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Thread: A Believer Thread

  1. #481
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrenrut View Post
    But faithful members are required to sustain them as prophets, seers, and revelators. The church itself tells us that they are inspired to lead the kingdom of Christ on earth. So there is some dissonance in saying that they are just men doing their best.
    They are prophets, seers, and revelators until they die, and their teachings were wrong, then they are theorizers...men, trying to do their best with the knowledge they have:

    Over time, Church leaders and members advanced many theories to explain the priesthood and temple restrictions. None of these explanations is accepted today as the official doctrine of the Church.
    Mark E. Petersen and McConkie and later Smith's were some to come up with those "theories".

    According to one view, which had been promulgated in the United States from at least the 1730s, blacks descended from the same lineage as the biblical Cain, who slew his brother Abel.11
    This "view" was taught by our prophets.

    Soon after the revelation, Elder Bruce R. McConkie, an apostle, spoke of new “light and knowledge” that had erased previously “limited understanding.”23
    This "light and knowledge" came almost 10 years after the heathens and gentiles realized this.

    And here is the kicker, the part that shows that you are God's mouthpiece...until you are wrong, then you are just a philosophizer:

    Today, the Church disavows the theories advanced in the past that black skin is a sign of divine disfavor or curse, or that it reflects unrighteous actions in a premortal life; that mixed-race marriages are a sin; or that blacks or people of any other race or ethnicity are inferior in any way to anyone else. Church leaders today unequivocally condemn all racism, past and present, in any form.24
    Like I said, you are a seer, prophet and revelator until you aren't.

    God gave you the power of the Holy Ghost and a brain. I'd always trust them before a leader of any group.

  2. #482
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    From the Smithsonian magazine:

    Why Theoretical Physicist Sylvester James Gates Sees No Conflict Between Science and Religion


    Read more: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/scienc...DGsYjeCgMVB.99
    Give the gift of Smithsonian magazine for only $12! http://bit.ly/1cGUiGv

    The linked video:


    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  3. #483
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Study shows Mormons’ brains light up when they ‘feel the spirit’

    http://www.sltrib.com/home/4617561-1...rains-light-up

    They're going to do similar studies of other faiths.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  4. #484
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Study shows Mormons’ brains light up when they ‘feel the spirit’

    http://www.sltrib.com/home/4617561-1...rains-light-up

    They're going to do similar studies of other faiths.
    What happens when a Stones fan hears Light My Fire?
    One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

    --Albert Einstein

    The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.

    --Richard Dawkins

    Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.

    --Philo

  5. #485
    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    What happens when a Stones fan hears Light My Fire?
    I can't speak for all Stones fans, but I know my brain lights up. I bet it lights up even more for Doors fans.

  6. #486
    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    What happens when a Stones fan hears Light My Fire?

    A Stones Fan lighting up at a Doors song is virtually adultery.

  7. #487
    Whoops. My brain said Satisfaction, my fingers said Light My Fire.
    One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

    --Albert Einstein

    The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.

    --Richard Dawkins

    Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.

    --Philo

  8. #488
    I'm not a baby boomer. Sorry.
    One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

    --Albert Einstein

    The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.

    --Richard Dawkins

    Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.

    --Philo

  9. #489
    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    I'm not a baby boomer. Sorry.
    Stop trying to be a pretender. Stay in your comfort zone.

  10. #490
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Study shows Mormons’ brains light up when they ‘feel the spirit’

    http://www.sltrib.com/home/4617561-1...rains-light-up

    They're going to do similar studies of other faiths.
    Ha. Fox13 framed the study a little different. I just looked it up again and it seems that they have rethought and reworded the original headline. Current headline: "U of U Study: Religious thoughts trigger same reward system as love, drugs, music and sex"
    Original headline: "Study: Prayer feels as good as sex for members of LDS church"

  11. #491
    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Schr-Ute View Post
    Ha. Fox13 framed the study a little different. I just looked it up again and it seems that they have rethought and reworded the original headline. Current headline: "U of U Study: Religious thoughts trigger same reward system as love, drugs, music and sex"
    Original headline: "Study: Prayer feels as good as sex for members of LDS church"
    They realized there's no way sex felt as good as prayer


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  12. #492
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    I'm not a baby boomer. Sorry.
    As I was going down the stair
    I met a man who wasn't there.
    He wasn't there again today --
    I wish, I wish he'd go away!

