I don’t count the JUCO kids when talking about transfers of this nature. That leaves just Bibbins, Barefield, Collette and Bachinsky — and probably bolsters your argument at the same time.Originally Posted by Scorcho
I don’t count the JUCO kids when talking about transfers of this nature. That leaves just Bibbins, Barefield, Collette and Bachinsky — and probably bolsters your argument at the same time.
I think the problem of letting a guy leave after 2 years without penalty is that a lot of these guys know each other and that would start to create dream team building at the detriment of the rest of the schools. Go out, prove yourself good, other teams start drooling over you and then it is a "Hey come play with me and we'll get an NCAA championship together."
The transfer rules that limit movement don't bother me. Universities spend significant amount of money and time recruiting kids and then supporting them while they are here, and then to have essentially a 24/7/365 recruiting requirement, for even your own players, would be a nightmare. This transfer portal thing is stupid too, and what a statement you make to your coaches and team when you put yourself in there and then DON'T transfer?
Regardless of it all, what we DO know for sure is that Jayce is not happy to stick out his last year at the U, despite the fact that he'll likely get limited to no interest from a program of similar caliber. That's a big matzo ball sitting out there.
The number 1 rule always needs to be "don't kill the golden goose." If free agency is bad for college sports, then we should not allow it. College football and basketball are glorious things that have been great for 100 years. Why mess with the recipe?
Universities make millions off of athletes, much more than they spend on them. Plus coaches can flush out turds without any penalty to the coach, (maybe too many & they lose their jobs), but the turd has to sit out for a year.
Change will never happen as there is too much money being made in the current system, & not any money to be made off a lawsuit for non-star players, but I got to know Chris Hart & it bugged me that he had no options but to work his butt off & try different positions, when his real problem he was a football tweener.
Interesting to see where Jayce goes—-I agree he will probably have to take a step down, but maybe he wants to go somewhere where he will be the star.
I think you have to count the JUCO kids in this equation because it was the transfers out that made room for the JUCO kids.
There is no respectable level in which Jayce is a star. He is a good defender and a very good rebounder. He could be a great rebounder in a lesser league, I suppose, but he won't score a lot at any level.
I don't see what's wrong with Hart staying as a tweener, getting a free education, getting to play a sport he loves. I think a free transfer should be allowed to a lower division. Let him go to Weber if playing time is the issue.
Hart did not get to play—-special teams is not really playing.
So he got to practice the sport he loves. I agree he should have been allowed to go to a lower division like Weber without a penalty.
Same with Pop in BB.
Jayce is an interesting use case for Larry's tenure at Utah. On the one hand, he's a kid who came in with a lot of promise and has had flashes of being a really good player. He's certainly improved in his 4 years at Utah...I don't think anyone can deny that. However, he also has been a guy that the fans have really piled on at times. Had he transferred after last season, would it have been celebrated? I suspect for some fans it would've been. Now those same fans that have been on his ass for several years are citing him as a reason to fire Larry. Hard to reconcile that one.
As for firing Larry. Okay, fine, so we fire Larry and we pay all 12.75 million of his buyout. If you're going to do that, you'd better be damn sure that you've got a guy lined up that can come in. The last several coaching searches have been flat out embarrassing for the school...do we really need to see Randy Bennett turn us down again? I've heard folks say that 3.5 million goes a long ways. Sure, but there's no chance that if the school is paying Larry that, that they are going to get right back in the business of paying top 10-15 money for their basketball coach.
So that leaves us with the question of who are you going to get? If you wanted a Gregg Marshall, you're looking at giving him the same money as Larry (which he already makes) or slightly more. You have some local folks (Pope, Craig Smith, Alex Jensen)...does that generate excitement? I have no idea. I think Alex would certainly appeal to the older sentimental crowd.
Here's my guy - Porter Moser, head coach of Loyola-Chicago. A Majerus guy, has head coaching experience, and currently (I believe) only making 500k. You could probably give him 2 million a year and he would come to Utah in a heartbeat.
