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Thread: 2015-16 Utah basketball team

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by 311ute View Post
    Alright... I was bored so I looked it up. I used KenPom.com (since I believe it's the most accurate and it was easy using his site to look up). Here are the past 5 years:

    Pac-12 #3(bold) MWC #2 (Italics):
    2015: 33, 42
    2014: 29, 31
    2013: 43, 30
    2012: 52, 46
    2011: 23, 13


    Sancho wins. It's been close every year, but the top of the MWC has been strong. However (like Sancho said), the Pac-12 is clearly superior in every way. Top to bottom, especially talent wise, it's not close.


    Here's a look at the combined NCAA Tournament records the past 5 years:


    Pac-12: 28-21
    MWC: 10-17


    NBA Draft Picks per conference over the last 5 years:


    Pac-12: 29
    MWC: 9


    Current NBA players:


    Pac-12: 60
    MWC: 15
    If you took away one-and-dones (players the MWC has no chance of getting), those NBA numbers wouldn't look so bad for the MWC. If one-and-dones stayed 3 years, the regular season numbers would benefit the Pac-12 more.

    I would say the Pac-10 and WAC were pretty evenly matched in the first 10-15 years post-Wooden, and you can make arguments that the WAC was superior. Where the Pac-12 really gained separation was the emergence of Arizona as a national power, in the mid-late 1980s. In fact, it wasn't until 1982 before a non-UCLA team made a regional final (Oregon State, 1982). Counting Wooden's last year, three WAC teams made it to the Elite 8 (ASU, Arizona, BYU). 1983 Utah was probably the weakest WAC rep in this era, yet it beat UCLA en route to the Sweet 16, and the Pac-12 that year was only a two-bid league.

    UCLA notwithstanding, the idea of the Pac-12 as a powerhouse basketball conference is a relatively recent phenomenon, and it has never had the year-in, year-out strength of the ACC, Big 10 or old Big East.

  2. #62
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    Expectations for 2015-16 season (Am I the only one who thinks this thread should be labeled "2016 Team"?)

    Top 5 finish in the Pac-12.

    NCAA bid.

    One win in the tournament.

    The league gets tougher next year.

    Arizona and UCLA will have talent to replace NBA guys.

    Oregon returns everyone of note save Joseph Young. Almost a mirror image of Utah in terms of returnees, but Oregon has size, we have shooters.

    Cal returns everyone but Kravish.

    OSU was very improved in Tinkle's first year and will clear a lot of dead wood for a dynamite incoming class (three 4-star players per ESPN)

    ASU loses some guys, returns some guys and will have energy from a new celebrity HC in Hurley.

    Wazzu loses Lacy and another part-time starter, but their incoming recruits will likely not make an immediate impact.

    I don't expect much out of USC, Stanford or Washington, whose coaches each occupy the hottest seats in the league.

    Colorado is a huge wild card. Returns everyone of note but Booker. Can't be this injury-plagued two years in a row. And Tad Boyle is a top 4 coach in this league.

    My way-too-early preseason order of finish:

    1. Arizona
    2. Oregon
    3. UCLA
    4. Utah
    5. Cal
    6. Oregon State
    7. Colorado
    8. Arizona State
    9. Washington State
    10. USC
    11. Stanford
    12. Washington

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    Expectations for 2015-16 season (Am I the only one who thinks this thread should be labeled "2016 Team"?)

    1. Arizona
    2. Oregon
    3. UCLA
    4. Utah
    5. Cal
    6. Oregon State
    7. Colorado
    8. Arizona State
    9. Washington State
    10. USC
    11. Stanford
    12. Washington
    How many bids do we expect from the conference? I would say a minimum of 4, max of 6. I think Arizona, Utah, UCLA, Oregon are almost sure things. Cal and Oregon St possible.

    Agree on your points about the league being better next year. But I'm more bullish on the Utes than you are. I think we'll be (slightly) better than we were this year. I expect a top-15 ranking most if not all year long, and a top 4 seed come tournament time. With 3 seniors who will anchor us, a top-10 pick, talented young guys (I expect big jumps from Wright, Kuzma, Chapman), plus our incoming class (Bealer, Mawien), I think all the pieces are there for a huge year.

