Page 9 of 12 FirstFirst ... 56789101112 LastLast
Results 241 to 270 of 342

Thread: FBI and DOJ Announce Corruption Charges in College Basketball

  1. #241
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Los Angeles, California
    Posts
    17,726
    FBI wiretap: Miller 'fronted' deal for Ayton

    Teaser:

    "Arizona basketball coach Sean Miller “fronted” the deal to get Deandre Ayton to the school, agent runner Christian Dawkins said on an FBI wiretap investigating corruption in college basketball...."

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  2. #242
    How can UA continue to have Miller as the face of its program and university. If nothing else the lack of institutional control is astonishing. And there has to be a lot more to it than that.

  3. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    How can UA continue to have Miller as the face of its program and university. If nothing else the lack of institutional control is astonishing. And there has to be a lot more to it than that.
    I think if we had him, we'd be trying to hold onto him too. The allure of winning is too strong. I think something happens to a fanbase where the moraliy of the base as a whole is less than the average morality of an individual within the base. Maybe. Just making it up as I go here.

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    How can UA continue to have Miller as the face of its program and university. If nothing else the lack of institutional control is astonishing. And there has to be a lot more to it than that.
    He's on the hot seat. Not for the bribes, necessarily; but because of the way UofA stunk it up this year.

  5. #245
    Why would the NCAA want to punish the programs that are bringing in the bucks? The blue bloods have nothing to fear when it comes to the NCAA.

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    I think if we had him, we'd be trying to hold onto him too. The allure of winning is too strong. I think something happens to a fanbase where the moraliy of the base as a whole is less than the average morality of an individual within the base. Maybe. Just making it up as I go here.
    Speak for yourself.
    One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

    --Albert Einstein

    The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.

    --Richard Dawkins

    Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.

    --Philo

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    Speak for yourself.
    Okay. I'm just looking around. Every time a good coach gets in trouble, the fan base has a hard time coming to grips with the fact that he should be let go. I'm just saying that I'm not sure the Utah fan base would act differently. Maybe we would. We haven't been tested in that way.

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Okay. I'm just looking around. Every time a good coach gets in trouble, the fan base has a hard time coming to grips with the fact that he should be let go. I'm just saying that I'm not sure the Utah fan base would act differently. Maybe we would. We haven't been tested in that way.
    Some would say that's what happened with Majerus.

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by Irving Washington View Post
    Some would say that's what happened with Majerus.
    Ha! wtf are you talking about? First, Majerus was let go. And his "crimes" were buying cheeseburgers for players and telling Lance Allred he was a disgrace to his disability.
    One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

    --Albert Einstein

    The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.

    --Richard Dawkins

    Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.

    --Philo

  10. #250
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Los Angeles, California
    Posts
    17,726
    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    Ha! wtf are you talking about? First, Majerus was let go. And his "crimes" were buying cheeseburgers for players and telling Lance Allred he was a disgrace to his disability.
    He resigned rather than participate in an internal investigation of his treatment of Allred. That was a process Allred set in motion and that no one could stop. He wasn’t having it. I loved Big Rick, warts and all, and wish he had stayed. When he was announced as the new USC coach I was a USC basketball fan for 3-4 days until he changed his mind.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  11. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    He resigned rather than participate in an internal investigation of his treatment of Allred. That was a process Allred set in motion and that no one could stop. He wasn’t having it. I loved Big Rick, warts and all, and wish he had stayed. When he was announced as the new USC coach I was a USC basketball fan for 3-4 days until he changed his mind.
    You're so defensive! My point is that Washington Irving could not be further out to lunch comparing Utah's treatment of Majerus with Arizona tolerating an investigation of federal crimes in retaining Sean Miller. Whatever Majerus's "warts", Utah did not enable and defend him because he'd won a lot of important basketball games. Utah is a contrary example. If anything, Utah can be criticized for being too hard on Majerus.
    One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

    --Albert Einstein

    The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.

    --Richard Dawkins

    Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.

