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Thread: A Believer Thread

  1. #451
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Hey guys, this is a believer thread.


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    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  2. #452
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Just an interesting story about a SUU player.

    http://m.deseretnews.com/article/865...m.facebook.com


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    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  3. #453
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Interesting read from an Arminian perspective.

    What’s Wrong with Calvinism?

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  4. #454
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Is that 30 questions, or is it the same question phrased in 30 different ways? Either way, I'm glad I'm not in that ward!
    No, it is questions normally asked of women that sound hilarious/preposterous when asked of men.

  5. #455
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Hey guys, this is a believer thread.


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    And yet somehow that restriction doesn't stop your missionary work in the other thread.

  6. #456
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthwestUteFan View Post
    And yet somehow that restriction doesn't stop your missionary work in the other thread.
    No restriction. Just saying "Hey!"


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    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  7. #457
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    No restriction. Just saying "Hey!"


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    Condition noted.

  8. #458
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Is that 30 questions, or is it the same question phrased in 30 different ways? Either way, I'm glad I'm not in that ward!
    Truthfully, it seems that whatever group you might be part of has questions and language like this that 'marginalizes' them. Conversely my wife who is highly educated and a former professional who is currently choosing to be a stay-at-home-mom and I get comments and questions like, "Don't you wish you were doing something more fulfilling? Are you one of those guys who has to keep his little wife at home? I can't imagine how bored I would get doing that. It must be nice for you (while poking me with an elbow). It must be nice being able to live off of just one income. Look at you, the perfect little family. I wish I could just relax all day long..."

    I've determined that this generation's primary export is being offended and being outraged. People say stupid stuff all the time, but it is a lot more useful to try to figure out what their intent is versus getting upset, no matter how stupid it is what they've said. That cute little wife of mine taught me that, she is such a spiritual giant!
    Last edited by Rocker Ute; 01-21-2016 at 08:38 AM.

  9. #459
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    Truthfully, it seems that whatever group you might be part of has questions and language like this that 'marginalizes' them. Conversely my wife who is highly educated and a former professional who is currently choosing to be a stay-at-home-mom and I get comments and questions like, "Don't you wish you were doing something more fulfilling? Are you one of those guys who has to keep his little wife at home? I can't imagine how bored I would get doing that. It must be nice for you (while poking me with an elbow). It must be nice being able to live off of just one income. Look at you, the perfect little family. I wish I could just relax all day long..."

    I've determined that this generation's primary export is being offended and being outraged. People say stupid stuff all the time, but it is a lot more useful to try to figure out what their intent is versus getting upset, no matter how stupid it is what they've said. That cute little wife of mine taught me that, she is such a spiritual giant!
    Most folks are projecting when they do that. I had a "friend" keep poking me about my income when we moved into a new place (a townhouse, about 20 minutes farther out than our previous townhouse) "You must be making 6 figures to live there...I don't know anyone that lives there that doesn't."
    “It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.”

    Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

  10. #460
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthwestUteFan View Post
    Here is a quick article written by a friend from high school, discussing cultural stereotypes to avoid.

    http://ldsmag.com/30-questions-nobod...ed-my-husband/

    The best humor is based in truth, and this is a good example of humorous truths. My wife experienced a few of these examples ad nauseum, though not nearly as much later in her career, whether it's because times are changing, or her position is higher profile.....I don't know.

    While she was an MBA student at BYU over 20 years ago, she would bump into more than her fair share of male classmates that had a clear sexist bent on women in the workforce. Really backwards thinking. However, I'm convinced Utah County, but especially BYU in particular, is a petri dish of the very worst of LDS culture. A school led, administered, taught and attended by almost exclusively the "most worthy" of all mormons. I wouldn't survive a week there.
    “Children and dogs are as necessary to the welfare of the country as Wall Street and the railroads.” -- Harry S. Truman

    "You never soar so high as when you stoop down to help a child or an animal." -- Jewish Proverb

    "Three-time Pro Bowler Eric Weddle the most versatile, and maybe most intelligent, safety in the game." -- SI, 9/7/15, p. 107.

