The problem is that all the recent massacres have occurred in gun-free zones, so people are starting to examine the effectiveness of that approach.Originally Posted by Two Utes
The problem is that all the recent massacres have occurred in gun-free zones, so people are starting to examine the effectiveness of that approach.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
This one happened at a club with a uniformed off duty Orlando Police officer working there
He exchanged fire with the suspect. But he's got a handgun to try and stop someone with an assault rifle. That's not likely to happen, even when the person with the handgun is well trained (most concealed carry folks aren't)
People who are to the point of actually going through with something like this don't care if someone shoots at them.
There are some things we could do to make places safer, but neither side is willing to discuss those things. They'd rather turn everything political and make it all or nothing.
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Agree. I am all for discussing stricter gun laws. But people are so entrenched on both sides, they simply use the tragedy to spout about their position. Twitter is starting to become unruly.
You can divide a room more quickly by mentioning gun control than by raising any other subject, IMO. It's amazing to watch.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
Just to be clear, this was TIC.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
Thought-provoking piece here:
THE ORLANDO MASSACRE AND THE CRISIS OF HUMANISM
http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite...2#.V18NtHErLIV
As usual I do not endorse everything this guy says. Most of it, though -- especially the point that interest groups tried to make this atrocity into something that fit their own political agenda:
The most striking thing about the reaction to Orlando is how speedily observers made it about themselves; how swiftly they marshalled this massacre to political ends, whether to the traditional political ends of promoting right or left agendas or to the ends of the new politics of identity and its obsession with cultivating narratives of victimhood. The bodies were still warm when political ghouls on the left were claiming the massacre as proof that we need greater gun control and clampdowns on homophobia, and political ghouls on the right were using it to push their case for greater border controls and clampdowns on Islamist speech. From across the spectrum, people used the remains of that blood-stained gay club as a foundation for the construction of their shallow political case: a deeply ugly spectacle.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
This one is from the right. (Disclaimer: I don't own a gun, although I am thinking about it; and I don't belong to the NRA or any other such organization.) I think he makes some excellent points. That said, I am not crazy about the availability of assault rifles or the ease with which mentally ill people can get guns. We should figure out a way to do something about those problems, but both sides are soooo intractable.
Lashing out at a familiar bogeyman, the NRA, is far easier than looking our real enemy in the face.
http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...-isis-is-enemy
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
Control is the buzz word, but I think most people would be shocked at how difficult it is to enforce our current gun laws
As a police officer I have no way to verify if someone I stop is prohibited from owning a firearm due to something like a mental illness.
With a lot of effort I can sometimes determine if someone is restricted for past criminal history, but it's a very confusing and difficult task.
Then we have to get a conviction, which now days is very hard. Jury's often acquit if there aren't fingerprints and DNA on weapons, even if we physically took the weapon from the suspect.
There are ideas out there, such as a license like a driver license that is verified yearly. This license wouldn't track what weapons you own or buy, it would simply alert authorities that you're legally allowed to own a weapon. But even something like this is too much for many.
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Not knowing much about guns, I defer to others as to whether this article is accurate:
The Next Time Someone Calls an AR-15 an Assault Rifle, Show Them This
http://www.ijreview.com/2016/06/6279...m_content=guns
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
The legislative definition of an assault rifle or weapon is so convoluted that it is a losing argument to try to classify them. Simply put it this way, there isn't a single law enforcement agency in this country that arms their soldiers or first responders with the same weapon that is legally available to most Americans and generally referred to as an AR-15 or sport rifle.
We're up to snuff, we never bluff, we're game for any fuss. Or at least we used to be.
Huh?
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's my understanding that the military, SWAT, etc use select-fire rifles.
We're up to snuff, we never bluff, we're game for any fuss. Or at least we used to be.
Military has select fire.
Some SWAT teams do, although most select fire weapons on SWAT are sub guns, not rifles.
The vast majority of the law enforcement officers in the US have the same AR's or shotguns sold at any gun store, if that. Many don't have any long gun as many departments make officers purchase their own weapons.
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I'm not sure what the point of the article is. It seems to be saying "he didn't use an assault rifle so a ban on assault rifles wouldn't have affected Matten's purchasing habits". While true that makes the case that any ban should reach down to any semi-automatic large capacity rifle.
I think this town hall discussion by President Obama makes a salient point about the problems with any legislation about guns.
https://twitter.com/patrick4ont/stat...29536469082112
People need to quit caring about the firing mechanism. Even a semi auto rifle can be fired very quickly, 30 rounds in several seconds
It's the muzzle velocity of a rifle that makes it deadly. Rifle rounds go right through most law enforcement vests, through car doors, walls etc. And a rifle round does much more damage to a human body.
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President Canute and Orlando: Barack Obama discovers too late that he cannot order the tide of war to recede.
