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Thread: The Russia Dossier

  1. #31
    So help me to understand this LA.

    Republicans or Democrats of course are doing research on all of their political opponents, in any form. This is as old as Democracy where you are trying to find information about your opponent so you can defeat them.

    So everybody is hiring firms to dig up dirt. I’m sure every presidential candidate did this.

    Along the way comes a rumor or request to look into Trump’s involvement with Russia. This would be a natural question for Jeb Bush or Hillary Clinton. It is no secret that Trump had business dealings with Russians. So those digging up dirt hire former British Intelligence with connections to Russia to dig up dirt.

    As one article put it, a dossier is basically high grade gossip. So this guy finds some salacious gossip on Trump that was intended or should have become the basis for more investigation.

    But to make matters more interesting the dossier alleges that there was collusion with Trump and Russians which matches what is basically indisputable evidence that the Russians did interfere in the election.

    Further, Comey as FBI director briefed Trump about the dossier and the allegations in it.

    So what I don’t understand is why is there controversy on who hired the investigation? The question still remains: Are any of the allegations in the dossier true?

    It doesn’t appear that the dossier had any benefit for Dems in the election, as it wasn’t known about until after the election.

    So are you mad at the DNC over this? If so, why?


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  2. #32
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    So help me to understand this LA.

    Republicans or Democrats of course are doing research on all of their political opponents, in any form. This is as old as Democracy where you are trying to find information about your opponent so you can defeat them.

    So everybody is hiring firms to dig up dirt. I’m sure every presidential candidate did this.

    Along the way comes a rumor or request to look into Trump’s involvement with Russia. This would be a natural question for Jeb Bush or Hillary Clinton. It is no secret that Trump had business dealings with Russians. So those digging up dirt hire former British Intelligence with connections to Russia to dig up dirt.

    As one article put it, a dossier is basically high grade gossip. So this guy finds some salacious gossip on Trump that was intended or should have become the basis for more investigation.

    But to make matters more interesting the dossier alleges that there was collusion with Trump and Russians which matches what is basically indisputable evidence that the Russians did interfere in the election.

    Further, Comey as FBI director briefed Trump about the dossier and the allegations in it.

    So what I don’t understand is why is there controversy on who hired the investigation? The question still remains: Are any of the allegations in the dossier true?

    It doesn’t appear that the dossier had any benefit for Dems in the election, as it wasn’t known about until after the election.

    So are you mad at the DNC over this? If so, why?


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    This guy lays it out.

    http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...llusion-russia

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  3. #33
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    The Trump Dossier Dam Is Breaking

    A U.S. political party applied to a hostile power for lurid stories about a domestic opponent.

    By Holman W. Jenkins, Jr.
    Oct. 27, 2017 6:37 p.m. ET

    ’Tis the season of tossing out nondisclosure agreements. Victims and employees of Harvey Weinstein clamor to be released from their NDAs so they can talk about his abuse. Perkins Coie, the Washington law firm for the Democratic Party and Hillary Clinton campaign, showed the way by voluntarily releasing Fusion GPS from its duty to remain mum on Democrats who funded the notorious Trump dossier.

    May the example catch on.

    Journalists who investigated the Trump dossier now say their Democratic sources lied to them. That’s already a start. Please, Democrats, release journalists from their confidentiality agreements so they can tell us more about your lying.

    The revelations provide new context for Harry Reid’s “October surprise,” his attempt 10 days before Election Day to lever the dossier’s allegations into the press with a public letter to then-FBI Director James Comey accusing him of withholding “explosive information.”

    Mr. Reid knows how the responsible press works. Implausible, scurrilous and unsupported allegations are not reportable, but a government official making public reference to such allegations is reportable.

    Mr. Reid, though, failed to mention his party’s role in concocting the allegations, much less that the manner of its doing so left him no reason to suppose the charges were anything but tall tales spun by Russian intelligence officials in response to danglings of Democratic money.

    This is a completely novel tactic in U.S. politics, applying to a hostile foreign power for lurid stories about a domestic opponent. Mr. Reid, please tell us more about your role.

    Let’s also hear from Adam Schiff, top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee.

    He claimed on TV to have “circumstantial” and “more than circumstantial” evidence of Trump collusion with Russia. In the event, what he delivered in a committee hearing was a litany of routine, innocuous business and diplomatic contacts between Trump associates and Russian citizens, interspersed with claims from the Trump dossier.