    --Philo

  12. #252
    Senior Member Scorcho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    right here, right now
    Posts
    1,448
    Quote Originally Posted by Applejack View Post
    He's on the hot seat. Not for the bribes, necessarily; but because of the way UofA stunk it up this year.
    I view UofA's basketball program as bigger than their coach, but the fact that the University is standing behind Miller despite all the turmoil around him indicates that's not true.

    Pretty odd for a coach that has under-performed vs. talent level IMO.

  13. #253
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Los Angeles, California
    Posts
    17,726
    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    Whatever Majerus's "warts", Utah did not enable and defend him because he'd won a lot of important basketball games. Utah is a contrary example. If anything.
    You’re right about the above. I think Washington Irving is right to the extent he’s talking about Rick’s occasional spurts of impulsive/eccentric behavior, which Utah did put up with. (Taking a season off to take care of his mom, for example.)

    You said Majerus was “let go.” No. He abruptly quit. To me it was the most disappointing thing he did while Utah’s coach. I still love the guy.
    Last edited by LA Ute; 05-02-2019 at 12:32 PM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  14. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    You're so defensive! My point is that Washington Irving could not be further out to lunch comparing Utah's treatment of Majerus with Arizona tolerating an investigation of federal crimes in retaining Sean Miller. Whatever Majerus's "warts", Utah did not enable and defend him because he'd won a lot of important basketball games. Utah is a contrary example. If anything, Utah can be criticized for being too hard on Majerus.
    Majerus was a constant source of problems for Hill. All red wasn't the only player who complained. Most just did it privately. The bigger issue was complaints of sexual harassment (whatever it was.) I loved Rick, and hated to see him go, but he had his flaws. Hill kept them under wraps, one of the better things he did.

  15. #255
    Quote Originally Posted by Irving Washington View Post
    Majerus was a constant source of problems for Hill. All red wasn't the only player who complained. Most just did it privately. The bigger issue was complaints of sexual harassment (whatever it was.) I loved Rick, and hated to see him go, but he had his flaws. Hill kept them under wraps, one of the better things he did.
    What's your point? This is not a defense of your saying that Utah behaved like Arizona in its handling of Majerus (who was never investigated for bribing players or federal crimes). This is demonstrably false and should be offensive to all who love the U of U. Also, the sexual harassment innuendo is new and a vile thing to put on the Internet where there is no record of it. Didn't your mother teach you not to speak ill of the dead?

    Back to Sancho's point. I would be the first to want Utah to show a coach the door who brought disgrace on the University of Utah. Moreover, Sancho's point is not supported by the evidence. UCLA fired Harrrick after he won a national championship for a small NCAA infraction related to who attended recruiting dinners, Indiana fired Knight for being an asshole, Texas Tech ousted Leach for the same reason. Louisville fired Pitino for hosting nude dancers. Iowa State fired Eustachy for skulking around sorority houses. Oklahoma fired Kelvin Sampson for being on the phone with a recruit when he wasn't supposed to be. USC fired Pete Carroll because an alumnus bribed Reggie Bush without Pete's knowledge. Washington fired Don James for the same reason. I could go on and on, citing clear back to Woody Hays. Every one of these coaches were the most successful coaches ever at their schools (UCLA in modern times, Harrick being the only coach to win a title there except Wooden). Sancho's comment was just cynical absolute nonsense. And then your remark about Utah being the same made me go berserk. This isn't about whether you or LAUte love Majerus. Your nihilism is sickening.

    Honestly, if universities just cancelled all DI sports I could be philosophical about it. Exchanges like this make me feel like it would be for the best. One of my pet peeves is fans who think that DI sports, which generate maybe $100-150 million a year in revenue with questionable profits, at schools with budgets in the many billions and enjoy global reputations among many millions if not billions of people, is more important than anything to a university. You all sound like you just fell off the turnip truck. (I don't know wtf is the matter with Arizona; it's an outlier, which is my point.)
    Last edited by SeattleUte; 05-02-2019 at 05:09 PM.
    One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

    --Albert Einstein

    The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.

    --Richard Dawkins

    Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.

