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Thread: The Kyle Whittingham Thread

  1. #1021
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Kyle gets serious respect from CBS Sports in its ranking of P5 coaches:

    The https://www.petersacco.com/provillus-review-and-results provillus.
    Yeah, that's not too bad!
    Last edited by Quezada; 01-06-2018 at 02:56 AM.

  2. #1022
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    This made the rounds on Twitter last night. I'll just leave it here without comment.

    It starts with:

    Thanks for printing the details about University of Utah football coach Kyle Whittingham's contract. Are other people as outraged as I am about this?
    I'll let you read the rest.

    http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/547083...achs-salary-is

  3. #1023
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    If nothing else, Kyle is bad ass.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  4. #1024
    And smart, with that UA logo above that muscular leg. Lol.

  5. #1025
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    About three years after I started this thread, I feel much better about Kyle's future at Utah. He's built the program to a point where I feel he's a lifer at Utah.

    But before we start building statues of him, he's gotta take the program up another step. It doesn't have to be an eternal step -- I don't think we'll ever be an Ohio State or USC. But we can be a Virginia Tech or Kansas State (feel free to come up with more appropriate examples). Maybe even eclipse the feats of those programs. And I'm OK with that.

    The baseline is making it to a bowl game. That alone does not get me excited. Neither does winning 8-9 games. We're long overdue to win the South, especially after Colorado's worst-to-first season last year. (Try as I might, I realize fans have different things that make them satisfied and happy. But last year's CU season should sting for every Utah fan out there). Three coaches in our division are being led to the firing squad as I type this. Finishing behind one of UCLA/Arizona/ASU would be disappointing, but not unexpected in college football. Finishing behind two of them would be disheartening. Finishing behind all three of them -- well, I'm not ready to go there yet. I don't think any of us are ready to opine on what that would mean if it were to happen.

    Winning the South should be this program's goal every year. It's a realistic one, hammered home by the fact that we've largely held our own destiny in our hands heading into the final home game of the year in 2011-14-15-16. Give any program that many bites at the apple, they'll devour the whole thing eventually.

    Things I'll get excited about in lieu of winning the South: Making it to a NY6 game (or better), eclipsing our best regular-season ranking in the AP poll (No. 3, in 2015) at any point in the season, or having a top 4 ranking in any of the CFP rankings.

    The good news is, despite the schedule, we've always fared well with a multi-year starter senior at QB. Wilson, Brian, Alex and McCoy all have distinctions in their career that rise above anything their predecessors did. I'm optimistic Troy can add to that. The Taylor addition has every indicator of being a solid hire, perhaps even a dynamic hire. The talent and depth is there, and Kyle's M.O. of line strength and dynamic special teams are refreshing in an era where scoring 50-plus points while giving up 40-plus is viewed as "exciting" football.

    What represents a "slide" from last year? Not being in position to win the South heading into the final home game against CU. Maybe we'll need some help, and that's OK. Losing yet another chance won't be OK, but at least that means we're treading water. Give us enough bites, and we'll swallow it whole. It can happen this year, and I hope it will happen this year, but I know it will eventually happen in some year.

  6. #1026
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    About three years after I started this thread, I feel much better about Kyle's future at Utah. He's built the program to a point where I feel he's a lifer at Utah.

    But before we start building statues of him, he's gotta take the program up another step. It doesn't have to be an eternal step -- I don't think we'll ever be an Ohio State or USC. But we can be a Virginia Tech or Kansas State (feel free to come up with more appropriate examples). Maybe even eclipse the feats of those programs. And I'm OK with that.

    The baseline is making it to a bowl game. That alone does not get me excited. Neither does winning 8-9 games. We're long overdue to win the South, especially after Colorado's worst-to-first season last year. (Try as I might, I realize fans have different things that make them satisfied and happy. But last year's CU season should sting for every Utah fan out there). Three coaches in our division are being led to the firing squad as I type this. Finishing behind one of UCLA/Arizona/ASU would be disappointing, but not unexpected in college football. Finishing behind two of them would be disheartening. Finishing behind all three of them -- well, I'm not ready to go there yet. I don't think any of us are ready to opine on what that would mean if it were to happen.

    Winning the South should be this program's goal every year. It's a realistic one, hammered home by the fact that we've largely held our own destiny in our hands heading into the final home game of the year in 2011-14-15-16. Give any program that many bites at the apple, they'll devour the whole thing eventually.

