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Thread: The Football Scheduling Thread

  1. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Applejack View Post
    I agree with the game being scheduled early in the year (although, think of all the injuries we had and how that would have affected us if we'd had played Oregon or Arizona in the last game). but how can you say you don't enjoy the game? I don't follow BYU as closely as I used to (praise be!), but I really, REALLY didn't want to lose that game. And that was different than other non-conference games; against Northern Illinois we looked like trash, but late in the game I was resigned to being bad last year, whereas with BYU every tackle, every hit, every touchdown pass had elements of elation, hatred, childhood memories, and WECAN'TLOSETHISGAME feelings. Basically, the way a rivalry should be.
    The exciting games for me are the conference games. Our goals every year should be win the PAC 12 South, Win the PAC Championship and get to a New Year's 6 game. BYU does not figure into any of those for the team or for me.

    Before the BYU game was played I had moved onto the Championship game. It was exciting because of the way it was won. Was it more exciting or satisfying than when we beat Oregon St. or TCU in the last seconds back in 2008 or USC a couple of times, not for me. I believe if we played USU and beat them in the same fashion, I would enjoy it just the same.

    I am not opposed to playing BYU. I just don't have the desire to play them every year and if we are required to play an in-state team each year, I would like to see a rotation with BYU and USU.

  2. #92
    Senior Member Scorcho's Avatar
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    Interesting poll results about interest from both fan-bases about the game, clearly not a scientific poll but.

    It's also curious how the state legislature was up in arms about the game be played between a state university and a private school, but has zero interests in a scheduling mandate for the other state school (Utah State) that they have a fiscal responsibility to.

    https://twitter.com/AFronceRivals/st...942363136?s=19
    Last edited by Scorcho; 01-15-2019 at 12:54 PM.

  3. #93
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    Don’t fool yourself. They don’t fund research. Nor do they find the hospital. They don’t fund much. But they do authorize things like the board of regents and board of trustees and that’s the issue.

    One of the biggest jokes in Utah is the state funds the U.
    Bingo. All they really have that matters in this discussion is the power to hassle the AD and the President. Which they do, as the $80K incident and subsequent audit prove. There have been other acts of intimidation that are not public.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
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    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

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  4. #94
    I love the idea of playing BYU or USU every year. A rotation would be terrific especially with USU's rise. Hopefully they sustain it.

  5. #95
    We have thrown away a 126-year rivalry with USU (112 games played). Spacing out the byu-P games shouldn't be a big deal. The game vs byu is never going away. Keep them on the schedule, but occasionally mix in the Aggies.

    But we absolutely need to beef up our OOC schedule. We have by far and away the weakest OOC schedule in the PAC-12. We have 2 (!) games vs P5 teams on our OOC schedule over the next decade, Baylor in '23 and '24. And that may as well be all the P5 OOC games we play this century, because we sure don't seem to be able to schedule any others. Especially if (when) byu continues it's downward trend we need to consider them a B game and get something interesting on the schedule.

  6. #96
    While I would like to rotate out byu I also like to buy out the fcs games and replace them with P5 teams.

  7. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthwestUteFan View Post
    While I would like to rotate out byu I also like to buy out the fcs games and replace them with P5 teams.
    I would too. My guess is that decision is totally financial. If you can pay an FCS $500k but you have to pay FBS $1.2mil for a one off game, that is probably more money than the U is willing to give away.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    I'm fine with rotating BYU out, but if it's just for USU? Why bother? We rotated them out for Michigan. Now that made sense.

    The 112 games vs USU is a good example of how a rivalry requires more than just volume.

    I'd be happy to see some more P5s on future schedules. I'm not too upset, though. Even without P5 OOC games, we've regularly finished with a very high SOS overall. We play a lot of tough games. I can understand wanting to water the schedule down a bit.

    The biggest scheduling issue is out of our hands. We need all conferences at 8 or 9 games (9 would be better),
    By rotating USU in for BYU, we've delegated BYU as 'B' game status. That would correct elevating BYU to 'A' game status, which we did when we played Michigan instead.

    Regarding the point in bold, this is not a true statement. It's not even up for debate. Per Sagarin, Utah's rank in the Pac-12 in SOS (national in parenthesis)

    2018: 3rd (26 -- don't forget, we got a 2nd game against UW when nobody else in the league did)
    2017: 9th (56)
    2016: 12th (60)
    2015: 7th (28)
    2014: 8th (36)
    2013: 3rd (3 -- yes, the Pac-12 was a bitch this year with the top 7 SOSes, 9 in the top 20 and no team worse than 31st)
    2012: 11th (41)
    2011: 12th (49)

    One top-10 SOS, two conference finishes in the top half of the league and three conference SOS finishes of 11th or worse. Watering down the schedule a bit? We're drowning it.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthwestUteFan View Post
    We have thrown away a 126-year rivalry with USU (112 games played). Spacing out the byu-P games shouldn't be a big deal. The game vs byu is never going away. Keep them on the schedule, but occasionally mix in the Aggies.

