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Thread: 2019 Basketball Recruiting Thread

  1. #181
    Isn't Nick Emery well into his 30s by now?

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    Speaking to a friend I trust who has a pretty good take on Utah basketball has watched the Finnish kid Mikael Jantunen play fairly recently and claims he is the real deal and expect he will be an immediate contributor. He was pretty excited about him, and he is in no way a homer in that regard (FWIW, he was the guy to temper my expectations for this last year - he believed it was possible we may not have had a winning record).

    Anyway, I thought that was worth reporting.
    I’m also bullish on the Finn, as well as MVK. Don’t you all remember David Foster as a frosh? That was a horrible defensive team (Giac’s last year, IIRC) and all he did was set the school record for blocked shots in a single season. If those two can exceed expectations slightly, we could get past losing the Headband.

  3. #183
    Although I like Jayce and believe that a healthy Jayce would make the Utes a better team, the thing that concerns me most about him leaving is that it continues a pattern that cannot persist if Utah basketball is going to become an actual program as opposed to a series of remodels with no real infrastructure.

  4. #184
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    Although I like Jayce and believe that a healthy Jayce would make the Utes a better team, the thing that concerns me most about him leaving is that it continues a pattern that cannot persist if Utah basketball is going to become an actual program as opposed to a series of remodels with no real infrastructure.
    Well said.

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    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    Although I like Jayce and believe that a healthy Jayce would make the Utes a better team, the thing that concerns me most about him leaving is that it continues a pattern that cannot persist if Utah basketball is going to become an actual program as opposed to a series of remodels with no real infrastructure.
    Not counting Larry's first year, I found 47 unique players that have received a scholarship, not counting any class of 2019 players. Of those, I found that 28 have graduated (16), are currently on the roster (6), left early for the NBA draft (2) or retired (4). The remaining 19 transferred. Its not available data, but it would be fascinating to see of those 20, how many were flat out roster cuts for talent or disciplinary reasons versus how many could have stayed but left to pursue other opportunities. Looking at the list, I have 6 guys I consider roster cuts, 4 discipline issues, and 9 guys looking for a better opportunity. (Strictly my opinion, as such, I aint naming names.).

    So let me bring this back around to the point here. According to the trib, Jayce is leaving because of Larry's coaching style (can see that, he is certainly not for everyone) and that he wants a larger role on offense. This second reason is fairly absurd. So I would ask anyone who takes the player's side here: What was Larry supposed to do? IMO, Jayce was being used perfectly last year. A really good position defender who rebounded like crazy and shot a high percentage when he could be set up or grab an offensive board. Absolutely unplayable in end of game situations due to free throw shooting. So again, what do you want Larry to do in that situation? BTW, though its a minority of cases, Jayce is (from my understanding) not the first person to bring a fairly absurd request to Larry thanks to someone advising the player. ( to be fair, we don't know if this was an ultimatum for a bigger role, or if twas a suggestion, though I think its pretty easy to read between the lines).

    Nobody is going to argue that roster turnover is a good thing, or even that its "no big deal". Nationwide it seems to grow every year and we are, under Larry, on the higher end of the distribution. I think the bigger criticism here is recruiting. We got very little from our 2015 and 2016 classes. That has killed us and forced somewhat of a vicious cycle of guys transferring, replacements aren't good enough because its too late in the process and then they are sent packing, etc. 2017 was a bit better with Tillman and so far so good for 2018. I expect 2019 to be perhaps even a bit better.

    Finally, I just don't see anyone who left who would have significantly raised the level of our program had they stayed and I expect Jayce will add to that list. Ill allow the possibility of Daniels, but thats another story for another day. Again, its all about recruiting and we missed a lot in critical years.

  6. #186
    I completely agree with your thoughts on Jayce leaving. Where I disagree is saying that his leaving doesn't significantly impact the level of our program. Over the next few years that's a fair statement but he just has one year left and his leaving hurts us significantly. Jayce has the opportunity to be a 10/10 player next season and a terrific post defender. His presence in the paint will be missed. Now, if he doesn't buy in to being a consummate role player then we're better off; but just on the surface this is a tough loss. I don't blame anyone on the coaching staff for it. Jayce is either getting horrible advice or he has a very unrealistic opinion of himself.

