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Thread: Life in the Trump Era, Part 2

  1. #1141
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    I agree. After all the dust is settled, Comey appears as a spazz, an eagle scout who did what he thought was best, but made everything worse.
    He fell into the timeless trap of trying to please everyone, or nearly everyone.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  2. #1142
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    He fell into the timeless trap of trying to please everyone, or nearly everyone.

    And he assumed that Hillary would win and that he would not affect the outcome, and he didn't want Chaffetz, Gowdy, et al coming after him after the election. He was trying to inoculate himself and the FBI from the house intelligence committee.

  3. #1143
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Ugh. Not America's finest moment.

    The time a president deported 1 million Mexican Americans for supposedly stealing U.S. jobs

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.6f1b21bfd9e6

    This all took place during the 1930s. Oddly enough, Herbert Hoover is (justly) mentioned repeatedly, and Trump is mentioned three times, but Franklin Roosevelt's name doesn't appear in this story.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  4. #1144
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    He fell into the timeless trap of trying to please everyone, or nearly everyone.
    Let's not forget the utter incompetence of Loretta Lynch, a vacuum which sucked in some good people.

    Aside from all of this, by all accounts of people I know in the FBI, Comey was highly liked and respected as an FBI Director. There was some initial skepticism considering who appointed him, but it seems they also like and respect Wray. There was fear he would be a puppet of Trump and that doesn't appear to be the case.


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  5. #1145
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    What Was Bruce Ohr Doing?

    Justice releases some damning documents, but much of the truth is still classified.

    ByKimberley A. Strassel


    The Federal Bureau of Investigation and Justice Department have continued to insist they did nothing wrong in their Trump-Russia investigation. This week should finally bring an end to that claim, given the clear evidence of malfeasance via the use of Bruce Ohr.

    Mr. Ohr was until last year associate deputy attorney general. He began feeding information to the FBI from dossier author Christopher Steele in late 2016—after the FBI had terminated Mr. Steele as a confidential informant for violating the bureau’s rules. He also collected dirt from Glenn Simpson, cofounder of Fusion GPS, the opposition-research firm that worked for Hillary Clinton’s campaign and employed Mr. Steele. Altogether, the FBI pumped Mr. Ohr for information at least a dozen times, debriefs that remain in classified 302 forms.

    All the while, Mr. Ohr failed to disclose on financial forms that his wife, Nellie, worked alongside Mr. Steele in 2016, getting paid by Mr. Simpson for anti-Trump research. The Justice Department has now turned over Ohr documents to Congress that show how deeply tied up he was with the Clinton crew—with dozens of emails, calls, meetings and notes that describe his interactions and what he collected.

    Mr. Ohr’s conduct is itself deeply troubling. He was acting as a witness (via FBI interviews) in a case being overseen by a Justice Department in which he held a very senior position. He appears to have concealed this role from at least some superiors, since Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein testified that he’d been unaware of Mr. Ohr’s intermediary status.

    Lawyers meanwhile note that it is a crime for a federal official to participate in any government matter in which he has a financial interest. Fusion’s bank records presumably show Nellie Ohr, and by extension her husband, benefiting from the Trump opposition research that Mr. Ohr continued to pass to the FBI. The Justice Department declined to comment.


    But for all Mr. Ohr’s misdeeds, the worse misconduct is by the FBI and Justice Department. It’s bad enough that the bureau relied on a dossier crafted by a man in the employ of the rival presidential campaign. Bad enough that it never informed the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court of that dossier’s provenance. And bad enough that the FBI didn’t fire Mr. Steele as a confidential human source in September 2016 when it should have been obvious he was leaking FBI details to the press to harm Donald Trump’s electoral chances. It terminated him only when it was absolutely forced to, after Mr. Steele gave an on-the-record interview on Oct. 31, 2016.