    Here's my way-too-early conference rankings:

    1-Arizona
    2-Utah
    3-Oregon
    4-UCLA
    5-Cal
    6-Oregon St
    7-Colorado
    8-ASU
    9-Stanford
    10-USC
    11-Washington
    12-Wazzu


    Next year could be our best shot at a conference championship. Arizona will take a pretty big step back from what they've been the last two years, plus we don't play them in Tucson.

  4. #64
    I actually wasn't trying to compare the PAC#3 to the MWC#2. I think a starting five of Taylor, Tucker, Loveridge, Reyes, Olsen could finish second in the MWC because there is a lot of skill among that five, and the lack of elite size/athleticism wouldn't prevent them from succeeding in the MWC. Likewise, a starting 5 of Wright, Bealer, Kuzma, Champman, and Poeltl could hold up athletically in the PAC but wouldn't have the skill to be better than #3. We have some guys who are very skilled, and some guys with great athleticism/size, but we don't have enough guys with both size/athleticism and skill. Basically, we have a ton of depth, but we don't have a combination of any five guys that are going to beat the best five guys at the top of the conference. Unless, some of our athletic guys really progress from a skills perspective.

  5. #65
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    2015-16 Utah team

    I don't think we know enough about how much Poeltl will progress, how much Bealer will contribute, and which (if any) of the freshmen will step up to start putting us in the middle of the conference for next year. Norlander of CBS Sports (I think) says we will be a top 20 team, in the Dance, and 2nd or 3rd in the PAC-12. I hope he's right.


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  6. #66
    We have gotten better every year under Coach K.

    The players have all improved every off season.

    Coach K has been a wizard with big men.

    We have a lot of big men that are more talented than we've ever had in Poeltl, Chapman, Kuzma.

    Coach K took his second choice, a JC kid, and helped him become a top player in the country.

    Given everything we've seen so far, why would anyone think we'd take a big step back?

    We should be a top 15 team next year. We might have one of the FIVE best players in the country. We have a coach that has done wonders developing big men.

    Why would we suddenly reverse trend and suck next year? If we were expecting that, why would we be paying Coach K so much?

    This year will be awesome. We are going to explode. We will miss Delon, but we will be a better team with improvements from Chapman, Kuzma, Poeltl, Taylor, Wright, Bealer.

    Also, why is it Coach K can coach up Delon, but we have no faith in him to coach up Wright, Bealer, etc?

    I expect Utah to be #1 or #2 this year. Anything less would be a disappointment. Coach K is about to get paid. Coaches that make his salary don't finish third.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Utah View Post
    We have gotten better every year under Coach K.

    The players have all improved every off season.

    Coach K has been a wizard with big men.

    We have a lot of big men that are more talented than we've ever had in Poeltl, Chapman, Kuzma.

    Coach K took his second choice, a JC kid, and helped him become a top player in the country.

    Given everything we've seen so far, why would anyone think we'd take a big step back?

    We should be a top 15 team next year. We might have one of the FIVE best players in the country. We have a coach that has done wonders developing big men.

    Why would we suddenly reverse trend and suck next year? If we were expecting that, why would we be paying Coach K so much?

    This year will be awesome. We are going to explode. We will miss Delon, but we will be a better team with improvements from Chapman, Kuzma, Poeltl, Taylor, Wright, Bealer.

    Also, why is it Coach K can coach up Delon, but we have no faith in him to coach up Wright, Bealer, etc?

