This is going to be a fun game..........
This is going to be a fun game..........
The only thing BYU has on Utah right now is Utah hasn't beaten them in the Marriott.
I think that changes this year. Utah is a terrible matchup for BYU, and the Utes are playing well.
We have not won in the Marriott Center since Chris Miles kicked Bogut and ran away.
This will be our first chance to see "JakPot" go up against a team with real size. Now granted, BYU's bigs are all limited and are either purely for offense (Nielson), or hard-playing, low skilled brutes (Worthington, Austin, Kaufusi) but they have a lot of beef over there.
Tyler Haws is Tyler Haws. I am interested to see if he has figured out how to play through it when teams are physical with him, as we inevitably will be.
Kyle Collinsworth is their best player and man is he good.
Chase Fischer is very much like Matt Carlino, but much less prone to stupid, boneheaded plays.
This BYU team can flat out score. But they have a lot of problems stopping people. If we defend and execute on offense, we will win.
I think the difference is how well this team rebounds. If they defend and hit the glass like they did against SDSU and Wichita State, BYU doesn't have a chance.Originally Posted by UtahsMrSports
Some nice good-natured smack talk from Larry here:
http://fox13now.com/2014/12/04/watch...k-on-byu-team/
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
From what I've seen the biggest difference between Fischer and Carlino was that Carlino could score on anyone at any time, but he was just as likely to be ice cold against a lousy WCC team. Fischer looks like someone who is more consistent, but struggles against good, athletic competition. In other words, you could never predict when Carlino would go off. Fischer seems like he's a good bet to struggle against good teams. This is also supported by his dominance in high school and struggles at Wake Forest (along those lines, I could never understand why BYU fans were so excited to get someone who couldn't get off the bench for a bad Wake team and actually had his minutes drop significantly as a sophomore). I think in those instances Winder is a much better option for them.
I think the key to this game is how tightly the referees call the game. If they call it tightly, which I think they will, BYU will have the advantage.
Good point Uteopia. I spoke with a guy who refs Pac-12, MWC and WAC games this afternoon. He attended last nights game. Because he lives in SLC he is rarely assigned Utah games (never at home). He sat with an official who was there to evaluate the officiating team. First of all, he told me the refs definitely allowed the teams to go at each other a bit but he (and his colleague) thought it was one of the best officiated games they'd seen in a long time.
I do think that a tightly called game benefits BYU but the Cougs look to be able to play more physical this year. I like their team. I was impressed with a lot of what they did against SDSU in Maui. After playing a pretty intelligent and patient game they really jacked some shots late and in the overtimes that hurt them. I do think that they shoot it better than us - maybe even a lot better. I also expect them to zone us a lot - daring us to hit outside shots. If we hit them we win.
Your first paragraph speaks volumes. The awful back court call alone should negate any talk of big being well officiated.
What a bunch of clowns. I can't imagine him saying it was a poorly officiated game no matter what calls are made.
I love how refs, fans, and announcers will say "oh, they're letting them play tonight!" Lack of consistency is such an accepted fact that we don't even think about it. Does that happen in other sports? "Oh, I see they're letting facemasks go tonight." "Let's use the first few innings to gauge how fly balls are going to be called."
But in basketball we show up to each game wondering whether or not hacking someone across the arm on a full court press trap is going to count as a foul. We have to wonder whether fouls will be called on big men or only on guards.
As for the BYU game, if the officials don't feel like calling fouls in that game, I don't see how it helps Utah any more than BYU. Sure, we want to rough up Haws. On the other hand, every time I see him, Kyle Collinsworth gets multiple steals by raking his opponent across the arm. He doesn't want fouls to be called any more than our defenders do. If they call a tight game, we at least have the benefit of having more depth.
This is how I'd sum it up, too. We'll do the other stuff (defend well, rebound, etc.). If we hit our open shots at a decent clip (including free throws) we'll win. If we don't we'll lose.
I'm really bummed we'll not have Loveridge for this game. He was nails in last year's game and one of the few guys on the roster who "gets" this rivalry. Who will have skin in the game for this one? Chapman? D. Wright (who has one rivalry game - at the Hunty - to draw from)? Are Bach and Tucker the last two guys to have played in Provo? Dallon might be huge in this game.
Is it just me or have zone defenses been stereotyped too broadly as giving up many open 3's? There are more 3 point shooters than ever and more offenses that rely on 3 pointer shots that ever, but for some reason more and more teams use a zone defense.
I wish a zone automatically meant open 3's for us because we have a bunch of guys who make that shot. Unfortunately, we seem to struggle to create open shots against many zone defenses.
We get really bogged against zones because they take away the pick and roll, which is our best play. We end up standing a lot, which is what zones want you to do. We need to be looking for Poeltl on alley-oops against BYU's zone.
Not as much as people would like to think. If anything, they give up more offensive rebounds than open 3 point shots. Watch Syracuse and Utah State for a perspective on well played zones.
I think this is why we've been playing a lot more motion offense this year. It gives athletic players more ability to create against different defenses.
Syracuse is a special case. It has athletes that make a zone unique. BYU is not a defensive minded team. I'm not worried.