    But now we discover the FBI continued to go to this discredited informant in its investigation after the firing—by funneling his information via a Justice Department cutout. The FBI has an entire manual governing the use of confidential sources, with elaborate rules on validations, standards and documentation. Mr. Steele failed these standards. The FBI then evaded its own program to get at his info anyway.


    And it did so even though we have evidence that lead FBI investigators may have suspected Mr. Ohr was a problem. An Oct. 7, 2016, text message from now-fired FBI agent Peter Strzok to his colleague Lisa Page reads: “Jesus. More BO leaks in the NYT,” which could be a reference to Mr. Ohr.


    The FBI may also have been obtaining, via Mr. Ohr, information that came from a man the FBI had never even vetted as a source—Mr. Simpson. Mr. Steele had at least worked with the FBI before; Mr. Simpson was a paid political operative. And the Ohr notes raise further doubts about Mr. Simpson’s forthrightness. In House testimony in November 2017, Mr. Simpson said only that he reached out to Mr. Ohr after the election, and at Mr. Steele’s suggestion. But Mr. Ohr’s inbox shows an email from Mr. Simpson dated Aug. 22, 2016 that reads, in full: “Can u ring.”


    The Justice Department hasn’t tried to justify any of this; in fact, last year it quietly demoted Mr. Ohr. In what smells of a further admission of impropriety, it didn’t initially turn over the Ohr documents; Congress had to fight to get them.


    But it raises at least two further crucial questions. First, who authorized or knew about this improper procedure? Mr. Strzok seems to be in the thick of it, having admitted to Congress interactions with Mr. Ohr at the end of 2016. While Mr. Rosenstein disclaims knowledge, Mr. Ohr’s direct supervisor at the time was the previous deputy attorney general, Sally Yates. Who else in former FBI Director Jim Comey’s inner circle and at the Obama Justice Department nodded at the FBI’s back-door interaction with a sacked source and a Clinton operative?


    Second, did the FBI continue to submit Steele- or Simpson-sourced information to the FISA court? Having informed the court in later applications that it had fired Mr. Steele, the FBI would have had no business continuing to use any Steele information laundered through an intermediary.

    We could have these answers pronto; they rest in part in those Ohr 302 forms. And so once again: a call for President Trump to declassify.


    https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-wa...d=hp_opin_pos3
    Last edited by LA Ute; 08-17-2018 at 03:11 PM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  6. #1146
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    This reminds me of the Cold War. I wonder what cyber-tactics we are using on the Russians. Microsoft said it successfully thwarted an operation tied to RUSSIAN military intelligence that targeted conservative think tanks and the U.S. Senate:

    The company said it executed a court order giving it control of six websites created by a group known as Fancy Bear. The group was behind the 2016 hack of the Democratic National Committee and directed by the GRU, the Russian military intelligence unit, according to cybersecurity firms.

    The websites could have been used to launch cyberattacks on candidates and other political groups ahead of November's elections, the company said.

    The RUSSIAN targets included the Hudson Institute and the International Republican Institute.

    Microsoft said the domains were "associated with the Russian government and known as Strontium, or alternatively Fancy Bear or APT28." The company said it has no evidence that the domains were used in successful attacks but that it was working with the potential target organizations.

    Hackers could have used the domains to send emails to Senate staffers or people working for the Hudson Institute or the International Republican Institute in an attempt to trick them into handing over information, like their passwords.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  7. #1147
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Get ready for the Tweet-tirade from Trump. The noose appears to be tightening as Mueller takes another step closer.

    Manafort found guilty on 8 counts.
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/paul-ma...-live-updates/

    Paul Manafort, President Trump's former campaign chairman, has been found guilty on five counts of tax fraud, one count of failing to disclose his foreign bank accounts and two counts of bank fraud.

    The jury was unable to reach consensus on 10 of the 18 counts in the bank fraud trial of former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort. Judge T.S. Ellis III will declare a mistrial on the 10 unresolved counts but is accepting the jury's verdict on the remaining eight counts. Ellis decided there was "manifest necessity" to proceed.