    I do hope the coaching staff has said something like this to Jayce: "You want more touches? Then let's get in the gym and help you continue improving your free throw shot, help you get comfortable from the free throw line extended and get you two go to post moves."

    Based on my knowledge of this staff, those kinds of conversations aren't happening because the staff does not have strong player relationships nor are they invested enough in player development. I know, here I go again on player development.

    Anyway, I wish Jayce had the character and leadership to see how embracing his role from last year as a senior while working his fanny off to improve a few offensive areas could be the piece that gets this team back to the tournament.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Utebiquitous View Post
    I do hope the coaching staff has said something like this to Jayce: "You want more touches? Then let's get in the gym and help you continue improving your free throw shot, help you get comfortable from the free throw line extended and get you two go to post moves."

    Based on my knowledge of this staff, those kinds of conversations aren't happening because the staff does not have strong player relationships nor are they invested enough in player development. I know, here I go again on player development.
    I agree with your post, but these two paragraphs are a bit hard to swallow. You are painting a picture of a lazy staff that just shows up on game day and says "Go get 'em!" Even though you are the insider, and I am a nobody, I just don't believe that our staff has never worked with Jayce on his game. In fact, the evidence points to the opposite. Almost every player that has come through this staff has improved immensely during their college career. Kuzma, Loverdige, Barefield, Rawson, etc. Maybe not Poeltl and Wright. They were both so good when they arrived that I can't say I noticed huge leaps forward from them.

  8. #188
    Sancho,
    Our staff doesn't just show up on game day. They work pretty hard. I think they are good at game prep and I actually think Larry is a good coach and a good man. I just don't think they're working player development near enough. I also think this is a player issue. Jayce's issues reside more with Jayce than anyone else. I've also witnessed Chris Jones working with Jayce quite a bit a few years ago. I do know that it's tailed off. I don't know who's more responsible. I'm not that close to the program anymore.

    My viewpoint on player development is easily criticized. I would argue it needs to work its way into practices more - besides a culture that expects players to work a few hours a day outside of practice. Neither of those things happen a lot at Utah right now. The former is tough because a coach only has so many hours and so much to get done from a team perspective. The latter is a big deal. I don't know that it's been a part of the culture since Majerus. Judkins and Daniels were a big part of that culture primarily because of their willingness to work with players outside of practice. That's probably my biggest problem with our staff. I would never label them as lazy - they are far from it. I just want them to be a part of the solution that gets players working harder. I'm hearing that we have a few players that are very committed to getting better and Rylan Jones will help this a lot as well. He is a gym rat who works and works and works.

    Enough of my pontificating.

  9. #189
    Juco guard alfonso plummer is in town this weekend. 6'1, 175. Hit about 45% from downtown on a high volume (had around 500 attempts in his two years at juco.)

    Less than one assist per game. Has also visited Texas State and Portland State.

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahsMrSports View Post
    Juco guard alfonso plummer is in town this weekend. 6'1, 175. Hit about 45% from downtown on a high volume (had around 500 attempts in his two years at juco.)

    Less than one assist per game. Has also visited Texas State and Portland State.
    Yikes
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  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    Yikes
    I second that.

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahsMrSports View Post
    Juco guard alfonso plummer is in town this weekend. 6'1, 175. Hit about 45% from downtown on a high volume (had around 500 attempts in his two years at juco.)

    Less than one assist per game. Has also visited Texas State and Portland State.
    Per Twitter, he will announce tomorrow. I'm unsure of whether he has an "offer" or an "Offer", but I suppose time we'll tell.

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by Applejack View Post
    I second that.
    We got spoiled with a few late season additions that were successful. I'd guess that 90% of late season additions in college basketball end up doing nothing. They are just roster filler. I guess grad transfers are a different story, but it's primarily power programs that are going to benefit from that type of free agency.

    At this point, our team is pretty much set. If we bring in someone else, it likely won't be a difference maker. Larry's hopes (our hopes) are now squarely on either Rylan Jones being ready or on Both Gach making a sophomore leap.

    That said, the kid hit 45% from outside. He can at least shoot. Nothing "yikes" about that.

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahsMrSports View Post
    Has also visited Texas State and Portland State.
    I don't know him from lebron, but people that do (coaches) are saying that he ain't all that.

