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Thread: A Believer Thread

  1. #211
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wuapinmon View Post
    The snark of other shores is absent here.
    hallelujah.jpg

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  2. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by Solon View Post
    http://www.lds.org/liahona/2013/10/o...f-jen?lang=eng

    This is in the Oct. 2013 Ensign (although I don't know why it shows up as a Liahona article on lds.org).

    Jen is my sister. I thought this was a really nice compliment to her.

    Funny, though - I have some very different memories of my sister & the author in high school.

    (just kidding)
    They have to boost those Liahona numbers some how.

  3. #213
    Educating Cyrus wuapinmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I believe that's DU Ute's job.
    "This culture doesn't sell modesty. It sells "I am more modest than you" modesty." -- Two Utes

  4. #214
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    A different twist on this thread's topic:

    How Far Should Churches Go To Appeal To Men?

    One church in Canada reevaluated their worship song repertoire to attract more male members. Should other churches do the same?

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  5. #215
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    If anyone is in the neighborhood on Oct. 17, this looks interesting:

    The Howard W. Hunter Foundation and Mormon Studies Council at
    Claremont Graduate University
    are pleased to invite you to...

    A Free Public Lecture
    by Dr. Laurie Maffly-Kipp
    Distinguished University Professor in the Danforth Center on Religion and Politics at Washington University, St. Louis

    Thursday, October 17
    at 7:30 p.m.
    Albrecht Auditorium in Stauffer Hall
    Claremont Graduate University
    925 N. Dartmouth Ave.
    Claremont, CA

    Mormon Schisms: The Logic of Scriptural Abundance

    ========================
    Laurie Maffly-Kipp received her B.A. from Amherst College in English and Religion (summa cum laude), and completed the PhD in American History at Yale University (1990). She spent twenty-four years at the University of North Carolina as a professor of Religious Studies, and served as department chair for five years. In 2013 she was appointed as a Distinguished University Professor in the John C. Danforth Center on Religion and Politics at Washington University in St. Louis.

    Professor Maffly-Kipp's research and teaching focuses on African-American religions, religion on the Pacific borderlands of the Americas, and issues of intercultural contact. In Religion and Society in Frontier California (Yale University Press, 1994) she explored the nature of Protestant spiritual practices in Gold Rush California. In articles on Mormon-Protestant conflicts in the Pacific Islands, African-Americans in Haiti and Africa, and Protestant outreach to Chinese immigrants in California, Laurie has analyzed the religious contours of nineteenth-century American life.

    She is the recipient of numerous fellowships and grants, including a grant for a collaborative project on the History of Christian Practice from the Lilly Endowment, Inc., fellowships at the National Humanities Center, and an NEH Fellowship for University Professors.

    Currently Laurie is working on a survey of Mormonism in American life that will be published by Basic Books.

    =======================
    Driving Directions:
    The best way to get to Claremont Graduate University is either from the San Bernardino (I-10) freeway or the Foothill Freeway (I - 210).
    From the 10 Freeway: Exit at Indian Hill Blvd. and travel north a couple of miles to Tenth St. Turn right and travel down Tenth until you see your destination on the right at the corner with Dartmouth Ave.

    From the westbound 210: Exit at Baseline/Padua and travel west, turn left and travel down Monte Vista until you reach Foothill Blvd. Turn right onto Foothill and travel one mile until you reach Dartmouth Ave. Turn left and travel down Dartmouth until you see your destination on the right hand side after crossing the intersection with Tenth St.

    From the eastbound 210: Exit at Towne and turn right. Travel down Towne until you reach Foothill Blvd. Turn left onto Foothill and travel east a few miles until you reach Dartmouth Ave. Turn right and travel down Dartmouth until you see your destination on the right hand side after crossing the intersection with Tenth St.

    PARKING: There is a parking lot just south of the auditorium on Dartmouth (also between Eighth and Tenth Streets) and handicapped parking spaces on 10th Street (right next to the Auditorium). For help finding your way around campus, please click on this link:Map of CGU Campus

    For more information, please contact Steve Bradford at stephenlbradford@gmail.com

    ==========================

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  6. #216
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    This is the kind of piece that some Mormons are going to be all triumphal about, but it is an interesting perspective from a Presbyterian Evangelical who has what many call "holy envy" of LDS culture and growth:

    Six Reasons Why Mormons Are Beating Baptists (In Church Growth)

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  7. #217
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    "My parents brainwashed me."

    Last edited by LA Ute; 10-19-2013 at 08:37 PM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  8. #218

    Brad Wilcox -

    His Grace is Sufficient. I wish I had this perspective growing up but I am so thankful to teach my children and share with my ward. It has transformed me:

    "But I tried didn't I? ... at least I did that."

  9. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    This is the kind of piece that some Mormons are going to be all triumphal about, but it is an interesting perspective from a Presbyterian Evangelical who has what many call "holy envy" of LDS culture and growth:

    Six Reasons Why Mormons Are Beating Baptists (In Church Growth)
    Given that the PCA's stance on things like women's role in religion and homosexuality is far closer to the LDS church than the PCUSA's stance this really should come as no surprise.