    He failed to mention, though, that the Trump dossier was manufactured by Democrats paying a D.C. law firm to pay a D.C. “research” firm to pay a retired British spook to pay unknown, unidentified Russians to tell stories about Mr. Trump, in reckless disregard for whether the stories were true.

    Mr. Schiff, a Harvard Law graduate, will know the phrase is not our coinage. “Reckless disregard” is the standard by which the Supreme Court says, even in a country that bends over backward to protect the press at the expense of public figures, the press can be held liable for defamatory untruths about a public figure.

    Even so, journalists are presumed to know their sources, not to have paid a long chain of surrogates to elicit sensational claims from perfect strangers, let alone anonymous agents of a foreign regime with a known habit of disinformation. It is impossible to exaggerate how reckless Democrats have been under this standard. If they found the Trump dossier on the sidewalk, they’d be in a better ethical position now. Let’s hear what Mr. Schiff knew and when he knew it.

    Finally, let us hear from James Comey.

    The Trump dossier was reckless and irresponsible in the extreme, but only consequential after Election Day. It didn’t prevent Mr. Trump from becoming president.

    In the new spirit of non-non-disclosure, it’s time for Mr. Comey to tell us about the Russian intelligence scam that may really have changed the election outcome.

    In closed hearings, he reportedly acknowledged that his intervention in the Hillary Clinton email case was prompted by what is now understood to have been planted, fake Russian intelligence. The fake Russian intelligence purported to discuss a nonexistent email between then-DNC chief Debbie Wasserman Schultz and George Soros-employed activist Leonard Benardo.

    This led directly to Mr. Comey’s second intervention, reopening the case 11 days before Election Day, a shocking development that appears now to have moved enough votes into Mr. Trump’s column to account for his win.

    At the time, the press was all too happy to blame Bill Clinton for his wife’s loss when Mr. Comey, for nonclassified consumption, cited Mr. Clinton’s tarmac meeting with Attorney General Loretta Lynch as the reason for his intervention.

    The press is silent now. The new story satisfies nobody’s agenda, and only makes the FBI look foolish. Mr. Trump is not eager to hear his victory portrayed as an FBI-precipitated accident. Democrats cling to their increasingly washed-out theory of Trump-Russia collusion.

    And yet, if Mr. Comey’s antic intervention in response to Russian disinformation inadvertently led to Mr. Trump becoming president, this was the most consequential outcome by far.
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-tru...ing-1509143847

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  4. #34
    Did the incredibly long Trump thread get killed or are my site navigation skills being exposed?

    Either way, as expected Manafort and Gates get arrested in what is likely an attempt to get them to roll on higher ups in the Trump campaign. The actual relevance of the dossier may never matter (trying to bring it back on topic). Then Papadopoulos pleads guilty to lying about his involvement with Russian officials.

  5. #35
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    Did the incredibly long Trump thread get killed or are my site navigation skills being exposed?

    Either way, as expected Manafort and Gates get arrested in what is likely an attempt to get them to roll on higher ups in the Trump campaign. The actual relevance of the dossier may never matter (trying to bring it back on topic). Then Papadopoulos pleads guilty to lying about his involvement with Russian officials.
    Whenever a special prosecutor is appointed, you can bet that he or she will find someone to charge with a crime. Usually at a minimum there is someone who lies to the FBI during the investigation. This is often about something totally unrelated to the underlying crime being investigated. Scooter Libby, for example. Federal prosecutors have tremendous power. It’s actually pretty scary.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Whenever a special prosecutor is appointed, you can bet that he or she will find someone to charge with a crime. Usually at a minimum there is someone who lies to the FBI during the investigation. This is often about something totally unrelated to the underlying crime being investigated. Scooter Libby, for example. Federal prosecutors have tremendous power. It’s actually pretty scary.

    So, so true. if there is a special prosecutor, someone is going to get charged. And if you get charged, you are going to plead out or go to trial. There are no withdrawals of all charges by the federal government. They don't make mistakes. Ever. Ask them.

    If the feds are coming after you, you are not going to be in a happy place. It is frightening for those charged.

  7. #37
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    The Russia Dossier

    Here are all the Papadopoulos papers.

    https://www.lawfareblog.com/george-p...plea-agreement

    It will be interesting to see where this leads. In the legacy news media and on lefty sites (sorry for repeating myself) there’s breathless anticipation of higher-ups being charged based on this guy’s testimony. (Also, the Clinton and DNC involvement in the Russia dossier, and all their lying about it, are described as absolutely meaningless. That can’t be true.)

