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Thread: Der Jakob Poeltl Thread

  1. #31
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UtahsMrSports View Post
    Someday i hope to be like you, Su.....always right, and with enough money that i can go around and do things to better mankind for free because gosh darn it im a good person.
    Its good to be SU.

    goodtobetheking.jpg

  2. #32
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    Wrong again.
    sarcasm_detector (1).jpg

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    There's some pretty heavy irony here.
    One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

    --Albert Einstein

    The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.

    --Richard Dawkins

    Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.

    --Philo

  4. #34
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    There's some pretty heavy irony here.
    Yep.

    ua-0511-366948-front.jpg

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  5. #35
    Malleus Cougarorum Solon's Avatar
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    Poetl to Toronto.
    Seems like a nice place to land - it's an up-and-coming team that could use a little size.
    σοφῷ ἀνδρὶ Ἑλλὰς πάντα.
    -- Flavius Philostratus, Life of Apollonius 1.35.2.

  6. #36
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Poeltl forced into playing and is not disappointing.

    http://m.ottawasun.com/2016/11/05/ra...ad-of-schedule

  7. #37
    Does anyone here still think that Poetl made the right decision? I was vilified as living comfortably and insensitive to the plight of this poor impoverished college kid. It was BS. Poetl has been a huge embarrassment. 2.1 ppg; he hasn't really even made the Raptors team. He's spent much of the season in the NBA minor leagues. What if he'd have stayed another year and now Pac 12 MVP, the Utes Pac 12 champs and contending for a top seed? Kodiak has his weaknesses, but one of them isn't training big men.

    Nowadays it's all about money; actually, money quicker. But often it's just stunting, even if you're over 7 feet.
    One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

    --Albert Einstein

    The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.

    --Richard Dawkins

    Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.

    --Philo

  8. #38
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    Does anyone here still think that Poetl made the right decision? I was vilified as living comfortably and insensitive to the plight of this poor impoverished college kid. It was BS. Poetl has been a huge embarrassment. 2.1 ppg; he hasn't really even made the Raptors team. He's spent much of the season in the NBA minor leagues. What if he'd have stayed another year and now Pac 12 MVP, the Utes Pac 12 champs and contending for a top seed? Kodiak has his weaknesses, but one of them isn't training big men.

    Nowadays it's all about money; actually, money quicker. But often it's just stunting, even if you're over 7 feet.
    As I've said before here (to much derision) the NBA has ruined college basketball. Well, not ruined, but severely damaged it or at least changed the experience fundamentally. Dan Patrick is a huge critic of this.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    As I've said before here (to much derision) the NBA has ruined college basketball. Well, not ruined, but severely damaged it or at least changed the experience fundamentally. Dan Patrick is a huge critic of this.
    Yeah, it's nutty. We're all hoping for an Akot tomorrow, but if he's as good as we want him to be, we only get him for a year. I have no idea what duke will look like from year to year.

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    As I've said before here (to much derision) the NBA has ruined college basketball. Well, not ruined, but severely damaged it or at least changed the experience fundamentally. Dan Patrick is a huge critic of this.
    I don't think it's ruined it at all. The NC game last season was emblematic--possibly the greatest college game ever, and the winning team didn't have any one and dones, or maybe any NBA players. Fine, let the market rule. That's what I say about almost anything. I wish they wouldn't force players to play at least one year. The problem isn't the NBA. The problem is the shitty values that made it a purported no brainer for Poetl to leave. Nobody cares about anything but money now now now. It didn't hurt Tim Duncan, Tom Chambers, Jabber, Jordan, a whole bunch of players to play 3-4 years, and most of these one or two and dones including Poetl will never be worthy to be their vales. A lot of great NBA players over the years needed that full time in college to fully develop, including, for example, Andre Miller, Chambers, Van Horn.
    One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

    --Albert Einstein

    The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.

    --Richard Dawkins

    Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.

    --Philo

  11. #41
    It's too bad. Poetl could have been a special player.
    One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

    --Albert Einstein

    The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.

    --Richard Dawkins

    Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.

    --Philo

  12. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    It's too bad. Poetl could have been a special player.
    Pretty harsh, don't you think?

    He hasn't even finished his rookie season and he has topped out already?

  13. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by snafu View Post
    Pretty harsh, don't you think?

    He hasn't even finished his rookie season and he has topped out already?
    Yeah, the rush to judgment about a player that the raptors knew was a project seems unnecessary.

  14. #44
    I think the overwhelming sentiment wasn't that he was ready per se, but more so that if you're going to be a lottery pick, you have to go. His improvement from year one to year two was pretty great. I would've loved to see how he did with another off-season of Navy Seal training.
    “It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.”

    Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

  15. #45
    LOL at this thread. "Poeltl has been a huge embarrassment", and "Poeltl could have been a special player."