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  13. #493
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I want to try a thread for believers of any faith. This is not intended for sectarian debate or criticizing any religion or church. It's really a place for for believers, or people who want to believe, or for people who wish they could believe, to discuss their personal faith journey. I'm glad vBulletin allows us to set up these interest group-oriented threads. Let's see how this goes.

    By way of introduction, as most of you probably know I am what I call a convinced Mormon. That means I believe all the church's restorationist claims and try my best to live its teachings. I'm unsuccessful in that effort daily, but I try. That doesn't mean I don't have questions or that I am blind to the church's warts. Meanwhile, having grown up in Utah and then lived for many years in L.A. I've come to appreciate, admire and even cherish the faith and traditions of others.

    I'll start by borrowing the photo I posed in the astronomy thread of the Sombrero Galaxy:



    As I noted there, this galaxy is 28 million light years from Earth. It has 800 billion suns and is 50,000 light years across.

    The vastness of the universe always causes me to think of what to me is the most stunning teaching of my church (and, in different ways, other churches). One of my favorite scriptures is in Moses 7:30:



    I choose to believe that God is the creator of all that vast universe, and yet still knows my name, and the name of every human being in all of history -- past or present. And that is stunning to me. It is a huge concept, and it's difficult to get my mind around it. But I try.

    Dieter F. Uchtdorf:



    These are the kinds of ideas that keep me going every day.
    Bump.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  14. #494
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    They realized there's no way sex felt as good as prayer
    This is beyond stupid. Anyone claiming prayer is as good or better than sex is a damn liar. Even with that said... some of my dumbass neighbors would still claim it to be so. Especially if they could say it in front of each other.
    Last edited by Devildog; 12-03-2016 at 07:21 PM.

  15. #495
    Quote Originally Posted by Devildog View Post
    This is beyond stupid. Anyone claiming prayer is as good or better than sex is a damn liar. Even with that said... some of my dumbass neighbors would still claim it to be so. Especially if they could say it in front of each other.
    Nobody said that, except a headline writer by mistake who later edited it.


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  16. #496
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    “Who is to blame for the greatest myth in the history of science and religion? These two guys.”

    https://blogs.thegospelcoalition.org...hese-two-guys/

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  17. #497
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    “Who is to blame for the greatest myth in the history of science and religion? These two guys.”


    https://blogs.thegospelcoalition.org...hese-two-guys/
    Wow. That's a lot of strawmen for a short article. It's true there isn't a war between science and religion, it's all one way. Religion attacks science. Science doesn't attack religion, it just continually undermines it as a result of the progress of science. The theory of evolution is not an attack on religion. It's science. Science doesn't care what any religion believes, it seeks the truth. Religion attacks science with things like intelligent design when it doesn't like the results of scientific progress. Religion doesn't seek truth, it seeks to support its beliefs. The same is true with the age of the earth and many other things.

  18. #498
    Quote Originally Posted by Hayes6 View Post
    Science doesn't attack religion
    True, science does not attack religion. But religion doesn't attack science either. Scientists often attack religion, and the religious often attack science.

    Science seeks the truth through evidence. Religion seeks the truth through spirituality. Philosophy seeks the truth through logic. Art seeks the truth through beauty. Solon seeks the truth through ancient languages. I seek the truth through football.

    The theory of evolution is not an attack on religion. It's science. The sermon on the mount is not an attack on science. It's religion (and art and philosophy and literature).

    Edit: I didn't read the article, so I may be completely missing the point.
    Last edited by sancho; 02-08-2017 at 05:12 PM.