    On the other hand, on conservative commentary sites the Papadopolous plea agreement is a big nothing burger. That can’t be true either.

    This is by a a former DOJ career prosecutor who now writes for conservative publications:

    http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...ulpatory-trump

    He makes some good points but you know what they say about putting lipstick 💄 on a pig.

    :snacking:
    Last edited by LA Ute; 10-31-2017 at 05:54 AM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Yes, I am posting a lot about this because I’m as angry about it as I’ve ever been about any political issue. Not because I like Trump — I don’t — but because if what this dirty trick on steroids has done to the country.

    Sen. Susan Collins calls for DNC, Clinton campaign members to re-testify on dossier

    https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/sen...fy-on-dossier/

    The last time I was even close to this angry was when Nixon betrayed everyone who supported him and the entire country by engaging in the Watergate cover-up.
    Ah, Watergate, the good old days. I don't remember you being angry as it was unfolding.

  9. #39
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    The Russia Dossier

    Quote Originally Posted by Irving Washington View Post
    Ah, Watergate, the good old days. I don't remember you being angry as it was unfolding.
    I was mad at that point, but at the mean old Democrats who were trying to do poor Nixon in. He resigned while I was on my mission. When I got back in 1975 I read Theodore White’s “Breach of Faith” and felt very betrayed by Tricky Dick. I had been a true believer.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  10. #40
    Fusion GPS calls for full disclosure of their firm's testimony to Congress about the Steele Dossier.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/fir...ks-out-n834231

    We're all in the dark about exactly what Mueller is up to - understandably, he's a prosecutor working his way up the food chain - but is there any good reason why Congress is sitting on much of what they've found out? Especially if the Republicans decide to wrap up their investigation?

  11. #41
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    Fusion GPS calls for full disclosure of their firm's testimony to Congress about the Steele Dossier.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/fir...ks-out-n834231

    We're all in the dark about exactly what Mueller is up to - understandably, he's a prosecutor working his way up the food chain - but is there any good reason why Congress is sitting on much of what they've found out? Especially if the Republicans decide to wrap up their investigation?
    I think everything should come out. Everything. What do you think about the FBI's refusal to cooperate in providing information about the Russia dossier?

    A Moment of Contempt

    Justice and the FBI continue to flout House subpoenas.


    I personally am sick of all the gamesmanship and would love to see all the information, not matter how ugly it is for anyone. The people deserve to know.

    The House Intelligence Committee has set a deadline of Wednesday for the Department of Justice and FBI to turn over documents related to the Christopher Steele dossier purporting to investigate ties between the Trump campaign and Russia. If they fail to comply, Speaker Paul Ryan will need to back up Congress’s institutional prerogatives and hold the individuals responsible to contempt proceedings and possible impeachment.

    Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein and FBI Director Christopher Wray have had the subpoenas since Aug. 24, but they have responded with excuses, delays and misdirection. The Justice Department has refused to provide Congress with the most basic documents demanded under the subpoenas. These include reports detailing the FBI’s interactions with sources such as Mr. Steele, who was hired by the opposition research firm Fusion GPS, which was funded by associates of the Hillary Clinton campaign.

    Justice also refuses to make available crucial witnesses, including FBI agent Peter Strzok (a lead investigator in the Trump-Russia probe), former Associate Deputy Attorney General Bruce Ohr (whose wife worked for Fusion GPS) and FBI attorney James Baker (former FBI Director Jim Comey’s right-hand man). Justice is also still sitting on months of anti-Trump text messages between Mr. Strzok and FBI lawyer Lisa Page.


    This isn’t acceptable, and neither Justice nor the FBI has offered a valid reason for their resistance. Senior Intelligence Committee members and staff are cleared to read classified information, and Congress has the constitutional authority to oversee the executive branch whose offices it funds. The excuse that such requests interfere with a Justice Department Inspector General probe wouldn’t pass a middle-grade separation-of-powers exam.

    A contempt brawl would not be fun, but Congress has already abandoned too much power to the executive. Mr. Ryan risks turning oversight into a power without enforcement ability. A Republican Congress holding Republican office-holders responsible for flouting subpoenas would send a useful signal across the government. And it might give President Trump or White House Counsel Don McGahn new incentive to intervene with Justice and order compliance.

    Appeared in the January 3, 2018, print edition.

    Last edited by LA Ute; 01-03-2018 at 11:50 AM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

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