    Manafort verdict:


    • 5 counts tax fraud: Guilty
    • 2 counts bank fraud: Guilty
    • 1 count failure to disclose foreign bank account: Guilty
    • 10 counts: Jury unable to reach consensus
    Cohen pleads guilty to 8 counts.
    https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-ne...fbi/index.html

    President Trump's former personal attorney Michael Cohen pleaded guilty today to eight criminal counts including tax fraud, false statements to a bank and campaign finance violations tied to his work for Trump.

    According to the court filing, Cohen also failed to report $30,000 in proceeds from the sale of a Hermes Birkin bag.

  8. #1148
    Quote Originally Posted by U-Ute View Post
    Get ready for the Tweet-tirade from Trump. The noose appears to be tightening as Mueller takes another step closer.

    Manafort found guilty on 8 counts.
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/paul-ma...-live-updates/



    Cohen pleads guilty to 8 counts.
    https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-ne...fbi/index.html

    If the campaign finance stuff is illegal for Cohen, and he was directed to do it by Trump, how is it not illegal for Trump? When does the real push for impeachment start? These have been and will be such dark times for our country. Sad.

  9. #1149
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    If the campaign finance stuff is illegal for Cohen, and he was directed to do it by Trump, how is it not illegal for Trump? When does the real push for impeachment start? These have been and will be such dark times for our country. Sad.
    Yep. I’d like to know what the actual crime was. Most campaign finance law
    violations are punished with fines, so this must have been a big one.

    I also want to figure out the connection to Mueller‘s investigation, which is focused on collusion with Russia and not on campaign finance law. At least that’s what I think Is the focus. That’s why Mueller farmed this prosecution out to the US attorney in New York City. It might be that Cohen knows something about collusion that he will now share with the Mueller team as part of his plea deal.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  10. #1150
    Lanny Davis said tonight that Cohen has information that would of interest to Mueller, and also info about the Trump foundation that he would be happy to tell the state authorities conducting that investigation. Said Cohen will tell everything he knows.

    I will bet that he did meet with the Russians in Prague ion July or August 2016 and had other meetings with them on behalf of the campaign.

  11. #1151
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Life in the Trump Era, Part 2

    So now we have two lying scoundrels accusing each other of lying. This reminds me of the time when the newly-victorious fully communist Vietnam was in a war with Pol Pot’s Cambodia.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  12. #1152
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Yep. I’d like to know what the actual crime was. Most campaign finance law
    violations are punished with fines, so this must have been a big one.

    I also want to figure out the connection to Mueller‘s investigation, which is focused on collusion with Russia and not on campaign finance law. At least that’s what I think Is the focus. That’s why Mueller farmed this prosecution out to the US attorney in New York City. It might be that Cohen knows something about collusion that he will now share with the Mueller team as part of his plea deal.
    He is using the campaign finance law as leverage to get Cohen to testify on what really happened with Russia and what Trump knew.

  13. #1153
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    So now we have two lying scoundrels accusing each other of lying. This reminds me of the time when the newly-victorious fully communist Vietnam was in a war with Pol Pot’s Cambodia.
    John Gotti and Sammy the Bull is the more apt analogy. Or Jimmy Conway and Goodfellas.

    Other than a mob boss, who talks like this?


    Donald J. TrumpVerified account @realDonaldTrumpFollowingFollowing
    @realDonaldTrump
    I feel very badly for Paul Manafort and his wonderful family. “Justice” took a 12 year old tax case, among other things, applied tremendous pressure on him and, unlike Michael Cohen, he refused to “break” - make up stories in order to get a “deal.” Such respect for a brave man!

    Interestingly, nothing in the charging documents or the information said that Trump directed the payments. Cohen volunteered that in open court. He is a man who feels betrayed and wounded at the deepest level, it seems.

    Apparently he is also prepared to say that Trump knew about the DNC hack in advance and blessed it or participated in it. Will have to wait and see what corroboration there is for all of this.





