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Thread: FBI and DOJ Announce Corruption Charges in College Basketball

  1. #271
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    FBI and DOJ Announce Corruption Charges in College Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    Lawyer to lawyer, I'm not sure what the difference is between breach of contract or for cause. Maybe for cause is for material breach.
    I see mainly professional services contracts, and they enumerate specific events or categories of events that constitute "cause." I'm betting that high-end employment contracts like the one Miller has include those. Usually material breach is one of the enumerated causes.
    Last edited by LA Ute; 05-07-2019 at 02:36 PM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
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    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
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    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  2. #272
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    After the overkill actions against Utah and even BYU, I can’t imagine that the NCAA will now go easy on Arizona, USC, and UCLA. I think Wilner is right. Those schools and their fans should be very worried.

    The NCAA is coming for basketball coaches in the wake of the corruption scandal

    https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/08/...ents-and-more/

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  3. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    After the overkill actions against Utah and even BYU, I can’t imagine that the NCAA will now go easy on Arizona, USC, and UCLA. I think Wilner is right. Those schools and their fans should be very worried.

    The NCAA is coming for basketball coaches in the wake of the corruption scandal

    https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/08/...ents-and-more/
    No they won't. There NCAA is bunch of cowards
    "Be a philosopher. A man can compromise to gain a point. It has become apparent that a man can, within limits, follow his inclinations within the arms of the Church if he does so discreetly." - The Walking Drum

    "And here’s what life comes down to—not how many years you live, but how many of those years are filled with bullshit that doesn’t amount to anything to satisfy the requirements of some dickhead you’ll never get the pleasure of punching in the face." – Adam Carolla

  4. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    After the overkill actions against Utah and even BYU, I can’t imagine that the NCAA will now go easy on Arizona, USC, and UCLA. I think Wilner is right. Those schools and their fans should be very worried.

    The NCAA is coming for basketball coaches in the wake of the corruption scandal

    https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/08/...ents-and-more/
    There wasn't any overkill action taken against Utah. The penalties were minor. The biggest penalty was with regard to PR -- being on probation just sounds bad.

    What happened to Yoeli Childs was a disgrace. That pales in comparison to what happened to Utah.

    I agree with yours and Wilner's reading of the tea leaves.

  5. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    What happened to Yoeli Childs was a disgrace. That pales in comparison to what happened to Utah.
    Maybe, but it's great for us if he misses the Utah game. It was a fairly big and completely obvious deadline. You'd have to be living in a cave to miss it. I don't know how they blew that.

    Anyway, I'd love to see the NCAA bring out more hammer penalties, but I'm not optimistic. They get blasted more and more by the media every day.

  6. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Maybe, but it's great for us if he misses the Utah game. It was a fairly big and completely obvious deadline. You'd have to be living in a cave to miss it. I don't know how they blew that.

    Anyway, I'd love to see the NCAA bring out more hammer penalties, but I'm not optimistic. They get blasted more and more by the media every day.
    Great for us if Childs doesn't play. Good grief. Have we really sunk that far?

    I'm going to make a prediction. Whether Childs plays or not, a Krystkowiak team will not win another game against BYU. Not once. Pope is a real college basketball coach. He's going to be very successful for a long time and he will own Krystkowiak like Altman does.
    Last edited by SeattleUte; 08-12-2019 at 04:43 PM.
    One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

    --Albert Einstein

    The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.

    --Richard Dawkins

    Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.

    --Philo

  7. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    Great for us if Childs doesn't play. Good grief. Have we really sunk that far?

    I'm going to make a prediction. Whether Childs plays or not, a Krystkowiak team will not win another game against BYU. Not once. Pope is a real college basketball coach. He's going to be very successful for a long time and he will own Krystkowiak like Altman does.
    You are the 5 o'clock Charlie of utahby5

  8. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahsMrSports View Post
    You are the 5 o'clock Charlie of utahby5
    Irony. No, you are.
    One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

    --Albert Einstein

    The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.

