I think this is right. The rivalry has got to be very unpleasant for the coaches, if not the players. The national press seems to revel in the "Holy War" aspect of it, but there's much about it that's ugly. Kodiak is at a stage and stature where he can say, "who needs this toxicity?" Even more so for someone who's from out of state and not Mormon.Originally Posted by concerned
One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.
--Albert Einstein
The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.
--Richard Dawkins
Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.
--Philo
UBYU.JPG
Maybe Kodiak was taking the discussions from Dave Rose and things didn't go well. Who is to say?
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Same question I posed to LaUte: what toxicity? Doesn't that toxicity exist in all rivalries.
One of the funniest aspects of this has been the national media jumping on this and with the exception of Jay Bilas, have universally condemned Larry for his decision. What a load of crap. I get it though. College basketball brings so few eyeballs until march that these national media guys need every little scrap they can get. Hardly any of them said more than a line or two about the game last month. Just like our local media hacks, this is an opportunity for them to stick their chests out and try to stir the pot for a couple of days. Come next November/December, it will be recycled locally, probably almost nothing nationally, and we will all move on.
It looks like Chris Hill will attend the weekly presser with Larry next week to address this situation. No doubt Gordon Monson, that noble servant of justice and truth will be there to hold Larry accountable. I hope Larry tells him its nice of him to show up and then dismisses anything else he says.
It's the religious aspect and the (closely related) Utah culture that makes it especially toxic. This is not a knock on Utah at all. It's just reality, IMO, and it's tiresome. I know you disagree, but I respect your right to be wrong.
The Guv? To the locals...does he regularly weigh In on stuff like this? Id be surprised if so. This is a big deal, and it's obvious LK and CH effed up.....taking body blow after body blow.
They need to take their medicine, walk this back, and play the game.
I thought the guys on PTI would eviscerate K, but they both agreed with his decision.
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“It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.”
Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.
While I disagree that they effed this up, The governor does occasionally weigh in on sports topics. The funniest thing to me is a bit I heard on ksl radio today. Some of our state leaders are apparently going to try and take this matter upon themselves and force the U into this game. Yeah...........no.
SoCal,
I think your criticism of Chris Hill is probably fair but for different reasons. This was a Larry decision and Hill backed him - just as it's being represented. And while KC Cougar may want to think there are other reasons, in Larry's mind/opinion it does come down to player safety. Are there some ancillary issues - sure, but I think he tried to summarize his reason in his statement.
What I wish Hill would have done is call Larry into his office and tried to talk him out of it. Even if he started with a statement saying that he'd back him but then tried to discuss some other alternatives. What if Larry comes out and says - we'll finish the contract with BYU next season but then I think it's time for a hiatus unless we can get a few things squared away. Another alternative to this would be to voice his concerns to the press (especially if they fell on deaf ears at BYU as it appears to be) and threaten to cancel the game if he remains unsatisfied after a conversation/meeting in the off season. There are thoughtful ways to deal with something like this and Chris dropped the ball in offering thoughtful leadership to his coach.
I know there are many among us who can take or leave the rivalry. I like it - in both sports. I think it could become more positive with better leadership and attitudes from both sides. Certainly, both Rose and Holmoe have shown some real childishness in being drawn into this by the press in the last 24 hours so maybe neither side really has the capacity to approach the ideal I have in mind. I thought Larry did and I've been optimistic with the Kalani/Ty/Ed triumvirate on the football side that relationships there would improve the rivalry. Unfortunately, I think the adults in charge on both sides of the rivalry have gotten so myopic that they are incapable of having thoughtful conversations.
I heard Speaker of the House Greg Hughes on KSL, and he didn't say they were going to try to force Utah into playing. What he did say is that he sees this as a "disturbing pattern" that has developed with Dr. Hill and Utah. He specifically referenced how Utah has refused to play Weber State since the beat down the Wildcats put on the Utes in 2011 while continuing to play other Big Sky teams at greater expense to Utah.
He went on to say that when one public institution in the State joins a conference that generates significantly more revenue than they did before, and continues to act with "arrogance and hubris," that it would be reasonable for the State Legislature to evaluate how public money is distributed among the State schools.
When did Larry change his mind about what he calls good, old-fashioned basketball? The rivalry is the kind of basketball he thrived on as a player and has remarked on fondly as a coach. You really think Larry is concerned about player safety??