  14. #1154
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    On the day Manafort was convicted and Cohen plead guilty, Fox and Friends were discussing....

    https://secondnexus.com/news/fox-fri...2dc93302272904

  15. #1155
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Life in the Trump Era, Part 2

    Interesting thoughts from a well-known conservative blog that doesn’t like Trump but dislikes Democrats more:

    Let’s be clear. The fact that Cohen entered this guilty plea doesn’t mean he actually broke campaign finance laws. There is a substantial argument that the payments to Stormy Daniels and the other woman weren’t crimes. Election law expert Bradley Smith, among others, maintains that paying hush money to silence people with potentially damaging information on a political candidate does not constitute a campaign contribution. In my view, this is a murky area of the law.

    Cohen simply decided not to contest the campaign finance count against him in order to avoid major prison time for violations he apparently couldn’t plausibly contest — tax evasion and bank fraud. These are violations that, unlike the election law count, carry severe sentences.

    Cohen’s admission on the campaign contribution count has no legal force except as to Cohen. It doesn’t apply to Trump, though it’s quite possible that Cohen will provide testimony the prosecutors can use to argue that Trump violated the law under their theory of it.

    My final point, for now, is that the payments to the women, especially Stormy Daniels, probably did more to impact the 2016 election than any action of the Russians. I’ve never thought the hacking of DNC and John Podesta emails had any appreciable impact. These were basically dry holes when it came to Hillary Clinton.

    The notion that Russian social media activity affected the outcome of the election strikes me as ludicrous. That activity, some of which was anti-Clinton and some of which was anti-Trump, was a drop in the river of crap that flowed through social media during the 2016 campaign.

    But a credible allegation that Trump had sex with a porn star is different. It might have cost Trump enough support among deeply religious voters to change the outcome of a very close election.

    This doesn’t make the hush money payments criminal — that’s a purely legal question, one that apparently has no obvious answer. But it does suggest that the alleged violation was consequential and not your garden variety violation in which a campaign receives a bit more money than it should have.
    https://www.powerlineblog.com/archiv...uilty-plea.php

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  16. #1156
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Cohen’s admission on the campaign contribution count has no legal force except as to Cohen. It doesn’t apply to Trump, though it’s quite possible that Cohen will provide testimony the prosecutors can use to argue that Trump violated the law under their theory of it.
    Unindicted co-conspirator.

  17. #1157
    Senior Member Scorcho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Interesting thoughts from a well-known conservative blog that doesn’t like Trump but dislikes Democrats more:



    https://www.powerlineblog.com/archiv...uilty-plea.php
    good stuff, thanks for posting that.

    I'm way out my league discussing this, but I don't see any difference between Trump and Bill Clinton. Maybe this is a simpleton's approach, but both men had extra-marital affairs and lied about them. The timing is different, but other than that?

    I would think their punishments would be identical, am I wrong?

  18. #1158
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorcho View Post
    good stuff, thanks for posting that.

    I'm way out my league discussing this, but I don't see any difference between Trump and Bill Clinton. Maybe this is a simpleton's approach, but both men had extra-marital affairs and lied about them. The timing is different, but other than that?

    I would think their punishments would be identical, am I wrong?
    Trump violated the election laws; Clinton did not. Clinton committed perjury; Trump has not (yet). Count 3 of the articles of impeachment against Clinton was obstruction of justice for lying in a depo and otherwise lying about Lewinsky. Trump hasn't committed perjury, but his acts of obstruction are much more extensive, even with what we know now.

  19. #1159
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Interesting thoughts from a well-known conservative blog that doesn’t like Trump but dislikes Democrats more:



    https://www.powerlineblog.com/archiv...uilty-plea.php

    Seems pretty premature to come to any conclusion on any of this and what it means. It seems that Cohen has much more to say and is poised to say it. It is just as likely that these hush payments are the smaller issues.