    --Richard Dawkins

    Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.

    --Philo

  9. #279
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahsMrSports View Post
    You are the 5 o'clock Charlie of utahby5
    You have been totally predictable in your apologetics for this charlatan of a coach. I supported him because I know it's a tough job that can take years to achieve a distinguished level of success, Utah has a lot of disadvantages and no advantages for basketball recruiting, and I give the benefit of the doubt. But when the transfers--of good players--started to pile up, that was the kiss of death, on top of lackluster records year after year. And I have been right. You on the other hand, have maintained your apologetics and you have been wrong. Now your cred is totally destroyed.
    One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

    --Albert Einstein

    The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.

    --Richard Dawkins

    Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.

    --Philo

  10. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    You have been totally predictable in your apologetics for this charlatan of a coach. I supported him because I know it's a tough job that can take years to achieve a distinguished level of success, Utah has a lot of disadvantages and no advantages for basketball recruiting, and I give the benefit of the doubt. But when the transfers--of good players--started to pile up, that was the kiss of death, on top of lackluster records year after year. And I have been right. You on the other hand, have maintained your apologetics and you have been wrong. Now your cred is totally destroyed.
    My take: There are some signs that Larry may turn things around (Donnie Daniels coming in will hopefully increase retention, recruiting is improving.). If he doesn't he is toast in 2021.

    Seattle: Mark Pope, whose best output as a coach is the CBI semifinals, is a real coach and will dominate our coach for years to come!

    Yep, I am definitely the one not grounded in reality here..........

  11. #281
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahsMrSports View Post
    My take: There are some signs that Larry may turn things around (Donnie Daniels coming in will hopefully increase retention, recruiting is improving.). If he doesn't he is toast in 2021.

    Seattle: Mark Pope, whose best output as a coach is the CBI semifinals, is a real coach and will dominate our coach for years to come!

    Yep, I am definitely the one not grounded in reality here..........
    If Mark Pope is a real coach capable of dominating the U for years then he will leave Provo in his rear view mirror very soon. He definitely does not want to be there long term.

  12. #282
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahsMrSports View Post
    Seattle: Mark Pope, whose best output as a coach is the CBI semifinals, is a real coach and will dominate our coach for years to come!

    Yep, I am definitely the one not grounded in reality here..........
    Mark Pope has an outstanding resume going back to high school in Bellevue, Washington. He had Utah Valley trending in the right direction. He's enthusiastic about his new job and, Scratch suggests, he's super ambitious. Krystkowiak can't keep a decent player in his program past his sophomore year. He's now been dealt the setback and shackle of sanctions for cheating. And Krystkowiak hasn't beaten BYU in, like, forever.

    I think my prediction, far from being not grounded in reality, well plays the odds.
    One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

    --Albert Einstein

    The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.

    --Richard Dawkins

    Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.

    --Philo

  13. #283
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahsMrSports View Post
    My take: There are some signs that Larry may turn things around (Donnie Daniels coming in will hopefully increase retention, recruiting is improving.). If he doesn't he is toast in 2021.

    Seattle: Mark Pope, whose best output as a coach is the CBI semifinals, is a real coach and will dominate our coach for years to come!

    Yep, I am definitely the one not grounded in reality here..........
    Who said he has until 2021? He's a dead man walking. The latest transfers have sealed his fate.

  14. #284
    Quote Originally Posted by Applejack View Post
    Who said he has until 2021? He's a dead man walking. The latest transfers have sealed his fate.
    It sure looks like it, but he can still save himself with a tournament bid. He has had strong recruiting classes for a few years in a row. I hope he makes the tournament so we can build on that instead of starting over again. But I have almost no hope of that tournament bid happening.

