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Thread: A Believer Thread

  1. #391
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    There is no emoticon to express my anger.
    You need to think bigger. EFY is:

    EFYSAH.jpg

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  2. #392
    Senior Member Scorcho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Okay, I'm in. I'll give it a run on Sunday. Either that or give the women and the priesthood lesson to them for the third time.

    Keep posting lesson plans for me, Rocker.
    Sancho,

    I hope you are not skipping the "How can I participate effectively in the councils of the church?" lesson. That one has the youth on the edge of their seat with excitement.


  3. #393
    The bishop had asked that we spend three weeks of June taking the Teacher's Quorum through this fun one hour and 20 minute Q&A with Elder and Sister Bednar. We're two weeks down and I've sat through about fifteen minutes of it. Bless her heart, but there is just nothing easy about listing to Sister Bednar. One of the few questions I've endured through was directed at Sister Bednar about a girl who struggles with her self esteem in regards to her looks. At the end, Elder Bednar, steps in with good intentions, but proceeds to make the following comments towards his wife:

    -She's wrinkly
    -Sister Bednar is a nice looking elderly woman
    -Sister Bednar was gorgeous as a young woman, now that beauty is not in her physical attractiveness.
    -At her age, there's not another woman on the Earth as beautiful as Sister Bednar.

    What a flirt.

  4. #394
    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Schr-Ute View Post
    The bishop had asked that we spend three weeks of June taking the Teacher's Quorum through this fun one hour and 20 minute Q&A with Elder and Sister Bednar. We're two weeks down and I've sat through about fifteen minutes of it. Bless her heart, but there is just nothing easy about listing to Sister Bednar. One of the few questions I've endured through was directed at Sister Bednar about a girl who struggles with her self esteem in regards to her looks. At the end, Elder Bednar, steps in with good intentions, but proceeds to make the following comments towards his wife:

    -She's wrinkly
    -Sister Bednar is a nice looking elderly woman
    -Sister Bednar was gorgeous as a young woman, now that beauty is not in her physical attractiveness.
    -At her age, there's not another woman on the Earth as beautiful as Sister Bednar.

    What a flirt.
    There's a good lesson in here for the youth...probably not the one Elder Bednar intended.
    “It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.”

    Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

  5. #395
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  6. #396
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    I guess this goes here. Cinco Paul was actually in our same ward back in the day. I'd lost touch with him. His wife is a physician. Neat family.

    http://janariess.religionnews.com/20...in-the-church/


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  7. #397
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    This is a good piece from long ago, from an unlikely source:

    https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/wp-.../001-94-99.pdf

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  8. #398
    I have watched this Cecil the Lion story with some interest. I am not a hunter. I do not fish. I am not a gun owner. I am posing this question here, because it is a question I ask myself with respect to some other issues. According to the Bible, man was given dominion over the earth and all the creatures on the earth. I personally believe that dominion in this context means responsibility to care for and preserve God's creations. At one time there was a need for hunting and fishing for food rather than sport. It is still necessary in some parts of the world. Will God hold us accountable for not caring for and preserving His/Her creations?

  9. #399
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    The Believer Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    I have watched this Cecil the Lion story with some interest. I am not a hunter. I do not fish. I am not a gun owner. I am posing this question here, because it is a question I ask myself with respect to some other issues. According to the Bible, man was given dominion over the earth and all the creatures on the earth. I personally believe that dominion in this context means responsibility to care for and preserve God's creations. At one time there was a need for hunting and fishing for food rather than sport. It is still necessary in some parts of the world. Will God hold us accountable for not caring for and preserving His/Her creations?
    I'm like you, a non-hunting non-fishing non-gun owner. I am fine with hunting and fishing if the hunter actually eats the meat, but not trophy hunting, which I think is disgusting. I don't see it as a major wrong or sin but it's still a wrong IMO. Yes, I recognize the need to thin herds and the role hunting plays in wildlife conservation. I still find photos of grinning hunters holding the head of an exotic animal they've just killed revolting.

    Lest anyone confuse me for one of those people who care more about animals than people, although I find tropy hunting revolting, I find what Planned Parenthood apparently does with discarded human fetuses horrifying and evil.
    Last edited by LA Ute; 08-04-2015 at 01:02 PM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  10. #400
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    I have watched this Cecil the Lion story with some interest. I am not a hunter. I do not fish. I am not a gun owner. I am posing this question here, because it is a question I ask myself with respect to some other issues. According to the Bible, man was given dominion over the earth and all the creatures on the earth. I personally believe that dominion in this context means responsibility to care for and preserve God's creations. At one time there was a need for hunting and fishing for food rather than sport. It is still necessary in some parts of the world. Will God hold us accountable for not caring for and preserving His/Her creations?

