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Thread: A Believer Thread

  1. #541
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    A Believer Thread

    Andrew Sullivan:

    America’s New Religions

    Which is to say, even today’s atheists are expressing an attenuated form of religion. Their denial of any God is as absolute as others’ faith in God, and entails just as much a set of values to live by — including, for some, daily rituals like meditation, a form of prayer.

    In his highly entertaining book, The Seven Types of Atheism, released in October in the U.S., philosopher John Gray puts it this way: “Religion is an attempt to find meaning in events, not a theory that tries to explain the universe.” It exists because we humans are the only species, so far as we can know, who have evolved to know explicitly that, one day in the future, we will die. And this existential fact requires some way of reconciling us to it while we are alive.

    This is why science cannot replace it. Science does not tell you how to live, or what life is about; it can provide hypotheses and tentative explanations, but no ultimate meaning

    Ditto history. My late friend, Christopher Hitchens, with a certain glee, gave me a copy of his book, God Is Not Great, a fabulous grab bag of religious insanity and evil over time, which I enjoyed immensely and agreed with almost entirely. But the fact that religion has been so often abused for nefarious purposes — from burning people at the stake to enabling child rape to crashing airplanes into towers — does not resolve the question of whether the meaning of that religion is true. It is perfectly possible to see and record the absurdities and abuses of man-made institutions and rituals, especially religious ones, while embracing a way of life that these evil or deluded people preached but didn’t practice. Fanaticism is not synonymous with faith; it is merely faith at its worst. That’s what I told Hitch: great book, made no difference to my understanding of my own faith or anyone else’s. Sorry, old bean, but try again.
    http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/...religions.html
    Last edited by LA Ute; 12-08-2018 at 11:42 AM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  2. #542
    If you define "religion" as spirituality or philosophy for life, then I guess you could call atheism a religion. That is the only way that article makes any sense.

  3. #543
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Andrew Sullivan:

    America’s New Religions



    http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/...religions.html
    I really like what he is saying there.

  4. #544
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthwestUteFan View Post
    If you define "religion" as spirituality or philosophy for life, then I guess you could call atheism a religion. That is the only way that article makes any sense.
    It looked to me like Sullivan, who is a truly heterodox thinker, by the way, is saying that even non-believers substitute some type of higher authority or guiding light in their lives for divinity. I think he is right. Everybody places faith in something.

    I´ve always thought that there are very few true atheists. The more intellectually honest description is agnostic, since the existence or non-existence of any deity is unprovable. I admire a great many agnostics, some of whom are close friends.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  5. #545
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    I’ve always liked this Christmas poem. To me it is sobering.

    Christ Ran Stumbling

    Christ ran stumbling down the street
    on little twisted feet;
    small blue hands over the place
    where someone had bruised his face.
    His starved, thin body shook with tears
    and quick short gasps of fear.

    Bitter the December day,
    streets and sky an equal gray;
    no brightness, but the neoned pub
    where city men with Christmas grin
    forgetfully went out and in.

    When did we see you? folk will say
    at the last day.

    --The Rev. Anthony Ross, Lord Rector of the University of Edinburgh

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  6. #546
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I´ve always thought that there are very few true atheists. The more intellectually honest description is agnostic, since the existence or non-existence of any deity is unprovable. I admire a great many agnostics, some of whom are close friends.
    Very much agree. Religion itself has such a strong imprint of being a product of human beings. The ridiculous stories, rituals and rules don't invalidate the ultimate question of what happens next.

    In my experience, there is reason to be hopeful, yet in so many instances, religion squeezes faith out of people, when they look more deeply at what they've signed up for.

  7. #547
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    The ridiculous stories, rituals and rules....
    Technical foul! Two shots, I get possession of the ball afterwards. 😀

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  8. #548
    Every great Christmas story needs a stop motion animation:


  9. #549
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    A Believer Thread

    This will be quite the subject of discussion for some time. I’m pretty excited.



    LDS Church changes temple ceremony; faithful feminists will see revisions and additions as a ‘leap forward’

    https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2019/01/02/lds-church-releases/


    (Note for those who aren’t familiar with Peggy Fletcher Stack: I’ve known her for decades. She does interview her friends and acquaintances for her articles, and she’s done that here. I still think it’s a good article.)
    Last edited by LA Ute; 01-02-2019 at 10:39 PM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  10. #550
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    This will be quite the subject of discussion for some time. I’m pretty excited.
    I'm excited too. They changed the videos a few years ago for the worse, and I'm hoping that gets fixed. Also, they may have shortened it? If so, that's great news.

  11. #551
    There is a thread on both the "mormon" and "Ex-mormon" subreddits that go over the changes. Apparently they have cut about 20 minutes of run time down. I like that a lot as I felt the new ones dragged on way too long with needless theatrics. I guess I need to get to a session soon. Apparently all 3 temple ordinances saw changes.

    Quick PFS story: A friend of mine was an early returned missionary around the time that she wanted to do a feature on such folks. She contacted him and interviewed him about his experiences. In the article, he wasn't mentioned or quoted (which no doubt happens often). When he reached out to ask why, he was told that his story didn't fit the narrative of what she wanted to portray. I have had a bit of a struggle taking her seriously since then.

  12. #552
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    This will be quite the subject of discussion for some time. I’m pretty excited.



    LDS Church changes temple ceremony; faithful feminists will see revisions and additions as a ‘leap forward’


    https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2019/01/02/lds-church-releases/


    (Note for those who aren’t familiar with Peggy Fletcher Stack: I’ve known her for decades. She does interview her friends and acquaintances for her articles, and she’s done that here. I still think it’s a good article.)
    Loved this line:

    With the latest changes, temple attendance is sure to surge in coming days as faithful members, eager to see the ceremony for themselves, flock to one of the faith’s 161 operating temples around the world.

  13. #553
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Applejack View Post
    Loved this line:
    Hey, attendance at stake conference is always higher when people know a charismatic GA is visiting. This is much bigger!

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  14. #554
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Thought piece:

    From Astrology to Cult Politics—the Many Ways We Try (and Fail) to Replace Religion

    https://quillette.com/2018/12/27/fro...lace-religion/

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  15. #555
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Interesting statistics on hate crimes against religious groups. The crimes against latter-day Saints seem like a drop in the bucket.

    https://www.deseretnews.com/article/...heres-why.html

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  16. #556
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Interesting statistics on hate crimes against religious groups. The crimes against latter-day Saints seem like a drop in the bucket.

    https://www.deseretnews.com/article/...heres-why.html
    The FBI obviously didn't attend the rivalry game in November then.

  17. #557
    Senior Member Scorcho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Schr-Ute View Post
    The FBI obviously didn't attend the rivalry game in November then.
    since you're too humble, I'll do it for you

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