Quite critical of President O.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
This is a fine piece of writing and very balanced, I think:
Banning Guns and Muslims Isn’t the Answer to Orlando
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
Great speech by Utah's Lt. Governor at last night's vigil -- at about 38:00.
https://medium.com/@coxsp/tribute-to...b3f#.ymcfy9ppz
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
"It'd be nice to please everyone but I thought it would be more interesting to have a point of view." -- Oscar Levant
"After 9/11 and the Boston Bombings, Americans grieved together and comforted each other. They resolved to fight their attackers as one nation. Insofar as there was partisan dissension, it was mostly contained to cranks on either side. But the attacks at San Bernardino and Orlando have yielded an altogether different response, dominated by hostility, mistrust, and outrageous partisan attacks. Part of this is because the latter two attacks took place during a hotly-contested election season that has brought fevered populism to the fore on both sides of the aisle. But perhaps the most important reason Americans have been divided, rather than united, in the face of terror over the last year is simply because the terrorists elected to kill their victims with bullets. If Omar Mateen had planted Tsarnaev-style pressure-cooker bombs in the crowded Pulse nightclub on Saturday night, he may well have claimed just as many casualties. But the attack would not have immediately set off a political firestorm over gun control.
"Guns occupy a critical space in America’s increasingly acerbic culture wars, a manifestation of the broader social convection currents taking place below the surface. For Jacksonians who are losing faith in the ability of established institutions to preserve order, the Second Amendment is a bulwark against totalitarian movements, like Islamism, that would undermine American liberty. Under this deeply held view, attacks by ISIS-enthusiasts strengthen, rather than weaken, the case for gun rights. But for cosmopolitan liberals, gun rights are an anachronism—a symbol of all the wrong-headed views espoused by working class whites. Set these two warring camps against each other in the context of an ongoing terror threat, and you push an already divided society even further down the path of tribalism and fracture.
"The attackers in Orlando and San Bernardino accomplished something the attackers in Boston and New York didn’t: They drove a wedge between patriotic Americans, and managed to ensure that our grieving over the dead was polluted from the outset by a din of vicious political assaults. By any measure, they and their fellow travelers must consider this a great success. Perhaps terrorists who choose to carry out their massacres with guns are actually “taking advantage” of American society in a rather different way than many liberals think."
http://www.the-american-interest.com...-nation-apart/
"It's men in shorts." -- Rick Majerus
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
Now Can Big Data Fight Terror?
We need comments from Rocker and other techno-geeks (I use that term with love).
http://www.wsj.com/articles/now-can-...ror-1465943758
"It's men in shorts." -- Rick Majerus
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
Congress wouldn't fund such a project after the NRA freaks out.
A congressman attempted to talk about research into gun control on Monday, and Paul Ryan immediately shut him down on parliamentary procedures before he could even complete a sentence.
There is no way that a big data project investigating guns would ever see the light of day in Congress. If it is going to happen it will need to be privately funded (or at a university but without federal grants).
Last edited by NorthwestUteFan; 06-17-2016 at 12:00 PM.
Gen. McChrystal pens an op-Ed piece.
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/06/17....co/xygThdN9SK
Stavridis: The Front Line is in Cyberspace
Also: "Take a deep breath, look at the tactical, don't throw away a strategic advantage."
http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/49446...-clips/daytime
"It'd be nice to please everyone but I thought it would be more interesting to have a point of view." -- Oscar Levant
I am curious to see how many here will dismiss this editorial simply because of the author's identity.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/dick-che...ine-1403046522
"It's men in shorts." -- Rick Majerus
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
I didn't look to see who wrote it. I dismissed it simply because of the poster's identity.
"Rarely has a U.S. president been so wrong about so much at the expense of so many...".
Did he forget about George Bush somehow? That is some astonishing hubris on the part of a man who should probably face a war crimes tribunal for his role in breaking that part world.
Did he somehow forget that he led the charge to depose Sunni Baathist leader Saddam Hussein (who had previously kept the more militant groups under control through tremendous force), which created the power vacuum under which the Sunni Baathist ISIL rose to power? Did he forget his role in claiming Iraq had obtained WMDs, and that a quick military action in Iraq would lead to peace in the Middle East, when in fact it led to the deaths of half s million Iraqis and unleashed hell? Did he somehow forget that the puppet regime he pushed to install in Iraq was incredibly corrupt and led to further instability in the region? Does he somehow not realize the level of intervention that would have been required to change the Iraqi regime again to install a government who WANTED a large US military presence to 'maintain the peace'?
Dick Cheney needs to eat a huge helping of shut the fuck up when it comes to Iraq.
Last edited by NorthwestUteFan; 06-19-2016 at 09:23 AM.
I didn't look to see who wrote it. I dismissed it simply because of the poster's identity.
Me too. Cheney has no credibility at all and should just go silent into that good night. Now the State Dept. dissenting memo is a different question.
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