our entire 2014 team, minus only Lenz and plus Kuzma and Chapman, is returning. So what ceiling does each player have?
I love our coach and our players, but the team is one that Kodiak has brilliantly cobbled together. Every key player has some significant limitation. None (so far) is "the entire package." That's OK, it's a testament both to Kodiak and to the team's willingness to be coached and work hard. LK says over and over that it's the best group he's ever coached without a turd (his word) in the bunch.
Next year we can be sure they'll all work as hard as they have this year, that Kodiak and crew have learned how to work with them, that Kuzma and Chapman will find their places and may well contribute a lot. I think Kuzma may well start. With their work ethic Loveridge and Wright will have new skills and will sharpen the ones they have. (Loveridge lost 20+ pounds between this season and last -- that alone shows how hard he is willing to work.) We don't know how much they will improve.
Again, I'm just saying (as you often have) that we ought to enjoy the ride and not expect an Elite 8 appearance next year. I think it will be a great year and it's a great time to be a Ute basketball fan.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
I think Utah will make the tourney for the next couple of years, and it might not be until Loveridge graduates that we are finally deep enough to start winning tourney games and competing for PAC-12 titles.
This will cheer up even the most pessimistic Ute fans. A really great and informative interview with Phil Cullen, who comes across as a very impressive analyst:
http://espn.kall700sports.com/phil-c...camps-3-14-14/
Some good info about the NIT, how the team came together in the early going, who the team leaders are, the new basketball facility, who gets to come watch practice. He's very articulate. Glad he's on the Utah staff.
Last edited by LA Ute; 03-14-2014 at 10:55 PM.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
There is no doubt in my mind Jordon has a high basketball IQ. He does have limitations that he needs to find ways to overcome.
It is interesting to see that Colorado didn't fare much better than we did.
Arizona brought their big boy jocks to the tournament.
Or maybe he's a true-soph.
"It'd be nice to please everyone but I thought it would be more interesting to have a point of view." -- Oscar Levant
The players you mention didn't play the same level of competition.
"It'd be nice to please everyone but I thought it would be more interesting to have a point of view." -- Oscar Levant
I get a kick out of fans -- it's not just Ute fans, right -- who are quick to write players off.
"It'd be nice to please everyone but I thought it would be more interesting to have a point of view." -- Oscar Levant
If you're talking about me your misunderstood. Based on the available evidence, I'm trying to prognosticate a bit about next year's team. Who's going to step up, and what's the basis for thinking so?
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
:backpedal:
One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.
--Albert Einstein
The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.
--Richard Dawkins
Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.
--Philo
Correct.
One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.
--Albert Einstein
The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.
--Richard Dawkins
Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.
--Philo
Does anyone besides me remember how angry and frustrated we all were when Vranes and Chambers as juniors failed even to qualify for the NCAA playoffs, in the WAC, and were twice annihilated by BYU (Ainge)? they redeemed themselves the next year and went on to become lottery picks.
One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.
--Albert Einstein
The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.
--Richard Dawkins
Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.
--Philo
C'mon, read my posts. I'm talking about what we should look forward to and I think we should be realistic about where the current talent can take us. Lots of people here have predicted that we are going to go to the Sweet 16 next year simply because this year the Utes came close in many games against top-flight competition. You're Mr. "enjoy the ride." Is that still your position? Or do you really think we are on the verge of PAC-12 glory? I would rather give the program a couple more years, progressing at its current rate.
My guess is that by the time Jordan is a senior this team may have the talent and experience to do some damage in the Dance. He will be a significant contributor to that effort as long as he can learn not to disappear for entire halves, or even entire games, something the other players we have mentioned never did -- or, if they did disappear they didn't do it repeatedly.
Your claim that the higher level of competition Jordan faces excuses his lapses in performance doesn't help your argument much. If you are right, that means that those former players were not capable of playing in the PAC-12 any better than Jordan has. It also means (a) that Kodiak needs to recruit even better and to build more talented teams than have ever existed at Utah, because (b) Jordan is a WAC-level talent. Surely you aren't saying that?
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
What does "write players off" mean? I'm a Loveridge fan and believer who does not think Jordan will pay in the nba. Have I written him off? I do think he's great, and he can get even better.
LOL. I get a kick out of fans that don't comprehend what was written. Who has written Loveridge off? Who has said anything negative about him?
OK, I'm a day or two late to this discussion and I've made my points about Jordan, who seems to be dominating this topic. Now I'm biased (which is why my opinion here will appear spirited), cuz Brandon was a good acquaintance when we were at the U. and his pops (ex-NFL WR Ron Jessie, who played for my Bills when I was a kid -- RIP) is a class guy. But there is no way Jordan is better now than Brandon Jessie ever was. That's crack-cocaine batshit crazy talk.
First off, they don't even play the same position. Jess was a natural 2 who had crazy enough athleticism to get an NFL tryout after college. He's probably the best glass-crashing guard Utah has ever had (he's the only guard ever at Utah to rank top 10 in single-season offensive rebounds) and could finish in traffic (shot 47 percent from the field without a lot of 3s, which is pretty good for a guard). Finally, go back and see how Jess single-handedly destroyed UNM in the 1995 WAC semis. That game was in the Pit, Utah won by 36 (which I believe is still UNM's worst loss at home) and Jessie scores 28.
Brandon Jessie destroyed New Mexico. That phrase speaks volumes. This team destroyed Pac 12 champ UCLA and should have beaten Arizona. Those old Utah teams did not face the same challenges this one does. Those comparisons are not helpful.
One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.
--Albert Einstein
The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.
--Richard Dawkins
Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.
--Philo
Maybe no on here is writing him off, but there are a few who seem to have decided that he is going to be limited.
"It'd be nice to please everyone but I thought it would be more interesting to have a point of view." -- Oscar Levant
I remember seeing John Stockton play as a rookie for the Jazz, in the old Salt Palace. Right away you could see he was going to be a very good player but, at the same time, I didn't know he was going to be a hall of famer.
"It'd be nice to please everyone but I thought it would be more interesting to have a point of view." -- Oscar Levant
I can't speak for others. My view is that he may well turn out to be a great one but that Utah fans should keep their expectations modest for now.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
You're full of bad comparisons in this entire thread. Your Chambers/Vranes one from earlier wouldn't have happened then if the field was the size it was today.
Utah beat UCLA by 5, at home. A very good win, but a galaxy from "destroyed." Should have beaten Arizona? We should have beaten a lot of teams this year.
In 1980 the field was 48 and the Ute were tied for second in the WAC and 18-10. They would not have made the NCAA tournament today with that. Ridiculous comparisons. Look who's talking. New Mexico is not UCLA, and when Jessie was a sophomore he was a juco.
One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.
--Albert Einstein
The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.
--Richard Dawkins
Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.
--Philo
Kodiak's post-game interview right after the Arizona game:
http://pac-12.com/videos/2014-pac-12...ilding-program
Worth watching.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
I love how little "coach speak" you get from K. He his honest, but concentrates on the positives.
I also appreciate that he gives credit where credit is due, both to the opponents, and to our players (both good and bad).
“It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.”
Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.
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