    I expect Utah to be #1 or #2 this year. Anything less would be a disappointment. Coach K is about to get paid. Coaches that make his salary don't finish third.
    Delon was a special college basketball player, and that was evident when he first stepped on the floor against St. Martins in a nearly empty Huntsman arena. I remember early in that game just turning and saying "Did you see that?" rather than cheering right away. The coaching prowess of LK showed in how he built a team around Delon rather than how he built/developed Delon. Poeltl may wind up being a top ten draftee next year, but I don't see him being the caliber of ball player that D Wright was at the college level, at least not as a sophomore. The main question is, with an established team and no open roster spots, can LK fashion a team around Poeltl in the same way he sort of dismantled and rebuilt the team around Wright.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrj84105 View Post
    Delon was a special college basketball player, and that was evident when he first stepped on the floor against St. Martins in a nearly empty Huntsman arena. I remember early in that game just turning and saying "Did you see that?" rather than cheering right away. The coaching prowess of LK showed in how he built a team around Delon rather than how he built/developed Delon. Poeltl may wind up being a top ten draftee next year, but I don't see him being the caliber of ball player that D Wright was at the college level, at least not as a sophomore. The main question is, with an established team and no open roster spots, can LK fashion a team around Poeltl in the same way he sort of dismantled and rebuilt the team around Wright.
    Delon was as savvy as they come, but he shines more as a facilitator. Poeltl should be able to just ram the ball down your throat by the time K is done with him.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by jrj84105 View Post
    Delon was a special college basketball player, and that was evident when he first stepped on the floor against St. Martins in a nearly empty Huntsman arena. I remember early in that game just turning and saying "Did you see that?" rather than cheering right away. The coaching prowess of LK showed in how he built a team around Delon rather than how he built/developed Delon. Poeltl may wind up being a top ten draftee next year, but I don't see him being the caliber of ball player that D Wright was at the college level, at least not as a sophomore. The main question is, with an established team and no open roster spots, can LK fashion a team around Poeltl in the same way he sort of dismantled and rebuilt the team around Wright.
    Delon was special. I think we forget/don't give enough credit to Larry for developing kids. Larry took Washburn from a tall guy who played basketball to a professional basketball player who has the potential to make over a million dollars playing basketball.

    Look what he did with Bachynski. He was a guy no one wanted and ended up being a very key player in a sweet 16 team.

    I think Poeltl takes a huge jump. As much as Washburn and Bachynski improved, they were never as good as Poeltl is now. And Poeltl is nowhere near his ceiling.

    I also think Chapman takes a big jump forward. Throw Kuzma in there as well. We could have a very, very athletic front court with Poeltl, Kuzma and Chapman. The potential is there.

    Losing Delon is big, but we still have a ton of talent on this team.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Utah View Post
    Delon was special. I think we forget/don't give enough credit to Larry for developing kids. Larry took Washburn from a tall guy who played basketball to a professional basketball player who has the potential to make over a million dollars playing basketball.

    Look what he did with Bachynski. He was a guy no one wanted and ended up being a very key player in a sweet 16 team.

    I think Poeltl takes a huge jump. As much as Washburn and Bachynski improved, they were never as good as Poeltl is now. And Poeltl is nowhere near his ceiling.

    I also think Chapman takes a big jump forward. Throw Kuzma in there as well. We could have a very, very athletic front court with Poeltl, Kuzma and Chapman.
    If Chapman, Poeltl, and Kuzma ALL improve at the rate of Washburn and Bachinski, we will win the PAC and play in the final four.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Utah View Post
    I expect Utah to be #1 or #2 this year. Anything less would be a disappointment. Coach K is about to get paid. Coaches that make his salary don't finish third.
    Some of your points in that post are good, others are debatable. This one makes no sense. There are three coaches in the league that all make as much or more than Larry. And Arizona, UCLA and Oregon will all likely be picked ahead of Utah in the preseason polls. By that line of reasoning, we should expect to finish fourth, maybe tied for third. Hell, we could finish third and be ranked in the top 15 and be a 4 seed or better in the Dance. If I gotta finish third in the league to get that, who cares?
    Last edited by SoCalPat; 04-24-2015 at 08:12 AM.

  12. #72
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    Someone's gotta justify this Kuzma hype/hope. He doesn't belong in the same discussion as any of our underclassmen. For a guy that was in the program for a year, Chapman and IWright blew past him in the rotation. Tucker started the year hurt, and Loveridge and Ogbe missed significant time due to injury and he could never make a case to take any of those players' minutes. He looked best against either the dregs of D-1 or in epic blowouts against other team's scrubs (see Colorado, USC, Arizona State).

    Probably his best game came against BYU, where he had 7 points in 9 minutes, but also had three fouls. Also had three fouls in six minutes at Arizona. Three fouls in five minutes vs. Cal. That 3 he hit against Georgetown? It was literally his first pressure 3 of the season. I'm not by any means ready to throw the towel on his career at Utah, but Kuzma underwhelmed spectacularly this year.