    Don't hunt, fish, or own a gun, but strongly believe in the rights of responsible gun ownership. But my guess is he wants to puke when He sees this. So yeah, I think we'll be held accountable for not exercising responsible stewardship over his creation.
    “Children and dogs are as necessary to the welfare of the country as Wall Street and the railroads.” -- Harry S. Truman

    "You never soar so high as when you stoop down to help a child or an animal." -- Jewish Proverb

    "Three-time Pro Bowler Eric Weddle the most versatile, and maybe most intelligent, safety in the game." -- SI, 9/7/15, p. 107.

  11. #401
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I guess this goes here. Cinco Paul was actually in our same ward back in the day. I'd lost touch with him. His wife is a physician. Neat family.

    http://janariess.religionnews.com/20...in-the-church/


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    My daughter and her husband just moved from the LDS Ward where one of the writers currently lives. Apparently a few of the characters have been given names of some people the writer and his wife don't get along too well with.

  12. #402
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    My daughter and her husband just moved from the LDS Ward where one of the writers currently lives. Apparently a few of the characters have been given names of some people the writer and his wife don't get along too well with.
    Which minion is Lowell?

  13. #403
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthwestUteFan View Post
    Which minion is Lowell?
    ISadly, I did not get to know him well enough to qualify for his list of people he doesn't get along with. I would have loved it.

    I'd be this minion. Picture this with "Utes" on the jersey:

    tumblr_mqvqsyJxSS1qcflz6o2_r1_500.jpg
    Last edited by LA Ute; 08-06-2015 at 07:24 PM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  14. #404
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    I'm just posting this because I think it's beautiful. The author, amazingly, is only 22 years old.

    Why I Stay a Mormon When Many Friends Have Left


    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  15. #405
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    I have watched this Cecil the Lion story with some interest. I am not a hunter. I do not fish. I am not a gun owner. I am posing this question here, because it is a question I ask myself with respect to some other issues. According to the Bible, man was given dominion over the earth and all the creatures on the earth. I personally believe that dominion in this context means responsibility to care for and preserve God's creations. At one time there was a need for hunting and fishing for food rather than sport. It is still necessary in some parts of the world. Will God hold us accountable for not caring for and preserving His/Her creations?
    Great question, and I think we will be held accountable. In the history of western religion, there are quite a few previous commandments that are now viewed differently. A lot of things in Leviticus, Eye-for-an-Eye, stoning adulteresses to death, etc. I would add the death penalty to a list of practices we should probably leave in the past.

  16. #406
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    Great question, and I think we will be held accountable. In the history of western religion, there are quite a few previous commandments that are now viewed differently. A lot of things in Leviticus, Eye-for-an-Eye, stoning adulteresses to death, etc. I would add the death penalty to a list of practices we should probably leave in the past.
    I think the death penalty is a political issue, not a religious one. Meaning there's no biblical requirement to keep it or to abolish it. I have always been ambivalent about the DP. In some cases it just seems necessary/right, but the chance that an innocent may be executed is very disturbing.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  17. #407
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I think the death penalty is a political issue, not a religious one. Meaning there's no biblical requirement to keep it or to abolish it. I have always been ambivalent about the DP. In some cases it just seems necessary/right, but the chance that an innocent may be executed is very disturbing.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I have gone back and forth on the death penalty. I'm probably 99% opposed and then I think of what my mindset would be if someone murdered my wife, children or one of my grandchildren. I leave the 1% open because I cannot absolutely say that I would be opposed to it in one of those situations.

  18. #408
    I'm with Ma'ake on this one. Let's leave the death penalty behind. I just can't square the practice with the teachings of Jesus. Uteopia, your one percent statement does reflect some of my own thinking. It's easy for me to throw out a platitude but I still think we should abolish it. Societies need to be above killing their citizens. One exception - if a convicted/confessed murderer asked to be executed, I'd allow it. I believe Arthur Gary Bishop asked to be killed.

  19. #409
    Quote Originally Posted by Utebiquitous View Post
    I'm with Ma'ake on this one. Let's leave the death penalty behind. I just can't square the practice with the teachings of Jesus. Uteopia, your one percent statement does reflect some of my own thinking. It's easy for me to throw out a platitude but I still think we should abolish it. Societies need to be above killing their citizens. One exception - if a convicted/confessed murderer asked to be executed, I'd allow it. I believe Arthur Gary Bishop asked to be killed.
    No death penalty. Too much room for error, wrongful deaths and we have the capacity to incarcerate people through their mortal life. I'm with the others in thinking this doesn't line up with the gospel of Jesus Christ in any way.