  15. #285
    Quote Originally Posted by Applejack View Post
    Who said he has until 2021? He's a dead man walking. The latest transfers have sealed his fate.
    There are two reasons he has until at least 2021. A) the buyout after next year is still too high barring a complete disaster. B) the hope of a tournament bid in 2020 is pretty small. If 2020 was a make or break year, you may as well fire him now.

    But don't be a clown like SeattleUte and ignore my main point; he is here now simply because of that buyout. Without it, he would be gone by now.

    That said, I firmly believe we will be back in the tournament in 2021. That will be enough to get him to 2022 where we have to go on a deep run or he is out.

  16. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahsMrSports View Post
    There are two reasons he has until at least 2021. A) the buyout after next year is still too high barring a complete disaster. B) the hope of a tournament bid in 2020 is pretty small. If 2020 was a make or break year, you may as well fire him now.
    Big buyouts happen every year. If this year doesn't leave the fan base (and donor base) hopeful, either someone will pony up the dough, or we will have confirmation that we are no longer a basketball school.

  17. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Big buyouts happen every year. If this year doesn't leave the fan base (and donor base) hopeful, either someone will pony up the dough, or we will have confirmation that we are no longer a basketball school.
    Id love to see data on this. I mean, 12 million big? 9 million big?

  18. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by Applejack View Post
    Who said he has until 2021? He's a dead man walking. The latest transfers have sealed his fate.
    Coaches know when they're about to be fired. Harlan wouldn't have approved the Martinez hire if Larry wasn't getting two more seasons.

  19. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahsMrSports View Post
    There are two reasons he has until at least 2021. A) the buyout after next year is still too high barring a complete disaster. B) the hope of a tournament bid in 2020 is pretty small. If 2020 was a make or break year, you may as well fire him now.

    But don't be a clown like SeattleUte and ignore my main point; he is here now simply because of that buyout. Without it, he would be gone by now.

    That said, I firmly believe we will be back in the tournament in 2021. That will be enough to get him to 2022 where we have to go on a deep run or he is out.
    He isn't "here now simply because of that buyout." Do you think you do him favors by saying that? See if you can wrap your intellect (such as it is) around all the implications of that. The AD could easily raise money to buy him out, and the University probably could fire him for cause and negotiate a discount or just tell him, eff off, sue us, cheater. Probably what Krystkowiak has going for him is that he and his two predecessors have over 15 years smothered a great deal of enthusiasm for the program.

    I've been a diehard fan of this program since I was 8, and Jim Marsh's recent death makes me reflect on the good times. No, they didn't win all the time, but the program evinced character, commitment and a personality. It's sickening to see the cynicism of an attitude like yours, probably derived from your interactions with these coaches.
    One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

    --Albert Einstein

    The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.

    --Richard Dawkins

    Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.

    --Philo

  20. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahsMrSports View Post
    Id love to see data on this. I mean, 12 million big? 9 million big?
    Where do you think the money comes from to pay him his exorbitant salary in the first place? Not the Utah taxpayers.
    One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

    --Albert Einstein

    The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.

    --Richard Dawkins

    Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.

    --Philo

  21. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    He isn't "here now simply because of that buyout." Do you think you do him favors by saying that? See if you can wrap your intellect (such as it is) around all the implications of that. The AD could easily raise money to buy him out, and the University probably could fire him for cause and negotiate a discount or just tell him, eff off, sue us, cheater. Probably what Krystkowiak has going for him is that he and his two predecessors have over 15 years smothered a great deal of enthusiasm for the program.

    I've been a diehard fan of this program since I was 8, and Jim Marsh's recent death makes me reflect on the good times. No, they didn't win all the time, but the program evinced character, commitment and a personality. It's sickening to see the cynicism of an attitude like yours, probably derived from your interactions with these coaches.
    We can't fire Larry for cause. He's done nothing documented per the terms of his contract to warrant such.

