I'm in the NC Triangle Region (Chapel Hill, Raleigh & Durham)Originally Posted by Applejack
I'm in the NC Triangle Region (Chapel Hill, Raleigh & Durham)
"Be a philosopher. A man can compromise to gain a point. It has become apparent that a man can, within limits, follow his inclinations within the arms of the Church if he does so discreetly." - The Walking Drum
"And here’s what life comes down to—not how many years you live, but how many of those years are filled with bullshit that doesn’t amount to anything to satisfy the requirements of some dickhead you’ll never get the pleasure of punching in the face." – Adam Carolla
I got tired of staying up for the 11:00 kicks/tip offs.
“It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.”
Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.
A completely reasonable reason to move across the country in my mind.I got tired of staying up for the 11:00 kicks/tip offs.
I really need the Pac 12 to make a deal with Direct TV so I can get both it and Sunday ticket.
Ok, sorry for the threadjack, back to BYU being nutzo.
“It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.”
Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.
You dont need sunday ticket... you just need the redzone...
"Be a philosopher. A man can compromise to gain a point. It has become apparent that a man can, within limits, follow his inclinations within the arms of the Church if he does so discreetly." - The Walking Drum
"And here’s what life comes down to—not how many years you live, but how many of those years are filled with bullshit that doesn’t amount to anything to satisfy the requirements of some dickhead you’ll never get the pleasure of punching in the face." – Adam Carolla
That contact high is messing with your cool meter
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http://www.sltrib.com/news/3773615-1...-is-threatened
The Deputy should be fired and charged for accessing documents he had no reason to access. It's even worse that he's a BYU employee (or former) and believes it's his duty as law enforcement to hand BYU documents
The fact that the DA himself dismissed the charge against the deputy using information he won't disclose bothers me. The fact that he got slapped on the wrist really bothers me.
BYU should fire whoever accepted the report and whoever is using what is an illegally obtained report to harass a victim.
This is absolutely deplorable. The quotes from BYU's reps are scary at best.
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Last edited by Diehard Ute; 04-15-2016 at 12:11 PM.
Has this been posted elsewhere here?
American Bar Association advances religious discrimination investigation on BYU
This one focuses on the law school. I'm torn here because I generally think of the ABA as a communist organization. (I kid, I kid. Mostly.)
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
I mentioned that book because it urges women to fight to the death rather than be raped, because rape is worse than death apparently.Several pages into this thread and no one has mentioned the trauma received from reading the Miracle of Forgiveness as a teen? What's wrong with you people, don't you want to know that Bigfoot is actually Cain?
But that book also has the gem that young men need to avoid masturbation, because it invariably leads to mutual masturbation, which leads to homosexuality. Frankly if that were true the lgbt percentage of the population would be closer to 97% than 5%.
In SWK's defense, he did later in life state that he went too far when he wrote that book (iirc early 1960s).
Of course my bishop still had it on the shelf when I was in his office a few weeks ago. One of these days in will ask him if he ever really read it.
For sure it was an embellishment added by well-meaning leaders, and not a part of an actual manual.
My wife heard it in the form of, "If you have sex at any time before marriage then no worthy priesthood holder will want you. They won't want to buy a car that was driven by somebody else." This is a form of slut shaming (a term which I abhor, but it is the common usage). This classroom situation was very uncomfortable for my wife as a 15 yr-old, and made worse because the friend sitting beside her in the class that day had been raped by an acquaintance earlier that year. This was not common knowledge, but it didn't relieve the poor girl from feeling entirely worthless in the eyes of God.
The underlying message is that sex and sexuality belongs within the bonds of marriage only, and that a woman's sexuality itself is not controlled by the woman herself but rather by something outside of her (e.g. her parents, or an institution, or her husband). And if she attempts to own that for herself then she can get shamed for it. Girls at very young ages are taught to dress 'modestly', and even 5 yr-old girls can get told to cover their shoulders. All of the responsibility for controlling the boys' sexuality seems to be placed on the shoulders of the girls, with seemingly minimal reciprocal effort given to teach the boys to control themselves.
This byu situation is horribly messed up. But it isn't too far away from logical extensions of culturally-accepted thoughts, ideas, and gender roles. In fact the gender roles are effectively cemented in place by the Proclamation on the Family.
I think this is also related to the notion that women should get a good education so they can stay home and raise the kids, and not so they can go out into the world and have a career. The stay-at-home Mom is preferred, and the career mom is often a second-class citizen at church. Ruth and Dale Renlund are close friends with my parents, and that type of shunning over the years was very hard on Ruth (who is an attorney).
Last edited by NorthwestUteFan; 04-16-2016 at 02:29 AM.
Roger that. This was one of my favorite benefits of swapping the Eastern for the Pacific time zone.I got tired of staying up for the 11:00 kicks/tip offs.
You are living in the wrong generation and talking to the wrong people if you think that way.
Can't buy it at DesBook any more.
"It's men in shorts." -- Rick Majerus
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
As of about 5 years ago.
The problem is in quotes like these:
"Even in a forced contact such as rape or incest, the injured one is greatly outraged. If she has not cooperated and contributed to the foul deed, she is of course in a more favorable position. There is no condemnation where there is no voluntary participation. It is better to die in defending one's virtue than to live having lost it without a struggle."
-Spencer W Kimball, Miracle of Forgiveness.