  20. #410
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I'm just posting this because I think it's beautiful. The author, amazingly, is only 22 years old.
    Why I Stay a Mormon When Many Friends Have Left
    An impressive, compelling read, even for a heathen like me.

    One thing this piece really exposes is how social we are as creatures, how our thinking, "testimony" and ultimately our salvation (in the Christian sense) is dependent upon the influence of others, but when it comes down to it, one's destiny is almost entirely an individual thing.

    When I decided to go in a different direction, I really didn't talk to anyone about it, or try to get others to join me. I did a whole lotta soul searching, really wrestled with the decision, then made it, felt a lot of lingering guilt and anxiety, which gradually diminished and I began to get spiritual "nourishment" in other ways, from other experiences.

    In retrospect, I would make the same course adjustment in my life, and with the avalanche of information available today, I would probably not have second-guessed myself as much.

    On this article, my hunch is the folks around this young woman who've left seem much greater in number and impact, I guess I'm a little skeptical the out-migration is as strong as she feels. But it's certainly impacting her, and her finding her bearings is impressive.

  21. #411
    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    An impressive, compelling read, even for a heathen like me.

    One thing this piece really exposes is how social we are as creatures, how our thinking, "testimony" and ultimately our salvation (in the Christian sense) is dependent upon the influence of others, but when it comes down to it, one's destiny is almost entirely an individual thing.

    When I decided to go in a different direction, I really didn't talk to anyone about it, or try to get others to join me. I did a whole lotta soul searching, really wrestled with the decision, then made it, felt a lot of lingering guilt and anxiety, which gradually diminished and I began to get spiritual "nourishment" in other ways, from other experiences.

    In retrospect, I would make the same course adjustment in my life, and with the avalanche of information available today, I would probably not have second-guessed myself as much.

    On this article, my hunch is the folks around this young woman who've left seem much greater in number and impact, I guess I'm a little skeptical the out-migration is as strong as she feels. But it's certainly impacting her, and her finding her bearings is impressive.
    Hey you heathen--give up this religious thread and start doing practice reports. Thank you.

  22. #412
    Amen! Get going Ma'ake.

  23. #413
    The death penalty is a pointless thing. It's more expensive than life, it doesn't deter crime and it's not reversible when we make mistakes (and we do)

    The idea that it benefits the victim's is what our justice system isn't supposed to be about. That's revenge not justice.

    And I know a few things about our sense of justice sometimes being off. I often have to remind myself it's not personal, even when I was the victim


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  24. #414
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    Hey you heathen--give up this religious thread and start doing practice reports. Thank you.
    LOL - Who's the Director of Football OPS? They're usually the cops. Isn't that Freddy? I can get past Freddy, for sure, especially since I'm not "media".

  25. #415
    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    LOL - Who's the Director of Football OPS? They're usually the cops. Isn't that Freddy? I can get past Freddy, for sure, especially since I'm not "media".
    It's Jeff Rudy. Fred is director of player personnel.


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  26. #416
    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    LOL - Who's the Director of Football OPS? They're usually the cops. Isn't that Freddy? I can get past Freddy, for sure, especially since I'm not "media".
    You are media now. Tell them you are a special reporter for the premier Utah Athletics information site, Utahby5. Then look soulfully in Rudy's eyes like Bill Marcroft used to do through tinted glasses.

  27. #417
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    You are media now. Tell them you are a special reporter for the premier Utah Athletics information site, Utahby5. Then look soulfully in Rudy's eyes like Bill Marcroft used to do through tinted glasses.
    Unfortunately they will check Twitter and see MooseKnuckles' tweets, and slowly close the door in Ma'ake's face while scowling slightly.

  28. #418
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    This is an interesting read. A full transcript of an autobiographical speech by Mike Otterson, the head of the church Public Affairs Department:

    http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/articl...mon-conference


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  29. #419
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    The Believer Thread

    I didn't see this posted anywhere else. Looks like an interesting book:


    First Principles and Ordinances: The Fourth Article of Faith in Light of the Temple


    A review here:


    http://www.mormoninterpreter.com/not...to-perfection/


    Has anyone read it yet?


    I thought Brown's self-description was interesting:


    a “practicing, believing, temple-going Latter-day Saint Christian who is sealed by temple ordinances to his family, … a scientist, a spouse, a parent, a child, a physician, a believer, a starry-eyed wonderer, and a sometimes melancholy remorseful human being who is struggling to make his way in a fallen world”

    This is a different type of book from the one he wrote about death, "In Heaven As It Is on Earth."
    Last edited by LA Ute; 08-15-2015 at 05:58 PM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  30. #420
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    I'm very happy to see this.

    "What You Will Read About in the New Institute Manual on Early Church History"

    http://www.mormoninterpreter.com/wha...hurch-history/


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

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