    Things I'll get excited about in lieu of winning the South: Making it to a NY6 game (or better), eclipsing our best regular-season ranking in the AP poll (No. 3, in 2015) at any point in the season, or having a top 4 ranking in any of the CFP rankings.

    The good news is, despite the schedule, we've always fared well with a multi-year starter senior at QB. Wilson, Brian, Alex and McCoy all have distinctions in their career that rise above anything their predecessors did. I'm optimistic Troy can add to that. The Taylor addition has every indicator of being a solid hire, perhaps even a dynamic hire. The talent and depth is there, and Kyle's M.O. of line strength and dynamic special teams are refreshing in an era where scoring 50-plus points while giving up 40-plus is viewed as "exciting" football.

    What represents a "slide" from last year? Not being in position to win the South heading into the final home game against CU. Maybe we'll need some help, and that's OK. Losing yet another chance won't be OK, but at least that means we're treading water. Give us enough bites, and we'll swallow it whole. It can happen this year, and I hope it will happen this year, but I know it will eventually happen in some year.
    This is almost optimistic, which is somewhat exciting.

  7. #1027
    I think Utah can become a Washington level program.

    We have talent in the state. Right now, there are over 30 kids in Utah rated 3 stars or higher. That's never happened before, but I think it's a sign of things to come.

    We are willing to pay for coaches.

    We have facilities.

    Our only "big" negative are the fans and mormon culture, which seem to be the same.

    I don't think we'd always hit this level, but I think the goals should be:

    Win the south every year.
    Be ranked every year.
    Top 25 recruiting class every year.
    Rose Bowl once every five years.
    PAC-12 champs once every ten years.
    Playoffs once every 20 years.

  8. #1028
    Quote Originally Posted by Utah View Post
    Our only "big" negative are the fans and mormon culture, which seem to be the same.
    .
    LOL! Can you expand on that theory?

  9. #1029
    Quote Originally Posted by Sullyute View Post
    LOL! Can you expand on that theory?
    Theory? When Whitt says his toughest job in recruiting is getting a kid to visit...

    It is what it is. Be proud. Utah is full of peculiar people. Just own it.

    Oh, and quit whining about Hayward and stop tweeting at recruits. That doesn't help.

  10. #1030
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    Quote Originally Posted by Utah View Post
    I think Utah can become a Washington level program.
    That's an upward climb. UW has an enormous alumni base. I think Michigan's is the only one larger (by sheer numbers).

  11. #1031
    Quote Originally Posted by Utah View Post
    Theory? When Whitt says his toughest job in recruiting is getting a kid to visit...

    It is what it is. Be proud. read this review Utah is full of peculiar people. Just own it.

    Oh, and quit whining about Hayward and stop tweeting at recruits. That doesn't help.
    Whitt is right. And so are you. Good reply, mate.
    Last edited by KennethCruz; 10-22-2018 at 08:49 AM.

  12. #1032
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    How many people really believe Kyle has a clean slate with Harlan simply because Harlan is new to the job?

    How many November collapses does Harlan have to see before he's had enough?

    Did you know Kyle got a bonus of about $125K for last week's win against UCLA? It made Utah bowl eligible and it triggered another clause in his contract that warranted a bonus of two months' pay. Nowhere is mediocrity rewarded more than in college sports, but I suppose the money has to go somewhere, seeing it can't go to the players.

    I think most Utah fans who share my frustration have two directions they can travel -- object even more to Kyle's lack of performance in the clutch, or stop caring altogether. I find myself drifting more toward the latter. Neither is good for the football program. I also think Kyle is protected by a strong secondary ticket market that has masked what season ticket sales are really like. There are hundreds of tickets available at StubHub for our game against Oregon. They all didn't just show up there in the last 6 hours after the ASU loss.

  13. #1033
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    How many people really believe Kyle has a clean slate with Harlan simply because Harlan is new to the job?

    How many November collapses does Harlan have to see before he's had enough?

    Did you know Kyle got a bonus of about $125K for last week's win against UCLA? It made Utah bowl eligible and it triggered another clause in his contract that warranted a bonus of two months' pay. Nowhere is mediocrity rewarded more than in college sports, but I suppose the money has to go somewhere, seeing it can't go to the players.

    I think most Utah fans who share my frustration have two directions they can travel -- object even more to Kyle's lack of performance in the clutch, or stop caring altogether. I find myself drifting more toward the latter. Neither is good for the football program. I also think Kyle is protected by a strong secondary ticket market that has masked what season ticket sales are really like. There are hundreds of tickets available at StubHub for our game against Oregon. They all didn't just show up there in the last 6 hours after the ASU loss.
    Omg sleep it off old man.

