I must not be a very good person because I have zero sympathy for this guy. Could United have handled it better? Absolutely, but they didn't really have that many options and I don't think that the way they chose to handle it was all that bad anyway.
Amen Scratch. I'll take it further. So, because he doesn't want to be inconvenienced in any way, he inconveniences all of the people on the plane who now have to get back off the plane and wait around for 3 hours. He also inconveniences all of the flyers in Louisville who need a crew that needed to get on that flight. All because he refuses to take a later flight. Then, when asked to leave he acts like a goddamned two year old and screams and holds on to his chair.Originally Posted by Scratch
Imagine if every passenger acted like him. The airports would come to a stand still.
Every one of us has had to eat a shit sandwich on occasion while flying. I did it last week in Atlanta when my flight got cancelled. This guy is complete fucking turd.
United should have never let him on the plane in the first place and should have run its lottery before anybody got on. But it makes me sick to watch America feel sorry for this clown. When he was asked to get off, he should have gotten off. Every person on this site would have grumbled and then left the plane (just like the other passengers who were asked to leave, did). Because we are human beings.
The reality is, too many people are flying. Airlines overbook to make money which in turns keeps flight costs down. If we regulated this stuff, prices would go up. I'd still fly but many of the John Does who feel sorry for this guy would be priced out of flying.
Of course, today, we now learn that the docs is a convicted felon. How can you be surprised by this given his conduct?
Last edited by Two Utes; 04-11-2017 at 10:22 AM.
I couldn't agree with two utes any more. Passenger got everything he deserved.
Investors don't agree with you ... 1.4 billion dollar stock drop:
http://fortune.com/2017/04/11/united...es-stock-drop/
And now, United Airlines doesn't agree:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.64399f9c1f33
There is plenty of blame and punishment to go around.Investors don't agree with you ... 1.4 billion dollar stock drop:
http://fortune.com/2017/04/11/united...es-stock-drop/
And now, United Airlines doesn't agree:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.64399f9c1f33
United is to be blamed for it's policies and not increasing their offer for volunteers. Their punishment is a PR nightmare, and dropping stock prices (but they'll bounce back).
The security/police is to be blamed for their brutal enforcement techniques. They have already suspended one of their personnel.
The passenger is to be blamed for behaving like a ornery 4 year old. His punishment in addition to his bloody face, is his reputation is being smeared all over social media (for both being petulant and kind of a scumbag).
“To me there is no dishonor in being wrong and learning. There is dishonor in willful ignorance and there is dishonor in disrespect.” James Hatch, former Navy Seal and current Yale student.
I don't disagree that the man behaved poorly, but we are starting to get more of the story. United didn't give him all of the information, at least according to witnesses on the plane:
"The man who ended up bloodied and screaming Sunday night had initially agreed to get off the plane, passenger Jayse Anspach said. "Him and his wife, they volunteered initially," Anspach said. "But once they found out that the next flight wasn't until (Monday) at 2:30 p.m., he said, 'I can't do that. I gotta be at work.' So he sat back down." The harder the officers tried to get the man to leave, the harder the man insisted he stay.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/11/travel...ght/index.html
I agree that many passengers these days act like idiots and are oblivious to their behaviour. But the airlines must shoulder much of blamed for a lot of what is going on:
http://time.com/4751475/american-air.../?xid=homepage
http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/22/us/ame...ontation-trnd/
To each their own, I guess. To me, if you pay for a seat on an airplane, you should get to keep it (I know thats pretty radical!)
And could United have handled it better? A better question is what could they have realistically done worse? IMO, they should have upped their offer until they got enough bites. If they reached their maximum, and still no takers then you pay for your employees to ride there on Greyhound or buy a ticket on another airlines. The police here look like absolute goons and united looks even sillier.
In an oligopoly, I cant say ill never use united again, but i will do my best not to.
That's not the point. Of course, if you buy a ticket you should get to keep it. But if they say you have to leave, you need to leave. You can't act like a two year old and scream and hold onto you chair. Instead, you get off the goddamn plane and figure out your next option. That's what you would do and that's what I would do. Because we are adults.
And by the way, I hate United. I will never fly them if I can absolutely avoid it.
Last edited by Two Utes; 04-11-2017 at 10:30 AM.
I'm told that the 37,000 word (per Anderson Cooper on CNN last night) contract you sign when you buy a ticket entitles the airline to give your seat to someone else.