“It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.”
Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.
UCLA wouldn’t pay $8M for Dixon’s buyout to get him as their coach.
Utah is not paying Larry $12M+ to leave. And not $6M after next year, not with the push on donors to fund the FB expansion.
You could probably give him 400,000 and he would come in a heartbeat. Loyola had its moment, but that ain't happening again, and Moser won't have a long window to cash in.
I have no idea who Utah should have as our basketball coach. None of the names you mentioned are a sure thing except Gregg Marshall, and I would be beyond shocked if we could land a fish that big.
On Jayce: Utah Twitter is the worst. Everything I saw about him there for 2 years was about how much of a failure he is. There's no way our vocal Tweeters are good for Utah athletics. I don't know if this is a universal problem all schools have or if we are particularly bad.
If UCLA people had been excited about Dixon, the buyout would have happened. If Utah people get excited about firing Larry, the $12 million will happen.
After our last Sweet 16 (Poeltl's second year) we thought Utah basketball was back, and they Larry was leading the renaissance. Why have the wheels come off (or at least become wobbly)?
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
Well went to the tournament the next year and then Larry got cancer. Perhaps that affected him more than we think.
"Be a philosopher. A man can compromise to gain a point. It has become apparent that a man can, within limits, follow his inclinations within the arms of the Church if he does so discreetly." - The Walking Drum
"And here’s what life comes down to—not how many years you live, but how many of those years are filled with bullshit that doesn’t amount to anything to satisfy the requirements of some dickhead you’ll never get the pleasure of punching in the face." – Adam Carolla
Then the excitement is not there & I don’t think there are many BB people who follow the Utes who will ever hit the excitement level.
But I hope you are right & I am wrong.
You haven’t read the contract. So you’re just being a windbag.
Well, we've been a football school now for a long time.
Retaining an underperforming coach would send a clear message that basketball is no longer a priority at Utah. I don't think Larry is at that level though. If we fired him, the national media would think we're nuts. He's finished top 4 in the conference for how many years in a row? Our recruiting numbers are better than they've ever been. People generally believe he gets more out of less than anyone else in the Pac-12. Everything looks up except the lack of tournament appearances and this annoying transfer situation. But the lack of tournament appearances is a huge deal.
I'm really bummed about Jayce, but I'm still where I was before. Just see what the team looks like this year. See if these good recruiting numbers are going to pay off. Unless we can get Gregg Marshall, then I'd fire Larry yesterday.
Delon Wright was a JUCO. The JUCOs don’t count. And I’d rather have a program built on four year guys unless they go to the NBA, like the successful ones.
If faux Coach K wins, if we go to the NCAA playoffs and make a mark, win a conference title, beat ranked teams, gets ranked for a stretch, etc, I’m happy to give him the credit. On the other hand, some here, including Scorcho, Mr. Sports, and Old Standing, will defend these coaches come what may, even if it means trashing the insitution and its history. What they are doing is defending their buddies, or coaches who have given them access to the institution. And they have no credibility.
Let’s be clear about one thing. The only reason Utah hired faux K is to win, go to NCAA playoffs, etc. That’s why faux K is one of the highest paid coaches in the country. There are a lot of cheaper hires if we want to develop fine young men, and it’s not even clear to me that faux K is doing that.
So excuses about why he’s failing or promises about how things might improve that aren’t supported by the scientific method don’t cut ice with me. He’s been hired to get us into the NCAA tourney, get us ranked, etc. and if it’s happening, that’s all I need to see.
All of the JUCOs came in traditional signing periods, and none were direct replacements for grad transfers. To label Delon's arrival and background in the same category as Justin Bibbins', for example, is absurd.
Dude, none of us has any credibility. If we did, we'd be someplace else. They're just posting thoughts like you are, but they have the dignity to avoid insults.