  19. #499
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hayes6 View Post
    Wow. That's a lot of strawmen for a short article. It's true there isn't a war between science and religion, it's all one way. Religion attacks science. Science doesn't attack religion, it just continually undermines it as a result of the progress of science. The theory of evolution is not an attack on religion. It's science. Science doesn't care what any religion believes, it seeks the truth. Religion attacks science with things like intelligent design when it doesn't like the results of scientific progress. Religion doesn't seek truth, it seeks to support its beliefs. The same is true with the age of the earth and many other things.
    I didn't find the piece compelling. I am attracted to the idea that religion and science need not be at war, so I posted it for that reason. (I don't necessarily agree with everything I post here. I just look for interesting stuff.)

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  20. #500
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    I agree with this. Pile on!

    The Sheltered Ones

    http://www.jrganymede.com/2015/09/21...heltered-ones/

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  21. #501
    Chase Hansen puts a piece together for the LDS Institute program on campus.

    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/8...ute-video.html


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  22. #502
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Schr-Ute View Post
    Chase Hansen puts a piece together for the LDS Institute program on campus.

    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/8...ute-video.html


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I wonder if Kyle will use that in recruiting LDS athletes.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  23. #503
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    I dedicate this post to Seattle Ute.

    From Ross Douthat:

    Save the Mainline

    OUR intervention in Syria required me to be fully serious last Sunday, but now it’s time to return to this column’s ongoing series of implausible proposals, Easter Sunday edition. Which means I’ll be proposing — yes, I’m that predictable — that many of this newspaper’s secular liberal readers should head en masse to church....
    https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/04/1...ck-church.html

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  24. #504
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Interesting data.

    Does more schooling lead to less faith? Not for Mormons, other Christians

    http://www.sltrib.com/home/5220394-1...g-lead-to-less

    "But to be learned is good if they hearken into the counsels of God."

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  25. #505
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    How Oxford and Peter Singer drove me from atheism to Jesus

    http://www.veritas.org/oxford-atheism-to-jesus/

    I grew up in Australia, in a loving, secular home, and arrived at Sydney University as a critic of “religion.” I didn’t need faith to ground my identity or my values. I knew from the age of eight that I wanted to study history at Cambridge and become a historian. My identity lay in academic achievement, and my secular humanism was based on self-evident truths. As an undergrad, I won the University Medal and a Commonwealth Scholarship to undertake my Ph.D. in History at King’s College, Cambridge. King’s is known for its secular ideology and my perception of Christianity fitted well with the views of my fellow students: Christians were anti-intellectual and self-righteous....

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  26. #506
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  27. #507
    Senior Member Scorcho's Avatar
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    twice yesterday my video crashed because of our spotty building Wi-FI (which killed my lesson), why even recommend using a video in the lesson guide if you don't have the tools to use it.

  28. #508
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorcho View Post
    twice yesterday my video crashed because of our spotty building Wi-FI (which killed my lesson), why even recommend using a video in the lesson guide if you don't have the tools to use it.
    Two things you can count on in an LDS chapel.....the password for the wifi being the same (even had a report that its the same in New Zeland!), and said WiFi being VERY unreliable. In my lessons, Ive had to just eat it and use my own data.

  29. #509
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scorcho View Post
    twice yesterday my video crashed because of our spotty building Wi-FI (which killed my lesson), why even recommend using a video in the lesson guide if you don't have the tools to use it.
    I've given up on building wi-fi for streaming anything. You can download most church videos to your tablet or laptop. Try that. Thanks to my tech-savvy son I've even learned how to download Youtubes.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  30. #510
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I've given up on building wi-fi for streaming anything. You can download most church videos to your tablet or laptop. Try that. Thanks to my tech-savvy son I've even learned how to download Youtubes.
    The challenge that they have is you've got 80 people connecting to the same access point at once. You can do two things, either download before hand or ask everyone to put their phones in airplane mode.

    I always download videos beforehand for any presentation at work. I always assume the internet is going to go out at one point or another, and so I always have a backup, because 90% of the time it does.

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