    As someone who was raised in the PCUSA, the PCA really is "Presbyterian" in historical doctrinal aspects only

  10. #220
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    Given that the PCA's stance on things like women's role in religion and homosexuality is far closer to the LDS church than the PCUSA's stance this really should come as no surprise.

    As someone who was raised in the PCUSA, the PCA really is "Presbyterian" in historical doctrinal aspects only
    I've always been a little confused about the PAC and the PCUSA. I have a good friend who is a member of the PCUSA but describes himself as an Evangelical Christian. He is very conservative politically as well. Is he anomalous?

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  11. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I've always been a little confused about the PAC and the PCUSA. I have a good friend who is a member of the PCUSA but describes himself as an Evangelical Christian. He is very conservative politically as well. Is he anomalous?
    Yeah he is.

    PCUSA is not evangelical at all, and while not on the liberal end of things to the Unitarian scale, it's certainly not conservative.

    Men and women are both encouraged and welcomed as ordained Ministers (I have two aunts who are ordained Presbyterian Ministers), elders, deacons etc. there is absolutely no differentiation

    The issue of homosexuality is a bit dicey only because all single and homosexual ministers are, by rule, supposed to be celibate. (However this rule is not investigated for a single pastor or a homosexual pastor in most cases) But homosexuality certainly isn't considered a sin by any means.

    The PCA does not allow women to hold leadership positions and feels homosexuality is a sin that can be reformed. There are other differences, but those are the most glaring.

  12. #222
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    This will get mixed reactions, but I liked it. (Having a 16 year-old daughter has something to do with my response.)

    Last edited by LA Ute; 10-24-2013 at 11:31 PM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  13. #223
    Love it. No reason to love it, but do. The adult leaders voice is awesome.

    (Have a 16 y/o daughter too, so maybe that has something to do with it)
    “Children and dogs are as necessary to the welfare of the country as Wall Street and the railroads.” -- Harry S. Truman

    "You never soar so high as when you stoop down to help a child or an animal." -- Jewish Proverb

    "Three-time Pro Bowler Eric Weddle the most versatile, and maybe most intelligent, safety in the game." -- SI, 9/7/15, p. 107.

  14. #224
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  15. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    This will get mixed reactions, but I liked it. (Having a 16 year-old daughter has something to do with my response.)
    The mullah LDS culture is amazing to me. Especially this bubble here in Utah. They honestly seem to revel in their absolute nerdiness.

    I swear... if these kids made this video where I grew up, they would get their asses kicked just for participating... and well they should.

  16. #226
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    That video is horrible in every way. I would have much rather had the boulder pushing young men's leader than somebody who would try to get me to perform like that. And the boulder pusher is probably a better example.
    First, I really think you'd be a more valuable contributor to this forum if you'd stop being so shy about your opinions. You too, DevilDog.

    Second, my daughter liked it a lot. Based on that all-important demographic, I declare this video superb.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  17. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Yes, they should. All Lone Peak students could probably benefit from more frequent beatings.

    It was understood growing up that I would attend all church activities, firesides, and meetings (and I wanted to because I enjoyed them), but there were a handful (4-5 total maybe) of activities that it was just clear I would not be attending - young ambassador fireside, EFY, etc. This would have fit that category. I'm pretty sure that the attendance from my YM group would have been zero for that activity and that my YM group was superior to those boys in every measurable way. The chosen generation game and went and is now wasting time on the internet while at work.

    Modesty songs, activities, proms, etc are so strange. Do we underestimate our youth, or do I underestimate the pull of immodest dress?
    I believe Sancho and I may have been raised in the same family. I was a really, really good kid by LDS standards. I also treated the YW I associated with very well, especially by YM standards. That said, there was no chance in hell I would have participated in that video, and there is similarly no chance that I would have refrained from making fun of the guys who did it. I've just never been a fan of all of the "manufactured" spirituality and wholesomeness that seems to be so popular with LDS youth. I think we're doing them a big disservice when we try to create and magnify spirituality out of nothing and then shove it down their throats.

  18. #228
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scratch View Post
    I believe Sancho and I may have been raised in the same family. I was a really, really good kid by LDS standards. I also treated the YW I associated with very well, especially by YM standards. That said, there was no chance in hell I would have participated in that video, and there is similarly no chance that I would have refrained from making fun of the guys who did it. I've just never been a fan of all of the "manufactured" spirituality and wholesomeness that seems to be so popular with LDS youth. I think we're doing them a big disservice when we try to create and magnify spirituality out of nothing and then shove it down their throats.
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Yes, they should. All Lone Peak students could probably benefit from more frequent beatings.

    It was understood growing up that I would attend all church activities, firesides, and meetings (and I wanted to because I enjoyed them), but there were a handful (4-5 total maybe) of activities that it was just clear I would not be attending - young ambassador fireside, EFY, etc. This would have fit that category. I'm pretty sure that the attendance from my YM group would have been zero for that activity and that my YM group was superior to those boys in every measurable way. The chosen generation came and went and is now wasting time on the internet while at work.