    --Philo

  16. #256
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Los Angeles, California
    Posts
    17,726
    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    What's your point? This is not a defense of your saying that Utah behaved like Arizona in its handling of Majerus (who was never investigated for bribing players or federal crimes). This is demonstrably false and should be offensive to all who love the U of U. Also, the sexual harassment innuendo is new and a vile thing to put on the Internet where there is no record of it. Didn't your mother teach you not to speak ill of the dead?

    Back to Sancho's point. I would be the first to want Utah to show a coach the door who brought disgrace on the University of Utah. Moreover, Sancho's point is not supported by the evidence. UCLA fired Harrrick after he won a national championship for a small NCAA infraction related to who attended recruiting dinners, Indiana fired Knight for being an asshole, Texas Tech ousted Leach for the same reason. Louisville fired Pitino for hosting nude dancers. Iowa State fired Eustachy for skulking around sorority houses. Oklahoma fired Kelvin Sampson for being on the phone with a recruit when he wasn't supposed to be. USC fired Pete Carroll because an alumnus bribed Reggie Bush without Pete's knowledge. Washington fired Don James for the same reason. I could go on and on, citing clear back to Woody Hays. Every one of these coaches were the most successful coaches ever at their schools (UCLA in modern times, Harrick being the only coach to win a title there except Wooden). Sancho's comment was just cynical absolute nonsense. And then your remark about Utah being the same made me go berserk. This isn't about whether you or LAUte love Majerus. Your nihilism is sickening.

    Honestly, if universities just cancelled all DI sports I could be philosophical about it. Exchanges like this make me feel like it would be for the best. One of my pet peeves is fans who think that DI sports, which generate maybe $100-150 million a year in revenue with questionable profits, at schools with budgets in the many billions and enjoy global reputations among many millions if not billions of people, is more important than anything to a university. You all sound like you just fell off the turnip truck. (I don't know wtf is the matter with Arizona; it's an outlier, which is my point.)
    fulminate.png

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  17. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    What's your point? This is not a defense of your saying that Utah behaved like Arizona in its handling of Majerus (who was never investigated for bribing players or federal crimes). This is demonstrably false and should be offensive to all who love the U of U. Also, the sexual harassment innuendo is new and a vile thing to put on the Internet where there is no record of it. Didn't your mother teach you not to speak ill of the dead?

    Back to Sancho's point. I would be the first to want Utah to show a coach the door who brought disgrace on the University of Utah. Moreover, Sancho's point is not supported by the evidence. UCLA fired Harrrick after he won a national championship for a small NCAA infraction related to who attended recruiting dinners, Indiana fired Knight for being an asshole, Texas Tech ousted Leach for the same reason. Louisville fired Pitino for hosting nude dancers. Iowa State fired Eustachy for skulking around sorority houses. Oklahoma fired Kelvin Sampson for being on the phone with a recruit when he wasn't supposed to be. USC fired Pete Carroll because an alumnus bribed Reggie Bush without Pete's knowledge. Washington fired Don James for the same reason. I could go on and on, citing clear back to Woody Hays. Every one of these coaches were the most successful coaches ever at their schools (UCLA in modern times, Harrick being the only coach to win a title there except Wooden). Sancho's comment was just cynical absolute nonsense. And then your remark about Utah being the same made me go berserk. This isn't about whether you or LAUte love Majerus. Your nihilism is sickening.

    Honestly, if universities just cancelled all DI sports I could be philosophical about it. Exchanges like this make me feel like it would be for the best. One of my pet peeves is fans who think that DI sports, which generate maybe $100-150 million a year in revenue with questionable profits, at schools with budgets in the many billions and enjoy global reputations among many millions if not billions of people, is more important than anything to a university. You all sound like you just fell off the turnip truck. (I don't know wtf is the matter with Arizona; it's an outlier, which is my point.)
    Counselor, if you were following the line of discussion (maybe a flow chart would help) you would know that I was talking about fans accepting bad behavior from a winning coach.
    I was probably writing about myself in my previous post. I loved Majerus. I was a huge Rick homer. To me, he was the Greek tragic hero. I miss him. Tears came to my eyes as I just reread S.L. Prince's article on him.
    So, as Rick would say, don't be such a c...!

  18. #258
    I wonder if they did this because of Stanford’s vaunted men’s basketball and football?