    How much will America tolerate being verifiably lied to is a good question. First Trump knew nothing of the payments, then Cohen did it on his own, then it was campaign money and now Trump is saying he paid for it himself. Which of the 4 versions should we believe?

    Additionally Trump tweeting praise to Manafort for not breaking... what could he possibly 'break' on if there was nothing wrong. For a guy many people believe is smart, he can't help but step all over himself.

    It's time for Trump supporters (I know you aren't one LA) to stop defending him.

  20. #1160
    This is why you should never trust social media



  21. #1161
    The current Republican Congress has to impeach Trump.

    I think one thing worse than Trump in office is Trump out of office at the hands of the Democrats. I am concerned that a Democrat-led Trump impeachment would result in a completely unleashed ex-president Trump, no longer even marginally bound by the restrictions of the office, and that could break this country.

    If the GOP does not impeach Trump, the Democrats would need to refrain from doing so. But I don’t know if/how the Democrats could work with Trump for 2 years to ensure a 2020 election that would be seen by the vast majority of Americans as valid and legitimate. That attempt would just as likely foment concern of collusion between the parties to subvert democracy, which would be even worse than how things are now.

  22. #1162
    Quote Originally Posted by jrj84105 View Post
    The current Republican Congress has to impeach Trump.

    I think one thing worse than Trump in office is Trump out of office at the hands of the Democrats. I am concerned that a Democrat-led Trump impeachment would result in a completely unleashed ex-president Trump, no longer even marginally bound by the restrictions of the office, and that could break this country.

    If the GOP does not impeach Trump, the Democrats would need to refrain from doing so. But I don’t know if/how the Democrats could work with Trump for 2 years to ensure a 2020 election that would be seen by the vast majority of Americans as valid and legitimate. That attempt would just as likely foment concern of collusion between the parties to subvert democracy, which would be even worse than how things are now.
    Congress is not going to do anything before the midterms, period. Republicans are not going to remove their own, unless their is a huge push from their base (which does’t seem to care what trump does as long as it pisses off the fake media and the dems).

  23. #1163
    After midterms. If the Dems win, Congress need to broker a 2 year peace that includes removing Trump and “encouraging” Pence to step aside after placing a mutually acceptable “never trumper” in the line of succession. Two years of bipartisan law-and-order governance from the center while trust in the system is restored.

    Maybe Romney gets to be president after all.

  24. #1164
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    I don't think the coalition she describes will last, but generally I think she's right.

    In the aftermath of Tuesday’s news that both former Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort and his lawyer Michael Cohen were found on the wrong side of the law in separate court cases, the question asked most frequently by the press, Democrats and “Never Trump” Republicans is, “Where do Trump voters go now?”

    The answer is the same that it has always been since they first started asking it Nov. 9, 2016: With Trump.

    This new conservative populist coalition is not the fluke the political class hoped it was. Donald Trump did not cause it, he is just the result of it, so no matter what he does, it continues. It is predicated on them, not him.


    The coalition is a strike at not just tone deafness in both Congress and the White House but also high levels of incompetence, negligence and shoddy performance at agencies, as well as inept social services, a bloated and incompetent bureaucracy, endless wars and multinational agreements and treaties that don’t benefit average people.


    These voters knew who Trump was going in, they knew he was a thrice-married, Playmate dating, Howard Stern regular who had the morals of an alley cat. They were willing to look past all of that because of how institutions had failed their communities for three consecutive presidencies.


    Right now the value of Trump to the Trump voter is he is all that stands between them and handing the keys to Washington back over to the people inside Washington. That’s it. He’s their only option. You’ve got to pick the insiders or him.


    So the question becomes: Can the Democrats pick someone who is Trump? Someone who just says, “I don’t trust anybody in Washington either. They all suck. The Democrats sucks, the Republicans suck and Trump’s a crook.”

    If they could pick a Trump for their side, then Trump could have a problem. But as it stands we only really only have two parties; the party of the governing elite and the party of Trump.