Statements like this and others institutionalized the 'blame the victim' mentality, which still exists in that backward hellhole of Provo. If the victim looked provocative, or dressed sexy, or smiled the wrong way, then she was partly to blame according to SWK.
Last edited by NorthwestUteFan; 04-16-2016 at 09:34 AM.
Wrong. It is all bad and you should feel bad.
That's how we see you on this board. We keep a special dossier on you that contains all of the bad stuff you've posted. True, it's only 1%, but....
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
Yes. Our chastity focus has evolved into a focus on modesty. Nip it in the bud, sorta speak. I remember there being a story in The Friend about a young girl shopping for new clothes with her mom and picking up a cute tank top but getting a bad feeling and moved on the something more appropriate. Or even more comically, when they added cap sleeves to the two angels in Bloch's The Resurrection. Of course the women had to cover up those shoulders while the Savior was okay in his chest baring toga. http://archive.sltrib.com/story.php?...desty.html.csp
But this isn't the first time the church got caught holding the cap sleeve. https://bycommonconsent.com/2012/09/...is-a-bad-idea/
I was in a joint YM/YW 5th Sunday lesson taught by a member of the bishopric about a year ago. This guy is also a high school principal and therefore really dialed in to what's going on with the youth. Which made his comments all the more unfortunate. Part of the lesson focused towards the YM about honoring the priesthood by being worthy to hold it. He then turned to the YW and asked them to do their part in keeping the YM worthy by dressing modestly. I'm embarrassed to admit that I kind of froze and didn't interject at the time. It was awhile ago, but I'm remembering the phrase "walking porn." But the next Sunday, I made it very clear to my Teacher's quorum that they are absolutely responsible for all of their thoughts and actions, regardless.
I absolutely agree with this. But wouldn't you agree that the girls can make life a little easier for the boys by dressing modestly? Not in burkhas, mind you, but maybe just not showing off 95% of what they've got.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
its also convenient how they removed the "great and abominable whore" reference to the Catholic Church from Mormon Doctrine.
Someone had a vision that one day BYU would be in the WCC and that phrase might not go over to well
This would sound great if they spent even 1/3 of the time talking to the boys about modest dress that they do the girls.
With the boys we obsess about tats.
"It's men in shorts." -- Rick Majerus
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
When the boys start wearing John Stockton nut hugger shorts there'll be some 'splainin to do.
I spend more time with the young men where there is a ton of talk about respecting women. My BIL's ward the YM all wear pink ties to show that they respect women. I'm not usually for that sort of stuff (meaning making a production over things they should be doing anyway) but I thought it was cool they were emphasizing that.
It seems to me from hanging out with the young men over the past few years that they have bigger challenges than just dealing with the way LDS girls dress. Most of our young men here hardly know any LDS girls outside of their own ward anyway. Sancho is right.
"It's men in shorts." -- Rick Majerus
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
No, I can't agree with this.
If there's a car with engine idling and door wide open, I'd fully expect my son to walk by that car like it was shut down, and locked up as tight as a drum. And if he's a man with any character at all, it shouldn't be hard for him at all to not steal that car. Likewise with the girls dressed in a bikini at a pool party. Son.......keep your freaking hands to yourself!
“Children and dogs are as necessary to the welfare of the country as Wall Street and the railroads.” -- Harry S. Truman
"You never soar so high as when you stoop down to help a child or an animal." -- Jewish Proverb
"Three-time Pro Bowler Eric Weddle the most versatile, and maybe most intelligent, safety in the game." -- SI, 9/7/15, p. 107.
Not talking about hands, about minds. For teenage male believers who think they ought to make a decent effort to have what they (and many other believers) consider clean thoughts, immodestly dressed girls, as we define modesty, make that harder. I know you get this.
To me this is all about line-drawing for the faithful. I think even SU would agree that neither young men nor young women should show up at a Mutual pool party naked. So how much clothing is enough? And why is it enough?
Before anyone gets upset, there's no justification for sexual abuse of any kind. A female's choice of clothing does not implicate her or make her guilty or complicit in such abuse in any way. Period. Men are responsible for their own actions and thoughts. What I'm talking about has nothing to do with that. This is a spiritual matter for me and all the LDS leaders who talk about it. Here are the introductory paragraphs from the For the Strength of Youth pamphlet on this subject:
https://www.lds.org/youth/for-the-st...rance?lang=engYour body is sacred. Respect it and do not defile it in any way. Through your dress and appearance, you can show that you know how precious your body is. You can show that you are a disciple of Jesus Christ and that you love Him.
Prophets of God have continually counseled His children to dress modestly. When you are well groomed and modestly dressed, you invite the companionship of the Spirit and you can be a good influence on others. Your dress and grooming influence the way you and others act.
Never lower your standards of dress. Do not use a special occasion as an excuse to be immodest. When you dress immodestly, you send a message that is contrary to your identity as a son or daughter of God. You also send the message that you are using your body to get attention and approval.
Those are the basic beliefs. Many people (not you) get very upset about what the LDS Church teaches on this subject and want to start talking about chewed gum or licked cupcake analogies, but the church (not misguided YW or YM teachers) is urging its kids to aspire to a pretty high standard. That's religion. We all fall short of our spiritual aspirations. But we try.
"It's men in shorts." -- Rick Majerus
Last edited by LA Ute; 04-20-2016 at 12:43 PM.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
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