  11. #461
    Quote Originally Posted by mUUser View Post
    A school led, administered, taught and attended by almost exclusively the "most worthy" of all mormons. I wouldn't survive a week there.
    The diet coke habit alone would be enough for people to give you sideways looks and threaten to turn you in to the HCO...

  12. #462
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthwestUteFan View Post
    Here is a quick article written by a friend from high school, discussing cultural stereotypes to avoid.

    http://ldsmag.com/30-questions-nobod...ed-my-husband/
    Julie is the only redeeming value to Meridian. I'm still trying to figure out how she conned them into letting her contribute. Guess it's only a matter of time before they catch on.


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  13. #463
    Malleus Cougarorum Solon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Schr-Ute View Post
    Julie is the only redeeming value to Meridian. I'm still trying to figure out how she conned them into letting her contribute. Guess it's only a matter of time before they catch on.


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    Uhhh. Kind of a stupid question but here goes:
    If I wanted to get ahold of a Stake President, would I contact the Stake Clerk or the Stake Executive Secretary. I'm not all that familiar with the stake level of bureaucracy.

    I'm, um, asking for a friend.
    σοφῷ ἀνδρὶ Ἑλλὰς πάντα.
    -- Flavius Philostratus, Life of Apollonius 1.35.2.

  14. #464
    Quote Originally Posted by Solon View Post
    Uhhh. Kind of a stupid question but here goes:
    If I wanted to get ahold of a Stake President, would I contact the Stake Clerk or the Stake Executive Secretary. I'm not all that familiar with the stake level of bureaucracy.

    I'm, um, asking for a friend.
    Executive secretary is your best bet.
    “It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.”

    Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

  15. #465
    Malleus Cougarorum Solon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrumNFeather View Post
    Executive secretary is your best bet.
    Gracias.
    σοφῷ ἀνδρὶ Ἑλλὰς πάντα.
    -- Flavius Philostratus, Life of Apollonius 1.35.2.

  16. #466
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    I agree with this column.

    The underlying question is unanswerable. Religion is pretty easy to criticize. "You believe *WHAT*!?!?"

    But that doesn't mean there is nothing, zilch, nada.

    Given that it's impossible to fully *know*, one way or the other... why not be optimistic?

    Now... about this fantasy of having 72 virgins. Whoever put together that prize clearly wasn't thinking things through very far.

    Somebody should create some kind of Virtual Reality simulation of what that would actually be like, beyond the initial 20 minutes of fun... complete with the mood swings, endless list of "honey do's", etc. And can you imagine the stupid little minor jealousies involved... multiplied 72 times?

    That sounds like a type of "hell", to me.

  17. #467
    Senior Member Scorcho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Happy Easter, friends. Speaking today turned out to be a great experience for my wife and me. Hope y'all have a great day!
    The older I get the more I enjoy holidays like Easter. I liken it to Christmas Eve, just a peaceful time when you can reflect on family and Jesus Christ.

  18. #468
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Happy Easter, friends. Speaking today turned out to be a great experience for my wife and me. Hope y'all have a great day!
    Happy Easter to that beautiful beard of yours and you. Glad you had a great day.

  19. #469
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Our ward had fast & testimony meeting. Go figure. But it was a very good meeting.


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    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  20. #470
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    I am inclined to think a Christian would be wise to avoid, where he decently can, any meeting with people who are bullies, lascivious, cruel, dishonest, spiteful, and so forth. Not because we are ‘too good’ for them. In a sense because we are not good enough.

    We are not good enough to cope with all the temptations, nor clever enough to cope with all the problems, which an evening spent in such society produces. The temptation is to condone, to connive at; by our words, looks and laughter, to ‘consent’.

    Things we hold sacred will be mocked….We are encouraging him to believe that ‘those Christians’, once you get them off their guard and round a dinner table, really think and feel exactly as he does. By implication we are denying our Master; behaving as if we ‘knew not the Man’. On the other hand is one to show that, like Queen Victoria, one is ‘not amused’? Is one to be contentious, interrupting the flow of conversation at every moment with ‘I don’t agree, I don’t agree’? Or rise and go away? But by these courses we may also confirm some of their worst suspicions of ‘those Christians’. We are just the sort of ill-mannered prigs they always said.
    C.S. Lewis

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  21. #471
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    MORMONS AT THE FOREFRONT

    Terry Givens in First Things:

    http://www.firstthings.com/article/2...-the-forefront

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  22. #472
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    This is by a newly Christian woman who lives in Utah.