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/02/u...core-ios-share

    America’s most admired brands worldwide are its universities, which is invaluable, and not because of football or basketball, and why coaches, even very successful ones, usually get almost no room for corruption or even bad behavior.

    For the record, I’ve never had a problem with how Hill handled Majerus, except the aftermath of his departure.
    One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

    --Albert Einstein

    The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.

    --Richard Dawkins

    Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.

    --Philo

  19. #259
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Twin Falls, Idaho
    Posts
    3,405
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    He resigned rather than participate in an internal investigation of his treatment of Allred. That was a process Allred set in motion and that no one could stop. He wasn’t having it. I loved Big Rick, warts and all, and wish he had stayed. When he was announced as the new USC coach I was a USC basketball fan for 3-4 days until he changed his mind.
    He resigned because he reached the minimum tenure required by state employees to receive lifetime health insurance. Documented by Doug Gottlieb in one of the best stories ever written on Majerus. The timeline largely matches up.

    [QUOTE]Majerus stayed at Utah a year or two too long, but did so with his health in mind. In order to receive lifetime healthcare benefits from the state of Utah you have to work for the state for 10 years, which is why he stayed on salary after he left the school.
    [/QUOTE]
    https://www.cbssports.com/college-ba...-to-talk-ball/

  20. #260
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Twin Falls, Idaho
    Posts
    3,405
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Okay. I'm just looking around. Every time a good coach gets in trouble, the fan base has a hard time coming to grips with the fact that he should be let go. I'm just saying that I'm not sure the Utah fan base would act differently. Maybe we would. We haven't been tested in that way.
    We were tested that way with Swimgate. Hill's actions (or lack thereof) were absolutely cause for termination, but he had plenty of apologists on this and other boards. The fact that the sport involved was swimming lessened the media attention and heat the responsible parties would've faced had it been a major sport that was involved.

    There is a herd mentality that exists within every fanbase of college athletics. Even Joe Paterno had his defenders, and for a far grievous sin than Swimgate or what Arizona basketball is going through. I have no doubt a sizable percentage of our fan base would rally behind the coach as well.

  21. #261
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Twin Falls, Idaho
    Posts
    3,405
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    He resigned because he reached the minimum tenure required by state employees to receive lifetime health insurance. Documented by Doug Gottlieb in one of the best stories ever written on Majerus. The timeline largely matches up.

    [QUOTE]Majerus stayed at Utah a year or two too long, but did so with his health in mind. In order to receive lifetime healthcare benefits from the state of Utah you have to work for the state for 10 years, which is why he stayed on salary after he left the school.
    https://www.cbssports.com/college-ba...-to-talk-ball/[/QUOTE]

    Of course, skeptics of Gottlieb's memories of Majerus can use the fact that there's a pretty significant error early on in this story -- Marc Jackson came back to play for Ray Giacoletti, not Jim "Boylan".

  22. #262
    Five-O Diehard Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Salt Lake City
    Posts
    4,894
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    He resigned because he reached the minimum tenure required by state employees to receive lifetime health insurance. Documented by Doug Gottlieb in one of the best stories ever written on Majerus. The timeline largely matches up.

    [QUOTE]Majerus stayed at Utah a year or two too long, but did so with his health in mind. In order to receive lifetime healthcare benefits from the state of Utah you have to work for the state for 10 years, which is why he stayed on salary after he left the school.
    https://www.cbssports.com/college-ba...-to-talk-ball/[/QUOTE]

    Maybe he had that in a contract, but that has nothing to do with state employees.

    State employees do not get lifetime health benefits after 10 years.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  23. #263
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Los Angeles, California
    Posts
    17,726
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    He resigned because he reached the minimum tenure required by state employees to receive lifetime health insurance. Documented by Doug Gottlieb in one of the best stories ever written on Majerus. The timeline largely matches up.