And what exactly has Holmoe done that has been childish? He tweeted that he thought it was ridiculous that the series has been canceled. End of quote. Has there been something else that I missed?
I wonder what the cougar/ute breakdown of his voting constituency looks like?
eyerollsmiley2.png
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
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Yes, i believe that would have been the right move. I don't think it's too late for that. Unfortunate, either way we have egg on our face.
I have no idea. I also don't expect that anything will come of it.
Isn't that enough KC? Don't get drawn into it. I know it's a little thing but I expect a lot of Holmoe. I like him. I like the way he carries himself. Note, that I'm keeping that in present tense; but I think we get an indication through these little things of passions being too high on both sides. BYU has no right to be defensive. Their conduct - regardless of what offenses you want to bring up and charge the U with - gives them no high ground.
The uproar over canceling the games only proves the point that people / players / teams were taking this single non-conf. game waaay too seriously.
I would much rather see the Utes beat Arizona on the road than the byu in Provo. If playing the byu prepares the Utes for that, then they should play. That's the only upside for me - does the game get the Utes ready for conference play? (this year: apparently no.)
If the distraction & the shenanigans & the postgame hangover from playing the byu hurt the team's progress, then they should cancel it.
I'm all about the conference.
σοφῷ ἀνδρὶ Ἑλλὰς πάντα.
-- Flavius Philostratus, Life of Apollonius 1.35.2.
Just watched the segment. Pretty interesting.
"Don't apologize; it's not your fault. It's my fault for overestimating your competence."
This is going to help.
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Godwin's Law still holds true.This is going to help.
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"Don't apologize; it's not your fault. It's my fault for overestimating your competence."
lol..you have like 15 non conference games and 10 or so are 200-300 rpi level.....but you couldnt possibly keep a contact for one more good ooc gameThe uproar over canceling the games only proves the point that people / players / teams were taking this single non-conf. game waaay too seriously.
I would much rather see the Utes beat Arizona on the road than the byu in Provo. If playing the byu prepares the Utes for that, then they should play. That's the only upside for me - does the game get the Utes ready for conference play? (this year: apparently no.
If the distraction & the shenanigans & the postgame hangover from playing the byu hurt the team's progress, then they should cancel it.
I'm all about the conference.
Only if it's worth it.
Is it really worth being such a fake-huge game early in the season? Is it worth dealing with Danny Ainge throwback jerseys & media hype & idiot fans (both sides) & throwing punches?
Maybe, if it helps the team tune up for Conference play.
Maybe not, if the distractions and the bullshit outweigh the benefits.
BYU fans are complaining like a spurned lover. Have some dignity, people. Go get a new rival for awhile.
Isn't there a WCC team that pushes your buttons, some St. Mary's or USD that merits busting out the Danny Ainge throwback jerseys & the light sticks???
Sheesh.
σοφῷ ἀνδρὶ Ἑλλὰς πάντα.
-- Flavius Philostratus, Life of Apollonius 1.35.2.
Where can we find the segment? (I'm a newbie to watching PTI.)
Never mind, I ran across it:
Utah right to suspend rivalry with BYU?
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=14525988
Last edited by LA Ute; 01-07-2016 at 06:09 PM.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
Fox Sports take:
Man, this Utah-BYU rivalry is really out of control
http://www.foxsports.com/college-bas...control-010616
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
And heeeere's that Greg Hughes guy:
https://audioboom.com/boos/4034331-h...-state-capitol
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
At first I liked what Rose had to say on 1280 but then he started coming off as petty and whiny too. Best way to handle this on his side is to say, "I don't agree with it, it is offensive, but they've got to do what they've got to do. We're big boys and have games to play and will always play all challengers and that is all I have to say."
He admitted that this happened almost immediately after the game and they say on it until now... Certainly to distract from the holiday hire.
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So, this Greg Hughes blowhard. Isn't this the guy that was in the middle of the fisticuffs up in the rameumptum scholarship box during the BYU game a few years back? The one with rich people and entitled politicians throwing haymakers over a football game? The one that ended with an uppity woman with a bloody lip and a hard earned lesson? I swear it was this guy, but I wasn't there, obviously.
if it wasn't this guy, my apologies to the Hughes family. If it was this guy, he needs to have a big glass of shut the hell up.
Utah not playing Weber and USU? He may have a point, or at least authority to say something about that. Utah playing a private school? Nope. Regardless of what he is saying, Greg Hughes needs more than a glass of that stuff.
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