    But we absolutely need to beef up our OOC schedule. We have by far and away the weakest OOC schedule in the PAC-12. We have 2 (!) games vs P5 teams on our OOC schedule over the next decade, Baylor in '23 and '24. And that may as well be all the P5 OOC games we play this century, because we sure don't seem to be able to schedule any others. Especially if (when) byu continues it's downward trend we need to consider them a B game and get something interesting on the schedule.
    I'm officially referring to BYU as a 'B' game. I'm not one of those types who believe we should never play them again, but I'll also marginalize them to underscore how ridiculously soft our non-con is. Colorado has 7 H-H deals with P5s in the same timeframe in which we have 1. That's just unacceptable, and we deserve straight answers on why we're racing to the bottom with regard to scheduling.

  10. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    I'm officially referring to BYU as a 'B' game. I'm not one of those types who believe we should never play them again, but I'll also marginalize them to underscore how ridiculously soft our non-con is. Colorado has 7 H-H deals with P5s in the same timeframe in which we have 1. That's just unacceptable, and we deserve straight answers on why we're racing to the bottom with regard to scheduling.
    I agree with this. And I am bored to tears by our OOC schedule, not to mention embarrassed.
    I am very selfish as a fan. I want to see splashy OOC games. I have to travel to go to games anyway, and travelling to watch them play SUU, Weber, or NIU just doesn't move the needle. But give me a trip to Iowa, and I will bring my whole family.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    There are two possibilities:

    1) We are unable to schedule other P5s for some reason. Possible, but unlikely. We definitely have a reputation of being a tough team that will leave you battered. There is a lot of respect amongst coaches for Whittingham coached teams. We are at elevation in the west, so we aren't an ideal home/away for most P5s.

    2) The more likely explanation is that it is strategic. There are two ways for us to get to the playoff: (1) go undefeated 13-0, (2) go 12-1 with a tough enough schedule to be picked above other 12-1 teams. I guess the U is liking their chances of 13-0 with a weak OOC schedule more than their chances of being 12-1 with a tough enough OOC schedule. This might not be dumb. I doubt the committee would pick Utah over bigger brand 12-1 teams, regardless of schedule. Also, strategy runs beyond playoff/NY6 scenarios. We are program building. Finishing in the top 25 matters to us. It matters for perception, which matters for recruiting. If we think we are still 5-10 years away from being a real, regular NY6 contender (and the recruiting rankings would suggest we are further than that), then playing for wins is not a bad idea. If we think we are less deep than other contenders, playing a weaker OOC makes sense.

    So, I think it's strategic. Maybe we don't like or agree with the strategy, but it's not an unreasonable explanation, is it?
    A 12-1 P5 champ has never been excluded from the playoff, and of course, neither has a 13-0 P5 champ. It's pointless to discuss the merits of both as it pertains to SOS and getting into the playoff.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Shift the argument down to 11-2 then. The point is that there could be strategic reasons for our OOC schedules.
    I agree. There are strategic reasons. But any reason that has an end result of us floating at the bottom of the league isn't a good one.

    I don't think the CFP committee takes "brand awareness" into account when picking the Top 4, and the NY6 teams pretty much fill themselves out from there. But Wazzu's weak non-con was certainly a factor in missing out on a NY6 game this year. In Sagarin, they were 7th in the Pac-12, 53rd nationally. IOW, a finish very similar to what we see from Utah on an annual basis. LSU, a 3-loss team that was the team that knocked Wazzu out of a NY6 game, was 2nd in the SEC and 5th overall.

    With regard to the playoff and NY6, any strategy for dumbing down the non-con and getting good results out of the deal is speculative. But there's tons of evidence that having a tougher SOS does help. We don't have to have the toughest at Utah, but we're not in a position where we can afford to have the easiest. In the Pac-12 era, it's been much closer to the latter than it has been the former.

  13. #103
    As far as scheduling goes, I agree with SoCal's opinion that dumbing down the schedule is not a good idea. The only way we make the Championship game with the shit OOC we have next year is if we go undefeated or with 1 loss depending on how many losses the other schools have. I don't have a problem with the A, B, C method. However, the definitions need to change. The "A" game can only against another P5 or a good G5 school in a recruiting area like Texas or Florida. If the only games we can get are with the bottom of the barrel, so be it. It seems to be required that we play BYU, so this is the "B" game, though as previously stated I would like to see a rotation with USU. I would prefer the C game be a one-off against a G5 school, but it seems that is not currently available.

  14. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    As far as scheduling goes, I agree with SoCal's opinion that dumbing down the schedule is not a good idea. The only way we make the Championship game with the shit OOC we have next year is if we go undefeated or with 1 loss depending on how many losses the other schools have. I don't have a problem with the A, B, C method. However, the definitions need to change. The "A" game can only against another P5 or a good G5 school in a recruiting area like Texas or Florida. If the only games we can get are with the bottom of the barrel, so be it. It seems to be required that we play BYU, so this is the "B" game, though as previously stated I would like to see a rotation with USU. I would prefer the C game be a one-off against a G5 school, but it seems that is not currently available.
    Even if you just tried to get H/H games with G5's in your recruiting footprint, I think that would be fine. Off the top of my head:

    SJSU
    SDSU
    Fresno St.
    Rice
    North Texas
    SMU

    Houston, on the schedule in a few years, is probably a B or A game on the road
    TCU would certainly qualify there.