  14. #1034
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    The Kyle Whittingham Thread

    It all comes down to whether one thinks Utah can do better. If you don’t think so then Kyle’s consistent failures to seal the deal are acceptable. Somewhere in that group is the subgroup that refuses to hold Kyle accountable and finds a way to excuse every collapse.

    On the other hand, you do think we can do better than Kyle it’s tough to maintain enthusiasm for the program.

    Personally, I hope Kyle stays at Utah until he retires, and I hope that happens after his current contract expires in 2021. I wonder if Harlan will make that decision for Kyle.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  15. #1035
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scorcho View Post
    Omg sleep it off old man.
    That’s the best you got?

  16. #1036
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    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    It all comes down to whether one thinks Utah can do better. If you don’t think so then Kyle’s consistent failures to seal the deal are acceptable. Somewhere in that group is the subgroup that refuses to hold Kyle accountable and finds a way to excuse every collapse.

    On the other hand, you do think we can do better than Kyle it’s tough to maintain enthusiasm for the program.

    Personally, I hope Kyle stays at Utah until he retires, and I hope that happens after his current contract expires in 2021. I wonder if Harlan will make that decision for Kyle.
    Your end game scenario is acceptable for a coach who has done it all. Kyle is still relatively young by coaching standards, and would only be 61 in your scenario. Unless he plans on going out on top, it’s far more likely he’s fired before 2021 than he would be given a retirement tour in that year.

  17. #1037
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    The Kyle Whittingham Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    Your end game scenario is acceptable for a coach who has done it all. Kyle is still relatively young by coaching standards, and would only be 61 in your scenario. Unless he plans on going out on top, it’s far more likely he’s fired before 2021 than he would be given a retirement tour in that year.
    I’m just talking about what I hope happens, because although he’s hit his ceiling Kyle has done so much for Utah football. I felt the same way about McBride. He was offered a position in the U administration but wouldn’t take it. Kyle’s contract gives him a similar sinecure (at $300K a year for 10 years) if he retires at Utah. That would be a nice, graceful ending and could avoid the disruption of a firing. Will the program be OK after three more years of Whitt, and will Harlan be that patient? I don’t know. I hope so.
    Last edited by LA Ute; 11-04-2018 at 06:32 AM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  18. #1038
    Is it normal for fanbases to go from breaking down playoff scenarios to firing the coach in one week? I'm legitimately asking, do other fans do this or is this a Utah thing?

    Sadly, this will probably be an ugly November and will feed into the "Whittingham can't win in November" narrative. I think the real narrative with this one is that we lost our QB and didn't have an adequate backup (maybe Shelley will prove us wrong on that assertion). That's still on the coaches but it's a much more understandable, fixable problem. Then again, I've always chalked up the tough Novembers to Utah getting banged up and not having sufficient depth because they still lag behind most of the conference in recruiting.

  19. #1039
    Quote Originally Posted by UBlender View Post
    Is it normal for fanbases to go from breaking down playoff scenarios to firing the coach in one week? I'm legitimately asking, do other fans do this or is this a Utah thing?
    I think it is normal. SEC fan bases are notoriously fickle. LSU and Auburn both somewhat recently fired coaches who won national championships.

  20. #1040
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UBlender View Post
    Is it normal for fanbases to go from breaking down playoff scenarios to firing the coach in one week? I'm legitimately asking, do other fans do this or is this a Utah thing?

    Sadly, this will probably be an ugly November and will feed into the "Whittingham can't win in November" narrative. I think the real narrative with this one is that we lost our QB and didn't have an adequate backup (maybe Shelley will prove us wrong on that assertion). That's still on the coaches but it's a much more understandable, fixable problem. Then again, I've always chalked up the tough Novembers to Utah getting banged up and not having sufficient depth because they still lag behind most of the conference in recruiting.
    I just hope he retires after a nice 17 year run as the winningest coach in the history of the program, the one with the terrific bowl record in middle-of-the road bowls (too many of them in Las Vegas), one glorious BCS win, and the one who took us into the PAC 12. Unless things change immediately, he’ll also be remembered as the one who frequently got the team close to the summit, but whose team was upset in the crucial game. That’s not horrible, it’s just his record, and everyone will remember Kyle fondly, just as we do Ron McBride, who brought us up to the prior plateau.