I've never read it, and I never will. So, it may or may not be true. But, according to CNN, United has a legal right to re-accommodate anyone.
This past weekend my Friday flight from Eugene to Knoxville got messed up due to the weather problems, and I was going to have to spend 2 days, yes 2 days in Minneapolis. There were ZERO available flights on Saturday. I asked nicely if they could route me through SLC where I have family, which they did. So, I got a weekend with my parents and a few siblings. If you fly, crap happens. Smile and make the best of it.
Ah ok that makes sense. Well said.
Given the complexity of flight, it's amazing there aren't more problems than there are....
There were a lot of mistakes made on this and the way Airport Police handled the removal simply provided a visual that everyone is reacting to. Never board the plane until you have the seating figured out. A few years back, my wife and I were flying somewhere and we had an overbooked airplane. After making a number of offers and getting no takers, the gate person called about 20 names of people on the flight to meet with the gate person. He then explained that they were overbooked by 4 seats and as there were not takers, the policy was to identify those who were flying on the least expensive ticket and explain that if there were no volunteers, 4 would be selected by random from the 20 people he had identified. He upped the offer from $400 to $600 and a couple of people bit. My wife and I looked around and decided of the people standing there, we would be better able to handle the delay than the others and decided we would wait. It was a relatively short wait (3 hours or so). I felt that the gate person handled a tough situation about as well as it could be handled.
And I would argue strenuously that there aren't more problems because most of us behave somewhat reasonably when this stuff happens to us, unlike the good doc.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
http://www.sltrib.com/news/5186614-1...e-traveling-to
Couple removed (peacefully) for allegedly sitting in the wrong seats. They were flying to their wedding on Costa Rica.
"Don't apologize; it's not your fault. It's my fault for overestimating your competence."
Better than middle seat
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Serious question because I honestly dont know. What legal right do they have to boot paying customers in favor of united employees who they want to deadhead? i know there are some terms and conditions that have to do with overbooking but I just dont know the rules.
He may not have acted the way I would have, but I would hardly call what guy did to be wrong or throwing a tantrum.
The real imbeciles here are United.
And of course Adam Carolla agrees with me.
Adam CarollaVerified account @adamcarolla 15h15 hours agoMore
Adam Carolla Retweeted Wayne
That crazy pussy should have got off the plane the 26th time he was told. Mistakes are made all the time but you must comply.
Whether good or bad, I think he and I have some cosmos connection.
This is dead on 100%
https://danwetzelsports.tumblr.com/p...avel-a-lot-for
Don't get me started on the dog craze at airports these days.
This is just to offer up an alternate viewpoint, that the passenger isn't a villain or the village idiot. Just a guy who made some poor decisions in life and ran afoul of the law. But also a guy who escaped Vietnam by boat in 1975 and has five kids, per this article:
https://www.theguardian.com/business...urgery-lawsuit
He's a much more sympathetic character than many might want to admit. More importantly, some of what is highlighted by Dan Wetzel's article could be solved by the airlines themselves. When people are treated like herded animals, they often end up acting like herded animals.
I don't care what his background is, he acted like a two year old.
When you are at an airport, there is no way around being herded like animals--except to get rid of a bunch of passengers. The only way you do that is going back to "Mad Men" times where only the elite fly. To be honest, I may not mind that, but most of the folks defending this guy likely would.
I Love the "solve this problem and make it better", but make sure it doesn't cost me any more to do it attitude.
Bottom line is, most people who fly a lot think the guy acted like a two year old. Those who are experienced know this shit happens and each of us takes our turn dealing with it, like humans, not like two year olds.
But I'm beating a dead horse. I'm done with the topic. Fire away, but I won't respond.
I'm with you on the dogs. The rest is whiny, though. Someone drinking coffee? Really? The drink cart is a major annoyance? Dan needs some Feng Shui in his life.
How does the person who lowers his seat into your lap not on this list? Airline seats should not recline.
The challenge with flights is I think a lot of these airlines are dealing with razor sharp margins on certain flight routes and so they need to have a full flight and so they overbook. The question is would you be willing to pay an extra $30 a flight so they didn't overbook?
I guess for me -- even if I was flaming angry about getting bumped -- if a police officer came on the plane and told me I needed to get off, I would get off and then raise hell with United. We've all got our own methods I guess.
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