    That is why they stick with him.
    https://nypost.com/2018/08/22/why-tr...s-convictions/

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  25. #1165
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I don't think the coalition she describes will last, but generally I think she's right.
    If the general angst and anger manifested by the rise of Trump - and Sanders - is ignored by both parties, the future of the nation is at risk. If nothing else, Trump awakened a sleeping giant of large groups of people who've checked out of politics, who've felt left behind, as did the surprising, spontaneous rise of Sanders.

    Can the torch of populism be picked up by others who aren't Kleptocrats? (Pruitt, Collins & Hunter further expose the Trump culture of corruption, which I think most Trump supporters just don't want to believe.)

    Unlike Nixon, whose approval rating dropped to the low 20s, I think Trump can stay above 30%... until somebody can pick up the baton to represent the forgotten folks who've given up on politics. (I think a slight majority of Republicans reject the ethno-nationalism most recently manifested by Larry Kudlow inviting white nationalists to his house for dinner. We're beyond that as a nation... I hope.)

    The same dynamic exists on the Democratic side. We're in the home stretch of the mid-terms, so the day of reckoning is not here yet for Democrats, but how do they find somebody who can bridge the energy of the Sanders-Cortez left, with the electability of somebody closer to the center? Democrats are getting a free pass right now due to everything happening/being exposed in Trump's ecosystem, but they have a serious uphill challenge, too.

  26. #1166
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Lawyers are always fascinated to hear what jurors say about which witnesses they believed, how they felt about the way the attorneys for each side presented the case, and so forth. Here is a juror from the Manafort trial talking in some depth about those subjects.

    https://youtu.be/Xw0xH0-8oZQ

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  27. #1167
    I actually think they are all off the mark. The silent majority still exists and is probably bigger than ever. But this group is largely moderate.

    The Democrats have had a year and a half now to present the anti-Trump and have failed, which means that person will likely not appear. But the rush towards the fringes and extremists like Bernie Sanders is a huge mistake.

    If it comes to Bernie and Trump and a gun to my head I think I would vote to Trump. I can't vote for either in good conscious.

    I know these guys aren't on the national scene but I actually think a guy like Jim Matheson or Jon Huntsman would fit that bill well and would destroy a guy like Trump.

    An honest and ethical moderate would be the perfect salve for the Trump chafe we are all experiencing. They'd never make it out of primaries.


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  28. #1168
    Quote Originally Posted by jrj84105 View Post
    After midterms. If the Dems win, Congress need to broker a 2 year peace that includes removing Trump and “encouraging” Pence to step aside after placing a mutually acceptable “never trumper” in the line of succession. Two years of bipartisan law-and-order governance from the center while trust in the system is restored.

    Maybe Romney gets to be president after all.
    Why remove Pence? You want an unelected person decided by Congress to be the president? That would take some significant changes to the constitution for that to happen.


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  29. #1169
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    I actually think they are all off the mark. The silent majority still exists and is probably bigger than ever. But this group is largely moderate.

    The Democrats have had a year and a half now to present the anti-Trump and have failed, which means that person will likely not appear. But the rush towards the fringes and extremists like Bernie Sanders is a huge mistake.

    If it comes to Bernie and Trump and a gun to my head I think I would vote to Trump. I can't vote for either in good conscious.

    I know these guys aren't on the national scene but I actually think a guy like Jim Matheson or Jon Huntsman would fit that bill well and would destroy a guy like Trump.

    An honest and ethical moderate would be the perfect salve for the Trump chafe we are all experiencing. They'd never make it out of primaries.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    The Democrats need a Romney, but a Democrat.

    Is there such a mythical creature?

    Avanetti?

    I do like Huntsman.

  30. #1170
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    If it comes to Bernie and Trump and a gun to my head I think I would vote to Trump. I can't vote for either in good conscious.
    This is the worst opinion you have. Bernie tops Trump in every way, and it's not close.

    Also, you can always vote for Alex Smith like me.

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