    My $.02.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  21. #1041
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I just hope he retires after a nice 17 year run as the winningest coach in the history of the program
    I'm with you, but I hope it's 27 years instead of 17.

    everyone will remember Kyle fondly
    Surely. We may also remember him as the guy we should have held on to. Or the guy who won our first Pac-12 title.

    Couple weeks ago, I mentioned how lucky Harlan is to have landed such a sweet AD gig. I realize now what his challenge is. His job is to keep the nutty fans/boosters at bay.

  22. #1042
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    It all comes down to whether one thinks Utah can do better.
    I guess this is true. There are a few camps here:

    1) The camp that thinks that a new coach turns Utah into a perennial top 10 team. This camp is naive. I don't think any posters here fall into this camp.

    2) The camp that understands the risks but would like to roll the dice anyway. For this camp, merely being good is infuriating. It's greatness or bust. They are willing to accept bad odds for a small chance at greatness. These are the gamblers, the people who don't understand percentages.

    3) The camp that is satisfied with good. These are the content. They may never go to a Rose Bowl, and they're alright with that.

    4) The camp that hates losing more than they love winning. They would rather keep a sure thing than risk becoming a cellar dweller. These are the afraid.

    5) The camp that has always gotten what they want because they have money. Their minds can't fathom the idea of not being able to buy something, including a Rose Bowl trophy. These are the spoiled.

    6) The camp that will go down with the ship. These are the people intensely loyal to someone who doesn't even know them.

    7) The camp that looks around at other programs and weighs the evidence. These are the scientists. They do understand percentages.

    There's always a chance that a new coach takes us to the college football promised land. Based on evidence, it's a slim chance. But it's a chance. I guess I can understand that someone would want to take that chance. There are a lot of people who are more inclined to take risks than I am. It's a high risk/high reward mindset that doesn't resonate with me.

    There's also a chance that Kyle wins another national title for us. It could happen. It's also a slim chance. The downside, however, is minimal. Kyle is not going to start fielding awful teams.

    One last thing - if Harlan's first major move at Utah is to force Kyle Whittingham into an early retirement...well, that's not a good look. He'd better absolutely nail that new hire. He landed into a sweet job that he can have for a long time, and I don't think he'll be crazy enough to risk that.

  23. #1043
    The fact of the matter is winning the PAC 12 is hard, which is why some pretty phenomenal programs like USC, Washington and Oregon, and great coaches like David Shaw, can't do it regularly.

    I have a hard time going from singing Whit and Taylor praises a week ago, to throwing them under the bus this week and dismissing them as mediocre, particularly when your starting QB goes down and a redshirt frosh replaces him. Remember we shellacked USC when Darnold played his first game, and he was the #3 pick in the NFL this year and on a team stacked with talent.

  24. #1044
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    The Kyle Whittingham Thread

    I don’t know that you’ve described all the “camps” fairly, but whatever. Here’s how I see it:

    1. We are seeing pretty much the same thing every season. 7-8 wins; a bad November; losing a heart-breaker/head-scratcher game when a win would have gotten us into the championship game; a win in a minor bowl game.

    2. There’s no reason to believe this will change. It’s a long-running pattern. It is Kyle’s body of work in the PAC-12.

    3. IMO, Kyle’s earned the right to stay until he retires.

    4. Therefore. I hope he retires at the end of his current contract. If 2019 and 2020 are basically replays of the prior 8 seasons, I don’t think Harlan will want to discuss a new contract with Kyle anyway.
    Last edited by LA Ute; 11-04-2018 at 10:11 PM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  25. #1045
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I don’t know that you’ve described all the “camps” fairly
    Feel free to add to the list.

    1. We are seeing pretty much the same thing every season. 7-8 wins; a bad November; losing a heart-breaker/head-scratcher game when a win would have gotten us into the championship game; a win in a minor bowl game.
    Yes, we are a good, not great, program. A top 20-30 P5 program. Many programs would love to be us. They fire their coach every three years trying to be us. But, there are certainly better programs.

    If 2019 and 2020 are basically replays of the prior 8 seasons, I don’t think Harlan will want to discuss a new contract with Kyle anyway.
    The prior 8 seasons have seen a steady improvement in recruiting and a number of top 25 finishes. If Harlan fires Kyle after two more of those, Harlan will not be a P5 AD for very long.