    Nicole Cliffe: How God Messed Up My Happy Atheist Life

    http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/...cebook&start=1


    "It's men in shorts." -- Rick Majerus

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  23. #473
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    The rationality of belief in God, explained.

    https://www.facebook.com/prageru/vid...2181661824689/


    "It's men in shorts." -- Rick Majerus

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  24. #474
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    The rationality of belief in God, explained.

    https://www.facebook.com/prageru/vid...2181661824689/


    "It's men in shorts." -- Rick Majerus
    That was sacrilegious: calling God "the Big Banger?" I've never been so offended.

  25. #475
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Applejack View Post
    That was sacrilegious: calling God "the Big Banger?" I've never been so offended.
    Sorry, we try to make this thread a safe space, but sometimes things like that get through.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  26. #476
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  27. #477
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    "In the end, there are two kinds of thinkers. Those who say upon hearing the description of the many materially describable pieces and processes underlying the appearance, ‘This is all there is,’ and those who say, ‘No, it’s not.’

    "The former can say to the latter, ‘Show me why I should accept the idea of something more,’ and though many arguments can be offered, offered indeed on both sides, one who starts as a materialist will attempt to account for these central experiences as merely material events, not yet explained but explainable, while one who starts as a theist will say that these experiences are most fully illuminated when we reject the prospect that the determined material universe is all there is, and propose instead [a] creator.

    "The theist will say that love makes more sense, truth makes more sense, value, morality, beauty, longing, joy, hope, music, mystery, and goodness all make more sense in a universe that’s not merely accidental matter. It’s not an argument that such a thinker offers (although there are plenty of arguments), nor is it an argument that the materialist offers for the baseline and controlling belief that finally love, value, morality, beauty, longing, joy, hope, music, mystery, and goodness are temporary, accidental parts of a purely material universe.

    "At this deep level, it seems to me simply not to be about argument."

    Ray Barfield, Pascal’s Wager: What Is It To Be Human

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  28. #478
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    LDS apostle to Utah Mormons: Remember, we were once in the minority

    http://www.sltrib.com/lifestyle/fait...rmons-remember

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  29. #479
    It helped me a lot, when I realized that these men are just that. Men, who don't hold all the answers, and just like you and I, constantly make mistakes, even when it comes to how they lead the church. And like most of us, they have prejudices and thoughts on how things should be and sometimes they are wrong. And some of those prejudices are found in the "doctrine" of the church (or policies, whatever makes you sleep at night).

    Once you realize that these men are no more prophets than you or I, but good men trying to do their best, everything changes. It's freeing. You start to really see Christ all around you. Instead of hoops to jump through, you see opportunities to actually become a better person and help those around you.

    Ballard's message is fantastic. Treat everyone the same. It's that simple. Do good. That's it.

  30. #480
    Quote Originally Posted by Utah View Post
    It helped me a lot, when I realized that these men are just that. Men, who don't hold all the answers, and just like you and I, constantly make mistakes, even when it comes to how they lead the church. And like most of us, they have prejudices and thoughts on how things should be and sometimes they are wrong. And some of those prejudices are found in the "doctrine" of the church (or policies, whatever makes you sleep at night).

    Once you realize that these men are no more prophets than you or I, but good men trying to do their best, everything changes. It's freeing. You start to really see Christ all around you. Instead of hoops to jump through, you see opportunities to actually become a better person and help those around you.

    Ballard's message is fantastic. Treat everyone the same. It's that simple. Do good. That's it.
    But faithful members are required to sustain them as prophets, seers, and revelators. The church itself tells us that they are inspired to lead the kingdom of Christ on earth. So there is some dissonance in saying that they are just men doing their best.
    Dyslexics of the world, untie!

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