  22. #292
    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    He isn't "here now simply because of that buyout." Do you think you do him favors by saying that? See if you can wrap your intellect (such as it is) around all the implications of that. The AD could easily raise money to buy him out, and the University probably could fire him for cause and negotiate a discount or just tell him, eff off, sue us, cheater. Probably what Krystkowiak has going for him is that he and his two predecessors have over 15 years smothered a great deal of enthusiasm for the program.

    I've been a diehard fan of this program since I was 8, and Jim Marsh's recent death makes me reflect on the good times. No, they didn't win all the time, but the program evinced character, commitment and a personality. It's sickening to see the cynicism of an attitude like yours, probably derived from your interactions with these coaches.
    Pound sand.

  23. #293
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    We can't fire Larry for cause. He's done nothing documented per the terms of his contract to warrant such.
    Have you read the contract? What does it say about recruiting violations and cause? If you have it please email it to me.
    One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

    --Albert Einstein

    The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.

    --Richard Dawkins

    Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.

    --Philo

  24. #294
    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    Have you read the contract? What does it say about recruiting violations and cause? If you have it please email it to me.
    If we fire K for watching his recruitable-aged son practice for a moment with his team and then self-reporting you'll never hire a coach worth anything ever again. The basketball program would be effectually dead from that point forward.

    Cheater? Please explain the competitive advantage gained by either him or his assistants coaches through these self-reported and self-punished infractions?

    That might be the stupidest recommendation ever written about Utah sports to the point where I almost don't believe you are serious.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  25. #295
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    If we fire K for watching his recruitable-aged son practice for a moment with his team and then self-reporting you'll never hire a coach worth anything ever again. The basketball program would be effectually dead from that point forward.

    Cheater? Please explain the competitive advantage gained by either him or his assistants coaches through these self-reported and self-punished infractions?

    That might be the stupidest recommendation ever written about Utah sports to the point where I almost don't believe you are serious.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I never said we should fire him, you windbag.
    One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

    --Albert Einstein

    The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.

    --Richard Dawkins

    Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.

    --Philo

  26. #296
    And I’m not the one who said the only reason he hasn’t been fired is the buy out. That comment ought to infuriate everyone including the coaches.
    One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

    --Albert Einstein

    The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.

    --Richard Dawkins

    Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.

    --Philo

  27. #297
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    to the point where I almost don't believe you are serious.
    When was the last time you thought Seattle was serious about something other than trolling?

  28. #298
    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    I never said we should fire him, you windbag.
    "The AD could easily raise money to buy him out, and the University probably could fire him for cause and negotiate a discount or just tell him, eff off, sue us, cheater. " -SeattleUte just hours ago

    Gee, how could I have misinterpreted that?

    To sancho's point you are hard to take serious beyond simply trolling and if we've got you down to name calling it's probably time for you to go hide back under your bridge.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  29. #299
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    "The AD could easily raise money to buy him out, and the University probably could fire him for cause and negotiate a discount or just tell him, eff off, sue us, cheater. " -SeattleUte just hours ago

    Gee, how could I have misinterpreted that?

    To sancho's point you are hard to take serious beyond simply trolling and if we've got you down to name calling it's probably time for you to go hide back under your bridge.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Does that say that he should be fired? I was responding to a naive and ill-advised comment that the coaches are only still drawing a breath at the U of U because of the buyout. I was actually defending the coaches. And Sancho agrees with my point.

    I don’t care what Sancho says about taking me seriously or not. The facts are that I have been prescient about the direction of this program. You may recall that early on I rejected the innuendo the coaches spread about the players (they’re basically kids) leaving the program. Now everyone except apparently you agrees there’s a problem with too many transfers.

    You all owe me an apology for your bullying and abuse while the substance of my posts have been absolutely right.

    I’m not talking about concerned, Applejack, LA, U-Ute or Diehard.
    One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

    --Albert Einstein

    The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.

    --Richard Dawkins

    Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.

    --Philo

  30. #300
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post

    You all owe me an apology for your bullying and abuse while the substance of my posts have been absolutely right.
    You are in rare form today, my friend.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

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