    [QUOTE]Majerus stayed at Utah a year or two too long, but did so with his health in mind. In order to receive lifetime healthcare benefits from the state of Utah you have to work for the state for 10 years, which is why he stayed on salary after he left the school.
    https://www.cbssports.com/college-ba...-to-talk-ball/[/QUOTE]

    I don’t doubt that was a factor, but it’s not why he abruptly left his team in the middle of the season, with very little explanation.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  24. #264
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Los Angeles, California
    Posts
    17,726
    Wilner sees bad things coming for Arizona:

    What’s next for Arizona and Sean Miller: In the age of reform, the NCAA hammer looms

    What's next for Arizona and Sean Miller? A bad situation could very well get much worse as the NCAA uses information obtained by the FBI as fuel to continue its investigation of the program. The Hotline fully expects severe sanctions to be imposed -- not only is that the politically expedient move for NCAA president Mark Emmert, but he has facts to justify the hammer.
    https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/05/...-12-hotline-nl

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  25. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Wilner sees bad things coming for Arizona:

    What’s next for Arizona and Sean Miller: In the age of reform, the NCAA hammer looms



    https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/05/...-12-hotline-nl
    That's when they'll fire him. There's never been a coach that kept his job after severe sanctions.

    Regardless of my diatribe the other day, I tend to think it's not fans or regard for the basketball program's fortunes that keeps him in his job, but legal issues. There's probably a monster buy out and they figure there's an ironclad for-cause case to be made for them soon, so what's the hurry.
    One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

    --Albert Einstein

    The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.

    --Richard Dawkins

    Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.

    --Philo

  26. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    That's when they'll fire him. There's never been a coach that kept his job after severe sanctions.

    Regardless of my diatribe the other day, I tend to think it's not fans or regard for the basketball program's fortunes that keeps him in his job, but legal issues. There's probably a monster buy out and they figure there's an ironclad for-cause case to be made for them soon, so what's the hurry.
    Miller's contract states he still gets paid, even if he is fired for cause. How's that an incentive to run a clean program?

    Edit: Well, maybe not. But the wording is not precise, setting up a potential legal battle if he is fired for cause. https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...use/371709002/
    Last edited by chrisrenrut; 05-06-2019 at 04:32 PM.
    “To me there is no dishonor in being wrong and learning. There is dishonor in willful ignorance and there is dishonor in disrespect.” James Hatch, former Navy Seal and current Yale student.

  27. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrenrut View Post
    Miller's contract states he still gets paid, even if he is fired for cause. How's that an incentive to run a clean program?

    Edit: Well, maybe not. But the wording is not precise, setting up a potential legal battle if he is fired for cause. https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...use/371709002/
    What if it's not just for cause, but for an explicit breach of the contract? If he just stopped showing up for work, for example, Arizona presumably would not have to pay him. And if his contract says otherwise, I don't see hopw such a clause could be enforced. There not really any consideration, for one thing, if he doesn't actually have to do anything in order to get paid.

  28. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by Scratch View Post
    What if it's not just for cause, but for an explicit breach of the contract? If he just stopped showing up for work, for example, Arizona presumably would not have to pay him. And if his contract says otherwise, I don't see hopw such a clause could be enforced. There not really any consideration, for one thing, if he doesn't actually have to do anything in order to get paid.
    I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know the legal definition of "cause". But I imagine not performing the basic duties for that which he was hired would fit into that definition.
    “To me there is no dishonor in being wrong and learning. There is dishonor in willful ignorance and there is dishonor in disrespect.” James Hatch, former Navy Seal and current Yale student.

  29. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by Scratch View Post
    What if it's not just for cause, but for an explicit breach of the contract? If he just stopped showing up for work, for example, Arizona presumably would not have to pay him. And if his contract says otherwise, I don't see hopw such a clause could be enforced. There not really any consideration, for one thing, if he doesn't actually have to do anything in order to get paid.
    Lawyer to lawyer, I'm not sure what the difference is between breach of contract or for cause. Maybe for cause is for material breach.
    One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

    --Albert Einstein

    The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.

    --Richard Dawkins

    Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.

    --Philo

  30. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    Lawyer to lawyer, I'm not sure what the difference is between breach of contract or for cause. Maybe for cause is for material breach.
    I generally agree, but having a contract that doesn't even allow a termination for breach of the contract raises a lot of foundational contractual quandaries.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •