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Thread: Life in the Trump Era, Part 2

  1. #1621
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    If only Obama has agreed to everything the Tea Party wanted, we would have had bipartisan working government . . . .
    You're beginning to see it now!

    (I'm not a Tea Party guy but they didn't just arise out of nowhere. They were a reaction to the Dems wildly overplaying their winning hand after the 2008 landslide.)

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  2. #1622
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Yes, we can agree to disagree. I did say the Republicans were (and are) the gang that couldn't shoot straight. They were idiots about cooperating with the Obama White House. The Freedom Caucus is a bunch of people more beholden to their donors -- or more charitably, to their base -- than to their constituents or to the country. (This malady is not confined to Republicans!) They regularly gum up the works of Congress.

    But President Obama doesn't get a pass. When Republicans did try to reach out to him, he infamously reminded them that elections have consequences: "I won." Well, that's one way of looking at our system of checks and balances. It probably works better in Chicago than in Washington. He's also the guy who said "I have a phone and a pen" and often tried to rule by executive order. (Not the only president to do that. Doesn't make it right.) That he was slaughtered in both midterm congressional elections during his two terms suggests that the electorate was unhappy with his approach.

    Look, when Medicare was enacted it was a huge change in the country's approach to how health care works. Over half the Republicans in the House voted for it. Almost half the Republicans in the Senate did too. Lyndon Johnson knew how to work compromises and bipartisan legislation. And...those laws have endured. I don't think Republicans were simply more reasonable in those days.
    You'll have to remind me what issue Obama was speaking to when he said "I won."
    Incidently, when McConnell blocked moderate Merricl Garlands nomination, he essentially said "I'm betting that I'll be able to say "I won."

  3. #1623
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irving Washington View Post
    You'll have to remind me what issue Obama was speaking to when he said "I won."
    Incidently, when McConnell blocked moderate Merricl Garlands nomination, he essentially said "I'm betting that I'll be able to say "I won."
    The first "I won" I know of:

    https://www.politico.com/story/2009/...p-i-won-017862

    Maybe Cocaine Mitch was just bitterly playing neener-neener.

    I've been thinking a bit about our earlier discussion. My poli sci degree is pretty useless except for political discussions (and there's some doubt about its usefulness even there), but as I try to understand what's really going on I am pretty depressed. I think our political class -- across the ideological spectrum -- is really sub-par these days. I wish I could sit down with J.D. Williams, Jim Mayfield, and R.J. Snow and talk about it with them.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  4. #1624
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    The first "I won" I know of:

    https://www.politico.com/story/2009/...p-i-won-017862

    Maybe Cocaine Mitch was just bitterly playing neener-neener.

    I've been thinking a bit about our earlier discussion. My poli sci degree is pretty useless except for political discussions (and there's some doubt about its usefulness even there), but as I try to understand what's really going on I am pretty depressed. I think our political class -- across the ideological spectrum -- is really sub-par these days. I wish I could sit down with J.D. Williams, Jim Mayfield, and R.J. Snow and talk about it with them.
    The hardest part of that discussion would be how the problem is mostly the electorate. "We have met the enemy, and they are us."

  5. #1625
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    The first "I won" I know of:

    https://www.politico.com/story/2009/...p-i-won-017862

    Maybe Cocaine Mitch was just bitterly playing neener-neener.

    I've been thinking a bit about our earlier discussion. My poli sci degree is pretty useless except for political discussions (and there's some doubt about its usefulness even there), but as I try to understand what's really going on I am pretty depressed. I think our political class -- across the ideological spectrum -- is really sub-par these days. I wish I could sit down with J.D. Williams, Jim Mayfield, and R.J. Snow and talk about it with them.
    To me, the real problem today is that nobody has any incentive to compromise, and has just the opposite incentive to avoid a primary from a more extreme idealogue. There are so few competitive districts or states, no one has any incentive to move to the middle. And because of Citizens United and the rise of superpacs, pols have as much allegiance to the Kochs or Adelson (for example) as to the party or to leadership. Sam Rayburn, Lyndon Johnson, Tip O'Neil, Bob Dole, etc. could twist arms. Much harder now. The tail (freedom caucus) now wags the dog (leadership).
    Last edited by concerned; 04-17-2019 at 10:07 AM.

  6. #1626
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    To me, the real problem today is that nobody has any incentive to compromise, and has just the opposite incentive to avoid a primary from a more extreme idealogue. There are so few competitive districts or states, no one has any incentive to move to the middle. And because of Citizens United and the rise of superpacs, pols have as much allegiance to the Kochs or Adelson (for example) as to the party or to leadership. Sam Rayburn, Lyndon Johnson, Tip O'Neil, Bob Dole, etc. could twist arms. Much harder now. The tail (freedom caucus) now wags the dog (leadership).
    Very true. Not only that but if you DO for some reason compromise you are going to get nailed by the extremists in the electorate at the next primary. Let us not forget that Bob Bennett, despite overwhelming popularity among Utahns, didn't make it out of primaries as an incumbent because he was 'too liberal' based off of some of the compromises he had made.

  7. #1627
    https://www.justice.gov/storage/report.pdf


    The report we've all been waiting for. Looking forward to the DOJ OIG FISA report as well -- May or June.
    “Children and dogs are as necessary to the welfare of the country as Wall Street and the railroads.” -- Harry S. Truman

    "You never soar so high as when you stoop down to help a child or an animal." -- Jewish Proverb

    "Three-time Pro Bowler Eric Weddle the most versatile, and maybe most intelligent, safety in the game." -- SI, 9/7/15, p. 107.

  8. #1628
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mUUser View Post
    https://www.justice.gov/storage/report.pdf


    The report we've all been waiting for. Looking forward to the DOJ OIG FISA report as well -- May or June.
    The legal question is going to be whether it's possible to commit obstruction of justice when there is no underlying crime. Barr doesn't think so. Maybe the legal fight over that issue will give CNN and MSNBC, along with countless lawyer talking heads, something to talk about up through the 2020 election and beyond.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  9. #1629
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Analysis: True.

    The obstruction case against Trump is not conclusive. In fact, his indiscretion and ineptness could be seen as evidence that he did not think he was breaking the law. But at the same time, he recklessly created the appearance that he was guilty of something, disregarding sound legal advice from people who knew better. If arrogant stupidity were a crime, Trump would be guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
    https://reason.com/2019/04/18/trump-...ant-stupidity/

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  10. #1630
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    The legal question is going to be whether it's possible to commit obstruction of justice when there is no underlying crime. Barr doesn't think so. Maybe the legal fight over that issue will give CNN and MSNBC, along with countless lawyer talking heads, something to talk about up through the 2020 election and beyond.


    Going exactly how one might imagine. No minds were changed. Cherry picking and extreme tribalism at its finest. This won't stop -- not in 2 years, not in 6 years. We are a nation past healing.

    I am, however, amused the Mueller Report called out CNN and Buzzfeed specifically. Zero credibility left for those two organizations.
    “Children and dogs are as necessary to the welfare of the country as Wall Street and the railroads.” -- Harry S. Truman

    "You never soar so high as when you stoop down to help a child or an animal." -- Jewish Proverb

    "Three-time Pro Bowler Eric Weddle the most versatile, and maybe most intelligent, safety in the game." -- SI, 9/7/15, p. 107.

  11. #1631
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    The legal question is going to be whether it's possible to commit obstruction of justice when there is no underlying crime. Barr doesn't think so.
    How broadly could this view be applied? To any of us regular citizens? "Unless you already have absolute proof of me committing a crime, I'm instructing all my employees to disregard your investigation, destroy all our backups, shred the financial records. Catch me if you can... but you won't be able to. Catch-22, in my favor!"

    Maybe this could get DUI laws thrown out - the part about forcing people to complete a breathelyzer, or it's assumed they're intoxicated. (I'm likely mangling this law and interpretation, since I don't drink and don't really care about DUIs unless somebody gets hurt)

    Or was Barr's point that it's impossible for the President to obstruct justice, because he's the President? Didn't he write a memo to that effect?

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