    Bealer and Mawein play different positions and will get minutes immediately at the 2 and 4, respectively. Kuzma ain't surpassing Chapman or Loveridge at the 3. Kuzma might be our 11th man in the rotation next year, which would be no different than where he was this year. Am I wrong for thinking he's too skinny to play the 4, has a logjam ahead of him at the 3 and can't handle the rock well enough to play the 2?

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    Someone's gotta justify this Kuzma hype/hope. He doesn't belong in the same discussion as any of our underclassmen. For a guy that was in the program for a year, Chapman and IWright blew past him in the rotation. Tucker started the year hurt, and Loveridge and Ogbe missed significant time due to injury and he could never make a case to take any of those players' minutes. He looked best against either the dregs of D-1 or in epic blowouts against other team's scrubs (see Colorado, USC, Arizona State).

    Probably his best game came against BYU, where he had 7 points in 9 minutes, but also had three fouls. Also had three fouls in six minutes at Arizona. Three fouls in five minutes vs. Cal. That 3 he hit against Georgetown? It was literally his first pressure 3 of the season. I'm not by any means ready to throw the towel on his career at Utah, but Kuzma underwhelmed spectacularly this year.

    Bealer and Mawein play different positions and will get minutes immediately at the 2 and 4, respectively. Kuzma ain't surpassing Chapman or Loveridge at the 3. Kuzma might be our 11th man in the rotation next year, which would be no different than where he was this year. Am I wrong for thinking he's too skinny to play the 4, has a logjam ahead of him at the 3 and can't handle the rock well enough to play the 2?
    Just one minor quibble. He was at the U and could do individual workouts but could not participate in practice etc

    Now is he at the point where he should be talked about as a major contributor? Not even close, but I'm not sure his year at the U really helped him much when it came to being game ready


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  14. #74
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    He's a phenomenal athlete, but Kooz needs to get his head on straight if he wants to see any playing time. He looks lost every time he steps onto the floor.

    I'm really getting tired of these guys we "steal" from Izzo.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    I don't think he's as lost as all that. He put himself into position to grab boards, and he routinely ended up with open shots (yes, easier to do when the defense is not worried about you).

    The biggest problem is that he's not a shooter but wants to be. If he could shoot, he could start.

    The second biggest problem is defense, which should be easier to learn than shooting.
    This is right. From a numbers perspective, he was more than respectable. If you averaged out his numbers, at a 25 minute per game clip he would have averaged over 10 points, 5.5 boards, and 2 assists (admittedly with 2 TOs) while shooting 55.6% from 2 and 32.4% from 3. This was as an athletic 6'9" freshman. He obviously has stuff to improve on, especially defensively, but the athletic tools are there and he was already a pretty solid player as a freshman. I think he has a bright future as a Ute.

  16. #76
    I think Kuzma will be fine as long as he's patient with himself. Not all kids are one-and-dones (to put it mildly). Most guys have to *gasp* come in, grow, learn, and develop year after year, and by the time they're seniors they're half decent players. We all want every recruit to be the next stud, and frankly, we overachieved last year with having three of our four freshmen (including Kooz) come in and decently contribute - one of whom could have bailed for the NBA. That's a PHENOMENAL class. But perhaps Kyle will be more like Tucker - a kid who has to work his butt off, but if he does gets a little better and effective each year.

    He'll be fine as long as he doesn't give up and bail for seemingly "greener pastures."