  26. #1046
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    The fact of the matter is winning the PAC 12 is hard, which is why some pretty phenomenal programs like USC, Washington and Oregon, and great coaches like David Shaw, can't do it regularly.
    The Pac-12 champion will usually be a playoff contender, one of the top few teams in the nation.

  27. #1047
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post




    Yes, we are a good, not great, program. A top 20-30 P5 program. Many programs would love to be us. They fire their coach every three years trying to be us. But, there are certainly better programs.



    How many of those programs are below us in revenue? It would be interesting to compare ranking or strength or whatever, nondimensionalized against revenue.

    An interesting case is Texas A&M. They went 9-4, 8-5, 8-5, 8-5, 7-6, then paid $75M to replace their coach. Their revenue is somewhere over $200M (against expenses of $146M - wildly profitable). Texas has a bad record of late, yet still had $215M in revenue last year.

    Utah on the other hand is on the verge of breaking $80M (over $79M in 2017, latest figures), and that feels like we are now high rollers.

    Maybe we are already overachieving by having a coach as talented as Kyle Whittingham. We are very close to Oregon State in revenue and in coaching salaries. We are very far behind Oregon, UW, Colorado, ASU, Arizona, Cal, and probably USC and Stanford in both revenue and in coaching salaries. It isn't much of a stretch to see how we could regress toward the OSU mean if a new staff came in.

    How many of the Fire Whitt fans would stand for a 3-5 year rebuild, with a completely different feel to the team dynamic and the program? I doubt they would even have the patience of CU or WSU fans and would want the new staff fired after 3 years of mediocrity.

  28. #1048
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthwestUteFan View Post
    How many of the Fire Whitt fans would stand for a 3-5 year rebuild, with a completely different feel to the team dynamic and the program? I doubt they would even have the patience of CU or WSU fans and would want the new staff fired after 3 years of mediocrity.
    This is why firing him is a bad idea. By 2020 when Harlan is looking At renewing Whitt’s contract, we’ll have almost 10 years in the PAC-12 and there’ll be a track record that’ll help both Kyle to decide if he wants to keep trying and Harlan to decide if he wants to renew. Whitt’s W-L récord was 28-35 in the PAC going into 2018. What will it be at the end of 2020? I’ve often argued that based on his history there’s no reason to think anything will change in Kyle’s overall approach — to offense, for example, and in annual results, including the November curse — but 2018 seemed like the year when I might be happily proven wrong. It still might be. I hope so. I just don’t buy the idea that Kyle should be given a pass when the same pattern shows up year after year.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  29. #1049
    I am cracking back at people who say he should be fired, and especially those who want him gone mid-season. That is just utterly moronic. We would be lucky to have a few Oregon State-level seasons if that happens.

    What happens in 2020 is a different story. I suspect Kyle will stick by his original plan and retire. He saw what the stress of coaching did to his dad's health and he will have plenty of reasons and resources to go enjoy time with the grandkids. And I fully expect we will have people clamouring to fire our new coach again after 2023.

    So now if the team goes 3-1 this month and wins a bowl game, what would that mean to those who want him gone? We have the most bipolar fanbase sometimes.

    On a side note, I will echo the sage words of the former poster SeaTacUte when I say the best thing that could happen to the Ute fanbase would be for SLC to get an NFL franchise. It is a good rallying point for the city/state, and also it would suck much of the more idiotic element out of the Utes fanbase at the same time. Win-Win.

  30. #1050
    Senior Member Scorcho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthwestUteFan View Post
    I am cracking back at people who say he should be fired, and especially those who want him gone mid-season. That is just utterly moronic. We would be lucky to have a few Oregon State-level seasons if that happens.

    What happens in 2020 is a different story. I suspect Kyle will stick by his original plan and retire. He saw what the stress of coaching did to his dad's health and he will have plenty of reasons and resources to go enjoy time with the grandkids. And I fully expect we will have people clamouring to fire our new coach again after 2023.

    So now if the team goes 3-1 this month and wins a bowl game, what would that mean to those who want him gone? We have the most bipolar fanbase sometimes.

    On a side note, I will echo the sage words of the former poster SeaTacUte when I say the best thing that could happen to the Ute fanbase would be for SLC to get an NFL franchise. It is a good rallying point for the city/state, and also it would suck much of the more idiotic element out of the Utes fanbase at the same time. Win-Win.


    last time I checked we were 6-3 and the South title/Rose Bowl are still achievable, but ..... there are hundred of season tickets available on the SECONDARY MARKET? Oh the Horror!

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