I agree with your sentiment and coaches are hired to win games and go to tournaments. But I find it laughable that anyone who isn't lock-step with you on what to do about Krystkowiak is somehow a patsy for the coach who is being manipulated by access.
I have zero access to the program and my thinking with Krystkowiak in the past is that the shortest route to winning is likely through him so we should give him some room to do his thing. It now appears that isn't the case, but that would explain my loyalty of sorts to him. But unless you get a blue-chip hire or a hidden gem of a coach (and I'm not saying we won't, but UCLA has proven it is harder than it appears and they have all the advantages) there WILL be more pain ahead.
I'll also add that i have no idea if Harlan is better at hiring a coach than Hill or worse, we just don't know, and so there is a factor involved in that too. So another factor of my 'loyalty' to Krystkowiak is influenced by that too.
Right now, with all we can see, like I said, I think the writing is on the wall for K. But these attacks on people who don't agree with you is ridiculous.
If the program of the past 4 years is the best we can expect from LK, there really is no reason, other than money, not to let him go. I now live in San Diego most of the winter and did not buy season tickets this past year. I don't anticipate buying this year. I was only in SLC for 1 home game. It was not well attended. My guess is that just as with Mac, the butts in the seats will eventually determine LK's fate.
I hated to see Mac go but saw that it was clearly time to move on to move forward. I don't have the same good feelings about LK (I don't hate the guy - he seems like a good guy), but it is clear to me that it is time to move on to move forward. I don't know who we get. I like the idea of Alex Jensen. He certainly has the basketball IQ and hopefully could put together a staff that can recruit to Utah. Who knows, maybe he can get Donnie Daniels and Juddy back to Utah.
As for the transfer portal and its impact on college football and basketball, at some point there is a line where college athletics as we know them turns into the equivalent of the NBA G League and the most recent football league that just failed. Where that line is, I don't know. It is probably different for each of us. It has gotten there for me with college basketball nationally with the scandals and with the Utes with the lack of a cohesive program that I can get behind. I did not watch 1 NCAA tournament game for the first time ever. I think those pushing for more money, more freedom of movement, etc for college athletes, while good intentioned, may just end up eliminating college sports as we know them and with that the educational opportunities that come with them. I would hate to see that happen to accommodate the desires of the 1% who see the college athletic experience as just a necessary step to the pros.
Because the program has stagnated into one where it is in rebuilding mode every year. There is no continuity with players. For fans, we see a program that has stagnated and there is no reason to believe it will change with this staff. I had a coach tell me once after yelling at me pretty good. Don't worry about me yelling at you. Worry when I don't, because that will tell you that I don't think you can improve and I have given up on you.
I think most of the voices that once supported Utah basketball have stopped yelling. They have certainly stopped going to games.
Uhh yeah, Matt Mooney transferred from Air Force to South Dakota to Texas Tech. Owens started at Tenn, went to St Johns and ended up at Texas Tech. Braxton Key started at Bama and went to Virginia. So much for that line of thinking.
Uhh, yeah, Bibbins was our best players last year. he had a phenomenal year.
FWIW, Riley just said on his show that he has been unable to confirm the report/rumor.
“It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.”
Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.
See you’re not a pasty for the coach. You’re capable of criticizing him. The ones I listed are 100% cheerleaders all the time. Fine. However, the reason I call it out is when their excuses turn to trashing the University of Utah, like the Boylen shills’ refrain that he couldn’t win because the practice facility was inadequate. Here it’s now become that Utah doesn’t really have a distinguished tradition; Majerus was a fluke, and we should be satisfied with this program. Or, we’re stuck with him because of his buyout, as a last resort.
Your trolling is much like your critiques. Yawn.....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_O%27Clock_Charlie
All this posting in this thread about what we all know to be true: Larry has a one year window to get us NCAA tournament-bound.
Without Jayce, that will be a tough haul.
The D. News citing a USA Today reported in Dec of 2018 that the buyout is actually $15,750,000 so the Windbag was wrong.
My apologies.
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