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scratch View Post
    This is right. From a numbers perspective, he was more than respectable. If you averaged out his numbers, at a 25 minute per game clip he would have averaged over 10 points, 5.5 boards, and 2 assists (admittedly with 2 TOs) while shooting 55.6% from 2 and 32.4% from 3. This was as an athletic 6'9" freshman. He obviously has stuff to improve on, especially defensively, but the athletic tools are there and he was already a pretty solid player as a freshman. I think he has a bright future as a Ute.
    Those numbers would rival and/or surpass what Chapman would do over 25 MPG, so right away this assessment has major holes in it. I'm a big numbers guy, but 72 of Kuzma's 252 minutes (28 percent) and 42 of his 103 points (41 percent) came in four games of our 35 games (11 percent) -- UC Riverside, UT Pan-American, North Dakota and Alabama State. All four were at home. Average RPI of the four schools was 283. Kuzma's production was respectable only if you put equal weight on every opponent.
    Last edited by SoCalPat; 04-24-2015 at 10:57 AM.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by FountainOfUte View Post
    I think Kuzma will be fine as long as he's patient with himself. Not all kids are one-and-dones (to put it mildly). Most guys have to *gasp* come in, grow, learn, and develop year after year, and by the time they're seniors they're half decent players. We all want every recruit to be the next stud, and frankly, we overachieved last year with having three of our four freshmen (including Kooz) come in and decently contribute - one of whom could have bailed for the NBA. That's a PHENOMENAL class. But perhaps Kyle will be more like Tucker - a kid who has to work his butt off, but if he does gets a little better and effective each year.

    He'll be fine as long as he doesn't give up and bail for seemingly "greener pastures."
    This is true. The hype surrounding kids nowadays is unrealistic, and I think it plays a role in how a player views his worth to a program and/or his own ability. I don't think I swing completely in the opposite direction in trying to minimize it, but I often fail to consider that college hoops is a 4/5 year journey for a large number of players. That said, I adopt a jaded approach to player loyalty to a program -- they want to play and they want to contribute. If that comes at a lesser program, so be it. Kuzma very well could be a significant contributor as a junior or senior; my biggest concern for him is that there's nothing to suggest it will come next year.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Nothing terribly unreasonable, although I'd have Washington and Stanford lower, Washington State higher.

  20. #80
    Do you think WSU is due for a breakout year this year? They skip us, so they will avoid one easy win. :banghead:

  21. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthwestUteFan View Post
    Do you think WSU is due for a breakout year this year? They skip us, so they will avoid one easy win. :banghead:
    ?? We beat Wazzu both times last year....

    They don't skip us next year. We play the Arizona schools once (in SLC), and we don't travel to the SoCal schools.

  22. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by 311ute View Post
    ?? We beat Wazzu both times last year....

    They don't skip us next year. We play the Arizona schools once (in SLC), and we don't travel to the SoCal schools.
    Oops I thought this was the football forum. It is hard to tell on Tapatalk...

  23. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by 311ute View Post
    ?? We beat Wazzu both times last year....

    They don't skip us next year. We play the Arizona schools once (in SLC), and we don't travel to the SoCal schools.
    Can that be right? How can we avoid a trip to both Arizona and SoCal?

  24. #84
    Maybe coach K will kick the tires on Rasheed Sulaimon
    “It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.”

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  25. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    Can that be right? How can we avoid a trip to both Arizona and SoCal?
    Sorry, I meant we don't host the SoCal schools.

  26. #86
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    Officially announced that Jeremy Olsen will be forced to retire due to a medical issue.


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  27. #87
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    And the Utes add 6'4" JC transfer Lorenzo Bonam. Averaged about 16 points 7 boards and 3.5 assists at Gillette college. Shot 60% from the field, 31% behind the arc and 75% from the line. 2.1 A/TO ratio and 91 steals

    Originally committed to Southern Miss but asked for his release after the NCAA started investigating their program.




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  28. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    And the Utes add 6'4" JC transfer Lorenzo Bonam. Averaged about 16 points 7 boards and 3.5 assists at Gillette college. Shot 60% from the field, 31% behind the arc and 75% from the line. 2.1 A/TO ratio and 91 steals

    Originally committed to Southern Miss but asked for his release after the NCAA started investigating their program.




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    This commitment and the glaring hole at center suggests to me that there will be one or more current players leaving or one returned missionary not returning.

  29. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    This commitment and the glaring hole at center suggests to me that there will be one or more current players leaving or one returned missionary not returning.
    Otherwise it is hard to imagine the rationale for recruiting another guard, esp. a jc guard. Even is someone leaves, why do we think we need another one? B/c Wright and Taylor would be a small backcourt?

  30. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    This commitment and the glaring hole at center suggests to me that there will be one or more current players leaving or one returned missionary not returning.
    Paging utebiquitous....

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