    Poeltl was Pac-12 POY, consensus AA, and top-10 pick. How is that not special? What else was there left for him to do at the collegiate level? It would have been a mistake for him to stay another year. The league/draft is not the same as it was 20 years ago. Take a look at the mock drafts for this year... there's one... ONE(!) upperclassman currently projected in the first round. Everyone one else is either a college freshman or sophomore (most are freshman), and a couple international guys. If you're a projected first rounder you should go. Especially if you're going to be a top-10/lottery pick like Poeltl.

    It takes young players like Poeltl time to get PT in the league, especially on a contender like the Raptors. Poeltl has a very bright future in the NBA, and writing him off this early is silly.

  16. #46
    Lok ivan Rabb who stayed too long

  17. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by 311ute View Post
    LOL at this thread. "Poeltl has been a huge embarrassment", and "Poeltl could have been a special player."

    Poeltl was Pac-12 POY, consensus AA, and top-10 pick. How is that not special? What else was there left for him to do at the collegiate level? It would have been a mistake for him to stay another year. The league/draft is not the same as it was 20 years ago. Take a look at the mock drafts for this year... there's one... ONE(!) upperclassman currently projected in the first round. Everyone one else is either a college freshman or sophomore (most are freshman), and a couple international guys. If you're a projected first rounder you should go. Especially if you're going to be a top-10/lottery pick like Poeltl.

    It takes young players like Poeltl time to get PT in the league, especially on a contender like the Raptors. Poeltl has a very bright future in the NBA, and writing him off this early is silly.
    I agree with everything here. Jakob would have cost himself a lot of money by staying--one year of playing for free vs earning, plus he goes later in the draft this year vs last. This year's draft is much deeper, he's likely going in the teens rather than the top ten so his contract isn't worth as much. Plus, you have the constant devaluing of the traditional NBA big man, meaning that with each passing year there is less emphasis on drafting size and more on drafting shooting and skills.

    If you follow the NBA draft at all you know that there is a "deflation" for players that stay past a year or two in college. The model where you improve your stock with each year you stay in college is long gone. If you stay more than two years you are viewed as "old" and have nearly reached full potential (I think this idea is silly, but it is how NBA GMs view it and theirs is the vote that matters).

    Jakob has done some nice things when he has gotten minutes, but he's on a team that sees it's championship window lasting for a couple more years so they are in full "win now" mode. If he had gone to the Nets or Magic or Lakers he'd be playing a lot, putting up much better raw numbers but who knows how that would work for his long-term development.

    Now I've wasted a lot of words on SeattleUte's trolling, so congratulations I guess.

  18. #48
    One thing has been empirically proven, and that's that Jakob Poetl wasn't ready for the NBA. Maybe he'll get better, maybe he'll get ready for the NBA. (But I'd like to see a study, how many players go from 2.1 ppg and not really even qualifying for the varsity NBA team and ultimately amount to anything. AJ, maybe he was taken as a project, but would the Raptors spend a ninth pick on him if they could go back in time? I think not.)

    I'm aware of the take the money and run, piggy, short-term analyses that dictated him going in 2016. But Whatever short-term analysis people make about is he better going in 2016 or 2017 or 2018, he'd be better off with a long, productive NBA career than as a short term bust. No? That's true not only financially but also intangibly. No? I'm not talking about NBA all-star, as all the evidence seems to indicate that's not in his future; I'm talking about Bill Wennington productive NBA career, which I think is/was in the cards. So, would he have a better chance of achieving that where he's been the past year and where he is now, or with the Utes under Kodiak? That's the real question. Only the most cynical, short term, nihilistic, take the money and run, piggish outlook would dictate that this is not the real issue.
    Last edited by SeattleUte; 03-09-2017 at 10:54 AM.
    One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

    --Albert Einstein

    The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.

    --Richard Dawkins

    Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.

    --Philo

  19. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    One thing has been empirically proven, and that's that Jakob Poetl wasn't ready for the NBA. Maybe he'll get better, maybe he'll get ready for the NBA. (But I'd like to see a study, how many players go from 2.1 ppg and not really even qualifying for the varsity NBA team and ultimately amount to anything. AJ, maybe he was taken as a project, but would the Raptors spend a ninth pick on him if they could go back in time? I think not.)
    Have you followed Gordon Hayward's career? He averaged 5 points per game in his rookie season. Now seven years later he is finally an all-star. It took some time but he developed and so can JP. I can understand the mentality that you want to develop AND get paid at the same time.

  20. #50
    Poeltl's problem is he was drafted by Toronto, whose coach hates playing young players.

  21. #51
    Poetl traded to the Spurs as part of the Kawhi Leonard deal. Good luck to "the huge embarrassment."

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