    Shoot, if you're going to continue to recruit in Florida, add one of those schools to the schedule.
    “It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.”

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  15. #105
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    Tell me where you think the following schools fit in our A-B-C scheduling philosophy ... No agenda, no trap answers. Copy/paste/edit your answers in a separate post.

    Wake Forest
    Boise State
    Minnesota
    UCF
    Liberty
    Appalachian State
    Duke
    Kansas
    Memphis
    Virginia Tech

  16. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    Tell me where you think the following schools fit in our A-B-C scheduling philosophy ... No agenda, no trap answers. Copy/paste/edit your answers in a separate post.

    Wake Forest
    Boise State
    Minnesota
    UCF
    Liberty
    Appalachian State
    Duke
    Kansas
    Memphis
    Virginia Tech
    Wake Forest- A
    Boise State- B
    Minnesota- A
    UCF-A
    Liberty- C
    Appalachian State- C
    Duke- A
    Kansas- A
    Memphis- B
    Virginia Tech- A
    “To me there is no dishonor in being wrong and learning. There is dishonor in willful ignorance and there is dishonor in disrespect.” James Hatch, former Navy Seal and current Yale student.

  17. #107
    Senior Member Scorcho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    I'm officially referring to BYU as a 'B' game. I'm not one of those types who believe we should never play them again, but I'll also marginalize them to underscore how ridiculously soft our non-con is. Colorado has 7 H-H deals with P5s in the same timeframe in which we have 1. That's just unacceptable, and we deserve straight answers on why we're racing to the bottom with regard to scheduling.
    Colorado just agreed to another H-H with Missouri for 2025 and 2030. I think Colorado has a distinct advantage in scheduling these types of games, because well .... the Buffs suck, and they've sucked for a long, long time. They've also kicked off their main rival from their schedule (CSU) for the foreseeable future so they have a little extra wiggle room. I can see why schools are lining up to play CU, but shy away from Utah (especially considering Utah's record OOC).

  18. #108
    Wake Forest - A
    Boise State - A*
    Minnesota - A*
    UCF - A*
    Liberty - C
    Appalachian State - B
    Duke - A
    Kansas - A
    Memphis - B
    Virginia Tech - A*

    I put a star next to the games I have any interest in or I think are in our recruiting area.

  19. #109
    Harlan’s gets his first significant football scheduling win with a home and home with Arkansas.

    http://utahutes.com/news/2019/7/31/u...26-and-28.aspx


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  20. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Schr-Ute View Post
    Harlan’s gets his first significant football scheduling win with a home and home with Arkansas.

    http://utahutes.com/news/2019/7/31/u...26-and-28.aspx


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    A quick review of Arkansas’ schedule the last 10 years shows them traveling west of Texas once, losing to Colorado St.
    "Don't apologize; it's not your fault. It's my fault for overestimating your competence."

  21. #111

  22. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Schr-Ute View Post
    Our schedules are already full those years (BYU, SUU, SDSU in 2022 and Weber, @Baylor, and @BYU in 2023). Rumors circulating that we'll drop BYU those 2 years, but I haven't seen anything official.

  23. #113
    247 is reporting that the BYU games have been cancelled but tacked back on to the end of the contract, and that Utah helped BYU to find 2 games to replace the Holy War those 2 years.

  24. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Scratch View Post
    247 is reporting that the BYU games have been cancelled but tacked back on to the end of the contract, and that Utah helped BYU to find 2 games to replace the Holy War those 2 years.

    Can I ask what this means?

  25. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Schr-Ute View Post
    Can I ask what this means?
    They extended the contract to play BYU by 2 years basically


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  26. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    They extended the contract to play BYU by 2 years basically


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    Right. I believe the contract currently runs through 2024, so this would mean they are extending it through 2026.

  27. #117
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    So I guess by this maneuver we’re going to avoid another legislative audit?

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  28. #118
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Tom Holmoe is making nice, so no legislative audit, I guess.

    Utes will defer two football games vs. BYU to play Florida in 2022 and 2023

    https://www.sltrib.com/sports/utah-u...-two-football/

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  29. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Scratch View Post
    247 is reporting that the BYU games have been cancelled but tacked back on to the end of the contract, and that Utah helped BYU to find 2 games to replace the Holy War potential wins in those 2 years.
    Fixed it for you.

  30. #120
    https://www.deseret.com/2020/2/17/21...ootball-series


    Home and home with LSU, right about when I'll have 8 or 9 grandchildren. Currently I have none.

    Will come on the heels of HH with Arkansas. As my kids might say, "my, that escalated quickly."
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