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by Applejack View Post
    I don't know him from lebron, but people that do (coaches) are saying that he ain't all that.
    But can he be the 13th guy on the team, scrimmage hard during practice, maintain a good attitude without getting playing time, and get good grades? Those things would make him a decent use of our last scholarship. Anything more than that is a bonus.

  16. #196
    I'm not convinced he has a commitable offer. But we shall see.

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    But can he be the 13th guy on the team, scrimmage hard during practice, maintain a good attitude without getting playing time, and get good grades? Those things would make him a decent use of our last scholarship. Anything more than that is a bonus.
    A little early to commit the final scholie to this guy.

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    A little early to commit the final scholie to this guy.
    Don't get me wrong. I didn't say anything about him being our guy. I just said that, at this point, our expectations should be pretty low. We tried for some players who looked like great fits, and we missed. I don't think we're going to end up with anyone who will actually see the floor.

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Don't get me wrong. I didn't say anything about him being our guy. I just said that, at this point, our expectations should be pretty low. We tried for some players who looked like great fits, and we missed. I don't think we're going to end up with anyone who will actually see the floor.
    My expectations for this last scholie could not be lower. I would rather see it go to a walk-on for a year then a grad transfer who is not going to be a contributor.

    Vante Hendrix and the Mitchell kid who ultimately signed with SDSU became available later in the summer and I would rather wait to see if someone like that becomes available. If not, give it to a walk-on.

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    Vante Hendrix and the Mitchell kid who ultimately signed with SDSU became available later in the summer and I would rather wait to see if someone like that becomes available. If not, give it to a walk-on.
    That sounds like a reasonable plan, unless they think there's really something to like about this JUCO kid.

  21. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    My expectations for this last scholie could not be lower. I would rather see it go to a walk-on for a year then a grad transfer who is not going to be a contributor.

    Vante Hendrix and the Mitchell kid who ultimately signed with SDSU became available later in the summer and I would rather wait to see if someone like that becomes available. If not, give it to a walk-on.
    Agree. I hate to be that guy, but when we're talking about taking a kid whose other offers are Portland State and Texas State I feel like we're just getting a jump on identifying who is going to be one of the transfers after next season. Maybe this kid beats the odds a la Justin Bibbins but there's not much to base that on other than wishful thinking.

  22. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by UBlender View Post
    I hate to be that guy
    Well, we're all that guy, then, since we all seem to be sharing the same thoughts here.

  23. #203
    and..........hes a ute!

  24. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahsMrSports View Post
    and..........hes a ute!

  25. #205
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Schr-Ute View Post
    I’m going to say “meh,” and hope to be pleasantly surprised.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  26. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahsMrSports View Post
    I'm not convinced he has a commitable offer.
    You're two for two with this prediction lately.

  27. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by Applejack View Post
    You're two for two with this prediction lately.
    Ha! What was my other gem?

  28. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahsMrSports View Post
    Finally, I wouldn't be surprised if Wenzel has an "offer" and not an "Offer". Time will tell.

    (Sorry for the excessive posts. The edit post button just automatically deletes my post while Im in Chrome.)
    2/2

  29. #209
    We're done!

    Your 2019-20 Runnin' Utes:

    Guard: Jones, Gach, Brenchley, Gaskin, Plummer, Wenzel

    Forward: Allen, Tillman, Jantunen, Carlson, Battin

    Center: Thione, Van Komen

    Starting 5: Jones, Gach, Allen, Tillman, Thione

    Off the bench: 1-2 of the 4 guards, whoever can do something well (shoot, defend, ...), 1-2 of the forwards (Battin could lose minutes this year), and Van Komen. We usually end up with a 7-8 man rotation.

  30. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    We're done!

    Your 2019-20 Runnin' Utes:

    Guard: Jones, Gach, Brenchley, Gaskin, Plummer, Wenzel

    Forward: Allen, Tillman, Jantunen, Carlson, Battin

    Center: Thione, Van Komen

    Starting 5: Jones, Gach, Allen, Tillman, Thione

    Off the bench: 1-2 of the 4 guards, whoever can do something well (shoot, defend, ...), 1-2 of the forwards (Battin could lose minutes this year), and Van Komen. We usually end up with a 7-8 man rotation.
    If we have a rotation of 7-8, I'd be surprised if Van Komen is ready for the top8. He looks like a bit of a project.

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