    Modesty songs, activities, proms, etc are so strange. Do we underestimate our youth, or do I underestimate the pull of immodest dress?
    Quote Originally Posted by Devildog View Post
    The mullah LDS culture is amazing to me. Especially this bubble here in Utah. They honestly seem to revel in their absolute nerdiness.

    I swear... if these kids made this video where I grew up, they would get their asses kicked just for participating... and well they should.
    You are all a bunch of humorless sticks in the mud. I say this with love.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  19. #229
    It's interesting to me that the LDS church makes so much effort emphasizing gender differences and roles, but also seems hell-bent on turning young men into a bunch of emasculated, namby pamby wusses.

  20. #230
    LOL @ that youtube!!! Those YM in the vid are going to SOOOOO regret this. BTW, YW don't dress for YM, they dress for other YW. This is true of women in general. Women are concerned with how other women perceive them and their wardrobe WAYYYYYY more than what men think (at least my wife tells me this).

    Based on this understanding, the video would be much more effective if instead of a bunch of dorky teenage boys singing in cracking voices about their fake desire for a modest hottie, there were a bunch of snotty looking teenage girls singing about how they will label a girl a tramp and start a salacious rumor about her if she dresses "skanky". It is more effective because it is more truthful. And honesty is a virtue too you know!

  21. #231
    This may be the first embarrassing video young LDS men have ever made.

    I'm with Scratch on you couldn't have dragged me to do this, and I would have taken liberty to mock my friends who did, all while being a somewhat upstanding young man by LDS standards. However, we also shouldn't forget what it is like being a teenager regardless of faith or virtue. Goofiness and silliness just abounds.

    I just watched that video with a smirk and felt grateful, like I often do when watching teenagers do what they do, that that stage of my life is over.

  22. #232
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    I want all you humorless sticks in the mud to consider he possibility that the video is only half-serious and that the dorky teen boys just had a blast making it. I say this also with love.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  23. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I want all you humorless sticks in the mud to consider he possibility that the video is only half-serious and that the dorky teen boys just had a blast making it. I say this also with love.
    I never doubted that. In fact, that's what worries me.

  24. #234
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scratch View Post
    I believe Sancho and I may have been raised in the same family. I was a really, really good kid by LDS standards. I also treated the YW I associated with very well, especially by YM standards. That said, there was no chance in hell I would have participated in that video, and there is similarly no chance that I would have refrained from making fun of the guys who did it. I've just never been a fan of all of the "manufactured" spirituality and wholesomeness that seems to be so popular with LDS youth. I think we're doing them a big disservice when we try to create and magnify spirituality out of nothing and then shove it down their throats.
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Yes, they should. All Lone Peak students could probably benefit from more frequent beatings.

    It was understood growing up that I would attend all church activities, firesides, and meetings (and I wanted to because I enjoyed them), but there were a handful (4-5 total maybe) of activities that it was just clear I would not be attending - young ambassador fireside, EFY, etc. This would have fit that category. I'm pretty sure that the attendance from my YM group would have been zero for that activity and that my YM group was superior to those boys in every measurable way. The chosen generation came and went and is now wasting time on the internet while at work.

    Modesty songs, activities, proms, etc are so strange. Do we underestimate our youth, or do I underestimate the pull of immodest dress?
    Next thing I know you naysayers will be telling those kids to get off your lawn. You're all far too young for that.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  25. #235
    I watched less than a minute. My life expectancy was just cut short.

  26. #236
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    You have my target demographic wrong. I don't hate teenagers. I hate dirtbags and people from Utah county.
    I was able to get over the Utah County aspect of the video. It was not easy, I'll admit. I urge you to find it in your heart to do the same.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  27. #237
    By the way, if that was the Lone Peak stake, doesn't that mean half those dudes are going to be playing basketball for Dave Rose? At least they're ready to contribute to the next generation of BYU's promotional videos.

  28. #238
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scratch View Post
    By the way, if that was the Lone Peak stake, doesn't that mean half those dudes are going to be playing basketball for Dave Rose? At least they're ready to contribute to the next generation of BYU's promotional videos.
    Some of them may be savable. You never know. Many of them may yet be susceptible to the whisperings of the Ute spirit.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  29. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Some of them may be savable. You never know. Many of them may yet be susceptible to the whisperings of the Ute spirit.
    Not a chance. If there's one thing we've taught our youth with today's preferred instructional methods it's that the spirit doesn't whisper, it shouts with a microphone while telling a lot of bad jokes after you pay it an appearance fee, and you can also pick up the message from the spirit in black and white for a small fee at Deseret Book. Interestingly, most youth also believe that the spirit sounds a lot like John Bytheway.

  30. #240
    That was weird. We spend a lot of time at our place in PC and I will never really understand the UC culture. Maybe Lebowski can explain this in some way.
    Last edited by Viking; 10-26-2013 at 12:14 AM.

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