One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.
--Albert Einstein
The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.
--Richard Dawkins
Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.
--Philo
Truly. We'll get our points on Wednesday. The real test will be slowing down their guard line.
I don't know how much the crowd hurt us in San Diego, but Provo can get loud too. It would be very nice if we could hit some jumpers early and settle in.
Remember the rumor from a few years back that Coach Rose was thinking about moving up to the U but his brother-in-law Elder Holland talked him out of it? I wonder if family get togethers are awkward now.
We aren't talking about how well teams execute a zone defense. Any team with great athletes can play good defense. Look at San Diego State. They could play a great zone D as well if they wanted to.
My point was that the talk about a zone leaving shooters open is not true at the Div 1 level. Defenders are just too tall, long, and athletic and can get out on shooters too easily. If someone is open it is because the defense failed to communicate or didn't recognize a rotation not because of some inherent flaw in zone defenses.
I like Dave Rose, he might be the most liked BYU Basketball Coach (outside of the bubble) of all time. Seems like just a normal guy, without the sanctimoniousness of so many personalities down there. Having said that maybe Elder Holland did us a favor? I am relieved he isn’t Utah’s coach. He appears to completely ignore the defensive side of the ball. You can get away with that to some degree, but late in the game when your legs are tired and shots aren’t dropping it will kill you in big games.
Anyone remember this Rick Majerus quote about playing UCLA ... "They won't play us, so what can I do? There's three cheerleaders out there I'd like to take home tonight. All three would tell me no. They won't go. UCLA won't play."
It would seem that karma got the timeline messed up on this one.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
My iq drops each time someone posts alink to cougar board.....
Man, I love Rick Majerus quotes. So many of them.I like Dave Rose, he might be the most liked BYU Basketball Coach (outside of the bubble) of all time. Seems like just a normal guy, without the sanctimoniousness of so many personalities down there. Having said that maybe Elder Holland did us a favor? I am relieved he isn’t Utah’s coach. He appears to completely ignore the defensive side of the ball. You can get away with that to some degree, but late in the game when your legs are tired and shots aren’t dropping it will kill you in big games.
Anyone remember this Rick Majerus quote about playing UCLA ... "They won't play us, so what can I do? There's three cheerleaders out there I'd like to take home tonight. All three would tell me no. They won't go. UCLA won't play."
We're a team that's about making five slow pennies instead of one quick nickel. BYU fits the latter. What worries me most about this game is that in a 40 minute game, one big burst can bury you.
To give you an idea of what I'm talking about, over 8:47 of action at the start and finish of the game, WSU outscored us 24-3, using bursts of 10-0 and 14-3. For the 31:13 in between, Utah outscored WSU 57-36, and our biggest run of unanswered points was 8.
But here's what makes me feel good about Wednesday: BYU has never scored more than 64 points against us under Larry. It's averaging 62 PPG in three games against Utah/Larry. The last three years, BYU has averaged 84, 77 and 78 PPG. And last year, the only team that gave up fewer than the 64 points Utah did was Wichita State, which gave up 62 to BYU, albeit on a neutral floor. So we're clearly doing what we want defensively against BYU. I don't expect that to change, I expect to be favored by 3 and win by 7 or 8, provided Poeltl isn't in the game late to brick FTs that salt the game away.
OK -- mods, please move this into the game thread that's already been started. Thanks!
I accidentally posted this in the wrong thread, so I'm putting it here where it belongs.
Wednesday's game worries me as much as the Colorado State game worries me. Quite a bit and for the same reasons. BYU is a good offensive team. One that our defense will struggle to contain. We'll have to win with offense. Delon needs to get close to 20, hopefully Poeltl is in the same vicinity. I'd love for Taylor to have another strong game. I think this is going to be one of those weird games where we need to get to 75 points to win but if we end up in the 90's, I think we actually lose since it means we're in a shoot out and I think that works in their favor more than ours.
BYU will be sky-high for this game in light of last year's beatdown, our high ranking, and their being on their home floor in front of a rabid, loud crowd. I'm ready for anything.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
Adding to what SoCalPat wrote, in the 3 years of Larry K vs BYU here are their shooting stats:
11-12: 19-49
12-13: 19-61
13-14: 21-64
For an overall average of 34%.
Haws in his last two games vs the Utes:
12-13: 3-11
13-14: 2-10
For a total of 5-21... just under 24%
I think the coaching staff has BYU's offense figured out. The key will be getting Taylor/Tucker/Ogbe to hit from outside. If they do, we win comfortably. If they zone us like I expect them to, Poeltl and our bigs could/should have a field day on the offensive glass. We need to make them pay for playing zone.
I will be there. Last time I was in the Marriott Center I got spit on and swore I'd never go back (which by the way, getting spit on has to be the single most instantaneously infuriating thing that has ever happened to me in my life). I am taking my son with me, we've been invited along by a vendor of ours who is providing the tickets. I'm pretty nervous to bring my son along because of past poor experiences, but holding out hope that people will be fairly decent.
That being said, if we come out of there with a win (and I think we will, although it likely won't be the 20pt blowout we saw last year) it will be epic.
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